Secret why MEDIEVAL people LOVED WHEEL POMMELS on Swords?
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- Опубликовано: 1 июл 2024
- Wheel pommels were one of the most successful and popular types of pommel on medieval swords, but why were they so much more popular then than now?
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Hi Matt, really Silly question here are you and Tod using opposite sides of the same set of doors as your video backdrop ???
LOL, I love the idea of that! But no, sadly... If he was next door then it would make a lot of things easier!
@@scholagladiatoria No it wouldn't, neither of you would get anything done. You'd be too busy theory crafting and gassing the hours away. 😂
@@XploreNorfolkBut they'd do it on camera and we'd watch it.
Well, I bloody love wheel pommels. I think one other thing about the disc shape is that it can be pretty wide - ie in its diameter - without having to be especially thick. So it can be visually very striking, with a wide profile and decent weight but slim enough not to get in the way of anything when it’s moving around. If that makes any sense at all…
I can't find these for sale anywhere...
"Do you have a minute", "I'll keep this brief."
Okay Matt, I'll put on the tea kettle and bake some cookies.
Hey now, 11 minutes is basically a brief overview of the cliff notes for Matt!
I was just coming back upstairs with a hot coffee before I clicked on play haha.
Nothing better to start the day with, than hot coffee and steel!
I was surprised he didn't say anything about the wheel pommel specifically regarding *edge alignment feel.*
When you're grappling or reaching for a sword you can't see, the wheel pommel lets you know as your fingers reach for it how you're going to hold it. The handle does it, too, but the wheel pommel really helps. Also, *if you're carrying it around,* the wheel pommel sits more flatly against your person compared to other shapes.
Agree, I thought knowing your edge alignment without looking would be a main reason to use a wheel pommel.
I agree as well. I moved from a scent stopper to a wheel pommel specifically for indexing while wearing gauntlets.
I think there's probably a happy medium that could be attained between a scent stopper and a wheel that would maybe be vaguely scallop shell shaped. The issue with wheel pommels is that there's a fairly harsh 90 degree angle right at the edge of your pinky finger. Sabers often have a similar problem inherently but get around it by just flaring out the grip a bit right before the transition to the basket ring
"and I have limited movement" Waves it around like it's an empty wrapping paper tube.
Haha, thought the same! :D
His sword muscles are well developed.
@@raydrexler5868 apart from that, he knows precisely how to move the sword around with minimal effort put in. If you wave it around like a baseball bat, no matter how strong you are, you will tire quickly. It's more aboute effectivity than about strength. Notice he turns the sword a lot around its point of balance, rather than truly "waving" with it, and that he uses his entire body to do so as well.
I'm reminded by your comments of the similarity to those early horseman's pistols that have those great big spheres on the ends of the handles. Good for pulling from saddle reliably in the thick of a battle.
Also good for whacking if you don’t have time to swap to your sword.
@@Specter_1125 True, true. Though given the balls - at least for the examples I remember seeing in museums - were typically not made of (or shod with) metal, I suspect that being able to use your pistol as a club is a side-benefit compared to the "not fumbling/dropping your pistol" main benefit.
@@pseudomonad in a pinch, blunt force trauma is blunt force trauma
@@Wastelandman7000 oh, yeah, I wouldn't want to be hit by one of those things! And sure, they can be used llke that in a pinch - like people clubbed muskets/rifles if bayonets weren't an option.I just meant, if that was the _primary_ purpose of the balls, they'd've been made a bit more weapon-like.
Though practice we found out that eventhough pear (or mushroom) shaped pommels on longsword are better for work with your left hand, round ones gives you extra feeling for the blade orientation.
Also the mushroom shape tends to hit you hard in the groin if the blade gots stucked in the doorframe while turning and it needs more attention while wearing
(My experties- I used to show the use of the swords in the museum of Prague. We were spending 12 hours a day training/ walking around the city towers carying our kits)
Never had a problem with wheel pommels. Can't imagine why some people don't like 'em. When I was young they were my idea of a stereotypical medieval sword.
I find they restrict my wrist movement and force me to use draw cuts. Maybe I’m not using correct form.
I do like the way they look.
Literally thinking the same thing
@phillipmargrave521 it may have also limited their use in historical battles, but the improved grip may have been decided to just be more important in life and death battles. Just like all designs, it's a balance between many factors to decide the design to use.
I've generally tried to avoid them since slicing my palm on one with particularly crisp corners (my club bought a bunch of new ones and I was trying it out for a session).
I think from memory it was from repeatedly doing cleeving cuts as a feed for my training partners and pulling the swing so I barely tap them was forcing the sharp corner into my palm.
My first medieval sword is a hand and a half sword with a wheel pommel, and I can tell you it is not very useful for longsword techniques.
I think a wheel pommel is the best because it doesn’t get caught in clothing and it’s comfortable to rest your hand on when it’s on your belt.
Yes and as Matt said, not being able to look down means it needs to be found by tactile means. When touching a circle you immediately know where your hand is in relation to it, and thus where the grip is. It's a very elegant and reliable solution.
Same. They have just about all the benefits of a sphere, but removing the sides also allows them to lay flatter and can help with indexing the edges.
@@Seppleberrythey were usually hollow. A lump of steel that big would put the point of balance too far back.
I agree that getting caught on things is an important concern that often gets overlooked.
Exactly my thought as well. It wont get caught on your other gear or get ripped out of its sheath by opponents withdrawing weapons etc. Also, your opponent countering your strike should glance off your pommel rather than hooking under it and maybe taking out your little finger.
Another advantage of wheel pommels is that they are pretty good for use offensively. Whether striking down with a hammer fist or straight out punch like a blackjack it will give a good bonk.
You mentioned the chaos of combat and for some reason I thought of a smoke-filled cockpit. In an aircraft cockpit they try to have the important switches & levers of different shapes so they can be found and identified by touch. So I wonder if having your sword have a distinctive pommel - the wheel - might be similar? In the heat of combat you're grasping for your sword and you know you've got it when you encounter a wheel.
Yeah, if you feel the rondel it's the dagger, if you feel the wheel pommel it's the sword, if you don't feel either it might be a canteen or a tube holding a letter (if Europeans did that).
@@novembermike512 Not usually during combat. Carrying your supplies on you is more of a modern military thing; Middle Ages armies tended to leave things like water supplies with the baggage trains and supply personnel.
@@nevisysbryd7450 Sure, but people didn't just carry swords in battle. You have to get there, you spend time just sitting around, etc. Just because you weren't expecting a fight doesn't mean the fight doesn't come to you, and that's when you'd need the daggers and swords.
If it makes sense now then it made sense then
I absolutely love wheel pommels. They are incredibly helpful with edge alignment.
I agree, using longsword with wheel and pear pommel, the wheel let's me use the palm to improve edge alignment. Also looks way cooler IMHO
Pizza wheel pommel! 😂🤣
@@Ealsur 🙌
@@kristianhartlevjohansen3541 Mmmmm... pizza sword.
@@KunstdesfechtensI raise you a burgher(burger) sword.
Haven't watched the video yet, but I'll say that in my experience in hema, rounded pommels are easier to grip and to control the sword with if you are using heavy or bulky gauntlets
they’re aerodynamically shaped for easier throwing… to end them rightly
Came to find this comment and was not disappointed!
Here for the meme 🫡
I was getting concerned. I was looking for it. It is now officially required.
A video dedicated to just breaking down the cultural aesthetics of a place/period to their approach to sword design would be really interesting!
I've also found wheel pommels to aid in edge alignment with single handed swords, especially in the handshake grip.
I used to hate wheel pommels on longswords until I made the effort to train with one. Now they are my favorite type. I think people who complain about them ergonomically probably haven't spent much time with them. If you don't like them aesthetically, then fair enough. But do give them a serious try. The offer a really secure grip and aid in edge alignment.
Yeah but I don't have difficulty with my edge alignment because I use fishtails.
Because they're wheely good, of course! I'll get my coat.
BOOOOO!
Your coat of plates!
That's a wheely good joke!
Yep
They also look very cool. Never underestimate the popularity of something people like the look of.
especially in medieval Europe.
Perfect circle hand smithed and polished? VERY fancy. Probably a smith's way of showing off their skill and toolkit, too.
Also, easily to bling. What it fancy looking, hammer a coin into the center
@@PJDAltamirus0425 not to mention those sexy Irish ring pommels
Paint it in your team colors. Gild with gold and engraving.
Amazing observation and finding! That makes total sense to me. Thank you for sharing this valuable information!!
Another amazing and informative presentation. Thank you.
I genuinely like the wheel pommel aesthetically. Round shapes are just simply pleasing. Never before now had I thought about the function of them for gauntleted hands or even just drawing the weapon from its sheath/scabbard.
I like wheel pommels on my longswords too. They're comfortable to grip with my off hand, and help index the edge alignment.
I have always liked wheel pommels. They give a nice feel for edge alignment, and are also great for the second hand on a hand and a half grip.
I love the wheel pommel on my arming sword. It doesn't impede my gauntleted hand in combat at all, yet it's perfectly weighted.
It also seemed to create a perfect "ball peen hammer" at the bottom of the fist where it protruded out just enough to knock the daylights out of somebody. Fascinating explanation and really quite brilliant in the context you've outlined. Great video. 👍
That'll help guide edge alignment too I'd think...
It totally does.
That's absolutely fascinating! I didn't know that!
I love how they loook and feel
I love your famous quick videos.
really interesting video thank you! in the future a video about pommel design, material, and use would be great (unless you have one and ive missed it...)!
Good video & keep it up ⚔️
I have two swords with wheel pommels. They are very comforting 😊😂
the Irish had hollowed out wheel pommels to lighten the weight of the hilt making the sword better at chopping
They did! I need to do a video on Irish swords soon...
Best thing about the wheel pommel is you can take it off, drill through centre& use it a as a spare skateboard wheel, that’s why they made em round, so knights could have dual usage
Informative video.
My thoughts have aligned pretty much with yours on the subject. I think the popularity of wheel pommels is due to the blend of functionality and aesthetics. On a single-handed sword, a wide pommel helps keep the hilt locked in your hand. It can also help with edge alignment. There are a number of styles that would function similarly, but the wheel is aesthetically pleasing - symmetry and balance that is eye-pleasing to a large number of people.
I find it really nice with longswords or feder for edge alignment
Thanks, Matt.
This came as a bit of a surprise to me; I tend to practice alone so I don't hear a lot of others' opinions on pommels, but I have a couple swords with wheel pommels on them and I love the wheel pommel for how it can secure a grip on the hilt both bare handed and gauntleted.
Your blued steel armor is so awesome.
Pommels are for function. (okay, form as well cause who doesn't want to look as cool as possible when holding a sword).
If you have an arming sword the function is counterbalance and ensure your ONE hand grip stays where you want it to be during use. Hence a wheel is very functional.
However for using a longsword with both hands we still have the counterbalance aspect - although functionally speaking if that was all you were using the pommel for you could have lead inserts under the grip - but we also have to allow for the fact you are controlling the sword with both hands.
Now your personal style may vary, but when I use a longsword I am less gripping the sword in my hands as gripping with my fingers, and I am gripping my lower hand on the pommel. When I move I am moving my hand around the pommel as required because that allows me better range of movement when compared to gripping 'hard' with my hands on the grip and only flexing through the wrists. I am also rotating around the long axis of the sword and with this style a wheel pommel would be fighting my hand movement.
So, longsword? Smooth onion style pommel for me.
Other swords? Well I am not going to be holding them with both hands, so... different situation.
Not saying this is 'technically' correct, but it is how I want to hold a longsword and none of my instructors have tried to correct me... yet :P
When I trained long sword, many years ago now, I had a training sword by Pavel moc with model name Talhoffer. (Though our club used Fiore,) It has a wheel pommel that felt like it was made for my hand. It just felt really comfortable and secure to hold in any technique that used a two handed grip. Especially in the side cut where you hold the sword close to your chest where you flip your grip on the pommel, it made a manouvre I thought would be hard really easy. The hand just effortlessly slid into place, really comfortably too.
However, why don't you like the gaudy colours? I think they are fabulous!
I prefer scent stopper on my longswords to use for gripping but have found on my arming sword it actually gets in the way of throwing a cut, the added width hits my forearm and throws off the cut whereas a disk pommel slips past without issue. In an extended handshake grip it allows you to hold the pommel in line with the wrist
The effects of a non-rounded shape is what i was wondering about having never handled one. Cool feedback
Never understood the dislike for wheel pommels. They sit in the hand nicely and allow easy alignment of the blade. Also help you to turn the sword thumb the blade. The HEMAShop bastard sword hole is also exactly sized to jam a decorative 20p in too.
I hope he keeps us up to date on that windlass sword. I really like the look of it
So in the medieval period there were a lot of wheel pommels going around!
There is something very aesthetically pleasing, to me, about a barn full of men in expensive armour. Any of those photos puts stills from any Hollywood epic you care to mention to shame.
Can't wait to buy that sword!
i guess its a a good way to have a good to grip counterweight that is a bit of protection as well ... and a great place to show of fancy decorations
You work with Windlass? That's super cool!!
great point!
I'm even surprised that this required a separate video.
When I first picked up an exact replica of a Scandinavian sword with a fairly large apple and a very small handle, I was amazed at how rigidly the palm was fixed in it. In fact, the palm is securely clamped between the guard and the pommel. It will be difficult to knock such a sword out of your hands.
I've never really like wheel pommels, but I do have a soft spot for brazil nut pommels which lock in your hand similarly to how you describe the wheel pommel in this vid, in fact a particularly fancy pair of swords made by Heron Armoury were commissioned by me for myself and my little brother, and they fit amazingly in the hand and sing when they hit things/opponents.
Brilliant!
It adds balance to swords and became a good look
I do like this idea a lot. Weapons coming free is a big issue IRL and in sparing like in some groups like the SCA. It's harder, and less safe in a fight in some ways, to have a trigger finger hold, or weapon retention strap for a sword as is popular in some groups. Using a pommel as the thing is a good idea.
Now as for me I find them to be keen. I tore all my gripping tendons long ago so sword grip size and shape matters a lot to my ability to fence at all. When it comes to wheel pommels; made right, on the right length grip, they're fantastic at helping me hold onto them. especially when canted ever so slightly to the side on single-handers.
I did actually break my finger once sparring using the wheel pommel on a longsword as a lever point. I took the other fellas pommel to the pinky by accident. Not fun at all, but till then it worked a peach!
I absolutely love round and ring pommels!
I don't know if they did it historically or not, but wheel pommels are also well-suited to mount something like a gem or medallion in the center, or for decoration like knotwork.
I noticed something similar to this whilst participating in a harnischfecthen tournament last summer. I was using my own dagger with a wheel pommel and had a much easier time finding it and drawing it than some of the other competitors who were using rondel daggers, simply because the wheel was bigger than the rondels
I would love to own one of these.
I have Albion Crecy War Sword with wheel pommel. I really like the pommel. It feels good in hand.
9:39-9:42 I agree. My favourite OC (Original Character) uses a sword with a wheel pommel.
2 points I would add: 1. Wet hand/sword wielding 2. Hammer type attack
I always preferred a wheel pomel on my arming sword! The wheel really keeps it in your hand!
I am a big fan of a wheel pommel on a bastard sword.
I literally push and pull on the pommel when maneuvering around.
Interesting how that pommel in conjunction with that gauntlet also seals off and protects the bottom of the hand.
I haven't tried wielding one, but I simply like the look of the wheel pommel.
A square pomel may have been more likely to catch on fabric - clothing, straps, etc. A round pomel doesn't have pointy bits to catch.
It seems they have some wheely compelling benefits. I'm sure people will come 'round to using them. Even if they don't, it's an interesting disc-ussion.
I use a wheel pommeled feder since hema gauntlents are similar to plate gauntlets, and I can feel my edge alignment through it.
I've used a lot of swords in fights, the wheel pommel is really working very well, eg in handling and have a nice feel and balance to it... There is a reason why there are so much of those around...
I love wheel pommels, to the point I've added one to my wooden training sword (that, like my training mates from the time, had nothing at the end of the handle)
I use a S&W 40 pommel. Good stuff always learn sumtang here
Ballpark before the answer. Its easier to balance a sword with a large pommel. Especially to fit an individual. They would also be easier to cast as well. So less work. It would also make it easier to index the edge. As it would fit the lower curve of a clenched fist. Allowing you to feel without looking, whether you have the blade correctly held.
Now I’d never wondered about this but once I saw the sentence I had to find out
HI Matt, how you doing, man is funny because the other days I was using my cold steel gladius machete that has a big plastic pommels and was most easy to control and cut with that pommel.
I love wheel pommels, but it might be what I'm used to. I think they feel great in the hand. Most of the replicas I own have wheel pommels. And, yes, they look great! Of course, I'm just a collector/backyard cutter, not a practitioner of medieval martial arts. However, I AM a visual artist, and usually depict non-Viking-era medieval-type swords in my art having wheel pommels. Not ALWAYS, but usually.
In my (admitteldly limited) experience, the flattened shape also helps with maintaining edge alignment. My small finger can tell the orientation of the pommel and thus the blade.
Great discussion. Thank you.
Do I have a minute? For you Matt I have as much time as you need. 👍👍
I use the enhanced competition magwell on my Glock for the same grip securement reason
Fascinating, I’d never considered how much gauntlet geometry would affect the ergonomics of sword construction. I’d always assumed it to be the other way around, having the armour accommodate the tools. Makes perfect sense that the developments would spread both ways.
Very Italian looking sword. Beautiful!
Next time you gather with the armored, film an ancient Roman military training exercise. I am pretty sure we would all like to see men and/or women in armor playing hopscotch.
A wheel pommel can be gripped with your left hand. This allows for reasonable two handed use of the sword if the situation needs it, or if the knight is simply too exhausted to wield it one handed.
Hello Matt! Directing Henry IV, Part I and I came across a minstrel song about Henry "Hotspur" Percy that refers to he and Douglas fighting with "swords of fine collayne" . Would like to use poem for the play. Could you tell me what "collayne" is? Can't seem to find any info. Thank you! Love your channel.
No idea if this is supported by any evidence from the time but I find that since wheel pommels stand proud of the hand where as pear pommels sit into the hand far more, its much easier to hit someone with a wheel pommel with a hammer fist compared to a pear pommel.
I think it can also be mentioned that the rounded shape of a wheel pommel might be less prone and likely to get caught on other pieces of ones equipment. Just a thought🙃
My suburito {heavy training stick} has a bulb on the endd of the handle. Helps when I'm tired and my grip starts to slacken... it's not meant to be there. But I made the thing myself out of a rail road sleeper.
I know when i was young I very much preferred non-wheel pommel shapes aesthetically. When i was drawing or drooling over swords i was too young to buy I would always favor scent stopper and fish tail pommels. I viewed wheel pommels as "generic" and "boring" and I think the swords in the Lord of the Rings movies influenced me a ton as well. Now, however, I adore wheel pommels and i think they make an amazing canvas for all sorts of personalized designs like solar symbols, symmetrical wheel spokes, faces or crosses. I saw a sword with medusa etched in the pommel and immediately thought of all the possibilities. Faces of saints or the virgin mary, faces of demons or gargoyles to appear frightening. Wheel pommels just have so much potential for personalization.
Question does it also add a balance to the sword for comfort and less strain on the hand and wrist?
Is it also the fact that you can use the pommel which looks like it has a skull crusher extending from the gauntlet?
Love your work.
Please do a video on the leather gloves they used. As a civilian, without a shield, sturdy gloves allows of gripping a enemy blade more easily, as well as protecting against cuts that would end the fight early.
I really like medieval color schemes. There’s an excitement quality and a feeling of love of life with those colors. Nowadays everything is either just a shade of grey or full-blown rainbow and glitter
.my experience with modern HEMA gloves is that wheelpommels facilitate better edgealignment. Now i dont know if this is the same with armored gloves, but i imagine it is.
Does the edge of the wheel pummel rub you hand abrasively? Or would it do so if you were striking and parrying? I can’t really tell if it would from the video, if you used it barehanded.
Can wheel pommels be unscrewed and rightly thrown?
y e s
I think the prettiest sub type of wheel pommel would be a hexagonal or octagonal shape. Those are lovely.
Are wheel pommels harder to do “right”? A lot of cheaper modern reproductions/ training weapons just have the most uncomfortable wheel pommels, whereas pear pommels are less likely to be actively annoying to hold even if not super well done.
I love this shape of pomel
but on my sword it loosen a bit and it is turning few degrees
what makes it even better
not slightly better but absolutly perfect
on next sword I go with pomell turn a little from the start :)
Seems like the wheel shape would help with edge alignment. Plus it seems it would be easy to find without needing to look at.