The South Dakota Learjet Crash | A Short Documentary | Fascinating Horror
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- Опубликовано: 18 май 2024
- "On the 25th of October, 1999, golfing icon and reigning US Open champion, Payne Stewart, boarded a private jet en route to his next big tournament in Texas..."
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TRANSLATIONS:
► This video is also available in German ( • Der South Dakota Learj... )
SOCIAL MEDIA:
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► Suggestions: hello@fascinatinghorror.co.uk
CHAPTERS:
00:00 - Intro
00:43 - Background
02:08 - The South Dakota Learjet Crash
07:21 - The Aftermath
MUSIC:
► "Glass Pond" by Public Memory
► "Dreaming Blue" by Sextile
SOURCES:
► "National Transportation Safety Board Aviation Accident Final Report" by Robert P Benzon, published by the National Transportation Safety Board, November 2000. Link: airsafe.com/events/reports/nts....
► "Twenty years after Payne Stewart’s death, questions linger about his legacy, both as a player and a man" by John Hawkins, published by golf.com, October 2019. Link: golf.com/news/features/payne-....
► "Payne Stewart Dies In Crash" published by CBS News, October 1999. Link: www.cbsnews.com/news/payne-st....
► "A champion and a statesman - 20 years on, the tragic loss of Payne Stewart" by Iain Carter, published by BBC Sport, October 2019. Link: www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/5015....
► "New evidence: Payne Stewart's plane lost pressure before crash" by Carl Rochelle, published by CNN, November 1999. Link: edition.cnn.com/US/9911/23/ste....
#Documentary #History #TrueStories
I had knee surgery scheduled that day. As it turned out, the guy who was doing the surgery was a huge golf fan and a Payne Stewart fan (as was I). When I told him that Payne was on a ghost plane and almost certainly dead, the doctor looked truly shocked and affected. I remember thinking, great, now this guy has to cut me open while distracted and upset. Seems like it happened only a year ago.
I was thinking the same, it does not seem like 23 years have passed since then.
How did the surgery go?
@@illbeback111 The doctor put toys and deodorant in his body and stitched him up of course
@@rickrolled3666 Don't click on it...it's a short brainless video unrelated to ANYTHING as far as I can tell.
@@rickrolled3666 what, your favorite virus to mess with people? Nobody's dumb enough to click on a link from someone they don't know. So whatever you're selling, spam the hell out of here. If the links legit, I still say the same thing. You have to explain things, you have to give a description, a truthful one, of what the link is.
An old pilot friend told me that the only thing sure about flying is that you will be coming back down, and how well you do that is all that matters about flying.
So True!
Takeoffs are optional but landings are mandatory
“What goes up must come down.” Because gravity
@@drdrew3 Well before space vehicles passed the gravitational pull of the earth. There are plenty of craft that have taken off and still move further out into space and will for eternity, never to land.
A pilot friend of mine says basically the same thing about landings. His co-pilot would say to him after landing, “Well Ollie, we cheated death again!”
The man who owned the land that it crashed on creating a beautiful memorial for them is so wholesome.
I remember when the accident happened, but I never knew about that. What a great person.
@@rickrolled3666 piss off with your scamming link
I'm a little disappointed that the rock with the names of the victims has the crew in smaller letters as if they were worth less than the passengers. I understand holding the golfers that were beloved in higher esteem, but that seems a little weird to memorialize it in stone that way.
It is just what we do up here in “DAKOTA TERRITORY”……..
@@brookeg5979 Oh I didn’t know they did that! They mattered just as much ❤️
Tuesday wouldn't be complete without some Fascinating Horror.
Weekly dose of tragedy
Agreed!!
Correct you are sir! Have a good day!
Such a good bedtime story
Seriously. It’s become such a key part of my routine lol
It must have been gut wrenching for those pilots flying 'escort', being unable to do anything to help those onboard.
They were all dead long before the escorts arrived.
Going off the other comments, everyone on board was likely dead well before the pilots got there. If there's not enough oxygen for people to maintain consciousness then there's not enough oxygen to live. They functionally drowned, although perhaps a bit slower than one would in water because there was still a little oxygen just not enough.
Before they even took off all on board we’re dead
I thought the same thing, how helpless they must have felt.
Reminds me of the book "Sometimes a Great Notion" which was the movie "Never Give An Inch". A person was trapped in the water under a heavy fallen log as the tide of the water slowly rose. His family members fought for hours to find a solution but had to watch him drown and die. Great book and movie.
This is similar to Helios Airways flight 522, but on a much smaller scale.
121 people died after losing cabin pressure. Airforce jets watched as it crashed into a mountain in Greece.
Perhaps even worse, minutes before the crash one person was observed attempting to regain control of the jet. IIRC it was a steward that had an air canister.
I came here to say this!
That's the one where the student pilot flight attendant climbed into the captain's seat just to see if he could do anything to help if i remember correctly.
Steward who was a trainee pilot, he aimed the plane away from population centers, dude was a hero
Andreas Prodromou and his girlfriend Haris Charalambous, yeah. He couldn't get the plane under control after fuel loss since he didn't have experience with the 737, but did manage to steer clear of Athens.
Aunt Barbara adores you!
It is very sad that those on board passed away but at least they did so painlessly and early, being spared the terror of running out of fuel and spiraling to the ground without any way to change the outcome. It's nice that the farmer placed a memorial at the crash site, that is very respectable. And glad no one on the ground got hurt. But the loss of not only the golfers but also the pilots, with a long career still ahead of them, is devastating.
That farmer's done more for the dead than half the corporations that end up featured on this channel 😭
@@cheepymcpeepy Indeed! He not only voluntarily decided on building a memorial on the site, he also asked the relatives for permission beforehand and made it meaningful. It's no wonder they speak highly of him. Good man.
Are you sure they felt nothing?
That’s what I was thinking. As devastating as it would be to lose a loved one in this manner, I think there’d be some peace in knowing it was completely painless and fear free. RIP to the 6 souls lost that day ❤️
@@justtime6736 Not of the crash, yes. They would've felt the oncoming of hypoxia, meaning confusion, shortness of breath, coughing and wheezing but they would've lost consciousness shortly after and would've died due to hypoxia before the plane finally crashed. They didn't feel the pain or the terror of seeing their plane spiral out of control. I have a special interest in aviation disasters and when you listen to cockpit recordings of last moments... Trust me it's a blessing to be spared that.
That farmer did more for the victims and their families than any corporation featured on this channel ever has
True words! I guess because he was not motivated by profit but by humanity.
It isn't a surprise, but this channel does really show how little big corporations care for people, even their own customers. This farmer did it because he cared about the lives lost, any corporation that does actually give back to those affected by whatever egregious error they made does it to save face
@Lucky sleven I'll be entirely honest. I have no idea how what you're saying has anything to do with what I commented. I commented about the farmer talked about in this video compared to big corporations that are showcased on this channel. Nothing about being nice to me or about the channel wanting to make profit?
@@burcebanning Ignore him, he's either a troll, anarchist or conspiracy nut.
@@burcebanning I spent about 5 minutes trying to figure out what was going on here
Well, without oxygen you basically just fall asleep...no fear, no panic, no time to regret life decisions, worry about loved ones, no pain, no traumatizing scenes to witness in the last minutes before you die - I'ld say thats probably the least "horror" possible in a deadly plane crash
The most horror was for the USAF pilots who were escorting that plane, unable to do anything but knowing the ending.
@@pfadiva that's horrific af but they at least got to go home to their families that night. The real horror was boarding that plane not knowing what was in store for you. The real horror was knowing your loved was on that plane & was 100% marked for death. At least it was a painless death, almost peaceful even.
Isn't that how they put animals to "sleep"?
Jimmy: Then why doesn't the prison system execute people in this way. The way they are currently doing it has proven to put the prisoner through sheer agony before death.
@@Dan-oj4iq The cruelty is the point.
As an anecdote, I was the captain of a scheduled flight from Madison, WI to Denver, CO on the day of the accident. We were held, without explanation, by ATC with a departure delay in Madison. This is not uncommon if destination weather is poor and metering delays are in effect but puzzling to us since the weather along the entire route was severe clear. It wasn’t known until we arrived in Denver that the airspace had been cleared for the “ghost plane”.
I was working as an A&P at the time at a small airport. We heard on the radio that his plane was just flying straight and level and had been for awhile. We all pretty much assumed what happed once we heard what was going on.
Severe clear ?
@@markus7166 Severe clear: an aviation term airline pilots use to describe a bright blue sky with seemingly unlimited visibility. Severe clear conditions usually occur following a storm. ‘Severe Clear’ was the Sky conditions on 9/11 (thankfully) that enabled air traffic controllers to quickly clear the skies that day. CAVU means pretty much the same thing: Ceiling and Visibility Unlimited, an aviation meteorology term
@@markus7166 Cornball aviation parlance indicating the weather couldn’t be much better.
Shout out from Madison!!
This is both surreal and tragic. I can't imagine a jet flying by itself with dead occupants for over a thousand miles and just having to watch it go down. Sounds like a Bradbury or King horror novella
This also happened on a much larger scale back in 2005 with Helios Flight 225, if you're interested in looking into similar cases.
They could have been dead. But there's also the possibility that they were alive but unconscious until impact.
How would they be alive ? If the lack of breathable oxygen didn’t kill them cold would .
This one is just so eerie. The fact that the plane continued traveling long after everyone on board was dead... it's like something out of a Ray Bradbury story. I've never heard of a "ghost plane" before, but the term seems apt; the scenario does make one think of the Mary Celeste.
Other factors too add to the unlikelihood: the fact that an F16 pilot was nearby, the fact the plane traveled to an ideal, safe crash site, the length of time it flew on auto. It's all just too bizarre, but it really happened.
I know the Midwest is considered the "flyover states" by the coast dwellers, but the sparse population paid off in this case.
There’s F16s waiting all over the country, the Midwest is mostly empty, and auto pilot is made to fly until told otherwise.
There was another, much larger ghost plane incident due to loss of pressure and hypoxia. Helios Flight 522. It's such a scary thought of a plane flying itself with no one conscious worrying about where it may inevitably crash down
@@Lucas_Antar technically it's made to continue flying until disabled, by circumstance or pilot action
It truly is bizarre. I had never considered such a possibility. This is why I am so intrigued by true horror stories: I always seem to find something I never even considered to be possible. Like, the Lake Nyos Disaster and now the concept of a ghost plane. Reality can really do a lot to fuel one's imagination.
As a Learjet pilot myself, one of the first things I learned during the portion of my type school covering the ECS system was the lessons learned from this crash. Learjets built after this crash have been fitted with a cabin altitude warning system which will give you warnings as the pressurization drops beyond safe levels. While it won’t help you much in the event of a rapid decompression (what happened here), it will give you a warning in the event it begins to leak progressively so you have time to don the masks and begin an emergency descent. Another Learjet decompression incident you can look up that is very interesting is Kalitta Air Flight 66. Fortunately, thanks to the confused and hypoxic pilot speaking up, as well as the controllers on frequency who recognized something was wrong, disaster was avoided. If you listen to the ATC recording, you can tell the pilot sounds almost drunk as he calls the controllers, but becomes instantly aware as soon as he reaches a safe altitude. Very eye opening as to the affects hypoxia has on your body. Anyhow, great video once again, look forward to the next one!
Thanks for the insight, I was wondering about that. So, is programming autopilot to automatically descend to a lower altitude not an option here? I'd imagine if the cabin rapidly decompresses at that flight level and the pilot doesn't bring it down immediately, it's a lost cause unless autopilot intervenes.
Btw, I think I know the video you're talking about. The rapid change of the pilot going from slurred to completely normal speech is astounding.
That's very interesting because on MH370 the final message from the Captain sounded very 'off' and wasn't following the correct voice procedure. Hypoxia is a theory in that case also.
@@chris-hayes no problem! So, the pressurization is part of the environmental control system (ECS) and therefore has its own “brain”. In typical, automatic operation, all that the pilot must do is set the landing airfield elevation so the pressurization can equalize before the doors are opened upon arrival at the destination. However, there is a backup manual mode that can be used. Unfortunately, in the event of a rapid decompression, that is not an option for two simple reasons- one, in a rapid decompression, usually something has failed that allowed the air in the cabin to escape in the first place. Be that a door seal breaking, an outflow valve getting stuck or blown out, or an actual chunk of the aircraft cabin separating from the fuselage- similar to the Southwest Airlines flight a couple years ago. In this case, any attempts to re-pressurize the cabin would be futile. Secondly, even if you could, the cabin pressurization rate would not be sufficient enough to maintain consciousness. Look up “time of usable consciousness table” on google.. it’s pretty incredible how much time you really have in an emergency to Don a mask before passing out. Up where the Learjet I fly typically cruises it’s under a couple seconds. The cabin cannot pressurize that fast. Anyhow, good question, I hope this helps!
@@chris-hayes I think at the time there was less automated detection and avoidance between planes themselves. A plane suddenly descending through flight levels it wasn't meant to be in could be catastrophic to other planes using lower flight levels, and that could just compound a tragedy with another.
It’s terrifying just how many things need to go right for a flight to be successful. Makes it all the more impressive that so many flights go just fine all the time.
You have it backwards, the number of redundancies in place, the saftey requirements of aircraft. It takes many things to take an aircraft down, not one single failure l
@@quigglebert technically you are both right, so many things to have to go right for our society to function as it does, this includes planes being safe.....a single error on a plane can prevent a safe flight, not by everyone dying, but just by the people stopping the flight from happening, that is at least 2 and probably more people would have to ignore such an error and allow it to happen so that is the redundancy. But any single error can break the chain that makes a successful flight, that just doesn't have to end in death....and it's got to be a big link to do so solo.
supposedly the pilots' training for loss of oxygen was to troubleshoot it (essentially find out if it's something wrong with the computer), not don oxygen masks. It seems counterintuitive.
@@Spearca I watch alot of disaster stuff, especially naval and aircraft, as a rule, no single failure will cause a major incident, because the major failure states immediately downcheck an aircraft, for something to go horribly wrong, multiple instances of system failure/incomplete/incompetent workmanship, must combine to bring a craft down, not just the engineers, the pilots, look at cargo craft, the wrong thing loaded in the wrong way, and you have a fire that's undiscovered until it eats through the control surfaces/fuel lines
Actually, you have stated it completely backwards.
As a note, and what makes this very unusual, is typically when flying 2 pilot crew, (instead of single pilot) one crew member mantains their oxygen mask on and in place during critical stages, and when left alone in the cockpit for any reason. Therefore if cabin pressure is suddenly lost, one pilot always has an oxygen mask in place.
It also makes me wonder if there was a problem in the system with delivery of O2. While at very high altitude, hypoxia sets in extremely fast, I'm surprised neither pilot was able to get their mask on quick enough. This leads me to believe there were compound issues as in most accidents. In other words, a series of small mistakes or errors which lead up to both pilots becoming incapacitated. As a commercial pilot myself, I can tell you that we pilots go through extensive training on this exact subject and are very well aware of what hypoxia is, has fast it can occur, and the first signs that we are being affected by hypoxia.
So with all that in mind, its a bit perplexing just how and why this occurred.
The theory that makes most sense to me is the one involving the Learjet handbook. When the cabin alt warning sounded, the pilots would get the handbook which basically told the pilots what could be causing the problem and to attempt a fix. If that doesn't work THEN put on your oxygen mask.
The first thing you need to do in a decompression event is to put on your oxygen mask. The fact the handbook didn't tell the pilots that first likely wasted enough time for oxygen deprivation to render them unconscious.
Ya gotta be trained to recognize and respond immediately to an explosive decompression.
@@thefisherking78 And what if it isn't explosive? You are climbing like normal when you get an alarm in the cockpit. Oh? It's a cabin alt alarm? One sec let me check the handbook. Okay it says a cabin alt warning maybe caused by an incorrect dial selection. You need to make sure a dial is set for auto. If that doesn't fix the problem, then you put on the oxygen mask.
By the time they find that part of the guide, read it, and attempt to fix the problem they are already out of oxygen before they can read the part about put on your mask.
I don't think it was explosive, it was more likely a slow burn and the pilots were subdued before they recognised and were able to deal with it.
@@halfbakedproductions7887 That's exactly what i think it was.
@@mattstorm360 I read an article about the accident not long after it occurred. It had the same speculation, that it was a very slow depressurization that the pilots would not have detected quickly.
The Canadian prime Minister had been advised that the jet could potentially crash in the major Canadian city of Winnipeg. He authorized the plane to be shot down ONLY if the city was in danger. He was not an insensitive man and only had the people of Winnipeg in mind. He knew Mr. Stewart and liked him. It was not an easy decision for the prime Minister to make which he revealed in his book. This should have been expanded upon in this video. As is it makes the prime minister appear cold and unfeeling, which upon further investigation he absolutely was not.
Anybody who thinks of that potential decision as "cold" doesn't really understand hypoxia. Everybody on the jet had been dead for hours.
If that jet threatened the lives of anyone on the ground, that was it's fate. I can't see anyone not understanding that.
I don’t think it paints the Prime Minister in any negative way, it was clearly just a difficult but necessary judgment call, very understandable.
He made it clear that it would only be shot down if a populated area was in danger whether that was the US or Canada. US decision never had to be formalized because South Dakota only has like 14 people in the whole state
The gov’r of North Dakota also had orders to shoot it down if the plane headed towards Fargo or other cities . But due to it avoiding any major cities they let it go
I mean this as respectfully as possible when I say: as tragic as the crash was, it is poetic that the crash occurred in a remote field belonging to a golfing enthusiast. Little property was damaged and no one outside of the plane was hurt, which is about as well as fatal plane crash can go, it seems.
I'm glad Mr. Hoffman was kind enough and generous enough to allow the use of his field to memorialize those who lost their lives in the crash. I'm certain he was affected by the loss as well.
May all who perished in the crash R.I.P.
(PS - I just want to apologize if my comment comes off as insensitive. Death is a tricky topic to discuss so I deeply regret if that's how my comment sounds)
Not insensitive at all. There was nothing to be done for the people on the plane, so it's okay to be relieved that no one else was hurt. I remember I had the radio on at work and felt so helpless listening to the updates - everyone pretty much knew what was happening but there was nothing anyone could do.
Well said.
Well-stated.
I completely understood your sentiment and it was not at all insensitive.
Ugh, this comment is so insensitive and disgusting. It sickens me to read it.
As someone that watches a lot of episodes of "Air Disasters," including this one, it's amazing that a lot of these crashes end up away from heavily populated areas, thinking of the cities this plane passed over as the fuel was consumed. RIP to all onboard.
Do you realize how big America is and how small and condensed cities are?
I was thinking that too...it's a mercy that the plane was depleted of fuel and everyone on board had already quietly passed. Even if it hadn't hit a populated area, all those chemicals are decidedly not good for the environment and are a pain in the ass to try and remedy.
What shocked me was that the plane, even a personal jet, didn't have an FDR. I thought even personal planes were required to carry one by 1999?
Private planes are or were exempt
@@peterf.229 Ahhh, I see. It looks like the laws changed in 2005, but even then it's weight based. That's...unfortunate.
I've seen the "Air Disasters" coverage of this case: that fact is what drew me to watch this video.
1K views in 10 minutes?! Wow! I’m so glad to see this channel doing well. Seriously, some of the best content on YT.
3.2 in 24
I'm a simple man. When I see Fascinating Horror, I click.
I subbed about 2 years ago, yes it is crazy that I found my own comments from that long ago, time flies
He's nearing 1,000,000 subs.
It is truly impressive. I too look at the rate of views from the time posted. Fascinating Horror is great so it is not too surprising.
Riker: "He died peacefully in his sleep."
Worf: "What a terrible way to die."
You have won my interwebz trophy today 🎖
Valhalla
The Royale 👍
He died peacefully in his sleep, unlike the passengers in his car.
@@joez.2794 Bro, really? STOVAKOR BABY! Space Valhalla for all intents and purposes lol.
Major props to the landowner for putting together that memorial. I’m sure for the friends and family it gave much-needed peace.
honestly I teared up a bit at that part. With such a sudden, tragic loss of life, acts of kindness like that make such a huge impact. What a gem.
In a sense, for this reason (and because there was no corporate/govt cover-up and no terrestrial casualties) this is really one of the more heartwarming episodes of FH
@@nthgth I agree, if there were ever a light at the end of the tunnel for any of these videos, its this.
Payne Stewart was a gentleman and a huge loss to the golfing community even here in the UK.
I remember seeing Payne Stewart on an episode of "Home Improvement" on 1998, tragically this was the last time I saw him on TV. It was Modern Marvels: Engineering disasters 8 where I learned about the cause of the accident, no doubt a tragedy for those on board, and for professional golf.
It's nice to see Fascinating Horror covering aviation disasters.
I love the variety of disasters covered
Yeah im a avid fan of aviation industry and flaws as well these are the ones i recommend that this channel doesnt cover yet
- eastern airlines flight 401
- twa flight 800
- air france flight 8969
- northwest flight 255
- 2002 uberlingen mid air collision
- iran air flight 655
@@EngrPalits I'm waiting for the Rammstein Air Show Crash episode.
There was a similar air crash in Australia in 2000. A Beechcraft King Air flying from Perth to Leonora, the crew and passengers overcome with hypoxia.
Wow! I lived in Leinster (a mining town very close to Leonora) as a kid
I'm born/bred Sandgroper (from Western Australia)
I never heard of that case...
Reading up on this now, very interesting.
@@NannupTiger For some reason it didn't get all that much publicity. Maybe there were other news events at the same time.
Was this the crash you mentioned? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Australia_Beechcraft_King_Air_crash
@@NannupTiger Sand groper you say ? I hope the sand isnt traumatized by your disgusting, sexually motivated actions
I remember when this happened. Everyone was so freaked out and worried about where it would eventually crash. It was a horrific event any way you look at it.
😳
7
One of the most f__d up *BREAKING NEWS* events ever.
@@ann.ask. OMG! Hey there, Ann! Uguuuggghhh...I've missed the last 3 livestreams and I miss it. I'll be there this Sunday for sure! Did you see today's video? Ronnie was so...weird and goofy. 😆
I remember talk of the passengers and crew possibly freezing after or while dying of hypoxia. I was a real fan of Payne and his death left a huge hole in the PGA. I think he would've given Woods a run for the money in the 00's.
They likely did freeze . They had a fuselage leak ( I think like many others) that it was slow, which sucked the oxygen out of the plane ( high pressure moved to low pressure) and within a few minutes they all were dead. With the lack of oxygen and cold air from outside that entered ( remember it is at too low a concentration for us to breathe ) would cause their bodies to freeze . That is why they reported frost on the windshield , likely one of the pilots last breaths caused that .
I don't know about that…but I only say that because prime Tiger was a pure and simple force of nature, not because Payne didn't have the skills. It must be said that when Tiger eventually christened his first public course in 2020 near Stewart's hometown of Branson, MO, it was named Payne's Valley in his honor.
Just wouldn’t have given him a run for his money at the Waffle House!!
Reminds me of the Helios ghost plane incident. Don't know if similar systems exist in a Learjet but there maintenance had switched cabin pressurization from auto to manual to do work but neglected to switch it back. Pilots failed to notice the switch and took off. All but a flight attendant died from hypoxia and he died when the plane crashed near Athens.
According to the wikipedia article on Helios Airways Flight 522, autopsies showed all passengers were alive at the time of impact, but not necessarily conscious.
@@sebastianjoseph2828 Iirc they were said to have been in permanent irreversible comas or some other form of unconsciousness.
I am glad to see one of these with a more heartwarming ending, even if under such tragic circumstances.
My late father was obsessed with golf. When we were young, my brother and I used to go with him and explore while he golfed. When I got older, I went golfing with my dad a couple times, but I was not very good.
I do remember Payne Stewart (and unfortunately this incident), though, and thought his style was cool because it was unlike the rest of the golfers.
I am aware that no one really cares about my story because it adds nothing, but I have had a lot of caffeine, and I am at work.
thanks for sharing, i care :)
Maybe we're not about to gift you an award for journalism or something, but that doesn't mean we don't appreciate you sharing your story. This is you trying to connect in whatever way you can with people in this ocean of anonymous strangers, and I personally think it's beautiful. I hope your shift at work went well, although 11 months later you probably wouldn't remember.
Since the low pressure warning system was working, so the pilots would’ve had a (possibly very) short window where they could’ve taken corrective action. Seems like this is something an Air Force and high hour commercial jet pilot should’ve been trained on. There had to be multiple things that went wrong that day.
In a similar case (a Helios flight) the flight crew ran through checklists, as they are trained to do, but the airline's checklist did not have donning oxygen masks in the checklist. In their panic, they forgot to don their masks and just followed the checklist (as you are trained for in any emergency situation), and as hypoxia set in they would have become confused and disoriented. After this crash the step was mandated as the first step on any depressurisation checklist.
It all depends on how large the leak was and the threshold at which the alarm went off. If the pressure dropped steadily, both pilots might have failed to realise what was happening before they already suffered from hypoxia and therefore already lacked the awareness they so desperately needed.
According to the show Air Disasters, the pilots had a check list telling them what to do in the event of loss of pressure. The first entry was some nonsense BS that even invesgators couldn't understand. Putting on their masks was last on the list. Today, commercial and private pilots learn to instinctually put on their masks when the alarm goes off.
A maintenance employee had turned off cabin pressure to test it and he didn't turn it back on. It was always supposed to be on so the pilots didn't check it.
It's a complete unknown, maybe better training and/or awareness would've saved them, maybe there was negligence on the ground where a major defect in the plane was missed, or maybe there was nothing anyone could've done differently aside from being Nostradamus but real and never flying that plane ever again because DOOM!
For all those interested I have met in person one of the investigators. He believes that they went fishing not too long before the flight. They packed the fish on dry ice in boxes and later onto the airplane. As a Lear pilot myself, it is believed during the bleed air check on the before takeoff checklist, the bleeds were never set back to the on position. These switches are behind the yoke on the co pilots side, not visible to the captain unlesss the yoke is pulled full aft and the captain tilts his head to see it. Leaving those switches off would result in no cabin pressurization and the CO2 rapidly filling the cabin causing unconsciousness. If it was a mere cabin pressurization failure, there is several different warnings during the failure the pilot would receive during the cabin altitude climb called a pressure “ladder” resulting in the outflow valves closing and o2 masks dropping etc… But since this was lower altitude than the safeties put in place, they were asleep before that happened due to the rapid influx of the sublimating dry ice. There has been multiple cases of dry ice incapacitating people on aircraft, including some on the ground even before takeoff. Pilots need to be more aware of the dangers of dry ice in an enclosed space such as a cabin. What we are trained is that there are multiple safeguards in place to prevent us from becoming incapacitated, but those are ineffective against the cabin filling with a non breathable gas when the aircraft safeties just measures pressure altitude. I have had at least one occasion where the co pilot forgot to turn the bleeds on to pressurize the cabin which I caught under normal circumstances. The reason the dry ice isn’t mentioned in the accident report was because they didn’t have any evidence to support that theory so it was left out. However the possibility of it happening has been mentioned in pilot training, because people who know the systems always wonder how all the signs were missed. The Lear gives you multiple chances to save yourself during a depressurization event. So really that is one of the only rational explanations.
This is more likely...they should have time to take action but didn't
Thanks for this post. That could definitely be a factor, considering how quickly all on board became incapacitated. I remember this incident when it happened, Payne Stewart was a favorite player of mine, too.
That sounds likely but from what I understand CO2 is not the same as breathing in an inert gas in the sense of it calmly putting you to sleep. Having too much CO2 causes your lungs to spasm. That’s why if you hold your breath for a long time your lungs will start to spasm. So in the case of the cabin filling up with CO2 I’d imagine their body would violently spasm as they’re running out of oxygen and thus still have a chance to save the plane. But maybe at that point they can’t function well, idk.
I was a crew member on the University of North Dakota's Cessna Citation II weather research aircraft from 1984 to 1993. I was the instrument engineer and experienced the very thing that killed the crew on Payne Stewart's plane. Our crew probably survived because of my realization that I was experiencing hypoxia.
I participated in the altitude chamber training at Ellsworth AFB a few years prior. Our plane had a notorious cabin pressure leak at high altitude. We had an SF6 detection instrument on board, which was VERY sensitive to cabin pressure changes. We were flying at near the aircraft's service ceiling and this instrument started drifting badly. I asked the pilot to stabilize the cabin pressure so I could get accurate readings. It was no use, the cabin pressure kept decreasing.
We had a sensor in the electronics that would disconnect power from the research equipment when cabin pressure hit 17,000 feet, or something like that. I knew we were going to lose power soon, so I started taking notes on what was going on. Suddenly I forgot how to write. It was then that I remembered being unable to write was a symptom of O2 depravation.
I immediately yelled to the pilot, "Roger, drop the masks now!!" He did and we all survived to tell the story, although I was the only one that ever did.
The call sign of our jet was 77ND and is currently in a KS boneyard. It crashed in AK due to ice ingestion during a Sikorsky helicopter icing certification experiment. That crew survived with no injuries. If you'd like to see photos of that unintended landing, let me know.
I hope you enjoyed this little narrative. I enjoy sharing it.
You're a hero
Yes, would be interested in the photos for sure.
You speaking up about the masks is a perfect example of crew resource management saving lives. Listening to and respecting the input of all team members in a potential emergency is so vital. Bravo Zulu!
The checklist for the warning didn’t have oxygen masks as the first step, and so even if they did as they were trained, with only seconds to act they couldn’t have done anything before hypoxia set in. The cause of pressure loss couldn’t be determined, but checklists and what to do in cases of pressure loss were improved upon. A truly tragic yet fascinating case.
This was the source of much speculation for those of us in the industry. Most emergencies, rapid decompression among them, begin with memory items to be performed without hesitation or reference to checklists. In the case of a rapid decompression, these items would have included the donning of oxygen masks and initiation of an emergency descent. This led many of us to surmise that the pressurization system had been mismanaged or emergency procedures and/or troubleshooting procedures improperly performed before it was too late.
Payne was the reason I started watching golf. How awfully tragic this was.
Totally gonna save this for the morning while I’m waiting at the airport.
this scenario is why you make sure you don your own oxygen masks before helping someone else with theirs 😉
Oh I remember seeing the air crash investigation episode on this. Turns out putting the Oxygen masks on first is the most important thing. It changed a lot about how the lists where created
Hypoxia is at least quick and somewhat peaceful. As a way of death.
I saw this story on Air Crash Investigation. Fascinating and tragic in equal measure. You did a fantastic job as usual covering this. Nicely done. I really enjoyed it.
🤔 The first clue of what happened was what the fighter jet pilot saw, a frosted window in the cockpit, I suspect the sudden loss of cabin pressure happened in the cockpit, the pilots likely had no time to react and were rendered unconscious in seconds, and likely the rest of those on board. That’s really terrifying.
And the one factor that made it inevitable was the checklists…
When the cabin altitude warning horn sounded, the checklists stated that troubleshooting of the what is causing the warning horn should be done first.
After this incident those checklists were changed so that before any troubleshooting is to be done the flight crew must put on oxygen masks 1ST & foremost.
@@brianwong7285 No, those were changed after a similar incident with a Helios flight that lost cabin pressure. The flight was short enough that the investigators had audio from the CVR that let them know the reason the pilots didn't don their masks was because they defaulted to their training and started from the top of the checklist, donning the masks was nowhere on that list, so it was mandated that all checklists for cabin pressure warnings have "Don oxygen masks." as step one.
I doubt the loss of pressurization was sudden, it would be incredibly hard to miss that all the air was instantly knocked out of you and your eardrums are bleeding. When that happens, you don't need a checklist to remind you you need to breathe, you just grab your oxygen mask and put it on, then descend ASAP. With a slow leak, you would not realize anything is wrong without an alarm or keeping an eye on cabin pressure. You just gradually become kinda "drunk", then you lose the ability to do the most basic task but you don't realize it, you're likely feeling pretty happy. Then you fall asleep. Then you die.
@@seban678 It's interesting that one window had no condensation: perhaps one passenger grabbed their mask in time and lived long enough to wipe the window clear?
The bronze statue of Payne Stewart at 8:20 is at the Waterville Golf Links in County Kerry, Ireland. Payne played there frequently and had just accepted the Captaincy of the golf club shortly before his death. It’s a wonderful golf course.
Perfect time in Australia....not too late, hence not as scary, yet completely fascinating. Cheers
It really is. I had literally just finished preparing dinner when I got the notification for this video
Fa Shiz my fellow Aussies 🇦🇺 🇦🇺 🇦🇺
As someone else already said this is similar to the Helios disaster where the cabin failed to pressurise, with similar results on a larger scale. Very eerie.
The problem with Hypoxia is that it can make you feel euphoric and think that nothing is wrong then you just fall asleep. I don't believe it was an explosive decompression, had it been, the most likely first action would have been to put on oxygen masks. A slow decompression over time would not be noticed until an alarm sounds. Wether it was a leak or the pilots (like in the 522 crash) didn't turn on the pressurizing switch the outcome was the same.
Hypoxia is something taught to all student pilots while getting their private pilot license.
100% agree. rapid d doesn’t really fit, especially if the F-16 pilots reported that the fuselage looked intact.
The ghost plane. Crazy how altitude can incapacitate people so quickly. It's also curious that the pilots didn't use their oxygen masks...perhaps they weren't working? Glad nobody on the ground was hurt!
Probably was too quick to even react
And I think there’s something about your body not be alerted to hypoxia
Yeah the idea that you can just not notice something so critical to your survival…. Horrifying
There was a similar incident in 2005 when a 737 carrying 121 passengers and crew crashed because of oxygen starvation. Interesting thing that happened here was that at least one of the flight attendants managed to stay conscious long enough to make his way to the cockpit and try regain control of the aircraft but by then the plane had run out of fuel and he couldn’t save it in time. All 121 passengers and crew were killed
The investigation found that the pilots didn’t realise the pressurisation system was set to the wrong setting and so had been flying unaware they were slowly coming under the effects of hypoxia
Passenger oxygen only lasts 10 minutes, pilot oxygen lasts 30 minutes. It's meant to only keep you alive to get you down to a lower altitude where you can breathe, nothing more.
What I like about this channel is that it doesn’t revel in the morbid parts. It pays respect to the victims and focus mostly on them and sympathize, rather than sensationalize gore and death.
Tuesday morning would not be the same without Fascinating Horror. I'd never heard of this tragedy. What is most sad is how it will never be determined
I got lost in the woods at my teacher's farm that day. I remember my parents telling me about it when they were driving me home after our class returned to school. Payne Stewart was one of my favourite golfers; it was such a tragedy.
I remember when this happened. Thankfully they did not suffer and no one on the ground were in the jet's path. I also remember the military pilots were ready to force the jet down to avoid it hitting any populated areas.
As a Texan, and daughter of an avid golfer, this event came as a tremendous shock. The location of the crash is about as perfect as could be hoped for and the fact all aboard were already deceased made the news easier to bear. Thanks, as always, for your respectful treatment of this unfortunate incident.
I’ll never forget this one .. MBA classmates and I were in a finance class at University of Florida in Gainesville, FL, when we learned of the possible ‘ghost plane’ carrying Payne Stewart … it had essentially flown directly over us in Gainesville as it departed Orlando, possibly having stolen those souls as it was flying directly above us.
In ‘99 we had our laptops & the internet in the classroom (yes, yes - it wasn’t necessarily a given yet that we would have internet service in all classrooms but we did have laptops for class) so we learned about it live. Very chilling feeling.
I think the carrier was Sunjet … and the cause was possibly a maintenance guy shutting off something to do with the pressurization so that the pilots were not aware, I think… I’ll have to look again.
RIP to those lovely souls.
Payne Stewart is actually who my dad named me after (my middle name is Payne). Stewart was his favorite golfer and my dad wanted to honor him. Super cool seeing a video about it, as sad as it may be.
What a beautiful letter from the family to the land owner who created a memorial. People who conduct themselves with ultimate class in the aftermath of tragedy are heroic in my eyes.
I remember hearing about the infamous 1959 plane crash with Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens, and The Big Bopper (J.P. Richardson). They just wanted to finish up their tour, their tour bus had broken down and had no heat, and Ritchie Valens was fighting off a bad cold.
I'm very grateful I can assume none of them knew what was happening. The alternative is simply unimaginable. Thank you, Fascinating.
Worst case someone knew for about 10 minutes, as a pilot with oxygen would have fixed it, and 10-15 min on passenger oxygen. After that disorientation followed quickly by peaceful sleep, forever. Thst isn't as bad as it could be and that's worst case.
@@75ur15 Would depend on the aircraft configuration. I am not sure if pax ox was standard on the early Learjets, and if it wasnt whether they would have had them on that particular aircraft as an option. I used to fly a Merlin IIIB that was built in 78/79. We were usually between 21,000 and 24,000 and IIRC the cabin didnt have any oxygen for passengers. Only Pilot / Co-Pilot oxygen next to our seats for emergencies.
@@raymarshall6721 true, my meaning is that was worst case longer possible consciousness, without 1mon tops
I was home on maternity leave when this was breaking news. I followed the reports as they came out. My husband really liked Payne Stewart especially since he was known for being a real gentleman, on the course and off. He heard about it on the car radio coming home from work. The video on the evening news was awful.
The only good thing people could say about that flight was that all aboard very likely died of hypoxia long before the crash, never going through the terror of knowing that they were going to die horrifically. Unfortunately for the families, all they could do was wait for the plane to literally fall out of the sky.
The fact that they were able to determine the loss of cabin pressure in the cockpit based on the frosted windows is quite interesting; a quick and brilliant deduction. I got chills when he mentioned that the plane had lost cabin pressure and everyone would have been rendered unconscious in a matter of minutes. The concept of a ghost plane is just terrifying. The fact that they likely all died from oxygen deprivation long before the crash is relieving. It is a much more humane way to go than a horrible death by plane crash. Still, it is so bizarre to think that the plane just maintained a path for so long with no living person on board. I wonder if there was an acute moment of awareness about what was going on before they passed out or if they just simply, peacefully feel asleep.
While the circumstances are quite different, the description of the plane smashing into the ground with such force that much of it was lodged into the ground reminds me of the SilkAir Flight 185 disaster. Plane crashes are truly nightmare scenarios. I'm glad no one on the ground was injured. Rest in peace to all of those aboard.
Just like MH380, autopilot can fly the plane for a long time, then finally give up.
I remember this clearly, it was all over the news here in Europe, even while the plane was still in the air. And despite not being a golf fan, even I knew Payne Stewart. While I would not wish such a fate on any1, it just somehow seemed to hit extra hard, that it would happen to such a brilliant personality, who even through the tv screen spread life and cheer.
This is why I am so intrigued by true horror stories: I always seem to find something I never even considered to be possible. Not that I though it was impossible. I just literally never considered it. It's like, the disaster at Lake Nyos in Cameroon or the Tunguska Event, and now the concept of a ghost plane. Reality can really do a lot to fuel one's imagination.
I can well remember following this developing tragedy on ESPN Radio while at the office; as the narrator said, it took time before they knew for sure that Payne Stewart was on board. A great loss for all of their families.
Id totally forgotten about this event, it was a massive story at the time.
Well done and as always, extremely respectful. Thank you for bringing such tragedies the recognition and compassion they deserve.
I remember watching an episode of Air Crash Investigation, in which they were talking about this very same crash. Just as bizarre as it was tragic, if you ask me.
I'm from South Dakota and my parents were big fans of Payne Stewart. My grandparents lived somewhat near the crash. I was only 12 when this happened but I remember what an impact it had on many people. Thank you for sharing!
While visiting PHX,AZ in '99,we attended the Phoenix open. The 16th hole is a madhouse! The entire crowd sang "Happy Birthday" to Payne Stewart as he approached the tee. The good will & positive vibes and energy were palpable. I feel truly blessed to have been present at that wonderful moment. SMH. RIP!
4:47 That's Jean Chrétien, the prime minister of Canada in 1999. Michael Ignatieff was the leader of the opposition.
Interestingly, I worked on the team at Garmin that designed a system to prevent these kinds of tragedies.
This case is often cited at the reason for Garmin's invention, called "Emergency Autoland". I know you like to cover how these tragedies impact new laws and regulations and thought that was maybe an interesting tidbit you might not know about.
Emergency autoland is designed to recognize when a pilot has become incapacitated (through hypoxia or anything else) and will take over control of the aircraft and land it at the nearest suitable airport. It's seriously cool, and directly influenced by this tragedy.
well its not always implemented
@@Blox117 well Garmin just released it last year so no, it wasnt on this plane from the 90s
@@ApexIsBae i mean to say, that it is not always implemented
You missed a very important part of the investigation. It wasn't just bad luck, but rather poor structuring of the procedures in the flight manual. For a sudden loss of pressure, the first step on their checklist wasn't dawning their oxygen masks, which is what fucked them up. This eventually got changed afterwards as a result of the incident, if I'm not mistaken.
Correct!
What's with the F bomb?
@@JohnnyAngel8 what ???
@@JohnnyAngel8 fucked up screwed up messed up - if you are sensitive to bad language you should avoid the internet
@@LPCLASSICAL I don't think so.
Remember that very well. The plane flew right over my grandmother's town in northwest Iowa. We went to see the memorial years later in South Dakota. Payne was a great guy and golfer. Thankfully they passed away before hitting the ground. Rest in peace all on board.
I live about 3 hours from the crash site. I never heard about this before. I was a child when it happened.
So well done. Respectful. Facts.
100%
Prayers to those who lost their lives, and to the family who've had to endure this pain.🙏
Payne Stewart was such a memorable character. I remember seeing this on the news when it happened.
If you want another fantastic Ghost Plane story, check out Helios Airways, Flight 522. One of my favorites.
Another excellent video from FH. Thank you sir for your time and consideration in your handling of sensitive matters. Blessings to you and your followers 💚
I remember this clearly. Those 4 hours of fuel seemed like an eternity wondering where it would go down. I always wondered if the plane had cabin pressure alarms go off in the past causing the crew to disable it or perhaps during maintenance. Makes sense there was no alarm given no request for a low altitude came from the crew. Always a slim chance of a crew member disabling it as well.
this happens so many times, they need to have an extra loud voice alarm to warn the pilots and stewerdesses about low oxegon, so they can put the gas mask on right away. There was an alarm on the recorder but the pilots probably didnt know what it was and wasted valuable time to figure it out. The alarm should say "low oxegon" that way they know what the problem is.
Probably cost 100 dollars to put an alarm in, but for some it might be too much to spend.
My adopted grandfather knew Mr. Stewart, and I had met him once in 1997 when I was 6. Really nice guy, and when he passed away my grandfather was in tears. Sad way for someone to die, but at least there was no fear as everyone was (hopefully) still knocked out before the crash.
Your videos are just superb, man. Never stop!
I always look forward to your videos. I had just learned about rapid depressurization causing condensation earlier today, so it immediately came to mind when fog was mentioned. I hope it was quick and peaceful for them.
I remember this story vaguely. My dad heavily followed golf at that time and LOVED Payne Stewart.
Every one of your episodes is stellar. I really enjoy your channel. Such a sad loss for all the families and friends. I hope they are all resting in peace and that the families have found peace as well.
I was driving 7 hours from Charlotte NC to the Carolina Coast when this happened. My dad had just passed away and I was going to clean out the house, so I was not in the best mood. Every radio station along those 300 miles was following the situation. I wondered how something like this could happen.
What a tragic incident; between this and the Helios crash, I've always wondered if it was possible to have some sort of mid-air rescue system, basically a plane like a Hercules or other transport/tactical airplane capable of intercepting the ghost / incapacitated crew plane and physically taking it over with some kind of grappling system, either to deliver an emergency crew inside or to guide it to a controlled unpowered landing. A few aircraft stationed at key points, like Search and Rescue are now, could do this and they'd be good military / emergency exercices to perform.
At the very least, even if the crew was beyond saving, they could've been given a respectful burial and the cause of the accident could've been determined more readily. The people on the Helios flight might even have been saved by such a system.
Hi. Could there be a way to access cruise control?
Wow. I worked as a newspaper reporter in Detroit when this happened. This was a story that really had people on pins and needles that day. No one knew where the plane would lane. Such a sad event.
Born and raised in Dallas, TX and now in S. Dakota for 3 years. Lived in London for 3 years also. Feels right. Love!
Absolutely horrifying that you can effectively die within 3 seconds of a random air leak in a plane. Just reinforces my deathly fear of airplanes...
Not 3 seconds. Around 15 seconds.
You can die instantly in a car crash, but still I get your point. Life is just unpredictable that way.
Aircraft are the safest way of travel in the world. Your more likely to die on your way to the airports than the plane itself. I do understand you fears though.
@@pipp_988 Not much of a difference and even if the 3 seconds stated in the video was wrong one would be under the effects of hypoxia right away and having experienced it I can say it is not fun.
@@TariqHlayel I have a real fear too but this is actually what I chant to myself “safest mode of transport” and I also remind myself the air stewards and stewardesses aren’t getting danger money for the job. I do however know I am completely irrational 😂
How terrifying. Those poor air men that had to fly alongside those people unconscious knowing they’re alive and possibly having to shoot down the small passenger plane had to be so hard
I believe they would’ve died long before the crash.
@@neilkurzman4907 Thank you, I’m not really sure how it all works up there with cabin pressure and whatnot honestly, i just hope it was peaceful for them
@@litneyloxan
Basically what happens is your blood has more oxygen than the surrounding air. So as you breath you are removing oxygen from your blood.
This channel makes Tuesdays happy.
your editing skills just keep getting better, and the care you put into it does not go unnoticed, its such a breath of fresh air
I remember this, what a crazy and tragic case!
You and me both!
I remember being in northern Michigan that day and hearing about this on the radio. I enjoy golf, but I was never a big Payne Stewart fan. Nevertheless, it was a sad incident and a big loss to the golf world.
Thank you for uploading FH, quality content as always.
Another great video. Thank you! I appreciate the way his colleagues honoured the late golfer in the following tournament
you are the only channel i have a notification bell for lol watch straight away haha
Good morning 🌞 and thank-you FH 😊
He was a self-admitted jerk early on in his career, but became a great man as his heart warmed as an adult. That's been his effect on me; change is difficult but 100% worthwhile. Thx Payne. The world misses you.
So happy to see you posted, I had good timing with getting ready today🥰
Given the number of these ghost plane accidents that we've had, I do wonder if it would be worth adding a routine to modern autopilots to cover it. Something along the lines of "If loss of pressure: after 10 seconds check to see if pilots are responsive. If not, descend to 10,000ft (minimum safe altitude for area if higher) and hope the pilots recover consciousness."
Quite a few have this. Emergency decent mode. With the aircraft I'm referring to, it will start a turning decent down to around 13500.
Oh goodness, what are the odds that the landowner where the plane met its final fate would have been an avid golf fan. That's just extraordinary, I mean really just think of it. Golf is not what we would generally think of as a universally beloved sport. It is it has almost always had a reputation of being a game for the rich and the idle, but that's not even necessarily true anymore, nor was it then. But I still think that's just bang up extraordinary, and what a nice and generous person to do what he did with the memorial. Some people are pretty special, kind of gives you hope in a time where some of our own Congress persons spend every single day seething with hatred, attempting to legislate the theft of our freedoms and rights and doing absolutely nothing to help the American people.
Golf is kind of a big deal around Aberdeen, SD (bigger town 20 minutes away) and a lot of people who work/school here in Aberdeen, live in surrounding communities like Mina or Richmond. The high school even has a golf team. Mina and Richmond are also lakes, so it does draw some of the more affluent people to live there. A lot of the farmers have had land there for ages too.
This may be a day old, but I highly recommend covering the 2011 Reno Air races. One of the planes collided into the crowd.
There's a video that shows the exact moment the collision occured. It's terrifying.
I just love your content! It always makes my day! Thank you for your content!!!