I'm like you Vince, I absolutely love fixing and diagnosing electronics. It's a good buzz when you get something to work. Remember next time when there is no audio, always go for the audio output stage (amplifier circuitry)it's usually in two sections, preamplifier and the main output amplifier, but in your case, it's an all in one package (integrated circuit)and that makes them run hotter so they're more prone to failure, you could put a little heatsink on them and that would make them last longer. Glad to hear you've got an oscilloscope now you can learn all about signal tracing, and that's great fun.
Thanks Dave, I ordered up a pack of 30 heat sinks for a few £ and some thermal adhesive. I will stick one on in the revisit video. Thanks for the idea :-)
The 8002B appears to be a clone of the National Semiconductor (now TI) LM4871. If you look at the original data sheet you'll see that the SOIC packaged varsion was only rated for driving 1.5W into 8 ohm loads. There is a special version in a WSON package which can do 2.5W into 4 ohms. I expect the 8002Bs are just being killed by overloading and replacing them might get things working again but only temporarily. Replacing the speaker with an 8 ohm one might help.
To add to this, TI states that for a 3W 4Ohm load, you should be using an LM4871LD, which they don't seem to make in an SOIC-8 package like the 8002b. They do make it in a 4x4 8-WSON package, with the same pinout, but I don't think that will fit where you need it. Datasheet: www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm4871.pdf
my OCD tells me I need a follow up video. I think as you do that the reason why the serial numbers are gone is they've went through a recycle center where they promised to destroy the items and responsibly dispose of the parts - that could have been done but the 3rd buyer offered them up for sale on auction. Should be on the up and up provided that the last to buy them doesn't place them in the landfill. Great video (as always)!
Nothing wrong with being careful Vince.when I used to do videos I used to be the same.but I had very few subscribers and you have a lot more at stake.the videos are still great whatever music you get to play 👍
Great job! The speaker wattage is only what the speaker is rated to handle. Its wattage would not affect the chip. The impedance (4 Ohm) is way more important to the chip than its wattage. The lower the impedance of the speaker, the harder the chip has to work and the more heat it would generate, eventually leading to its demise. In your case, the speaker is properly matched to the chip, so that leaves the suspected failure was heat caused by either bad chip quality or more likely the design of the circuit surrounding the chip. Sometimes a circuit design can exceed or be right at the maximum threshold of the voltage or current parameters for some of the chip's pins, damaging it over time. If you don"t want to pore over the circuit and datasheet to see what is over spec, the easiest thing to do is just attach a small heatsink on the chip. There are small heatsinks with adhesive pads available for RAM and such. I like to add heatsinks to the chips that get hot in my equipment; it's cheap insurance IMO. Nice soldering job on those chips. A little tip for you: If you add flux to the pads before reinstalling a chip you don't have to align it perfectly, as the molten solder's surface tension will pull the pins onto the pads. This is especially useful on tinier components like resistors, as the smaller they are, the easier they self-align. Oh, and the tacky flux is called that because it just stays where you put it until heated. Once heated, it behaves exactly like liquid flux; parts behave the same no matter which you use. Liquid flux does flash off faster with heat, though. Sorry for the long comment. Great video, as usual, sir!
Brilliant info and advice/tips. Thank you:-) I ordered up some heat sinks and thermal adhesive ( and a roll of thermal tape) earlier today so I will include that in the revisit video when the chips arrive :-)
@@Mymatevince Definitely the way to go. From the 8002D datasheet, it seems power dissipation with a 4 ohm load is north of 1.25 W, which is asking a bit much from a bare SO-8 package. Do make sure that speaker DC resistance reads no lower than about 3.2 ohms, as a fried voice coil would probably take the amplifier with it in the long run.
I notice quite a few people suggesting a higher impedance speaker. Yes this will load the amplifier less but it will also be quieter. If you wanted to experiment with increasing impedance why not stick a low value approx 2 - 4 ohm 1 watt resistor in series with the existing speaker? Personally I think just turn the volume down and don't run the thing at MAX.
Love your videos, story tells that the tiny chip usually blow up when people send the sound in distorsion (loud volume and crackling from the speaker), may be useful add a little heatsink on the top of them
Amtech is the real brand, and is what most professionals use. Haven't heard of Vaseline as flux, but you should be able to smell the difference between the two. Interesting fault find as always!
I ENJOY TOO! AND WE NOT NEED SHORT VÍDEOS WE NEED INFORMATION! AND YOU NOT HIDE ANY, THIS IS SO NICE ON YOUR VIDEOS, YOU SHOWS ALL no shame in failures, as all failures is a valuable lessons, you change from a nintendo swhitch killer to a nintendo swhich fixer! ( you have learned from your own mistakes
Hey Vince, I would love to see a revisit video. The parts I've ordered from China in the past were a mixed bag of relabelled transistors that were somewhat compatible. All the best in the New Year!
The rating of the speaker 3 Watts and 4 Ohms. The speaker would not overload the amp as it is presenting itself to the amplifier as a 4 Ohms Load, it can just take more power without burning out its own speaker coil. Maybe what happened is someone used the headphone jack with shorted out headphones which destroyed the amp. You would think some better protection circuit would be used but I guess they are built to a price.
It's the impedance of the speaker that determines the load on the amplifier, not its capacity. I.e. 4-ohm speaker determines the load, a 4-watt speaker determines the amount of power it'll take before it either flies apart, or the voice coil gets dangerously hot (it's usually the voice coil thing). The two specs are linked as far as an amplifier is concerned, but that relationship is beyond the scope of this paragraph. The chip is probably overheating.
Nice job! Yeah, you're not being paranoid about RUclips.... You can't be paranoid enough, where they are concerned.... And as one of my Attorneys told me many years ago, "A little paranoia is NOT a bad thing...."
***ADDENDUM*** An 8 ohm speaker should ensure the Audio chip wont fry, mind you you will lose some volume or loudness.. you could also insert a 1 or 2 ohm resistor in series feeding the audio to the speaket through it if you dont have an 8 ohm speaker..
I use Mechanic UV-80 flus. It is pretty good but mine came in like a shoe polish tin, not a syringe. Apply with a cocktail stick. Alternatively make your own high concentration rosin/IPA solution like Sorin from Electronics Repair School. Apparently adding a small percentage of glycerine makes it more gelatinous, but I haven't tried that.
The audio connector is also a switch. Besides having the pins for the Jack there is also a switch that commutes from speaker (amplified) to headphones (not amplified) that is why you have so many pins. If the switch inside is in neutral position, both headphone or speaker will work. That is one possible fault.
Hi Vince . First time commecting on any You Tube Video. Your enthusiasm reminds me of myself , starting off in the electronics repair trade many years ago. Regarding flux , yes stay away from EBAY , as it's a bit of a lottery . I normally buy from Amtech direct in the states . Only way to be sure it's not a fake product . Cannot find any reputable agents in the UK .
regarding the amp chip: if you keep the volume low you will have the same effect as reducing the load. I guess the amp chips have gone because someone had them running them at high volume for long time. As for the speaker load: lower impedance equals higher power demand at same volume level. Datasheet says: 3 watt @ 3 ohm. The used speaker is 3 watt @ 4 ohm, which means it is quieter at same output level. so the user could tend to overdrive the chip. remember: the chip rating is an indicator. I do not think the 3 watt continous power refer to full volume.
What a fantastic fix Vince. And thank you for recycling which helps save the environment. I restore vintage multitrack recorders to keep the analogue vibe alive. Kind regards. Paul.
Watts on a speaker are passive. It means that you can put up to 3W into the speakers and they're supposed to be able to handle that. Happy new year! ^o^/
louis rossmann sells that flux but he is in new york usa i think its about $20 usa if you dont want to buy in the usa andrew paul dose sell parts and flux as well he could have it i know he uses it ......... great video old mate vince cheers james D
I just checked and Louis lists it for $15.49. Anyone that's watched his RUclips channel knows he's trustworthy. RUclips ruclips.net/channel/UCl2mFZoRqjw_ELax4Yisf6w Store store.rossmanngroup.com/soldering-diy/helpful-tools-extras/flux-soldering-tools.html Worth checking, can't be that much to post a tube of flux from the US.
You can't find the GND on speaker/headphones because it is bridge mode output power amp (BTL) for each channel and it was shown on the datasheet => BTL@4 Ohms - 2.65W for speaker. The speaker is perfect for this amp, just cheap Chinese stuff failed for no reason. Never hasitate to do a revisit untill its fixed, many people (mostly newcomers) with limited knowledge look for a specific details about some process and for them this is a descent knowledge base. This is more like psychological state rather than knowledge thirst or maybe both, just like relieving good feelings from fixing something. It make you some kind ... honest and trustworthy to the audience. Winbound is famous with their memory chips, in this case it is flash EEPROM memory for BIOS and firmware of the DAB
Top Tip, to fix the Aerial , find a screw/bolt that fits , either using a hacksaw put a small groove across the top where the screw fits in , or drill a small hole, flux everything up and insert the screw and then solder it in making sure the solder runs through the hole or groove and sticks to the bolt on the inside .. it will never come out and make a really good repair
Fantastic job =D Always interesting to watch you find the cause of a failure! I suspect (as you thought) that the speaker is ultimately why this is probably a common failure point on these. It might be OK if the volume is low for the most part - but how many people crank the volume up to max for their fav song - it might not be able to sustain max volume for long periods of time. You could test how hot the IC gets when on full volume for a few mins in the next video maybe?
Good idea Chris. I will definitely revisit this. I can use that temp probe on the multi meter to show it possibly heating up. I also ordered some cheapo heat sinks and thermal adhesive for a few £. I will stick one on to see if it makes it last longer :-)
That green board with the chips is likely the DAB decoding board to process the DAB signals and send the audio to the amp. I wonder if it's possible to grab the DAB audio stream off one of these radios and put it to a file.
If the unit has been run at full volume and signal has been clipping (distorted) for any length of time, that is what will kill the chip. This could be more likely (believe it not) if the batteries are getting low as the amplifier will clip at a lower level.
That is of course correct, but a higher impedance speaker will be quieter as less current flows through it at a given amplifier output. You could put a low value 2 - 4 ohm resistor in series with the speaker that will have a similar effect. Or just not run the bloomin' thing at full volume.. :-)
Speaker impedance is the only thing that matters. A speaker that's rated for 3 watts, means that's how much power the speaker coil itself can safely take. A 3 Watt speaker draws no less or more power from an amplifier than a 2 Watt, nor one rated for 50 Watts. I'd say the 3 Ohm impedance is what's killing this little amplifier chip. A 6~8 Ohm speaker would make this work a lot better, and more reliably. It's funny how speaker power ratings work. I remember Altec Lansing speakers used to be rated at 50 Watts, but could handle well into the hundreds of Watts. In fact, I used to have a pair of Voice Of The Theater speakers hooked up to a 1,000 Watt amplifier, LOL!
@Joe T Awesome points! Many factors went in to these chips failing. It could also come down to just a bad batch of chips. The speaker impedance matches what the chip is rated for, so I'd lean towards the chips being defective. What would be interesting to see is long term testing with new chips, to see if a new replacement chip would permanently solve the problem.
The chip is a Kino 4 from Frontier Silicon - a british company. I have quite a bit of background with these. The Winbond chip holds the firmware. Frontier Silicon is /the/ vendor for DAB+ radio chipsets, some of them running Linux. They don't sell radios themselves. The firmware quality is argueably very poor, so are the translations. Most radios with DAB+ and internet radios are just using their hardware design and firmware and put their own label on. So you have a hard time finding a radio that is not using the Frontier Silicon chipset. The Sony radios, as well as the Grundig ones do AFAIK not use Frontier Silicon IP.
Love these videos, as another has said companies buy a licence to put the brand name on their product now. As for the pronunciation I understood it was blau as in plough.
A bridge-tied load (BTL), also known as bridged transformerless and bridged mono, is an output configuration for audio amplifiers , a form of impedance bridging used mainly in professional audio & car applications.
They went bust in 2016. Their stuff was made in Germany till 2009. Then after they were bought out in 2009 from Bosch, all their stuff was made in China!!
@@pauldavies6037 That's what happens when companies don't go with the time and get obsolete. Made in China isn't neccessarily a sign of bad quality though (I'd be more worried if it was Made in USA). Also Blaupunkt never was a high-end brand, or atleast hasn't been since the 1980s.
The people that say you're paranoid about getting copyright claimed obviously don't have a channel with monetized videos. You can replace the 8002B amp chip with the LM4871 and it shouldn't have that issue again. But the 8002A and 8002B chips are still normally pretty reliable. Sainsbury's Supermarkets might have gotten a bad batch of the chips.
Blaupunkt, yeah right haha. Have two Tesco DAB radios (no DAB, only FM worked), look very similar inside. Also these models are slightly different inside. I think they use what is available and cheap. Very hackable devices especially the screen and the buttons. Put a raspberry Pi in it because I was unable to fix it. The 'bluetooth thing' is the processor + DAB/FM integrated solution and to get a datasheet of the thing you need a license. That was the reason my repair halted.
Would like to see the revisit vid,I have just today replaced the whole circuit board for exactly the same problem as yours,and it was my fault as I used a universal charger and forgot to check the output voltage so it blew the board at 12v,should have been 6v,stupid me!! Love your videos btw.
Easily clean stickers with Naphtha - sold as Zippo Lighter Fluid, Ronsonol Lighter Fluid, or VM&P (varnish makers and paint) grade naphtha (quart size) from a paint store. Squirt and wipe off. Gloves recommended. Similar but stronger than IPA. I use it to clean sticky goo and labels off of cardboard boxes, and plastic cartridges.
ˆThis! Naphtha will safely and effectively clean almost anything without damaging or discoloring any material including plastics. I worked at a factory where they made contact lenses and it was what we used to clean machining residues off the unfinished lenses. Unlike other solvents, once it evaporates it leaves no residue, moisture or even smell. You have to work fast though, as it evaporates very quickly. All that said, only use it in a well ventilated area. I got sick once from exposure to the fumes (it was several hours, but still). Also, keep it well away from any open flames and sparks. It _is_ lighter fluid, after all. Flammable is putting it mildly.
Great video. If I were you, I would have checked for maybe a 5watts chip upgrade with the same pinouts ? Maybe the volume just overloads the chip if it's 3 watts maximum. Might be a little dearer, but the fault might be a long term fix ?
Your channel grew so much that you should consider doing sponsored videos/ making sponsor deals with different brands. It'd probably make you more money than the ad revenue. I could easily imagine something like a sponsored deal with iFixit or something like that.
well done as always man. I wanted to let you know ive started buy faulty items and im going to repair them myself just like you! thank you! any pointers?
49.29 so agree. I have to be so careful filming in public. Always some music in background. Live streamers are now mirror image video to blank out company names too. Then you see channels on RUclips making heaps cash from talking and showing other channels of TV shows. It's bad that genuine RUclipsrs get spanked. My audio gets me demonetised because it sounds like gunshots. Yep it's auto flagged.
Vince, I've had this IC going faulty on one of those cheap red FM little radios with usb and sdcard mp3 player and it went silent once. I started poking and shorting to the positive randomly some of its leads and noticed the pin 6 to + used to revive it. not sure why it worked but it did.
I’m not sure where you can get original amtech flux but I’m sure I heard sorin from electronics repair school once said that he had some original ran out and bought some cheap from eBay and he thought it was better to use!
Wow. These things really are cheaply made if they're using 8002s as amplifiers. That's the same chip amp used in little £2 amplified speakers. What junk! Impressive how quickly you homed in on the fault with these Vince. I just bought one of those CD boomboxes with "broken" CD player for a fiver delivered. Bloody CD works fine, and thanks to your videos I'm disappointed lol.
@@Mymatevince hey vince I have a ps3 fat 8gb with red light of death it was repaired before or so they said I would love to see if it was repaired I be more than happy to send it you I have another ps3 slim so it wouldn't matter if it ends up not fixable as you could use as spare parts
Hi , I was just reading the data sheet of that Power amplifier ic , It stats that @5V in to 4 ohm speaker it should be 2.65W which if fine, The speaker is rated for 3W which means it can handle maximum of 3W , always better to under drive the speaker max Watts. I am just wondering if they are using 5V to the IC or 6V If they used 6V to power the ic this will over dive the speaker and cause the chip to get hot and die prematurely. great video :)
Thanks Anonymous, I didn't measure any voltage going into this chip but once the replacement arrives I will do a revisit. I will feel (or test) the chip to see if it gets hot on full volume and stick a heatsink on it. If I remember I will try and measure the input voltage :-)
i think the reason for the chip faiing so often is that people use them at full volume a lot of the time and there is no heat sink.. also if the out put of an amp is say 3 watts the speaker should be rated higher to stop distortion. a great video and like you said a real fault finding and fix
Hi Vince, regarding your request about tack Flux, RS components are a supplier to the electronics industry in the UK, and they have Chipquick no clean tack flux available in large 30cc syringes, might be worth a look. I work in electronics manufacturing myself and our company uses this supplier for many items 👍
You're getting pretty good at this. Do people buy these things second hand, or are you doing it for the video? These Blaupunkt DAB radios are just Chinese low quality/ low spec things - nothing like Blaupunkt once made.
Yeah, its just a re-badge. The DAB module is pretty high quality but the audio amplifier speaker and power supply are typical of cheep rubbish from china.
You showed in one video that you were playing "Fur Elise" (Sorry, I don't have the right diacriticals) I was hoping you'd do that with each of the audio clips you play!
pin 4 of your 8002 is the input - try injecting a sound source directly into pin 4 see if it plays - if it doesnt its the audio chip if it does - its the digital bit! put a capacitor in series with whatever signal you inject just in case. another edit - i really should watch to the end before commenting - the chip is in push pull mode so not grounded - only way to have a short on speaker/headphone outpu is if the chip has popped his cloggs
Hi Vince, have watched a few of your videos and i like the content. I recently purchased a faulty Bush DAB BD1709 radio from eBay for about £7 with the sole objective of fixing it. It was listed as having no power. I have already figured out that one of the capacitors had blown inside and left a lot of the fluffy insulation inside. I have cleaned that mess up then to discover that a very very tiny smd chip (i think it had 5 pins but not sure, and its probably about 2mm square) im assuming was connected next to that capacitor, had blown also. But because the tiny chip is so small and burnt I am unable to read the code on it. At an educated guess what would you think the chip would be? I am unable to find any schematics for it and I think it was an Argos product. Thanks in advance for any small advice.
Is changing the speaker not the wrong way of looking at it? Changing to a more resistant chip would be better or do you need to change more components for that?
A common issue is when plugging in an out headphones, is that for a brief moment there is a short circuit, so doing that on max volume perhaps that chip will fail.
It is uncommon for "accessory" headphone jacks not to be fitted without any kind of series resistors. _(Yay, triple negation!)_ Even a modest 5.6 ohms would pretty much eliminate this issue.
I'm like you Vince, I absolutely love fixing and diagnosing electronics. It's a good buzz when you get something to work.
Remember next time when there is no audio, always go for the audio output stage (amplifier circuitry)it's usually in two sections, preamplifier and the main output amplifier, but in your case, it's an all in one package (integrated circuit)and that makes them run hotter so they're more prone to failure, you could put a little heatsink on them and that would make them last longer.
Glad to hear you've got an oscilloscope now you can learn all about signal tracing, and that's great fun.
Thanks Dave, I ordered up a pack of 30 heat sinks for a few £ and some thermal adhesive. I will stick one on in the revisit video. Thanks for the idea :-)
Carlson can sort this out!
The 8002B appears to be a clone of the National Semiconductor (now TI) LM4871.
If you look at the original data sheet you'll see that the SOIC packaged varsion was only rated for driving 1.5W into 8 ohm loads.
There is a special version in a WSON package which can do 2.5W into 4 ohms.
I expect the 8002Bs are just being killed by overloading and replacing them might get things working again but only temporarily.
Replacing the speaker with an 8 ohm one might help.
Thanks for the info and advice Scott :-)
No, here both channels are in bridge mode for internal speaker BTL = 2.65W@4 ohms and stereo for headphones, but not both in the same time
To add to this, TI states that for a 3W 4Ohm load, you should be using an LM4871LD, which they don't seem to make in an SOIC-8 package like the 8002b. They do make it in a 4x4 8-WSON package, with the same pinout, but I don't think that will fit where you need it. Datasheet: www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm4871.pdf
Would LOVE to see a revisit! Keep up the awesome work Vince!
my OCD tells me I need a follow up video. I think as you do that the reason why the serial numbers are gone is they've went through a recycle center where they promised to destroy the items and responsibly dispose of the parts - that could have been done but the 3rd buyer offered them up for sale on auction. Should be on the up and up provided that the last to buy them doesn't place them in the landfill. Great video (as always)!
excellent tutorial, you explain the processes very well
Nothing wrong with being careful Vince.when I used to do videos I used to be the same.but I had very few subscribers and you have a lot more at stake.the videos are still great whatever music you get to play 👍
Great job! The speaker wattage is only what the speaker is rated to handle. Its wattage would not affect the chip. The impedance (4 Ohm) is way more important to the chip than its wattage. The lower the impedance of the speaker, the harder the chip has to work and the more heat it would generate, eventually leading to its demise.
In your case, the speaker is properly matched to the chip, so that leaves the suspected failure was heat caused by either bad chip quality or more likely the design of the circuit surrounding the chip. Sometimes a circuit design can exceed or be right at the maximum threshold of the voltage or current parameters for some of the chip's pins, damaging it over time. If you don"t want to pore over the circuit and datasheet to see what is over spec, the easiest thing to do is just attach a small heatsink on the chip. There are small heatsinks with adhesive pads available for RAM and such. I like to add heatsinks to the chips that get hot in my equipment; it's cheap insurance IMO.
Nice soldering job on those chips. A little tip for you: If you add flux to the pads before reinstalling a chip you don't have to align it perfectly, as the molten solder's surface tension will pull the pins onto the pads. This is especially useful on tinier components like resistors, as the smaller they are, the easier they self-align.
Oh, and the tacky flux is called that because it just stays where you put it until heated. Once heated, it behaves exactly like liquid flux; parts behave the same no matter which you use. Liquid flux does flash off faster with heat, though.
Sorry for the long comment. Great video, as usual, sir!
Brilliant info and advice/tips. Thank you:-) I ordered up some heat sinks and thermal adhesive ( and a roll of thermal tape) earlier today so I will include that in the revisit video when the chips arrive :-)
@@Mymatevince Definitely the way to go. From the 8002D datasheet, it seems power dissipation with a 4 ohm load is north of 1.25 W, which is asking a bit much from a bare SO-8 package. Do make sure that speaker DC resistance reads no lower than about 3.2 ohms, as a fried voice coil would probably take the amplifier with it in the long run.
I notice quite a few people suggesting a higher impedance speaker. Yes this will load the amplifier less but it will also be quieter. If you wanted to experiment with increasing impedance why not stick a low value approx 2 - 4 ohm 1 watt resistor in series with the existing speaker? Personally I think just turn the volume down and don't run the thing at MAX.
Omg I THINK I almost bid on these and had the same idea and it was all down to your videos.
Bollocks.
Love your videos, story tells that the tiny chip usually blow up when people send the sound in distorsion (loud volume and crackling from the speaker), may be useful add a little heatsink on the top of them
Amtech is the real brand, and is what most professionals use. Haven't heard of Vaseline as flux, but you should be able to smell the difference between the two. Interesting fault find as always!
Nice relaxing way to spend a Thursday evening. Keep up the good work fella!
I ENJOY TOO! AND WE NOT NEED SHORT VÍDEOS WE NEED INFORMATION! AND YOU NOT HIDE ANY, THIS IS SO NICE ON YOUR VIDEOS, YOU SHOWS ALL no shame in failures, as all failures is a valuable lessons, you change from a nintendo swhitch killer to a nintendo swhich fixer! ( you have learned from your own mistakes
LOVE YOUR VIDEOS WITH THE FACE FORWARDING PARTS
Hey Vince, I would love to see a revisit video. The parts I've ordered from China in the past were a mixed bag of relabelled transistors that were somewhat compatible. All the best in the New Year!
The rating of the speaker 3 Watts and 4 Ohms. The speaker would not overload the amp as it is presenting itself to the amplifier as a 4 Ohms Load, it can just take more power without burning out its own speaker coil. Maybe what happened is someone used the headphone jack with shorted out headphones which destroyed the amp. You would think some better protection circuit would be used but I guess they are built to a price.
Thanks , I learned really a lot from your video and sort out my radio , now I know how to fix it . Subscribed 😊
36:25 - there's that enthusiasm! Love it, keep them coming!
It's the impedance of the speaker that determines the load on the amplifier, not its capacity.
I.e. 4-ohm speaker determines the load, a 4-watt speaker determines the amount of power it'll take before it either flies apart, or the voice coil gets dangerously hot (it's usually the voice coil thing). The two specs are linked as far as an amplifier is concerned, but that relationship is beyond the scope of this paragraph. The chip is probably overheating.
Nice job!
Yeah, you're not being paranoid about RUclips.... You can't be paranoid enough, where they are concerned....
And as one of my Attorneys told me many years ago, "A little paranoia is NOT a bad thing...."
***ADDENDUM***
An 8 ohm speaker should ensure the Audio chip wont fry, mind you you will lose some volume or loudness.. you could also insert a 1 or 2 ohm resistor in series feeding the audio to the speaket through it if you dont have an 8 ohm speaker..
Or change the speaker to the right one + put copper heatsinks and thermal paste on the chips.
I use Mechanic UV-80 flus. It is pretty good but mine came in like a shoe polish tin, not a syringe. Apply with a cocktail stick. Alternatively make your own high concentration rosin/IPA solution like Sorin from Electronics Repair School. Apparently adding a small percentage of glycerine makes it more gelatinous, but I haven't tried that.
The 3W label on the speaker indicates the maximum power supported by it.
The little Winbond Chip is in a cercuit like this most times a EEPROM for Firmware and the big Chip is kind of a micro which loads this firmware.
Love your enthusiasm vince
The audio connector is also a switch. Besides having the pins for the Jack there is also a switch that commutes from speaker (amplified) to headphones (not amplified) that is why you have so many pins. If the switch inside is in neutral position, both headphone or speaker will work. That is one possible fault.
Hi Vince . First time commecting on any You Tube Video.
Your enthusiasm reminds me of myself , starting off in the electronics repair trade many years ago.
Regarding flux , yes stay away from EBAY , as it's a bit of a lottery . I normally buy from Amtech direct in the states . Only way to be sure it's not a fake product . Cannot find any reputable agents in the UK .
You are a useful human and a credit to mankind in general. Cheers!
I would like to see the revisit as well. Always nice to see something fully fixed up :)
Happy new year and almost 500k subs well done.
regarding the amp chip: if you keep the volume low you will have the same effect as reducing the load. I guess the amp chips have gone because someone had them running them at high volume for long time. As for the speaker load: lower impedance equals higher power demand at same volume level. Datasheet says: 3 watt @ 3 ohm. The used speaker is 3 watt @ 4 ohm, which means it is quieter at same output level. so the user could tend to overdrive the chip. remember: the chip rating is an indicator. I do not think the 3 watt continous power refer to full volume.
What a fantastic fix Vince. And thank you for recycling which helps save the environment. I restore vintage multitrack recorders to keep the analogue vibe alive. Kind regards. Paul.
Happy new year Vince, Hope 2020 is a great year for you all and may all your shorts be quick to find.
Watts on a speaker are passive. It means that you can put up to 3W into the speakers and they're supposed to be able to handle that. Happy new year! ^o^/
I think vince should do an repair video with his son. like so vince can see
louis rossmann sells that flux but he is in new york usa i think its about $20 usa if you dont want to buy in the usa andrew paul dose sell parts and flux as well he could have it i know he uses it ......... great video old mate vince
cheers
james D
I just checked and Louis lists it for $15.49.
Anyone that's watched his RUclips channel knows he's trustworthy.
RUclips ruclips.net/channel/UCl2mFZoRqjw_ELax4Yisf6w
Store store.rossmanngroup.com/soldering-diy/helpful-tools-extras/flux-soldering-tools.html
Worth checking, can't be that much to post a tube of flux from the US.
I suspect you know more than you let on, don't get me wrong I love your videos, especially your diagnostic reasoning. What ever keep it up, I like.
Mine is from Sainsbury's too. The one that isn't turning on now, it's a lovely looking thing.
Great job vince love your videos keep up the great work your doing
You can't find the GND on speaker/headphones because it is bridge mode output power amp (BTL) for each channel and it was shown on the datasheet => BTL@4 Ohms - 2.65W for speaker. The speaker is perfect for this amp, just cheap Chinese stuff failed for no reason. Never hasitate to do a revisit untill its fixed, many people (mostly newcomers) with limited knowledge look for a specific details about some process and for them this is a descent knowledge base. This is more like psychological state rather than knowledge thirst or maybe both, just like relieving good feelings from fixing something. It make you some kind ... honest and trustworthy to the audience. Winbound is famous with their memory chips, in this case it is flash EEPROM memory for BIOS and firmware of the DAB
Top Tip, to fix the Aerial , find a screw/bolt that fits , either using a hacksaw put a small groove across the top where the screw fits in , or drill a small hole, flux everything up
and insert the screw and then solder it in making sure the solder runs through the hole or groove and sticks to the bolt on the inside .. it will never come out and make a really good repair
Fantastic job =D Always interesting to watch you find the cause of a failure! I suspect (as you thought) that the speaker is ultimately why this is probably a common failure point on these. It might be OK if the volume is low for the most part - but how many people crank the volume up to max for their fav song - it might not be able to sustain max volume for long periods of time. You could test how hot the IC gets when on full volume for a few mins in the next video maybe?
Good idea Chris. I will definitely revisit this. I can use that temp probe on the multi meter to show it possibly heating up. I also ordered some cheapo heat sinks and thermal adhesive for a few £. I will stick one on to see if it makes it last longer :-)
That green board with the chips is likely the DAB decoding board to process the DAB signals and send the audio to the amp. I wonder if it's possible to grab the DAB audio stream off one of these radios and put it to a file.
Louis Rossmann sales the flux. Real deal. Great RUclips guy. Just like you.
Btw he is just like you a self made/ learned repairs man.
If the speaker was 6 or 8 ohms it would stress the amplifier less. The wattage doesn't matter as much as the impedance.
If the unit has been run at full volume and signal has been clipping (distorted) for any length of time, that is what will kill the chip. This could be more likely (believe it not) if the batteries are getting low as the amplifier will clip at a lower level.
A higher impedance speaker will put less strain on the Amplifier Output Chip, As using a far too low impedance speaker can short it out.
That is of course correct, but a higher impedance speaker will be quieter as less current flows through it at a given amplifier output. You could put a low value 2 - 4 ohm resistor in series with the speaker that will have a similar effect. Or just not run the bloomin' thing at full volume.. :-)
Really enjoyed this one.. Another great fix. Thanks for the video...
Take a look on Amazon. There are listings for that particular flux. Love the videos.
Speaker impedance is the only thing that matters. A speaker that's rated for 3 watts, means that's how much power the speaker coil itself can safely take.
A 3 Watt speaker draws no less or more power from an amplifier than a 2 Watt, nor one rated for 50 Watts.
I'd say the 3 Ohm impedance is what's killing this little amplifier chip. A 6~8 Ohm speaker would make this work a lot better, and more reliably.
It's funny how speaker power ratings work. I remember Altec Lansing speakers used to be rated at 50 Watts, but could handle well into the hundreds of Watts. In fact, I used to have a pair of Voice Of The Theater speakers hooked up to a 1,000 Watt amplifier, LOL!
Thanks for the explanation Kentucky :-)
@Joe T Awesome points!
Many factors went in to these chips failing. It could also come down to just a bad batch of chips. The speaker impedance matches what the chip is rated for, so I'd lean towards the chips being defective. What would be interesting to see is long term testing with new chips, to see if a new replacement chip would permanently solve the problem.
The chip is a Kino 4 from Frontier Silicon - a british company. I have quite a bit of background with these. The Winbond chip holds the firmware. Frontier Silicon is /the/ vendor for DAB+ radio chipsets, some of them running Linux. They don't sell radios themselves. The firmware quality is argueably very poor, so are the translations. Most radios with DAB+ and internet radios are just using their hardware design and firmware and put their own label on. So you have a hard time finding a radio that is not using the Frontier Silicon chipset. The Sony radios, as well as the Grundig ones do AFAIK not use Frontier Silicon IP.
Def revisit! Great videos- I got hooked since the DIY bar top arcade! Nice job and HNY2020
Love these videos, as another has said companies buy a licence to put the brand name on their product now. As for the pronunciation I understood it was blau as in plough.
As a German speaker can confirm blau does rhyme with plough.
A bridge-tied load (BTL), also known as bridged transformerless and bridged mono, is an output configuration for audio amplifiers , a form of impedance bridging used mainly in professional audio & car applications.
They went bust in 2016. Their stuff was made in Germany till 2009. Then after they were bought out in 2009 from Bosch, all their stuff was made in China!!
Malaysia, actually. They had joint ventures in China and India, which still exist.
@@MyRegardsToTheDodo Made in China on the back what a shame Another good company gone other companies just using their name but very poor quality
@@pauldavies6037 That's what happens when companies don't go with the time and get obsolete. Made in China isn't neccessarily a sign of bad quality though (I'd be more worried if it was Made in USA). Also Blaupunkt never was a high-end brand, or atleast hasn't been since the 1980s.
The people that say you're paranoid about getting copyright claimed obviously don't have a channel with monetized videos.
You can replace the 8002B amp chip with the LM4871 and it shouldn't have that issue again. But the 8002A and 8002B chips are still normally pretty reliable. Sainsbury's Supermarkets might have gotten a bad batch of the chips.
Blaupunkt, yeah right haha. Have two Tesco DAB radios (no DAB, only FM worked), look very similar inside. Also these models are slightly different inside. I think they use what is available and cheap. Very hackable devices especially the screen and the buttons. Put a raspberry Pi in it because I was unable to fix it. The 'bluetooth thing' is the processor + DAB/FM integrated solution and to get a datasheet of the thing you need a license. That was the reason my repair halted.
Would like to see the revisit vid,I have just today replaced the whole circuit board for exactly the same problem as yours,and it was my fault as I used a universal charger and forgot to check the output voltage so it blew the board at 12v,should have been 6v,stupid me!!
Love your videos btw.
Yay!!!! You bought an o'scope!
What time?
@@joshm264 around 4:42 mark he mentioned buying a handheld scope.
BTW Vince you can get 20 of the ICs for 47p delivered on AliExpress. I wonder if running two in parallel would result in a more reliable radio?
Hi Vince. I would love to see a revisit.
Have a look at Farnells website for the flux or go direct to Amtech and order, then you know it's genuine. Great video as usual Vince 👍😁
Please do a revisit video Vince when you get the new chips
Easily clean stickers with Naphtha - sold as Zippo Lighter Fluid, Ronsonol Lighter Fluid, or VM&P (varnish makers and paint) grade naphtha (quart size) from a paint store.
Squirt and wipe off. Gloves recommended. Similar but stronger than IPA.
I use it to clean sticky goo and labels off of cardboard boxes, and plastic cartridges.
ˆThis!
Naphtha will safely and effectively clean almost anything without damaging or discoloring any material including plastics. I worked at a factory where they made contact lenses and it was what we used to clean machining residues off the unfinished lenses. Unlike other solvents, once it evaporates it leaves no residue, moisture or even smell. You have to work fast though, as it evaporates very quickly. All that said, only use it in a well ventilated area. I got sick once from exposure to the fumes (it was several hours, but still). Also, keep it well away from any open flames and sparks. It _is_ lighter fluid, after all. Flammable is putting it mildly.
Great video. If I were you, I would have checked for maybe a 5watts chip upgrade with the same pinouts ? Maybe the volume just overloads the chip if it's 3 watts maximum. Might be a little dearer, but the fault might be a long term fix ?
The rosin by sorin ..”the flux you’ve been looking for”
The revisit would be great!
Your channel grew so much that you should consider doing sponsored videos/ making sponsor deals with different brands. It'd probably make you more money than the ad revenue. I could easily imagine something like a sponsored deal with iFixit or something like that.
well done as always man. I wanted to let you know ive started buy faulty items and im going to repair them myself just like you! thank you! any pointers?
49.29 so agree. I have to be so careful filming in public. Always some music in background. Live streamers are now mirror image video to blank out company names too. Then you see channels on RUclips making heaps cash from talking and showing other channels of TV shows. It's bad that genuine RUclipsrs get spanked. My audio gets me demonetised because it sounds like gunshots. Yep it's auto flagged.
The Frontier Silicon chip module is the DAB receiver.
Hi Just to say thank you for this content 5 stars .
Vince, I've had this IC going faulty on one of those cheap red FM little radios with usb and sdcard mp3 player and it went silent once. I started poking and shorting to the positive randomly some of its leads and noticed the pin 6 to + used to revive it. not sure why it worked but it did.
Happy new year vince, good job
I’m not sure where you can get original amtech flux but I’m sure I heard sorin from electronics repair school once said that he had some original ran out and bought some cheap from eBay and he thought it was better to use!
Wow. These things really are cheaply made if they're using 8002s as amplifiers. That's the same chip amp used in little £2 amplified speakers. What junk!
Impressive how quickly you homed in on the fault with these Vince. I just bought one of those CD boomboxes with "broken" CD player for a fiver delivered. Bloody CD works fine, and thanks to your videos I'm disappointed lol.
Haha, most people would be happy, but not us. I hate buying a faulty item which is working fine :-)
@@Mymatevince hey vince I have a ps3 fat 8gb with red light of death it was repaired before or so they said I would love to see if it was repaired I be more than happy to send it you I have another ps3 slim so it wouldn't matter if it ends up not fixable as you could use as spare parts
Great part 2. Watched the first one and loved it straight away.
Thanks :-)
@@Mymatevince Anytime Vince.
Hi , I was just reading the data sheet of that Power amplifier ic , It stats that @5V in to 4 ohm speaker it should be 2.65W which if fine, The speaker is rated for 3W which means it can handle maximum of 3W , always better to under drive the speaker max Watts. I am just wondering if they are using 5V to the IC or 6V If they used 6V to power the ic this will over dive the speaker and cause the chip to get hot and die prematurely. great video :)
Thanks Anonymous, I didn't measure any voltage going into this chip but once the replacement arrives I will do a revisit. I will feel (or test) the chip to see if it gets hot on full volume and stick a heatsink on it. If I remember I will try and measure the input voltage :-)
Looking foward to the revisit :)
Very nice radios now they work
Awesome! Watched part 1 as well. Happy New year!
i think the reason for the chip faiing so often is that people use them at full volume a lot of the time and there is no heat sink..
also if the out put of an amp is say 3 watts the speaker should be rated higher to stop distortion.
a great video and like you said a real fault finding and fix
Lovely fix on these, had a great laugh when you wiggled the antenna while I was watching at the loose areal wire. Good stuff.
Hi Vince, regarding your request about tack Flux, RS components are a supplier to the electronics industry in the UK, and they have Chipquick no clean tack flux available in large 30cc syringes, might be worth a look. I work in electronics manufacturing myself and our company uses this supplier for many items 👍
Thanks Kenny, that is the exact one that I ordered up :-)
Awesome video as always 👍🏻❤️
I’d love to see the revisit!
yes part three please :-)
Oh yeah I want to see that revisit video
Ofc. I wanna see if China chips works and if there is a function in the top bit of the radio Antenna.
Nice and entertaining as usal! Thank you.
The serial numbers are removed so that they can't be returned under warranty
Bump!
You're getting pretty good at this. Do people buy these things second hand, or are you doing it for the video? These Blaupunkt DAB radios are just Chinese low quality/ low spec things - nothing like Blaupunkt once made.
Yeah, its just a re-badge. The DAB module is pretty high quality but the audio amplifier speaker and power supply are typical of cheep rubbish from china.
Just purely for the video. It is starting to all build up now so I might off load it all at a car boot sale or something :-)
You showed in one video that you were playing "Fur Elise" (Sorry, I don't have the right diacriticals) I was hoping you'd do that with each of the audio clips you play!
The winbond chip is a NOR serial flash chip it probably stores station data. winbond claims to be the 1 supplier of Serial Flash
Great video can’t wait to see what all you fix this year . Your videos are great .
pin 4 of your 8002 is the input - try injecting a sound source directly into pin 4 see if it plays - if it doesnt its the audio chip if it does - its the digital bit! put a capacitor in series with whatever signal you inject just in case. another edit - i really should watch to the end before commenting - the chip is in push pull mode so not grounded - only way to have a short on speaker/headphone outpu is if the chip has popped his cloggs
Happy new year Vince!
Hi Vince, have watched a few of your videos and i like the content. I recently purchased a faulty Bush DAB BD1709 radio from eBay for about £7 with the sole objective of fixing it. It was listed as having no power. I have already figured out that one of the capacitors had blown inside and left a lot of the fluffy insulation inside. I have cleaned that mess up then to discover that a very very tiny smd chip (i think it had 5 pins but not sure, and its probably about 2mm square) im assuming was connected next to that capacitor, had blown also. But because the tiny chip is so small and burnt I am unable to read the code on it. At an educated guess what would you think the chip would be? I am unable to find any schematics for it and I think it was an Argos product. Thanks in advance for any small advice.
D A B R A D I O
(me: remember when dabbing was a thing?)
Is changing the speaker not the wrong way of looking at it? Changing to a more resistant chip would be better or do you need to change more components for that?
I would test the new chip before installing them because it seems to be a common fault
A common issue is when plugging in an out headphones, is that for a brief moment there is a short circuit, so doing that on max volume perhaps that chip will fail.
It is true!
Makes sense!
It is uncommon for "accessory" headphone jacks not to be fitted without any kind of series resistors. _(Yay, triple negation!)_ Even a modest 5.6 ohms would pretty much eliminate this issue.
Exactly what i was thinking what might happened. Good point!