I feel like a really key part of these age gap romances is that they never act like one of them is years older. Sure they're more experienced, more skilled, more powerful - but fundamentally lack the things that typically define an age gap relationship in the real world. None of these men have ex wives, none of them have children of the love interest's age, none of them act like fathers (literally or figuratively) in the way that they teach. These dynamics are always set up as romantic off of the bat. It'd be super jarring if one of these men started off with a father dynamic with these women and then it evolved into romance- and that's a point. These men are not designed to be older literally, they are designed to be more older figuratively. None of them sit around grumbling like an older man in his 80s - they all embody the traits of a man in his late 20s to mid 30s that is appealing to these women. If you read the way someone in a real-world age gap interacts with their love interest vs a fantasy-world age gap, it's totally different. There's a different appeal there. They're fundamentally different dynamics. That's why these men all look the same age (or only slightly older) than their love interests. They're young people with a few zeroes slapped onto their age to make them more skilled or more knowledgeable, rather than to change the way they interact with the world.
This actually bothered me when I read ACOTAR, because the whole time I kept thinking, why the hell are these centuries-old Fae dudes so into this random teenage girl? I know that's part of the appeal, but I couldn't get into it because my brain just refused to logically accept it, lol
Yes, this exactly. Edward Cullen never felt “old”. He was as jealous as a regular teenage boy, went head to head with another 17 year old boy. He went to high school for f’s sake - no 117 year old would do that. Going to Harvard multiple times in a lifetime - maybe. But not high school. Also I think it’s a protective element. As a young woman you feel unsafe a lot of the time. And the idea of an extremely strong man bending the world for you and always being there for you is super comforting. That’s why I was so into Edward as a 15 year old.
I would love a book where a 19 year old becomes step mom for the shadow daddy's millenias or even centuries of children and grandchildren and how it would feel. And also I want the shadow daddy to occasionally be grumpy at how things were better 200 years ago
@@Dachusblot 😅 Just think about how much OLDER the actually old fae likely are than these ones-like, imagine how much older the thousand yr old fae dude's parents are or were when they first had these guys. Are their parents like a thousand yrs old or older? A few hundred years old compared to a couple thousand yrs old or older is basically nothing. Comparatively, within their own society, they likely are viewed more on par with how the human character is viewed in human society.
If Hua Cheng can be considered a shadow daddy, then his love interest is older than him ( I hope I saw your profil pic right and you know what i'm talking about 😅)
@@SashaS-s2z the first one is a beauty and the beast retelling (because those were incredibly popular when they first came out) but the second one isn't a retelling of anything
Personally I think the lack of aversion to these massive age gaps stems from the fact that these super old guys are written as though they're also 20. I'd say that if you had a character that's 2000 year old, looked it, and acted like a 2000 year old, people would have a bigger issue.
Even if he didn't look like it, I don't think any of these characters ever act their age. They're just cooler and more comfortable and confident in themselves than the typical young person who's yet to figure themselves out
Would you act your age, if you literally weren’t that age? If you were eternally young, would you not still act it? Only thing that would maybe logically be different; would be their values. But even that would change as the times did if they were awake for said gradual changes.
@@bannedmann4469 But you *are* that age, just not physically. You have still lived through all those experiences, and have gained a lot of wisdom from it. Having bad knees and grey hair doesn't make you a sage
Imagine being alive since before the Roman Empire. Imagine enduring for century after century, watching the grandchildren of everyone who have ever known and loved growing old and dying while you alone remain. Imagine watching entire civilisations rise and fall, seeing so much knowledge gained and then forgotten, humanity repeating its mistakes over and over. Would you really think an eighteen year old fresh out of high school could be your soulmate?
@@TheRoleplayer40k The maturity difference between a freshly 18 year old (you know the author would make her younger if it was legal let’s be honest) and a multi-thousand year old guy (btw the human brain fully develops around 25)
Pretty sure that's half the reason why the shortcut of "fated mates" exists as a trope. None of that pesky logical stuff matters when DESTINY and MAGIC are telling them that they're in love and meant to be together.
Part of why I enjoyed A Discovery of Witches was because the female main character is in her 30s and has a full life and identity before she meets her much older vampire love interest. It gives the romance more depth because they are both grown adults with their own interests and careers.
@@moodyqueen haven’t read this books but see I like when it’s done like this instead of the virginal 18 years old. It gives the characters an even playing field.
I only watched the series and actually liked this aspect. However, the romance developed quite closely to what we expect in these kinds of Vampire novels. Not to mention that the wold-building gets really lackluster and reductive, with the MC hoarding more powers and special unique abilities that are also very incredibly common Chosen One stories. Which I don't like in my protagonists whether they're Young Farm Boys or Not-Like-Other-Girls Generic Girls.
Except everyone not into lolis will point out how creepy the loli thing is. No one who isn't into it looks at as normal, everyone realizes it's fantasy pdf stuff. I'm not against the concept as long as there is no romance, ie a young looking very old character. But creepy guys are into it so they can have their creepy fantasies be justified. Everyone gets it's creepy. Women get offended when you point out Edward was an old man in Twilight because they think you're attacking women in general, and not just pointing out what is kind of a weird aspect of the vampire romance series.
@@Brush4000 well yes, what really matters in visual media is how old a character looks. Edward looks 17...ish, so it's all good. The succubus looks 12, so it's messed up. When the truth is that it's both messed up, just for slightly different reasons. Of course when we're talking Twilight, the irony is that that story also had the whole Jacob and Renesmee debacle, where people were rightfully upset because she looked like a child (and had the age of a toddler). Again, looks dictate what's perceived as wrong, not cold hard numbers. I don't think it has much to do with the gender of the shipping person though.
my theory is that readers are attracted to shadow daddies because it is expected for the darkest, most evil character to have a "change of heart" or even just a sweet spot and fall for a female love interest that usually resembles the average girl. They wouldn't be as attractive if the archetype wouldn't generally fall in love with the good girl. It's literally "I can fix him" extreme edition
Just to give one example... for me, what appealed about Darklina was the way that in the first book he challenges her to confront her prejudices and consider the fact that he might not actually be a bad person just because the regular humans of the world have certain prejudicial biases against darkness in general and/or things that are 'other' or 'different' than themselves and such(the possibility that he might not have actually even needed fixing at all). Of course, it turned out in the end everybody's prejudices were actually completely justifed and well-earned, but that didn't change the potential appeal of the "but what if they hadn't been though" of it all. But then there entered a new potential appeal, which was confronting her own inner darkness or worst self, and struggling to understand whether or not she in his shoes would actually be less willing to cross the same lines as he had and/or whether or not her ability to like and be attracted to him somehow meant she was as bad as him or not. In zero situation was the potentiality of "she-can-fix-him extreme edition" actually it at all, at least not for me. But I'm sure different readers have different reasons for liking the same things.
@@annakwiatek-kucharska9858 Not necessarily viable, just preferable over the even-worse alternative? Settling for survival because truly thriving seems impossibly unattainable. But then there is also the more super fantastical catharsis side of things where, even if something isn't actually likely or probable if even possible at all in reality, even the unlikely and improbable or outright impossible can still happen in fiction.
23:18 I think the thing with the fantasy age gap is that it always feels similar to a, “I can fix him,” mixed with some, “soulmate,” mentality. Like these dudes have been alive and sexy for centuries and suddenly some adult child comes along and, “she’s the one.” Like if anyone pulled this with a real person with an age gap of twenty or thirty years, it would be incredibly alarming. There’s power imbalances of multiple kinds, often simultaneously: mentor-student imbalance, authority imbalance, age imbalance, etc. All of these characters also don’t act their age half of the time? Like I know in the ACOTAR series that most of the men are constantly thrown off or upset by what is the equivalent of a literal toddler to their species and culture. That’s somehow romantic or attractive? Why do you want a man who is 300+ years old and loses his mind publicly because you made a high school level insult at him? Idk I think all of it is so far out in the realm of wish-fulfillment fantasy that if you brought any of it out of the fantasy genre vacuum into reality it would have more holes than a worm-ridden apple.
Well, that‘s Harry Potter for a proof. Not with the age gap of course, but pure wish fulfillment fantasy. It even has an „I can fix him“ fantasy in it with the whole Ginny and Harry love story.
I noticed there’s a growing desire for more FMC to be older than barely in their 20s because she can be more relatable. An older FMC can still be good looking, sexy, smart, and now they have some experience that match with the hot Fae MMC. The banter of them would be so funny and gives the hot man a run for his money.
Yeah, but those kind of romances started out in the young adult Genre, so it's not surprising that the formula calls for a lead in that age range. Now, adult women read it too, and want their Age range represented.
@@i.b.640 I think paranormal romances were already a thing before YA became a genre. That said, I have the feeling that EVERYTHING is YA nowadays and fantasy romance for adults is barely written anymore. I have just recently tried to find a good fantasy- or sci-fi romance and was not successful. Even the few adult romances have so many tropes that I am fed up with...
@@johannageisel5390 Paranormal romances were, absolutly. I was specifically talking about that kind of structure (I am just a normal girl who - it turns out - is something so special and has POWERS etc) and tropes. Sorry for not making that clearer.
Id like to commend Christopher Paolini for reversing the dynamic where Eragon, the teenager, pines after the ancient elf Aria but instead of succumbing to the trope she not only doesnt court him but even rejects him to the very end. Very refreshing to see a story that subverts this trope
Realistic depiction honestly, life experience is way more important in romantic attraction than people think about. Or they just get it confused with physical attraction, that might be more likely
Does it really subvert it, or reinforce it because the genders are flipped? Older women younger man isn't really a popular trope inside or outside literature.
The reason romances so often center on girls 18 to 22 is the same reason for the farm boy trope, they are empty vessels. In both cases, they are old enough to be interesting, but not yet old enough to be broken (obvious exceptions excluded). These are stories about people just on the cusp of becoming themselves. As such, they are easier to identify with and easier to imagine a future for. I'll try for a more fulsome answer elsewhere, but that's the gist of it.
I also think it’s made to appeal/not deter younger readers. I really don’t think most 30, even 40 yo women feel like they have stopped being on the cusp of something new though.
My theory is that a lot of romantasy readers are fairly young women and are thus far better able to "relate" to younger main characters (just from a writer's and publishers point of view) . And these enormous age gaps are just so ungraspable that it doesn't even seem like an agegap anymore. Like you said it is impossible to translate to real-life. On the other hand an agegap from like 19/20 to anywhere between 70-normal human age is still pretty graspable and can thus translate to reality.
Elisabeth Wheatley talked about the age gap thing on her channel (the video is titled "Why are Age Gap Romantasy Books so Popular?") and she put forward the theory that women authors write female characters getting into relationships with ancient, supernatural men because the majority of men they interact with these days tend to be so immature and incompetent at important things like relationships and parenthood that the thought process is something like "well, if he's still acting like this into his adulthood, maybe someone with hundreds of years of life experience would actually know how to treat me decently, and I wouldn't have to baby him and raise him to get him to grow up." I don't know how much I believe in this theory, but with the rise of the incel "movement" and pickup artistry in the last two decades I do think that this mindset of women being responsible for fixing men's emotional problems and immaturity is a contributing factor.
So women's version of alpha podcasts saying stuff like "if you want a good woman you'd have to be born a century ago" is romantasy books......... that's hilarious lmfao
My personal theory is that American writers that use this trope belong to puritan and evangelical churches and for them it's normal and desirable for men in their 40s and 50s to marry women 18 and 19 years old (and historically they married 14 year old girls).
My thoughts on the age gap thing are that we think of these men as having developed (not aged) somewhat proportionally to the other characters. They're immortal (sometimes), but their behavior is stuck at 20-30ish, similarly to Edward being stuck at 17 in Twilight. They might be hundreds of years old, but they don't show it in any other way than maybe recounting some far-off past event or in a damatric monologue about how tough it is to watch loved ones age and die, etc. Also, they're conventionally attractive and not wrinkly old men. They 'match' a regular couple appearance wise.
@@deniseperez7007 The power fantasy? I'm talking about behavior here, not lived experience. Also, isn't it just peak wish fulfilment that a century old being chooses YOU out of the thousands he's encountered over the years? Usually, the 'shadow daddy' has in some way sworn off relationships and his cold, cold heart is defroszed by the protagonist. Also also, old people funny. The contrast between archaic male lead and modern female lead can be played for laughs or genuinely add something to the story since their world views naturally contrast. It's everything an age gap relationship has to offer without any of the 'ickiness' that I think we associated with seeing a visibly aged man and a younger woman. A grey area of power imbalance.
@acjnaihbdj isn’t the old people funny and archaic men kind of contradictory argument? I’m not against age gap tropes tho I just like them when done right.
@@deniseperez7007 "why write them older" - because it's not really about their age, it's about the fact that they are something other than or outside of / beyond a normal human life/reality, and sometimes if they've only lived the same number of decades as the human character has then they aren't quite 'removed' or 'other' enough to symbolize a truly fantastical step/escape into the implausible or unreal. Sometimes it's not really about about imagining what if something was real, sometimes it's as much or more about imagining something that can/will never be real. But also the thing that does or doesn't appeal about it absolutely can and does differ/vary quite a lot from one individual who likes that thing to another-like one person might like it for one reason, while another person likes it for a completely different reason entirely. And this is a part of why generalizations can be so questionable.
My personal two cents on the age gap romance (and granted, I've only read 'Addie La Rue', 'Shadow and Bone', 'Belladonna' and 'The Serpent and the Wings of Night'), is that I expect the immortal being to have transcended base human urges like love and lust. I feel like they'd be so old that they'd forgotten the human element of romance and getting with the young FMC romantically isn't a priority to them at first, until they start to bond with them and then, they fall in love. And because they're so far removed from the human experience, there aren't any gross hang-ups about her being super young, or worrying about a body count, or wanting to dominate or control her, because it's almost as though they're falling in love for the first time (or at least the first time in hundreds of years). Which in my opinion, is a bit more acceptable than purely wanting to date a woman because she's so much younger than you.
Belladonna weirded me out with death knowing her from when she was a baby into adulthood - and then started a relationship with her? Like maybe i read it wrong or smthn because i haven’t heard much about it
I think you hit the nail on the head. In Jane Eyre, Mr. Rochester (the love interest) is over 20 years older than our 18 year old protagonist and is her manager basically. He has a child and is getting married to another woman at the beginning/middle of the book. As a result, many see him as weird and creepy today, not to mention hes described as not conventionally attractive. However these shadow daddies dont have any of the “drawbacks” and realistic life effects of getting older: no children, no wives, etc.
after reading the whole Delicious in Dungeon manga, i think the way Ryoko Kui handles vast differences in lifespan and age would make for a good world to explore this type of relationship in more detail, though there's not really any explicit romance in the manga. In the Adventurer's Bible (extra book of bonus comics and worldbuilding stuff), there's a bonus comic about one of the elves who's 137, but in terms of life stage/maturity she's equivalent to like a 27 year old. She has a reputation for dating a lot of half-foot women (their lifespan is abt 50, and she dates women btwn 20-30 which is like 30-50 year old humans). The elves view her as being creepy because they see all short-lived races as children (tbh she kinda is just the lesbian leonardo dicaprio), but from the perspective of the half-foot women she dates they feel like cougars dating an immature 20-something with a superiority complex who ditches them once they get closer to old age. People in the fandom also have some pretty interesting conversations about ethics with shipping, particularly btwn Marcille's parents who met when her tall-man dad was a teen but her elf mother was old enough to have lived through the history he was studying, Chilchuck and Senshi, and Kabru and Mithrun. 2 characters could look around the same age but one of them is much further along in their lifespan, while another 2, like Chilchuck and Senshi, could look very far apart in age even though they're both middle-aged. with fantasy age gaps i just think it's disappointing that the complications of it aren't usually explored in more detail! like id be interested in reading about a middle-aged or older character and a 100s of years old character that looks much younger, and the complicated issues that would go along with that, rather than just romanticizing the power difference btwn a 17 yr old and 500 yr old.
@@ceycey6037 she was barely introduced in the first season of the anime, so you would only know her from her looks i think, but it's otta from the canaries, she's elf equivalent of a butch lmao
Just another Ryoko Kui W. She’s a very based fantasy author of 21st century tbh. Her worldbuilding is impeccable and really comes from real love if fantasy unlike all these romantasy and their Rhysand knock-offs
@@user-ny1wo1vp9r In the case of Jane Eyre, it actually is about equality, but many books from the 18th and 19th century have similar concerns, but due to classism. It was seen as imprudent to marry outside of your class, especially down, for women, because they had a fall in status, for men, because how would his wife teach the children their values or be a good hostess. In pride and predjudice, Lizzy Bennet reminds Lady Catherine - and the reader - that though lacking in funds, she IS a gentleman's daughter and as such equal to Darcy. In the novel "Pamela" the 15 Year old heroine is a servant who has to constantly fend of se*ual assault by her employer/master - which impresses him so much (not her strong will, mind you, but her virtue and virginity) that he falls in love with her and marries her. It was a scandal, not for all that r*pey stuff, but because people were afraid it would cause girls to look above their station for marriage.
12:48 Yeah, I saw a video of someone saying that women like ancient male love interests because they've already matured and figured their stuff out, meaning that the FMC doesn't need to do it for them. But that is NOT true. Most of the shadow daddies are incredibly immature and childish. It's purely about a powerful dom fantasy. He acts like he's 14 but with more frick frack experience and a couple hundred years of deleting his enemies from existence and becoming super poweful and infamous.
My theory is that it's not so much a fantasy about power/age imbalance, as it is a I'm-not-like-other-girls fantasy. "See, this incredible, super old and intelligent creature finds ME, a 17 year old girl, worthy of his affection? I must surely be SO SMART beautiful and mature, not to forget powerful myself because I have some control over this person too, to be able to do that!" ☺ Plus, when you're 17 and think you're secretly the best/smartest/most mature/definitely fully developed in every way, I also don't think you can even conceive of the actual differences in maturity between yourself and someone even just 10 years older. So long as they're still hot, age is _literally_ just a number in their world! 😏It's sooo much easier to look back at your teenage self as 30 something and see your immaturity, but when you're there, you just cant grasp it. That's my hot take!
Thisssss, this is so true and such a good point! I really think it's often less about the power dynamic being hot and more about what it means that an super powerful immortal man is completely bewitched by a girl with little to no real life experience (it means she's SPECIAL even though she doesn't try to be and because these heroines are often bland characters that allow the reader to self insert, it means that I, the reader, am special).
Oh I can see that being a part of it yeah (definitely feels a bit true to me and to my shame I was very much a "not like other girls" girl lol). However, these teens aren't writing the books - the fanfic sure but not the published books. But I guess authors write what's popular + some of them might've been like me, a "not like other girls" girl except they grew up to become published writers :D
21:27 I also think you sometimes forget how „old“ those people are because they look like mid twenties and normally (my opinion) don’t behave like a regular old guy. In the story they feel younger which makes me forget that they are this old.
There’s also something to be said for the classic ‘dark brooding warrior battling to find the light’ x ‘light pure girliepop learning to accept her darkness’ romance model which particularly hits
It wasn't until the last example you gave that it finally hit me, but now I can't un-realise it: the shadow daddy x barely legal young woman trope is really just a rehash of the Death and the Maiden motif. It's 5 CENTURIES OLD! There really is nothing new under the sun.
"I would like to see a romance between two shadow daddies" Yes! Me too! It is impossible that such a thing does not exist. But I didn't find anything similar 😢
A creepy addition to the list: In Kane Chronicles by Rick Riordan, Sadie Kane is like 14 (I think, I read it a while ago) and her love interest is Anubis, the Egyptian god of death.
To be completely honest, it's probably less about them being super old and more about them being essentially personified concepts in some sense timeless and/or existing comparatively outside of reality or beyond the passing of the ages versus humans stuck in the trenches with a ticking a clock all coming into this world and leaving it in the same exact way and this love interest in some small way or another representing a possibility of maybe taking and elevating or removing that human character from it too right along with them. Mythological gods, much like supernatural and/or magical creatures like vampires or fae, can often enough theoretically transform the human character into something else/other/more than the humans was to begin with at very least metaphorically or thematically or such if not even outright literally.
I have also read them and while he is a love interest, he is technically not the final one. Walt is the one that she ends up with, but she technically ends up with both of them because Walt ends up becoming his avatar or something like that. Because without him, Walt is dying Also, this is a bit irrelevant, but really? Walt? Use your full name man, Walter sounds so much better
I read this one book where a 13-year-old gets impregnated by the literal god of everything. It was so weird but somehow there's a fan club billions strong and in a few weeks, much of the world gets a holiday to celebrate that 13-year-old giving birth.
Why I think these books don’t feel like an age gap is because the immortal characters are described to look and act like a young adult. The age in these stories is not what create the power dynamic between main characters, it’s simply the fact that he is immortal and has very powerful magic, besides that, he acts like he is the same age as the main character a lot of the time.
Didnt finish the video yet but! just wanted to thank you for caring about including non ai generated art to represent the characters you're talking about 🩷 as an illustrator it warms my heart :) (also your voice is so soothing i love watching your videos to unwind ☆)
I love how in most media, darkness powers are associated with the bad boy character, but in Chainsaw Man, the Darkness Devil is literally an unspeaking eldritch being
I hate that they are called shadow "daddies". Look at them! That's not how someone who is as old as your father looks like! They all look like boys! "Shadow boyfriends". Real shadow daddies are those of the type of Emmerich Volkarin. Anyway, great vid as always and looking forward to the next one!
I think what makes these huge fantasy age gaps so popular is that they’re basically a whole wish fulfilment cocktail with the added bonus that its impossible nature allows emotional distance for the reader (vs. big age gaps that could happen irl and would automatically bring bad associations with them). Depending on the story any of the following can be part of the fantasy: - financial/material security, abundance of resources (a centuries old guy had enough time to gain riches) - the great power together with “she’s the one” the super powerful guy gets soft for: safety/protection with a side note of possessiveness, optional: she also “fixes him”. But I really think what makes these extreme power imbalance fantasies so popular is that they’re fundamentally more about the protection (he can keep her safe from even the most extreme threats and repeatedly chooses to do so, he chooses to use his power he could use against her to protect her instead, in more extreme cases he technically has all that power but will submit his will and actions to her, so she ultimately calls the shots-ultimately it’s a power fantasy where he gets tamed by his love for her) - he managed to live ages without her/by himself, aka he doesn’t need to get babied or taught to be a functional adult (in stark contrast with many guys in the real world), but once they meet he can’t live without her anymore (the fantasy of being outstanding, one of a kind, and having someone notice & appreciate that) - generally the mystery of a brooding moody guy and the challenge of winning him over (and earning his devotion with that) - the young FMC as self insert for the reader & the emotional safety of getting invested in a fictional love interest that cannot exist in reality (yearning for something that’s possible/within grasp can make us feel too vulnerable, in contrast yearning for something impossible is safe while still letting us enjoy the experience of yearning) I really think those kinds of romance stories are all about fantastical escapism, where yes he technically has power over her, but him not (really) using said power against her is in many cases the whole point of the fantasy.
He’s morphed into one over time, but the original Dracula was portrayed as being both creepy and visually unappealing. Sexy Drac is actually pretty modern, and I bet you could find an example of a “sexy supernatural man” written long before him. Not a bad guess at all, though!
22:14 late teen male here, and many guys, myself included, absolutely find older women attractive, and its especially for the same reason some people find older men attractive, they’re more experienced, likely to be wealthier, etc
In our teens specifically there's also the fact that younger girls are like a fair bit less mature. Like, I couldn't ever date someone more than two years younger than me, heck even 2 years younger feels weird, that's my little brother's age! But maybe in my mid to late twenties it'll be less of an issue.
@@Pandora_The_Pandait's true, when you're a teenager two years is a long time. Heck, even six months is long! Lol but once you reach late teens, like 18ish, dating a 20yo isn't a problem.
I think the loophole these immortal characters exploit is that they are immortally 20-30. They are never in the life stage of a 50 yr old. So the fact that they are in the same life stage (looking to settle down, pre kids) makes it less weird for many of us who aren't really into realistic age gap stories. It's an age gap but only mentally, never physically or emotionally or even philosophically.
You'll find some in Tolkien verse. Guy was obsessed with mortal man x immortal elf. There's also Galadriel and Celeborn. Though Celeborn isn't mortal, he's still way younger and they have a power difference
One of the main problems with age gaps is that there is a huge power and *experience* difference. But what I’ve noticed with shadow daddies is that they are a close age to their mortal love interest concerning their respective lifespan. If they’re 300 years old and their species is immortal, he’s implied (by his attitude and interests) to be in his species equivalent to a mortal in their 20’s or 30’s. So while there is an age gap, in relation to level of experience, the fmc and the sd share some type of mutual understanding and relation. They are still able to communicate and have real conversations. But a human 20 y/o and a human 50 y/o wouldn’t be able to have such conversations or a mutual understanding. Basically, shadow daddies (for the most part) are, relative to their species lifespan, the same age of their love interest (or a little older) making the age gap between them different and less detrimental.
This video made me reflect on other age gap relationships I read as a teen and just found out Alec was 17 when him and Magnus started dating which is… odd. I guess twilight did the same thing. Super interesting analysis! I tend to agree that once it gets to like a hundred years the age gap doesn’t feel like an actual age gap but still the underlying power imbalances underlying.
Oh I HATE Alec and Magnus!!! Magnus is SO CREEPY!! He's literally like "Clary, you're like a daughter to me" and then goes and DATES a boy A YEAR OLDER THAN HER??????? 🤮
@@Faith-Trust-Pixie-Dust The difference is that Magnus had seen Clary when she was a literal baby or smol child, versus Alec he theoretically didn't meet until Alec was already older. Also, in the books, Clary is literally like 15 yrs old-but Alec was like 18 to 19 yrs old. Clary was aged up for both the movie and the tv series.
@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 yeah.....still not ok 😅🙃 Magnus is from, what, the 1700s? And has ready access to date other immortals but chooses a teenage boy who's "technically legal" but has also never been in a relationship, while Magnus is KNOWN for being in relationships? That's weird
@Faith-Trust-Pixie-Dust Wasn't really debating if it was or wasn't okay-just pointing out why Clary vs Alec are kinda separate / not exactly comparable issues.
@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 no that's why I'm saying they are comparable issues. They're literally almost exactly the same issue, only it's MM and not MF...an immortal, significantly older man with (demonic, if we're going off canonical lore) magic powers dating a teenager...
Love your videos! As for the super age gap theory and why readers love them in these types of novels, I also think the “soulmate” idea adds a lot to it as well! It’s romantic and swoon worthy if the two characters are meant to be, and they’ve managed to find each other after centuries of “looking” or something like that.
My favorites are also the dynamic when the ancient shadow daddy is like really far removed from modern society so the love interest is like his teacher that way. Like sure he’s thousands of years old and commands legions but the concept of using a cellphone or Door Dash would rattle him😂
Your essay videos are always great topics of conversation. I think your comment of 'shadow daddys' been the fantasy version of the Paranormal trope of Vampires falling for young girls is spot on
I want to preface this by saying that I've only read Fourth Wing, ACOTAR and The Invisible Life of Addie Larue plus started watching the Shadow and Bone series (yes, because of Ben Barnes duh 😁) so I have no idea about all the others but in these ones there's definitely an element of "plausible deniability" almost? I'm not sure it's the right term but my point is that the FMC never really has the choice of whether or not she wants to associate with the shadow daddy character: she's always bound by fate or a soulmate system or kidnapped or tricked into the whole thing. Even though there's almost always another loverboy option for her, somehow she can't help being drawn to the tall dark and handsome morally grey anti-hero and this fateful bond between them is basically the excuse for the dubcon you mentioned. Being with the bad boy against her will is okay because she can't help it, it's not her fault, therefore she is not accountable for indulging in the dark desires that pull her to him and in the end she has nothing to feel guilty about. Does that make any sense? Maybe not, but if anyone has read this, I'd love to know if my rambling can be applied to the other books as well 😁
I think it's the evolution of dubcon being common in romance in general so the main girl can always have plausible deniability when it comes to romantic or sexual desires. Which unfortunately normalized SA for readers. And the bond stuff is just the slightly less icky version that's less SA but still kinda feels like magic roofies if you squint hard enough.
Off topic, but I love how Dorian from ToG has shadow magic but he was such a golden retriever, the shadows weren't there to make him look mysterious, but to show how much he's changed after his life turned upside down. Also, Manon was older(115?) and more powerful at the start. A switch in the trope that was so refreshing and still iconic. Still a shadow bf tho🤍
It's funny to me that the same people pushing this kind of literature now get crazed out to consider Victorian Era literature where the idea of a guy in his forties or fifties marrying a girl around twenty was seen as normal. Very strange but I guess, whatever floats their boat? lol. Always a pleasure, Leonie, hope your holiday season is going well!
But Argorn has an age gap where he is the younger of him and Arewin. And hes doesnt use shadow magic. But I see where your coming from. Aragon is a Daddy no if, ands, or buts lol
@@kungfubigfootmmmm Aragorn created this deep set need for men that look dark but are so good. I want a man that seems bad but has got a heart of gold and endless love.
The appeal isn’t that they’re old, it’s that they’re experienced. I don’t think that age gaps in fantasy worlds hold the same weight as ones in the real world because someone who’s 75 years old in a book is only a fraction of their mythological lifespan. The appeal is that they take longer to mature, and which means that they get to take their time in getting good at things and building experience. Cassian, Rys and Azriel are able to goof off and be stupid and have fun all while being experienced in war and combat and s*x. They get to be all of those things while still getting to enjoy being young and ‘dumb’ without the worry of losing that youthful energy. And that level of power and energy and time is appealing. It’s something we all long for in ourselves and that we find attractive
For those who are interested in any type of romance books, i highly recommend watching contrapoints video essay about twilight. It will change the way you see the romance genre.
Thanks so much for the suggestion!! Just checked out that video and i wasn’t ready for that level of deep thinking at all lol. Almost an hour in n pretty sure most of it went over my head but still what a banger
It's always been funny to me how Twilight got mercilessly raked over the coals back in its day, meanwhile ACOTAR is if anything worse and broadly unknown to the larger public.
Your outfit looks amazing! Also thank you SO MUCH for asking permission and crediting the artists; so many bookish content creators don’t; and it drives me nuts! I really enjoyed this video. I am also obsessed with Death from Belladonna; I thought it was so well done!
I love _The Lord of The Rings_ but I was shocked when I read that Arwen was over 2000 years old when she met Aragorn who was 20 years old and of top of that , they're distant cousins ... At least both of them were ADULTS when they fell in love and started their relationship !!
But the cool think is that when Arwen first met Aragorn, she dismiss his love as if it were a small boy's crush, which totally where by her perspective 😂 they only got married when Aragorn was around 80 years old
@@judyquinn8151 Beren and Luthien. About the same age difference as with Aragorn and Arwen. Tolkien's wife was several years older than him, at a time when this did matter - in his youth. Tolkien was 16 years old when they first met and fell in love and his future wife Edith was 19. Tolkien's guardian forbid him to see her or contact her until Tolkien was 21 and she 24.
Leonie, you don't know me, and I don't know you personally either. But your channel and content and videos give me so much comfort, you don't even understand. Thank you so much girl, please never stop making videos
As much as it frustrated me as a kid, I really appreciate Paolini making Arya, a several hundreds year old near immortal elf, look at Eragon, a 15 year old, and go "nope thats weird and gross and you can take your little crush elsewhere". That is the way it should be 👏👏
something i realize is that a lot of these books also fall into the category of trying to have a girlboss protagonist but the author still wants the fantasy of being saved by a man so the girlboss is just told over and over to be super strong and smart but is easily overpowered either by her love interest or for a villanous character so the man can save her, it just pisses me off why cant SHE save him after hes been kidnapped and locked in a tower by evil doers * sigh *
There was a video game I played years ago where you have the option to play as a girl and literally one of the first quests you get is to save a male character I had a massive crush on. It’s actually how he’s introduced. And let me tell you, that quest felt so dang good. It made me understand why male-oriented media has the guy saving the girl. It probably gives men the same huge rush of dopamine it gave me to do the opposite.
@kittyoverlord96 i dont think theres anything wrong with a man saving a woman but when EVERY SINGLE one of these romantasy books falls into the trope of a helpless woman that needs saving it just gets so ... boring fkwjwnxk it could work if it alternated yknow ? at some point both of them save each other to show that theyre now in equal footing (and the initial power imbalance is addressed) im not accusing you of saying the opposite of what im saying im just rambling a bit lol
You get that in Beren and Luthien. One of the reasons I love Tolkien. Though at the beginning his works sound very sexist, at the end you begin to see that they are way better than some of the modern "feminist" books
theres a book series that i remember has the girl saving the guy from the tower, in the last book. im fairly certain it has a fairly even amount of the characters saving eachother throughout the series too. it is a childrens series and based on fairy tales (think if it was percy jackson but an after school club), so theres that, but its the ever afters by shelby bach if you wanted to take a look
I have one for you: Arya and Eragon from the Eragon books. Okay, she wasn’t a shadow mommy but definitely older, more powerful, and acknowledging of her experience - so much so that she denies Eragon because of their power imbalance. But that’s an OG example to the extent that it wasn’t really starting a powerful non-shadow-mommy phenomenon, it’s just all I’ve got.
At 12:01 I thought it was more because it would possibly be a little harder to write a wiser, smarter, somewhat more-experienced female love interest because they might not or can't always be as stubborn and rash or just naive. Also, it could also probably be something about relatability, right? Easier to relate to a 17-19-year old than a 30 or 47-year old lady (for those that WANT to relate to MCs) since a lot more readers of this genre have likely been 17-19 rather than 30. Those are just my thoughts but I wouldn't know enough to say exactly :/
The new popular booktok romantasy Quicksilver could also be noted for a shadowdaddy I think as well as Lightlark. I'm surprised how much this has become a trope. I enjoy the dark and broody ML but I've never been a fan of age gaps with older men.
My favorite thing about this is that Infinity is a concept not bound by substraction, so infinity minus 19 is still just infinity (no shade at all!) I genuinely find it entertaining because it really does just make the point funnier to me. XD
Not a book, but I feel like Angel and MAYBE Spike from Buffy the Vampire Slayer fit the "shadow daddy" theme; and based on a book, but Lucifer in Lucifer also fits this trope
I don't think Spike is a shadow daddy. He's more like the OG inspiration for Draco in leather pants. Buffy doesn't have anything romantic/sexual to do with Spike until she was clearly the dominant or at least equal to him.
I attempted to read Fourth Wing on a recommendation from a friend without knowing anything about it beforehand and after I got the introduction of Xaden and it was so ridiculous and cringe I laughed and stopped reading it
A woman in my writing group is writing this exact dynamic, and it’s hilarious. It’s also hilarious that these dynamics are written by women, read by women, desired by women, but it’s still somehow described as “weird” with the not so subtle implication that it’s the man’s fault.
@kittyoverlord96 not exactly. Walt and Saide end up together, but Anubis makes Walt his avatar on earth so Walt is not dying anymore (he has a curse if I remember well), so technically she is with Walt, Anubis is just helping keep Walt alive
it's like the "step-" thing for other taboos. it isn't 100% the same morally to your brain when a supernatural element comes in. this tiny separation makes it ok to your brain even tho it changes little of the problem in dynamic
Step isn't a little change. You are literally not biologically related, so if you bang and have a kid there's no chance of it having some kind of developmental issue the way there is between actual biological family.
the first thing that came to mind when i saw the title was 'belladonna' and i've heard about that one from you hahaha (and i loved it!!!) you look soooo beautiful btw
I'm just at the beginning of the video but THANK YOU for properly referencing the artists who created the fanarts you're showing ! So few youtubers does that. It has become difficult to find good fanart that isnt AI generated, its so frustrating !
23:40 - This is A GENIUS THOUGHT - I'm definitely gonna write this down! Heck, could even go for a square-cross-over sort of thing, where the novel follows two young-woman-and-shadow-daddy pairings, and you THINK they're separate, but then they meet, and they actually decide to break up and recombine for some MLM and WLW endgame pairings! Orrr, that's a trilogy right there - two books to set up each romance with that tension of will-they-wont-they as the climax, and then the third where the four of them meet! MAN, if I had ANY ability to write plots, I'd give it a shot! I'm just horrible at plots tho ^^;
I actually really would like to read about a character with shadow powers and with hundreds of years behind while being a woman. Idk why i think it would slap so hard.
the way this description NEARLY fits one of my OCs except he has light powers and I made him into old people because he's basically a human turned immortal and I thought it would be funny
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
I feel like a really key part of these age gap romances is that they never act like one of them is years older. Sure they're more experienced, more skilled, more powerful - but fundamentally lack the things that typically define an age gap relationship in the real world. None of these men have ex wives, none of them have children of the love interest's age, none of them act like fathers (literally or figuratively) in the way that they teach. These dynamics are always set up as romantic off of the bat. It'd be super jarring if one of these men started off with a father dynamic with these women and then it evolved into romance- and that's a point.
These men are not designed to be older literally, they are designed to be more older figuratively. None of them sit around grumbling like an older man in his 80s - they all embody the traits of a man in his late 20s to mid 30s that is appealing to these women. If you read the way someone in a real-world age gap interacts with their love interest vs a fantasy-world age gap, it's totally different. There's a different appeal there. They're fundamentally different dynamics. That's why these men all look the same age (or only slightly older) than their love interests. They're young people with a few zeroes slapped onto their age to make them more skilled or more knowledgeable, rather than to change the way they interact with the world.
This.
This actually bothered me when I read ACOTAR, because the whole time I kept thinking, why the hell are these centuries-old Fae dudes so into this random teenage girl? I know that's part of the appeal, but I couldn't get into it because my brain just refused to logically accept it, lol
Yes, this exactly. Edward Cullen never felt “old”. He was as jealous as a regular teenage boy, went head to head with another 17 year old boy. He went to high school for f’s sake - no 117 year old would do that. Going to Harvard multiple times in a lifetime - maybe. But not high school.
Also I think it’s a protective element. As a young woman you feel unsafe a lot of the time. And the idea of an extremely strong man bending the world for you and always being there for you is super comforting. That’s why I was so into Edward as a 15 year old.
I would love a book where a 19 year old becomes step mom for the shadow daddy's millenias or even centuries of children and grandchildren and how it would feel. And also I want the shadow daddy to occasionally be grumpy at how things were better 200 years ago
@@Dachusblot 😅 Just think about how much OLDER the actually old fae likely are than these ones-like, imagine how much older the thousand yr old fae dude's parents are or were when they first had these guys. Are their parents like a thousand yrs old or older? A few hundred years old compared to a couple thousand yrs old or older is basically nothing. Comparatively, within their own society, they likely are viewed more on par with how the human character is viewed in human society.
This outfit screams eloquent fae librarian going on mysterious quests as soon as the sun sets😱✨️
Leonie our local faerie librarian! I love this concept
Fae librarian! 😅 So spot on! 👍
What would this outfit be called??? I don’t know what I should search on the internet
But where is it from?! The TOP!!!!
Emily Wilde?
I really want a shadow daddy who meets a love interest who's older than him
Yes
Ah yes, the light granny
If Hua Cheng can be considered a shadow daddy, then his love interest is older than him ( I hope I saw your profil pic right and you know what i'm talking about 😅)
@@VölvaEsler I got so happy when I saw you metion Hua Cheng xD I didn't look at their profil pic
@@Celioxa I wish more people on the romantasy community would read MXTX books. Her stories are so good !
The trend of Hades x Persephone retelling must contribute with this too, it's a lot like the same line of thought
Isn’t a court of mist and fury essentially a Hades Persephone retelling?
@@aberdeen0107 it claims to be a Beauty and the Beast retelling instead (dubious claim)
@@SashaS-s2z the first one is a beauty and the beast retelling (because those were incredibly popular when they first came out) but the second one isn't a retelling of anything
Acomaf Is Hades X Persephone retelling
God I hate feminist retellings of Greek myths so much... It's the laziest and sleaziest trend in recent memory.
Personally I think the lack of aversion to these massive age gaps stems from the fact that these super old guys are written as though they're also 20. I'd say that if you had a character that's 2000 year old, looked it, and acted like a 2000 year old, people would have a bigger issue.
he didn't just see witches get burned at the stake, he threw the accusations!
Even if he didn't look like it, I don't think any of these characters ever act their age. They're just cooler and more comfortable and confident in themselves than the typical young person who's yet to figure themselves out
Would you act your age, if you literally weren’t that age? If you were eternally young, would you not still act it? Only thing that would maybe logically be different; would be their values. But even that would change as the times did if they were awake for said gradual changes.
@@bannedmann4469 But you *are* that age, just not physically. You have still lived through all those experiences, and have gained a lot of wisdom from it. Having bad knees and grey hair doesn't make you a sage
@@bencered Experience doesn't mean growth or maturity. If you spend time around 50-year-olds, you discover that quickly.
this makes me want to write a shadow mommy book not gonna lie
Do so!
yeahh we need our shadow mommies!!
Now that I might actually be interested in
please do, I beg
I would read it!!!
Imagine being alive since before the Roman Empire. Imagine enduring for century after century, watching the grandchildren of everyone who have ever known and loved growing old and dying while you alone remain. Imagine watching entire civilisations rise and fall, seeing so much knowledge gained and then forgotten, humanity repeating its mistakes over and over.
Would you really think an eighteen year old fresh out of high school could be your soulmate?
Why not? The heart wants what it wants.
Don't see any reason why not, also the fantasy is that, despite all that, he IS your soul mate anyway. You're that special.
@@TheRoleplayer40k The maturity difference between a freshly 18 year old (you know the author would make her younger if it was legal let’s be honest) and a multi-thousand year old guy (btw the human brain fully develops around 25)
Pretty sure that's half the reason why the shortcut of "fated mates" exists as a trope. None of that pesky logical stuff matters when DESTINY and MAGIC are telling them that they're in love and meant to be together.
@@JDoe-gf5ozmore like the libido wants what is wants
the difference between booktok and tumblr is that tumblr would've written darkling/rhysand fanfic
so real 😌
Tumblr is based for that
Mhh toxic old man yaoi my favourite
Tbh id read that as a strong hater of both men
youre so right lmao
Part of why I enjoyed A Discovery of Witches was because the female main character is in her 30s and has a full life and identity before she meets her much older vampire love interest. It gives the romance more depth because they are both grown adults with their own interests and careers.
I haven't read that yet but you have sold it to me.
@@moodyqueen haven’t read this books but see I like when it’s done like this instead of the virginal 18 years old. It gives the characters an even playing field.
I only watched the series and actually liked this aspect.
However, the romance developed quite closely to what we expect in these kinds of Vampire novels. Not to mention that the wold-building gets really lackluster and reductive, with the MC hoarding more powers and special unique abilities that are also very incredibly common Chosen One stories. Which I don't like in my protagonists whether they're Young Farm Boys or Not-Like-Other-Girls Generic Girls.
Sure. But the relationship was super toxic. I literally DNFed the book in the middle of a "romantic scene" because it was genuinely gross.
@@ArielLVT oh well never mind 😓
We should match up all the centuries-old shadow daddies with all the "it's ok because she's actually a 1000-year-old succubus" lolis from anime.
Underrated comment 😆
NO!!! then the world would explode because they cancel each other out. We *must* keep them separate
I need to see this now!!!
Except everyone not into lolis will point out how creepy the loli thing is. No one who isn't into it looks at as normal, everyone realizes it's fantasy pdf stuff.
I'm not against the concept as long as there is no romance, ie a young looking very old character. But creepy guys are into it so they can have their creepy fantasies be justified.
Everyone gets it's creepy. Women get offended when you point out Edward was an old man in Twilight because they think you're attacking women in general, and not just pointing out what is kind of a weird aspect of the vampire romance series.
@@Brush4000 well yes, what really matters in visual media is how old a character looks. Edward looks 17...ish, so it's all good. The succubus looks 12, so it's messed up. When the truth is that it's both messed up, just for slightly different reasons.
Of course when we're talking Twilight, the irony is that that story also had the whole Jacob and Renesmee debacle, where people were rightfully upset because she looked like a child (and had the age of a toddler). Again, looks dictate what's perceived as wrong, not cold hard numbers. I don't think it has much to do with the gender of the shipping person though.
my theory is that readers are attracted to shadow daddies because it is expected for the darkest, most evil character to have a "change of heart" or even just a sweet spot and fall for a female love interest that usually resembles the average girl.
They wouldn't be as attractive if the archetype wouldn't generally fall in love with the good girl.
It's literally "I can fix him" extreme edition
"I Can Fix Him: Extreme Edition" gave me a good chuckle. True true.
taming the beast fantasy, fawnig for survival - viable strategy for many generations of women
No.
Just to give one example... for me, what appealed about Darklina was the way that in the first book he challenges her to confront her prejudices and consider the fact that he might not actually be a bad person just because the regular humans of the world have certain prejudicial biases against darkness in general and/or things that are 'other' or 'different' than themselves and such(the possibility that he might not have actually even needed fixing at all). Of course, it turned out in the end everybody's prejudices were actually completely justifed and well-earned, but that didn't change the potential appeal of the "but what if they hadn't been though" of it all. But then there entered a new potential appeal, which was confronting her own inner darkness or worst self, and struggling to understand whether or not she in his shoes would actually be less willing to cross the same lines as he had and/or whether or not her ability to like and be attracted to him somehow meant she was as bad as him or not. In zero situation was the potentiality of "she-can-fix-him extreme edition" actually it at all, at least not for me. But I'm sure different readers have different reasons for liking the same things.
@@annakwiatek-kucharska9858 Not necessarily viable, just preferable over the even-worse alternative? Settling for survival because truly thriving seems impossibly unattainable.
But then there is also the more super fantastical catharsis side of things where, even if something isn't actually likely or probable if even possible at all in reality, even the unlikely and improbable or outright impossible can still happen in fiction.
23:18 I think the thing with the fantasy age gap is that it always feels similar to a, “I can fix him,” mixed with some, “soulmate,” mentality. Like these dudes have been alive and sexy for centuries and suddenly some adult child comes along and, “she’s the one.” Like if anyone pulled this with a real person with an age gap of twenty or thirty years, it would be incredibly alarming. There’s power imbalances of multiple kinds, often simultaneously: mentor-student imbalance, authority imbalance, age imbalance, etc.
All of these characters also don’t act their age half of the time? Like I know in the ACOTAR series that most of the men are constantly thrown off or upset by what is the equivalent of a literal toddler to their species and culture. That’s somehow romantic or attractive? Why do you want a man who is 300+ years old and loses his mind publicly because you made a high school level insult at him?
Idk I think all of it is so far out in the realm of wish-fulfillment fantasy that if you brought any of it out of the fantasy genre vacuum into reality it would have more holes than a worm-ridden apple.
That’s exactly what I think too 😂
Well, that‘s Harry Potter for a proof. Not with the age gap of course, but pure wish fulfillment fantasy. It even has an „I can fix him“ fantasy in it with the whole Ginny and Harry love story.
Yep, it's the "He lived for hundreds of years but I'm the only one he ever loved" fantasy of it all, emphasizing how special the main character is 😮💨
I noticed there’s a growing desire for more FMC to be older than barely in their 20s because she can be more relatable. An older FMC can still be good looking, sexy, smart, and now they have some experience that match with the hot Fae MMC. The banter of them would be so funny and gives the hot man a run for his money.
Exactly!
Yeah, but those kind of romances started out in the young adult Genre, so it's not surprising that the formula calls for a lead in that age range. Now, adult women read it too, and want their Age range represented.
@@i.b.640 I think paranormal romances were already a thing before YA became a genre.
That said, I have the feeling that EVERYTHING is YA nowadays and fantasy romance for adults is barely written anymore.
I have just recently tried to find a good fantasy- or sci-fi romance and was not successful. Even the few adult romances have so many tropes that I am fed up with...
@@johannageisel5390 Paranormal romances were, absolutly. I was specifically talking about that kind of structure (I am just a normal girl who - it turns out - is something so special and has POWERS etc) and tropes. Sorry for not making that clearer.
These books are written for teenagers though so they’ll probably always have very young female protagonists
Id like to commend Christopher Paolini for reversing the dynamic where Eragon, the teenager, pines after the ancient elf Aria but instead of succumbing to the trope she not only doesnt court him but even rejects him to the very end. Very refreshing to see a story that subverts this trope
YES X10
I love how he went through with it
Also love the Murtagh x Nasuada dynamic
I read the scenes where Eragon shows feelings towards her and she straight up rejects him because he’s like her friend and doesn’t see him that way.
Realistic depiction honestly, life experience is way more important in romantic attraction than people think about. Or they just get it confused with physical attraction, that might be more likely
Does it really subvert it, or reinforce it because the genders are flipped? Older women younger man isn't really a popular trope inside or outside literature.
the butterfly clips are so cute, you look ethereal :')
I resonate with you her 🦋 clip is really cute
I was going to say, they look lovely! 😍
The reason romances so often center on girls 18 to 22 is the same reason for the farm boy trope, they are empty vessels. In both cases, they are old enough to be interesting, but not yet old enough to be broken (obvious exceptions excluded). These are stories about people just on the cusp of becoming themselves. As such, they are easier to identify with and easier to imagine a future for. I'll try for a more fulsome answer elsewhere, but that's the gist of it.
I also think it’s made to appeal/not deter younger readers. I really don’t think most 30, even 40 yo women feel like they have stopped being on the cusp of something new though.
My theory is that a lot of romantasy readers are fairly young women and are thus far better able to "relate" to younger main characters (just from a writer's and publishers point of view) . And these enormous age gaps are just so ungraspable that it doesn't even seem like an agegap anymore. Like you said it is impossible to translate to real-life. On the other hand an agegap from like 19/20 to anywhere between 70-normal human age is still pretty graspable and can thus translate to reality.
>impossible to translate to real-life
**yet**
@ are you hoping to meet a hot immortal shadow daddy in real life soon? xD
Elisabeth Wheatley talked about the age gap thing on her channel (the video is titled "Why are Age Gap Romantasy Books so Popular?") and she put forward the theory that women authors write female characters getting into relationships with ancient, supernatural men because the majority of men they interact with these days tend to be so immature and incompetent at important things like relationships and parenthood that the thought process is something like "well, if he's still acting like this into his adulthood, maybe someone with hundreds of years of life experience would actually know how to treat me decently, and I wouldn't have to baby him and raise him to get him to grow up." I don't know how much I believe in this theory, but with the rise of the incel "movement" and pickup artistry in the last two decades I do think that this mindset of women being responsible for fixing men's emotional problems and immaturity is a contributing factor.
We came to fiction for escapism and ended up having to fix what bugs us in real life, how true.
I saw that video of Elisabeth Wheatley and her other videos are just as interesting and insightful.
So women's version of alpha podcasts saying stuff like "if you want a good woman you'd have to be born a century ago" is romantasy books......... that's hilarious lmfao
My personal theory is that American writers that use this trope belong to puritan and evangelical churches and for them it's normal and desirable for men in their 40s and 50s to marry women 18 and 19 years old (and historically they married 14 year old girls).
I would believe that BUT a lot of these centuries-old love interests are also insanely immature and emotionally unavailable lol
My thoughts on the age gap thing are that we think of these men as having developed (not aged) somewhat proportionally to the other characters. They're immortal (sometimes), but their behavior is stuck at 20-30ish, similarly to Edward being stuck at 17 in Twilight. They might be hundreds of years old, but they don't show it in any other way than maybe recounting some far-off past event or in a damatric monologue about how tough it is to watch loved ones age and die, etc. Also, they're conventionally attractive and not wrinkly old men. They 'match' a regular couple appearance wise.
Why write them older then?
@@deniseperez7007 The power fantasy? I'm talking about behavior here, not lived experience. Also, isn't it just peak wish fulfilment that a century old being chooses YOU out of the thousands he's encountered over the years? Usually, the 'shadow daddy' has in some way sworn off relationships and his cold, cold heart is defroszed by the protagonist. Also also, old people funny. The contrast between archaic male lead and modern female lead can be played for laughs or genuinely add something to the story since their world views naturally contrast. It's everything an age gap relationship has to offer without any of the 'ickiness' that I think we associated with seeing a visibly aged man and a younger woman. A grey area of power imbalance.
@acjnaihbdj isn’t the old people funny and archaic men kind of contradictory argument? I’m not against age gap tropes tho I just like them when done right.
@acjnaihbdjalso archaic men are kind of icky… 😬
@@deniseperez7007 "why write them older" - because it's not really about their age, it's about the fact that they are something other than or outside of / beyond a normal human life/reality, and sometimes if they've only lived the same number of decades as the human character has then they aren't quite 'removed' or 'other' enough to symbolize a truly fantastical step/escape into the implausible or unreal. Sometimes it's not really about about imagining what if something was real, sometimes it's as much or more about imagining something that can/will never be real.
But also the thing that does or doesn't appeal about it absolutely can and does differ/vary quite a lot from one individual who likes that thing to another-like one person might like it for one reason, while another person likes it for a completely different reason entirely. And this is a part of why generalizations can be so questionable.
My personal two cents on the age gap romance (and granted, I've only read 'Addie La Rue', 'Shadow and Bone', 'Belladonna' and 'The Serpent and the Wings of Night'), is that I expect the immortal being to have transcended base human urges like love and lust. I feel like they'd be so old that they'd forgotten the human element of romance and getting with the young FMC romantically isn't a priority to them at first, until they start to bond with them and then, they fall in love. And because they're so far removed from the human experience, there aren't any gross hang-ups about her being super young, or worrying about a body count, or wanting to dominate or control her, because it's almost as though they're falling in love for the first time (or at least the first time in hundreds of years).
Which in my opinion, is a bit more acceptable than purely wanting to date a woman because she's so much younger than you.
Belladonna weirded me out with death knowing her from when she was a baby into adulthood - and then started a relationship with her? Like maybe i read it wrong or smthn because i haven’t heard much about it
leonie you're such a real one for making sure the art you used is made by people and that they're ok with you using it and linking them 😭❤
I think you hit the nail on the head. In Jane Eyre, Mr. Rochester (the love interest) is over 20 years older than our 18 year old protagonist and is her manager basically. He has a child and is getting married to another woman at the beginning/middle of the book. As a result, many see him as weird and creepy today, not to mention hes described as not conventionally attractive. However these shadow daddies dont have any of the “drawbacks” and realistic life effects of getting older: no children, no wives, etc.
after reading the whole Delicious in Dungeon manga, i think the way Ryoko Kui handles vast differences in lifespan and age would make for a good world to explore this type of relationship in more detail, though there's not really any explicit romance in the manga. In the Adventurer's Bible (extra book of bonus comics and worldbuilding stuff), there's a bonus comic about one of the elves who's 137, but in terms of life stage/maturity she's equivalent to like a 27 year old. She has a reputation for dating a lot of half-foot women (their lifespan is abt 50, and she dates women btwn 20-30 which is like 30-50 year old humans). The elves view her as being creepy because they see all short-lived races as children (tbh she kinda is just the lesbian leonardo dicaprio), but from the perspective of the half-foot women she dates they feel like cougars dating an immature 20-something with a superiority complex who ditches them once they get closer to old age. People in the fandom also have some pretty interesting conversations about ethics with shipping, particularly btwn Marcille's parents who met when her tall-man dad was a teen but her elf mother was old enough to have lived through the history he was studying, Chilchuck and Senshi, and Kabru and Mithrun. 2 characters could look around the same age but one of them is much further along in their lifespan, while another 2, like Chilchuck and Senshi, could look very far apart in age even though they're both middle-aged. with fantasy age gaps i just think it's disappointing that the complications of it aren't usually explored in more detail! like id be interested in reading about a middle-aged or older character and a 100s of years old character that looks much younger, and the complicated issues that would go along with that, rather than just romanticizing the power difference btwn a 17 yr old and 500 yr old.
Wait who’s the elf lesbian?😭 (i’m anime-only)
Delicious in dungeon mentioned 🙏🙏
@@ceycey6037 she was barely introduced in the first season of the anime, so you would only know her from her looks i think, but it's otta from the canaries, she's elf equivalent of a butch lmao
@@ceycey6037 the elf girl with close cropped hair you see in the party of elves at the end of the season.
Just another Ryoko Kui W. She’s a very based fantasy author of 21st century tbh. Her worldbuilding is impeccable and really comes from real love if fantasy unlike all these romantasy and their Rhysand knock-offs
The Power and consent thing is the reason why Mr Rochester needs to Fall and Jane needs to rise before they get together in Jane Eyre.
Honestly it blows my mind that a book written in the 1800s has more of an emphasis on equality than so many books written in the 2020s.
@@user-ny1wo1vp9r In the case of Jane Eyre, it actually is about equality, but many books from the 18th and 19th century have similar concerns, but due to classism. It was seen as imprudent to marry outside of your class, especially down, for women, because they had a fall in status, for men, because how would his wife teach the children their values or be a good hostess. In pride and predjudice, Lizzy Bennet reminds Lady Catherine - and the reader - that though lacking in funds, she IS a gentleman's daughter and as such equal to Darcy.
In the novel "Pamela" the 15 Year old heroine is a servant who has to constantly fend of se*ual assault by her employer/master - which impresses him so much (not her strong will, mind you, but her virtue and virginity) that he falls in love with her and marries her. It was a scandal, not for all that r*pey stuff, but because people were afraid it would cause girls to look above their station for marriage.
12:48 Yeah, I saw a video of someone saying that women like ancient male love interests because they've already matured and figured their stuff out, meaning that the FMC doesn't need to do it for them. But that is NOT true. Most of the shadow daddies are incredibly immature and childish. It's purely about a powerful dom fantasy. He acts like he's 14 but with more frick frack experience and a couple hundred years of deleting his enemies from existence and becoming super poweful and infamous.
That’s true for a LOT of pretty mediocre books I’ve seen (there are ao3 fanfics with better written romance)
You had the funniest opportunity here by calling the shadow daddy the Hades Archetype
My theory is that it's not so much a fantasy about power/age imbalance, as it is a I'm-not-like-other-girls fantasy. "See, this incredible, super old and intelligent creature finds ME, a 17 year old girl, worthy of his affection? I must surely be SO SMART beautiful and mature, not to forget powerful myself because I have some control over this person too, to be able to do that!" ☺
Plus, when you're 17 and think you're secretly the best/smartest/most mature/definitely fully developed in every way, I also don't think you can even conceive of the actual differences in maturity between yourself and someone even just 10 years older. So long as they're still hot, age is _literally_ just a number in their world! 😏It's sooo much easier to look back at your teenage self as 30 something and see your immaturity, but when you're there, you just cant grasp it. That's my hot take!
Thisssss, this is so true and such a good point! I really think it's often less about the power dynamic being hot and more about what it means that an super powerful immortal man is completely bewitched by a girl with little to no real life experience (it means she's SPECIAL even though she doesn't try to be and because these heroines are often bland characters that allow the reader to self insert, it means that I, the reader, am special).
Yes. This!
Oh I can see that being a part of it yeah (definitely feels a bit true to me and to my shame I was very much a "not like other girls" girl lol). However, these teens aren't writing the books - the fanfic sure but not the published books. But I guess authors write what's popular + some of them might've been like me, a "not like other girls" girl except they grew up to become published writers :D
After volunteering at a women's shelter, I have stopped finding the age gap or shadow powers trope romantic at all.
Similar for me too. After my sister fled to a shelter it changed my view on this a lot... She's in a better situation now thankfully
@ga4667 thank god she is bette4
You had experience with shadow powers that turned you away from them?
Why?
@@ga4667wow and you didn’t even take her in instead tsk tsk
21:27 I also think you sometimes forget how „old“ those people are because they look like mid twenties and normally (my opinion) don’t behave like a regular old guy. In the story they feel younger which makes me forget that they are this old.
There’s also something to be said for the classic ‘dark brooding warrior battling to find the light’ x ‘light pure girliepop learning to accept her darkness’ romance model which particularly hits
It wasn't until the last example you gave that it finally hit me, but now I can't un-realise it: the shadow daddy x barely legal young woman trope is really just a rehash of the Death and the Maiden motif. It's 5 CENTURIES OLD! There really is nothing new under the sun.
"I would like to see a romance between two shadow daddies"
Yes! Me too! It is impossible that such a thing does not exist. But I didn't find anything similar 😢
Two dark grizzled dudes saying “back in my day…” back and forth while bitching about the “youngins” I NEED IT
A creepy addition to the list: In Kane Chronicles by Rick Riordan, Sadie Kane is like 14 (I think, I read it a while ago) and her love interest is Anubis, the Egyptian god of death.
To be completely honest, it's probably less about them being super old and more about them being essentially personified concepts in some sense timeless and/or existing comparatively outside of reality or beyond the passing of the ages versus humans stuck in the trenches with a ticking a clock all coming into this world and leaving it in the same exact way and this love interest in some small way or another representing a possibility of maybe taking and elevating or removing that human character from it too right along with them. Mythological gods, much like supernatural and/or magical creatures like vampires or fae, can often enough theoretically transform the human character into something else/other/more than the humans was to begin with at very least metaphorically or thematically or such if not even outright literally.
I have also read them and while he is a love interest, he is technically not the final one. Walt is the one that she ends up with, but she technically ends up with both of them because Walt ends up becoming his avatar or something like that. Because without him, Walt is dying
Also, this is a bit irrelevant, but really? Walt? Use your full name man, Walter sounds so much better
I read this one book where a 13-year-old gets impregnated by the literal god of everything. It was so weird but somehow there's a fan club billions strong and in a few weeks, much of the world gets a holiday to celebrate that 13-year-old giving birth.
@@GhostsMcGee Mary was _13?_
@@GhostsMcGee what fandom is it?
Why I think these books don’t feel like an age gap is because the immortal characters are described to look and act like a young adult. The age in these stories is not what create the power dynamic between main characters, it’s simply the fact that he is immortal and has very powerful magic, besides that, he acts like he is the same age as the main character a lot of the time.
Didnt finish the video yet but! just wanted to thank you for caring about including non ai generated art to represent the characters you're talking about 🩷 as an illustrator it warms my heart :) (also your voice is so soothing i love watching your videos to unwind ☆)
I love how in most media, darkness powers are associated with the bad boy character, but in Chainsaw Man, the Darkness Devil is literally an unspeaking eldritch being
I hate that they are called shadow "daddies". Look at them! That's not how someone who is as old as your father looks like! They all look like boys! "Shadow boyfriends". Real shadow daddies are those of the type of Emmerich Volkarin.
Anyway, great vid as always and looking forward to the next one!
haha yeah, these are not age-gap when all these men-boys look and act like they are stuck in their 20s.
More like shadow frat boys, maybe
these Shadow daddies don't have a fraction of Emmrich's swag
Shadow noah becks basically
The real shadow daddy is Fuhrer Bradley from fma
New drinking game! Take a drink every time she says "shadow daddy" 😂
You might die though
I think what makes these huge fantasy age gaps so popular is that they’re basically a whole wish fulfilment cocktail with the added bonus that its impossible nature allows emotional distance for the reader (vs. big age gaps that could happen irl and would automatically bring bad associations with them).
Depending on the story any of the following can be part of the fantasy:
- financial/material security, abundance of resources (a centuries old guy had enough time to gain riches)
- the great power together with “she’s the one” the super powerful guy gets soft for: safety/protection with a side note of possessiveness, optional: she also “fixes him”. But I really think what makes these extreme power imbalance fantasies so popular is that they’re fundamentally more about the protection (he can keep her safe from even the most extreme threats and repeatedly chooses to do so, he chooses to use his power he could use against her to protect her instead, in more extreme cases he technically has all that power but will submit his will and actions to her, so she ultimately calls the shots-ultimately it’s a power fantasy where he gets tamed by his love for her)
- he managed to live ages without her/by himself, aka he doesn’t need to get babied or taught to be a functional adult (in stark contrast with many guys in the real world), but once they meet he can’t live without her anymore (the fantasy of being outstanding, one of a kind, and having someone notice & appreciate that)
- generally the mystery of a brooding moody guy and the challenge of winning him over (and earning his devotion with that)
- the young FMC as self insert for the reader & the emotional safety of getting invested in a fictional love interest that cannot exist in reality (yearning for something that’s possible/within grasp can make us feel too vulnerable, in contrast yearning for something impossible is safe while still letting us enjoy the experience of yearning)
I really think those kinds of romance stories are all about fantastical escapism, where yes he technically has power over her, but him not (really) using said power against her is in many cases the whole point of the fantasy.
A faerie POSTEDDD!!!the corset and the clips??!!gorgeous
Isn‘t Dracula the original powerful and immortal Shadow Daddy?🧛🏻♂️
He’s morphed into one over time, but the original Dracula was portrayed as being both creepy and visually unappealing. Sexy Drac is actually pretty modern, and I bet you could find an example of a “sexy supernatural man” written long before him. Not a bad guess at all, though!
Book dracula is terrifying
Not book Dracula, who's described as a predator and monster. Basically, he was the distant prequel to "hot Snow" from the Hunger Games.
book dracula has a wack ass mustache
@kittyoverlord96 I'd argue Paradise Lost started it with the tortured, misunderstood bad boy Lucifer Morningstar, himself.
22:14 late teen male here, and many guys, myself included, absolutely find older women attractive, and its especially for the same reason some people find older men attractive, they’re more experienced, likely to be wealthier, etc
That is indeed true. I know a lot of people who are into older women as well as younger ones. Me included
In our teens specifically there's also the fact that younger girls are like a fair bit less mature. Like, I couldn't ever date someone more than two years younger than me, heck even 2 years younger feels weird, that's my little brother's age! But maybe in my mid to late twenties it'll be less of an issue.
@@Pandora_The_Pandait's true, when you're a teenager two years is a long time. Heck, even six months is long! Lol but once you reach late teens, like 18ish, dating a 20yo isn't a problem.
Need that PS5 somehow
I think the loophole these immortal characters exploit is that they are immortally 20-30. They are never in the life stage of a 50 yr old. So the fact that they are in the same life stage (looking to settle down, pre kids) makes it less weird for many of us who aren't really into realistic age gap stories. It's an age gap but only mentally, never physically or emotionally or even philosophically.
I feel like the female equivalent of shadow daddies are assassin mommies bahahahaha
Got any examples of character like that? I don't have anyone in mind, aside from Monza from The First Law
Or ice mommies maybe?
You'll find some in Tolkien verse.
Guy was obsessed with mortal man x immortal elf.
There's also Galadriel and Celeborn.
Though Celeborn isn't mortal, he's still way younger and they have a power difference
@@Pandora_The_Panda So Emma Frost from X-Men then?
@@WaltDevil060 Tbf, yeah kinda. And she fits the much older than normies but looks like she's in her prime.
One of the main problems with age gaps is that there is a huge power and *experience* difference. But what I’ve noticed with shadow daddies is that they are a close age to their mortal love interest concerning their respective lifespan. If they’re 300 years old and their species is immortal, he’s implied (by his attitude and interests) to be in his species equivalent to a mortal in their 20’s or 30’s. So while there is an age gap, in relation to level of experience, the fmc and the sd share some type of mutual understanding and relation. They are still able to communicate and have real conversations. But a human 20 y/o and a human 50 y/o wouldn’t be able to have such conversations or a mutual understanding.
Basically, shadow daddies (for the most part) are, relative to their species lifespan, the same age of their love interest (or a little older) making the age gap between them different and less detrimental.
But still hot.
I just. started the video and oh my god that pinkish lighting, the hairclips, the earrings? Magical.
This video made me reflect on other age gap relationships I read as a teen and just found out Alec was 17 when him and Magnus started dating which is… odd. I guess twilight did the same thing.
Super interesting analysis! I tend to agree that once it gets to like a hundred years the age gap doesn’t feel like an actual age gap but still the underlying power imbalances underlying.
Oh I HATE Alec and Magnus!!! Magnus is SO CREEPY!! He's literally like "Clary, you're like a daughter to me" and then goes and DATES a boy A YEAR OLDER THAN HER??????? 🤮
@@Faith-Trust-Pixie-Dust The difference is that Magnus had seen Clary when she was a literal baby or smol child, versus Alec he theoretically didn't meet until Alec was already older. Also, in the books, Clary is literally like 15 yrs old-but Alec was like 18 to 19 yrs old. Clary was aged up for both the movie and the tv series.
@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 yeah.....still not ok 😅🙃 Magnus is from, what, the 1700s? And has ready access to date other immortals but chooses a teenage boy who's "technically legal" but has also never been in a relationship, while Magnus is KNOWN for being in relationships? That's weird
@Faith-Trust-Pixie-Dust Wasn't really debating if it was or wasn't okay-just pointing out why Clary vs Alec are kinda separate / not exactly comparable issues.
@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 no that's why I'm saying they are comparable issues. They're literally almost exactly the same issue, only it's MM and not MF...an immortal, significantly older man with (demonic, if we're going off canonical lore) magic powers dating a teenager...
leonie thank you so much for talking about crediting the artists whose work you featured, really glad to see a non-art channel bringing this up haha
Love your videos! As for the super age gap theory and why readers love them in these types of novels, I also think the “soulmate” idea adds a lot to it as well! It’s romantic and swoon worthy if the two characters are meant to be, and they’ve managed to find each other after centuries of “looking” or something like that.
My favorites are also the dynamic when the ancient shadow daddy is like really far removed from modern society so the love interest is like his teacher that way. Like sure he’s thousands of years old and commands legions but the concept of using a cellphone or Door Dash would rattle him😂
Your essay videos are always great topics of conversation.
I think your comment of 'shadow daddys' been the fantasy version of the Paranormal trope of Vampires falling for young girls is spot on
Agreed!!!
The cloths the vibe tge hair the accessories! Everything is so magical and so fitting to the video
Love it when people talk about the Grishaverse ✨
I want to preface this by saying that I've only read Fourth Wing, ACOTAR and The Invisible Life of Addie Larue plus started watching the Shadow and Bone series (yes, because of Ben Barnes duh 😁) so I have no idea about all the others but in these ones there's definitely an element of "plausible deniability" almost? I'm not sure it's the right term but my point is that the FMC never really has the choice of whether or not she wants to associate with the shadow daddy character: she's always bound by fate or a soulmate system or kidnapped or tricked into the whole thing. Even though there's almost always another loverboy option for her, somehow she can't help being drawn to the tall dark and handsome morally grey anti-hero and this fateful bond between them is basically the excuse for the dubcon you mentioned. Being with the bad boy against her will is okay because she can't help it, it's not her fault, therefore she is not accountable for indulging in the dark desires that pull her to him and in the end she has nothing to feel guilty about. Does that make any sense? Maybe not, but if anyone has read this, I'd love to know if my rambling can be applied to the other books as well 😁
This is actually one of the reasons I stopped liking soulmates and bond stories. Ive had similar thoughts and feelings.
No, you're onto something I think! This is a pretty common trope in a LOT of romance tbh; maybe the shadow daddy is just its newest iteration
I think it's the evolution of dubcon being common in romance in general so the main girl can always have plausible deniability when it comes to romantic or sexual desires. Which unfortunately normalized SA for readers.
And the bond stuff is just the slightly less icky version that's less SA but still kinda feels like magic roofies if you squint hard enough.
You are spot on! Because gods forbid a woman owns her sexuality and act upon it.
@@pauieeepau Yeah, dubcon lets readers read stuff like that without the guilt of fetishizing straight-up rape
Off topic, but I love how Dorian from ToG has shadow magic but he was such a golden retriever, the shadows weren't there to make him look mysterious, but to show how much he's changed after his life turned upside down. Also, Manon was older(115?) and more powerful at the start. A switch in the trope that was so refreshing and still iconic. Still a shadow bf tho🤍
It's funny to me that the same people pushing this kind of literature now get crazed out to consider Victorian Era literature where the idea of a guy in his forties or fifties marrying a girl around twenty was seen as normal. Very strange but I guess, whatever floats their boat? lol. Always a pleasure, Leonie, hope your holiday season is going well!
Leonie's white board - New and Improved!
Love this comment🔥 really OG bookleo things
White board -> Off-white wall
0:34 now that I think of this, this kinda sounds like Aragorn….
But Argorn has an age gap where he is the younger of him and Arewin. And hes doesnt use shadow magic. But I see where your coming from. Aragon is a Daddy no if, ands, or buts lol
@@kungfubigfootmmmm Aragorn created this deep set need for men that look dark but are so good. I want a man that seems bad but has got a heart of gold and endless love.
The appeal isn’t that they’re old, it’s that they’re experienced. I don’t think that age gaps in fantasy worlds hold the same weight as ones in the real world because someone who’s 75 years old in a book is only a fraction of their mythological lifespan. The appeal is that they take longer to mature, and which means that they get to take their time in getting good at things and building experience. Cassian, Rys and Azriel are able to goof off and be stupid and have fun all while being experienced in war and combat and s*x. They get to be all of those things while still getting to enjoy being young and ‘dumb’ without the worry of losing that youthful energy. And that level of power and energy and time is appealing. It’s something we all long for in ourselves and that we find attractive
4:50 lmao i read Crescent City, and just a note, Ruhn doesn’t use his light powers bc he barely has any, it all went elsewhere haha
For those who are interested in any type of romance books, i highly recommend watching contrapoints video essay about twilight.
It will change the way you see the romance genre.
Thanks so much for the suggestion!! Just checked out that video and i wasn’t ready for that level of deep thinking at all lol. Almost an hour in n pretty sure most of it went over my head but still what a banger
@@lithlith26 That's the Contrapoints Experience in a nutshell, haha
@@lithlith26 of course, so glad you liked it.
Yes I came here to say this!!
thank you! I'll check it out
the outfit is so pretty omgg
I once saw someone say that ACOTAR is just the Twilight of this time and it completely changed my perception of the series
It's always been funny to me how Twilight got mercilessly raked over the coals back in its day, meanwhile ACOTAR is if anything worse and broadly unknown to the larger public.
GIRL UR OUTIFT IS FIREEEEE
Your outfit looks amazing! Also thank you SO MUCH for asking permission and crediting the artists; so many bookish content creators don’t; and it drives me nuts! I really enjoyed this video. I am also obsessed with Death from Belladonna; I thought it was so well done!
I love _The Lord of The Rings_ but I was shocked when I read that Arwen was over 2000 years old when she met Aragorn who was 20 years old and of top of that , they're distant cousins ... At least both of them were ADULTS when they fell in love and started their relationship !!
How often does this trope happen the other way round? I can only think of Arwen/Aragorn from LOTR and Yvaine/Tristran from Stardust.
But the cool think is that when Arwen first met Aragorn, she dismiss his love as if it were a small boy's crush, which totally where by her perspective 😂 they only got married when Aragorn was around 80 years old
@@brendhacaldas4396 and he was always loyal and faithful to her despite they couldn't be together for so long
Considering Aragorn was 80 when they get married
@@judyquinn8151 Beren and Luthien. About the same age difference as with Aragorn and Arwen. Tolkien's wife was several years older than him, at a time when this did matter - in his youth. Tolkien was 16 years old when they first met and fell in love and his future wife Edith was 19. Tolkien's guardian forbid him to see her or contact her until Tolkien was 21 and she 24.
16:52 OMG yes thank you I was waiting for the Edward Cullen shout out! He may not be the first, but he is the strongest ancestor!!
I got back with my peppermint mocha just in time!
I loved the way it's done in Belladonna and the voices make it even better in the audiobook.
Leonie, you don't know me, and I don't know you personally either. But your channel and content and videos give me so much comfort, you don't even understand. Thank you so much girl, please never stop making videos
As much as it frustrated me as a kid, I really appreciate Paolini making Arya, a several hundreds year old near immortal elf, look at Eragon, a 15 year old, and go "nope thats weird and gross and you can take your little crush elsewhere". That is the way it should be 👏👏
something i realize is that a lot of these books also fall into the category of trying to have a girlboss protagonist but the author still wants the fantasy of being saved by a man so the girlboss is just told over and over to be super strong and smart but is easily overpowered either by her love interest or for a villanous character so the man can save her, it just pisses me off why cant SHE save him after hes been kidnapped and locked in a tower by evil doers * sigh *
There was a video game I played years ago where you have the option to play as a girl and literally one of the first quests you get is to save a male character I had a massive crush on. It’s actually how he’s introduced. And let me tell you, that quest felt so dang good. It made me understand why male-oriented media has the guy saving the girl. It probably gives men the same huge rush of dopamine it gave me to do the opposite.
@kittyoverlord96 i dont think theres anything wrong with a man saving a woman but when EVERY SINGLE one of these romantasy books falls into the trope of a helpless woman that needs saving it just gets so ... boring fkwjwnxk
it could work if it alternated yknow ? at some point both of them save each other to show that theyre now in equal footing (and the initial power imbalance is addressed)
im not accusing you of saying the opposite of what im saying im just rambling a bit lol
You get that in Beren and Luthien.
One of the reasons I love Tolkien.
Though at the beginning his works sound very sexist, at the end you begin to see that they are way better than some of the modern "feminist" books
@@kittyoverlord96 im really curious on what video game it is if you remember
theres a book series that i remember has the girl saving the guy from the tower, in the last book. im fairly certain it has a fairly even amount of the characters saving eachother throughout the series too. it is a childrens series and based on fairy tales (think if it was percy jackson but an after school club), so theres that, but its the ever afters by shelby bach if you wanted to take a look
I have one for you: Arya and Eragon from the Eragon books. Okay, she wasn’t a shadow mommy but definitely older, more powerful, and acknowledging of her experience - so much so that she denies Eragon because of their power imbalance. But that’s an OG example to the extent that it wasn’t really starting a powerful non-shadow-mommy phenomenon, it’s just all I’ve got.
At 12:01 I thought it was more because it would possibly be a little harder to write a wiser, smarter, somewhat more-experienced female love interest because they might not or can't always be as stubborn and rash or just naive. Also, it could also probably be something about relatability, right? Easier to relate to a 17-19-year old than a 30 or 47-year old lady (for those that WANT to relate to MCs) since a lot more readers of this genre have likely been 17-19 rather than 30. Those are just my thoughts but I wouldn't know enough to say exactly :/
The outfit is giving Emily Wilde vibes ✨✨✨
The new popular booktok romantasy Quicksilver could also be noted for a shadowdaddy I think as well as Lightlark. I'm surprised how much this has become a trope.
I enjoy the dark and broody ML but I've never been a fan of age gaps with older men.
When you said "it's clear that every shadow daddy was based on him..." I was screaming Dracula ahhah I guess not this time
My favorite thing about this is that Infinity is a concept not bound by substraction, so infinity minus 19 is still just infinity (no shade at all!) I genuinely find it entertaining because it really does just make the point funnier to me. XD
I kinda felt like that actually was the point? Lol
@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 It wasn't clear to me if that was the intention. Either way, it is fun! :)
@@maloreally Fair enough! (And it certainly is) 🙂
Not a book, but I feel like Angel and MAYBE Spike from Buffy the Vampire Slayer fit the "shadow daddy" theme; and based on a book, but Lucifer in Lucifer also fits this trope
I don't think Spike is a shadow daddy. He's more like the OG inspiration for Draco in leather pants. Buffy doesn't have anything romantic/sexual to do with Spike until she was clearly the dominant or at least equal to him.
Sexualising inequality has always been beyond me.
Also Lorcan from throne of glass is 500 years old and Elide is 18. Lorcan also has some kind of death magic
And Dorian has shadow magic but then again I think Manon is older that Dorian
Your ad transition was so smooth I didn't even skip it, mad respect
I attempted to read Fourth Wing on a recommendation from a friend without knowing anything about it beforehand and after I got the introduction of Xaden and it was so ridiculous and cringe I laughed and stopped reading it
I read Fourth Wing... I'm not proud that I finished it... and also read the second book.
I really appreciate that you used real fan art and not AI!
Tell me all of these guys aren’t based on the modern interpretation of Hades…
It probably has more to do with the Hollywoodification of Dracula and/or Anne Ricean vampires, honestly.
A woman in my writing group is writing this exact dynamic, and it’s hilarious.
It’s also hilarious that these dynamics are written by women, read by women, desired by women, but it’s still somehow described as “weird” with the not so subtle implication that it’s the man’s fault.
"I think this is the only shadow daddy age gap where the main character is underage"
*cough* Anubis *cough*
But didn’t Sadie end up with like. Two guys mushed into one (with one of them being Anubis)? That was actually the bit I couldn’t handle
@kittyoverlord96 not exactly. Walt and Saide end up together, but Anubis makes Walt his avatar on earth so Walt is not dying anymore (he has a curse if I remember well), so technically she is with Walt, Anubis is just helping keep Walt alive
it's like the "step-" thing for other taboos. it isn't 100% the same morally to your brain when a supernatural element comes in. this tiny separation makes it ok to your brain even tho it changes little of the problem in dynamic
Step isn't a little change. You are literally not biologically related, so if you bang and have a kid there's no chance of it having some kind of developmental issue the way there is between actual biological family.
Girl I need your WARDROBE ASAP!
the first thing that came to mind when i saw the title was 'belladonna' and i've heard about that one from you hahaha (and i loved it!!!)
you look soooo beautiful btw
"The original Shadow Daddy-" Hades?
I'm just at the beginning of the video but THANK YOU for properly referencing the artists who created the fanarts you're showing ! So few youtubers does that. It has become difficult to find good fanart that isnt AI generated, its so frustrating !
Azriel is on my mind 24/7
Love this video, love how you cringed every time you said shadow daddy 😂
I would too but we all enjoyed these books 🤷🏼♀️😂
Finally you posted
23:40 - This is A GENIUS THOUGHT - I'm definitely gonna write this down! Heck, could even go for a square-cross-over sort of thing, where the novel follows two young-woman-and-shadow-daddy pairings, and you THINK they're separate, but then they meet, and they actually decide to break up and recombine for some MLM and WLW endgame pairings!
Orrr, that's a trilogy right there - two books to set up each romance with that tension of will-they-wont-they as the climax, and then the third where the four of them meet! MAN, if I had ANY ability to write plots, I'd give it a shot! I'm just horrible at plots tho ^^;
I actually really would like to read about
a character with shadow powers and with hundreds of years behind while being a woman. Idk why i think it would slap so hard.
the way this description NEARLY fits one of my OCs except he has light powers and I made him into old people because he's basically a human turned immortal and I thought it would be funny
Usually I always skip sponsors but I just love watching the book of the month ones, the books always seem so interesting!
I'M HERE AND I'M SAT