Creationists Prove That We Don't Exist (Part 1, feat. Viced Rhino)
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- Опубликовано: 30 янв 2020
- Eric Hovind and Bryan Melugin (from A Bit of Orange) walk us through "the core tenets of the atheistic belief system" to prove that atheists, in fact, do not exist.
Creationists Prove That We Don't Exist - PART TWO
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"You can't have an afterlife or supernatural without a god."
*Buddhism would like to know your location*
Budhism does kind of what the other religions preach but not do....Some food for thought i would think.
Well, TECHNICALLY buddishm does have gods, they're just souls with a ton of good karma and get to burn it up by being gods
@@Mathee Depends on the branch of Buddhism.
Marconius Buddhism’s various sects have gods, ancestor worship, reincarnation and forces that act like gods.
shintoism
Imagine being a Christian who thinks Determinism is an *atheistic* belief. It's a central part of Calvinism. Predestination is essentially the same thing as Determinism, it's just given a fancier title.
@Starfall 21X Calvinism is at least honestly accepting their rhetoric over god: if it truly is beyond man's comprehension, as ALL CHRISTIANS insist, then Calvinism is 100% correct and all the others making claims about what god wants or will do are wrong.
Starfall 21X Predestination does not make our faith pointless, but if you understood the core tenets of Calvinism, you would know that. Something radical happened to the constituent nature of humanity in the fall. Everyone born since then, from the time of conception, was and is a slave to sin. If humans had free will to choose between the so called good and evil, we would always choose the evil because our will is enslaved to our nature. Predestination is God’s mechanism to bring a dead sinner to life. It is the ultimate act of grace. Predestination doesn’t make my faith pointless, but gives it its true essence and meaning.
@@davidkeen7884 except that Calvinism also posits that evil people can get into heaven and saints can go to hell. The end result of Calvinism is that actions in life have no guarantee on the destination of the afterlife.
Therefore much of the Christian doctrines of baptism, redemption, and salvation are rendered moot.
Josh Calvinism definitely doesn’t posit saints being damned and evil people being saved. Total depravity defines ALL people to be evil. God has mercy on those whom he pleases and redeems his elect so they become saints. The ones who he doesn’t redeem receive justice because of their sin and rebellion against him. Calvinism isn’t a “no matter what I do, say, or think, my plan is predetermined so let me just cross my fingers and hope I get in” theology. It’s much more nuanced.
Jesse Schoedel My apologies, I was attempting to say that the state of our current means of choice is enslaved to our nature. But yes you’re correct. That was a blunder on my part. Thank you for letting me clarify.
The creationists' constant use of "just" as in like "just random chance" or "just molecules" gets really old, really fast.
I’m just the greatest women to ever live. I wonder if I sound less narcissistic if I say it like that?
@@merikijiya13 that's just to be expected in your case! ;-)
Especially with the number of just "invoke a miracle" and just "God did it" arguments and other "just accept it/don't think too hard/don't nitpick" arguments they use.
They just don't use the WORD "just" - it's the whole meaning.
Christianity and creationism is all about redefining words to mean different things when you're not looking.
God is love. God is good. God is righteous.
God loves murdering babies, genocide, slavery, child marriage, which is good because God is loving and good and righteous and just which means he must have had good reasons for doing those things which must be good and loving and righteous things to do but also the words still have the original meanings should anyone ask.
And should anyone ask those things are bad except when we're talking about how God condoned - nay, *commanded* them, then they're good again.
Because God is good, loving, righteous of course. *Obviously* .
Oh you don't think God is good? Who are you to judge? You must be just looking to sin!
How immoral and shameful of you to no longer want to be forced into slavery your whole singular life by authoritarian God! This just shows how bad YOU are. There's definitely something wrong with YOU for not trusting God's authority!
Like the line in Watchmen:'All life on Earth will Die!'
'And the universe will not even notice.'
Humanity:
Believing in gods
and struggling to survive on a speck of dust lost in the Milky Way.
Wrong. We are the universe observing itself. We are not in the universe, we are made up of it. There is no distinction between the two. We are proof that the universe is capable of awareness, at least to a certain extent. But it's not magic or god, just the nature of reality.
"Not true, not true, not true!"
Says man who believes that some dude walked on water.
They do have some very misplaced skepticism.
@@nicolasandre9886 Misplaced skepticism sounds like an oxymoron. How can it be misplaced? I think it's that they lack any skepticism towards their own beliefs and they are naturally skeptical of anything that contradicts their beliefs. But what do I know, I might be wrong.
@@itsJPhere : being skeptical that gravity exists before taking a step off the roof of a tall building would be an example of what I would personnally call severely misplaced skepticism.
He didn’t even bother looking at what he was saying wasn’t true. And who wants to believe people who’ve done actual science when you’ve got a book made by 2000-year-old ancient dumbasses?
J P you can be skeptical on the earth being round but your skepticism is misplaced since the earth being round has been proven. 🤦♀️
"We do have free will. We have no choice."
-- Christopher Hitchens
You mean *don't* have free will (citing Sam Harris' belief)?
@Hans Hanzo I agree.
To mention, I think this is a definition problem. If I ask you whether the atoms in your brain behave differently because they are in you rather than in something else, you'll probably respond in the negative. If I ask you whether you can still go through the process of reaching a meaningful conclusion or decision in a deterministic universe, you will probably agree that you can.
Most random number generators in computers are deterministic. Does knowing the algorithm is deterministic affect how much you enjoy playing a game based on those random numbers?
So, ah, what's the fuss about?
@@tompaine4044 Look up chaos theory. There is no way to know because there is a limit to ANY prediction of a system.
For example, we know that Pluto will be in the same orbit 2 billion years from now. WE DON'T KNOW which side of the sun it will be. Not because of an error in the speed of pluto, but because chaos precludes knowing that, the prediction horizon is too short for that.
if we have no choice then we are dumb animals who deserve to die on the food chain.
Thats Christianity folks: Claiming knowledge they couldn't possibly have.
...and calling everyone who disagrees 'arrogant'.
What could be more narcissistic than claiming to know things about god(s)?
True. But to be fair, its common practice for almost every religion.
@@notwhatiwasraised2b That's one of many problems I have with fundies addressing atheists: "You atheists believe that you are just an unimportant speck of dust in the vast universe? How utterly arrogant!! I believe that the world was made especially for us, an all-powerful entity is on our side and that we christians are the most important people in the whole universe! This makes me very humble!!"
we have not only knowledge but wisdom of Creation itself.God knows atheists dont exist.
@@alexcarboni489 Nice meme
I love how they have an issue with us being just chemicals following natural laws so we dont have free will, but they have no issue at all with the idea that everything is God's will and things only happen if god wills it, which would also mean we dont have free will.
Eh, I see free will as an emergent property of consciousness.
@Andrew Stoddard Or, if there is a "block universe" (everything that ever was, is, or will be is set in stone and we are just walking our path through it) or you believe in absolute determinism (which is probably the same thing, given a fixed starting configuration), then our feeling that we have "free will" is the *perception* that we have control, which is, given all the above, just what we would be expected to think. Consciousness hasn't been pegged down much, so positing that there are emergent properties of it is a bit premature. To be honest, you probably were saying what I did, but you did it a lot more succinctly.
@Tyeler Nowell - you are free to choose, but apparently you are going to burn in hell for eternity if you don't.
Not much of a choice - more of a threat.
@Tyeler Nowell - hence the absurdity of Pascal's wager.
See, this is an extremely interesting line of thought.
The Bible has sufficient verses to demonstrate that God will enact his plan(1), no matter what you want, and that he is in complete control of everything(2)(3).
Which, when you crunch through everything, makes Yahweh a megalomaniacal monster on a power-trip. He will either have you mindlessly serve him, or you will suffer punishment beyond reason and imagination. And you will thank him for the privilidge of being his worshipper.
PS;
Citations:
(1) - Exodus 9:12 - God ignoring a person's free will to enact his plan.
(2) - Pslam 139:13 - God partakes in the creation of someone.
(3) - Psalm 147:5 - God knows everything.
While there are countless other citations I could make, I believe that highlighting even a single instance of these things in a book that's supposed to be from the all-knowing being is sufficient to back up the claims made.
Just from these alone, one can quite clearly understand that Jehova prioritizes his plan over anything, and since he is a being that understands the consequences of his actions, him taking part in the forming of someone is him basically setting a full path for that person, any everyone they interact with, and all the way down the chain to eternity the things that will happen.
If god has a plan, then we have no free will. If we can have free will despite god's plan, he isn't god.
That's it.
Logic, the enemy of faith.
I guess Calvin, as messed up his theology is, was right all along.
@@monus782 Well Hobbes was the more serious thinker, even if he WAS a stuffed tiger.
@@markhackett2302 hey he was only pretending to be stuffed
@@dodojesus4529 Calvin didn't like Tuna, but he still made a lot of sandwiches...
This is literally the argument from
"It makes me uncomfortable that everything can be explained naturally, therefore, only a God could have done it because that makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside".
They keep arguing that Atheists can't feel empathy and they can't care about their children's lives and wellbeing because the body is a collection of naturally explained phenomena? None of those things follow. How do they the explain those who specifically kill, rape, or destroy in the name of their God? Why is it that it is completely ignored here? Again, they don't understand biology so they want to feel safe and comfortable in their ignorance because the final outcome makes them happy. For being so completely un self aware, they sure do bring it up often.
I yelled at my screen a couple of times during both parts, so clearly a job well done Paul and Rhino!
One in a million is not a miracle, it's just statistics. :-)
As they say, if you're one in a million, there are eight of you in New York.
@@simongiles9749 If there are only 8 million residents in NYC, I will buy a Yankees jersey and wear it to my Rays home opener!
@@simongiles9749 Well I just Googled the population for NYC. 8.623 million. Does my jersey have to be the home pinned-stripes version? I would have guessed NYC had 25+ million. Then again I have an IQ just shy of 'moron'. Well I have to search Amazon for a Yankees jersey.
@@theoskeptomai2535 To be fair, I guess most of them move around a lot and make a lot of noise so it seems like more ☺
@@simongiles9749 Made me laugh. :-)
How is a purely natural universe more deterministic than a universe with an all-knowing, all-powerful God? The only difference is God is aware of and in control of the outcome. And if he is a consistent and logical entity, then his own behavior must be pre-determined by his engrained nature and whatever circumstances he exists in (an idea even Christians dip in to if hell or blood sacrifice comes up). Of course he might exist “outside time and circumstance,” but this just pushes him into vague territory that’s so unexplained that it’s not an explanation. So maybe we should park on the inevitable consequences of YOUR worldview for a minute.
Nice to see you here, Zod. :)
Hello Zod you amazing man you
It's even worse than you say because determinism is a necessary part of reconciling free will and god's omniscience. Only if choices were made "earlier" (say, at time's origin), they play out deterministically from there and then a voyeuristic god becomes omniscient afterward can those concepts coexist. If god is omniscient during the "free" period or if he dips his big toe in knowing how the ripples will unfold, everything comes crashing down.
"How is a purely natural universe more deterministic than a universe with an all-knowing, all-powerful God?"
-I'd say it's the opposite....
Oswlek Exactly. And if he has those traits AND exists outside time, then he literally created all your sins at the moment of creation.
Here we see what I consider to be one of the most powerful arguments for the existence of a God: “I do not personally like the implications of there not being a God, therefore, there is.”
That's it. Bullseye.
"“I do not personally like the implications of there not being a God, therefore, there is.”'
That is an argument for BELIEVING in a god, not for the existence of a god.
By the way that is William Lane Craig's excuse for promoting his long disproved religion. He doesn't want a universe without an afterlife.
Well neither do I but what I want does NOT change reality.
Ethelred Hardrede
We did it! We stopped atheism!
If it was just that I wouldn't have any problem with that logic. Sadly, they're trying to make people go along with it and thus it can be very annoying(like Eric going in a museum and being loud as fuck!)😣
If you are not being facetious that would count as opinion not fact.
If I had a nickel for every time a theist told me what I think and feel...
Elon Musk called. He would like to buy your company
Underrated 😂
It's not a "debate" with a Christian without being gaslit by the Christian.
@@BigFatWedgedoes Elon still have the money? 😂 Or is he an X- billionaire now? 😉
"Not true, not true, not true." Almost like someone looking trough the Bible. Or Eric's dad's lectures...
You forgot the air-quotes for the word "lectures" there...
Lol they didn't even make an argument against materialism they just went "I don't like that!"
O....m....g.... Paulogia *and* Viced Rhino together?? Epic!!
Is it bad that I automatically hit the like button, even before I viewed the video?
Edit: I still liked the video after viewing it
Edit 2: getting real for a moment, Paulogia was one of the first channels I began watching in my quest to search for rational and reasoned approach to Christianity and the ideas their proponents put forth. I wasn't raised in a Christian household, but I grew up in a society that definitely pressured me into thinking in a biblical/Christian way, and Paulogia's channel really helped me decide if I was thinking for myself, or if I was thinking in the way that Christian teachings tend to make people think. Paulogia, I think you are an absolute treasure when it comes to questioning the beliefs that are placed upon an individual, and I hope you continue your work, because I see (through your work, and others you support) how teachings can become beliefs, and how these beliefs can craft an individuals understanding of the world we live in
*40Cal* I hit the Like button as soon as Paul said this :
Eric : "We're gonna discuss that topic and I want that discussion to happen ..with you."
Paul : "I reeally don't think you do."
With Paul's videos I tend to hit like pretty early on in it. Mostly because he starts it off so awesome.
Hitting the like button is how I know which of Paulogia's videos I've watched, since creationist logic is sometimes hard to differentiate at first blush. Does that make me a bad person?!?
@@tompaine4044 Not a bad strategy.
Strong agree!
11:13 "...there's just time, space, matter and energy..."
Ooooohhhh so close. Poor guy. Little did he know that matter and energy is the same thing, just electromagnetism. I think we can forgive him for not knowing about the strong or weak nuclear forces, or gravity. or that nothing is made from time and space. I guess he just felt the need to replace fire, air, earth and water with four other random words. Because....bunnies!!!
@David Parry I honestly don't know, he does kill them, in sometimes incredibly cruel ways. Just go visit a children's hospital cancer ward one day, then come tell me again how much he loves them. It confuses the crap out of me.
@David Parry Yea look, if you don't see the problem, there's literally nothing I can say, that would help you see it. Think of it this way, gravity is a myth, this planet just sucks really hard.
This is inaccurate, though. Energy and matter are demonstrably *not* the same thing. It would be more accurate to claim energy and *mass* are the same thing, but even then, that stops being true once you consider quantum field theory.
There exist two types of quantum fields. These are the fermionic fields and the bosonic fields. What we call matter is just the fermionic fields interacting together. So for example, up quarks and electrons are excitations of the up quark field and electron field, respectively. However, photons, which are excitations of the electromagnetic field, are not matter, because the electromagnetic field is bosonic, not fermionic. Needless to say, this alone should tell you that energy and matter are not the same thing. Energy is a property of quantum fields, and matter is a specific type of quantum field. Mass is one of the quantum numbers by which we identify those fields, but in certain interactions, that mass is completely equivalent to energy, and this becomes even more established at the macroscopic level.
As for space and time, it would be more accurately to talk about spacetime. It does not make much sense to talk about space and time separately unless we are working with classical physics.
Paulogia drawn in Viced Rhino's style: adorable.
Viced Rhino drawn in Paulogia's style: nightmare fuel.
Me: Hey cool Paulogia made a video!
Viced Rhino: Hello there.
@@masscreationbroadcasts How did I find Paulogia? Viced Rhino. What happens in the third video I watch of Paulogia? Viced Rhino.
General Kenobi
@@akoskormendi9711 there we go
Fan of, and subscribed to, both of these guys. Nice to see a collab. Good job, guys!
I despise that open argument. "Atheists believe there is no gods". I like to think of it more like "you believe X, why?"
The problem is that the theists can't prove even that wrong. They cannot prove "there are no gods" wrong.
Scuba Steve at least we know what definition he’s using
@@CaseyShontz doesnt make it any better when they are chasing a red herring. Makes the argument stunted and unnecessary. You end up having to walk back their entire argument instead of starting at an amicable beginning. I just find it rude and dishonest.
I can not stand the “if we are just molecules/chemicals in motion” assertion. We are not “just” anything. We are a complex arrangement of multiple molecules and chemicals with varying aspects of each working together. We are more than the sum of our parts. Saying a chair is “just wood” doesn’t detract from its usefulness. Saying it’s “just light waves/particles bouncing around” doesn’t diminish my justification for preferring green over blue. But then again, these are “just words” on a computer screen. How could they mean anything?
The example I use, that usually shuts them up, is that "the bible is just a bunch of words."
@@goldenalt3166 How does that shut them up?
They even call it "God's Word", so the fact that it's a book, and by definition a collection of words, can't be lost on them, can it...?
@@autobotstarscream765 My sample size is 2, so the effect may not even exist. So far I haven't controlled for other variables maybe it shuts up atheists, too.
It illustrates the fallacy of division in a context they haven't been immunized against, which gives them new perspective when looking at their own arguments.
I think they are arguing "but if I'm just material, I'm not super special and I don't like that so, god must exist cause that makes me feel better about myself. "
God existing is about as likely as Eric working a day in his life
@ well, to be fair, it was Kent, not Eric, who went to jail for tax fraud.
@@Shake69ification you know what they say, like father like son (I'm not being serious with this by the way)
Hey, Im sure Eric works very hard at his gymnastics.
If the Christian god is omnipotent then why do Christians disagree on their belief in that god?
Which Christians and the blasphemers to the true belief.
You can't claim that your god is perfect in wisdom and disagree over that wisdom, it's either self-evident or contentious, you can't have both.
The ever present intrinsic dishonesty of faith, and an excellent argument for the extermination of religious belief, preferably by choice, but if not, by elimination.
@Shameless Papist
Your shamelessness is on full display. That's the internet equivalent of walking around with your fly open.
Christians simply state there was no true christian until their particular bunch of doctrines was invented, usually post 1960's.
@Shameless Papist
Your response was rather incoherent, but it sounds a bit like the "I can give a real response so that excuses me being a real asshole this time" argument.
soon that will be rectified by the coming 2 witnesses who will bring GOD"s words to light.
There are many things I lack a belief in. Why aren't they arguing about my lack of belief that the pyramids were built by aliens?
Creationist logic is it true unless you can show otherwise. So they would have to agree with you that aliens built the pyramids.
@@karlgoldsmith8047 despite the vast amount of evidence that you know, they threw a good amount of manpower and equipment like cranes, scaffoldings, stonemason tools, just to raise a damn grave...
Because we all know aliens built the pyramids duh 🙄 how else would they get there? By people working tirelessly to build a specific architectural structure? Ha! You sound like an atheist! Always trying to make sense of things. It’s magic damnit!
I dont think Eric is a moron, but unfortunately my beliefs dont change the reality of the situation.
Moron or not, he's still dishonest.
@@LukeSumIpsePatremTe very much so, yes.)
I see what you did there 😊
@@LukeSumIpsePatremTe Nomen tuus mihi placet!
We gotta love the moron, hate the moronicism. Or not.
"Predetermined goals" has profound consequences on soccer and hockey😈
Yes new Paulogia!!! And it's a viced rhino collab!!
I love this team up. Great work!
14:45 ish - so basically the guy accurately describes the universe, and then says its insane because he doesn't like it... :p
Great video. As a patron of both of you, I really enjoyed this video. Thanks! And definitely feel free to collaborate again soon.
I’ve tried and tried, and I can’t bring myself to be troubled over the lack of free will thing. Who cares whether a long chain of events leads to your every thought and move? From the subjective perspective that we all live in day-to-day, we seem to have free will. You can allow yourself to fall into a existential crisis by constant working back along the determined chain, or just live your life. At this point, I 100% subscribe to determinism, but it hasn’t affected my daily life one bit. I just don’t get the problem.
Jon West I think the problem comes from not the lack of control over yourself but the apparent loss of control over yourself. Christians are taught from a young age that they are in complete control over their lives and that this is a great gift god bestowed upon them. Allowing them to choose either heaven or hell. Going from absolute certainty that your life is your own, you choose where you end up for the most part, that that is a great thing to be able to do to determinism can be very jarring and honestly terrifying. It’s the loss of apparent control over yourself that affects these people so much. People become scared they’re destined for horrible things and they can’t do anything to change that or that God has destined them for hell. Christianity kinda requires free will to function and to an extent so do it’s followers.
@@lokir9959 I would just like to point out that the qualities of the Christian God literally makes it so it's impossible for free will to exist. Now before we begin I have to say that when I was growing up in a christian household I was taught that the God is all powerful, all loving and all knowing. Now the first two things have plenty of their own problems but for the purpose of my arguement I will use the last one all knowing. Since God knows everything that means he knows what happened, what is happening and what will be happening. Thus if God knows what will happen that means that I myself am never able to make a choice (at least according to orange boy) thus free will is another one of God's lies he kept telling us (or better yet there is no god or at least not the one we read about in the bible).
But yeah that silly thing aside I don't believe that there is a free will, because if I was sent back in time without having the knowledge of my present self I would most likely made the same decisions I made back then. Tho when it comes to silly things I hope are real (tho they are probably not) I do believe that there are multiple universes each one containing a world that split from ours after someone made a decision.
@@lokir9959 This is totally not true. Christians have taught god controls everything and everything thing is part of his plan. Every decision you will ever make is from gods plan ever before you were born. You dont choose god but god chooses you. This is why you have free will. Athiest are so dumb and just dont get how much god loves you and why the cancer he gives children is for his glory and plan, forever and ever.
It's not as though you'd have a choice about whether or not to be troubled by it.
@@lokir9959 Christians are also taught that god is in control of everything and nothing happens against his plan.
One of the best Paulagia episodes I've seen yet! I especially loved the responses about naturalism and morality. Perfection! 👩🍳
Awesome Part One, Now on with Part Two.
I love it when you two collaborate!
“If atheism is true”
I knew it was gonna be good
If no gods exist then atheism is true.
@@LuciferAlmighty if no gods exist then the claim there are no gods is true. The common definition of atheism, a disbelief in any god or gods, cannot be true or false as it isn't a claim, it's a lack of one.
@Crazy Jesse how are you defining christian, atheist, and theist? A theist exists whether or not a god does, as the general definition is someone who believes in a god or gods. An atheist as I said earlier is someone who doesn't believe in any god or gods and a christian is an individual who believes in the specific abrahamic god as well as christ's doctrine in the new testament.
All of those beliefs and disbeliefs exist regardless of whether or not a god exists.
@Crazy Jesse the proposition does, demonstrably exist. Thus people who reject, accept, or disbelieve the contents of said proposition also exist.
@@siriuslywastaken if no gods exist atheism is true, you can't get out of this. Atheism is most definitely a claim.
Has somebody left the cabinet with the Silly Juice left unlocked again? Eric seems to have binged AGAIN... *sigh*
Yay! Two of my favorites collaborating!
"you start from your conclusions and work backwards from there"
I instantly heard "Ham and AIG, Ham and AIG..."
A better man than me once said:
"We are the Universe,looking at itself"
I need no God to accept that fact.
And that point of view is better than believing we are somebody's playthings.
Just for the record. I don't think that I am enough of a masochist to watch a two part series that involves Eric Hovind, you guys, you guys go enjoy yourselves. 😁. Great video.
My day just improved 150% to see this in my notifications!!
"The only appeal it is attempting to offer is truth"
Preach! I've now watched dozens of your videos apart, and I only just found this collab. You both show the fallacies and improper reasoning that make Christian arguments so convincing. You're my heroes, and this is my favorite video (plus part 2) of yours that I've seen. Thank you!
Nothing quite like someone telling us how we think, especially someone whose financial and power base requires them to be as deceitful as possible.
"If you had a computer, capable of finding every subatomic particle in the universe, and you could mach out their mass and their velocity and all of those factors, and you could follow it forward in time..."
Actually, quantum mechanics forbids this. Literally. See Hisenberg's uncertainty principle. Long story short you can't know the exact position and velocity of any particle, left alone all of them. Like not "it's practically impossible" kind of impossible, but "It's forbidden by laws of nature" kind. And if I'm not mistaken it's actually PROVEN, that randomness in QM is true randomness, and is not some unknown hidden mechanism. There is a relatively simple experiment with light passing through a series of polarizing filters, that proves it.
The double slit experiment...
Great team up.
Love this collab
Yiggity Yeet! Viced rhino and Paul.
“Of course we have free will, the big boss told us so”
We definitely need some more Rhino & Paul together in this winter season of 2022.
I would love to see you make a video on Aquinas and his 5 points!
6:19 If god doesn't exist than it follows that angels don't exist because I can't wrap my head around other supernatural beings existing with my god didn't create them. - *Argument from stupidity*
I really don't get how the think this is a logical argument at all.
You are correct in your observation that it isn't a logical argument at all - BUT I try to show you why Eric&Bryan "feel" it would be with a comparison you might understand more easily: Imagine you have a person who deeply loves Music by Elvis Presley - the King of rocknroll. The love for his music goes so far that the person is convinced he/she has a deeply personal relationship with Presley - even when Elvis is already dead - the person is convinced Elvis dead is just a conspiracy and the "King lives". Now when you argue: Well there is this and that music, like Korean pop or Classic music. The Elvis-Lover when as irrational as the creationists like Eric Hovind will argue: HOW dare you! There is and was never any other music than the music of the king! All other "so called music" is just noises! NOISES! *NOOIIISES* !!!" And when you then explain in all calmness to them: "Please listen to yourself you basically deny music instruments, Beethoven, Bach, country music, the music of China, folklore, hip hop ...." you will just argue against a brick wall and deaf ears, beause what "music" is for the irrational Elvis-Lover is only what came from Elvis mouth himself and there basically exist no outside, no other music but the personal imagined ideas of the love image associated with Elvis Presley - for that person. So the "argument" there comes literally from the emotional attachment that "supernature" and "angels" etc. are only vestigial appendixes of Jesus in their minds, like "Music" and "music instruments" in general isI/are for the delusional Elvis-is-still-alive-person also only existing when it came from the mouth of the "King of Rockn'Roll".
@@Angelmou Interesting argument, but Elvis Presley is the king of rock 'n roll, Michael Jackson is the king of pop.
@@autobotstarscream765 *corrected
Consider being an atheist? Like it's a choice on a restaurant menu? Of course atheism is a conclusion one comes to, after listening to arguments and reviewing all the evidence (or lack thereof).
At least that's how it worked for me.
No, Atheism is like eating at home. And ignore the menu at the restaurant.
@@tabularasa0606 or eating like at home at the sort of restaurant that doesn't offer more than plate decorations and continuing hunger.
Unfortunately there is plenty of logical arguments to prove the exsitance of a Creator. Not the God from the Bible but a unmoved mover, or uncaused cause. To ignore the argument is ignorance.
@Timothy Mostad Our senses prove that some things are in motion.
Things move when potential motion becomes actual motion.
Only an actual motion can convert a potential motion into an actual motion.
Nothing can be at once in both actuality and potentiality in the same respect (i.e., if both actual and potential, it is actual in one respect and potential in another).
Therefore nothing can move itself.
Therefore each thing in motion is moved by something else.
The sequence of motion cannot extend ad infinitum.
Therefore it is necessary to arrive at a first mover, put in motion by no other; and this everyone understands to be God.
@@souzajustin19d
No, quantum physics quite clearly suggests that the "big bang" has no need for any interaction to turn unstable.
I got an ad from WLC before this video. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it's one you've covered already
This was a very enjoyable breakdown, both parts
Therapist: "Realistic Viced Rhino isn't real. Realistic Viced Rhino can't hurt you."
Realistic Viced Rhino:
This reminds me of the Matrix.
"You have already made the choice Neo. Now you just need to understand it."
11:11 Maybe the wind does not require a wind worker... But there must be a Wind Waker!
Paulogia and Viced Rhino. Love it
The concept of "If you are considering atheism..." is just not valid to me. What I considered was theism. I determined that it had ginormous flaws in it (every single theistic variation I've been exposed to). Ergo atheism. I never said or thought anything like 'Hmm, have you seen that atheism? That has real promise!'
He seems to think that atheism is just another religion, and we recruit kids on the Internet. Like how some people think gay people are recruiting straight people.
@@swolejeezy2603 I was born atheist, and recruited by theists before I reached kindergarten. Fortunately it didn't take very well. Also, I'm gay, and straight people continually try to recruit me.
Exactly, it's not an active choice someone makes... and there are more options; better options than Christianity, that's for sure.
You're right, Eric. There is a bunch of shit there that isn't true. It's none of the stuff you pointed at, though.
You two should hit the comedy circuit! The leprechaun analogy had my thighs splitting!😂 I’ll try to gift you both pots of gold with my wand. One sec… *Poof* 🐸🐸
Oops. Oh Wellrrrribbit. 😁
Paul AND Rhino? Christmas came really early this year. Throw in POZ and you’ve got my trinity 😀
I always wondered what a cartoon version of Viced Rhino would look like
But... he was already a cartoon?
@@Alex-0597
He's most likely being punny. 😉
"sorry I can't come to work today, I don't exist!"
thanks to the two of you for this two part series!
one point i disagree is rhino believing that it does not harm to live as if there was free will.
i strongly disagree because people around me doing just this is precisely why i made to suffer and cannot get out of the suffering.
as long as people believe that free will makes some work harder and earn more money and others be poor, poor people like me will not get sufficient support to be able to survive. (i cannot even affort three meals a day, and people keep telling me to work more as if i could, it is not my free will choice that my body cannot do more than it already does).
as long as people believe that poverty, undereducation, lack of knowledge or unemployment or stress or bullying or crime etc were linked to free will, people will blame individuals instead of the true causes in the structure of our societies. we will never end crime if we keep thinking that the perpetrator had free will. but we will end crime if we eliminate the elements in society that cause people to do criminal actions.
we will never eliminate poverty if we keep blaming the individual. but we will end poverty if we change the societal structure in the necessary ways.
we will never get rid of destructive stress if we keep blaming the person experiencing the stress. but we will get rid of it if we change society in the necessary ways.
we will never end bullying or exploitation or abuse if we keep thinking that the victim or the perpetrator were the problem. they are not. because free will does not exist. but we will end these scourges when we treat the structural causes in our societies.
a bully bullies because he can and nothing is stopping him. implement efective mechanisms to stop him , and he will stop.
Paul, please tell me what that intro theme is. I would like to find it to listen to. Thank you, keep up the good work.
I'm not an atheist. I'm an atheist.
Zathras deals with that all the time. He's confused with other Zathras based on looks alone. It's all in subtle stress on enunciation that you can tell them apart.
Had to put B5 reference when those creationist loons tried to bait and switch.
Zathras like that you remember Zathras. Other Zathras do not like, but Zathras like. Zathras is an atheist, Zathras is not an atheist!
Edison Carter - At least there is symmetry.
When it comes to the question of morality, they're stuck in the same boat we are. Where does objective morality come from? Humans? Why do we decide what is or isn't "good" and "moral"? Who are we to decide what goal we should communally tend toward?
At the same time, we can ask the same of god. Why should god decide what we do? Why should he be the arbiter of morality? Who is to decide what goal we should collectively reach? (And side-note: If morality is objective then he's irrelevant. Morally MUST be subjective to a god to have any power to impose it.)
ive personally considered the morality to be a natural result of us being pack animals.
what is percieved as beneficial for the pack is good and moral, what is percieved as detrimental for the pack is evil or immoral.
i think its pretty much the only system of morality that allows us to do atrocities to people we consider outsiders and still think of ourselves as the good guys.
think feminists destroying lives of (innocent or not) men by claiming sexual harrasment, getting them fired from their jobs, or worse, serve long sentences in prison.
think mafia being fine with murder but saving a life by talking to the police of plans of murder is a betrayal.
think suicide bombing. murder in the name of your god for greater good.
stuff that will make you a hero in your own community (pack), but something evil in the eyes of the receiving end.
and for a simple reason, evolution.
packs able to trust eachother, packs working together for common goal, packs with unified military with high discipline.
survive and prosper over packs filled with selfish people.
strength in numbers and whatnot.
@Matthew Minor
Morality is the behavior that is necessary for social beings to live together in groups. We needed to have some trust in our fellow man in order to survive, and those who prove themselves untrustworthy are outcasts, without the support of the clan. Morality means that you follow the rules of the group, therefore the group looks out for your well-being ...and therefore it confers an evolutionary advantage. Other social species of animals have a morality of their own. No gods required.
@@annk.8750 yes, but that is still subjective. There is an evolutionary drive for that, yes. But in the end, the goal is arbitrary. There's no reason why we should consider such behavior "good".
The point I was trying to make is that theists don't have any grounds for objective morality either. I understand the evolutionary drive for our morality and why it is the way it is. But I am also aware that the only reason we consider human survival and wellbeing "moral" is because of evolutionary programming. That goal is arbitrary and subjective.
Just like saying it's moral because "god says so" makes morality subjective. It would just be god's subjective morality instead of human or evolutionary subjective morality.
@@taproot0619
Well that's kind of true, though there's a little more than evolutionary drive behind our grounds for morality.
It's subjective but that doesn't default to arbitrary. I.e. "Subjective morals aren't arbitrary."
We are a highly social species and our survival depends on the group. We are naturally revolted towards the idea of causing harm, let alone killing, a member of our group. We are inclined to bond and protect members of our group.
On the consequentalist side, most people reason that killing is wrong because it deprives a person of everything, and moreover, it causes harm to other people, the people who love or depend on that person, the group that person forms part of.
Empathy is something where born with regardless of how it function mechanicaly be it a circuit in the brain, environmental triggers or both.
It's why everyone educated on the subject says "developed"
and not the term learned.
Empathy is critically important, because it enables humans to understand each others' preferences and work towards win-winoutcomes that leave everyone better off than when they started.
From a selfish perspective, this lets individuals "win" in the long-run, by forging mutually beneficial alliances while avoiding unnecessary conflict.
We evolved empathy in order to survive efficiently as a group.
Along side this empathy we developed our moral compasses to help decern what we "felt" was right from what we "knew" was right.
If there is no valid concept of good and evil then we as humans will create one. Likewise if there is no God then we will invent one.
"Si Dieu n'existait pas, il faudrait l'inventer."
"Voltaire."
Translation: If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.
Simple: If God did not exist, we would have to invent him
What it means: Voltaire believes in God as a temporary neccessity for early human development but if someone proved God didn't exist, people would have to invent God.
What Voltaire is talking about isn't the validity of believeing but the transition of prehistoric man to modern man. Essentialy the evolution of our need to understand. He saw it as a neccesary step to invent a "god of the gaps" to fill in the gaps in our understanding as we didn't have the means to answer the deeper questions on our own. He didn't see it as something to last as once we were capabel to answer the questions by ourselves it was to be discarded.
By our nature, we're answer seekers and a god was how we gained our answers before we had the tools to go find the "real" answers ourselves. We no longer need God but most still hang on to the old religion(s) out of tradition and habit.
Hello Everyone.
To be brief, here's how i see it.
Morals are a social Construckt, in essence an amalgamation of the human experience and human empathy.
We know The bible and other scripture was written by ancient man.
What the theists can't get to grips with is that their beliefs indeed are based on "nothing". That they are in the very same boat we are in and that their morals are as "subjective" as ours. That their morals are ultimately derived from the same *"original source" ours are while predicated on scripture which in turn were predicated/derived from said "original source"
...
*Original Source = Evolved Human Empathy and the subsequent invention of the *moral compass as based on the amassed human experience.
*Moral compass = Social Construckt - Unique only as by Culture.
Everything else in this video aside, something about Rhino's avatar here is extremely aesthetically pleasing to me. Kudos to the artist.
I love how Paul and Viced keep blinking lol nice touch
That giant Rhino gave me a heart attack XD
"Natural," in scientific methodology, is just things that we can actually interact with/observe in a meaningful, measurable way.
"Supernatural," by definition, is a concept that is beyond meaningful, measurable, interaction.
For instance, if I say, "this room is full of gold," & you say, "Where? I don't see any." Then I say, "It is invisible."
You say, "Let me touch it." I say, "It can't be felt by physical touch." You say, "How can I know it is there?" I say, "An old book says that you have to believe it's there."
You say, "B.S.. You're most likely either deluded, or pulling my leg." The same as most people would. That there is no gold in the room except as a fiction in my head is the most reasonable explanation, don't you agree?
If you go on further to use other instruments & methods of detection, such as those able to detect objects in other ways, such as radar, ultrasound, infrared, weighing the building, swinging bats and hitting nothing, until we run out of ways to check, and still find nothing but air in each instance, doesn't our confidence in your no-gold-here conclusion continue to increase?
Furthermore, if I claim that the gold answers prayer & have believers in the divine gold pray to it, & you find that the prayers produce results mostly indistinguishable from random chance, doesn't your confidence go up?
If we followers of the "Ancient Book of Dense Shiny Undemonstrable Substance" say that we are better in specific ways for following the teachings, then you find, through careful, painstaking investigation, with an army of honest investigators that the opposite tends to be true, won't you feel that us "Shinies" have been thoroughly disproven?
I love your intro so much! Where does that music come from?
i believe the term troll came from fishing. dragging lines behind your boat is referred to as trolling.
Just out of curiosity, do you plan on having any response to SJ thomason's contention in one of her last videos that your points about the relative lack of evidence for the resurrection have no merit? I don't have Twitter and suppose you might respond there, but I was wondering if you would respond either in a dedicated video or off hand comment or just in the comment section of a video or in the community section of your Channel.
Can you point to where she makes the remark?
I wanted to just throw something in here, this is not an answer to whatever she claims, but it does describe fairly accurately why I personally do not consider things such as the resurrection of Christ worthwhile as debate topics.
Let us assume that it has been proven, beyond the shadow of any doubt, that Christ was indeed buried and when they later came to, he was found alive.
What could possibly convince an atheist / agnostic that it is more likely God resurrected Christ, than that Christ was buried alive?
I have as of yet not heard or come up with any piece of evidence that could lead me to "God did it" instead of somehow, for some reason, they buried him alive.
@@jarldue123 her recent video from a couple days ago about historical and extra biblical evidence for the resurrection. If you go to 21:40, right at the end, she says it. I would have no problem with her saying that she disagrees with him and giving her reasons why. Paul is a much more thorough scholar and more capable debater than she is, but he would never dismiss what she says as being entirely without merit. If there was contemporaneous extrabiblical evidence for the life of Jesus, his crucifixion, and his burial in an identified tomb, I would definitely take it for an open question as to why remains could not be found if the tomb was empty. None of those is present. I'm not a mythicist, but I do think Richard Carrier and others present an interesting case, and the only reason they are able to do so is because the assumed overwhelming evidence for the life and death of Jesus simply isn't there, let alone evidence for crucifixion, burial, and the disappearance of the body
@Sam Bacon while I agree in principle with your assessment, technically there are the Gospels written decades later as well as later extra-biblical referencing of Christians believing in it. That still doesn't amount to a hill of beans, but it is there.
@@stevegeorge6880 Gospels are not evidence any more than TLotR is evidence of Hobbits.
That makes no sense. If something (Atheism) exist the those that believe it (Atheist) don't exist. How does that even follow?
It follows if you reduce atheism to a very concrete definition, saddle it with other no related concepts, and then claim that believers in what is true (if atheism is true) dont exist, because there are people that dont believe in what is true (if atheism is true)
"Only recently have clouds become a place to pack up your photos."
That quote has me rolling. I now will never see a cloud without my thousands of cat photos plastered all over it. Thanks Paul. :)
I like the Groundhog Day clip. I thought of the multiverse and string theory too.
*Facts And Logic Destroy Theist Nonsense Every Time*
The problem is logic and reason destroy Atheist every time. That's why both are wrong.
@@souzajustin19d How do you arrive at the claim you've made? Be as specific as possible.
@@LouisGedo In the realm of logic and reason what we call philosophy, there is valid arguments on both sides. Neither are absolute, meaning neither are correct.
@@souzajustin19d Even if it's true that we can't be 100% certain about anything (which I'm not necessarily agreeing to), that doesn't in any way shape or form mean that it's even remotely rational to dismiss everything argued. That's just lunacy to do that.
@@LouisGedo "both sides have valid arguments" what would that mean in an argument for and against the exsitance of God?
Hi
I did not have high expectations for this title but I learned a lot.
The great feature of You Tube is the opportunity to meet enlightened sages like Eric and Bryan
explain the impossibility of anyone holding a different opinion fro theirs.
Just like a Theist to cover their eyes and ears, stamp their feet and deny they're wrong 🤣
We don't exist guys, we can give up the ghost 👻 🤣
@Marilyn Newman I guess we could also cover our eyes and ears, crawl into a cupboard and assume the foetal position? 😲 🤣
I already gave up the Holy Ghost when I became an atheist, and now you want me to give up *another* ghost!? 👻
Sigh. I'll go find a bedsheet.
@@leyrua Lol 😂 🤣 now that's what I'm talking about! 🤣 ♥
Wow. That was lame, even to Hovind's and Melugin's standards.
Very good video.
Interesting video.
Creationists exist so Scientologists have someone to laugh at.
ROTFL
Why do they constantly push some weird idea that all athiests believe the same set of things, besides not believing in gods? There's no manual with a set of rules to be athiest.
I am totally with Rhino on this. In the famous case of Patient H.M. who lost the ability to make memories but was otherwise normally rational, the hospital staff could absolutely predict what he would do and say, day after day.
15:17 In my experience, this is exactly how religious people generally establish what is "true", and why there are so many religions, sects and denominations.
Yeah nah I'm done, not gonna continue with this shit where a Christian asserts my belief for me...luv you Rhino and Paul, I'm out
Just looking at Eric's first statement...
If atheism is true, then no atheists exist!
Going by the same logic, if a god exist, then no theists exist should be equally true. Shouldn't it? 🤔
Given how annoying they are, i wouldn't be surprised.
"One more word and i'll get out my smiting rod!"
Re: Free Will.
When is free will? When the plan is made. When a possible future is imagined and choices made as to what will happen in the future. The closer in time to an action the less choice.
28:13 No no no. It's like turning that little knob to adjust the toaster. Whether there's a free will or not, talking to others about morality does impact the actions they take.
Thumbnail Rhinoceros : *I aM gRoOT!*
STRONK Rhino
Every argument against atheism:
Atheism is Anti-theism.
The courtroom analogy is so often misunderstood that I prefer to use my own.
Two people approach me and one says a house I've never seen, and they've never seen, is blue (God exists). The other one says it's red(no god).
I don't believe either one of them, because I've never seen the house.
When I say I don't believe it's blue, you do nothing by telling me that I think it's red.
Desolate Hound Sounds like the black and white fallacy.
And if it's red, there is no purpose in life, and you're worthless.
@@babotond thats not what that means but lets just pretend for a second you're right, so what exactly? doesn't make it true or untrue all that claim does is defend the idea we should hold on to a belief because it makes us feel better rather than its accurate. get a better argument that isn't fallacious in multiple ways next time
i so wanted that tub that got labeled cearal to get filled with orange juice or something not cereal lol
1:00 This is Eric’s new friend Brian, The GOOFBALL he took to that museum last year..