One thing trainers always seem to forget is that most people (even strong ones) can do zero to a very pull-ups. It takes forever for most to get to a point where they can bang out enough reps to make a set, let alone multiple sets.
I’ve been bulking recently and started out only being able to do 2 pull ups but i make it a set. After 2 weeks of doing im now at 4 pull ups. So it’s possible
I literally neglected isolation arm exercises for most of my first year of lifting and my arms have no definition you need to isolate the muscle. Since I have incorporated isolation exercises my arms are growing!
@Saud forget bout it yeah but they make it seem like compound movements can build smaller body parts like biceps and triceps which aren’t really the case. A guy who does bench press and dips will not have biceps as big and strong as someone who uses isolation exercises to target that muscle specifically. There’s a reason why typically powerlifters and calisthenics athletes have smaller arms than bodybuilders who use isolation exercises. Compound movements are great, but they’re not the best for smaller muscle groups.
Ive been lifting for 20+ years by now and I can only agree what has been concluded in the podcast. This is my personal experience for maximum arm growth. 1- Monday for instance :Chest, shoulders and triceps (only close grip bench and weighted dips for triceps. 2. Wednesday :Back, Neck/Traps and Biceps (again only weighted close grip chinups for Biceps) 3. Add an additional day only for arm isolation with lower weight higher reps. In my opinion the best and quickest results for arms
@@Khaled-F you’re not grasping what they are saying. They aren’t saying normal benching and pull-ups will get your arms bigger than if you incorporate isolation work...they are saying tweak those compound lifts so that most of the recruitment is shifted to the arms. And they didn’t say to ignore isolation work either, but rather use it as a compliment..like your triceps priority list should be close grip bench/weighted dips, then some various isolation exercises that vary elbow angle and emphasize the different heads. Same as how you would never prioritize lateral raises to pressing on your shoulder days.
@@mattymat1616 I never said that they are entirely against doing isolation work. Of course, they also have isolation stuff in their training. Otherwise if you don’t incorporate any isolation work, then you aren’t bodybuilding anymore at that point. Also, yes, they do say one is better than the other. Sal does say at the start that non of the isolation movements build as much muscle for biceps/triceps as compound movements do, and I don’t agree with this. Sure, a close grip bench press would allow you to put more weight but that extra load/weight is divided across your chest, front delts, and triceps. So, technically you aren’t really putting any extra load on the tricep itself. Also, way easier to feel your triceps in skull crushers than close grip bench press, and there’s way more activation. This is just from personal experience and everyone I talk to at the gym as well. Lastly, I never told anyone to not do compound movements. In the end, you will always do compound movements for your chest/back with exercises such as pull ups or flat bench press regardless of what you prefer on arm day. So compound movements are never really neglected, isolation movements are. For arms: isolation > compound
I didn’t isolate for my first 10 years lifting as to avoid looking like a bro lifter. My arms were fine and I developed the rest of my body proportionally, no complaints. But, for some reason I started to throw in a dedicated arm day about two months back for the first time and my arms have exploded. Never received more compliments on any other part of my body.
If you only do compound exercises for arms you will look athletic. If you add direct, single joint exercises for arms you will look impressive! You choose.
@@Tazy50 literally one of the best methods in growing your biceps lol not everyone wants to look like arnie, calisthenics is great for the aesthetic shredded look
Best bicep exercise for me has been close grip pull downs squeezing at the bottom of the movement and drag curls.for triceps overhead presses and dips.
Lots of criticism on here from people who are bought into the unnatural influencer's on social media adopting muscle split workouts and isolating exercises because they're enhanced. Compound exercises all the way! A must for any natural gym goer with realistic expectations and goals.
It doesn't seem like anyone here is saying to do isolation exercise in lieu of compound, but rather, for most people, adding in additonal isolation work will get your further growth. If you only do compounds, the biceps and triceps are secondary movers. If you were trying to get adequate arm volume via compounds only, you'd likely be overdoing it on back and chest work.
100 pounds on a triceps extensions the right way is 100 pounds ( could be even more ..physically wise ) force on the tricepsmuscle.. 220 on a close grip "triceps" benchpress is at most 60 pounds direct force on your triceps muscle.. So which one is the most productive and safe excercise ?
What about if you want to work the heads of a muscle that get neglected by the compounds, however? Bench press and OHP are great for the lateral and medial triceps. But they activate the long head of the tricep less than the other two. Sure, I might skip the tricep pushdowns and kickbacks so long as I have the compounds, because those also work the lateral and medial heads, but wouldn't you still want some skullcrushers or overhead tricep extensions to work that long head? I'm a bit more comfortable with skipping bicep curls so long as you've got chin-ups, seeing as chin-ups activate the biceps almost as well as curls do.
Lying tricep pullover extensions are a good compound movement for the long head. It's used as a powerlifting strength assistance exercise, but basically what you do is you lower your elbows while also lowering shoulders back behind the head like a pullover and then use a bounce or strength reflex to explode back up overhead. It works the Long head of the triceps since your doing shoulder extension. Mark Rippetoe has a really good video on it. He also shows how to do the exercise on a cable machine, though because he's only interested in strength building and not hypertrophy, he thinks the cable version is useless since it can't be loaded in 1lb increments without magnetic weights. But I imagine the cable version would work for bodybuilding rep ranges.
But wouldn't all 3 heads of the triceps be used in the heavier compound movements like a close grip bench press since there's a larger load you can't work 1 biceps head since both are right by each other so wouldn't it be the same with triceps? 😎👍
Compounds are great for my chest and back and front delts. I noticed my arms were lagging behind, maybe I’m more torso dominant, but bicep triceps and side delt isolation work has been amazing for my arms,
If you are doing a full upper body workout focusing on compounds (pull-ups, military press, chest supported incline row and incline dB chest press. How many arm isolation exercises would be ideal after that? Just 1 for biceps triceps each or possibly 2?
Dude honestly, I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure if you did weighted chin-ups or chin-up grip pull downs instead of pull-ups you might be able to skip bicep isolations, then you only have to do overhead tricep extensions for the long head of your tris since your pressing works out the rest of your tris. If your frequency is at least twice a week and you’re progressively overloading, you should start seeing results in 3-4 weeks, assuming you’re still progressively over loading by month 3 and you haven’t plateaued, you should have a solid base. I would throw in side raises in place of curls, just to really target my side delts. Guys will tell ya you don’t need them bc of ohp’s but in my experience, they help more for your physique than ohp’s. Ohp’s are definitely still important, especially standing ohp bc it not only adds strength and functionality but more importantly it taxes your entire body to steady your form during the press so it sends a bigger signal to your brain to release more muscle juice during your sleep. Side raises really only make your shoulders look good and promote a healthy shoulder girdle.
You guys exclude alot of the biomechanics the exercises that, while compounds do great for the body overall, leave alot to be desired with the bicep and tricep activation. One medium to high rep isolation exercise per muscle after already demolishing them with compounds is a good way to get the focused volume that really builds, since bis and tris recover really quickly due to being more frequency used in basic activities. Think of how often you use your arms in comparison to the rest of your push/pull chain. The big movers (most of your back, chest and to a certain extent the delts) don't necessarily do alot of heavy work regularly which is why they get so large off of lower volume but still high loads, it's just the way our bodies were designed by evolution.
Good point. I’ve found that doing arms almost everyday doesn’t stop it from growing, considering the minimal rest given. It does recover rather relatively quickly
Ehhh idk if I agree with the comparison of biceps to hamstrings. The overwhelming majority of bodybuilders will tell you that lying or seated hamstring curls were the best exercise for adding size to their hamstrings…not the compound lower body movements.
If using maximum weight in a compound lift is better than an isolation exercise with a manageable weight wouldn’t powerlifters with the arched backs maximizing the weight used have the most developed chests? I can see how you might call that a strawman but it seems to be the logical extension of your argument
They really do it’s just not as defined as a bodybuilders because of their BF percentage… Look at cbum next to a power lifter he looks tiny (just more defined) less body fat on him.
Its real science but its not absolute. There's a lot more to the human body that just the mechanics. For example, muscle destiny and fibers also play an important role. I'm sure you know very small guys that are very strong.
Yeah noobs just do pull ups. Just kiddin lol. Barbell bicep curls work just fine. Flexes at the elbow. If u can't do the pull ups now keep working at it u will eventually
They’re trainers not fitness models looking for likes. Every great acting coach, wasn’t a great actor. Every great athlete wasn’t a great coach or team owner. Ask Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan.
Don’t you just love how there always someone with very little bicep or triceps Telling us how we can get big biceps and triceps when you have none yourself. It’s called hard work and going to failure and it’s also genetics. Btw talk is cheap show us!!!!!
@@Sean-xr1xj The idea that an exercise that incorporates multiple muscles will work a muscle better than an exercise focused on just that muscle is just illogical.
I always get a kick out of 90% of the personal trainers barely looking above average. They got gains after 6 months. Then they stopped and decided to teach. It'/s like a fat guy teaching body builders how to bulk. He learned to eat and got big so he knows it all. lol
@@AVB15 they’re wrong in the sense that compound movements are better for biceps and triceps than isolation movements. That is just complete BS. You can do as many sets of bench press and dips, and you will not have biceps as big as someone who does skull crushers or tricep rope extensions to focus on triceps. There’s a reason why bodybuilders who use isolation movements have bigger arms than calisthenics + powerlifting athletes who do only compound movements.
One thing trainers always seem to forget is that most people (even strong ones) can do zero to a very pull-ups. It takes forever for most to get to a point where they can bang out enough reps to make a set, let alone multiple sets.
If you can’t do them yet just do assisted pull-ups.
@@seanfolan2230 that's what I did, lots of assisted pull-ups and lat pull downs.
@@seanfolan2230 Just do lat pull down
I’ve been bulking recently and started out only being able to do 2 pull ups but i make it a set. After 2 weeks of doing im now at 4 pull ups. So it’s possible
I literally neglected isolation arm exercises for most of my first year of lifting and my arms have no definition you need to isolate the muscle. Since I have incorporated isolation exercises my arms are growing!
Genetics play a big part in that. Some people are limb dominant and some are torso dominant. Just isolate your stubborn muscles after the compounds
@Saud forget bout it yeah but they make it seem like compound movements can build smaller body parts like biceps and triceps which aren’t really the case. A guy who does bench press and dips will not have biceps as big and strong as someone who uses isolation exercises to target that muscle specifically. There’s a reason why typically powerlifters and calisthenics athletes have smaller arms than bodybuilders who use isolation exercises. Compound movements are great, but they’re not the best for smaller muscle groups.
Ive been lifting for 20+ years by now and I can only agree what has been concluded in the podcast. This is my personal experience for maximum arm growth.
1- Monday for instance :Chest, shoulders and triceps (only close grip bench and weighted dips for triceps.
2. Wednesday :Back, Neck/Traps and Biceps (again only weighted close grip chinups for Biceps)
3. Add an additional day only for arm isolation with lower weight higher reps.
In my opinion the best and quickest results for arms
@@Khaled-F you’re not grasping what they are saying. They aren’t saying normal benching and pull-ups will get your arms bigger than if you incorporate isolation work...they are saying tweak those compound lifts so that most of the recruitment is shifted to the arms. And they didn’t say to ignore isolation work either, but rather use it as a compliment..like your triceps priority list should be close grip bench/weighted dips, then some various isolation exercises that vary elbow angle and emphasize the different heads. Same as how you would never prioritize lateral raises to pressing on your shoulder days.
@@mattymat1616 I never said that they are entirely against doing isolation work. Of course, they also have isolation stuff in their training. Otherwise if you don’t incorporate any isolation work, then you aren’t bodybuilding anymore at that point. Also, yes, they do say one is better than the other. Sal does say at the start that non of the isolation movements build as much muscle for biceps/triceps as compound movements do, and I don’t agree with this.
Sure, a close grip bench press would allow you to put more weight but that extra load/weight is divided across your chest, front delts, and triceps. So, technically you aren’t really putting any extra load on the tricep itself.
Also, way easier to feel your triceps in skull crushers than close grip bench press, and there’s way more activation. This is just from personal experience and everyone I talk to at the gym as well.
Lastly, I never told anyone to not do compound movements. In the end, you will always do compound movements for your chest/back with exercises such as pull ups or flat bench press regardless of what you prefer on arm day. So compound movements are never really neglected, isolation movements are. For arms: isolation > compound
I didn’t isolate for my first 10 years lifting as to avoid looking like a bro lifter. My arms were fine and I developed the rest of my body proportionally, no complaints. But, for some reason I started to throw in a dedicated arm day about two months back for the first time and my arms have exploded. Never received more compliments on any other part of my body.
Did you have a dedicated arm day once a week.?
Grats, now you look like a bro lifter.
Wdym a bro lifter
If you only do compound exercises for arms you will look athletic. If you add direct, single joint exercises for arms you will look impressive! You choose.
“this is the way”
Really great way of putting it
@@arutimbreza3086 yep 👍🏻 that’s why I said “you choose”
Lol imagine him talking to you individually and and he keeps looking up.
🤣🤣🤣
I’m weak lol
Lol I just thought he had notes or something on a screen he just refers to?
What’s up there!
Pull-ups and dips baby
@@Tazy50 what you doin!
Do dips hurt your shoulders at all ?
i can only do like 3 dips, but i can hit 15+ pullups 😔
@@Big-mike07126 I’ve been suffering from a shoulder impingement for over 3 weeks now, because i did some dips and somehow messed up the form.
@@Tazy50 literally one of the best methods in growing your biceps lol not everyone wants to look like arnie, calisthenics is great for the aesthetic shredded look
Best bicep exercise for me has been close grip pull downs squeezing at the bottom of the movement and drag curls.for triceps overhead presses and dips.
overhead press for triceps?
Lots of criticism on here from people who are bought into the unnatural influencer's on social media adopting muscle split workouts and isolating exercises because they're enhanced. Compound exercises all the way! A must for any natural gym goer with realistic expectations and goals.
It doesn't seem like anyone here is saying to do isolation exercise in lieu of compound, but rather, for most people, adding in additonal isolation work will get your further growth.
If you only do compounds, the biceps and triceps are secondary movers. If you were trying to get adequate arm volume via compounds only, you'd likely be overdoing it on back and chest work.
100 pounds on a triceps extensions the right way is 100 pounds ( could be even more ..physically wise ) force on the tricepsmuscle.. 220 on a close grip "triceps" benchpress is at most 60 pounds direct force on your triceps muscle.. So which one is the most productive and safe excercise ?
So you don't bench?
Exactly!
Finally someone smart on the comment section and smarter than 3 personal trainers and powerlifters talking about training. Well done.
Do you follow doug brignole?
@@rampagesmackssons508 there are Olympia level bodybuilders that don't bench press. It's not necessary. At all.
Them chairs look comfortable 😆
Fr. Gaming chair 💯
What about if you want to work the heads of a muscle that get neglected by the compounds, however?
Bench press and OHP are great for the lateral and medial triceps. But they activate the long head of the tricep less than the other two. Sure, I might skip the tricep pushdowns and kickbacks so long as I have the compounds, because those also work the lateral and medial heads, but wouldn't you still want some skullcrushers or overhead tricep extensions to work that long head?
I'm a bit more comfortable with skipping bicep curls so long as you've got chin-ups, seeing as chin-ups activate the biceps almost as well as curls do.
Lying tricep pullover extensions are a good compound movement for the long head. It's used as a powerlifting strength assistance exercise, but basically what you do is you lower your elbows while also lowering shoulders back behind the head like a pullover and then use a bounce or strength reflex to explode back up overhead. It works the Long head of the triceps since your doing shoulder extension. Mark Rippetoe has a really good video on it. He also shows how to do the exercise on a cable machine, though because he's only interested in strength building and not hypertrophy, he thinks the cable version is useless since it can't be loaded in 1lb increments without magnetic weights. But I imagine the cable version would work for bodybuilding rep ranges.
But wouldn't all 3 heads of the triceps be used in the heavier compound movements like a close grip bench press since there's a larger load you can't work 1 biceps head since both are right by each other so wouldn't it be the same with triceps? 😎👍
Compounds are great for my chest and back and front delts. I noticed my arms were lagging behind, maybe I’m more torso dominant, but bicep triceps and side delt isolation work has been amazing for my arms,
What about doing a supinated dumbbell row?
preacher curls and tricep pushdowns on high inline bench. best by far
Incorrect. You need to position your arms overheat to get the best out of a triceps exercise.
If you are doing a full upper body workout focusing on compounds (pull-ups, military press, chest supported incline row and incline dB chest press. How many arm isolation exercises would be ideal after that? Just 1 for biceps triceps each or possibly 2?
Dude honestly, I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure if you did weighted chin-ups or chin-up grip pull downs instead of pull-ups you might be able to skip bicep isolations, then you only have to do overhead tricep extensions for the long head of your tris since your pressing works out the rest of your tris. If your frequency is at least twice a week and you’re progressively overloading, you should start seeing results in 3-4 weeks, assuming you’re still progressively over loading by month 3 and you haven’t plateaued, you should have a solid base. I would throw in side raises in place of curls, just to really target my side delts. Guys will tell ya you don’t need them bc of ohp’s but in my experience, they help more for your physique than ohp’s. Ohp’s are definitely still important, especially standing ohp bc it not only adds strength and functionality but more importantly it taxes your entire body to steady your form during the press so it sends a bigger signal to your brain to release more muscle juice during your sleep. Side raises really only make your shoulders look good and promote a healthy shoulder girdle.
Oh yeah, standing ohp > seated ohp.
You guys exclude alot of the biomechanics the exercises that, while compounds do great for the body overall, leave alot to be desired with the bicep and tricep activation. One medium to high rep isolation exercise per muscle after already demolishing them with compounds is a good way to get the focused volume that really builds, since bis and tris recover really quickly due to being more frequency used in basic activities. Think of how often you use your arms in comparison to the rest of your push/pull chain. The big movers (most of your back, chest and to a certain extent the delts) don't necessarily do alot of heavy work regularly which is why they get so large off of lower volume but still high loads, it's just the way our bodies were designed by evolution.
You're constantly using your back tho. Just standing up is using your back. Picking anything up is using your back.
Good point. I’ve found that doing arms almost everyday doesn’t stop it from growing, considering the minimal rest given. It does recover rather relatively quickly
@@thebenevolentsun6575 No its not.
Do you think they don’t already know this?
Off topic but I love these guys
Curious is this the same for women?
Build strength from the compounds, burn them out with isolation.
As far as I'm concerned, the compound is just the precursor/preburn to the isolation.
Love the content guys!!
Best podcast ever
Good advice.
Ehhh idk if I agree with the comparison of biceps to hamstrings. The overwhelming majority of bodybuilders will tell you that lying or seated hamstring curls were the best exercise for adding size to their hamstrings…not the compound lower body movements.
the dude with the hat: does he even lift?
Yeah
They both do and they’d both easily out lift you
watch mind pump tv they're all really big just doesnt look like it when they're sitting down
@@james2065 just don't look at Adam's calves
Maps still available?
Yep.
products.mindpumpmedia.com/a/501/RpoCHFse
Stop playing with the fucking thread on the couch 😂
thanks for the advice
Like the channel, but must he always look at the ceiling lol
Who gives a shit...
most people look to the right when recollecting things
@@kylechung1746 what does it mean if im a left looker
@@ErichLs generally it means your lying or making something up, some people will do it unconsciously but it depends on the situation
Who tell you that there is a ceiling?
Wow ! Coming from a group of guys that look like they’ve trained arms before 😂
I've started to watch theses RUclips clips not too long ago. As I've started a process to gain mass. I will have to search who are they.
If using maximum weight in a compound lift is better than an isolation exercise with a manageable weight wouldn’t powerlifters with the arched backs maximizing the weight used have the most developed chests? I can see how you might call that a strawman but it seems to be the logical extension of your argument
They really do it’s just not as defined as a bodybuilders because of their BF percentage… Look at cbum next to a power lifter he looks tiny (just more defined) less body fat on him.
@@arcreturns4604 So pretty much every bodybuilder has been wrong and they should be training as powerlifters?
🙄
Im not taking pointers on arms, from a guy with smaller arms than myself
Don’t do iso but do iso... cool
These guys are painful to watch in an entertaining way.
Why?
I don't get it 🙂
@@pala_sh_arma Not sure might be because theyre pretty awkward.
Is there ever gonna be real science on this? You'd think there would be by now
Its real science but its not absolute. There's a lot more to the human body that just the mechanics. For example, muscle destiny and fibers also play an important role. I'm sure you know very small guys that are very strong.
too generic... my arms dont respond much to compounds. isolation exercises help and i actually feel them.....ugh.
Yeah noobs just do pull ups. Just kiddin lol. Barbell bicep curls work just fine. Flexes at the elbow. If u can't do the pull ups now keep working at it u will eventually
Judging by the arms on show here I think I'll take a pass on the advice.
😂
I feel that way about all the advice when I look at them too but these are very credible sources of information... they have so much experience
🤣🤣🤣
They’re trainers not fitness models looking for likes. Every great acting coach, wasn’t a great actor. Every great athlete wasn’t a great coach or team owner. Ask Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan.
Most arms don’t look big when not flexed.
These guys are on TRT
Don’t you just love how there always someone with very little bicep or triceps
Telling us how we can get big biceps and triceps when you have none yourself. It’s called hard work and going to failure and it’s also genetics. Btw talk is cheap show us!!!!!
Man these guys couldn’t be more wrong..
Why? Honestly, I’d like to know what you would recommend. Trying to learn as much as possible, as a beginner
@@k.j.b.h5245 look up Doug Brignole, i wish i had when i first started...
@@ComeOnPeopleThink haha that guy is a muppet. thinks farmers walks are shit lol. just check the like to dislike ratios on his videos.
Literally nothing they said is wrong lmao
@@Sean-xr1xj The idea that an exercise that incorporates multiple muscles will work a muscle better than an exercise focused on just that muscle is just illogical.
Great exercises to build muscle* not the best bro that depends on SFR you walnuts
Who tf is this guy talking?!
lolol
Dorin is gay
@@delasoul23 it was your your daddy ?!
Who tf are these guys anyway? I mean honestly? I dont mean to be rude.
Ex personal trainers and ex pro bodybuilders
Lol what a bizarre attitude
Gunna tell us how to build arms Yet these guys have zero biceps and triceps lol. Yea okay.
their advice is perfect. you should listen
I always get a kick out of 90% of the personal trainers barely looking above average. They got gains after 6 months. Then they stopped and decided to teach. It'/s like a fat guy teaching body builders how to bulk. He learned to eat and got big so he knows it all. lol
Pretty awful advice all around
Typical wannabe bodybuilder you are 😂😂😂
How are they wrong?
@@brigenmuchaj9919 Dude probably does 10 arm exercises lol
How lol, this is great advice
@@AVB15 they’re wrong in the sense that compound movements are better for biceps and triceps than isolation movements. That is just complete BS. You can do as many sets of bench press and dips, and you will not have biceps as big as someone who does skull crushers or tricep rope extensions to focus on triceps. There’s a reason why bodybuilders who use isolation movements have bigger arms than calisthenics + powerlifting athletes who do only compound movements.