@@joneseymakes You should totally make the Trent pinion mill! Im about halfway through the kit and its been a blast so far, milling dovetails is surprisingly fun! Unfortunately there doesnt seem to be very many people online who have also made the mill
I found that induction hardening was better for small pieces, I've done quite a few broaches and cutters. Induction hardening is more controllable than oxy-acetylene, it served me well for 50 years. Good post, thank you.
Прекрасная работа.Как человек который уже почти два десятка лет работает на токарных станках и делает детали от нескольких миллиметров в диаметре до нескольких метров,не всегда с удовольствием смотрю видео современных энтузиастов,хоть многие и молодцы .Вы очень правильно монтируете свой материал.Вроде долгое видео но смотрится легко.Постоянно в кадре что-то происходит, объяснения короткие но четкие,ошибки не скрываются.Рабочий процесс освещён очень красиво.Единственное что расстраивает это колличество подписчиков на канале.Вот не могу понять как формируется аудитория в данном сегменте Ютуба.Твоя работа достойна большего.Я думаю у тебя все впереди.
Hi Jones, great vid as always. One thing I did want to say is that you looked as though you were struggling to keep the cutters in spec. I get that it's maybe not critical for an Allen hole, but some parts do require tight tolerance in features which can only be broached, so developing a higher-precision process for your broaching cutters might be important one day. My two cents is that you probably would've been better off hardening the cutters *before* final grinding them on the D-Bit grinder. That would've made heat treatment a lot easier in general, because having more material on the part for heat treat would've helped to minimise warping, and grinding in the profile afterwards would've saved you all that grief with the oxidation on the 3mm cutter. On top of making the heat treat easier, having the grind be the last operation would leave a brighter surface finish on the final tool by removing all the scale, and would give you some wiggle room to measure and correct for any axial warpage before the cutting faces are ground. Correcting for that warpage before chucking in the grinder would have ensured proper geometry and thus kept everything in spec. Additionally, hardened steel does not raise nearly as much of a burr during grinding as annealed steel does, so hardened tools are typically usable immediately off of the grinder with no honing required (provided that your final grinding passes use a shallow enough DOG). Of course, the downside to grinding last is that once hardened, keeping the tool cool during grinding becomes important, so as not to lose hardness. But being conservative with your grinding passes (especially towards the end) and dipping the tool in water often is the only real trick there, it's not rocket science. If you're going to form the cutters by grinding them and not by machining them, you may as well do so once they're hardened, any grinder can handle hardened steel with no problem. Hope this helps, anyway!
Hi James, thanks for the advice. Yes I agree grinding after hardening would be a better approach. Others have suggested using HSS for the toolbits, which would mean I don't have to harden them at all!
Also, when doing the actual quench once in the bath don’t lift up and down so far as to be out of the bath entirely, stir in figure 8 while keeping the whole part submerged. Reason being the part nearest the grippers spends the least amount of time in the bath, while the tip opposite the grippers spends the most amount of time in the bath. This difference in time spent in the bath, along the length of the part, can lead to distortion in the radial direction, possibly why the cutters didn’t fit after quenching. Keeping the workpiece fully submerged, but moving, means the whole piece receives the same cooling, and keeping it moving means any bubbles that might develop on the workpiece surface will be dislodged, again ensuring even cooling. I think that’s how we were instructed to do heat treatment at school, it’s been a while though. Best of luck 👍
Nice video and presentation. Next time spindle alignment with predrilled bolt hole, do remember this. Find an edge finder with a cone nose. Chuck it up, aim and dip cone into the predrilled hole. Watch the imperfection show up at the lips of the slip clutch. Sight align the lips until they are closed all around, then finger nail test lips for perfection. For sanity check : keep the set up as is to rotate the spindle by hand one quarter turn at a time to see if any deviation. Deviation account for that is accumulated from sum round out of the spindle+Chuck+collet+finder. Once you have success with it you may find it indispensable. Hope this helps.
Classic demonstration of the versatility of a full range of change gears over the gearbox where the gearbox manufacturer chooses what your options are. The reality is most people happily trade versatility for convenience with limitations, and never attempt anything outside the "usual".
The only way I know of to distinguish between unmarked water & oil hardening drill rod is doing a spark test against a known example, but that still leaves things up to interpretation. I noticed there was some markings on one of the broach blanks shown you could try running the numbers on it. Turned out great!👍👍 Project turned out great
Nice work as always! Regarding heat treat, a slower quench, and coller quench temperature is usually better for the steel as long as you still reach full hardness, it also gives you the best chance of avoiding warps and cracks. Also you can use a borax slurry, or even just a thick oil or white paint to prevent decarb and make sure your nice accurate machined surfaces harden properly and stay nice. Adding a heat sink can help you get a consistent temperature before quenching, and tempering. Something like a dish of brass swarf heated underneath for tempering, or heating the part between fire bricks with your torch so you don't have to keep the hottest part of the flame directly on the work too long.
Fantastic work as always, Nick. I really appreciate that you show the things that didn't go exactly to plan, as well as how you tackle said issues too. Adds a lot of "relatability" to the project. By the way, Brandon of Inheritance Machining did one of these some time ago too, in case you haven't seen it. He also did a great explanation of how the tool actually works, worth checking out.
Great video, it's always fun to see multiple people do the same project and pick out the differences :) I also think your camera work and production in general is great. Do you have any tips on how you learned that stuff? I'd love to try making some youtube videos but I honestly just don't even know where to start!
@@joneseymakes Instead of making a spherical dish, I faced off a cone in the face with the compound set at 4° and I'm confident it reduced cutting forces relative to the flat broaches I made.
Heat treatment: you had them babies at a hot orange/yellow (too hot) you want to keep that deep red color and back off when it starts to turn orange, but yellow is bright hot and it’s too late. If you have access to mapp gas that’s what I would recommend, or just dial down the heat on the oxy/act. Best of luck mate. Great video as always. Enjoyed the show ! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Yes, if using OA a carburizing flame is desired. An oxidizing flame will burn up the workpiece metal, a neutral flame is a bit iffy, but a carburizing flame will only deposit excess carbon on the surface- beneficial for case hardening. 👍
Agree with you,Jason. I was also thinking I would simply be using a propane or mapp gas torch for heating small parts such as these broaches. It will provide sufficient heat but allow greater controllability over the temperature than Oxy-acetylene will.
This is on my list to do, even got it in my basket haha. Wonderful to see this video, thanks for making this, it might give me the confidence to pull the trigger and buy the kit.
Excellent video Jonesey. Very well explained and filmed. I think others are right in recommending HSS blanks. I guess this tool would be used mostly on steel anyway. Hemingway should supply HSS in the first place. Cheers Nobby
Nicely done once again sir! Even though I understand how they cut, rotary broaches are still some kind of black magic to me. I always expect to see a twisted hexagonal hole... But no, your sorcery made it work! P.s. I'd love to see one of your bespoke bike frame builds one day, if your willing to share that is?
Re quenching, and this is just a guess, but since W# (water) requires the faster quench of water, and O# (oil) requires the slower quench of oil. Use oil to quench if you’re unsure as a faster than ideal quench could result in cracking (a broken tool when in use), while a slower than ideal quench would only result in a lower hrc. Good video 👍
A very good summary of the build. You did a great job on the video and machining. My only gripe with the design, minor, is that the 7x11 rear bearing is difficult to osurce if you need a replacement. 7x12 is a much more common size, just have to open up that bore a bit. Re: your build specifically, I think the thrust bearing is assembled backwards, the parts that fits snug on the 10mm portion should go on first.
if u want to thread away from the chuck u need to get LH inserts & their holders and just run ur lathe in reverse for cutting then. Joe Pie did a good video on it, but I can't remember if he mentioned the LH cutting tools for RH threads when done in reverse tho..?! Good luck. I only do it like that since I got all those things - way less stressful. 😉
If you want to reduce the forces on the tool, and make cutting the broaches easier, you should grind a slight concave "cup" into the face of the broaching tool. This will effectively give you a sharper cutting edge, and keep you from brute-force pushing the material.
@@joneseymakesI'd put the broach in the lathe chuck and use a toolpost grinder with two different diameters of ' ball' end grinding bits consistent with the broach size , and with the axis of the toolpost grinder 90 degrees to the spindle axis you will get a hollow ground face on the broach. You could just have the grinder running or both spindles though I think both spindles running would give a better result.
One of my concerns with this design is that it carries load axially through the front radial bearing. I made a variant that doesn't do that, and I am happier with it. (I also created a couple other designs, including one that "floats" in use, which makes the broach length not critical, and just depends on having a lead-in chamfer.) I have had good luck so far with using propane instead of oxy to heat them (less chance of overheating) and then after quenching but before cooling down to room temperature, popping them in a 200°C toaster oven for a few hours to temper, rather than trying to draw them down to straw with a torch. I know the Hemingway kit instructions say that you don't need to dish the front. However, I found them to cut more easily with a 4° conical dish, which I do with a boring bar on the lathe. Cutting with less force means less likely to break in use. Cutting broaches a bit oversize is a good idea both for ease of fit and to give room for honing the sides down. For example, 6.05mm is a good target for a 6mm broach. For milling the broaches, get a radius end mill. That will give you a curve like the grinding wheel in the video, avoiding stress risers at a sharp transition. I used a .02" radius carbide 4-flute end mill and it worked great. Note: The sample of drill rod that ships with the kit is water-hardening. It appears to be very similar to W1 in the US. If you are in the US and want a wider variety of suppliers you can just make the hole and drill rod 5/16 instead of the 8mm drill rod that ships with the kit. However, 8mm x 28mm is a standard size, so making them 8mm means you can buy commercial broaches from Polygon or off aliexpress or wherever and just use them, if you don't like making broaches.
@@joneseymakes I have! But RUclips won't let me post links; spammers are why we can't have nice things. A search for "mcdanlj rotary broach twice" finds my write-up, which contains a link to a design meant to be made by reference to the Hemingway instructions, so it just includes information about what is different. The floating holder I was waiting for a beta tester to give me feedback on the instructions I wrote, before I publicized the design. But I don't mind giving others the information - "mcdanlj floating rotary broach" finds the Mastodon post that links to the drawings and instructions. Anyone with interest in making it can reach out to me on Mastodon or Maker Forums and I'll help get started. I don't mind responding here too, but not being able to link to useful information makes it hard to have a great conversation. 🤣
@@joneseymakes Sent! Might want to test the contact form. With my luck, I suppose all the links in it - the whole point in sending it in the first place - caused it to be treated as spam...
41:00 There is another reason to temper the tools. Without tempering they can split from the center out like a dried out log. That is because the core has a greater volume than the surface after quenching. Tempering relieves that pressure.
@@joneseymakes btw there is a short time frame that it must be done in, like immediately, as the core/surface continue to "grow" after quenching. I learned this the hard way before looking it up. Its called "quench cracking".No one ever mentions it.
The BS1407 shipped with the Hemingway kit is like US W1 drill rod and is water-quenched. It is possible at least in the US to buy O1 oil-quenched drill rod, and I have made most of my broaches from O1.
It's called a Cratex stick. www.mscdirect.co.uk/6-x-1-x-14in-coarse-rubberised-abrasive-stick-cra-68021j?queryID=3171e1701d8e471811b8057463144c50&objectID=75703&indexName=LIVE_default_products
Thank you for showing your Mill and Lathe footage in real time. Way too many other You-Tuber's speedup the footage to save time. That creates a false illusion that machining is fast and easy. Yes, it makes the video longer. But, a video that is well edited is hardly noticed if it's a little longer. Enjoyed this one, Thanks.
Hi Jonesy, great build and it works pretty well sir!. The polishing stick you use, Createc is it? I clearly don't have the spelling correct because I can't find any on eBay lol. I would appreciate it if you would let me know. For hardening silver steel, here in the UK I've never come across any silver steel that is not water hardening. Oil hardening Drill Rod seems to be an American thing. I've come across both types in the states but never over here. But you can't say never on eBay specials lol. You're lucky to have the D bit grinder, I'm going to have to be a bit more creative with a hex er32 block and a diamond cup disc on the mill to get my bits done. I'm contemplating making one but a little larger so I can make my bits from 10 dia silver steel rather than 8 as I've got enough horsepower to get bigger hexes up to 10 I hope. I might even try a solid carbide bit to see if that works. I've a broken 10 mm end mill I can try it with. I've already got a thrust bearing suitable and I probably can find some quality bearings that came from my late mother's stairlift when I stripped it out. Cheers Jonesy!
@@joneseymakesthank you! I'm in the middle of making it now, unfortunately I've had to stay with the 8 mm bit size as the bearings I'm using have only a 10 mm id.But they are a lot bigger than the Hemingway ones. The front bearing is a double row 30x14 x10 so really solid, the smaller bearing is 26x10x8. I too had a bit of trouble with the threaded locking ring which I made first to 30.5 mm but after cutting the thread in the main body it was too small so I've made it a custom to fit the body. It's turned out to be 30.9 x0.5 lol. Just about to start putting the one degree taper on the back end and was just refreshing my memory of how you went about it. Cheers!
Excellent job... please let me know how can I get this craytex stick or how should I look for it... On your previous answer about same question, this shop is out of stock, any other ideas...? Thanks.. 🙏🙏
You have a d-bit grinder. You used it to grind the tools to shape. Why didn't you make them out of HSS? I have made this tool, forget about the heat treated silver steel, they won't last at all. HSS is the way to go. The only reason this tool uses hardened silver steel is to allow for people without the grinding kit.
@@joneseymakes I was going to suggest the same thing as Mathew. HSS and even M42 cobalt HSS are available as square and round blanks in various lengths (usually 4" long)
I love these videos...👍😀 But please don't use these type of universal pliers to loosen the bolts on your milling machine 😢... Please use proper fitting tools 😀
Mate, did you really fail to pre-drill a spot for that long, thin drill? I mean, srs dude, that is just rude... That poor thing was not deserving of such foul treatment... Also, while i am generally against any and all stupid modifications of machinery, i will say this - consider finding a head locking system... My Schaublin 22 has two head positions with a dead stop, vertical and horizontal position have a provision in the ram, or what in your case would be the head carrier block, which allows you to insert a precision locating pin, which locks the head to the ram in a certain position... It need not be used as a retainer or a locking solution, but it does serve as a brilliant quick alignment system if you wanna go that route... You set the head, pull the pin when all is locked with bolts and nuts, and voila, the pin stays in the head, keeping the bore clean, but it offers you a 1 second locating method which returns the head to zero with for all intents and purposes a remarkable level of accuracy... You can even use semi-tapered pins, as those offer even more precision, lest the hole and the pin are submicron clearance, and even then, the tapers being solid contact offer more certainty of precision... Also, mein Gott, that micro stock is drivin` me nuts... 1 inch dia spindle assembly... I mean, what the hell is even that? Gib some gud bearings and some proper stock, 3 inches at least, make a nice piece that looks like a proper tool, not a dentist`s air spindle :p And that thread boring bar, or rather, the insert, looks like it will collide with the internal diameter on the bottom of the insert... It could just be an optical illusion, like push up bras or stilettos, but it sure looks real to my eye from where i`m sittin`... Best regards! Steuss
Hi Steuss, thanks for the comment and tips. Yeak I didn't spot those holes, I think I forgot! Looking back at the footage that drill was walking all over the place!
As always, great video... Hemingway Kits needs to make you their official Brand Ambassador....
Hahaha I wish! Thanks for watching!
@@joneseymakes You should totally make the Trent pinion mill! Im about halfway through the kit and its been a blast so far, milling dovetails is surprisingly fun! Unfortunately there doesnt seem to be very many people online who have also made the mill
@@martinpanev6651 Looks like an interesting kit!
Real impressive machining, your lathe setup is inspiring
Thanks, much appreciated!
I found that induction hardening was better for small pieces, I've done quite a few broaches and cutters. Induction hardening is more controllable than oxy-acetylene, it served me well for 50 years. Good post, thank you.
I'll have to see about getting an induction hardening machine! Thanks for watching.
Прекрасная работа.Как человек который уже почти два десятка лет работает на токарных станках и делает детали от нескольких миллиметров в диаметре до нескольких метров,не всегда с удовольствием смотрю видео современных энтузиастов,хоть многие и молодцы .Вы очень правильно монтируете свой материал.Вроде долгое видео но смотрится легко.Постоянно в кадре что-то происходит, объяснения короткие но четкие,ошибки не скрываются.Рабочий процесс освещён очень красиво.Единственное что расстраивает это колличество подписчиков на канале.Вот не могу понять как формируется аудитория в данном сегменте Ютуба.Твоя работа достойна большего.Я думаю у тебя все впереди.
Машинисту-любителю приятно знать, что за ним наблюдают более опытные машинисты. Спасибо большое за добрые слова, это очень приятно.
Hi Jones, great vid as always. One thing I did want to say is that you looked as though you were struggling to keep the cutters in spec. I get that it's maybe not critical for an Allen hole, but some parts do require tight tolerance in features which can only be broached, so developing a higher-precision process for your broaching cutters might be important one day.
My two cents is that you probably would've been better off hardening the cutters *before* final grinding them on the D-Bit grinder. That would've made heat treatment a lot easier in general, because having more material on the part for heat treat would've helped to minimise warping, and grinding in the profile afterwards would've saved you all that grief with the oxidation on the 3mm cutter.
On top of making the heat treat easier, having the grind be the last operation would leave a brighter surface finish on the final tool by removing all the scale, and would give you some wiggle room to measure and correct for any axial warpage before the cutting faces are ground. Correcting for that warpage before chucking in the grinder would have ensured proper geometry and thus kept everything in spec. Additionally, hardened steel does not raise nearly as much of a burr during grinding as annealed steel does, so hardened tools are typically usable immediately off of the grinder with no honing required (provided that your final grinding passes use a shallow enough DOG).
Of course, the downside to grinding last is that once hardened, keeping the tool cool during grinding becomes important, so as not to lose hardness. But being conservative with your grinding passes (especially towards the end) and dipping the tool in water often is the only real trick there, it's not rocket science. If you're going to form the cutters by grinding them and not by machining them, you may as well do so once they're hardened, any grinder can handle hardened steel with no problem.
Hope this helps, anyway!
Hi James, thanks for the advice. Yes I agree grinding after hardening would be a better approach. Others have suggested using HSS for the toolbits, which would mean I don't have to harden them at all!
Also, when doing the actual quench once in the bath don’t lift up and down so far as to be out of the bath entirely, stir in figure 8 while keeping the whole part submerged.
Reason being the part nearest the grippers spends the least amount of time in the bath, while the tip opposite the grippers spends the most amount of time in the bath. This difference in time spent in the bath, along the length of the part, can lead to distortion in the radial direction, possibly why the cutters didn’t fit after quenching.
Keeping the workpiece fully submerged, but moving, means the whole piece receives the same cooling, and keeping it moving means any bubbles that might develop on the workpiece surface will be dislodged, again ensuring even cooling.
I think that’s how we were instructed to do heat treatment at school, it’s been a while though.
Best of luck 👍
Great, thanks for the tips!
Nice video and presentation.
Next time spindle alignment with predrilled bolt hole, do remember this.
Find an edge finder with a cone nose. Chuck it up, aim and dip cone into the predrilled hole. Watch the imperfection show up at the lips of the slip clutch. Sight align the lips until they are closed all around, then finger nail test lips for perfection. For sanity check : keep the set up as is to rotate the spindle by hand one quarter turn at a time to see if any deviation. Deviation account for that is accumulated from sum round out of the spindle+Chuck+collet+finder. Once you have success with it you may find it indispensable. Hope this helps.
Great tip, thanks!
Classic demonstration of the versatility of a full range of change gears over the gearbox where the gearbox manufacturer chooses what your options are.
The reality is most people happily trade versatility for convenience with limitations, and never attempt anything outside the "usual".
Very useful tool. Thanks for the video!
You're welcome!
Fantastic build. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
The only way I know of to distinguish between unmarked water & oil hardening drill rod is doing a spark test against a known example, but that still leaves things up to interpretation. I noticed there was some markings on one of the broach blanks shown you could try running the numbers on it.
Turned out great!👍👍
Project turned out great
Great, thanks for the advice!
Great video art mate, it make for therapeutic veiwing . Informative too. Whos your director of photography, their good. 👍
Thanks. That’d be me 😎
Nice work as always! Regarding heat treat, a slower quench, and coller quench temperature is usually better for the steel as long as you still reach full hardness, it also gives you the best chance of avoiding warps and cracks. Also you can use a borax slurry, or even just a thick oil or white paint to prevent decarb and make sure your nice accurate machined surfaces harden properly and stay nice. Adding a heat sink can help you get a consistent temperature before quenching, and tempering. Something like a dish of brass swarf heated underneath for tempering, or heating the part between fire bricks with your torch so you don't have to keep the hottest part of the flame directly on the work too long.
Great advice, thanks. I'll be try to try that.
Fantastic work as always, Nick. I really appreciate that you show the things that didn't go exactly to plan, as well as how you tackle said issues too. Adds a lot of "relatability" to the project.
By the way, Brandon of Inheritance Machining did one of these some time ago too, in case you haven't seen it. He also did a great explanation of how the tool actually works, worth checking out.
Thanks, much appreciated! I expect Brandon did a better job of explaining how it works!
Very interesting. Nice work sir.
Thanks!
Good job, enjoyed the show. Thank you.
Thanks!
Cool project. I could see that being handy.
Thanks!
Great video, it's always fun to see multiple people do the same project and pick out the differences :) I also think your camera work and production in general is great. Do you have any tips on how you learned that stuff? I'd love to try making some youtube videos but I honestly just don't even know where to start!
Thanks! Honestly I learned it from watching other RUclips videos. There is loads of information out there.
You can grind the face of cutter to dish it out / make it concave to help reduce the cutting forces needed. Good compact design!
Thanks, I'll try that.
@@joneseymakes Instead of making a spherical dish, I faced off a cone in the face with the compound set at 4° and I'm confident it reduced cutting forces relative to the flat broaches I made.
@@MichaelKJohnson Thanks, sounds like it's worth a try
Heat treatment: you had them babies at a hot orange/yellow (too hot) you want to keep that deep red color and back off when it starts to turn orange, but yellow is bright hot and it’s too late. If you have access to mapp gas that’s what I would recommend, or just dial down the heat on the oxy/act.
Best of luck mate.
Great video as always. Enjoyed the show !
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks Jason, much appreciated!
Yes, if using OA a carburizing flame is desired. An oxidizing flame will burn up the workpiece metal, a neutral flame is a bit iffy, but a carburizing flame will only deposit excess carbon on the surface- beneficial for case hardening.
👍
@@matter9 Excellent, thanks!
Agree with you,Jason. I was also thinking I would simply be using a propane or mapp gas torch for heating small parts such as these broaches. It will provide sufficient heat but allow greater controllability over the temperature than Oxy-acetylene will.
@@howardosborne8647 Will do, thanks.
nicely done!
Thanks!
This is on my list to do, even got it in my basket haha. Wonderful to see this video, thanks for making this, it might give me the confidence to pull the trigger and buy the kit.
Go for it! Thanks for watching.
Excellent video Jonesey. Very well explained and filmed. I think others are right in recommending HSS blanks. I guess this tool would be used mostly on steel anyway. Hemingway should supply HSS in the first place. Cheers Nobby
Thanks Nobby, I'll try HSS in the future.
Nicely done once again sir!
Even though I understand how they cut, rotary broaches are still some kind of black magic to me. I always expect to see a twisted hexagonal hole... But no, your sorcery made it work!
P.s. I'd love to see one of your bespoke bike frame builds one day, if your willing to share that is?
Thanks! Yes, I plan to do a bike build on the channel at some point!
Brilliant video. You need to come to Aberdeenshire and try some Cullen Skink! (Smoked Haddock Soup)
Thanks!
Cullen Skink is my all time favourite, two cans in the cupboard right now!
Re quenching, and this is just a guess, but since W# (water) requires the faster quench of water, and O# (oil) requires the slower quench of oil.
Use oil to quench if you’re unsure as a faster than ideal quench could result in cracking (a broken tool when in use), while a slower than ideal quench would only result in a lower hrc.
Good video 👍
Good tip, thanks!
A very good summary of the build. You did a great job on the video and machining. My only gripe with the design, minor, is that the 7x11 rear bearing is difficult to osurce if you need a replacement. 7x12 is a much more common size, just have to open up that bore a bit. Re: your build specifically, I think the thrust bearing is assembled backwards, the parts that fits snug on the 10mm portion should go on first.
Thanks, yes I did get the bearing the wrong way round!!
if u want to thread away from the chuck u need to get LH inserts & their holders and just run ur lathe in reverse for cutting then. Joe Pie did a good video on it, but I can't remember if he mentioned the LH cutting tools for RH threads when done in reverse tho..?! Good luck. I only do it like that since I got all those things - way less stressful. 😉
Thanks! Yes I've tried it, good technique that
If you want to reduce the forces on the tool, and make cutting the broaches easier, you should grind a slight concave "cup" into the face of the broaching tool. This will effectively give you a sharper cutting edge, and keep you from brute-force pushing the material.
Thanks, just wondering how to machine or hollow grind the tip. Any thoughts?
@@joneseymakesI'd put the broach in the lathe chuck and use a toolpost grinder with two different diameters of ' ball' end grinding bits consistent with the broach size , and with the axis of the toolpost grinder 90 degrees to the spindle axis you will get a hollow ground face on the broach. You could just have the grinder running or both spindles though I think both spindles running would give a better result.
@@ianmarriott1124 Great, thanks!
One of my concerns with this design is that it carries load axially through the front radial bearing. I made a variant that doesn't do that, and I am happier with it. (I also created a couple other designs, including one that "floats" in use, which makes the broach length not critical, and just depends on having a lead-in chamfer.)
I have had good luck so far with using propane instead of oxy to heat them (less chance of overheating) and then after quenching but before cooling down to room temperature, popping them in a 200°C toaster oven for a few hours to temper, rather than trying to draw them down to straw with a torch.
I know the Hemingway kit instructions say that you don't need to dish the front. However, I found them to cut more easily with a 4° conical dish, which I do with a boring bar on the lathe. Cutting with less force means less likely to break in use.
Cutting broaches a bit oversize is a good idea both for ease of fit and to give room for honing the sides down. For example, 6.05mm is a good target for a 6mm broach.
For milling the broaches, get a radius end mill. That will give you a curve like the grinding wheel in the video, avoiding stress risers at a sharp transition. I used a .02" radius carbide 4-flute end mill and it worked great.
Note: The sample of drill rod that ships with the kit is water-hardening. It appears to be very similar to W1 in the US. If you are in the US and want a wider variety of suppliers you can just make the hole and drill rod 5/16 instead of the 8mm drill rod that ships with the kit. However, 8mm x 28mm is a standard size, so making them 8mm means you can buy commercial broaches from Polygon or off aliexpress or wherever and just use them, if you don't like making broaches.
Thanks Michael, very interesting. Have you published any of your designs? I'd be interested to see. Thanks for the tips!
@@joneseymakes I have! But RUclips won't let me post links; spammers are why we can't have nice things. A search for "mcdanlj rotary broach twice" finds my write-up, which contains a link to a design meant to be made by reference to the Hemingway instructions, so it just includes information about what is different.
The floating holder I was waiting for a beta tester to give me feedback on the instructions I wrote, before I publicized the design. But I don't mind giving others the information - "mcdanlj floating rotary broach" finds the Mastodon post that links to the drawings and instructions. Anyone with interest in making it can reach out to me on Mastodon or Maker Forums and I'll help get started.
I don't mind responding here too, but not being able to link to useful information makes it hard to have a great conversation. 🤣
@@MichaelKJohnson Hi Michael, I didn't get the message. Can you email me direct on joneseymakes@gmail.com thanks!
@@joneseymakes Sent! Might want to test the contact form. With my luck, I suppose all the links in it - the whole point in sending it in the first place - caused it to be treated as spam...
41:00 There is another reason to temper the tools. Without tempering they can split from the center out like a dried out log. That is because the core has a greater volume than the surface after quenching. Tempering relieves that pressure.
Didn't know that, thanks.
@@joneseymakes btw there is a short time frame that it must be done in, like immediately, as the core/surface continue to "grow" after quenching. I learned this the hard way before looking it up. Its called "quench cracking".No one ever mentions it.
@@joneseymakes Examples
ruclips.net/user/shortsJ4Xyv5ddLIU
@@joneseymakes A detailed explanation.
ruclips.net/video/-IsH4dsjO4w/видео.html
@@billshiff2060 Thanks Bill
drill rod is water-hardened. Great work, thanks
Thanks!
The BS1407 shipped with the Hemingway kit is like US W1 drill rod and is water-quenched. It is possible at least in the US to buy O1 oil-quenched drill rod, and I have made most of my broaches from O1.
Great video...what is the buffing stick you use looks like it works very well?
It's called a Cratex stick.
www.mscdirect.co.uk/6-x-1-x-14in-coarse-rubberised-abrasive-stick-cra-68021j?queryID=3171e1701d8e471811b8057463144c50&objectID=75703&indexName=LIVE_default_products
@@joneseymakes thanks
Thank you for showing your Mill and Lathe footage in real time. Way too many other You-Tuber's speedup the footage to save time. That creates a false illusion that machining is fast and easy. Yes, it makes the video longer. But, a video that is well edited is hardly noticed if it's a little longer. Enjoyed this one, Thanks.
Thanks for watching!
Hi Jonesy, great build and it works pretty well sir!. The polishing stick you use, Createc is it? I clearly don't have the spelling correct because I can't find any on eBay lol. I would appreciate it if you would let me know. For hardening silver steel, here in the UK I've never come across any silver steel that is not water hardening. Oil hardening Drill Rod seems to be an American thing. I've come across both types in the states but never over here. But you can't say never on eBay specials lol.
You're lucky to have the D bit grinder, I'm going to have to be a bit more creative with a hex er32 block and a diamond cup disc on the mill to get my bits done. I'm contemplating making one but a little larger so I can make my bits from 10 dia silver steel rather than 8 as I've got enough horsepower to get bigger hexes up to 10 I hope. I might even try a solid carbide bit to see if that works. I've a broken 10 mm end mill I can try it with. I've already got a thrust bearing suitable and I probably can find some quality bearings that came from my late mother's stairlift when I stripped it out. Cheers Jonesy!
Nice, I'd like to see a bigger version!! The polishing sticks are Cratex.
@@joneseymakesthank you! I'm in the middle of making it now, unfortunately I've had to stay with the 8 mm bit size as the bearings I'm using have only a 10 mm id.But they are a lot bigger than the Hemingway ones. The front bearing is a double row 30x14 x10 so really solid, the smaller bearing is 26x10x8. I too had a bit of trouble with the threaded locking ring which I made first to 30.5 mm but after cutting the thread in the main body it was too small so I've made it a custom to fit the body. It's turned out to be 30.9 x0.5 lol. Just about to start putting the one degree taper on the back end and was just refreshing my memory of how you went about it. Cheers!
Excellent job... please let me know how can I get this craytex stick or how should I look for it...
On your previous answer about same question, this shop is out of stock, any other ideas...?
Thanks.. 🙏🙏
There are lots of other options on that same website. They come in a range of sizes, shapes and grits, but all do the same thing.
@@joneseymakes thanks 🙏🙏🙏
You have a d-bit grinder. You used it to grind the tools to shape. Why didn't you make them out of HSS?
I have made this tool, forget about the heat treated silver steel, they won't last at all. HSS is the way to go.
The only reason this tool uses hardened silver steel is to allow for people without the grinding kit.
That didn't even occur to me to be honest. I'll do that with the next batch of cutters I make. Thanks.
@@joneseymakes I was going to suggest the same thing as Mathew. HSS and even M42 cobalt HSS are available as square and round blanks in various lengths (usually 4" long)
@@howardosborne8647 Great, thanks for the info!
Great build and video! But please sort that collect chuck runout 😢
Will do!
How close are you to purchasing a new lathe?
No plans right now, do you have one for sale then?
Why did you not grind a small radius into the end of the broach?
Thought I'd try it without. Will do this at some point in the future.
Where do you get your Cratex sticks from?
www.mscdirect.co.uk/6-x-1-x-14in-coarse-rubberised-abrasive-stick-cra-68021j?queryID=ef67c71b2c7f8caa3da709d8b23e9ce0&objectID=75703&indexName=LIVE_default_products
@@joneseymakes Brilliant, thank you. I did find a place that did them a couple of years ago, but at a horrific price.
I wish Hemingway kits had a North American distributor.
Yes, the shipping can get expensive I guess!
U don’t say in video but wearing tinted glasses will help with seeing the color change on the parts ur heating.
Ok thanks, I always use glasses when using the torch so not noticed the difference.
I love these videos...👍😀
But please don't use these type of universal pliers to loosen the bolts on your milling machine 😢...
Please use proper fitting tools 😀
Sure thing, that's just me being lazy!
Mate, did you really fail to pre-drill a spot for that long, thin drill? I mean, srs dude, that is just rude... That poor thing was not deserving of such foul treatment...
Also, while i am generally against any and all stupid modifications of machinery, i will say this - consider finding a head locking system... My Schaublin 22 has two head positions with a dead stop, vertical and horizontal position have a provision in the ram, or what in your case would be the head carrier block, which allows you to insert a precision locating pin, which locks the head to the ram in a certain position... It need not be used as a retainer or a locking solution, but it does serve as a brilliant quick alignment system if you wanna go that route... You set the head, pull the pin when all is locked with bolts and nuts, and voila, the pin stays in the head, keeping the bore clean, but it offers you a 1 second locating method which returns the head to zero with for all intents and purposes a remarkable level of accuracy... You can even use semi-tapered pins, as those offer even more precision, lest the hole and the pin are submicron clearance, and even then, the tapers being solid contact offer more certainty of precision...
Also, mein Gott, that micro stock is drivin` me nuts... 1 inch dia spindle assembly... I mean, what the hell is even that? Gib some gud bearings and some proper stock, 3 inches at least, make a nice piece that looks like a proper tool, not a dentist`s air spindle :p
And that thread boring bar, or rather, the insert, looks like it will collide with the internal diameter on the bottom of the insert... It could just be an optical illusion, like push up bras or stilettos, but it sure looks real to my eye from where i`m sittin`...
Best regards!
Steuss
Hi Steuss, thanks for the comment and tips. Yeak I didn't spot those holes, I think I forgot! Looking back at the footage that drill was walking all over the place!