These sensors are two-wire and three-wire. Those with two wires are connected in series with the load. Naturally, the lamp resistance is too high and the sensor will not work correctly. And with those in which the phase is placed in a separate wire and a relay is built in, these lamps will work well.
This lamp has an IP rating of 20, which means it has no protection against dust or moisture. Therefor it's meant for indoor use only, and not in 'security' lights outside your house. That's what the symbol says.
@@ianhosier4042 IP2X means it's touch resistant (the British Standard, 11mm, index fingers can't get into it). So no dust resistance. The 0 means completely irresistant to water.
I still have on of Philips’ first generation of LED lamps. A big beast with a big aluminium heat sink and lovely colour. It’s probably been on 12h a day on average for nearly 20 years, and still works fine. Well worth the £35 it cost back then.
@@flexairz those statistics were for the old incandescent bulb. not sure what they are now but that's why they last longer , they don't burn out or self destruct when you turn the switch on .
Yeaaah i know in USA The White L-prize well i still have 1 of The big heatsink LED lamp 12 w button The standaard without The yellow remonte phosphor and The "Royal blue" dedicated luxeon power LEDs costs a arm( 60 euro.s ) here in EU now all ledlamps are cheap COB (and The Filament version) SMD s
Installed at load of Sylvania 5W GU10 lamps years ago and they are just starting to fail, replacements are only lasting months rather than years. Should send one to Clive for the autopsy.
I worked for Philips for years . Everything they do is over engineered however their choice of components seemed to be based on what someone had over ordered years ago
I remember what quality they did back in the 1980's when we are talking televisions as an example. Philips always made the best. Stereo audio equipment not so much. They never did any HIFI that was as good as NAD. But televisions and especially CRT tubes, oh boy they knew their stuff. The exact reason why B&O used philips inside their nice designed enclosures. Here in Denmark, we had a saying in the 1980's, that if you bought B&O, you actually bought expensive Philips. The design and that it was produced inside Denmark, were what made it expensive.
@@brostenen mmm, I've had 2 Philips TV's, one in the 80's & one in the late 90's. I got my money back on both of them, they were rubbish. The first one threw a wobbler every time a car drove past the house & the second one made big bangs at random intervals.
@@philb2334 Depends on what you paid for them back then. Sure philips made bad tv's as well as any other brand. But if you paid in the high end, you had good tv's.
The "Eye Comfort" branding means the light isn't supposed to have any visible flicker, even when the dimmable types are dimmed down to as low as 5%. This helps reduce eye strain and headaches in those sensitive to flicker.
I love ISO icons....we used to see who could make up the most bizarre/silly thing they could mean. I think in this case, it means 'don't breakdance under suspended pallets of this bulb'. 😆
I think it's funny they use these icons so people that don't speak English can understand, and just make it so that no one can understand them, if it was English anyone could hope the word and get a translation.
Doesn't matter now, but it might have been useful to new viewers to have plugged in the original Dubai after the new one to show the difference in color temp.
HV connection may help efficiency - the LEDs acting as part of the series dropper for the chip supply, making light instead of burning off as heat in the chip
If the chip has a fet it probably runs about a 20v supply, powering it through the leds makes the chip drop less voltage, with the advantage that the current it takes goes through the leds producing light instead of just heat in the chip, so I'd agree its done for efficiency.
That non-standard HV connection adds the chip's supply current to the LED current, producing about 8 more lumens of output for the same power input and manufacturing cost. The drawback is that it won't work on lower mains voltages. In this case the designers clearly considered 240V-only operation acceptable, then optimized the efficiency on that basis. The datasheet starts with worldwide compatibility in mind (100V-240V mains) and doesn't give advice on how to maximize efficiency (since it's already "good enough").
I had a feeling Philips would pull out the swanky extra efficient bulbs after the EU updated their energy efficiency labelling that rendered all the old A+++ rated products as now C or D rated.
@@AAAyyyGGG Yeah, the old B rating went down to an F/G, the old A rating became E, A+ became D, A++ became C, and the new A/B ratings were reserved for future made high efficiency bulbs - like the one in this video (got a new A).
@@AAAyyyGGG Pretty much everything has been updated. Shopping for a fridge recently was quite a shock when I looked and everything of a reasonable price was between an F and E. A lot of shops seem to be showing both rating standards. I don't really get why A/B is generally for better than what's on the market currently, it seems confusing more than anything
@@legatelaurie I'd say it is to leave room for future efficiency improvements. I'd rather have in 20 years a rating scale that (in practice) goes from F to A instead of going from C to A+++. Remember, bureaucracy takes time, better to leave room for future improvements than to have to update the standard again in 20 years.
@@UnlimitedRun I suppose I'm looking at it from a different perspective. Imo, these ratings are a guide for customers, and if there aren't any A rated products on the market I think that's a failure. I'd prefer a system that was updated every 5 years (which I don't believe would create a tremendous amount of cost if each update was phased in) than this tbh.
Symbol indicates do not use in motion sensor lamps - I’m guessing that the leakage current that typically powers the detection circuit (via a more traditional lamp filament) either doesn’t work with the internal power supply, or the leakage is such that the lamp doesn’t turn fully off - and in doing so eventually causes the buck regulator to fail.
210lm/W is really impressive. I got some old lamp with 160lm/W and i remember that back then it was the most expensive light in whole shop, paid like 10$ for it. Im still amazed how good that thing performs, my bathroom is really bright and its not even hot to touch, just slightly warm. After using all those cheap hot lamps i didnt know it was even possible.
200 or so seems to be about the average I'd see in commercial led lighting I'd come across but AFAIK Cree has been putting out 250+ for several years at least. Most of my flashlights use leds which are about 250 lumen per watt at least. These are larger die power leds but still.. in a low voltage design like that it still takes about 10W to produce a little over 1000 lumens with the Crees. Some of these numbers get confusing.
@@Magneticitist 242.5lm/W is the hard luminous efficacy limit for any true white light source. Going higher than that requires cutting out bits of the spectrum to which human eyes are insensitive, with the absolute limit for any light source being 683.002lm/W at the 21.85µin/555µm green to which the human eye is most sensitive.
Finally an E27 lamp that is rated for use in enclosed fixtures! Nice. I bet they engineered this specifically to reach the "A" classification in the re-scaled EU efficiency rating (most good lamps are rated "D" right now). Prior to September last year, this lamp would've just been another A++ along with 85% of the market.
Given that the new "A" energy efficiency category starts from 210 lm/W and these lamps achieve 210 point something lm/W, definitely engineered to be part of the top category. I don't blame them for that, but would still like to see a redundant voltage converter inside like the the Dubai lamps. Otherwise that will be the part that fails first … and not after 50 years. Much earlier.
Ah, so not quite the “Dubai” lamp, but very close to it. I recall the original “Dubai” as being more cool white as it was more appropriate for the ambiance. So it’s a little warmer and greener, so a more receptive light. I think the circuit design is quite neat. If these last as long as they claim then it is cheaper in the long run. I’m guessing the symbol on the box means it’s not suitable for P.I.R use in passageways.
I searched the internet for an inordinate amount of time. Phillips has a web site for the symbols it uses for various medical equipment. But the symbol is not found there. Probably because it's only for medical equipment. But your explanation is the best I've read. But there begs some question about its use - is that it's not suitable for lighting the area covered by IR detectors? Will it mess with IR detector functionality? Or maybe even ruin one after long exposure? I think our friend Clive might have to investigate.
have you seen technology connections latest video on light bulb obsolescence? Does his narrative fit with your experience? Does the light bulb give of a bright light or a dimm one, does it actually run on nominal power?
We're here to look at watts consumption not durability. A 500 watt lightbulb isn't as impressive as a 5 watt lughtbulb that puts out the same light as a 500watt ancient bulb
1:50 I think they are saying not to use it in motion sensor applications probably because it will be constantly turned on and off which might cause the circuitry to fail sooner.
If it is that it's more likely to be to avoid issues with older PIRs that have a snubber network across the relay contacts. It would cause the lamp to pulse when off.
I enjoy the colour temperature decision they made. I have a set of tunable LED bulbs, and I settled on a similar sort of tweaked soft white. There's a point where the clarity of the daylight range kicks in, but without the harshness and I guess it's roughly 3000K!
3000K is common for bathroom lights here in Norway, and I've also gone for 3000K and 90+ CRI for our kitchen lighting. Other rooms are still predominantly 2700K (typical incandescent bulb). Daylight is around 6500K IIRC.
Good to see that they are using a lower colour temperature than the Dubai ones. The cold and very cold white of the Dubai lamps limited my use of them in the UK. Price isn't extreme as I'm pretty sure they are paying extra for the high efficiency LEDs (selecting the highest output binned ones). 210 lumens/watt isn't to be sniffed at especially when you consider the Stokes shift of the phosphor to give the 3000K colour temperature.
But a CRI of 80? That's ancient and far from eye comfort for me. It's like looking at colours under 1970s "warm" fluorescent lamps, when ladies in makeup looked like zombies.
@@68MalKontent Halophosphate warm white fluorescent tubes had a CRI of 52. Halophosphate cool white had a CRI of 62. Modern rare earth tricolor phosphor fluorescent lamps all have a CRI of at least 80.
@@gregorymalchuk272 On the other hand, there have for years been fluorescent tubes for printing/graphic industry with Ra > 97. In a lamp that expensive I'd expect a better result than 80, which is less than cheap fluorescent tubes of the 1990s. Not sure what good are the exampes of poorer CRI - sodium lamps used as street lighting years ago had an even worse index, because the light was practically monochromatic. But that's not comparable to a domestic light in the 3rd decade of XXI century, especially when we are talking about eye comfort 🙂
These just arrived here in australia, however unfortunately only available in the clear format not fogged and max 60W equivalent, while I always prefer fogged for better smoother light and at least 75W - 100W equivalent. These bulbs are game changers can’t wait till all the models are released
Yes, finally a video about this lamp! When I first saw these at a local hardware store I had to think about your video regarding the dubai lamp. I was curious and bought two of them, in 3000 and 4000 K, the colour has a green tone to it, but other than that it is a really interesting piece of lighting equipment. If it had an CRI of 90 or higher, it would be a great lamp!
The 3000K is yellowish like an old filament lamp? I'm curious about the spectrum color distribution also, but for that you need some kind of light spectrometer. How many cost you that lamp compared to the regular LED lamp?
It's an efficieny thing, very high CRI leds have a slightly lower luminous output per watt, something to do with the phospores wich convert blue/uv light into visible light. Same goes with colour temperature, 4000k is more efficient than 3000k usually. The most efficient type of led is usually a 4000k 70cri type in most of leds.
I bought both the 2.3W(40W) and the 4W(60W) in 3000K. Boy, they are disappointing. The color rendering is just... horrific. Don't understand how they would ever measure an Ra index/CRI of 80. "Eye-Comfort" (wich is written on the package) and phrases like "eye-pleasing" are just euphemisms for "horrible greenish color". Yes, they are very efficient, but that's the only positive thing about them. You wouldn't want any of those lamps in your living area's of your house.
Some Walmart stores in the US recently started selling some Philips bulbs like these ("60w replacement" standard) with an angled filament design and only 4 rods instead of a longer cylindrical cage design like in the video. Two parallel sets of two rods run in series.They run at 4.5w instead of 4w (and advertise a "40% reduction from standard LEDs" instead of a "60% reduction". They also have a Power Factor of .95 which was pretty surprising, considering other LED lamps.
This lamps are beautiful, the same as old lamps from 1908 (two of them still work in our university). Phillips make a great product, I bought about 15 of them and changed all of my lamps to several types of these Phillips lamps. Also they don't have PWM at all (checked by Radex lupin).
Hi Clive, these lamps are now available in other countries such as Romania, but they are quite expensive. For example the 5.2W equivalent to 75W costs around 16.21 euros as of today. The 2.3W costs around 8.37 euros and the 4W one costs around 10.41 euros. They sale two versions of this, 3000K and 4000K color temperature. I might get one just to see the light colour temperature. :)
I couldn't resist the temptation and I've changed all my light bulbs at home with these. 😁They we're expensive, but I hope they will last a long time. I actually got used to the color temperature and I like it even more than "traditional" LEDs. I like them a lot, they don't flicker actually the 3000K version is really nice to create a cozy atmosphere. I also wanted to try the new Osram ultra efficient bulbs, but I don't like them that much as these one. The greenish tinge is much more visible and I noticed they also have less filaments than these one from Philips.
these lamps are now available here in north america more expensive compared to other led lamps where long life is important but dimming is not a concern these lamps maybe a good choice i have not tried these lamps it will be interesting to see how these lamps perform in the long term
"The 3000K white has a slight nudge in the green area of the spectrum". Understatement of the year there. Mine lasted less than a minute before my wife ordered med to buy a different one because the light was disgusting.
@@bigclivedotcom In real life what the eye needs is infrared (and deep red) to regenerate mitochondria of the retina. But by definition any "energy efficient" lightbulb works by omitting IR, which is harmful to the eyes and makes the room feel colder (causing people to crank up the radiator by 1 degree and so waste much more energy). Hence I use solely true incandescent lamps for room illumination in all mains operated luminaires.
I bought a load of the IKEA "V8" (filament shape and amount) ones, with a Lumen per Watt rating of 160, so not 220 like this one, and I think they are quite good. Even emailed you about them. When even better cheap ones comes out, I will of course buy those, never really getting near the 50.000 hours 🙂
It’s going to be worth changing the 11W PL fluorescent tubes in the outside lights for these, now they’re only 4W… and don’t worry they’re bone dry inside! They stay on all night too so the hours rack up.
They did it. Great move, results in free marketing. The 4 W is 11€ in the hardware shop. It says 500.000 switch cycles on the data sheet. There is no green peak in the curve. Just blue an orange. Ra is 80
Is there not some kind of problem with LED lamps not putting out the right kind of light for insects , causing grasshopper mating to fail (or something like that)
I have alot of outdoor lights. The appropriate brightness is roughly 20w inconvenient. I replaced them all with 40w equivalent LED bulbs and out them on a cheap smart dimmer that now tracks sun up/down. I run them at half power for most of the night and 20% when I'm going to bed. The payback over even useing CFL lights was under a year. Not considering all the times it's just rainy or under snow and a photo eye would turn on. They are also now intigrated to use my cameras as motion sensors so when motion is detected everything goes to 100% and my yard becomes brightly illuminated.
@@htiekmahned8859 damned right! I can't tell you how many times I've fallen asleep watching something random to sort of wake up to Clive talking about something or other. Usually end up awake listening afterwards and dozing right back into lala land
Hopefully a lot of other LED light bulbs go along this route - that energy efficiency rating of A is the new A, and not the old A that people have been used to (the latter being whereby CFLs were A or B, LEDs were A+ or A, and the best of the LEDs got A++).
I had a set a 3 led 50,000 Hour life lamps from B&Q. One lasted about 20 minutes , the other 2 are still working well now after about 4 years or so. B&Q did replace the dud one when I returned it the day after I purchased it.
It means it's not for recessed lighting. They get really hot and can cause fires, it's actually led to changes in firecode where even recessed lights have to be encased in x type drywall
Thank´s for showing us the insides! I got the exact same a while back and the first thing I noticed was the price. 10€ in my case whereas a 100 W cheapo is only 1.5€ at OBI. Even though it only gets to 36C, I still wonder if it actually lasts longer. I wonder why they don´t make a 100W "green" yet. Mostly, if you have old incandecent fixtures that were only ment for one 100W bulb, a 60W one does not have a great deal of light. That´s something that pisses me of that you need fixtures that fit a lot of bulbs to get a decent brightness. A Y-adaptor sometimes helps too :)
My Philips & Osram CFLs are still going strong, so it will be at least a year or 2 before I need to buy any LED bulbs. Interesting video on the new lamps.
At 13:40 the very high value 2.2 Megohm (x2) resistors are discussed. Given that you have an L-C circuit there that can “ring” (resonate), and diodes can only conduct in one direction, I think those resistors are there for snubbing / dampening. But there might be other opinions on that …
Personally, if this light design was available in an R9080(90CRI minimum, 80R9 minimum), I'd just throw money at it honestly. Say, I don't know if I'm mistaking something, but the glass on the bulb seems to have an AR coating of some sort. This probably increases the optical efficiency of the light nicely.
I usually doesn't watch videos longer than 8 or 10 minutes expect when I'm eating; I don't know how you did it, but you did it again; 17 and half minutes has passed like if where just 3 minutes. Congratulations!
Assuming it’s got decent color quality I’d be tempted to try and get some of these in the US. I should be able to drag them along with me for most of my life
I have a few of them, they are very efficient BUT the CRI is just 80% and the color has a terible green tint which is noticeable on white walls. I ended using a newly developped Solhetta filament IKEA bulbs - the are just a bit less efficient (2.9W instead of 2.3W for the 470 lumen variant) but it has CRI 90, no green tint and is 50% cheaper.
Regarding colour rendition of early flourescent tubes, I remember having fish & chips in Cowes, Isle of Wight, in the early '50s. They looked green in the flourescent light.
I bought some 50W driverless COBs to put in my torchier to replace a 300W tungsten halogen bulb, they have that same 3000K green/yellow hue. It's a bit jarring if you're used to 2700K bulbs as 300k doesn't seem like much but it's a massively different phosphor setup and light quality.
Back in the days of incandescent exit lights, some times we would use 220 volt lamps for long life or we also wired the 2 -120v lamps in series. Also some of them were candelabra bulbs with a diode for longer life.
Candelabra bulbs lovely made without an internal fuse so BOOM and shattered glass everywhere, people couldn't understand they weren't SES or MES just somewhere in between an E12 not a E14
Yes, seeing as the controller is designed for universal voltage, lowering power dissipation both improves efficiency, and also makes the tiny chip last longer as well.
Exactly what I thought. The datasheet probably has an electrical specification somewhere for what the HV range is. This might specify 100V to 350V to cover all areas in the world, but the schematic might be for 90 ~ 110V regions (US and Japan).
@@iamjadedhobo Yes they have limits for the boost voltage for different regions, but likely only show the one, unless you ask them for the full datasheet, likely only on a NDA agreement.
@@iamjadedhobo That's what I'm thinking. The way it's designed it would get you North America, Mexico, Central America, parts of South America, Japan, The Caribbean, and Taiwan.
Products with exactly the same packaging and lamps are also sold in China, but the Chinese version is only 200LM per watt (4W bulbs provide 800LM). I don’t know if it is because of the difference in voltage or the difference in measurement methods. But these light bulbs are very cheap in China, only selling for 30RMB, which is equivalent to US$4.20.
This lamp is not cost-effective in China. Although it saves power, it has an obvious color cast, the light is not smooth enough, the CRI is only 80, and the spectrum is not as good as that of sunlike LED lamps in the price range.
That weird symbol is some arcane glyph depicting the ritual needed to be conducted to create light. They don't want people to create their own light via magic, which is why they don't allow it. (I see the comments mention it's actually for no motion sensor application.)
I really don't like the greenish tint they give off. Philips could have done a better job if they'd wanted. R9 is negative 10, meaning that things that should appear red seem more pale and dimmer than with regular led or incandescent light bulbs. You can find that information and a picture/curve of the light spectrum in the EU - Product data sheet.
Philips really need to up their game with dimmable, high CRI lamps. They do make some, especially the "dim to warm" or whatever the branding calls it now. But they are not as ubiquitous as they should be! i.e. they are usually sold out at Toolstation / Screwfix, and they aren't available in all the formats you might hope (GU10 / bayonet / screw / golf ball / candle etc...) Also CRI is never advertised, which is a shame.
Commenting on LED " colour " , some latest microwave ovens use a ( more robust ) twin " filament " LED lamp , a direct replacement for the tungsten types ( which always fail ! ) .. when powered outside the oven , they give a trendy golden yellow light ( almost similar to LOW pressure sodium street lamps , remember them ? ) .. I am guessing this makes your rotating pie look more appetising ( ? ) .. very peculiar when used as a room light ! ... QED ...
I've got a case of those rough service long life bulbs. They're nameplated 5000 hours, and indeed don't put out nearly as much usable light for the 60w as one of the myriad "normal" bulbs I've got clattering around. My coworker (before they had LEDs and CFLs) deliberately bought a 240v bulb to put in a 120v socket to just leave on all the time. It's still there and probably still running. These days I'd use one of the LED lamps you've featured on this channel with the 0.5w hack, for example. Might do that for the light over my front door in the living room, actually...
I love the videos Clive, your knowledge is immense on things electronic, but your bravado about said knowledge is small and that combination draws me to watch your videos. That along with the resonate and interesting voice/accent and the way tomfoolery just bubbles from your very soul makes me cherish new videos all the more.
Wow, I did not expect this. Phillips defied the "lightbulb psuedo-cartel 2.0", and actually released the high efficiency long life Dubai lamp (or close enough) to everyone else. That...is actually praiseworthy. Genuine thanks, Phillips. (Now let's hope they can fine tune CRI and "less tinted green" soft white for future generations of the bulb)
Maybe they're aiming for the short-term profits with the £11 price? But yes, it's a real break from tradition to actually sell something that'll last, can't possibly hope that things have substantially changed though.
Looks like Philips is coming out with 75W & 100W-equivalent versions of this, as well as frosted and E14 candelabra versions. Right now, these only seems to be actually available from a single retailer located in Slovakia, but all of Philips's EU websites seem to list them.
They are now available in the US. I was able to order online through Walmart of all places. The bulbs are amazingly efficient, but the color of light is not great in a home (color has a enough green to look odd in a residence).. I prefer the color of the Philips 2700k Warm Glow on a dimmer, but use 8.5w rather than the 4.5w of the Ultra Efficient. Ideally, I'd like a dimmable version, 2700k, warm glow, and would give up some efficiency as needed to get better color and longer life.
As several have pointed out, the symbole means that its not suiteble for motion detection fixtures (many on/offs) like drive way lights. The IP rating is not unusual, few lamps have any significant IP ratings since they are usually not "naked" but inside an IP rated fixture. However, as stated, the way they have implemented the circuitry, it is not suitable for frequent "on/off", hence the symbole...
210 lumens/watt is quite something. None of the screw-in bulbs here on the shelves at typical U.S. stores come anywhere close to that. They're usually around 80-110 lumens/watt.
as alway your a very smart man about electronics and know way more than i learned 37 years ago. its cool to listen how into it and how much you really understand circuitry and schematics .
I'd buy that in a heartbeat! My father brought a PHILIPS compact fluorescent around 1980 maybe, first to market anyway. Big ugly heavy glass thing! My mother still has it three house's later, don't know how many hours it's run but it was always fitted in passageways and porches for saving electricity, make you laugh now but the dam thing still works!
it is certainly a Philips SL prismatic, compact fluorescent lamps with magnetic ballast, no electronics in these lamps which meant that they lasted forever.
I have installed miniature fairylights on my tiny xmas tree and undervolted them with a potentiometer, so they can run about a week on 2 AA NiMH cells. Its tiny SMD LEDs also shimmer slightly greenish, particularly when undervolted too much.
That is such a B.S. PR response. I am very sure they also see the green as a flaw, there is no way this was deemed preferable. I would guess it was a trade off in order to achieve the new A rating at all costs, now they pretend it's a good thing (until they finally fix it hopefully someday)
F .. L .. A .. S .. H stopper at End Of Life? Regarding taking the H.V. from the end of the LED string rather than the power rail, I suspect that this lamp won't do the flick, flick, flick thing when the lamp reaches the end of life as there will no longer be any power to build up the voltage until any faulty leds start conducting. Clever! I do so hate the end of life intermittent flash of many LED lamps
I've replaced all my bulbs with these ones, the 7.3W variant (from standard philips 13W LED lamps). I'm not a huge fan of the green tint, seems kinda annoying in the beginning, hopefully I get used to it; it is a lot easier on the eyes though. I like the fact that they are not getting hot as the standard ones. But they are quite expensive...
@@castor652 yeah, kind of:)) it doesn't bother me anymore. Would I pay that much money to change all of them knowing this beforehand?! probably not:)) I'm positive there will be a revised version that addresses this issue in the future.
When I look outside my window I see the Philips shaver factory in Drachten The Netherlands. It reminds me everyday that not all things are manufactured in China🙂. Before Covid the factory would open it's doors to the public once every 2 years and show the innovations. Hope this will come back.
By my calculations, one of those bulbs would save about £1 per year per daily hour compared to the more usual ones at the same output at current UK electricity rates. So if a bulb was used on average 4 hours per day, that's about £4 a year and any extra cost would pay back in a year or two. However, if it's only turned on occasionally, then it's going to take decades. The lesson here is to put the most efficient bulbs into the fittings which are used most if you want to optimise your saving and expenditure. Note, I've not considered any savings from the bulbs lasting longer, but that might not be so important for those which aren't used a lot anyway.
@Banter Maestro2 Helium-oxygen is the preferred filling in these. Although Helium will leak through certain glass types used in other lamps, the rate of diffusion through the soda-lime-silicate (Philips PH241 glass) and the strontium-barium-silicate (Philips PH360 glass) used for these lamps is exceptionally low. The most critical area is the glass-to-metal seals that carry the electrical current into the bulb. These are made from a borated copper sheath brazed to a 42% nickel-iron core to match the thermal expansion rate of the glass, and helium can diffuse along microcracks in the brazed interface. Even so, when bearing in mind the leak rate along the wires plus the rate of diffusion through the 0.6mm thick glass envelpe, I estimate that the half-life of the helium filling is about 75 years. This is well in excess of the rated life.
Using the part off datasheet is sometimes hazardous but it's amazing how much cooperation you can get from a chip manufacturer when you sign up for a few million parts per year:-)
Motion sensing lights that have an fully electronic sensor might not operate with the low power draw of LED lights unless they are designed to do so. I feel Philips are covering their butts as they do not know if the sensor fitting you have will function correctly with their bulbs. I have been caught out in the past myself, I wish such a symbol existed a few years ago.
Hey Clive, I would love to see a a project that steps up 5v to a suitably high voltage to run these efficient lamps off DC in a standard socket, I would love to convert my desk lamp to USB that way so it can be run off a powerbank
You can get 12V E27 (screw) bulbs for use on busses, caravans and houseboats. It's easy to step 5V up to 12V using a boost or buck-boost converter (cheap on amazon). I can't guarantee that a usb charger will be able to put out enough power for a bulb rated to more than a couple of watts. You might be better of running the converter directly from some 18650s or an rc hobbyist lipo pack.
@@charleslambert3368 with 12V DC you could even use a USB PD powerbank, no dedicated boost converter needed that way. All you'd need is a little 12V trigger board and a USB-C cable (both ends, though some supplies can do it on USB-A too). You can get those trigger boards very cheaply in the usual places (Ebay, Aliexpress etc).
17:05 I think even the late fluorescent tubes were worse then LEDs... I had a cap that looked dark green in CFL light, when it was brown in sunlight. In LED light it was a bit reddish brown.
An interesting bulb. I'll happily pay £12 - £15 for a bulb that doesn't need replacing every 18 months. The symbol on the back is likely to do with outdoor/motion detection lights... But when I saw it my first thought was No Saturday Night Fever!
That symbol says, in plain English "Not suitable for PIR/proximity sensing lamp fixtures" (not for use in automatic lights). My assumption would be that say, outdoor porch lights, being prone to triggering on every cat, dog, kid, camel, goat, kangaroo, blackbird, crow, wicked witch, or postman etc. would turn on and of so many times, and at such frequent intervals, that the bulb would fail long before its projected lifespan. An alternative meaning for that symbol "Do not drop curved screed LCD TVs on passing pedestrians"!
Finally they're bumping up the lumens on these lights... I'm tired of the dim 500-lumen lights most manufacturers try to pass off as "60 watt equivalent." I got used to using 1000+ lumen CFLs and it's been impossible to find a suitable LED replacement. I'll have to get some of these.
Asda do 14w LED's (I have them and under run them using Clive's method with the capacitors). I recently also picked up 22w warm white and 28w cool white LED bulbs from B&Q, although they were in the clearance (they were also enormous! About double the size of a regular bulb).
The "X watt equivalent" thing is mostly BS anyway, the only values that really matter are lumen and wattage. Around here (Germany) the manufacturers seem to have settled in with a few lumen "tiers" that most LED lamps fit into, ~250, ~480 and 800+, the only thing that really varies is how many watts the lamp draws to achieve that brightness.
I've used the IKEA smart bulb. They have a version that's 1000 lumen. Although I would tike the colour "quality" to be better (I don't remember the term).
As heat is the energy that isn't turned into visible light, that lamp produces much less heat per watt it uses compared to "common lamps", and as it produces more light per watt, the heat for the same amount light is even more reduced. Heat is unlikely an issue with those lamps.
@@fishyerik in theory, yes. But it's not the filament that's cooking in my enclosure. It's the board from component hotspots. I'm not sure if driving twice the filament at half the power is going to change anything on the board. Won't stop me from buying a bunch, though.
@@Peffse Driver power, therefore also heat generated is included in that total power draw. There's not much room for heat generation when it produces 840 lm from only 4 W, filament and driver combined. Sure, if it was very poorly designed some component could be prone to overheating anyway, but it's unlikely to be the case. If those also die within a short time, there's probably something else that's wrong.
Oh yeah, the green is definitely a dealbreaker for me. I generally avoid LED flashlights with a positive duv, so no way would I put in constant lighting that was tinted green. Makes everything look sickly, like old crappy fluorescent tubes.
I think the symbol means don’t use it in motion detection security lights.
That could make sense. A snubber network would make it strobe.
Yeah that was my take also
Wanted to post the same yeah. The “icon” looks like a human body walking past a PIR sensor. Only odd thing is the size of the body and sensor
I was thinking not for emergency exit lighting, but your idea sounds more correct.
These sensors are two-wire and three-wire.
Those with two wires are connected in series with the load. Naturally, the lamp resistance is too high and the sensor will not work correctly.
And with those in which the phase is placed in a separate wire and a relay is built in, these lamps will work well.
This lamp has an IP rating of 20, which means it has no protection against dust or moisture. Therefor it's meant for indoor use only, and not in 'security' lights outside your house. That's what the symbol says.
thanks , really helpful
Looks like a PIR detector, so yes.
Doesn't 20 mean resistant to dust but not to water?
@@ianhosier4042 2 is for 12mm particles or fingers. "dust" starts at 5
@@ianhosier4042 IP2X means it's touch resistant (the British Standard, 11mm, index fingers can't get into it).
So no dust resistance. The 0 means completely irresistant to water.
I still have on of Philips’ first generation of LED lamps. A big beast with a big aluminium heat sink and lovely colour. It’s probably been on 12h a day on average for nearly 20 years, and still works fine. Well worth the £35 it cost back then.
not having to replace bulbs but one or twice a lifetime is worth it for sure.
@@tobiwonkanogy2975 Bulbs are 90% heat, so yes.
@@flexairz those statistics were for the old incandescent bulb. not sure what they are now but that's why they last longer , they don't burn out or self destruct when you turn the switch on .
Yeaaah i know in USA The White L-prize well i still have 1 of The big heatsink LED lamp 12 w button The standaard without The yellow remonte phosphor and The "Royal blue" dedicated luxeon power LEDs costs a arm( 60 euro.s ) here in EU now all ledlamps are cheap COB (and The Filament version) SMD s
Installed at load of Sylvania 5W GU10 lamps years ago and they are just starting to fail, replacements are only lasting months rather than years. Should send one to Clive for the autopsy.
I worked for Philips for years . Everything they do is over engineered however their choice of components seemed to be based on what someone had over ordered years ago
I remember what quality they did back in the 1980's when we are talking televisions as an example. Philips always made the best. Stereo audio equipment not so much. They never did any HIFI that was as good as NAD. But televisions and especially CRT tubes, oh boy they knew their stuff. The exact reason why B&O used philips inside their nice designed enclosures. Here in Denmark, we had a saying in the 1980's, that if you bought B&O, you actually bought expensive Philips. The design and that it was produced inside Denmark, were what made it expensive.
@@brostenen mmm, I've had 2 Philips TV's, one in the 80's & one in the late 90's. I got my money back on both of them, they were rubbish. The first one threw a wobbler every time a car drove past the house & the second one made big bangs at random intervals.
@@philb2334 Depends on what you paid for them back then. Sure philips made bad tv's as well as any other brand. But if you paid in the high end, you had good tv's.
@@brostenen in the late 80s I had read that B&O used parts from Hitachi.
@@umitbalioglu4251 Most parts were philips. The tube was. I only know this because I am from Denmark and B&O is Danish.
It would be interesting to view the light spectrum through a diffraction grating to compare the Dubai lamp and the new Philips lamp
The "Eye Comfort" branding means the light isn't supposed to have any visible flicker, even when the dimmable types are dimmed down to as low as 5%. This helps reduce eye strain and headaches in those sensitive to flicker.
I love ISO icons....we used to see who could make up the most bizarre/silly thing they could mean. I think in this case, it means 'don't breakdance under suspended pallets of this bulb'. 😆
I did a reverse image search and the only result was another Philips bulb on Amazon UK. Very interesting.
My guess: not suitable for motion detection lighting.
Don't get caught/ walk in the shadows not the light? This bulb sees all?
I think it's funny they use these icons so people that don't speak English can understand, and just make it so that no one can understand them, if it was English anyone could hope the word and get a translation.
60 watt is efficient? A high end cpu uses 65 watt. This power hungry. How is it efficient?
Doesn't matter now, but it might have been useful to new viewers to have plugged in the original Dubai after the new one to show the difference in color temp.
same
HV connection may help efficiency - the LEDs acting as part of the series dropper for the chip supply, making light instead of burning off as heat in the chip
That was my first thought as well. Clever thought of Signify.
Yeah that's what Clive said
Maybe the chip is optimized for 120V Supply.
@@andreasdill4329 Very clever then the lowest current world wide is 120V. If you put in 120V is the dotted line fully correct. 🤗
Yeah if chip doesn't mind voltage fluctuations and upper switch being whole 200v higher than HV then why tf not
The weird symbol means the bulb is not to be used as a tractor beam in UFOs, or as a disco dancing detector.
I have no idea what you’re talking about in the second half of the video, but you do it in a way that I want to learn and I can’t stop watching
If the chip has a fet it probably runs about a 20v supply, powering it through the leds makes the chip drop less voltage, with the advantage that the current it takes goes through the leds producing light instead of just heat in the chip, so I'd agree its done for efficiency.
That non-standard HV connection adds the chip's supply current to the LED current, producing about 8 more lumens of output for the same power input and manufacturing cost.
The drawback is that it won't work on lower mains voltages. In this case the designers clearly considered 240V-only operation acceptable, then optimized the efficiency on that basis.
The datasheet starts with worldwide compatibility in mind (100V-240V mains) and doesn't give advice on how to maximize efficiency (since it's already "good enough").
I had a feeling Philips would pull out the swanky extra efficient bulbs after the EU updated their energy efficiency labelling that rendered all the old A+++ rated products as now C or D rated.
Oh, that explains LED lamps being F or thereabouts - I wasn't aware that the standard had been updated. Thank you ;-)
@@AAAyyyGGG Yeah, the old B rating went down to an F/G, the old A rating became E, A+ became D, A++ became C, and the new A/B ratings were reserved for future made high efficiency bulbs - like the one in this video (got a new A).
@@AAAyyyGGG Pretty much everything has been updated. Shopping for a fridge recently was quite a shock when I looked and everything of a reasonable price was between an F and E. A lot of shops seem to be showing both rating standards. I don't really get why A/B is generally for better than what's on the market currently, it seems confusing more than anything
@@legatelaurie I'd say it is to leave room for future efficiency improvements. I'd rather have in 20 years a rating scale that (in practice) goes from F to A instead of going from C to A+++.
Remember, bureaucracy takes time, better to leave room for future improvements than to have to update the standard again in 20 years.
@@UnlimitedRun I suppose I'm looking at it from a different perspective. Imo, these ratings are a guide for customers, and if there aren't any A rated products on the market I think that's a failure. I'd prefer a system that was updated every 5 years (which I don't believe would create a tremendous amount of cost if each update was phased in) than this tbh.
I think that symbol means, "Don't walk under heavy refrigerators being weighed unless you use this light to see better". 😂
lol nice 😀
😂😂😂😂
It looks like ‘don’t use in outdoor flood lamps’
@J L We could use him. Perhaps we can finally translate Linear B.
The person looks like a thief sneaking.
Symbol indicates do not use in motion sensor lamps - I’m guessing that the leakage current that typically powers the detection circuit (via a more traditional lamp filament) either doesn’t work with the internal power supply, or the leakage is such that the lamp doesn’t turn fully off - and in doing so eventually causes the buck regulator to fail.
Just use a motion sensor with a neutral connection and a relay if you can.
you just made me understand why certain leds do what you mentioned in my flood light.... thankU!
210lm/W is really impressive. I got some old lamp with 160lm/W and i remember that back then it was the most expensive light in whole shop, paid like 10$ for it. Im still amazed how good that thing performs, my bathroom is really bright and its not even hot to touch, just slightly warm. After using all those cheap hot lamps i didnt know it was even possible.
200 or so seems to be about the average I'd see in commercial led lighting I'd come across but AFAIK Cree has been putting out 250+ for several years at least. Most of my flashlights use leds which are about 250 lumen per watt at least. These are larger die power leds but still.. in a low voltage design like that it still takes about 10W to produce a little over 1000 lumens with the Crees. Some of these numbers get confusing.
@@Magneticitist 242.5lm/W is the hard luminous efficacy limit for any true white light source. Going higher than that requires cutting out bits of the spectrum to which human eyes are insensitive, with the absolute limit for any light source being 683.002lm/W at the 21.85µin/555µm green to which the human eye is most sensitive.
@@randacnam7321 Damn 683 sounds pretty nice, I think I could deal with the green.
@@Magneticitist Would be monochromatic green light so you would have no color perception.
@@randacnam7321 With the amount of light I'd be trying to throw I wouldn't really need to see color
Finally an E27 lamp that is rated for use in enclosed fixtures! Nice.
I bet they engineered this specifically to reach the "A" classification in the re-scaled EU efficiency rating (most good lamps are rated "D" right now). Prior to September last year, this lamp would've just been another A++ along with 85% of the market.
The packaging even involves a symbol Philips had made specifically for lamps that fit the new best category, so I think that's pretty likely.
Given that the new "A" energy efficiency category starts from 210 lm/W and these lamps achieve 210 point something lm/W, definitely engineered to be part of the top category. I don't blame them for that, but would still like to see a redundant voltage converter inside like the the Dubai lamps. Otherwise that will be the part that fails first … and not after 50 years. Much earlier.
@@djazt.8053 50 years is 50 years, if you promise that your product works for 50 years you are effectively giving a 50 year warranty
Ah, so not quite the “Dubai” lamp, but very close to it. I recall the original “Dubai” as being more cool white as it was more appropriate for the ambiance. So it’s a little warmer and greener, so a more receptive light. I think the circuit design is quite neat. If these last as long as they claim then it is cheaper in the long run. I’m guessing the symbol on the box means it’s not suitable for P.I.R use in passageways.
I searched the internet for an inordinate amount of time. Phillips has a web site for the symbols it uses for various medical equipment. But the symbol is not found there. Probably because it's only for medical equipment.
But your explanation is the best I've read. But there begs some question about its use - is that it's not suitable for lighting the area covered by IR detectors? Will it mess with IR detector functionality? Or maybe even ruin one after long exposure? I think our friend Clive might have to investigate.
@@jdlech i was thinking it was because it turns on and off so often and for a short time that it could wear out.
@@jdlech Nice one and a good suggestion. Reading the comments, there are many explanations but really no one knows what the symbol means. 😀👍
I've got a lamp that's been passed down three generations in my family, and it's still running the original bulb from the early 50s.
have you seen technology connections latest video on light bulb obsolescence? Does his narrative fit with your experience?
Does the light bulb give of a bright light or a dimm one, does it actually run on nominal power?
We're here to look at watts consumption not durability. A 500 watt lightbulb isn't as impressive as a 5 watt lughtbulb that puts out the same light as a 500watt ancient bulb
1:50 I think they are saying not to use it in motion sensor applications probably because it will be constantly turned on and off which might cause the circuitry to fail sooner.
The picture looks like a PIR sensor and the person walking is depicting motion.
If it is that it's more likely to be to avoid issues with older PIRs that have a snubber network across the relay contacts. It would cause the lamp to pulse when off.
@@bigclivedotcom Add a capacitor and make it glow. ;-)
I enjoy the colour temperature decision they made. I have a set of tunable LED bulbs, and I settled on a similar sort of tweaked soft white. There's a point where the clarity of the daylight range kicks in, but without the harshness and I guess it's roughly 3000K!
3000K is common for bathroom lights here in Norway, and I've also gone for 3000K and 90+ CRI for our kitchen lighting. Other rooms are still predominantly 2700K (typical incandescent bulb). Daylight is around 6500K IIRC.
Good to see that they are using a lower colour temperature than the Dubai ones. The cold and very cold white of the Dubai lamps limited my use of them in the UK. Price isn't extreme as I'm pretty sure they are paying extra for the high efficiency LEDs (selecting the highest output binned ones). 210 lumens/watt isn't to be sniffed at especially when you consider the Stokes shift of the phosphor to give the 3000K colour temperature.
But a CRI of 80? That's ancient and far from eye comfort for me. It's like looking at colours under 1970s "warm" fluorescent lamps, when ladies in makeup looked like zombies.
@@68MalKontent Halophosphate warm white fluorescent tubes had a CRI of 52. Halophosphate cool white had a CRI of 62. Modern rare earth tricolor phosphor fluorescent lamps all have a CRI of at least 80.
@@gregorymalchuk272 On the other hand, there have for years been fluorescent tubes for printing/graphic industry with Ra > 97.
In a lamp that expensive I'd expect a better result than 80, which is less than cheap fluorescent tubes of the 1990s.
Not sure what good are the exampes of poorer CRI - sodium lamps used as street lighting years ago had an even worse index, because the light was practically monochromatic. But that's not comparable to a domestic light in the 3rd decade of XXI century, especially when we are talking about eye comfort 🙂
You pay a fairly high efficiency penalty for good CRI. It is a compromise for efficiency.
@@68MalKontent never knew this kind of light elite existed
These just arrived here in australia, however unfortunately only available in the clear format not fogged and max 60W equivalent, while I always prefer fogged for better smoother light and at least 75W - 100W equivalent. These bulbs are game changers can’t wait till all the models are released
Yes, finally a video about this lamp! When I first saw these at a local hardware store I had to think about your video regarding the dubai lamp. I was curious and bought two of them, in 3000 and 4000 K, the colour has a green tone to it, but other than that it is a really interesting piece of lighting equipment. If it had an CRI of 90 or higher, it would be a great lamp!
The 3000K is yellowish like an old filament lamp?
I'm curious about the spectrum color distribution also, but for that you need some kind of light spectrometer.
How many cost you that lamp compared to the regular LED lamp?
How is the 4K one? Is it a neutral white as they claim or is it still "yellow / warm"?
It's an efficieny thing, very high CRI leds have a slightly lower luminous output per watt, something to do with the phospores wich convert blue/uv light into visible light. Same goes with colour temperature, 4000k is more efficient than 3000k usually.
The most efficient type of led is usually a 4000k 70cri type in most of leds.
So THAT.S why these LED super efficiënt are CRI low80.S close to 79 orso giving it.S effiency Lm/W😉
I bought both the 2.3W(40W) and the 4W(60W) in 3000K.
Boy, they are disappointing.
The color rendering is just... horrific. Don't understand how they would ever measure an Ra index/CRI of 80.
"Eye-Comfort" (wich is written on the package) and phrases like "eye-pleasing" are just euphemisms for "horrible greenish color".
Yes, they are very efficient, but that's the only positive thing about them.
You wouldn't want any of those lamps in your living area's of your house.
Some Walmart stores in the US recently started selling some Philips bulbs like these ("60w replacement" standard) with an angled filament design and only 4 rods instead of a longer cylindrical cage design like in the video. Two parallel sets of two rods run in series.They run at 4.5w instead of 4w (and advertise a "40% reduction from standard LEDs" instead of a "60% reduction". They also have a Power Factor of .95 which was pretty surprising, considering other LED lamps.
Where can I find more info on this?
But they have a whining sound when all is quiet
This lamps are beautiful, the same as old lamps from 1908 (two of them still work in our university). Phillips make a great product, I bought about 15 of them and changed all of my lamps to several types of these Phillips lamps. Also they don't have PWM at all (checked by Radex lupin).
210 lumin per watt is amazing - Right up there with the best t8 replacements. Thanks for the video Clive - very interesting!
T8?
TO Eight 8 ths of an inch diameter fluorescent tubes, the usual one inch office type.
Hi Clive, these lamps are now available in other countries such as Romania, but they are quite expensive. For example the 5.2W equivalent to 75W costs around 16.21 euros as of today. The 2.3W costs around 8.37 euros and the 4W one costs around 10.41 euros. They sale two versions of this, 3000K and 4000K color temperature.
I might get one just to see the light colour temperature. :)
amazon Germany dimmable 10.4w 100w for 7.10€
5.2w amazon dutch 11.90
Why do we Americans get vomit-inducing daylight rather than nice cool white?
In australia we just rob them from the store
I couldn't resist the temptation and I've changed all my light bulbs at home with these. 😁They we're expensive, but I hope they will last a long time. I actually got used to the color temperature and I like it even more than "traditional" LEDs. I like them a lot, they don't flicker actually the 3000K version is really nice to create a cozy atmosphere. I also wanted to try the new Osram ultra efficient bulbs, but I don't like them that much as these one. The greenish tinge is much more visible and I noticed they also have less filaments than these one from Philips.
these lamps are now available here in north america more expensive compared to other led lamps where long life is important but dimming is not a concern these lamps maybe a good choice i have not tried these lamps it will be interesting to see how these lamps perform in the long term
Shame this isn't available in the US (yet). That would be perfect for the shared stairway outside my apartment where the light is on 24/7/365.
I really wish we'd get these over here too!
@@Okurka. Yes. Scheduled quadrennial check that it's working… 😀
It will get here once it goes through all the EU-like bureaucracy we have that keeps us from having good things.
"The 3000K white has a slight nudge in the green area of the spectrum". Understatement of the year there.
Mine lasted less than a minute before my wife ordered med to buy a different one because the light was disgusting.
I think the concept is that the slight green bias is less tiring to eyes.
@@bigclivedotcom In real life what the eye needs is infrared (and deep red) to regenerate mitochondria of the retina. But by definition any "energy efficient" lightbulb works by omitting IR, which is harmful to the eyes and makes the room feel colder (causing people to crank up the radiator by 1 degree and so waste much more energy). Hence I use solely true incandescent lamps for room illumination in all mains operated luminaires.
@@cyberyogicowindler2448 Thank you for making me laugh hard.
same here
I bought a load of the IKEA "V8" (filament shape and amount) ones, with a Lumen per Watt rating of 160, so not 220 like this one, and I think they are quite good. Even emailed you about them.
When even better cheap ones comes out, I will of course buy those, never really getting near the 50.000 hours 🙂
I've bought a couple of those Ikea 160lm/W lamps, but Ikea don't seem to be making much effort to advertise their unusually high efficiency.
It’s going to be worth changing the 11W PL fluorescent tubes in the outside lights for these, now they’re only 4W… and don’t worry they’re bone dry inside! They stay on all night too so the hours rack up.
They did it. Great move, results in free marketing.
The 4 W is 11€ in the hardware shop. It says 500.000 switch cycles on the data sheet.
There is no green peak in the curve. Just blue an orange. Ra is 80
where do you find datasheet for light bulbs like this?
@@redoktopus3047 lighting philips
Did you actually buy it and try it? The OSRAM's >200lm/w lamps also have no green peak in the curve but they make very green light.
That's a bummer about the low CRI. That is far more important than people realize, unless it's just used outside or the like.
Is there not some kind of problem with LED lamps not putting out the right kind of light for insects , causing grasshopper mating to fail (or something like that)
@@highpath4776 I do wonder how they procreated before LED lamps were a thing, though? :-)
@@benbaselet2026 Give Me the Moonlight, Give Me The Girl, (damn fell down the stairs)
@@benbaselet2026 Or before man-made lighting? Seems the world is filling with dolts who can't think in enough depth to see the obvious...
CRItical, even 🙂
the famous fire station light bulb is being run WAY below the intended voltage to ensure it never heats up enough to burn out.
And it is a carbon filament bulb.
I have alot of outdoor lights. The appropriate brightness is roughly 20w inconvenient.
I replaced them all with 40w equivalent LED bulbs and out them on a cheap smart dimmer that now tracks sun up/down. I run them at half power for most of the night and 20% when I'm going to bed. The payback over even useing CFL lights was under a year. Not considering all the times it's just rainy or under snow and a photo eye would turn on. They are also now intigrated to use my cameras as motion sensors so when motion is detected everything goes to 100% and my yard becomes brightly illuminated.
Clive, please, please keep up the good work man.
You’ve been my go to for the past 6 years when I need tech content I can relax to.
Cheers again
Chris
He's the Bob Ross of electronics.
@@htiekmahned8859 damned right! I can't tell you how many times I've fallen asleep watching something random to sort of wake up to Clive talking about something or other. Usually end up awake listening afterwards and dozing right back into lala land
Hopefully a lot of other LED light bulbs go along this route - that energy efficiency rating of A is the new A, and not the old A that people have been used to (the latter being whereby CFLs were A or B, LEDs were A+ or A, and the best of the LEDs got A++).
Am I going to watch a man fiddle around with a light bulb for 17 minutes? Yes, yes I am!
you know that's exactly why you're here. Anyone calls you an anorak just say you're fascinated with the evolution of; sorted.
I had a set a 3 led 50,000 Hour life lamps from B&Q. One lasted about 20 minutes , the other 2 are still working well now after about 4 years or so. B&Q did replace the dud one when I returned it the day after I purchased it.
It means it's not for recessed lighting. They get really hot and can cause fires, it's actually led to changes in firecode where even recessed lights have to be encased in x type drywall
I think that simble means you cant use them as outside lights in security nor the ones which light up outside doorways.
Thank´s for showing us the insides! I got the exact same a while back and the first thing I noticed was the price. 10€ in my case whereas a 100 W cheapo is only 1.5€ at OBI. Even though it only gets to 36C, I still wonder if it actually lasts longer. I wonder why they don´t make a 100W "green" yet. Mostly, if you have old incandecent fixtures that were only ment for one 100W bulb, a 60W one does not have a great deal of light. That´s something that pisses me of that you need fixtures that fit a lot of bulbs to get a decent brightness. A Y-adaptor sometimes helps too :)
hopefully we're gonna see more videos about this new style of lamp
My Philips & Osram CFLs are still going strong, so it will be at least a year or 2 before I need to buy any LED bulbs. Interesting video on the new lamps.
At 13:40 the very high value 2.2 Megohm (x2) resistors are discussed. Given that you have an L-C circuit there that can “ring” (resonate), and diodes can only conduct in one direction, I think those resistors are there for snubbing / dampening.
But there might be other opinions on that …
Excellent and thank you from a retired Electrical Engineer/Failure Analyst.
Personally, if this light design was available in an R9080(90CRI minimum, 80R9 minimum), I'd just throw money at it honestly.
Say, I don't know if I'm mistaking something, but the glass on the bulb seems to have an AR coating of some sort.
This probably increases the optical efficiency of the light nicely.
I usually doesn't watch videos longer than 8 or 10 minutes expect when I'm eating; I don't know how you did it, but you did it again; 17 and half minutes has passed like if where just 3 minutes. Congratulations!
Assuming it’s got decent color quality I’d be tempted to try and get some of these in the US. I should be able to drag them along with me for most of my life
Just make sure you buy 110v ones not the UK ones at 240v
@@handlesarefeckinstupid I mean I could use 240V I’d just need to run circuits for that
I have a few of them, they are very efficient BUT the CRI is just 80% and the color has a terible green tint which is noticeable on white walls. I ended using a newly developped Solhetta filament IKEA bulbs - the are just a bit less efficient (2.9W instead of 2.3W for the 470 lumen variant) but it has CRI 90, no green tint and is 50% cheaper.
Regarding colour rendition of early flourescent tubes, I remember having fish & chips in Cowes, Isle of Wight, in the early '50s. They looked green in the flourescent light.
Same with bread. I always used bread as first indicator for CRI.
Yup, a CRI of 80 is really shitty in 2022.
I bought some 50W driverless COBs to put in my torchier to replace a 300W tungsten halogen bulb, they have that same 3000K green/yellow hue. It's a bit jarring if you're used to 2700K bulbs as 300k doesn't seem like much but it's a massively different phosphor setup and light quality.
Back in the days of incandescent exit lights, some times we would use 220 volt lamps for long life or we also wired the 2 -120v lamps in series. Also some of them were candelabra bulbs with a diode for longer life.
Candelabra bulbs lovely made without an internal fuse so BOOM and shattered glass everywhere, people couldn't understand they weren't SES or MES just somewhere in between an E12 not a E14
I have a Philips monitor I use 10 hours a day every day for the past 4 years(14000hrs) awesome company.
Could the circuit change be to allow for 230V supplies compared to 110V? Given the drop is to 125V seems a possible change for differing markets?
Yes, seeing as the controller is designed for universal voltage, lowering power dissipation both improves efficiency, and also makes the tiny chip last longer as well.
Also if the chip should fail short, the lamp will keep working (ish). No short circuit path exists.
Exactly what I thought. The datasheet probably has an electrical specification somewhere for what the HV range is. This might specify 100V to 350V to cover all areas in the world, but the schematic might be for 90 ~ 110V regions (US and Japan).
@@iamjadedhobo Yes they have limits for the boost voltage for different regions, but likely only show the one, unless you ask them for the full datasheet, likely only on a NDA agreement.
@@iamjadedhobo That's what I'm thinking. The way it's designed it would get you North America, Mexico, Central America, parts of South America, Japan, The Caribbean, and Taiwan.
Products with exactly the same packaging and lamps are also sold in China, but the Chinese version is only 200LM per watt (4W bulbs provide 800LM). I don’t know if it is because of the difference in voltage or the difference in measurement methods.
But these light bulbs are very cheap in China, only selling for 30RMB, which is equivalent to US$4.20.
This lamp is not cost-effective in China. Although it saves power, it has an obvious color cast, the light is not smooth enough, the CRI is only 80, and the spectrum is not as good as that of sunlike LED lamps in the price range.
That weird symbol is some arcane glyph depicting the ritual needed to be conducted to create light. They don't want people to create their own light via magic, which is why they don't allow it.
(I see the comments mention it's actually for no motion sensor application.)
Thank you for your time and energy! Michael, central Poland.
I really don't like the greenish tint they give off. Philips could have done a better job if they'd wanted. R9 is negative 10, meaning that things that should appear red seem more pale and dimmer than with regular led or incandescent light bulbs. You can find that information and a picture/curve of the light spectrum in the EU - Product data sheet.
I've binned so many new LED bulbs because of the green.
Philips really need to up their game with dimmable, high CRI lamps. They do make some, especially the "dim to warm" or whatever the branding calls it now. But they are not as ubiquitous as they should be! i.e. they are usually sold out at Toolstation / Screwfix, and they aren't available in all the formats you might hope (GU10 / bayonet / screw / golf ball / candle etc...) Also CRI is never advertised, which is a shame.
Commenting on LED " colour " , some latest microwave ovens use a ( more robust ) twin " filament " LED lamp , a direct replacement for the tungsten types ( which always fail ! ) .. when powered outside the oven , they give a trendy golden yellow light ( almost similar to LOW pressure sodium street lamps , remember them ? ) .. I am guessing this makes your rotating pie look more appetising ( ? ) .. very peculiar when used as a room light ! ... QED ...
I've got a case of those rough service long life bulbs.
They're nameplated 5000 hours, and indeed don't put out nearly as much usable light for the 60w as one of the myriad "normal" bulbs I've got clattering around.
My coworker (before they had LEDs and CFLs) deliberately bought a 240v bulb to put in a 120v socket to just leave on all the time. It's still there and probably still running.
These days I'd use one of the LED lamps you've featured on this channel with the 0.5w hack, for example. Might do that for the light over my front door in the living room, actually...
Last symbol is "do not use on sensor" so not for turning on and off often.
I love the videos Clive, your knowledge is immense on things electronic, but your bravado about said knowledge is small and that combination draws me to watch your videos. That along with the resonate and interesting voice/accent and the way tomfoolery just bubbles from your very soul makes me cherish new videos all the more.
Wow, I did not expect this.
Phillips defied the "lightbulb psuedo-cartel 2.0", and actually released the high efficiency long life Dubai lamp (or close enough) to everyone else.
That...is actually praiseworthy. Genuine thanks, Phillips.
(Now let's hope they can fine tune CRI and "less tinted green" soft white for future generations of the bulb)
Maybe they're aiming for the short-term profits with the £11 price? But yes, it's a real break from tradition to actually sell something that'll last, can't possibly hope that things have substantially changed though.
Looks like Philips is coming out with 75W & 100W-equivalent versions of this, as well as frosted and E14 candelabra versions. Right now, these only seems to be actually available from a single retailer located in Slovakia, but all of Philips's EU websites seem to list them.
They need to get this in the US already.
They are now available in the US. I was able to order online through Walmart of all places. The bulbs are amazingly efficient, but the color of light is not great in a home (color has a enough green to look odd in a residence).. I prefer the color of the Philips 2700k Warm Glow on a dimmer, but use 8.5w rather than the 4.5w of the Ultra Efficient. Ideally, I'd like a dimmable version, 2700k, warm glow, and would give up some efficiency as needed to get better color and longer life.
As several have pointed out, the symbole means that its not suiteble for motion detection fixtures (many on/offs) like drive way lights. The IP rating is not unusual, few lamps have any significant IP ratings since they are usually not "naked" but inside an IP rated fixture. However, as stated, the way they have implemented the circuitry, it is not suitable for frequent "on/off", hence the symbole...
Indeed most wall sockets are IP20 because they have holes in the front that let metal pins touch live circuits.
210 lumens/watt is quite something. None of the screw-in bulbs here on the shelves at typical U.S. stores come anywhere close to that. They're usually around 80-110 lumens/watt.
that is quite impressive only chip being better would be an under amped LM301B from samsung
Remember we lose a lot of efficiency by stepping down to 110v.
They've change the lamps. They now only have 4 filaments. Also, only 40% less energy not 60%
I had this lamp on for a while it is lukewarm tot The touch so it could be used in closed luminaires/ fixtures 😊😊
as alway your a very smart man about electronics and know way more than i learned 37 years ago. its cool to listen how into it and how much you really understand circuitry and schematics .
I'd buy that in a heartbeat!
My father brought a PHILIPS compact fluorescent around 1980 maybe, first to market anyway.
Big ugly heavy glass thing!
My mother still has it three house's later, don't know how many hours it's run but it was always fitted in passageways and porches for saving electricity, make you laugh now but the dam thing still works!
it is certainly a Philips SL prismatic, compact fluorescent lamps with magnetic ballast, no electronics in these lamps which meant that they lasted forever.
I just bought one of these and it had a green tint, i emailed philips and they said it is something to do with being easier on the eye as you say.
I have installed miniature fairylights on my tiny xmas tree and undervolted them with a potentiometer, so they can run about a week on 2 AA NiMH cells. Its tiny SMD LEDs also shimmer slightly greenish, particularly when undervolted too much.
That is such a B.S. PR response. I am very sure they also see the green as a flaw, there is no way this was deemed preferable. I would guess it was a trade off in order to achieve the new A rating at all costs, now they pretend it's a good thing (until they finally fix it hopefully someday)
F .. L .. A .. S .. H stopper at End Of Life?
Regarding taking the H.V. from the end of the LED string rather than the power rail, I suspect that this lamp won't do the flick, flick, flick thing when the lamp reaches the end of life as there will no longer be any power to build up the voltage until any faulty leds start conducting.
Clever! I do so hate the end of life intermittent flash of many LED lamps
These types of lamps are very interesting
Clive, thanks for another great video
After reading the comments, next video should see this connected to a PIR sensor module 👍
Looks like the symbol is telling the consumer "Not suitable for motion light sets". Great video!
I've replaced all my bulbs with these ones, the 7.3W variant (from standard philips 13W LED lamps). I'm not a huge fan of the green tint, seems kinda annoying in the beginning, hopefully I get used to it; it is a lot easier on the eyes though. I like the fact that they are not getting hot as the standard ones. But they are quite expensive...
Did you get used to the green tint?
@@castor652 yeah, kind of:)) it doesn't bother me anymore. Would I pay that much money to change all of them knowing this beforehand?! probably not:)) I'm positive there will be a revised version that addresses this issue in the future.
@@adi4motion2 Thanks
When I look outside my window I see the Philips shaver factory in Drachten The Netherlands. It reminds me everyday that not all things are manufactured in China🙂. Before Covid the factory would open it's doors to the public once every 2 years and show the innovations. Hope this will come back.
Argh, I wish we could get these in the USA! We're so behind.
Having seen the original video on the 'Dubai' lamp, Philips came up with a symbol that says "Do not Clive'.
The mystery icon: could it be "do not use for motion detector lamps?" The on and off cycling might be at issue if that's the case.
By my calculations, one of those bulbs would save about £1 per year per daily hour compared to the more usual ones at the same output at current UK electricity rates. So if a bulb was used on average 4 hours per day, that's about £4 a year and any extra cost would pay back in a year or two. However, if it's only turned on occasionally, then it's going to take decades. The lesson here is to put the most efficient bulbs into the fittings which are used most if you want to optimise your saving and expenditure.
Note, I've not considered any savings from the bulbs lasting longer, but that might not be so important for those which aren't used a lot anyway.
Thanks, Clive. Very interesting. I am wondering if the glass globes have a vacuum in them, or maybe some type of gas - or just regular air?
Possibly a gas like helium to assist thermal transfer.
@@bigclivedotcom helium would be costly, perhaps nitrogen or inert gas?
@Banter Maestro2 Helium-oxygen is the preferred filling in these. Although Helium will leak through certain glass types used in other lamps, the rate of diffusion through the soda-lime-silicate (Philips PH241 glass) and the strontium-barium-silicate (Philips PH360 glass) used for these lamps is exceptionally low. The most critical area is the glass-to-metal seals that carry the electrical current into the bulb. These are made from a borated copper sheath brazed to a 42% nickel-iron core to match the thermal expansion rate of the glass, and helium can diffuse along microcracks in the brazed interface. Even so, when bearing in mind the leak rate along the wires plus the rate of diffusion through the 0.6mm thick glass envelpe, I estimate that the half-life of the helium filling is about 75 years. This is well in excess of the rated life.
Using the part off datasheet is sometimes hazardous but it's amazing how much cooperation you can get from a chip manufacturer when you sign up for a few million parts per year:-)
Just wondering if a pipe cutter could be used to open the lamp fitting
Motion sensing lights that have an fully electronic sensor might not operate with the low power draw of LED lights unless they are designed to do so. I feel Philips are covering their butts as they do not know if the sensor fitting you have will function correctly with their bulbs. I have been caught out in the past myself, I wish such a symbol existed a few years ago.
Hey Clive, I would love to see a a project that steps up 5v to a suitably high voltage to run these efficient lamps off DC in a standard socket, I would love to convert my desk lamp to USB that way so it can be run off a powerbank
You can get 12V E27 (screw) bulbs for use on busses, caravans and houseboats. It's easy to step 5V up to 12V using a boost or buck-boost converter (cheap on amazon). I can't guarantee that a usb charger will be able to put out enough power for a bulb rated to more than a couple of watts. You might be better of running the converter directly from some 18650s or an rc hobbyist lipo pack.
@@charleslambert3368 with 12V DC you could even use a USB PD powerbank, no dedicated boost converter needed that way. All you'd need is a little 12V trigger board and a USB-C cable (both ends, though some supplies can do it on USB-A too). You can get those trigger boards very cheaply in the usual places (Ebay, Aliexpress etc).
17:05 I think even the late fluorescent tubes were worse then LEDs... I had a cap that looked dark green in CFL light, when it was brown in sunlight. In LED light it was a bit reddish brown.
An interesting bulb. I'll happily pay £12 - £15 for a bulb that doesn't need replacing every 18 months.
The symbol on the back is likely to do with outdoor/motion detection lights... But when I saw it my first thought was No Saturday Night Fever!
That symbol says, in plain English "Not suitable for PIR/proximity sensing lamp fixtures" (not for use in automatic lights). My assumption would be that say, outdoor porch lights, being prone to triggering on every cat, dog, kid, camel, goat, kangaroo, blackbird, crow, wicked witch, or postman etc. would turn on and of so many times, and at such frequent intervals, that the bulb would fail long before its projected lifespan.
An alternative meaning for that symbol "Do not drop curved screed LCD TVs on passing pedestrians"!
Finally they're bumping up the lumens on these lights... I'm tired of the dim 500-lumen lights most manufacturers try to pass off as "60 watt equivalent." I got used to using 1000+ lumen CFLs and it's been impossible to find a suitable LED replacement. I'll have to get some of these.
Asda do 14w LED's (I have them and under run them using Clive's method with the capacitors). I recently also picked up 22w warm white and 28w cool white LED bulbs from B&Q, although they were in the clearance (they were also enormous! About double the size of a regular bulb).
The "X watt equivalent" thing is mostly BS anyway, the only values that really matter are lumen and wattage. Around here (Germany) the manufacturers seem to have settled in with a few lumen "tiers" that most LED lamps fit into, ~250, ~480 and 800+, the only thing that really varies is how many watts the lamp draws to achieve that brightness.
I've used the IKEA smart bulb. They have a version that's 1000 lumen. Although I would tike the colour "quality" to be better (I don't remember the term).
I've been buying California spec 100W equivalents due to the high CRI.
Surprising honestly.
It's been quite easy to find 800-1000 lumens in this power range for 60W equivalent in a long while.
Regarding the symbol: since the lamp is radiating in 4*pi (i.e a sphere) , it is not ideal for a direktional light as in a security light or similar.
I wonder how the heat is. My enclosed overhead fixture kills everything so fast. This might be a long-term fix!
As heat is the energy that isn't turned into visible light, that lamp produces much less heat per watt it uses compared to "common lamps", and as it produces more light per watt, the heat for the same amount light is even more reduced. Heat is unlikely an issue with those lamps.
@@fishyerik in theory, yes. But it's not the filament that's cooking in my enclosure. It's the board from component hotspots. I'm not sure if driving twice the filament at half the power is going to change anything on the board. Won't stop me from buying a bunch, though.
@@Peffse Driver power, therefore also heat generated is included in that total power draw. There's not much room for heat generation when it produces 840 lm from only 4 W, filament and driver combined. Sure, if it was very poorly designed some component could be prone to overheating anyway, but it's unlikely to be the case. If those also die within a short time, there's probably something else that's wrong.
3:32 So it's a gas mantle white? Never thought anyone would've wanted that back, but Philips gets a gold star for trying.
Oh yeah, the green is definitely a dealbreaker for me. I generally avoid LED flashlights with a positive duv, so no way would I put in constant lighting that was tinted green. Makes everything look sickly, like old crappy fluorescent tubes.
Who needs ASMR to sleep when you have Big Clive's voice!