Best Practices for Swales
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- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2019
- This Q&A is pulled from a collection of questions posed to me by students of my Online Permaculture Design course (PDC). Learn more with my free four-part Masterclass series, here:
www.discoverpermaculture.com/...
Question:
Will you please reiterate swale best practices here? While there are circumstances which would change things what is the "rule of thumb" for how deep and wide to make them? How far apart to space them, and how to plan ahead for eventual downslope saturation? Will the bottom swale always eventually transform into a wet terrace?
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About Geoff:
Geoff is a world-renowned permaculture consultant, designer, and teacher. He has established permaculture demonstration sites that function as education centers in all the world’s extreme climates - information on the success of these systems is networked through the Permaculture Research Institute and the www.permaculturenews.org website.
About Permaculture:
Permaculture (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permacu...) integrates land, resources, people and the environment through mutually beneficial synergies - imitating the no waste, closed loop systems seen in diverse natural systems. Permaculture applies holistic solutions that are applicable in rural and urban contexts and at any scale. It is a multidisciplinary toolbox including agriculture, water harvesting and hydrology, energy, natural building, forestry, waste management, animal systems, aquaculture, appropriate technology, economics, and community development.
#permaculture #swales #waterharvesting
Geoff thank you for sharing your experience and wisdom! The world is richer because of people like you.
I live in the Sonoran desert in Arizona. Geoff's teachings are enormously helpful. I'm using all native plants to create a cooler greener area. Mostly because I don't want to introduce invasive species into a delicate balanced ecosystem. The Tanto national forest is less than 4 miles away. My neighbor's scrape their land. It's ugly and is eroding. Hoping to educate them to permaculture living in harmony with our environment.
Were you able to cut in a swale?
This stuff should be taught in schools and especially at ag colleges!!
johndon74 yes I wish this was in school and ag colleges use only industrial methods
My Ag and Hort School ( pre college or degree level) taught this, especially for market gardening and orcharding which benefit from shade and moisture retention and often have to catch overland runoff and the sediment in it. as well as effect irrigation.
@@anamokena-nicol4247 which school is this? Would be interested in learning how they integrate it into traditional curriculum. I'm am agroecology student and I'm constantly frustrated with the industrial focus of most ag programs.
@@stevebreedlove9760 In NZ, try Lincoln University and Telford for course integration (our courses were mixed sciences, applied and trade/industry standard credits as well as traditional education credits) , incorporating topography, soil science, managing run off (and pollution) and preventing land slips etc is a pretty important part of any science studies that require messing with the natural ecology of the earth as well as civilisation...I think Fonterra and definitely Wrightsons /AGNZ still teach the same thing to adult learners who work the land etc, federated farmers etc., all if them definitely incorporate ecology as well as we have so many laws against pollution and over-use, exploitation etc in NZ and Australasia, if you have no luck, hit me up and I will do some digging for you.
YT is my college
Thank you for all your great work and information..This is a great legacy.
You are the god of permaculture geoff lawton i love love your videos and info cant get enough keep it up mate
all this seems like common sense that I already knew BUT it is really good to hear it reiterated to confirm my thoughts . thank you Geoff for taking the time to explain
Wonderful. Really good
Fantastically explained Geoff. I didn't even know what a swale was until i watched this lol.
Cheers Leigh.
I don't understand 100% of the vidéo because y'am french but it is a Real pleasure to leasten and learn with Geoff .
Thanks
Les sous-titres anglais sont de qualité donc tu as juste à les traduire automatiquement en français et tu pourras comprendre (le seul mot non traduit est swale qui veut dire noue/fossé).
Hi Geoff, I have been thinking a lot about swales and I live in very flat prairie in Canada. The land was originally wetlands. The wetlands provided protection to the plants from both flooding and drought as they acted like a sponge.
In Gaia's Garden, Hemenway said that the Aztecs built empana's, or mounds in their wetlands which they grew crops. This is like the mounds which you described. I would love to put in a wetland empana system one day. I have to keep talking to people to make this happen. Thank you for your teachings and inspiration.
Could you do a video about keyline: limitations, uses benefits
Is great seeing things working the way they are suppose too. Gives those of us just starting good idea what can expect two or three or more years down the road.
"Multiple rules for multiple thumbs"
lol I like that
Needed to know that for my hilly land!
Thanks Geoff, very interesting stuff.
I think it was one of your videos or someone else they were pumping the water uphill from the bottom so that the water would cycle through the property over and over... that's really cool
All this info is so necessary thanks for sharing
Always inspiring thank you
I want to learn more about how swales are tree growing systems!!! What are best practices for using swales to prevent erosion on steep slopes? Especially in semi-arid climates where the rain comes all at once? Thank you!
Desde España. Muy interesante sus enseñanzas, gracias!
I dug a long tiny 8” deep swale across our field a few years back, just below the “key point.” Now during flood conditions we have a spring bubbling out of the ground that runs for a couple days after the rains stop. I’m thinking that right below this spring is a good spot for a clump of Willows or a couple of red alders.
Did you put them in? How is it going?
No, it’s not a priority spot because we have a long fenceline bordering the road so I’m still planting most of the trees over there to create privacy. Eventually hopefully. I’d like to dig a micro pond there but the part of the field that gets mowed is already bumpy enough, so it’s a trade-off. Maybe I’ll make a on-contour very shallow ditch to spread out the force of the water and stop it carving lines through the grass. Thanks for the reminder :)
@@przybyla420 You are welcome! And thank you for the update.
I bet just a little bit of that swale project would go a long way for your whole place if you just start… and maybe it won’t be so much work.
I'm Swalieing up all the permaculture I can and Geoff's voice makes me happy Geoff say Food Forest Say it say it … ahh so soothing off to watch What is a Food Forest .. Again .. maybe ill put it on loop FOOOOD FOREST Time Yall lets gooooo...
😁
Por fin lo entendí! Aunque me costó el inglés, ahora lo tengo medianamente claro! Salvo por lo de calcular la pendiente de la pendiente, para saber la pendiente de la espalda de la zanja! A estudiar el Rise y el Run! 🤦♂ Cuanto dolor de cabeza da la permacultura! 🥴 Thank you very much, explanatory master class!👏👏👏👏👏👏
💡🌟✨❕❕❕ 🗯 I just realized, listening to this explanation here, that learning about how Permaculture works is a bit like learning a new language and culture.
At first it seems incomprehensible, and all you can do is just keep listening and grasping at tidbits that you can understand vaguely. As you keep listening and immersing in the language, the teaching videos etc, you start to connect more dots, and the words and concepts become more an more familiar, until you start to cruelly understand what is going on pretty well!
I am thrilled with this idea, because I always felt permaculture was out of my ability to understand, and now I don’t! It will become understandable and applicable as I immerse myself in its ways through these wonderful videos at the very least.
my dream would be to have a food-forrest permaculture wetland garden.
Big fan of the videos, been watching to help plan my retirement property. Would like to see a video talking about dealing with invasive species in Tennessee or Kentucky area. Also would love to see a video of Geoff visiting the forest man of India.
*_The problem is the solution._* What special ability does the invasive species have ? It must be quite good at something ? nitrogen fixer ? Would 2 goats get them down (with a little bit of human help, they use them to restore pastures - see Woming PBS videos. Would chickens eat it - or other fowl. Would ti be firewood.
Plenty of good compst material ?
In Australia they use goats to control the brambles in an Ecalyptus forest ((lots of them). They increase fire risk even more.
Humans had to help because there was not gtting in even, but they cleared a path used large borads, placed them on the heaps of living thorny twigs and brances and stepped on the boards, Those compressing the thicket a little bit, enough that it became underground the goats could step on.
The first round was goats 2 months, the goats like to eat the younger leaves and the trample on the shrubs also disturbing them.
you do not kill blackberry but it is a major disturbance.
The next year the same goat herd (maybe 6 animals ?) neede less time maybe 4 - 6 weeks. In the year after 3 - 4 weeks were enough. The yearly onslaguht weakended the blackberries.
If it is grass (bermuda is infamous). In a garden setting if possible one deep digging, or suffocating it under tarp. Then carton, then heavy mulching and BORDERS. Charles Dowding talks about borders - a video of how to set up a no dig garden.
That is the (market) garden approach, it depends if it is a garden or a larger operation.
There are trees like Walnut or bamboo (it is a grass, but never mind) that do not allow growth of other plants. The debris of bamboo suppresses weeds - or plants that would be intentionally put there. The shadow of trees can suppress unwanted plants.
So one could create a dense but diverse plantation and favor the trees in the beginning. At some point the unwanted plants (and all others) will die off for lack of sunlight. Later the forest could be thinned out.
Is there any plant that grows even faster than the weed (but is easier to terminate by a human if they chose to, or it is useful so the work of managing it, is not in vain because it is alos a harvest).
If it is a tree or big bush one could harvest them. And treat it as self replicating / self planting robust resource.
Please do a video on the benefits and best plans for incorporating hemp. 🙂
Hello Geoff, i love your videos very much! I have on question please: I saw in your swales videos and also in one of the PDC courses you taught with Bill that Old springs, streams and even newly formed rivers can appear when using swales, dams and ponds properly for water catchment. My question is: as the water is slowly infiltrating in huge amounts, how do you prevent a newly formed stream to appear where you don't want it? Thank you in advance for your insightful answer! Keep going Geoof, i love what you do!
Best pratice
What type of bamboo was that? I liked that it is multi use being able to be eaten and over time used for timber.
Rise to run is mainly due to the alphabet. As is many duel words
What does he mean by "recharges spring lines" ?
this video is awesome, i wish i could see a "doing a swale with geoff lawton" :o
A spring line is a place where a spring exists under the ground, which enlarges as water accumulates underground. The spring itself emerges at the surfaces where the land changes level.
What about temperate areas with high water tables (at least during wet years like this and last year), flat land, but sandy soils? Our biggest issue is keeping some water near the surface for our garden because it likes to just go straight through the sand base into our aquifer (SW Michigan). Would it be better to do something like a Hugel swale?
Part-Time Permies high mounded swales on flat sandy country achieve 2 production potentials in on cheap move. Well drained mounded tree planting contours and seasonal wetland swale canals for ducks and aquatic productive plants like wild rice.
In drier climate why would you not want deeper swales vice wider ones? I would think we would be going for reduced water surface area to minimize evaporation.
Could we put a boat in the flooded swale?
Great video, this topic is so often addressed too simply. My property 1:1.5 is typical grade, wet temperate, heavily forested. I use logs, waste otherwise, as waterbars instead of cutting the soil. Fill above the logs with arborist chips and plant into them. Erosion control and improving clay soil is more important than storing water. Thanks again
Would you like to have a site in the uk you can play with?
Alguém pode disponibilizar legenda em inglês.
Do swales work on the light highly porous sandy, soils eg in Perth WA? We had 74mm over 36hrs recently and it soaks straight down. I can't see any advantage in swales on my 5 acre gentle slope.
You need to ad organic matter to your soil to increase its water holding capacity. If the slope you‘r talking about has no erosion problem you might not need any swales at all, but slowing down the Surface run off and increase water Infiltration on certain Spots eventually Leads to a nice „microclimate“ in the soil wich you can take advantage of if you want. Do not forget that Swales can also be used to Guide the rainwater to dryer areas like Yeoman used to do with his keyline method.
There are two advantages for filling swales with (for example) woodchips in sandy soils. It acts like a sponge to hold the water for longer. Then it can create mycelium in the organic matter- which for tree growing systems, reduces pest infestations and makes healtheir trees.
In your situation rather than thinking so much about recharge, since the water seems to be mostly disappearing underground and downslope quickly, or very deeply, you actually want to think more about keeping it near the surface in the form of biomass. So that's when you consider swales as a tree growing system. Yes, you will need mulch to hold the water around the tree roots while they are growing, or guilds meaning grasses and faster growing biomass that will work together with the trees while they get bigger. Then, during your rain events the swales eventually morph into a treed area. Swales are part of creating accelerated ecosystem evolution from dry to green again.
@@jenniferspring8741 This is what we do on our sandy-soils arid hillsides; we create on-contour deep wood-chip paths, with plantings down-slope; sometimes we excavate the bank very slightly(handwork) in the steeper areas.
We replenish the chip bed "swales" every third year or so. Most plantigs can now survive our seven month dry period with the help of the mulches, though we'll occasionally supplement with one watering during extreme heat of Summers.
I'm just averse to the expense and impact of machinery, and the worms and Gophers will churn the soils quite well, though we do miss out on fracturing the sandstone subsoil we would get from a chisel pass.
Is that Bamboo? How can one avoid bamboo to be invasive and take all the land?
What bamboo is that? I couldn’t quite catch what he said, and even listening to it again and again, I can’t seem to get it right so I can do some research on it :(
Bambusa Oldamii
What is the best time of year/ season to dig swales
Last year.
Depends on climate
why does it need to be long? Would it still be as effective if it's circular? And are you putting something underneath to hold the water in?
It follows the landscape, being whatever shape it needs to be to ensure the whole swale is at the same elevation, so the water pools along the whole swale rather than all the water flowing to the lowest point. It would only come out circular on flat ground or going around the outside of a hill. If you put something underneath to hold the water in then it defeats the purpose, as the idea of a swale is to allow the water to slowly soak into the soil where plant roots can get to it. If you seal it in then you will have a funny shaped dam, not a swale.
@@Berkeloid0 thanks :)
I want to ise swales, problem being i have a large amount of mosquitoes. How would you suggest to control this? I use a gold fish in the sheep trough to keep them down.
I should mention that we live in the mountains of NE Washington State USA. 28 acres in mostly timber. Between a zone 4-5. The areas going down the hill, about halfway (hill 1/10 of a mile) and out by the end of the driveway. The place that is a real problem is around the living areas. More of a grass zone. Using mint outside my sons son's shed hoping for help, maybe helped for the ants. We have been recieving warm/hot days then get a few moist days.
Swales don't hold water so are not a mosquito problem
Hi, How you can controll mosquitoes ? Because swales are great medium for them
Geoff has created a very biodiverse system that has any number of predators through the system. There would be a balance happening but they will be there. I've been up there a number of times. I don't remember mosquitoes being a problem but I do remember them being a problem at a property I stayed at a few kilometres from Geoff's place. The last 2 times, I was there, there wasn't any water sitting in the swales. It tends not to sit there and stagnate. It soaks in and plants would take up moisture. There could be evaporation happening although those swales are well shaded.
No, and if swales become breeding grounds for mosquitos the implemenation was done incorrectly (and maybe the swales are even a danger in your setting, the poor infiltration that allows the insects as evidence of a potential hazard for mud lides). -
A swale is a water _infiltration_ system, not a still pond. If you have a lot of rain and water coming in from overflow pipes, drops hitting the water surface and wind - it is usually too much action going on to offer good breeding conditions for mosquitos. They need _standing_ water.
If water is standing for longer time - they are not swales they are canals (in that case one would make sure to have niches where the predators also thrive). In the temperate climate zone one would have a shallow water zone with reed grass that the dragon flies need for their eggs. Problem solved. Plus of course _permanent_ water allows for a population of fish. constant moisture allows for frogs, or at least toads. But dragon flies are especially efficient.
you should not have standing water except after heavy rains (lots of action) and then the water disappears into the underground FAST, too fast for the mosquitos. If your swales are LEVEL (as they should be) the water does not stand, there are no tiny reservoires (even a few cups full would suffice) it is all soaked in. A swale is supposed to be moist under the mulch layer, but there are no collections of water as potential breeding ground.
Of course the moisture also promotes the animals that prey on insects.
The water is supposed to infiltrate within 2 days after a major rain stops. If not you need to improve the swales.
Are they covered by mulch and compost to improve the soil underneath and to improve infiltration ? Are they compacted for instance by using them as paths for vehicles or are they trodden down by animals so they do not soak up ? They _can_ be used as paths and be grazed, but not all soils and slopes allow for it, or the swale is not yet mature and secured enough to allow the heavy duty use.
Or is there impermeable underground. In which case a swale is a misapplication, and can become very dangerous.
An upper, water saturated layer could slide down on a layer of water that rests on an impermeable underground. That can be a devatating loss and very dangerous.
It has happened and even to people that were advised by very experienced folks
Sepp Holzer and the project in another state, she had a major landslide (onto a street) so a public safety hazard, and she went bankrupt. Holzer bought up the property and lives now there. He got it right in the Alpes - but either he did not "get" the situation in another climate zone (although not far away in distance, it is in a state that has the panonian steppe climate where that happened).
Or the woman did not execute the plans and he did not realize what kind of guidance an inexperienced and enthusiastic user would have needed, with that terrain and that underground. (I read claims that he did not even visit the property in person) - not sure if that can be true, that would be highly irresponsible as there was a part with a steeper hill.
He has steep slopes at the Krameterhof but seems to be in tune with the harsh and cool mountain eco system. On the other hand - IF an area i the mountains with a major slope was prone to mud slides it would have slipped 1000 or 300 years ago already. It is interesting that the failure was in a system that had very differnt climate, and soil conditions, and likely also rain patterns, than the one he was so successful in.
Ad he did a lot of great projects (or inspired people after the courses).
At the minium he accepted the design job (he was paid for the consulting workd) w/o being fully aware of his responsibility as advisor.
Geoff posted a video explaining exactly how to prevent mosquitoes. here it is: ruclips.net/video/60ZTIJi6tbI/видео.html
Can scales cause sinkholes?
This is very interesting. What happens after 7 years?
the system "stabalizes" and it becomes a sponge for aquifer and groundwater recharing
@@kwlweapons oh OK Thank you.
He also talked about sun cycles with the climate getter drier for 7 years and then wetter for 7 years. As he said, a very interesting statement from Bill.
Can sealed lead to an increased chance of landslides on steep slopes?
Swales not sealed. How I hate autocorrect.
Yes it could, with more slope and / or impermeable underground you have to be careful.
@@steveindia2439 You can edit your original comment too by the way. I often have to do that because of both autocorrect and a mistake on my fast typing… but mostly because I often time stamp my comments throughout the videos and can’t do it in one go.
No rule of thumb for distance between swales? "Given a swale base of 1-2m, the interswale space should be 3-18m. In the former case, rainfall would exceed 127cm, and the later it would be 25cm or less." pg 168 Permaculture A Designer's Manual - Bill Mollison. I have drawn up a scale form this to calculate spacing. I also take into account slope etc when choosing spacing. That's how I design swales in my systems. : )
For a 10 acre property would you think that a 1m by 1.5m be reasonable in wales uk?
It will depend on the degree of slope.
@@DiscoverPermaculture wow thank you for answering is there somewhere other than bill mollisons book on permaculture i can read up the degrees:swale width/depth? I cant afford the £200 it would cost me to buy it and i cant find it cheaper than that. Also can you see any glaring problems with using treated and filtered effluent in a tropical glass house black water cell?
@@601salsa How can you afford swasles if you cannot afford an expenditure of GBP 200 ?? Digging them by hand ? and you need a pipe drain as overflow backup, that also costs money.
@@xyzsame4081 the whole point of asking question is to get answers. Currently I have no money but once I sell my home I can afford to build swales, you dont know me, you dont know what is going on in my life, I would kindly ask that you dont make snap judgements when you dont know the situational facts. And to try and bully someone who appears to be struggling for cash shows exactly the kind of vile person you are. And by the way dont demean people who work hard even manual labour. It is possible to literally dig swales by hand using a spade. It costs $20k for a back home to buy second hand, to rent it isn't cheap either depending on what you want done, if a sale is small enough the actually by hand is easier and far cheaper. I am not put off by hard work. I have landscaped gardens before, moving 11 tons by hand.
mfw I have 500 sq ft of garden to work with in a shrub dessert
I don't think I'll have a swale as much as I'll have a tiny trickling stream. Luckily there are rocks everywhere I can put in the stream for more retention
8:40 what does he call the wet terrace? A chenampe canal???
AniishAu
🇲🇽 Chinampa, an Aztec agri system he dwells with in another Q&A video.
ruclips.net/video/Q1vHhl83aTk/видео.html
@@mariovizcaino muchisimas gracias amigo!
The bottom of the slope won't be saturated because the water above the lowest swale isn't flowing down.
If they have a lot of rain, that can happen. And Geoff said it does happen in certain settings. Wales comes to mind - i saw a video of a gardner, he has a paradise, but he has all in raised beds for improved drainage, the underground is jst too wet.
A light slope in Wales might well do with some drainage and the water collected at the lower point converted into a productive aqua system (fish pond). also growing certain trees that like so much water and do not mind "wet feet". Like willow or alder. Or lotus and mangroves.
Perhaps this is not something that can be answered without local knowledge....BUT I'm just wondering if anyone has an opinion about how to deal with this situation in order to not destroy the groundwater?
www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-13/groundwater-the-new-frontier-for-corporations/11593610
I think that this is mostly pretty flat land. Might swales save the day? And if so could grrrreeeedy big business remain viable if regulations insisted on having them?