The Matrimonial Order, with Gwendolyn Wyne
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- Meghan is joined by Gwnedolyn Wyne to discuss her research into what she calls the "Matrimonial Order." Topics include:
- Understanding Priestesshood
- What is a "Help Meet"
- The Ordinance of Birth
- Doing vs receiving ordinances
- Balance in Zion
Gwendolyn Stevens Wyne is a former librarian who now writes about women’s opportunities and responsibilities in theology and culture. A native of Los Angeles, Gwendolyn graduated with an English major and Business minor from Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah and later received her Master of Library and Information Science degree (MLIS) from UCLA. She was a Reference Librarian for the Santa Monica Public Library and a Young Adult Librarian for the County of Los Angeles Public Library before choosing to become a full time mother. Gwendolyn and her husband are raising their 5 young children to joyfully grow and serve together in their home, church, and community. @gwendolynwyne
#divinefeminine #women #ldswomen #lds #marriage
It's so fun to be awakened and start to 'see' with new eyes what has been hidden!
Thank you both for bringing this beautiful truth forward. Bless you!
I loved Gwendolyn's story of the birth of her first child. Thank you for sharing that beautiful, sacred experience
Awesome so excited to see Gwendolyn on your podcast. I love her words!
About 30 mins in, I’m loving the discussion of women being symbolic of the Savior, and how He was the Deliverer. I heard something powerful on the Zion Media podcast from Cloudpiler (he helped translate the Nemenah records - I don’t remember his other name he goes by..) He mentioned that when the Savior was on the cross and said “Behold thy Mother”, he was asking John to behold Mary and take care of her, but he was also asking those present to Behold Him as their Mother, in the sense that he was showing the same pattern that mothers do in laying their life down willingly so that their children can have life.
In the same or a similar conversation that included Chief Midegah on that podcast, the Chief explained that the entire purpose of the sacred lodges of the indigenous peoples, which have striking similarities to our temples, is that the men are trying to become more like their women through the rituals and principles taught there, including sacrifice. I feel like that is significant- there are sacred traditions on this continent even earlier than our latter-day temple traditions that tie back to even more ancient rituals- arguably all the way back to the garden eastward in Eden (check out the Ancient traditions podcast for detail on that.).
I hope I’ve represented accurately what was meant by these people who I learned these concepts from - I wanted to put credit where it was due.
I echo everything you mentioned 👍. So many “Ahas”
Yay!! It was so awesome to listen to such beautiful wisdom from two of my favorite beautiful women 💕. Thanks Meghan and Gwendolyn
I literally just finished reading her two Matriarchal and Matrimonial papers last week 😍 and then you share this today. So excited! This is a tender mercy for me in my personal studies. Thank you ladies!
Beautiful ladies❣Lets love each other and be OK with a bit of a mess!
Yay....🥳🥳Gwendolyn!!
She saved my faith as I was ready to exit the church. I was done believing in a God that created women to be whoredoms for men. In one last attempt to resurrect my faith one of her videos popped up. I still disagreed with her at that moment😅. But I could Not deny the spirit I felt listening to her. I'm in complete agreement now as I took her challenge to pray about it.
This was absolutely beautiful!!
I agree that both masculine and feminine balance each other. I have two boys and three girls. I cherish traits from both genders. There really are some things men do where women don't belong as well as some things women do where men don't belong. It's the beauty of balance and unity and why we need each other so much. Great episode 👏
Speaking the truth in love. I Absolutely believe that’s the way forward. For me I find it easier said than done, especially when so many wonderful people around me in the church are so steeped in the perspective that everything we need to know is going to come through the prophet, so they have no reason to consider the perspective of women on many important doctrinal issues to be valid. If anyone has tips for me in navigating that, I’m open!
Women are portals from heaven to earth whether it’s bringing a heavenly being into this mortal experience or bringing in heavenly concepts to this world.
I have a hard time with this, because I think our temples need repentence. I gave my temple recommend back. Although I love Gwendolyn and the message of women and mens roles recognizing God and his vocie and his ways.
I love your fierce willingness to seek truth, MommaCrissa, and I understand that you are acting with integrity💜 I absolutely agree that we are in desperate need of repentance and redemption, and as much as our temples have false traditions within them then they are not exempt from this either. I believe the divine intention of temples is to give us a type of spiritual attachment, but depending on what century/decade one attended our latter-day temples, this may or may not have been clearly communicated. There have been many temple changes in my lifetime that seem to be moving us toward the matrimonial order of God; I truly hope we will embrace the truth.
I am also currently struggling to sort what’s true and not/what may be missing or unnecessary in our current latter-day temple experience. I think you are wise to give pause on embracing all of it wholeheartedly without question.. there are very valid things to consider, especially considering that there is scriptural precedent and prophecy of corruption in temples. I also think that we can have valuable spiritual experiences in temples, even if they do contain corruptions, based on our own spiritual preparation and desire to connect with the heavens, without the temple experience necessarily being as correct as it ideally should be. I’d love to hear more or your experience and thoughts, I’m really still in brainstorm mode about this, and I’ve noticed and appreciated your comments on many channels that I follow.
@@jjhardy2000 Two big things have entered my heart that I have had to face. The first is when president Nelson gave the message about the V. I know it is what everyone hears and is tired of hearing it. For me it was four years of struggle. Specifically when he asked us to pray for health, I did that. But, when he said that it was a literal godsend as an answer to prayer...I was alarmed. I said out loud, wait he didn't ask us to pray for a V, it is not a God send. When one of my daughters was going into 7th grade, now 20 years old I had studied and prayed about her receiving the V to enter middle school. (Here in Utah). I had video after video come to my view. Especially the statements made my Stanley Plotkin's involvement with the testing and manufature of them. He has an 8 or 9 hour testimony of questions asked of him. Long story short on this, is that I was shown from God they are NOT of God. I then started finding out as time went on that tithing money went to millions of V to other countries. I started to feel less easy, but didn't change paying tithing or do anything different regarding the church. It was during the time that Trump was coming on the scene, so 2015 into 2016 that I started looking into things in our country that were true or false. Massive deep dives. I didn't even know who Nancy Pelosi was before this, although my husband frequently talked about politics. I knew nothing virtually. It is during this time that lead me straight into knowing about how the UN is tied to all these things that consider with religion. It's like politics and religion are tied at the hip, they aren't separated at all. Before the v or the V came about there was the Event 201 that was shown in October of 2019. It was a whole scenario introducing exactly what DID happen within the next few months following. It showed me that the whole thing was planned from OUR gov . If you don't know about these things or if you do and didn't believe it, I'd just suggest at this point pray about it because it's thousands of hours of study. Anyway, knowing that the V's were dangerous for our bodies, when our own prophet endorsement whole heartily it ran against everything in my mind and heart. I went up and down and back and forth praying, studying hoping trying to understand it. Hoping it had to be he was just testing us. That God had authorized it so we were tested to see who would follow God and who would just do it and not truly seek him. I bought many old testament books studying what happened with Moses and the serpents. What the author's commentary was...all LDS books. I tried just letting it go with he must just be ignorant to it and he was doing the best he could, after all he is the prophet. I knew that he had said for us to, "Hear Him", so he wanted us to always go to God for our answers like we should. So, I had let it go to the back of my mind and sit and not worry about it. I even got excited about President Nelson's last couple conference addresses, and reread them and listened intently. I typed one up before it even came out officially. I was diving in to believing in his revelation. I thought I actually was starting to study something else because a video popped up out of the blue. Guess which one it was .... Gwendolyn's first video. I never could get the answer about this topic and hear was a beautiful voice that had some answers. I asked several questions because I never considered our own scriptures could have one ounce of something incorrect. That the Bible was true as far as it is translated correctly, but the other scriptures I just thought it was me never quite putting the puzzle pieces of God together. As I listened and relistened to Gwendolyn's ideas and read those scriptures it was becoming so clear. I was praying along the whole way, but I do that all day with everything, even in the night. It was during this process I just knew that polygamy was not of God. It was freeing! So freeing. It felt like God had given the answers through Gwendolyn. I never even knew where to look for those answers. It wasn't until one of her last episodes that she brought up about Brigham Young. I was half shocked how she spoke about him. I had never considered he was doing things so wrong. I was just starting to put two and two together, but I gave it a rest for awhile because it was heavy. Since Gwendolyn had introduced us to Michelle Stone I went to her channel. I started learning a lot! I even started going to the Joseph Smith Papers myself and reading material. I don't like to take people's word for it, but as I'm finding out, God doesn't want us to do that. That's why we each have to study, pray and know for ourselves. I do believe God does give us testimony based on others but there's always a time where we are given answers by things he shows us to confirm our answers too, otherwise he has us deep dive into scriptures and other resources to find what he wants us to find. So, after following Michelle's podcast it started to bring me to the questions of if Brigham was a prophet, which led me right back to is President Nelson a prophet. All along I thought my course was finding out a different truth, but it lead me to what I had sincerely been asking God. I finally was able to be shown that even though I wanted him to be, that President Nelson is only an administrator holding up the church but not a prophet. But all of the wonderful presidents of the church I thought what about all of them with all their good messages. Prophetic things. I understand now that we can all receive revelation, but the reason why our church has been allowed to stay is because it contains the doctrine of Christ which the book of Mormon has. The book of Mormon needed to flood the earth. That as we each are close to our Father through Christ and the Holy Ghost we can help one another with revelation on Prophesy. If we aren't we could also lead people astray. I found it was Brigham in February of 1862 where he first said a prophet couldn't lead astray. Joseph never said that. He told the members that they were depending too much on him and that was of the devil. They needed to rely on the Lord. The last thing I'll mention here is about tithing. I had never considered not to pay because we are blessed when we give to God and to others and experience s of paying tithing where everything worked out. It was when I was learning all about all of this and temples, the holy Ghost, Joseph Smith etc. was coming up more. I read a lot in the new testament. In Acts chapter 7 I believe it was talking about why Stephen was stoned to death. It was because he told how he saw God's throne in heaven. He was saying where the temple was and they didn't want to hear it. I searched the words temple, tower, etc. in the scriptures. I read in Isaiah and I realized also every time an earthly temple was built it was told that it would be destroyed. Jesus even sat outside teaching the people doctrine. I thought how different what he did verses the temples we have. I saw that in the Book of Mormon when Christ came it was at the temple but it was after all the destruction and he came and visited the people. He didn't mention one thing about going inside the temple or anything to do with it. He did say those that were there were more righteous than those who had died. Then he went on to teach about proper baptism. Why would he have to teach about baptism to members who had his temple? As I thought about it, it came to me that those who had died were not practicing his gospel. After this Jesus teaching points were all about remembering the covenant, which is Abraham's covenant with God in Genesis 12... That ALL the house of Israel will be blessed. They would all receive his Gospel, but if the Gentiles (us) don't repent the gospel will be taken from us and given to the Jews. The rest of third Nephi is pretty explosive to me. In addition with the temple, when I read 1 Corinthians 15 it is specifically talking about the resurrection. Knowing this as you read when you get down to the lie about doing work for the dead, it appears to be saying, if the dead are all going to rise again.....why are we doing this work? Because if you're without the law (Moroni 8) you don't need baptism. The tithing piece was confirmed when I was praying how I could have my husband on board because I didn't want him to think I was going off the rails or away from God, but towards God. The very week we had an experience the involved the church and our money that I was able to bring up my concerns, and he said, absolutely we will not pay it anymore to them but give to those in need directly. So, sorry to make this so long, although it really could be longer. Several years condensed into a post is not saying all the feelings, tears, experiences, study and struggle, but I hope you gain something to help you become closer to Our God and his Son Jesus Christ our Savior while being led by the Holy Ghost.
@@jjhardy2000 Two big things have entered my heart that I have had to face. The first is when president Nelson gave the message about the V. I know it is what everyone hears and is tired of hearing it. For me it was four years of struggle. Specifically when he asked us to pray for health, I did that. But, when he said that it was a literal godsend as an answer to prayer...I was alarmed. I said out loud, wait he didn't ask us to pray for a V, it is not a God send. When one of my daughters was going into 7th grade, now 20 years old I had studied and prayed about her receiving the V to enter middle school. (Here in Utah). I had video after video come to my view. Especially the statements made my Stanley Plotkin's involvement with the testing and manufature of them. He has an 8 or 9 hour testimony of questions asked of him. Long story short on this, is that I was shown from God they are NOT of God. I then started finding out as time went on that tithing money went to millions of V to other countries. I started to feel less easy, but didn't change paying tithing or do anything different regarding the church. It was during the time that Trump was coming on the scene, so 2015 into 2016 that I started looking into things in our country that were true or false. Massive deep dives. I didn't even know who Nancy Pelosi was before this, although my husband frequently talked about politics. I knew nothing virtually. It is during this time that lead me straight into knowing about how the UN is tied to all these things that consider with religion. It's like politics and religion are tied at the hip, they aren't separated at all. Before the v or the V came about there was the Event 201 that was shown in October of 2019. It was a whole scenario introducing exactly what DID happen within the next few months following. It showed me that the whole thing was planned from OUR gov . If you don't know about these things or if you do and didn't believe it, I'd just suggest at this point pray about it because it's thousands of hours of study. Anyway, knowing that the V's were dangerous for our bodies, when our own prophet endorsement whole heartily it ran against everything in my mind and heart. I went up and down and back and forth praying, studying hoping trying to understand it. Hoping it had to be he was just testing us. That God had authorized it so we were tested to see who would follow God and who would just do it and not truly seek him. I bought many old testament books studying what happened with Moses and the serpents. What the author's commentary was...all LDS books. I tried just letting it go with he must just be ignorant to it and he was doing the best he could, after all he is the prophet. I knew that he had said for us to, "Hear Him", so he wanted us to always go to God for our answers like we should. So, I had let it go to the back of my mind and sit and not worry about it. I even got excited about President Nelson's last couple conference addresses, and reread them and listened intently. I typed one up before it even came out officially. I was diving in to believing in his revelation. I thought I actually was starting to study something else because a video popped up out of the blue. Guess which one it was .... Gwendolyn's first video. I never could get the answer about this topic and hear was a beautiful voice that had some answers. I asked several questions because I never considered our own scriptures could have one ounce of something incorrect. That the Bible was true as far as it is translated correctly, but the other scriptures I just thought it was me never quite putting the puzzle pieces of God together. As I listened and relistened to Gwendolyn's ideas and read those scriptures it was becoming so clear. I was praying along the whole way, but I do that all day with everything, even in the night. It was during this process I just knew that polygamy was not of God. It was freeing! So freeing. It felt like God had given the answers through Gwendolyn. I never even knew where to look for those answers. It wasn't until one of her last episodes that she brought up about Brigham Young. I was half shocked how she spoke about him. I had never considered he was doing things so wrong. I was just starting to put two and two together, but I gave it a rest for awhile because it was heavy. Since Gwendolyn had introduced us to Michelle Stone I went to her channel. I started learning a lot! I even started going to the Joseph Smith Papers myself and reading material. I don't like to take people's word for it, but as I'm finding out, God doesn't want us to do that. That's why we each have to study, pray and know for ourselves. I do believe God does give us testimony based on others but there's always a time where we are given answers by things he shows us to confirm our answers too, otherwise he has us deep dive into scriptures and other resources to find what he wants us to find. So, after following Michelle's podcast it started to bring me to the questions of if Brigham was a prophet, which led me right back to is President Nelson a prophet. All along I thought my course was finding out a different truth, but it lead me to what I had sincerely been asking God. I finally was able to be shown that even though I wanted him to be, that President Nelson is only an administrator holding up the church but not a prophet. But all of the wonderful presidents of the church I thought what about all of them with all their good messages. Prophetic things. I understand now that we can all receive revelation, but the reason why our church has been allowed to stay is because it contains the doctrine of Christ which the book of Mormon has. The book of Mormon needed to flood the earth. That as we each are close to our Father through Christ and the Holy Ghost we can help one another with revelation on Prophesy. If we aren't we could also lead people astray. I found it was Brigham in February of 1862 where he first said a prophet couldn't lead astray. Joseph never said that. He told the members that they were depending too much on him and that was of the devil. They needed to rely on the Lord. The last thing I'll mention here is about tithing. I had never considered not to pay because we are blessed when we give to God and to others and experience s of paying tithing where everything worked out. It was when I was learning all about all of this and temples, the holy Ghost, Joseph Smith etc. was coming up more. I read a lot in the new testament. In Acts chapter 7 I believe it was talking about why Stephen was stoned to death. It was because he told how he saw God's throne in heaven. He was saying where the temple was and they didn't want to hear it. I searched the words temple, tower, etc. in the scriptures. I read in Isaiah and I realized also every time an earthly temple was built it was told that it would be destroyed. Jesus even sat outside teaching the people doctrine. I thought how different what he did verses the temples we have. I saw that in the Book of Mormon when Christ came it was at the temple but it was after all the destruction and he came and visited the people. He didn't mention one thing about going inside the temple or anything to do with it. He did say those that were there were more righteous than those who had died. Then he went on to teach about proper baptism. Why would he have to teach about baptism to members who had his temple? As I thought about it, it came to me that those who had died were not practicing his gospel. After this Jesus teaching points were all about remembering the covenant, which is Abraham's covenant with God in Genesis 12... That ALL the house of Israel will be blessed. They would all receive his Gospel, but if the Gentiles (us) don't repent the gospel will be taken from us and given to the Jews. The rest of third Nephi is pretty explosive to me. In addition with the temple, when I read 1 Corinthians 15 it is specifically talking about the resurrection. Knowing this as you read when you get down to the lie about doing work for the dead, it appears to be saying, if the dead are all going to rise again.....why are we doing this work? Because if you're without the law (Moroni 8) you don't need baptism. The tithing piece was confirmed when I was praying how I could have my husband on board because I didn't want him to think I was going off the rails or away from God, but towards God. The very week we had an experience the involved the church and our money that I was able to bring up my concerns, and he said, absolutely we will not pay it anymore to them but give to those in need directly. So, sorry to make this so long, although it really could be longer. Several years condensed into a post is not saying all the feelings, tears, experiences, study and struggle, but I hope you gain something to help you become closer to Our God and his Son Jesus Christ our Savior while being led by the Holy Ghost.
@@jjhardy2000 I've tried to answer a couple times. Y T won't let me.
Eve was created in the image of God, Elohim. Elohim is a Hebrew word meaning "gods" or "godhood".
So I have a simple question for you?
If you’re not truly attached to your eternal companion, but we marry someone who balances us only for a period of time and then we separate emotionally as we naturally grow apart, what do you think this conversation does to a righteous man who is walking the path of life, desiring emotionally to find her. His desire is to hold her in his arms to look into her eyes, and to cherish every fiber of her being.
Elton John music might (does!!!) glorifies his Soul.
We also desires our eternal spouse right?
Let’s consider the male feelings and I don’t mean to be crude, but his connection to her lights him up through His direct connection and he will want it (you) Right Now!!!!!!!
The pattern is exactly opposite to her.
This is why there are few men who can live in that realm of purity. The temptation is massive,
A male must become a celestial being to fight off that kind of temptation if he has his calling and election already assured and walks this .earth.
Many are called, but few are chosen.
Hi Peter - forgive me if I don’t understand your question completely, but based on my current understanding, as a husband and wife pursue God, becoming more individually integrated within our unique, gendered spirits and bodies, we will grow more aligned to each other, including sexually. Men who initiate, live and complete ordinances will find their drives more controllable and women who do the same will experience increased desire for their righteous husband. The imbalance in sex drives is a feature of disintegration which can be overcome on both sides through spiritual progression.