The Magic Table That Lets You Compose Canons Over A Cantus Firmus (1596)

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  • Опубликовано: 1 май 2024
  • For the footnotes and other extra information see the following link:
    www.earlymusicsources.com/you...
    Created by Elam Rotem and Alon Schab, April 2024
    Music examples by Leonardo Bartolotto (viols) and Elam Rotem (harpsichord).
    Special thanks to Denis Collins, Peter Schubert, Tim Braithwaite, Sean Curtice, Loren Ludwig and Anne Smith.
    Support us on PATREON: / earlymusicsources
    Support us by getting an Awesome T-shirt: teechip.com/stores/earlymusic...
    Support us by getting a poster of Bathe's table: www.teechip.com/bathe

Комментарии • 108

  • @Divergent_Integral
    @Divergent_Integral 29 дней назад +76

    For those who want to delve more deeply into this matter, from a modern, mathematically informed perspective, I can definitely recommend Stefan Prey's PhD thesis "Algorithmen zur Satztechnik und ihre Anwendung auf die Analyse". (Unfortunately only in German.)

    • @aleksandarbrzic8351
      @aleksandarbrzic8351 29 дней назад +7

      Why "unfortunately" ? Could it be a wonderful reason to learn a new language?

    • @Divergent_Integral
      @Divergent_Integral 29 дней назад +22

      @@aleksandarbrzic8351 Many people simply don't have the resources (such as sufficient spare time) to learn a new language, especially up to the level where reading scientific literature in that language becomes feasible. On the other hand, it is true that German is one of the most useful languages to learn for anyone with an interest in music theory.

    • @Lalulalala824
      @Lalulalala824 29 дней назад +11

      ​@@aleksandarbrzic8351what world do you live in? Lmao

    • @clercflorian4637
      @clercflorian4637 29 дней назад +4

      @@aleksandarbrzic8351 because Life is too short to learn German 😉 / it's a joke

    • @mer1red
      @mer1red 29 дней назад

      Can you download it from somewhere? I cannot find a link.

  • @Hwyadylaw
    @Hwyadylaw 28 дней назад +15

    Beautiful presentation. (And I cannot stress enough how crucial the dancing skeleton was to aid my understanding)

  • @dorontirosh
    @dorontirosh 29 дней назад +39

    Thank you for this amazing episode. For me, this channel is life-changing.

  • @WilliamFord972
    @WilliamFord972 29 дней назад +6

    “…let’s see how it works and how you could also use it to create fancy canons.” [Seamlessly cuts to a commercial playing “I’ll stop the world and melt with you”] 😂

  • @ArturJD96
    @ArturJD96 29 дней назад +44

    "The way how the table works is quite simple".
    IT"S NOT
    ~ the above is the summary of how Early music works.

  • @lcerante
    @lcerante 15 дней назад +3

    Elam, thank you for another masterclass! This episode could be a wonderful segway to Costanzo Festa's 125 counterpoints on La Spagna. I would love to see an episode where you dissect his counterpoints! Please do consider! =)

  • @puffinwrangler7557
    @puffinwrangler7557 8 дней назад +1

    Fabulous, thank you. I had to learn Palestrina's style from Knud Jeppeson's book during my bachelor's degree. Now I'm inspired tonight to try Bathe's table!

  • @liquensrollant
    @liquensrollant 26 дней назад +3

    It's wonderful to have these hidden corners of music history brought to light, both by the scholars doing the research and by explaining it on this channel. This channel continues to be a source of delight. Thank you again!

  • @maxjohn6012
    @maxjohn6012 29 дней назад +7

    Dear Elam, thank you *so much* for this. I've been hoping you'd do something about early English music for years, and this was so much more interesting and useful than I imagined! What a fascinating tool, can't wait to try.

    • @maxjohn6012
      @maxjohn6012 28 дней назад +1

      It's a lot harder than you make it look ....

    • @ruthenusalbus5609
      @ruthenusalbus5609 19 дней назад +1

      It would be also very nice to see another series on England's Great Musical Epochue series - e.g., about Rules how to Compose by Giovanni Coprario, New Way of Making Fowre Parts in Counterpoint by Thomas Campion or about hints of musical craft in Matthew Locke's Melothesia...

  • @maximilianraab18
    @maximilianraab18 27 дней назад +7

    Thank you Elam for including the score to the opening jingle! I have been trying to learn it by ear for some time, but now I can finally play it!

  • @dannuttle9005
    @dannuttle9005 29 дней назад +5

    It took this channel, after more than twenty years of watching the show, to make me realize that Professor Farnsworth is the only character whose picture is immediately and automatically associated with a single phrase. I plan to write a guide on this subject that will still be debated four hundred years from now. The lower Farnsworth starts with a befuddled, "What?", the middle Farnsworth responds with either an "Oh you!" or an "I am already in my pyjamas", the upper Farnsworth gives a high-pitched laugh, and then all of them resolve in a perfect authentic "good news, everyone."

    • @dannuttle9005
      @dannuttle9005 29 дней назад +2

      Admit it: You just heard three Professor Farnsworths singing "good news, everyone" in a perfect authentic cadence.

  • @jddrew1000
    @jddrew1000 11 дней назад +1

    This was so well done!

  • @taylordiclemente5163
    @taylordiclemente5163 29 дней назад +7

    This is a great companion to Peter Schubert's canonic methods. Thank you!

  • @mattcavoto
    @mattcavoto 29 дней назад +6

    Thank you so much for this episode! It would be very interesting to learn more about the change from 6 to 4 syllable solfege in England. And you've inspired me to see about making a derivative chart for placing the cantus firmus above the canon now.

  • @weloverobospam
    @weloverobospam 28 дней назад +2

    Ahhh! The basket of vegetables that shows up on the table behind Elam.🤣

  • @kaybrown4010
    @kaybrown4010 29 дней назад +2

    Please tell us more about the English four note solfège. Very interesting video, Elam!

  • @carlasker9285
    @carlasker9285 29 дней назад +6

    It is like programming a DX-7.
    This was HARD.

    • @PawePoskon
      @PawePoskon 9 дней назад +2

      A crossover I didn’t suspect, but appreciate!

  • @ArturJD96
    @ArturJD96 24 дня назад +1

    Isn't the observation 5 and 6 made for expecting perfect intervals in the final cadences (or avoiding such a situation)? The canons in Bathe treatise you transcribed all end with third and without fifth, so he might have wished to avoid having the final cadence only with 1 and 5.

  • @aingeru11
    @aingeru11 25 дней назад +1

    thanks a lot for the video, sir, one question, in your realization (also in Bathe´s), on second bar, between C F and Dux (leader) there is an octave, then a fifht and again an octave. Is that correct???? Thanks a lot, very useful video

  • @DanielAlvarezVeizaga
    @DanielAlvarezVeizaga 29 дней назад +4

    Good to know that canons are like vegetables. ❤

  • @Johnwilkinsonofficial
    @Johnwilkinsonofficial 27 дней назад +1

    Schoenberg referred a few times to the "secrets of the netherlanders" when discussing counterpoint and ive always thought he had certain things like this in mind. do you know more about what Schoenberg meant there ?

  • @Saturos02
    @Saturos02 29 дней назад +4

    Fantastic work and presentation, I'll definitely give this a try!

  • @Beryllahawk
    @Beryllahawk 28 дней назад +1

    Wonderful video! As always, presented with great clarity and just the right amount of humor! Thank you!

  • @gidimeir
    @gidimeir 29 дней назад +2

    Wonderful, clearly informative and very well researched and presented. Bravo!

  • @diegomaugeri4038
    @diegomaugeri4038 29 дней назад +4

    Wait, can this be used to compose a subject and a countersubject in a fugue? My life just took a turn!
    Edit: I spoke too soon... I tried a canon in one at the unison on a passamezzo as a cantus firmus (thinking it would've been easier) and by following the table and the observation I ended up with no available choices in the first two notes!
    Brilliant...

    • @VaughanMcAlley
      @VaughanMcAlley 14 дней назад +1

      A subject and countersubject of a fugue have to be invertable. This is a different thing, though just as interesting, with different intervals allowed according to what interval the inversion will happen at. If you’re Bach you might make them invertible at three intervals at once!

  • @aleksandarbrzic8351
    @aleksandarbrzic8351 29 дней назад +2

    Finally a new video! Thanks! Great stuff as usual and I love your calm and measured narration...

  • @inguiable
    @inguiable 29 дней назад

    Thank you for your work!!!

  • @HighWideandHandsome
    @HighWideandHandsome 17 дней назад

    Excellent episode. I wonder if this idea might not be outside your the scope of your channel-and if it is, then pass over to other things-but would you consider doing an episode on the practice of composers copying out works by others to improve their own craft?

  • @timothyj.bowlby5524
    @timothyj.bowlby5524 29 дней назад +1

    These/this episode(s) are/is so much fun! Thanks.

  • @L_S_Barros
    @L_S_Barros 28 дней назад

    Great as always, Elam!

  • @Perryz7
    @Perryz7 28 дней назад

    I am inspired by this video to try my hand at some canons (and then proceed to break every rule in the book for funsies.) Thank you Elam!

  • @TenorCantusFirmus
    @TenorCantusFirmus 29 дней назад

    Thank you so much! This is amazing.

  • @1974gringojuan
    @1974gringojuan 28 дней назад +1

    Brilliant as ever!

  • @billclarkcomposer7719
    @billclarkcomposer7719 18 дней назад

    A wonderfully clear explanation. Well done.

  • @Miguel-zp9yp
    @Miguel-zp9yp 29 дней назад

    I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. Many thanks for your excellent work!

  • @matthieulamiable4757
    @matthieulamiable4757 29 дней назад

    Incredibly useful content. 👍👍

  • @carlstenger5893
    @carlstenger5893 29 дней назад +1

    Bravo! This was a fascinating episode. Thanks so much!

  • @DrLogical987
    @DrLogical987 29 дней назад +1

    Absolutely fascinating

  • @vanessasx
    @vanessasx 27 дней назад

    So interesting !! Keep making videos

  • @SayBootsey
    @SayBootsey 28 дней назад

    Was just telling David how i'm such a noob when it comes to improvising canons. Now you drop this video. Thanks 😀 PS and "i play for you because it's nice" is hands down the best reason for music-making ever 🙂

  • @chezmeb
    @chezmeb 24 дня назад

    Wonderful. I have written canon at the unisson but I am planning to work on different intervals this summer. This will be usefull! Great video! Thanks!

  • @kamalacalderoni6006
    @kamalacalderoni6006 27 дней назад

    OMG you are fabulous! Thank you so much. That is relly fun ❤

  • @gitasong
    @gitasong 29 дней назад

    OMG-I'm in love!! 🥰🥰🥰

  • @ajjivackovic1782
    @ajjivackovic1782 29 дней назад +1

    YAY beautiful special intro

  • @RikardPeterson
    @RikardPeterson 29 дней назад +1

    In the description of what a canon is, you end with "and many other tricks" after having listed almost every kind of canon I have encountered. I'd love to learn more…

  • @ajames283
    @ajames283 29 дней назад +2

    My favorite canon over a cantus firmus is by Johann Friedrich Fasch: Canon in F Major Trio Sonata (FaWV N:F5) Strict canon at the fourth below.

  • @matteogarzetti
    @matteogarzetti 28 дней назад

    Wonderful vegetables!!!

  • @valtteripennanen4043
    @valtteripennanen4043 29 дней назад +3

    Yaas, a new video.

  • @dimitrilemeur7703
    @dimitrilemeur7703 28 дней назад

    That's so nice. I guess the philosophy would be to master this tables for canons in music as we already master the tables of addition or multiplication for numbers in maths.

  • @OlivierAtheba
    @OlivierAtheba 26 дней назад

    wow, merci

  • @adolflazary5864
    @adolflazary5864 29 дней назад

    Hola hola que alegría mis maestros queridos .
    Gracias

  • @danielfajardo9092
    @danielfajardo9092 29 дней назад +1

    I LOVE U ELAM ROTEM U DESERVE HEAVEN

  • @charleskleesattel6477
    @charleskleesattel6477 26 дней назад

    Interesting. I wish I had had this chart when I was taking 16th c. counterpoint many years ago.

  • @marie-evebouchard5572
    @marie-evebouchard5572 14 дней назад

    Another question. It seems with the cantus firmus presented in the examples that the rules from fux are not yet applied. For example the repetition of notes. It means the rules are not the same in r
    Renaissance counterpoint? Thanks.

  • @marie-evebouchard5572
    @marie-evebouchard5572 14 дней назад

    I have a question. For the seconds, thirds, sixths and seventh, does it work both with major and minor intervals?

  • @DallasCrane
    @DallasCrane 28 дней назад +1

    The mental math of delay pedals

  • @lucascecim9102
    @lucascecim9102 27 дней назад

    Shape-note singers nowadays are familiar with Fasola System of solmization.

  • @claudiofornasari1263
    @claudiofornasari1263 20 дней назад

    Dear Mr. Rotem, your channel is just a miracle for Music enthusiasts!
    Let me suggest a slight correction to this video: "canon" is not from Latin, but from ancient Greek. Thanks again for your wonderful job! All best!

  • @vannave5761
    @vannave5761 29 дней назад

    nice

  • @Sathrandur
    @Sathrandur 18 дней назад

    A small note: the word _canon_ is from Greek; indeed it is used in Latin, but it is actually borrowed there directly as a transliteration of the Greek word.

  • @lawrencetaylor4101
    @lawrencetaylor4101 29 дней назад +1

    I just discovered a treatise, Yses of Ye Olde Wah Wah Pedal.

  • @NidusFormicarum
    @NidusFormicarum 27 дней назад

    Interesting, since I have actually written two consequtive canons over a cantus firmus as a variation in a large series of variations over a Swedish children's song. The style is of course much more modern, but the basic principles are the same. In my case, I have the cantus firmus - the song - at the top and it is varied/ornamented, but that they could be ornamented pretty early in history, right? Since I have orchestrated the piece, I have added a forth part with sustained note values to make the movement feel more full and calmer, but that part is not doubled several times as the pricipal voices are.

  • @lordwilksy
    @lordwilksy 18 дней назад

    I bet Bathe was really good at Sudoku

  • @dotsonpaper
    @dotsonpaper 26 дней назад

    I look forward to each of your videos the way some people look forward to new Christopher Nolan films.

  • @PawePoskon
    @PawePoskon 9 дней назад

    Composers nerding their way out since 1596 🤓

  • @Kyrelel
    @Kyrelel 28 дней назад

    Hmm. How do you know the first note of the follower will be consonant with the cantus firmus if, at no point, is the CF note value considered.

  • @EdgarFGirtainIV
    @EdgarFGirtainIV 28 дней назад

    I bet observations 5 and 6 are there to show you how to finish the Canon!!!

  • @abracadaverous
    @abracadaverous 29 дней назад

    Now I find that I am suddenly hungry for vegetables.

  • @bifeldman
    @bifeldman 28 дней назад

    The Krell Mind Expander.

  • @brendanward2991
    @brendanward2991 29 дней назад +1

    "An English author ... the Irish Catholic William Bathe" ?

    • @user-cy1ri4wj4b
      @user-cy1ri4wj4b 28 дней назад

      Presumably implying an author who wrote and published in the English language.

  • @WilliamFord972
    @WilliamFord972 29 дней назад

    I’m early this time!

  • @richsackett3423
    @richsackett3423 28 дней назад

    Seems Observations 5&6 are included in the table in the interest of completeness beyond practical considerations.

  • @user-cy1ri4wj4b
    @user-cy1ri4wj4b 29 дней назад

    Thank heavens! Now I can write canons over a cantus firmus!
    William Bathe was not just Irish, but a convert to Catholicism who was ordained as a Jesuit priest. This method strikes me as being quite Jesuitical, in a good way.
    One notes the non-canonic voices (amusingly often described as “free voices”) in the “Goldberg” Variations canons with a sense of slightly scandalized relief.

  • @MichaelJohnson-composer
    @MichaelJohnson-composer 6 дней назад

    Great video! But HELP! don’t understand why in your explanation at 8:53, you put 1/3/6 below the third note when the CF clearly moves up a second, not a third. Why don’t you write 3/5 below the third note? You also do this in the canon writing examples toward the end of the video. The melody steps up from D to E and you write 1/3/6 as possibilities, as if the CF was moving by a third. Why?

  • @declamatory
    @declamatory 29 дней назад +1

    "It's not"

  • @HiroDeBrine
    @HiroDeBrine 25 дней назад

    Byrd's Passamezzo in its imitative sections is very reminiscent to the earlier organ/keyboard piece, "Felix Namque I" by his teacher and early contemporary Thomas Tallis (1505-1585). I find Felix Namque sounds quite interesting and modern at times due to its archaic early Tudor use of part writing. Tallis struggled to let go of the old "Eton Choirbook" native style ((especially when it came to fauxbourdon retained in his Latin polyphonic music: you can hear a bit of it if you listen to the late motets "Te Lucis Ante Terminum" and "Suscipe Quaeso Domine")) in favour of the new Italian styles arriving during the late Tudor era, one of the factors that caused Tallis' final compositions to sell very poorly.
    Felix Namque is not unique as it was common practice for organists in England, pre-reformation, to improvise or compose imitative counterpoint with repetitive melodic structures for votive Marian chants during Vespers and Compline. There are several examples of the Felix Namque chant being used and by the advent of the English Reformation, often the organ subsituted sung chant entirely. However, Tallis' work uniquely dates to the late Tudor period, unlike the other examples, when the reformation forbade the use of Latin chants and cantus firmus in a religious context, and as Felix Namque was compiled in the Fitzwilliam Virginal Book (which contains works by keyboard composers active mostly after Tallis' death, such as Sweelinck, Gibbons and Bull) it was likely well-known and used outside of the chant's context. Perhaps Tallis' impression with organ chant composition with multiple short imitations helped inspire his pupil, Byrd, in his contributions to the Virginalist school, including in Pazzamezzo, many years before contact with Bull.
    Early Music history and theory grows deeper the more you read into it, but its always, always fascinating. Lovely video as usual 👏👏👏

  • @billymeyer99
    @billymeyer99 29 дней назад

    A real brain twister.

  • @emilianodorantes2434
    @emilianodorantes2434 29 дней назад

    Let’s try…

  • @NenadStefanovicbach
    @NenadStefanovicbach 6 дней назад

    Great!! After canons there are fugues!!! Kunst der fugue!!! :)

  • @emilianodorantes2434
    @emilianodorantes2434 29 дней назад +1

    The poster of the table is a joke? Because I would like to order one of those 😂

    • @EarlyMusicSources
      @EarlyMusicSources  29 дней назад +1

      www.teechip.com/bathe

    • @gitasong
      @gitasong 29 дней назад

      You could always just make a Google spreadsheet. 😁

  • @randmorf
    @randmorf 13 дней назад

    Seems like a great application for AI (artificial intelligence).

  • @CalebePriester
    @CalebePriester 29 дней назад

    I don't understand. I must be really dumb. Sad.

    • @EarlyMusicSources
      @EarlyMusicSources  29 дней назад +1

      Believe me the problem is not yours - it's a mess

  • @mq172
    @mq172 29 дней назад

    Correction: The Magic Table that lets *AI* compose canons over a Cantus Firmus (or, as we called 'em in school: Cantus Erectus)

  • @superblondeDotOrg
    @superblondeDotOrg 29 дней назад

    Give it to AI to train on = the death of music innovation

    • @mer1red
      @mer1red 25 дней назад

      I don't look at AI as good or bad, black or white. I see an AI tool as an assistant. It is sometimes hard to keep all the rules in mind when I wrote something. If you don't have a teacher who corrects you, AI can help to signal weak spots. But the intuition, inspiration and decision to deviate from what is mathematically correct is where art comes in, and this should remain. No full automation.