@@shanenolan5625 I mean the only reason that happened was the studio got the left over materials from Star Trek nemesis lol. It’s still impressive enterprise did as well as it did with a much smaller budget than any of the previous Star Trek series besides TOS
Note quite. They are kind of like the Turians from mass effect. They pride themselves as a society committed to service. There is a very strong martial element to that, but it is not the whole story. They are disciplined and well trained combatants to be sure, but not a warrior race per se.
@@benhobson3084If only the Andorians and the Tellarites got more attention in the shows and movies. Sure, we got some stuff from Enterprise, but it always feels like the four founding races feeling half empty throughout the Federation and Starfleet. I want to know how much they changed between Ent, TOS, TNG and the post-DS9 and Voyager eras and how they could have made interesting characters.
Boy, just imagine being some poor Cardassian trooper in the mud on Chintoka somewhere, sipping your Kanar in the trench, and you turn around and see 18:50 staring at you in the face... Yeah I'd be kinda scared too! Remans may not have been "cannon fodder" but damn it sucked to be a Reman. Certainly no room for weakness in that society. If you're strong, you might have a chance to make a slightly less awful life... if you're weak. You die. MOAR REMANS PLS! THEY NEED TO BE MORE THAN SPOOKY VAMPIRE THINGS!
@@poil8351 The 13th Order on Septimus III. A reserve unit, old men and walking wounded according to Martok. 500,000 lost. The loss of an entire Order due to Weyoun's indifference was the final nail in the coffin for Damar's loyalty to the Dominion.
I do have a head canon regarding the Remans post-Nemesis. Fair warning it will tie into Star Trek Online. Basically after the Senate got itself assassinated and Shinzon took over as Praetor, he authorized the Remans to basically attempt to become a semi-independent polity in the Empire establishing colonies and, essentially, shipyards. Taking advantage of the chaos caused by the decapitation of the RSEs government, and Shinzons death, the Remans expand aggressively, especially in shipbuilding. Their first project would be to resurrect the T'Varo class as a modern light Warbird(Basically it was the classic 22nd Century T'Varo hull wrapped around modern systems, including a new prototype light singularity core.) This design became so successful that even the Romulans adopted it post-Hobus to fill out their fleets. The second was a Frigate/light cruiser called the Hathos Class(the Reman skin of the Dhelan class from STO)This was less popular due to Romulan arrogance and the Empire getting back on it feet and starting to recover from the events of Nemesis. and favoring the Norexan/Mogai due to it being more powerful. Only once D'Tan established his flotilla(which would eventually become the Romulan Republic) did the Hathos(and it's Romulanized variants the Dhelan and Dhael classes) become more widely accepted. Finally their third design was to be a counter to the Romulans heavy warbirds(like the D'deridex and Kerchan classes) the Ha'apax Class By this point the Romulans had solidified back into a cohesive Empire and were starting to crack down on the Remans hard. So in an attempt to maintain independence they established some secret shipyards to build the Ha'apax. Unfortunately they only started work on a handful of hulls and had not completed them before the Empire and the Tal'Shiar dropped the hammer. D'Tan would learn of these partially completed ships and secretly complete them to serve as the backbone of his flotilla and later the Republic Navy(at least until defectors gave him access to several Scimitar variants to serve as flagships.)
I'd love to see a story where the Scimitar's "test runs" were during the Dominion War. The Scimitar simply left NO survivors, battlegroups simply disappeared.
I am just going to say it. Remens are Romulans. They are an offshoot. If you look at the Remen makeup it’s accentuating features that you see on Romulans and to a lesser extent Vulcans. That Nosferatu appearance is the pointed ears, northern ridges and green blood in a translucent skin tone. That’s why they have telepathy. It’s likely that when the Proto Romulan people landed in the Romulans system they established two colonies one on Romulus one on Remus. Why the Remens ended up as we see them is unclear. Perhaps Remus was a penal colony. The population being isolated on a planet with a harsh environment and a small isolated population likely accelerated mutation of features. There unique cultural differences likely the result of the both the evolution and potentially them being descendants of exiles or perhaps even a cult or more extremist sect inside the Romulan religion.
I always enjoy your videos. I figured the Remans weren't "cannon fodder" they were just "The Army". A way for the Romulans with thier smaller population to field a large Army.
Great episode (finally more on ground combat), I have to agree not using the Remans' skills and natural abilities seems like a waste. Issuing them imported carbines is a nice touch, it was built by the lowest bidder.
Quite a decent number of Dune visual comparisons made regarding the Remans. An intriguing overview expanding upon the various professions they could be found in, their troop structure, and how the Dominion War led to the events of Shinzon's servile coup.
What do you think dilithium crystals are used for specifically? If dilithium crystals are used to enable the extraction of useful energy from a matter-antimatter reaction, they may be as useful to Romulans as to anyone else. The annihilation of matter and antimatter releases gamma rays, extremely high energy photons that present some difficulty in converting to useful energy. Granted, humanity has had little incentive to yet try. Hawking radiation from low-mass black holes, such as those that might be found within Romulan starships, would be released as gamma radiation; the same product as in matter-antimatter reactors. It therefore follows that Romulan engineers might use dilithium crystals to produce useful power.
Now I want to see gladiatorial melee fights between Remans, Jem'Hadar, Klingons, Nausicaans, Ferengi with lightning whips, That super soldier in that one TNG episode, Gorn and maybe Borg Drones. I'm not sure who I'd put my gold-pressed latinum on...
Imagine Federation Caitian troopers. Their cat like senses allowing night time stalking, and if the Jem'Hadar tries to push them to ground, they'd simply be shredded by their claws.
Id argue romulus is not a democracy its an imperial Republic, an oligarchy or noble houses and military families, like the late roman Republic, political power is based on the military, ( the pretors power has always been the romulan fleet) they have the roman titles in a different order, pretor is like imperitor. ( commader in chief ) they have dynasties, the contining committee appears to be ment to ( continue) the imperial project, the expansion of the empire , and i suspect to conquer the federation and klingon empire
In my head canon , after the dominion war , their was an opportunity for peace, neral was overthrown, and replaced by herogen ( pardon my spelling) he promised the military war , they would need at least 4 or 5 years to rebuild thier fleet, and have replacement ships and personnel waiting, this was the best time the klingons were 5 or 6 years away from economic and military recovery, the federation lost half of star fleet in the war and were rebuilding and supported cardassia in a marshall plan type of way , they were also receiving war reparations, but the federation were rebuilding and there new fleet would be much more advanced and technology far superior to the pre war fleet which was aged , If the romulans didn't move by nemesis they would never have another chance, so 4 years later the military is ready and the remuns are willing to fight, the army and navy are ready and the pretor broke the deal and wanted the remans confined to remus and just maintain the cold war , Enough romulan fleet commaders knew what an asset the remuns were and they wanted the war they had been preparing for sinse the earth / romulan war , they were also tired of the senate, so a coup de tat , with a figure head ,
Good point about the Romulan demand for dilithium being low👍 I take it a Remen with telepathic/enhanced senses would make a better bodyguard than a 'standard' Reman. It would be good in Reman shock troops and elite Romulan troops trained together. After all, Romulus did not want a Sparticus emerging among the Remans. An overall good video.
There are examples of cannonfodder throughout history that I know of. 1st was during the Civil War where Grant sent troops up against a confederate fort at Cold Harbor that was armed with grapeshot lost about 18,000 men in total about 7,000 in the first half hour was a total suicide run, where he gained the nickname The Butcher Grant was well known for seeing his troops as disposable. 2nd The Soviets during WWII many were sent into combat without arms or munitions they were pretty much just sent to their deaths, if they retreated they would be shot by their own they were pretty much the definition of cannon fodder. 3rd was Vietnam with a unit called McNamara's Morons where they sent specifically mentally and physically challenged people into combat, people they really didn't care if they lived or died so yes it has happened throughout history it is just not a well discussed topic.
Cold Harbour was 12,000 men killed or injured for the Union over 12 days, not bad casulties compaired to say Antium in the same conflict where the Union took similar casulties in just 1 day, and far less bad than say the battle of Lepzig in the napolionic wars and by far nicer than the contemporanious battles of Najing. Yes Grant attacked a prepared position, but a whole number of stratagies were tested to try and reduce casuites, Grant was not trying to 'feed the cannons' or waste men, he was trying to storm a position. Similarly the Soivets never intentionally sent men into combat without weapons, there were desperate counterattacks where half formed units did end up on the front line and logistics was gnarly until lend lease kicked in but any time the soviets had time to plan an attack they did not send in untrained units, even the penal battalions were given sofisticated tasks. "McNamara Morons" were not formed into seperate units, and were treated identically to any other US service personel, a commander would not even know if the draftee was below the previously set standard. The only times I'd really count 'cannon fodder' is when you really wanted to expend your own forces, such as an unwilling/temporary allies or subjects.
Could you perhaps do a video on the Khitomer class? I think it’s a really cool blend of the Klingon, Starfleet, and Romulan aesthetic, and a very interesting design
The Remans in their role is kind of the Irish in a LOT of ways in the timeperiods of the 17th and 18th Centuries AD in European society; they made up the vast majority of their masters' military forces and a huge percentile of the laborers.
Dominion ships follow a strict lay out design. The reman ship scimitar was a reman made warbird. Singularity core. The mid section widow, the reman architecture and tech on the bridge. Dominion never used thalaron. Nor disruptors or photons torpedo's. If you take all this into account the refit prices, if your head canon was the case, would be so high its more likely the ship was built by remans.
Nemesis did them dirty. I wished they made them look more like Romulans with more of the nose and forehead to sort of explain the ToS Romulan transitioning to the TNG Romulans. Instead Nemesis just made them Space Goblins because we needed ugly bad guys.
You notice; they look kind of like vampires; weird correlation at that. They *are* amazingly proficient troops; and the whole "social currency" Shinzon possessed was really halfway *at least* among the Romulan leadership: aside from the Senatoral Class who were kind of schitsophrenic about them by means of double and contradictory views; both the military and the factory-owners: including many of the senators themselves typically, *liked* them because they had the exact proper mentality to be useful laborers and soldiers- and in their careers: that's what's needed; not arrogance and dandy-like stupidity and vanity, but competency at thinking on one's feet.
I wonder if it would have benefited the Romulans to train a few Reman's in the science of botany - perhaps a few Romulan officials would still be alive after Garak's stay on the home planet.
Another fascinating and insightful video onto one of my favourite species in the Galaxy. It's just a shame that JarJar Abrams killed them all off. I hope someday, a competent executive can take the wheel and reboot the series.
I like to think of Remans as some sort of combination of Haiti, Australia and Nepal... wait hear me out. So imagine a world where they dump the worst convicts and force everyone to do back breaking labor in various forms of enforced labor and the only way off world is to get into the military. So imagine being a slave in Haiti back in the day and the only way to get out was to get recruited was to be in the ANZACs or Gurkhas...
I'm glad someone calls out the whole "cannon fodder " myth in real world armies. There is no army that treats its men like that and lasts for any significant amount of time. Yes there are armies that understand that their very significant manpower advantage they have are a resource in themselves against their opponents but that does not meant that they will just treat their soldiers as expendable. One of the favorite targets for this in the west has always been the Soviet union of WW2 with usual "human wave attacks" and "they made X weapon or X vehicle just good enough to last 5 users" nonsense when in reality Soviets punished officers for wasting men on suicidal frontal attacks while they stayed safe waiting for results (in part this is what the infamous order 227 was about" , they(the soviets) spent massive resource on testing early body armor and improved protection, during the first off seasons rotated their tank and armor crews off the frontlines to retrain them in operation and field maintenance to address the breakdowns and lack of maintenance that plagued them during the initial fighting season and this itself already led to massive reliability improvements and effectively nearly eliminated the loss of vehicles due to breakdowns down to a level close to that of the western powers. In late war their later models of vehicles were as reliable as those from the west and we got statistics of that from places like the soviet drive trough Japanese occupied Asia where the latest models of sherman "easy eight"(operated by soviets) and latest T-34 had effectively identical performance when it comes to mechanical issues and durability over some of teh harshest terrain for tanks of the time.
I love the remans tbh sto alone 3 of my characters are reman In a concept for a long abandoned novel I had the cheif engineer of the USS Century (Century class) was a Reman (had a whole back story and everything)
I really enjoy your analysis about the Remans. Very spot on. Were Remans ever used in the Earth-Romulan war, or the build up to it? I feel like in ENT they were foreshadowing their involvement by including them in the background during some scenes. Could have made for some interesting stories...
Lets just say that according to the Star Trek magazines; Suran's appeal and his reforms proved *VERY* appealing to the Remans: in less than 2 weeks they had in excess of 7 *billion* battalions fully trained and ready for the front lines- he really did prove to be a "Marius-type character" but ironically Shinzon seemed to truly Hate him- and Shinzon himself was flat-out *genocidal* at best. I don't think they'd be culling them, nope, that's not a feasible use of the investment; not when you can arrange for them to move about your country and add to jobs filled- otherwise it is way too much of a waste of assets that can be useful. Also there's a type of religious element involved in this situation, you see: looking at their map, canonically of course: one of their worlds is "Xi Hydrae", now that's the homeworld of the "Medusians", beings that're basically "spirits/angels" for short- the Romulans are basically psychopathic paranoid Vulcan refugees who're both warlike and also basically materialistic, if not atheistic or even *antitheistic*; the Remans are way more spiritualistic than they are; that's only *one* of the elements of cultural hatred, and of course, seeing as the Medusians are essentially *spirits themselves*, long before the Remans would be culled, they'd have completely eradicated the Medusians only for their make and model. Honestly, it is almost as if they had to filter the *rate* of these guys volunteering for their units, and the gladiators, being skilled fighters and bodyguards: same deal: those guys would be *natural* first recruits if you could spare them- as they're already skilled fighters; I'd begin to put the bodyguards as security troops and officers, the gladiators as self-defense training officers primarily, "drill-sargents" so to speak: to make the most good of them.
Once again, we have evidence that the writers of Star Trek never served in the military... As one of my DIs would say, "Darkness is my element, Death is my best friend." Simply put, we _prefer_ to attack at night. We are taught that humans are at their worst at about 0300 hours (3:00am). So we try to plan our attacks for about that time. We also do a change of watch at that time, so that there's always someone fresh on post. Yes, untrained troops may have problems with night combat, but trained, experienced troops _prefer_ it. So the Jem'Hadar shouldn't be caught off-guard by a night assault. This doesn't mean that the Remans wouldn't be at an advantage at night; their physiology would definitely give them an edge. But that would be the limit of their advantage. something else that got my attention: yous say "shock troops" as if it were a bad thing. We Marines are _proud_ to be shock troops. Shock Troops are the tip of the spear, the ones you send in to create the breach. We have to be tougher and better trained than our enemies so that we can accomplish our mission. Shock troops are not "cannon fodder", they are the Elite.
Wonder what became of the Remas post Hobus? This has also got me thinking about other races in the Empire and how they might have contributed tk the war effort 🤔 thanks as ever
you can't really say "no soldier is cannon fodder" because that makes the term meaningless, when we all know it has a meaning. Whatever the minimal investment and value a soldier has to their rulers, those will be the cannon fodder, regardless of if it means they are sent in by the millions to die, or sent in by the millions to dig ditches. We all understand what it means to have someone as cannon fodder.
I think that the definition of cannon fodder ( Def: soldiers regarded merely as material to be expended in war) is met when talking about the Remans. You yourself said that it was like killing 2 birds with one stone because they usually died in combat, and also that the Romulans were probably going to cull the excess Remans over time.. The jem'hadar were cannon fodder. They meant nothing to the Founders. They served one purpose and that was to fight for them. They meant nothing.
Are Remans extinct now? None of the onscreen dialogues include them when talking about rescuing civilians in Romulan territory before the star went nova
Is it ever explained, in Alpha or Beta canon, if Remans are a third offshoot of the Vulcan species, or if they're a completely different species indigenous to the planet Remus?
I like the theory that remans are also another cast of Vulcans like the romulans and that their appearance is due to thousands of years of evolution in Remus harsh environments (maybe a former Vulcan colony before the war of separation on Vulcan) I know the books say that romulans conquered the remans but their appearance & other similarity/abilities does suggest common ancestors separated by environment/evolution
Of course; if you're a star gladiator; you're making your managers a LOT of earnings; and you're pretty much well-liked- it'd be a kind of dumb decision to kill you: it's like gutting the goose that laid the golden egg: that sent the farmer under real quick in the fable.
Here's a bit of a problem, even *from* the views of the throne's occupant *himself*, yes, they are officially free; problem is: where're they going to go? And also: almost nobody would respect anybody else's rights; short of humanity's state: almost everybody out there's got a basically pagan mentality of rights- which means that there's some serious problems; yet freedom in that kind of a geopolitical case really would mean the freedom to negotiate your labor contracts and choose your bosses primarily.
So the reman troops were mad bc they were lied to and waht? What are they supposed to do? Build a advanced uber Ship? Assinate the Senat? Take over the empire? Ridicoulus!
*Absolutely* they'd not have all been enslaved; we see them as *bodyguards* in the Enterprise era in passing, and of course they'd be employed in other jobs here and there- and even if they were all enslaved; a LOT of that's about mental manipulation and persuasion, not just by any account, nor feasible economically, but also you do NOT want to disable or kill them: that is akin to shooting your donkey: a wasteful move at *best*- or so they'd see it that way.
hmmm I don't quite see how the Reman nocturnalality would make any difference. Saying Romulans or Humans are not nocturnal doesn't really mean anything. We can choose when to sleep, this is not a limitation we have. You could easily have a Human attack at night and a Klingon attack at day. And the points against canon fodder.. the way you describe everything about how the Romulans favor their own over the Reman who have no representation, they absolutely sound like canon fodder. We see this in history too with how the British deployed Indians in WW1 or how the Russians are deploying everything and anyone who isn't ethnically Russian over their own people just to soak enemy ammunition.
No soldier was thought of and treated as canon fodder in history? Go read the history of the soldiers of Paraguay and Argentina. Who were the descendants of the enslaved Africans.
It is NOT really a democracy, but Romulan Society is a peculiar situation indeed; it is really a type of democratic republic with an imperial family- it is really a strange geopolitical situation come to think of it... that also explains that odd situation in "the Enterprise Incident" about how come that Romulan lady commander had 3 battlecrusiers in her *first* independent command; universally on that kind of situation you've got a low-powered frigate, and only *one* and you've got to work your way up. How come then did she have 3 battlecrusiers in her first independent command? Well, the novel "Vulcan's Heart" breaks that down *quite well indeed*, you see; her *cousin* is on the *THRONE* In Ki Baratan; so her *capture* is necessarily going to throw her family, their dynasty, into a bit of a tizzy fit panic; course in that she's pretty berating of herself for falling in love with a married man of all things (Spock), like a lustful high-school idiot schoolgirl she pretty much describes her choices about having even thought to indulge her crush on someone else's husband even for a mere *instant*- she was disgusted with herself. When she *was* repatriated; lets just say there were some revisions of who does what tasks in their defense department, and a LOT of hearings on the issues; and *somehow* her cousin had hired an *antimoral* prime minister by the identity of Praetor Dralath; who himself proved to be a completely mentally unstable murderer and really "monster in chief", (go figure for a very dangerous situation) and get this: her other cousin, Narviat, who himself was involved in Mr. Spock's "Catecombes movement" of all things (akin to the persecutions in Imperial Rome's history), he got in contact with an odd group of teenagers meddling around with their "youtube" to put out broadcasts and hijacked Dralath's address with a bit of proof of his crimes; the people were really annoyed that their Praetor had had a toddler killed- and what it did was to set off a riot, or a few!
9:44 "Romulus is a democracy." What?? I thought they were an aristocratic oligarchic empire. I have a hard time imagining any 'middle-class' equivalent being respected for their needs or aspirations compared to 'elite's and the military and secret police that serve them.
Great episode. Thanks for covering the Remans. They seem like the perfect counter to the Jem Hadar.
The remans would have been very handy during the siege of ar-558
Remus has large shipyards and heavy weapons construction facilitys , and in enterprise we see romulan senators with remen military guard ,
@@shanenolan5625 I mean the only reason that happened was the studio got the left over materials from Star Trek nemesis lol.
It’s still impressive enterprise did as well as it did with a much smaller budget than any of the previous Star Trek series besides TOS
Another excellent episode! I am impressed by the depth of thought you put into your analyses. Looking forward to the next presentation.
The Andorians pride themselves as a warrior race as well.
Note quite. They are kind of like the Turians from mass effect. They pride themselves as a society committed to service. There is a very strong martial element to that, but it is not the whole story. They are disciplined and well trained combatants to be sure, but not a warrior race per se.
@@benhobson3084If only the Andorians and the Tellarites got more attention in the shows and movies. Sure, we got some stuff from Enterprise, but it always feels like the four founding races feeling half empty throughout the Federation and Starfleet. I want to know how much they changed between Ent, TOS, TNG and the post-DS9 and Voyager eras and how they could have made interesting characters.
Don't underestimate the blue skins.
Boy, just imagine being some poor Cardassian trooper in the mud on Chintoka somewhere, sipping your Kanar in the trench, and you turn around and see 18:50 staring at you in the face... Yeah I'd be kinda scared too!
Remans may not have been "cannon fodder" but damn it sucked to be a Reman. Certainly no room for weakness in that society. If you're strong, you might have a chance to make a slightly less awful life... if you're weak. You die.
MOAR REMANS PLS! THEY NEED TO BE MORE THAN SPOOKY VAMPIRE THINGS!
Idk if Cardassian got deployed as ground troops, think that was mostly Jim Hadar
well the klingons wiped out an entire order of cardassians in hand to hand combat.
Cardassian: W... WHAT ARE YOU?!?
Reman: *(Holding them up by their collar)* I'm BATMAN!!!
@@poil8351 well..... did they like board a ship and do it or a fight on the ground?
@@poil8351 The 13th Order on Septimus III. A reserve unit, old men and walking wounded according to Martok. 500,000 lost. The loss of an entire Order due to Weyoun's indifference was the final nail in the coffin for Damar's loyalty to the Dominion.
In short, the Remans were like Canadians in WW1.
They politely say sorry to you right after shanking you with a saw-back bayonet?
I would say Ukraine during WW2.
The Senegalese in WW I
The Marines as a Race.
Just think of the Reman Chesty Puller or Dan Daly. 😳
@@TheRezro Scariest fuckers on both sides?
I do have a head canon regarding the Remans post-Nemesis. Fair warning it will tie into Star Trek Online. Basically after the Senate got itself assassinated and Shinzon took over as Praetor, he authorized the Remans to basically attempt to become a semi-independent polity in the Empire establishing colonies and, essentially, shipyards. Taking advantage of the chaos caused by the decapitation of the RSEs government, and Shinzons death, the Remans expand aggressively, especially in shipbuilding.
Their first project would be to resurrect the T'Varo class as a modern light Warbird(Basically it was the classic 22nd Century T'Varo hull wrapped around modern systems, including a new prototype light singularity core.) This design became so successful that even the Romulans adopted it post-Hobus to fill out their fleets. The second was a Frigate/light cruiser called the Hathos Class(the Reman skin of the Dhelan class from STO)This was less popular due to Romulan arrogance and the Empire getting back on it feet and starting to recover from the events of Nemesis. and favoring the Norexan/Mogai due to it being more powerful. Only once D'Tan established his flotilla(which would eventually become the Romulan Republic) did the Hathos(and it's Romulanized variants the Dhelan and Dhael classes) become more widely accepted.
Finally their third design was to be a counter to the Romulans heavy warbirds(like the D'deridex and Kerchan classes) the Ha'apax Class By this point the Romulans had solidified back into a cohesive Empire and were starting to crack down on the Remans hard. So in an attempt to maintain independence they established some secret shipyards to build the Ha'apax. Unfortunately they only started work on a handful of hulls and had not completed them before the Empire and the Tal'Shiar dropped the hammer. D'Tan would learn of these partially completed ships and secretly complete them to serve as the backbone of his flotilla and later the Republic Navy(at least until defectors gave him access to several Scimitar variants to serve as flagships.)
I'd love to see a story where the Scimitar's "test runs" were during the Dominion War.
The Scimitar simply left NO survivors, battlegroups simply disappeared.
Would be a interesting idea but timeline wise wouldn't make sense given the 4-5 year gap between the end of the war and the events of nemesis
@@CristySFM1234 It could easily be a prototype.
@@CristySFM1234 Such a large ship would have required a large development time.
There is a little bit of wiggle room here.
I am just going to say it. Remens are Romulans. They are an offshoot. If you look at the Remen makeup it’s accentuating features that you see on Romulans and to a lesser extent Vulcans. That Nosferatu appearance is the pointed ears, northern ridges and green blood in a translucent skin tone. That’s why they have telepathy.
It’s likely that when the Proto Romulan people landed in the Romulans system they established two colonies one on Romulus one on Remus. Why the Remens ended up as we see them is unclear. Perhaps Remus was a penal colony.
The population being isolated on a planet with a harsh environment and a small isolated population likely accelerated mutation of features. There unique cultural differences likely the result of the both the evolution and potentially them being descendants of exiles or perhaps even a cult or more extremist sect inside the Romulan religion.
I think they are more Like cisalpine gauls early enemies of the Empire that we're conquered Romulanized and used primarily AS auxillary troops
I always enjoy your videos. I figured the Remans weren't "cannon fodder" they were just "The Army". A way for the Romulans with thier smaller population to field a large Army.
Remans really are Star Trek's Stormtrooper equivalent to the SW Stormtrooper aside from the Jem'Hadar which is a close match.
They are more like the First Order Storm Troopers in that there's a lot more pathos to their origins but the heroic good guys still mow them down.
But Remans can actually shoot straight and haven't become a complete joke
Great episode (finally more on ground combat), I have to agree not using the Remans' skills and natural abilities seems like a waste. Issuing them imported carbines is a nice touch, it was built by the lowest bidder.
Quite a decent number of Dune visual comparisons made regarding the Remans. An intriguing overview expanding upon the various professions they could be found in, their troop structure, and how the Dominion War led to the events of Shinzon's servile coup.
Great vid Mike!
Thanks!
😎👍
Great episode. I almost see Remans in old romulan D7 used as stealth cargo/recon ship, with Scorpion in hangar.
great video, it really helps to fill nemesis plot holes
What do you think dilithium crystals are used for specifically?
If dilithium crystals are used to enable the extraction of useful energy from a matter-antimatter reaction, they may be as useful to Romulans as to anyone else. The annihilation of matter and antimatter releases gamma rays, extremely high energy photons that present some difficulty in converting to useful energy. Granted, humanity has had little incentive to yet try.
Hawking radiation from low-mass black holes, such as those that might be found within Romulan starships, would be released as gamma radiation; the same product as in matter-antimatter reactors. It therefore follows that Romulan engineers might use dilithium crystals to produce useful power.
Plus the backbone of the Romulans fleet of lesser ships, civilian ships is likely using M/AM reactors.
@@terranempire2 And dilithium might also work similar to transtator assemblies, too...
Great topic enjoyed it!!! MORE REMAN LORE PLEASE!!! 😁
Now I want to see gladiatorial melee fights between Remans, Jem'Hadar, Klingons, Nausicaans, Ferengi with lightning whips, That super soldier in that one TNG episode, Gorn and maybe Borg Drones. I'm not sure who I'd put my gold-pressed latinum on...
Imagine Federation Caitian troopers. Their cat like senses allowing night time stalking, and if the Jem'Hadar tries to push them to ground, they'd simply be shredded by their claws.
Id argue romulus is not a democracy its an imperial Republic, an oligarchy or noble houses and military families, like the late roman Republic, political power is based on the military, ( the pretors power has always been the romulan fleet) they have the roman titles in a different order, pretor is like imperitor. ( commader in chief ) they have dynasties, the contining committee appears to be ment to ( continue) the imperial project, the expansion of the empire , and i suspect to conquer the federation and klingon empire
In my head canon , after the dominion war , their was an opportunity for peace, neral was overthrown, and replaced by herogen ( pardon my spelling) he promised the military war , they would need at least 4 or 5 years to rebuild thier fleet, and have replacement ships and personnel waiting, this was the best time the klingons were 5 or 6 years away from economic and military recovery, the federation lost half of star fleet in the war and were rebuilding and supported cardassia in a marshall plan type of way , they were also receiving war reparations, but the federation were rebuilding and there new fleet would be much more advanced and technology far superior to the pre war fleet which was aged ,
If the romulans didn't move by nemesis they would never have another chance, so 4 years later the military is ready and the remuns are willing to fight, the army and navy are ready and the pretor broke the deal and wanted the remans confined to remus and just maintain the cold war ,
Enough romulan fleet commaders knew what an asset the remuns were and they wanted the war they had been preparing for sinse the earth / romulan war , they were also tired of the senate, so a coup de tat , with a figure head ,
Unfortunately for them, they picked the wrong figurehead.
I love your use of Dune imagery here. Fits quite well.
Great video about the Remans how they were used in the Romulan Empire in war and domestic use.
I used to think the Remans were mutant Romulans who mutated from living on Remus, and that’s why they have pointy ears.
It's a possibility
"Dreams are messages using mind meld." *throat singing*
i love the Romulan star empire (ships mostly)
and the fact they have the Romulans and the Remans as troops is awesome
Cheers
Good point about the Romulan demand for dilithium being low👍 I take it a Remen with telepathic/enhanced senses would make a better bodyguard than a 'standard' Reman.
It would be good in Reman shock troops and elite Romulan troops trained together. After all, Romulus did not want a Sparticus emerging among the Remans. An overall good video.
There are examples of cannonfodder throughout history that I know of. 1st was during the Civil War where Grant sent troops up against a confederate fort at Cold Harbor that was armed with grapeshot lost about 18,000 men in total about 7,000 in the first half hour was a total suicide run, where he gained the nickname The Butcher Grant was well known for seeing his troops as disposable. 2nd The Soviets during WWII many were sent into combat without arms or munitions they were pretty much just sent to their deaths, if they retreated they would be shot by their own they were pretty much the definition of cannon fodder. 3rd was Vietnam with a unit called McNamara's Morons where they sent specifically mentally and physically challenged people into combat, people they really didn't care if they lived or died so yes it has happened throughout history it is just not a well discussed topic.
Cold Harbour was 12,000 men killed or injured for the Union over 12 days, not bad casulties compaired to say Antium in the same conflict where the Union took similar casulties in just 1 day, and far less bad than say the battle of Lepzig in the napolionic wars and by far nicer than the contemporanious battles of Najing. Yes Grant attacked a prepared position, but a whole number of stratagies were tested to try and reduce casuites, Grant was not trying to 'feed the cannons' or waste men, he was trying to storm a position.
Similarly the Soivets never intentionally sent men into combat without weapons, there were desperate counterattacks where half formed units did end up on the front line and logistics was gnarly until lend lease kicked in but any time the soviets had time to plan an attack they did not send in untrained units, even the penal battalions were given sofisticated tasks.
"McNamara Morons" were not formed into seperate units, and were treated identically to any other US service personel, a commander would not even know if the draftee was below the previously set standard.
The only times I'd really count 'cannon fodder' is when you really wanted to expend your own forces, such as an unwilling/temporary allies or subjects.
Could you perhaps do a video on the Khitomer class? I think it’s a really cool blend of the Klingon, Starfleet, and Romulan aesthetic, and a very interesting design
The Remans in their role is kind of the Irish in a LOT of ways in the timeperiods of the 17th and 18th Centuries AD in European society; they made up the vast majority of their masters' military forces and a huge percentile of the laborers.
I personally follow the books where the remens came from the same ships as the Romulans since remus has no atmosphere.
My head canon says the Scimitar was a captured Dominion Battleship that the Remans refitted.
Dominion ships follow a strict lay out design. The reman ship scimitar was a reman made warbird. Singularity core. The mid section widow, the reman architecture and tech on the bridge. Dominion never used thalaron. Nor disruptors or photons torpedo's. If you take all this into account the refit prices, if your head canon was the case, would be so high its more likely the ship was built by remans.
Nemesis did them dirty.
I wished they made them look more like Romulans with more of the nose and forehead to sort of explain the ToS Romulan transitioning to the TNG Romulans. Instead Nemesis just made them Space Goblins because we needed ugly bad guys.
You notice; they look kind of like vampires; weird correlation at that.
They *are* amazingly proficient troops; and the whole "social currency" Shinzon possessed was really halfway *at least* among the Romulan leadership: aside from the Senatoral Class who were kind of schitsophrenic about them by means of double and contradictory views; both the military and the factory-owners: including many of the senators themselves typically, *liked* them because they had the exact proper mentality to be useful laborers and soldiers- and in their careers: that's what's needed; not arrogance and dandy-like stupidity and vanity, but competency at thinking on one's feet.
Remans are awesome totaly underestimated even have one in STO she is OP
I'd have just settled the freed Remans on some distant colony world in the Romulan Empire.
I had always figured that the telepathic Remans were the result of the intermingling of early Romulans and Remans
that's a lot of beer
I wonder if it would have benefited the Romulans to train a few Reman's in the science of botany - perhaps a few Romulan officials would still be alive after Garak's stay on the home planet.
It's a shame you are not a video game designer. I'd love to play in this universe you are creating.
Another fascinating and insightful video onto one of my favourite species in the Galaxy. It's just a shame that JarJar Abrams killed them all off.
I hope someday, a competent executive can take the wheel and reboot the series.
I like to think of Remans as some sort of combination of Haiti, Australia and Nepal... wait hear me out. So imagine a world where they dump the worst convicts and force everyone to do back breaking labor in various forms of enforced labor and the only way off world is to get into the military. So imagine being a slave in Haiti back in the day and the only way to get out was to get recruited was to be in the ANZACs or Gurkhas...
Penal units were considered cannon fodder.
I think the Remans were more like a guerilla force with a dash of berserker in there too.
I'm glad someone calls out the whole "cannon fodder " myth in real world armies. There is no army that treats its men like that and lasts for any significant amount of time. Yes there are armies that understand that their very significant manpower advantage they have are a resource in themselves against their opponents but that does not meant that they will just treat their soldiers as expendable.
One of the favorite targets for this in the west has always been the Soviet union of WW2 with usual "human wave attacks" and "they made X weapon or X vehicle just good enough to last 5 users" nonsense when in reality Soviets punished officers for wasting men on suicidal frontal attacks while they stayed safe waiting for results (in part this is what the infamous order 227 was about" , they(the soviets) spent massive resource on testing early body armor and improved protection, during the first off seasons rotated their tank and armor crews off the frontlines to retrain them in operation and field maintenance to address the breakdowns and lack of maintenance that plagued them during the initial fighting season and this itself already led to massive reliability improvements and effectively nearly eliminated the loss of vehicles due to breakdowns down to a level close to that of the western powers. In late war their later models of vehicles were as reliable as those from the west and we got statistics of that from places like the soviet drive trough Japanese occupied Asia where the latest models of sherman "easy eight"(operated by soviets) and latest T-34 had effectively identical performance when it comes to mechanical issues and durability over some of teh harshest terrain for tanks of the time.
I love the remans tbh sto alone 3 of my characters are reman
In a concept for a long abandoned novel I had the cheif engineer of the USS Century (Century class) was a Reman (had a whole back story and everything)
I wonder what happened to the Reman's during/after the Supernova? And what happened to the Reman's by the 32nd Century?
Would consider doing an origin episode on the Remans or what became of them after the Romulan star went Nova?
Remans are very capable soldiers.
I really enjoy your analysis about the Remans. Very spot on.
Were Remans ever used in the Earth-Romulan war, or the build up to it? I feel like in ENT they were foreshadowing their involvement by including them in the background during some scenes. Could have made for some interesting stories...
Good question if we follow strictly what TOS said then no. But if you see what's in the enterprise novels then quite possibly
Lets just say that according to the Star Trek magazines; Suran's appeal and his reforms proved *VERY* appealing to the Remans: in less than 2 weeks they had in excess of 7 *billion* battalions fully trained and ready for the front lines- he really did prove to be a "Marius-type character" but ironically Shinzon seemed to truly Hate him- and Shinzon himself was flat-out *genocidal* at best.
I don't think they'd be culling them, nope, that's not a feasible use of the investment; not when you can arrange for them to move about your country and add to jobs filled- otherwise it is way too much of a waste of assets that can be useful.
Also there's a type of religious element involved in this situation, you see: looking at their map, canonically of course: one of their worlds is "Xi Hydrae", now that's the homeworld of the "Medusians", beings that're basically "spirits/angels" for short- the Romulans are basically psychopathic paranoid Vulcan refugees who're both warlike and also basically materialistic, if not atheistic or even *antitheistic*; the Remans are way more spiritualistic than they are; that's only *one* of the elements of cultural hatred, and of course, seeing as the Medusians are essentially *spirits themselves*, long before the Remans would be culled, they'd have completely eradicated the Medusians only for their make and model.
Honestly, it is almost as if they had to filter the *rate* of these guys volunteering for their units, and the gladiators, being skilled fighters and bodyguards: same deal: those guys would be *natural* first recruits if you could spare them- as they're already skilled fighters; I'd begin to put the bodyguards as security troops and officers, the gladiators as self-defense training officers primarily, "drill-sargents" so to speak: to make the most good of them.
Once again, we have evidence that the writers of Star Trek never served in the military... As one of my DIs would say, "Darkness is my element, Death is my best friend."
Simply put, we _prefer_ to attack at night. We are taught that humans are at their worst at about 0300 hours (3:00am). So we try to plan our attacks for about that time. We also do a change of watch at that time, so that there's always someone fresh on post. Yes, untrained troops may have problems with night combat, but trained, experienced troops _prefer_ it. So the Jem'Hadar shouldn't be caught off-guard by a night assault.
This doesn't mean that the Remans wouldn't be at an advantage at night; their physiology would definitely give them an edge. But that would be the limit of their advantage.
something else that got my attention: yous say "shock troops" as if it were a bad thing. We Marines are _proud_ to be shock troops. Shock Troops are the tip of the spear, the ones you send in to create the breach. We have to be tougher and better trained than our enemies so that we can accomplish our mission. Shock troops are not "cannon fodder", they are the Elite.
Erm, who are the Remans ? And why have I never heard of them ?
I don't remember them being mentioned in DS9. (Or anywhere else for that matter)
the shock troops remind me of how saudaukar were trained
Wonder what became of the Remas post Hobus? This has also got me thinking about other races in the Empire and how they might have contributed tk the war effort 🤔 thanks as ever
you can't really say "no soldier is cannon fodder" because that makes the term meaningless, when we all know it has a meaning. Whatever the minimal investment and value a soldier has to their rulers, those will be the cannon fodder, regardless of if it means they are sent in by the millions to die, or sent in by the millions to dig ditches. We all understand what it means to have someone as cannon fodder.
Remans are a reminder why you don't offer a man who lost everything hope.
I think that the definition of cannon fodder ( Def: soldiers regarded merely as material to be expended in war) is met when talking about the Remans. You yourself said that it was like killing 2 birds with one stone because they usually died in combat, and also that the Romulans were probably going to cull the excess Remans over time.. The jem'hadar were cannon fodder. They meant nothing to the Founders. They served one purpose and that was to fight for them. They meant nothing.
Elite canon fodder like the Anzacs. Initially they'd suffer heavy losses but would eventually become special forces. Looking like Nosferatu helps.
Romulans developed stormtrooper tactics but actually had the "expendable" manpower to make it effective
Remans were such a lazy plot element. Whoever thought that up should feel bad.
Are Remans extinct now? None of the onscreen dialogues include them when talking about rescuing civilians in Romulan territory before the star went nova
Send in the Irish
Venomgeekmedia: “Are you not entertained?”
Is it ever explained, in Alpha or Beta canon, if Remans are a third offshoot of the Vulcan species, or if they're a completely different species indigenous to the planet Remus?
I think the Lyrans were referred to as “10 feet of terror” by the Klingons.
I like the theory that remans are also another cast of Vulcans like the romulans and that their appearance is due to thousands of years of evolution in Remus harsh environments (maybe a former Vulcan colony before the war of separation on Vulcan)
I know the books say that romulans conquered the remans but their appearance & other similarity/abilities does suggest common ancestors separated by environment/evolution
Seems like a slight misstep by the Tal Shiar.
i hear they where very busy not existing.
Of course; if you're a star gladiator; you're making your managers a LOT of earnings; and you're pretty much well-liked- it'd be a kind of dumb decision to kill you: it's like gutting the goose that laid the golden egg: that sent the farmer under real quick in the fable.
Ahh yes, the dark elves!
Best Special Forces
Ron Perlman!!
Remans are Romulins they are not separate species they are related to the same vulcsns who left Vulcan and arrived at Romulus .
They're the AK-47s of the era
I thought remans came from Vulcan-protoromulan psychic exiled banished to the dark side of Remus.
Jem Hadar dont murder they Kill!
Remens remind me of Nosferatu!!!
Technically nothing, because they didn't exist until Star Trek: Nemesis.
Here's a bit of a problem, even *from* the views of the throne's occupant *himself*, yes, they are officially free; problem is: where're they going to go? And also: almost nobody would respect anybody else's rights; short of humanity's state: almost everybody out there's got a basically pagan mentality of rights- which means that there's some serious problems; yet freedom in that kind of a geopolitical case really would mean the freedom to negotiate your labor contracts and choose your bosses primarily.
So the reman troops were mad bc they were lied to and waht? What are they supposed to do? Build a advanced uber Ship? Assinate the Senat? Take over the empire? Ridicoulus!
*Absolutely* they'd not have all been enslaved; we see them as *bodyguards* in the Enterprise era in passing, and of course they'd be employed in other jobs here and there- and even if they were all enslaved; a LOT of that's about mental manipulation and persuasion, not just by any account, nor feasible economically, but also you do NOT want to disable or kill them: that is akin to shooting your donkey: a wasteful move at *best*- or so they'd see it that way.
hmmm I don't quite see how the Reman nocturnalality would make any difference. Saying Romulans or Humans are not nocturnal doesn't really mean anything. We can choose when to sleep, this is not a limitation we have. You could easily have a Human attack at night and a Klingon attack at day.
And the points against canon fodder.. the way you describe everything about how the Romulans favor their own over the Reman who have no representation, they absolutely sound like canon fodder. We see this in history too with how the British deployed Indians in WW1 or how the Russians are deploying everything and anyone who isn't ethnically Russian over their own people just to soak enemy ammunition.
Son, why don't you ask the Wagner boys if there is such thing as Cannon Fodder.
Cannon fodder!
No soldier was thought of and treated as canon fodder in history?
Go read the history of the soldiers of Paraguay and Argentina.
Who were the descendants of the enslaved Africans.
It is NOT really a democracy, but Romulan Society is a peculiar situation indeed; it is really a type of democratic republic with an imperial family- it is really a strange geopolitical situation come to think of it... that also explains that odd situation in "the Enterprise Incident" about how come that Romulan lady commander had 3 battlecrusiers in her *first* independent command; universally on that kind of situation you've got a low-powered frigate, and only *one* and you've got to work your way up.
How come then did she have 3 battlecrusiers in her first independent command? Well, the novel "Vulcan's Heart" breaks that down *quite well indeed*, you see; her *cousin* is on the *THRONE* In Ki Baratan; so her *capture* is necessarily going to throw her family, their dynasty, into a bit of a tizzy fit panic; course in that she's pretty berating of herself for falling in love with a married man of all things (Spock), like a lustful high-school idiot schoolgirl she pretty much describes her choices about having even thought to indulge her crush on someone else's husband even for a mere *instant*- she was disgusted with herself.
When she *was* repatriated; lets just say there were some revisions of who does what tasks in their defense department, and a LOT of hearings on the issues; and *somehow* her cousin had hired an *antimoral* prime minister by the identity of Praetor Dralath; who himself proved to be a completely mentally unstable murderer and really "monster in chief", (go figure for a very dangerous situation) and get this: her other cousin, Narviat, who himself was involved in Mr. Spock's "Catecombes movement" of all things (akin to the persecutions in Imperial Rome's history), he got in contact with an odd group of teenagers meddling around with their "youtube" to put out broadcasts and hijacked Dralath's address with a bit of proof of his crimes; the people were really annoyed that their Praetor had had a toddler killed- and what it did was to set off a riot, or a few!
We would see that next in the Russia...
Why do the Remans look like Nosfaratu vampires?
9:44 "Romulus is a democracy." What?? I thought they were an aristocratic oligarchic empire. I have a hard time imagining any 'middle-class' equivalent being respected for their needs or aspirations compared to 'elite's and the military and secret police that serve them.
I'll explain. In a future video.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I just caught that video. I almost thought it was a direct response to my comment.
Good piece too, by the way.