Traditional Anglican churches using the 1928 BCP are growing. Newcomers who previously only knew "roll your own" liturgies in non-denomination church are tired of entertainment and want the solid beauty and grandeur of worshipping our Risen King. Rule of thumb: If a person or family attends three traditional Anglican Sunday services, we'll have them for life. It takes a while to "get it" but once "gotten" it's for life. You can do any number of things on any Sunday morning but the BEST thing is to attend Mass in a Traditional Anglican church and quietly open your ears.
His answer about the importance of sacred moments (aka sacraments) was the best rationale for it I've ever heard. He (almost?) convinced me. He's also right about it being a recipe against materialism. With symbolic gestures you learn that not everything is superficial / mechanic and that there's room for meaning and the abstract.
Yes, a great movie but perhaps not THE best movie. (We have yet to see all movies.) I do very much like his last line too. Working from memory here -- didn't he say, "I die the king's GOOD servant, but God's first." (But here's another point in your favor: Susannah York. Full stop. She, playing the heroes daughter in this movie, was one of the great British cinema beauties of all time; always easy to watch her on the screen! Alas, she reposed in 2011.)
@@l21n18 I have a close friend who attends a parish in the Anglican Church of North America (ACNA) and the Nicene Creed printed in their Book of Common Prayer omits the filioque. I was amazed by that. I was an Episcopalian for most of my life before converting to Orthodoxy and I think all Anglicans would agree with me when I say they are much, much closer to Catholicism than Orthodoxy.
@@cassidyanderson3722 The Filioque clause is not in the original Nicene Creed and, I believe, should be omitted. I do not dispute the theology implied by the clause but if we seek to be "originalist as possible" we should omit the clause since it was never blessed by an ecumenical body of the entire Christian church. Our traditional Anglican parish recites the creed with the clause: My wife and I just fall silent for those disputed words, "and the Son."
I’m also in a traditional parish within ACNA which is a little more on the Anglo-Catholic side of things. The filioque is in brackets the prayer book, and when we get to that part I usually just say “THROUGH the Son..”.
My heart goes out for our seperated anglo-catholic bretheren, especially because i was briefly one before settling down in an Ordinariate Catholic Church. Hopefully one day we can agree on a conditional confirmation and holy orders, and maybe a married priesthood. I believe many anglo-catholics would flock home. I do pray the daily offices morning and evening prayer slightly changed, while praying the rosary and making use of adoration, i very much like where im at, and i would love for us to reuntine in one Holy Catholic Church.
Anglicanism never left the Catholic Church they just defended ancient precedent for England’s independence from the bishop of Rome. We’re not separate from the Catholic faith at all. Y’all were the ones that separated when you left us to join with rome.
Hey!! This guy preaches at a church here in MD! St. Paul’s Anglican Church. So excited to watch this. I’ve been thinking about attending that church for a while now, but haven’t mustered the courage to do so. I’m mostly familiar with the Baptist denomination, but lately I’ve been exploring others, and the Anglican Church is on my list of places to visit. 😊
@@GospelSimplicity Yeah at this rate.. and with your thirst for "nerdy" Church Fathers, we all know where you're heading in a few years. 😉 Anglo-Catholicism indeed seems easier for Protestants (because no papal infallability issues), an English-based framework, some aspects of the Reform..etc, etc..
@@GospelSimplicity there is also some Ordinariate churches in that area, Anglican style Roman Catholic liturgies, highly reccomend. I am a member of one.
❤ Thank you for having this conversation with Fr. Wesley. A few months ago, I began listening to “The Sacramentalists” podcast, which he co-hosts, and I am gleaning so much fruit! 🕊
I enjoyed this conversation very much. I'm 71 yr. old woman and was baptized into the Episcopal Church. I thought I would be a womb to tomb Episcopalian until the apostasy was so bad I was forced to leave. Quite by accident - or through the workings of the Holy Spirit - I was led to an Anglo-Catholic church in the Continuing tradition. I belong to the APA (Anglican Province America) and it's here that I rest my heart - orthodox, masculine, top tier priests of great love and devotion to our Lord. It is my safe haven, my home. I don't fear the future of our Church when I see the quality of the priests coming out of seminaries our jurisdiction expects the young men to attend. Thank you for this video.
"Apostasy": give me a break. The Episcopal Church has followed/is following the *Holy Spirit* into greater and greater TRUTH. I'm a 62, baptized into the Episcopal Church, and love it more than EVER today! God bless and defend the Episcopal Church: "All the Sacraments for All the Baptized". ☩✝☦🕈
@@tgflux You might be in a conservative hold-out parish. I hear that there is an ambitious movement to seek to re-take TEC for Biblical orthodoxy. They are called The Episcopal Fellowship for Renewal. I hope you support them with your time, talent and treasure!
This was super helpful for me. I've been on a deep-dive of Catholic theology recently, but most resources that discuss Catholic Protestant aren't from an Anglican perspective, and I'm Anglican. Thankful for the additional resources to check out, and it's always good to hear from Fr. Wesley! I love The Sacramentalists podcast!
I really enjoyed this interview! I appreciate Fr. Wesley’s respectful attitude toward Roman Catholics. At the same time, I would love to hear him elaborate a little bit more on his thoughts about communion with the pope and why he doesn’t see this as the best option. He touched a bit on papal infallibility and the positives of Anglo-Catholic liturgy and pastoral practice, but I would also love to hear his thoughts on subjects like imputed righteousness, immaculate conception, assumption, etc. Also, I would love to hear him talk more about where he sees Anglo-Catholicism going in the future, especially in the US. (The only Anglo-Catholic parish in my city is super tiny and a long drive from my home).
when I was Anglo-Catholic we believed in and celebrated the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption, however 'Bible alone', 'Faith alone' were NEVER mentioned one way or the other. i've since crossed the Tiber
As an Old Catholic who is saddened by how bizarre many of the children of Utrech have become, and who feels a pull towards wimming either the Tiber o the Hellespont, the continuing Anglicans also are attractive, so I found this particulary interesting.
My hesitancy are much the same as Wesley's. Ans, although I would love there always being a nearby parish, the novus ordo fights against the beauty of holiness.
Looking forward to this. You should really have Archbishop Foley Beach on-what a great story he has to share. He’s an ACNA Anglican ArchBishop and you would love him. Also in the UK Fr Calvin Robinson is amazing! He’s also on GB news there. Excited about this one coming up. ❤️
He’s my bishop as well in ADOTS (though I originally came into Anglicanism via the ACC which is one of the ‘Continuing’ Jurisdictions being confirmed by Bishop Haverland.
Another excellent interview Austin. You mentioned how you might one day compile all the answers to your question about what is the gospel. I, for one, would love to see that. Each person's answers is enlightening and shows something about him/her and their particular faith tradition. Father Wesley's answer with the use of the crucifix was unique and method I might imitate one day.
I am a Catholic, and we used that translation of "On the Incarnation at my (Catholic) college! I especially enjoyed the introduction because C.S. Lewis makes an excellent case for reading old books.
Recently started attending St. Ann Chapel (APCK) in Palo Alto, after 4 years at a local ELCA church. More reverence of Jesus Christ in modern day life.
If the ACC joined the Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter then they can keep much of the Book of Common Prayer, their ad orientem liturgy, sacraments, etc and be in full communion with the Roman Catholic Church. Pope Benedict XVI sought unity because he saw the beauty in the Anglican high church and extended them the opportunity to enter into full communion.
If they joined the Ordinariate more importantly they would also gain the real presence of our Lord Jesus in the Eucharist. What could be more important than that?
@@specialteams28 I don't believe their sacraments are invalid. We are not required as Catholics to believe their sacraments are invalid. As someone who has studied the arguments I don't believe they are. But they are illicit, which is the same as Eastern Orthodox sacraments. So yes they need to be in communion with the Holy Father. Ultimately I believe it comes from a place of pride that Anglican clergy refuse to join the Church, because like he mentioned in the interview, he would have to admit his orders were illicit and that his bishop is a schismatic and also illicit.
@@specialteams28 their orders are valid yet illicit according to Rome. Moreover, both Old Catholics and Eastern Orthodox have acknowledged Anglo Catholic orders.
@@D.N.. well it attracts the older generation, the Bishop of York has tried to set up “cell” churches in homes so as to attract the younger generation.
Love the video, as an Anglican who follows both Gospel Simplicity and the Sacramentalisy podcast this is so cool! If you are looking for more Anglicans to interview on the show perhaps you could reach out to New Kingdom Media, and the Other Paul. They do lots of good youtube videos from the Anglican perspective.
I am a RC that goes to Anglican Ordinariate nearby. The Father said many Anglo-Catholics would be good with communion with Rome in his belief. Why not have your parish (if that’s the correct word) join the Ordinariate and increase the number of Anglican Ordinariates? That would be a blessing!
@@j.g.4942 Hi, it means that I'm Anglican, but my theology is more Lutheran than Anglo-Catholic or reformed Anglican. Practically it means that we're almost Anglo-Catholic, but that we don't venerate icons or invoke the saints, in keeping with the 39 articles.
@@GospelSimplicity, it means he's high church Anglican. If my memory is correct I think the original definition of high Anglican meant an Anglican with Lutheran Theology. Whereas Anglo-Catholic is seen as being higher than high church within Anglicanism.
Hey Austin, Do you remember your guest (Dr. Steven Nemes) that talk about the fatal flaw of Catholicism? On other channels, he had denied the real presence (subtle-ly suggesting Christ deceived people when he said truly, truly(or Amen, Amen) and didn't mean it) in John 6? Now he is going around denying the doctrine of the Trinity? What does this say about Protestantism?
@@GospelSimplicity How does the "invisible" Protestant church restrain its theologians from teaching stuff sends its people off the cliff? Is the Trinity one of your "essentials"?
@@mj6493 Dr. Nemes wasl employed and tought theology at Protestant - Fuller Theological Seminary. What authority do you or any other protestant have to declare that Dr. Nemes has gone over the cliff on his theology?
@@mj6493 Trouble is that Dr. Nemes was trained at Protestant - Fuller Theological Seminary. Also, what authority do you or any other protestants have to proclaim that he gone over the cliff that is binding? You might claim that the Trinity is essential, but Dr. Nemes oblivious doesn't believe that it is. Protestants may claim that there is a list of "essentials", but has anyone ever seen it or is it invisible (just as the "invisible" church)?
This is a question for the Father. I don't understand why you would reccomend an Anglican to attend a Catholic or Othodox church when those churches would withhold the sacraments from them. But I suppose you mean as opposed to a Bible church that doesn't offer the sacraments anyway.
As Luther said, "better blood with the papists than wine with the fanatics" (writing to Zwingli in 1527); we could also add 'grape juice' with the wine
We had a pretty disappointing experience with the continuing Anglican movement. Sorry to Wesley Walker, I really enjoyed listening to him as an Anglican. It's a long story, probably too long for a RUclips comment, but basically we were told "Anglicans are Catholic, too!" And that is... not true. The Anglican Church is a protestant church. If you're like I was--wanting to be Catholic but scared to make the plunge... just jump in. We delayed for too long and I regret all the time I stayed away out of fear. The Catholic Church is where we belong. I loved the 1928 BCP and I still miss it a little bit sometimes, but I finally have peace in my heart.
@@crossvilleengineering1238 It all came down to the papacy for me. I believe that we have to be subject to the Pope as he is the vicar of Christ. (Recommend Steve Ray’s book “Upon this Rock”)
@@crossvilleengineering1238 I’m afraid I don’t fully understand your question … From a lay person’s perspective it’s pretty easy to tell who the pope is. He’s the publicly elected pope. If he’s a bad pope (had them before) we believe he will be prevented from directly teaching false doctrine. (Matthew 16:18) It is not the lay person’s job to scrutinize everything the pope does. We are simply called to live a holy life within the Catholic church. In practical application, I just submit to my local priest and our bishop.
@@crossvilleengineering1238 The church doesn’t stop being the church because there’s a false pope or a dispute over who the pope is. We submit to a visible church, with the pope as its vicar. You’re making it sound complicated, but it’s pretty straightforward.
@@crossvilleengineering1238 There’s a lot of evidence to support the pope having jurisdiction over the whole church, but it’s not something to hash out via RUclips comments. It took me a long time to come around to it myself, for what it’s worth. (The reason we spent some time in the Anglican Church.) I don’t think it’s fair to state that one can’t be sure who the pope is, though. Events like the western schism are not exactly common.
I dont honestly understand the continuing anglicans, like the biggest one ANCA depending the diocese and bishop you get women’s ordination so the entire thing is no longer “pure” so at that point are you just holding on to anti lgbtq and non women bishops?
Also, there's a difference between tradition connoisseurs and people who have to actually experience the tradition from the inside to know how where the chips fall for them on their pilgrim's progress toward a stable spiritual home & a reliable spiritual father...which is the journey I'm on, a sort of journey back to the sacraments & traditions of olde, what I call the babies thrown out with the bathwater of the Radical Reformation, so I have to actually experience Lutheranism & Anglicanism & Catholicism & Eastern Orthodoxy & Oriental Orthodoxy & even Messianic Judaism, to know which mansion I have a conviction towards within Our Father's house. At the moment, I kind of feel like an anti-schismatic œcumenical Christian, something in the realm of Leo Tolstoy's Christian Anarchism with a health reverence for tradition, reason & sacraments...more importantly I want a home to raise a family within, a Church community, I can worship with any number of Christians practicing any number of liturgies out there when I feel called to, but one has to have a Spiritual home, a tradition that grounds your family & binds your marriage.
As a Catholic in communion with the Bishop of Rome and the Catholic Church, I am going to give my opinion. The Anglican Communion is a protestant sect which rejects Catholic teaching. Please reference the 39 articles found in the Book of Common Prayer which every anglican “cleric” must affirm before “ ordination.” The Anglo Catholic faction in this protestant sect has its origins in the Oxford Moment in the 19th century in which these protestants after 400 years re-discovered their Catholic roots. The vast majority of Anglican protestants reject “ Anglo catholicism” as an aberration. Lastly, from the Catholic point of view and as stated by Pope Leo XIII in 1896 “ Anglican Orders have always been and continue to be absolutely null and utterly void!” This is the current teaching of the Catholic Church as affirmed by Pope Benedict XVI as part of the ordinary magisterium of the Church and must be held as an unchangeable dogma.
Because I think precision in language is important, I think it should be clarified that there is no such thing as "the Anglo-Catholic Church" - at least that I know of. "Anglo-Catholicism" is simply a "party" or "wing" within the worldwide Anglican Communion. It began in England with the Oxford movement whose leaders attempted to persuade Anglicans to look to their Catholic heritage. Many of them saw - early on - the futility of their work and became Roman Catholics. This movement did have some minor influence in the history of the Protestant Episcopal Church of the United States; but this influence seems to have been minimal. In summary, "anglo-catholicism" is not an ecclesial body. It is nothing more than a relatively modern movement within the worldwide Anglican Communion and has no known existence outside of that ecclesial body. As to whether this "big tent" Anglican Communion has a future, only time will tell.
@@crossvilleengineering1238 Nope, sorry, that isn’t true. They rebelled against the Catholic Church and chose to teach heresy and replaced the pope with the monarch as their visible head of their church. They broke communion, severing their apostolic succession. The Anglican Church has become a hot mess. It was founded upon sexual malfeasance and is disintegrating due to its repudiation of scripture over sexuality.
Interesting. So the Anglican Catholic Church that is in communion with 3 other Continuing communions doesn't actually exist? Someone should tell that to St. Francis of Assisi Anglican Catholic Church in Gainesville.
The massive fragmentation of the protestant churches is a mark that they are not Christ's one holy church. I love my Christian brothers and sisters, but the effects of Protestantism was like someone throwing a rock at a mirror and seeing it break into a million little pieces. It continues to break off into so many fragments. let us pray for one another-we are all traveling on our journey Home to our Father in Heaven. That we all may be one.
In case you forgot we Protestant Catholics are fragments of the Roman Catholic Church so obviously you keep splitting meaning you are not of Christ. Shallow mind!
I’ve completely lost interest in this particular church. The leadership waffles between tradition and modern day relevancy. Many have left this church to join Catholics or join evangelical groups.
He said 3/4's of the way through if we could figure out a way to be in communion with Rome we would. Well there is - The Ordinariate, Anglicans can keep their beautiful liturgy in the ordinariate etc and be in full communion. Perhaps it's more about swallowing ones pride and accepting that one would have to be re-ordained and confirmed - maybe that's the issue that has to be worked on?
The Deacon of this church was studying to be a priest in the Ordinariate and he left. The reason? They were holding ecumenical dialogues with Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and Muslims and were instructed “As a priest you are not to share the gospel with them you are to make them better jews Muslims Hindus etc.”
@@JTurp correct, Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox are Catholic and all their bishops and priests maintain apostolic succession and the graces bestowed at Pentecost establishing Jesus’ church. Anglicanism was a Protestant and apostasy movement leaving the Catholic Church (the Roman Catholic branch of Catholicism) all of the Catholic Church teachings on the faith are true. Anglicanism teaches both truth and falsehoods.
I’m an ethnic Orthodox but have been occasionally going to the local Episcopal church and I like it. In this country it does feel more the way an Orthodox Church feels in Eastern Europe, whereas the orthodox churches here feel insular at best, and often sectarian or even cultish. I was initially wondering whether women priests would feel a bit strange to me, but it surprisingly doesn’t feel any different than the all male orthodox priesthood.
The 2019 BCP seems a lot more in line Orthodox than Roman with distancing itself from the filioque, and the Epiclesis, yet rejecting transubstantiation.
@@Apriluser I've always thought the Act of Supremacy 1534 decreed Henry the 8th as supreme head of church as was passed down throughout the monarchy, no?
@@Apriluser King Charles III is the Governor of the Church of England. Charley needs to "get a pair" and return the CoE to its Orthodox roots. Command Canterbury and York to throw out all the 20th century nonsense and return to the Faith.
@@patrickho9007 : Yes, the King of England is the head of the Church of England. The title "Defender of the Faith" is passed downto the monarch, but perhaps we should remember that Henry VIII bestowed the title upon himself, with an Act of Parliament in 1544
I don’t see how one can reconcile Anglo Catholicism with the 39 articles particularly the one about praying to saints and using icons and other fond things.
Anglicans have valid orders? The bishops who ordained Anglican priests and later bishops weren't intending to ordain them as Catholic.The "Old Catholic Church" had separated from the Holy See centuries before the Church of England. Therefore they didn't have valid orders and were not ordaining bishops to be in communion with the Holy See. Since Anglicans are from the Church of England, the Church of England recognizes the Monarch as the Head of the Church of England, not a bishop or other cleric. In May Charles III will be crowned by the Archbishop of Canterbury, and will be formally recognized as the Head of the Church of England and by default, all of Anglicanism. These are just a few of the problems with some (not all) of what he said.
The monarch is the head of the Church of England; the Archbishop of Canterbury is the head of Anglicanism. As to Charles, he, like his father, leans towards Orthodoxy. His spiritual father is a monk on Mt. Athos. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
@@peacengrease3901 Old Catholic Church started on 1850. They are not the Catholic Church. Catholics don't really care about the Old Catholic. What they think about the Anglican Church is irrelevant. They are a small splinter group. What is important is what Rome thinks. There are many Anglican bishops and clergy who were reunited and converted to Rome....they too don't bother with the Old Catholic Church. They didn't even convert to the Old Catholic Church which is supposedly more "welcoming".
Would that make it a "conditional consecration"? In seriousness I think this gets directly to the tension that I felt within Anglo-Catholicism. Not wanting to be "Roman" but always with an implicit, subconscious sense that, well, Rome is Right.
@@fungusbeef Someone who would consent to being ordained twice is plainly unfit to be ordained the first time. Does that make the ordination invalid? It's quite a head-scratcher.
Well I'd say there's still a big jump from protestant traditions to Orthodoxy (guessing you mean Eastern Orthodox Western rights). Definitely the 7th Ecumenical council and it's affirmations would be one of them. So it's still not an easy move for Protestants seeking historicity, thought definitely would think it would help out a Roman Catholic or Ultrecht/Old Catholic.
@@tonyrandall8703 yes I definitely keep hearing this but then it seems like many Anglocatholic churches say they accept it but then don't interpret it the same way as Rome or Eastern Orthodox (basically don't assign anathema on those that don't venerate the icons). Then add that much of Anglicanism is Reformed and so that side definitely doesn't claim to follow the 7th Ecumenical Council. But that's just what I have noticed.
@NorthernWaters3 yes this. I was really feeling the pull towards the Eastern Orthodox churches more so than to Rome but then all these issues put a halt to that eagerness.
@@yanalbertoagudelo9687 and yet the list of issues in Rome is long as well. Where do you go then? I can make a list of issues with every church. Your ethnic experience of Orthodoxy isn’t Orthodoxy. It’s an ethnic and cultural thing. I’ve never experienced any of that at an Orthodox parish.
Anglicanism? Study its origin, then you decide? This is a clear dividing line...either the Roman Catholic or Anglican Church is Hertical. This was on a much higher level than Martin Luther the renegade. Someone is ahistorical? Study, Ponder & Submit. Ecclesiastical Headship is essential. The Key: The Holy Spirit, The Holy Catholic Church & The Holy Scriptures!
Please be careful with words and judgments that are probably unwarranted. Neither group is heretical. It is more accurate to say they are both heterodox. Both have innovated after the philioque controversy/addition and the 1054 split with the original Eastern Church, especially Roman Catholicism. Anglo Catholicism resembles Orthodoxy a little closer. See Father Josiah Trenham'd on the Orthodox view of Roman Catholicism.
@NorthernWaters3 I can't not speak for God, the Holy Spirit. My reference was to historic Christianity. The Roman Catholic Church see other branches of Christianity as "separated brethren"...but mind you as brethren. I was making a concise point in regards to Anglicanism and its historic roots. It is a distinct break from its mother church, The Roman Catholic Church .
The Church existed in England long before Augustine showed up in 598AD. Then and only then did the King allow the priests to join together with their Roman brethren. Rome celebrates St. Aristobulus as the first Bishop of England.
the protestants(anglicans included) have invalid sacraments except for the rite of baptism (if the formula is followed without change). it is disingenuous to call themselves catholic because they are not
Nope. Our traditional Anglican Bishop claims his line of apostolic secession through the Old Mathew Line that predates the line claimed by the current RC pope Francis. Some have written that we are more "Catholic than the Roman Church."
The simplest reason for being Anglo-Catholic instead of Roman Catholic is that you reject papal infallibility. And if you’re prepared to accept papal infallibility, I have some indulgences to sell you.
@@maxellton I understand very well what both are, thank you, along with the medieval development of the doctrine of purgatory, indulgences, and the ‘treasury of merit’ and the difference between papal primacy and papal supremacy and the arguments both for and against the assertions of Rome, and I find these Roman claims unconvincing. Simple as that.
Austin, your ambivalence is unreal! You know that there is only His One True Church When are you going to embrace her as you can’t procrastinate forever! Grow some & make a decision because your equivocation is unattractive!
I'm a former anglo-catholic high-church Episcopalian.. these High Church aka ango catholic parishes are full of active unrepentant homosexual men who are either former Catholics or episcopalians that appreciate the beauty of the high Church mass ...I attended a high-church cathedral with beautiful sounding men and boys choir, great organ it had a very high liturgical church services.. most of the single men at the services were homosexual also the dean of the cathedral would give homilies sermons approving gay stuff...their churches were just beautiful museums... I did not feel the holy spirit in these churches although because they were Gothic Cathedrals and very well-built with the most expensive bricks and stones and glass windows...even built better than the Catholic cathedral in the same town which was cheap compared to the Episcopalian Cathedral but the fact of the matter is their sacraments are no sacraments at all their Eucharist is simply Bread and Wine their vestments are beautiful seventeenth-century eighteenth-century high church catholic vestments but it was like a mannequin wearing them ...high-church Episcopalianism so-called anglo-catholics are full of crap... they will lead you to Hellfire... they are morally bankrupt and it is a bastion, a swamp of sexual immorality and also in this diocese there were quite a few active homosexual men who were frequent frequently seen at gay bars where all sorts of sexual immorality took place in the backrooms so these are really just Broadway Theater liturgical Services... there empty shells houses these beautiful Episcopalian churches with demons and Devils floating around Cathedral trying to convince the stupid people that it is Catholic.... Also child clergy sex abuse was also worst than the catholic church but the gay loving media ignored the Episcopal church lawsuits and only targeted the catholic church... Avoid Anglicanism in the western world. In Africa the Anglican church is a little better... The High church performances are beautiful but not real .. In UK the Anglican church is a branch of government...it's Bishops are fakes and Protestants ...it's is controlled by THE UK PARLIAMENT which is control by LUKEWARM Protestants, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, atheists, agnostics actively gay men and new agers outright demonic people... all non Christians these type of people control who become Bishops there..they control the Anglican Church of England this is the house of Satan... the Anglican communion avoided it ,don't be fooled by the Beautiful vestments the gothic Cathedrals and the Beautiful music it's a trap... also Prince Charles the new king of England is the head of the Church of England and the Anglican communion basically he is a public sinner and shows no Devotion to Christianity because he has to give Islam, Hinduism , the Jews the Atheists, the transgenders and every false religion equal time... Jesus is put into a box a corner that he cannot speak about frequently if ever the.. anglo-catholic church is pure diabolical avoided...AVOID THIS DEAD MOVEMENT....IT JUST LUKEWARM PROTESTANT DECEPTION ...ROMAN CATHOLIC CHRISTIANITYY IS FROM GOD....ANGLICAN HIGH CHURCH FAKE CHRISTIANITYY IS FROM SATAN... I was at a beautiful Episcopal Church in Midtown Manhattavn last year because staying in a hotel and across the street was a anglo-catholic church I thought it was a good Episcopal Parish because it was high anglo-catholic service i read on their website the church was magnificent built called st. Mary's Episcopal church and Midtown Manhattan between 47th and 48th Street huge Gothic Cathedral type of church although it's not a cathedral and in the homily the male priests made reference to his husband several times I was shocked because I thought these were the good episcopalians with the very Catholic high mass very liturgico he mentioned his husband and I said oh my God I'm in the wrong place and I looked up and read their website again and discovered it it was a LGBTQ+ t-affirming church and it was disaster... the Anglican holy orders were declared invalid by by one of the Pope's hundreds of years ago one of the reasons the Anglican orders are invalid is that Episcopal church services even their High Church mass they do not believe that the Eucharist is a sacrifice a re-enactment of calvary..Episcopal priests are ordained it is not their intention to offer the Mass as a sacrificed... therefore the pope had to declare their orders invalid also the ordination of Bishops the anglicans change the words of ordination to install a bishop a few other areas also makes their priest simply layperson in priestly garb...but for the most part the Anglican orders High Church , low Church, Middle Church or all invalid holy orders... therefore they are basically calvinist dressed up as Catholics living as pagans and whatever they are feel like doing they do...
It looks like you’re getting Continuing Anglicans, like what Fr. Wesley is part of, to the Episcopal Church. Continuing Anglicans have largely not compromised on areas like sexual ethics.
@JOHNLONG. 👍👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 perhaps you like to consider posting your comments on the channel "Barely Protestant" by Anglican priest Fr James Gadomski. Anglicanism has been fragmented into many camps. Droves of Anglicans including prominent clergy have crossed the Tiber.
John: Please note that the host of Gospel Simplicity assures you that you can have Jesus and a therapist too. Get a grip man, you're clearly losing it!
Traditional Anglican churches using the 1928 BCP are growing. Newcomers who previously only knew "roll your own" liturgies in non-denomination church are tired of entertainment and want the solid beauty and grandeur of worshipping our Risen King. Rule of thumb: If a person or family attends three traditional Anglican Sunday services, we'll have them for life. It takes a while to "get it" but once "gotten" it's for life. You can do any number of things on any Sunday morning but the BEST thing is to attend Mass in a Traditional Anglican church and quietly open your ears.
Sounds exactly like trad caths. Funny.
Amen.
Wow - Austin did not avoid the obvious (difficult) questions and Father answered without any avoidance. Extraordinary !
I don't take it lightly that people would give an hour of their time to watch this, so I wanted to ask the most important questions
His answer about the importance of sacred moments (aka sacraments) was the best rationale for it I've ever heard.
He (almost?) convinced me.
He's also right about it being a recipe against materialism.
With symbolic gestures you learn that not everything is superficial / mechanic and that there's room for meaning and the abstract.
@@goofygrandlouis6296 I agree
Arguably best movie of all times.
Man for all seasons.
"I die as King's servant, but God first"
-St. Thomas Moore
Yes, a great movie but perhaps not THE best movie. (We have yet to see all movies.) I do very much like his last line too. Working from memory here -- didn't he say, "I die the king's GOOD servant, but God's first." (But here's another point in your favor: Susannah York. Full stop. She, playing the heroes daughter in this movie, was one of the great British cinema beauties of all time; always easy to watch her on the screen! Alas, she reposed in 2011.)
Yessssss! Fr. Wes is great! So excited for this!
As an Orthodox Christian who greatly enjoys listening to the The Sacramentalists podcast, I'm super excited about this!
+1 for the sacramentalists!
If this was normal Anglicanism, could they come into communion with the Eastern Orthodox?
@@l21n18 I have a close friend who attends a parish in the Anglican Church of North America (ACNA) and the Nicene Creed printed in their Book of Common Prayer omits the filioque. I was amazed by that. I was an Episcopalian for most of my life before converting to Orthodoxy and I think all Anglicans would agree with me when I say they are much, much closer to Catholicism than Orthodoxy.
@@cassidyanderson3722 The Filioque clause is not in the original Nicene Creed and, I believe, should be omitted. I do not dispute the theology implied by the clause but if we seek to be "originalist as possible" we should omit the clause since it was never blessed by an ecumenical body of the entire Christian church. Our traditional Anglican parish recites the creed with the clause: My wife and I just fall silent for those disputed words, "and the Son."
I’m also in a traditional parish within ACNA which is a little more on the Anglo-Catholic side of things. The filioque is in brackets the prayer book, and when we get to that part I usually just say “THROUGH the Son..”.
My heart goes out for our seperated anglo-catholic bretheren, especially because i was briefly one before settling down in an Ordinariate Catholic Church. Hopefully one day we can agree on a conditional confirmation and holy orders, and maybe a married priesthood. I believe many anglo-catholics would flock home. I do pray the daily offices morning and evening prayer slightly changed, while praying the rosary and making use of adoration, i very much like where im at, and i would love for us to reuntine in one Holy Catholic Church.
Anglicanism never left the Catholic Church they just defended ancient precedent for England’s independence from the bishop of Rome. We’re not separate from the Catholic faith at all. Y’all were the ones that separated when you left us to join with rome.
I was on the debate team when Wesley was! So cool to see him pop up here. Great conversation!
Heyyy! Small world!
That's so cool!
Hey!! This guy preaches at a church here in MD! St. Paul’s Anglican Church. So excited to watch this. I’ve been thinking about attending that church for a while now, but haven’t mustered the courage to do so. I’m mostly familiar with the Baptist denomination, but lately I’ve been exploring others, and the Anglican Church is on my list of places to visit. 😊
It's on my list too! My wife and I will be moving closer to that church soon, so I look forward to stopping by some time
That’s only 30min from me. I might have to check it out one day
Y’all come on down this Sunday! There’s also a newcomers class on saturdays at 11. Would love to have y’all!
@@GospelSimplicity Yeah at this rate.. and with your thirst for "nerdy" Church Fathers, we all know where you're heading in a few years. 😉
Anglo-Catholicism indeed seems easier for Protestants (because no papal infallability issues), an English-based framework, some aspects of the Reform..etc, etc..
@@GospelSimplicity there is also some Ordinariate churches in that area, Anglican style Roman Catholic liturgies, highly reccomend. I am a member of one.
So excited for this one!
❤ Thank you for having this conversation with Fr. Wesley. A few months ago, I began listening to “The Sacramentalists” podcast, which he co-hosts, and I am gleaning so much fruit! 🕊
I enjoyed this conversation very much. I'm 71 yr. old woman and was baptized into the Episcopal Church. I thought I would be a womb to tomb Episcopalian until the apostasy was so bad I was forced to leave. Quite by accident - or through the workings of the Holy Spirit - I was led to an Anglo-Catholic church in the Continuing tradition. I belong to the APA (Anglican Province America) and it's here that I rest my heart - orthodox, masculine, top tier priests of great love and devotion to our Lord. It is my safe haven, my home. I don't fear the future of our Church when I see the quality of the priests coming out of seminaries our jurisdiction expects the young men to attend. Thank you for this video.
"Apostasy": give me a break. The Episcopal Church has followed/is following the *Holy Spirit* into greater and greater TRUTH. I'm a 62, baptized into the Episcopal Church, and love it more than EVER today!
God bless and defend the Episcopal Church: "All the Sacraments for All the Baptized". ☩✝☦🕈
@@tgflux You might be in a conservative hold-out parish. I hear that there is an ambitious movement to seek to re-take TEC for Biblical orthodoxy. They are called The Episcopal Fellowship for Renewal. I hope you support them with your time, talent and treasure!
@@albertito77 Not unless I'm possessed by the devil.
This was super helpful for me. I've been on a deep-dive of Catholic theology recently, but most resources that discuss Catholic Protestant aren't from an Anglican perspective, and I'm Anglican. Thankful for the additional resources to check out, and it's always good to hear from Fr. Wesley! I love The Sacramentalists podcast!
I really enjoyed this interview! I appreciate Fr. Wesley’s respectful attitude toward Roman Catholics. At the same time, I would love to hear him elaborate a little bit more on his thoughts about communion with the pope and why he doesn’t see this as the best option. He touched a bit on papal infallibility and the positives of Anglo-Catholic liturgy and pastoral practice, but I would also love to hear his thoughts on subjects like imputed righteousness, immaculate conception, assumption, etc. Also, I would love to hear him talk more about where he sees Anglo-Catholicism going in the future, especially in the US. (The only Anglo-Catholic parish in my city is super tiny and a long drive from my home).
when I was Anglo-Catholic we believed in and celebrated the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption, however 'Bible alone', 'Faith alone' were NEVER mentioned one way or the other. i've since crossed the Tiber
What a loving, open, honest and truly pastoral priest. I'd love to have him for a spiritual director!
As an Old Catholic who is saddened by how bizarre many of the children of Utrech have become, and who feels a pull towards wimming either the Tiber o the Hellespont, the continuing Anglicans also are attractive, so I found this particulary interesting.
Just come home to Rome, Dale
@@SammyJ.. I just might.
My hesitancy are much the same as Wesley's. Ans, although I would love there always being a nearby parish, the novus ordo fights against the beauty of holiness.
Become Orthodox Dale. We have western rite which you would love
@@spiderb3367 but not here. Yes, I love the Western Rite. But the local parish is rather ethnic and unfriendly.
Looking forward to this. You should really have Archbishop Foley Beach on-what a great story he has to share. He’s an ACNA Anglican ArchBishop and you would love him. Also in the UK Fr Calvin Robinson is amazing! He’s also on GB news there. Excited about this one coming up. ❤️
Hope you enjoy it! I'll see what I can do about the others
He was my parish priest and now my Archbishop. Holy Cross Anglican Cathedral.
Foley Beach would be a great interview
He’s my bishop as well in ADOTS (though I originally came into Anglicanism via the ACC which is one of the ‘Continuing’ Jurisdictions being confirmed by Bishop Haverland.
Brilliant conversation. Both speakers are well educated, articulate, and obviously spirit-led.
60 seconds away now. Thank you for these incredible interviews Austin!
Blimey! Never thought you do this one. Bravo! Im an English AC in London. Love Anglo-Catholicism.
Another great video! Not my denomination but my tradition (ACNA vice ACC). Always great to see Anglican interviews.
Im an anglo catholic in tec and i really enjoyed this interviewed with fr wesley
Another excellent interview Austin. You mentioned how you might one day compile all the answers to your question about what is the gospel. I, for one, would love to see that. Each person's answers is enlightening and shows something about him/her and their particular faith tradition. Father Wesley's answer with the use of the crucifix was unique and method I might imitate one day.
Really helpful talk. Thank you.
Really enjoyed this conversation
Any other Lutherans subscribed to this channel, feel more Luther-catholic. The best way I can describe where I am at.
really enjoyable conversation here, thanx Austin!!
On the Incarnation is an awsome book it was one of the first patristic writing I read as well and it had a huge impact on my theology.
I am a Catholic, and we used that translation of "On the Incarnation at my (Catholic) college! I especially enjoyed the introduction because C.S. Lewis makes an excellent case for reading old books.
You should do the following video: ‘An Introduction to the Old-Catholic church’.
Interesting idea
Great interview!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Recently started attending St. Ann Chapel (APCK) in Palo Alto, after 4 years at a local ELCA church. More reverence of Jesus Christ in modern day life.
God bless you and your ministry Austin!
Thank you!
If the ACC joined the Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter then they can keep much of the Book of Common Prayer, their ad orientem liturgy, sacraments, etc and be in full communion with the Roman Catholic Church. Pope Benedict XVI sought unity because he saw the beauty in the Anglican high church and extended them the opportunity to enter into full communion.
If they joined the Ordinariate more importantly they would also gain the real presence of our Lord Jesus in the Eucharist. What could be more important than that?
@@specialteams28 I don't believe their sacraments are invalid. We are not required as Catholics to believe their sacraments are invalid. As someone who has studied the arguments I don't believe they are. But they are illicit, which is the same as Eastern Orthodox sacraments. So yes they need to be in communion with the Holy Father.
Ultimately I believe it comes from a place of pride that Anglican clergy refuse to join the Church, because like he mentioned in the interview, he would have to admit his orders were illicit and that his bishop is a schismatic and also illicit.
@@specialteams28 their orders are valid yet illicit according to Rome. Moreover, both Old Catholics and Eastern Orthodox have acknowledged Anglo Catholic orders.
@@peacengrease3901 Their orders are actually invalid according to Rome
I"d rather them be Western Rite Orthodox.
I’m not sure what the Anglican Church is like in the states but here in the UK it’s slowly dying out.
Try the Anglican Mission in England.
@@janetsmiley6778 I found some stats that said by the 2050, the Anglican Church in the Uk will have died out
Anglican church in US is also dying, it has been losing members for years for many reasons.
@@D.N..
That’s the Episcopal Church. However, many other expressions of Anglicanism are growing.
@@D.N.. well it attracts the older generation, the Bishop of York has tried to set up “cell” churches in homes so as to attract the younger generation.
Love the video, as an Anglican who follows both Gospel Simplicity and the Sacramentalisy podcast this is so cool! If you are looking for more Anglicans to interview on the show perhaps you could reach out to New Kingdom Media, and the Other Paul. They do lots of good youtube videos from the Anglican perspective.
Thanks! I'll have to check them out
I am a RC that goes to Anglican Ordinariate nearby. The Father said many Anglo-Catholics would be good with communion with Rome in his belief. Why not have your parish (if that’s the correct word) join the Ordinariate and increase the number of Anglican Ordinariates? That would be a blessing!
Any other Anglo-Lutherans out here in the comments section?
Is that a Lutheran with British heritage, a Lutheran speaking English, or a Lutheran in communion with Canterbury?
Curious about this as well
@@j.g.4942 Hi, it means that I'm Anglican, but my theology is more Lutheran than Anglo-Catholic or reformed Anglican. Practically it means that we're almost Anglo-Catholic, but that we don't venerate icons or invoke the saints, in keeping with the 39 articles.
@@GospelSimplicity, it means he's high church Anglican. If my memory is correct I think the original definition of high Anglican meant an Anglican with Lutheran Theology. Whereas Anglo-Catholic is seen as being higher than high church within Anglicanism.
@@he7230 Lutheranism and anything Reformed mix like oil and water.
Hey Austin, Do you remember your guest (Dr. Steven Nemes) that talk about the fatal flaw of Catholicism? On other channels, he had denied the real presence (subtle-ly suggesting Christ deceived people when he said truly, truly(or Amen, Amen) and didn't mean it) in John 6? Now he is going around denying the doctrine of the Trinity?
What does this say about Protestantism?
I'm not sure it says much. What does one person from any tradition say about the whole?
@@GospelSimplicity How does the "invisible" Protestant church restrain its theologians from teaching stuff sends its people off the cliff? Is the Trinity one of your "essentials"?
@@johnlee6780 If they are sending people off a cliff, they are no longer Protestant. Yes, the Trinity is one of the essentials.
@@mj6493 Dr. Nemes wasl employed and tought theology at Protestant - Fuller Theological Seminary. What authority do you or any other protestant have to declare that Dr. Nemes has gone over the cliff on his theology?
@@mj6493 Trouble is that Dr. Nemes was trained at Protestant - Fuller Theological Seminary. Also, what authority do you or any other protestants have to proclaim that he gone over the cliff that is binding? You might claim that the Trinity is essential, but Dr. Nemes oblivious doesn't believe that it is. Protestants may claim that there is a list of "essentials", but has anyone ever seen it or is it invisible (just as the "invisible" church)?
This is a question for the Father. I don't understand why you would reccomend an Anglican to attend a Catholic or Othodox church when those churches would withhold the sacraments from them. But I suppose you mean as opposed to a Bible church that doesn't offer the sacraments anyway.
This, exactly.
Because at least you get to participate in the mass even if you don’t receive the sacrament.
Also they have apostolic succession
As Luther said, "better blood with the papists than wine with the fanatics" (writing to Zwingli in 1527); we could also add 'grape juice' with the wine
We had a pretty disappointing experience with the continuing Anglican movement. Sorry to Wesley Walker, I really enjoyed listening to him as an Anglican. It's a long story, probably too long for a RUclips comment, but basically we were told "Anglicans are Catholic, too!" And that is... not true. The Anglican Church is a protestant church. If you're like I was--wanting to be Catholic but scared to make the plunge... just jump in. We delayed for too long and I regret all the time I stayed away out of fear. The Catholic Church is where we belong. I loved the 1928 BCP and I still miss it a little bit sometimes, but I finally have peace in my heart.
@@crossvilleengineering1238 It all came down to the papacy for me. I believe that we have to be subject to the Pope as he is the vicar of Christ. (Recommend Steve Ray’s book “Upon this Rock”)
@@crossvilleengineering1238 I’m afraid I don’t fully understand your question … From a lay person’s perspective it’s pretty easy to tell who the pope is. He’s the publicly elected pope. If he’s a bad pope (had them before) we believe he will be prevented from directly teaching false doctrine. (Matthew 16:18)
It is not the lay person’s job to scrutinize everything the pope does. We are simply called to live a holy life within the Catholic church. In practical application, I just submit to my local priest and our bishop.
@@crossvilleengineering1238 The church doesn’t stop being the church because there’s a false pope or a dispute over who the pope is. We submit to a visible church, with the pope as its vicar. You’re making it sound complicated, but it’s pretty straightforward.
@@crossvilleengineering1238 There’s a lot of evidence to support the pope having jurisdiction over the whole church, but it’s not something to hash out via RUclips comments. It took me a long time to come around to it myself, for what it’s worth. (The reason we spent some time in the Anglican Church.) I don’t think it’s fair to state that one can’t be sure who the pope is, though. Events like the western schism are not exactly common.
@@crossvilleengineering1238 I think my husband may have read that one, I’ll have to ask him! Wish you the best.
I dont honestly understand the continuing anglicans, like the biggest one ANCA depending the diocese and bishop you get women’s ordination so the entire thing is no longer “pure” so at that point are you just holding on to anti lgbtq and non women bishops?
Also, there's a difference between tradition connoisseurs and people who have to actually experience the tradition from the inside to know how where the chips fall for them on their pilgrim's progress toward a stable spiritual home & a reliable spiritual father...which is the journey I'm on, a sort of journey back to the sacraments & traditions of olde, what I call the babies thrown out with the bathwater of the Radical Reformation, so I have to actually experience Lutheranism & Anglicanism & Catholicism & Eastern Orthodoxy & Oriental Orthodoxy & even Messianic Judaism, to know which mansion I have a conviction towards within Our Father's house.
At the moment, I kind of feel like an anti-schismatic œcumenical Christian, something in the realm of Leo Tolstoy's Christian Anarchism with a health reverence for tradition, reason & sacraments...more importantly I want a home to raise a family within, a Church community, I can worship with any number of Christians practicing any number of liturgies out there when I feel called to, but one has to have a Spiritual home, a tradition that grounds your family & binds your marriage.
As a Methodist who leans more to high church I feel very simpathetic to Anglo-Catholics.
As a Catholic in communion with the Bishop of Rome and the Catholic Church, I am going to give my opinion. The Anglican Communion is a protestant sect which rejects Catholic teaching. Please reference the 39 articles found in the Book of Common Prayer which every anglican “cleric” must affirm before “ ordination.” The Anglo Catholic faction in this protestant sect has its origins in the Oxford Moment in the 19th century in which these protestants after 400 years re-discovered their Catholic roots. The vast majority of Anglican protestants reject “ Anglo catholicism” as an aberration.
Lastly, from the Catholic point of view and as stated by Pope Leo XIII in 1896 “ Anglican Orders have always been and continue to be absolutely null and utterly void!” This is the current teaching of the Catholic Church as affirmed by Pope Benedict XVI as part of the ordinary magisterium of the Church and must be held as an unchangeable dogma.
Because I think precision in language is important, I think it should be clarified that there is no such thing as "the Anglo-Catholic Church" - at least that I know of. "Anglo-Catholicism" is simply a "party" or "wing" within the worldwide Anglican Communion. It began in England with the Oxford movement whose leaders attempted to persuade Anglicans to look to their Catholic heritage. Many of them saw - early on - the futility of their work and became Roman Catholics. This movement did have some minor influence in the history of the Protestant Episcopal Church of the United States; but this influence seems to have been minimal. In summary, "anglo-catholicism" is not an ecclesial body. It is nothing more than a relatively modern movement within the worldwide Anglican Communion and has no known existence outside of that ecclesial body. As to whether this "big tent" Anglican Communion has a future, only time will tell.
? There are breakaway ecclesial bodies such as the ANCA and the one he belongs to Anglian Province of America
@@toddvoss52 The breakaway is the ECUSA as they broke away from scripture and Christ.
Anglo-Catholic = Future Catholic
@@crossvilleengineering1238 Nope, sorry, that isn’t true. They rebelled against the Catholic Church and chose to teach heresy and replaced the pope with the monarch as their visible head of their church. They broke communion, severing their apostolic succession. The Anglican Church has become a hot mess. It was founded upon sexual malfeasance and is disintegrating due to its repudiation of scripture over sexuality.
Interesting. So the Anglican Catholic Church that is in communion with 3 other Continuing communions doesn't actually exist? Someone should tell that to St. Francis of Assisi Anglican Catholic Church in Gainesville.
Check out the Personal Ordinate of the Chair of St Peter. Anglicans who swam the Tiber but kept the Anglican tradition.
better still check out the SSPX
Orthodox Protestant here...
Thornton is a good read. English Spirituality.
Place him beside a RC priest and I won't be able to tell the difference. This is the closest anyone can get as 'separated' brethren.
I had that same thought at various moments in the interview!
The massive fragmentation of the protestant churches is a mark that they are not Christ's one holy church. I love my Christian brothers and sisters, but the effects of Protestantism was like someone throwing a rock at a mirror and seeing it break into a million little pieces. It continues to break off into so many fragments. let us pray for one another-we are all traveling on our journey Home to our Father in Heaven. That we all may be one.
In case you forgot we Protestant Catholics are fragments of the Roman Catholic Church so obviously you keep splitting meaning you are not of Christ. Shallow mind!
I’ve completely lost interest in this particular church. The leadership waffles between tradition and modern day relevancy. Many have left this church to join Catholics or join evangelical groups.
Or to join Western Rite Orthodox parishes...
24:34 useful
on defense of orders
Wait, I just read the Athanasius Incarnation including CS Lewis, and it was the first real patristic writing I’ve read… hmm eerie
Ironic...AngloCatholic movement...John Henry Newman converted to Roman Catholicism....
St John Henry Newman ora pro nobis
He said 3/4's of the way through if we could figure out a way to be in communion with Rome we would. Well there is - The Ordinariate, Anglicans can keep their beautiful liturgy in the ordinariate etc and be in full communion. Perhaps it's more about swallowing ones pride and accepting that one would have to be re-ordained and confirmed - maybe that's the issue that has to be worked on?
Exactly. The Ordinariate would welcome him and many of the priests of the high Anglican Church.
The Deacon of this church was studying to be a priest in the Ordinariate and he left. The reason? They were holding ecumenical dialogues with Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and Muslims and were instructed “As a priest you are not to share the gospel with them you are to make them better jews Muslims Hindus etc.”
@@JTurp the Church of England isn’t Catholic if it’s bishops aren’t chosen by and obedient to the Roman Catholic Church
@@JTurp correct, Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox are Catholic and all their bishops and priests maintain apostolic succession and the graces bestowed at Pentecost establishing Jesus’ church. Anglicanism was a Protestant and apostasy movement leaving the Catholic Church (the Roman Catholic branch of Catholicism) all of the Catholic Church teachings on the faith are true. Anglicanism teaches both truth and falsehoods.
I’m an ethnic Orthodox but have been occasionally going to the local Episcopal church and I like it. In this country it does feel more the way an Orthodox Church feels in Eastern Europe, whereas the orthodox churches here feel insular at best, and often sectarian or even cultish.
I was initially wondering whether women priests would feel a bit strange to me, but it surprisingly doesn’t feel any different than the all male orthodox priesthood.
The problem with Anglicans is the lack of apostolic succession.
The 2019 BCP seems a lot more in line Orthodox than Roman with distancing itself from the filioque, and the Epiclesis, yet rejecting transubstantiation.
Beauty of Anglo Catholicism is their communion with the Vatican. The main Anglican still has The King of England as their head of church
The King is not the head of the Church; he’s the “defender of the faith.” A bit of a difference.
@@Apriluser I've always thought the Act of Supremacy 1534 decreed Henry the 8th as supreme head of church as was passed down throughout the monarchy, no?
@@Apriluser King Charles III is the Governor of the Church of England. Charley needs to "get a pair" and return the CoE to its Orthodox roots. Command Canterbury and York to throw out all the 20th century nonsense and return to the Faith.
@@patrickho9007 :
Yes, the King of England is the head of the Church of England.
The title "Defender of the Faith" is passed downto the monarch, but perhaps we should remember that Henry VIII bestowed the title upon himself, with an Act of Parliament in 1544
So-called "Anglo Catholicism" is most definitely NOT in Communion with the Catholic Church.
You can be Anglican or Catholic, but not both.
CS Lewis was actually a space alien. True story.
I don’t see how one can reconcile Anglo Catholicism with the 39 articles particularly the one about praying to saints and using icons and other fond things.
Anglicans have valid orders? The bishops who ordained Anglican priests and later bishops weren't intending to ordain them as Catholic.The "Old Catholic Church" had separated from the Holy See centuries before the Church of England. Therefore they didn't have valid orders and were not ordaining bishops to be in communion with the Holy See. Since Anglicans are from the Church of England, the Church of England recognizes the Monarch as the Head of the Church of England, not a bishop or other cleric. In May Charles III will be crowned by the Archbishop of Canterbury, and will be formally recognized as the Head of the Church of England and by default, all of Anglicanism. These are just a few of the problems with some (not all) of what he said.
The monarch is the head of the Church of England; the Archbishop of Canterbury is the head of Anglicanism. As to Charles, he, like his father, leans towards Orthodoxy. His spiritual father is a monk on Mt. Athos. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
@@cassidyanderson3722
The King is the “defense of the faith.”
Valid but illicit according to Rome. Old Catholics and Eastern Orthodox also see Anglo Catholic orders/ sacraments as valid yet non canonical.
@@peacengrease3901 Old Catholic Church started on 1850. They are not the Catholic Church. Catholics don't really care about the Old Catholic. What they think about the Anglican Church is irrelevant. They are a small splinter group. What is important is what Rome thinks. There are many Anglican bishops and clergy who were reunited and converted to Rome....they too don't bother with the Old Catholic Church. They didn't even convert to the Old Catholic Church which is supposedly more "welcoming".
If you think the Pope got it wrong about Anglican orders, then why would you see any need to head for a “Dutch touch” ordination in Utrecht?
Would that make it a "conditional consecration"? In seriousness I think this gets directly to the tension that I felt within Anglo-Catholicism. Not wanting to be "Roman" but always with an implicit, subconscious sense that, well, Rome is Right.
@@fungusbeef Someone who would consent to being ordained twice is plainly unfit to be ordained the first time. Does that make the ordination invalid? It's quite a head-scratcher.
Hmmm. Can’t figure out the draw to Anglicanism in this day and age. Particularly with the Orthodox Western Rite accessible.
Well I'd say there's still a big jump from protestant traditions to Orthodoxy (guessing you mean Eastern Orthodox Western rights). Definitely the 7th Ecumenical council and it's affirmations would be one of them. So it's still not an easy move for Protestants seeking historicity, thought definitely would think it would help out a Roman Catholic or Ultrecht/Old Catholic.
@@yanalbertoagudelo9687 the Anglo Catholics affirm the 7th council though
@@tonyrandall8703 yes I definitely keep hearing this but then it seems like many Anglocatholic churches say they accept it but then don't interpret it the same way as Rome or Eastern Orthodox (basically don't assign anathema on those that don't venerate the icons). Then add that much of Anglicanism is Reformed and so that side definitely doesn't claim to follow the 7th Ecumenical Council. But that's just what I have noticed.
@NorthernWaters3 yes this. I was really feeling the pull towards the Eastern Orthodox churches more so than to Rome but then all these issues put a halt to that eagerness.
@@yanalbertoagudelo9687 and yet the list of issues in Rome is long as well. Where do you go then? I can make a list of issues with every church. Your ethnic experience of Orthodoxy isn’t Orthodoxy. It’s an ethnic and cultural thing. I’ve never experienced any of that at an Orthodox parish.
Anglicanism? Study its origin, then you decide? This is a clear dividing line...either the Roman Catholic or Anglican Church is Hertical. This was on a much higher level than Martin Luther the renegade. Someone is ahistorical? Study, Ponder & Submit. Ecclesiastical Headship is essential.
The Key: The Holy Spirit, The Holy Catholic Church & The Holy Scriptures!
Please be careful with words and judgments that are probably unwarranted. Neither group is heretical. It is more accurate to say they are both heterodox. Both have innovated after the philioque controversy/addition and the 1054 split with the original Eastern Church, especially Roman Catholicism. Anglo Catholicism resembles Orthodoxy a little closer. See Father Josiah Trenham'd on the Orthodox view of Roman Catholicism.
@NorthernWaters3 I can't not speak for God, the Holy Spirit. My reference was to historic Christianity. The Roman Catholic Church see other branches of Christianity as "separated brethren"...but mind you as brethren.
I was making a concise point in regards to Anglicanism and its historic roots. It is a distinct break from its mother church, The Roman Catholic Church .
The Church existed in England long before Augustine showed up in 598AD. Then and only then did the King allow the priests to join together with their Roman brethren. Rome celebrates St. Aristobulus as the first Bishop of England.
the protestants(anglicans included) have invalid sacraments except for the rite of baptism (if the formula is followed without change). it is disingenuous to call themselves catholic because they are not
Nope. Our traditional Anglican Bishop claims his line of apostolic secession through the Old Mathew Line that predates the line claimed by the current RC pope Francis. Some have written that we are more "Catholic than the Roman Church."
@@Borzoi86 🤣
He is not Catholic.. I don’t have much faith in this..
The simplest reason for being Anglo-Catholic instead of Roman Catholic is that you reject papal infallibility. And if you’re prepared to accept papal infallibility, I have some indulgences to sell you.
You seem to have no idea what papal infallibility and indulgences are.
@@maxellton I understand very well what both are, thank you, along with the medieval development of the doctrine of purgatory, indulgences, and the ‘treasury of merit’ and the difference between papal primacy and papal supremacy and the arguments both for and against the assertions of Rome, and I find these Roman claims unconvincing. Simple as that.
Austin, your ambivalence is unreal!
You know that there is only His One True Church When are you going to embrace her as you can’t procrastinate forever! Grow some & make a decision because your equivocation is unattractive!
The way to be Anglican in the United States, is in _The Episcopal Church._ Accept no substitutions!
Anglicans, like all orthodox catholic Christians, believe marriage is a lifelong union between one man and one woman. So no, TEC is not the way.
You can be Anglican or Catholic, but not both, and not half 'n' half!
I'm a former anglo-catholic high-church Episcopalian.. these High Church aka ango catholic parishes are full of active unrepentant homosexual men who are either former Catholics or episcopalians that appreciate the beauty of the high Church mass ...I attended a high-church cathedral with beautiful sounding men and boys choir, great organ it had a very high liturgical church services.. most of the single men at the services were homosexual also the dean of the cathedral would give homilies sermons approving gay stuff...their churches were just beautiful museums... I did not feel the holy spirit in these churches although because they were Gothic Cathedrals and very well-built with the most expensive bricks and stones and glass windows...even built better than the Catholic cathedral in the same town which was cheap compared to the Episcopalian Cathedral but the fact of the matter is their sacraments are no sacraments at all their Eucharist is simply Bread and Wine their vestments are beautiful seventeenth-century eighteenth-century high church catholic vestments but it was like a mannequin wearing them ...high-church Episcopalianism so-called anglo-catholics are full of crap... they will lead you to Hellfire... they are morally bankrupt and it is a bastion, a swamp of sexual immorality and also in this diocese there were quite a few active homosexual men who were frequent frequently seen at gay bars where all sorts of sexual immorality took place in the backrooms so these are really just Broadway Theater liturgical Services... there empty shells houses these beautiful Episcopalian churches with demons and Devils floating around Cathedral trying to convince the stupid people that it is Catholic....
Also child clergy sex abuse was also worst than the catholic church but the gay loving media ignored the Episcopal church lawsuits and only targeted the catholic church...
Avoid Anglicanism in the western world.
In Africa the Anglican church is a little better...
The High church performances are beautiful but not real ..
In UK the Anglican church is a branch of government...it's Bishops are fakes and Protestants ...it's is controlled by THE UK PARLIAMENT which is control by LUKEWARM Protestants, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, atheists, agnostics actively gay men and new agers outright demonic people... all non Christians these type of people control who become Bishops there..they control the Anglican Church of England this is the house of Satan... the Anglican communion avoided it ,don't be fooled by the Beautiful vestments the gothic Cathedrals and the Beautiful music it's a trap... also Prince Charles the new king of England is the head of the Church of England and the Anglican communion basically he is a public sinner and shows no Devotion to Christianity because he has to give Islam, Hinduism , the Jews the Atheists, the transgenders and every false religion equal time... Jesus is put into a box a corner that he cannot speak about frequently if ever the.. anglo-catholic church is pure diabolical avoided...AVOID THIS DEAD MOVEMENT....IT JUST LUKEWARM PROTESTANT DECEPTION ...ROMAN CATHOLIC CHRISTIANITYY IS FROM GOD....ANGLICAN HIGH CHURCH FAKE CHRISTIANITYY IS FROM SATAN... I was at a beautiful Episcopal Church in Midtown Manhattavn last year because staying in a hotel and across the street was a anglo-catholic church I thought it was a good Episcopal Parish because it was high anglo-catholic service i read on their website the church was magnificent built called st. Mary's Episcopal church and Midtown Manhattan between 47th and 48th Street huge Gothic Cathedral type of church although it's not a cathedral and in the homily the male priests made reference to his husband several times I was shocked because I thought these were the good episcopalians with the very Catholic high mass very liturgico he mentioned his husband and I said oh my God I'm in the wrong place and I looked up and read their website again and discovered it it was a LGBTQ+ t-affirming church and it was disaster... the Anglican holy orders were declared invalid by by one of the Pope's hundreds of years ago one of the reasons the Anglican orders are invalid is that Episcopal church services even their High Church mass they do not believe that the Eucharist is a sacrifice a re-enactment of calvary..Episcopal priests are ordained it is not their intention to offer the Mass as a sacrificed... therefore the pope had to declare their orders invalid also the ordination of Bishops the anglicans change the words of ordination to install a bishop a few other areas also makes their priest simply layperson in priestly garb...but for the most part the Anglican orders High Church , low Church, Middle Church or all invalid holy orders... therefore they are basically calvinist dressed up as Catholics living as pagans and whatever they are feel like doing they do...
It looks like you’re getting Continuing Anglicans, like what Fr. Wesley is part of, to the Episcopal Church. Continuing Anglicans have largely not compromised on areas like sexual ethics.
@JOHNLONG. 👍👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 perhaps you like to consider posting your comments on the channel "Barely Protestant" by Anglican priest Fr James Gadomski.
Anglicanism has been fragmented into many camps. Droves of Anglicans including prominent clergy have crossed the Tiber.
John: Please note that the host of Gospel Simplicity assures you that you can have Jesus and a therapist too. Get a grip man, you're clearly losing it!
State of you 🤣
@@williamwilkes503 Au contraire. He’s spot on.