Why are people being so negative about the new D&D 2024 rule set
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- The new Dungeons and Dragons Player's handbook is coming out this fall along with an updated Dungeon Master's Guide and Monster Manual. The Dungeons and Dragons official RUclips page has started leaking bits and pieces on what is new in D&D 2024.
Many people on the internet have jumped at the opportunity to criticize this new rule set. But we have no knowledge of how this new system will play yet. So why all the negativity?
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The issue is that WotC and basically everyone in charge of DnD nowadays lost everyones trust by a series of actions that showed the community why they should not be trusted. It is true that people may be too harsh on something that they haven't even read, but this reaction does have a reasonable foundation.
Design choices are compared to legal choices how is that a healthy foundation, ones how fun a game is designed the other is the actions of the company outside the game
@@sweetpapad4674 Taemasu is a manbaby you can't reason with them.
@@sweetpapad4674 didnt say healthy, just reasonable. WotC has had mutiple occasions where they have prioritized money over fans, and fans obviously didnt let it slide (like with the whole monetization while using the DnD brand). Doesnt really matter if you have a team of passionate people working in DnD if the higherups will take advantage of the community once again when they see fit.
@@taemasu_b4597 not to argue but as someone part of fandoms outside of dnd. That whole thing was the biggest whine feast ever( though I agree if it did pass it probably would have been a negative it for the independent artists if no one else). at least in the user small Indy maker side of things all they were facing was literally copy right law, even the worst version of the ogl was just the normal rules most fans deal with, don’t believe look into halo or Star Wars fan made content ( there’s just a right and wrong way to do it, 343 usually does it right, Lucas film not so much). Heck you want to see a company take advantage of its fans and treat them badly try being a warhammer fan, I should note most of my defence is for WOTC not Hasbro oddly enough usually when a smaller company is doing sketchy things the parent company has a hand in it ( not always but enough to be safe money)
No one has read it, but we've seen every UA page that will end up in it, and we know that the ability WOTC have to make meaningful changes from the UA is negligible even if they wanted to do it.
1. The hard, undeniable fact is that 2024 is going to cost £150+, which is absurd for any game system - and was absurd in 2014 too.
2. The hard, undeniable fact is that 2024 is going to come with a walled garden VTT that incentivises microtransactions - they've already included microtransaction rewards in their preorder bonuses.
3. The hard, undeniable fact is that 2024 does not change any of the core-level functional problems of 5e, such as the balance between long rest and short rest based classes or the excess of low level spell slots in later tiers of play.
4. The hard, undeniable fact is that Jeremy Crawford once said that you can't use Twinned Spell on Firebolt, and has not been fired.
All of the people who are saying "wait until you read it, it might not be that bad" are just looking at the minor details like whether ASIs are tied to race, or the edge cases of Paladin's smiting. It doesn't even occur to them that the people who see 2024 as unnecessary are thinking about large-scale game design or game economy problems. I don't know if that's a lack of experience or perhaps a lack of interest, but the consequence is a lot of talk that sounds a lot like sycophancy.
Literacy of every type is in flux. The more important, critical thinking related ones are currently sinking. Things being taken at face value, despite mountains of evidence that a body exists. Which is deeply ironic for DnD players..... given its a hobby that revolves heavily around rules lawyering, interconnected systems, and more modding then a Bethesda game.
Well that’s just bull least in the book price I’ve already per ordered mine in Australia total cost 70 dollars conversation rate puts your price well lower then what you just wrote and don’t give me that oh different country thing prices in each foreign country and made to match to the cost in the USA
The hard undeniable fact is your're a manbaby
Haven't we seen an article on ranger, where they were like "we gutted the features that makes ranger a ranger, but you have more spells now so pick the flavorful ones if it's bothering you. Also a few numbers went up. Also also, your entire class now revolves around level 1 concentration spell"? I mean... Sure, let's wait for the books. But make sure you pirate before you buy. Make sure it's content worth paying for
The whole "we haven't seen the final product" argument doesn't hold up when there are public play tests, and a precedent of not fixing problems between play test and live. Gamers should be familiar with this by now.
@@freelancerthe2561 they made playtest material, only to cherry pick survey results. They seem to have a lack understanding why players disliked certain design decision (looking at you, druid. God damn it), and they totally ignored other results (like ranger). It was very odd. Or doing shit like publishing new wizard playtest, but not publishing new spells. Hey, wotc! Wizards cast spells! That's kinda their whole shtick!
"designed by hundreds of people" is a bigger downside than it is an advantage, there's a running joke among designers of all types that the best way to make a project fail is to double the number of people working on it.
it's the logic of
"if one woman can make a baby in 9 months, 9 women should be able to make a baby in 1 month"
For the record. You mentioned the game being worked on by 100s of people... I'm actually not so sure that's a statement of credit. I don't think Having anymore than 10 people working on a game design gives it anymore credibility.
I think the fun of the game does. Anyway, I'm looking forward to trying more systems that apparently take way less time to learn.
When you have a hundred game designers, that's called design-by-committee, and is also seen in the common expression "too many cooks spoil the broth".
@@yurisei6732 If they're all biased in the same direction, it won't be problem. Unfortunately that almost never happens. What usually happens is compromises are made to resolve disagreements, making meritorious arguments harder to select.
To everyone upset about all subclasses starting at level 3: Level 3 in this edition is designed to be the starting point for experienced players. Levels 1 and 2 are only for new players to learn the ropes. Once you've played through them before, according to one of the videos, the book encourages you to skip those levels and start your campaign at Level 3.
which makes sense ive been starting my 5e games at level 5 for years now (as past level 5 your hp growth slows to
I am looking forward to trying the new system. I need to see what new rules are there and if I need to homebrew rules again, but I am having a good time with the newer rules from 2024 (UA)
Well let me feed the algorithm:
It is backward compatible as far as K have seen (with one exception Shepard Druid)
It also is 5.5 because a new version does not mean incompatible just a significant change over the previous version
Already verified and hat there is guidance on characters using the original rules and new rules if using the new set
- Spells and Feats they have changed like spells use the new version otherwise use the old
- use the new subclasses over the old when possible if the Subclass had a early picking point (like clerics) move that subclass choice point back to 3rd level and use current rules lvl 1 and 2 ( ex do not give any armor proficiencies)
- when it comes to species use the new book then Monsters of the multiverse as the dm and player allow but don’t give attribute bonuses. (So yes you can use half elf and half orc from there)
- use the new PHB backgrounds and feats as prescribed in the new PHB.
While a bit wordy it is a simple enough pattern.
In red to negative YT creatives, the major ones are not very negative unless they already were pushing against D&D and in those cases seem like nothing changes ((exceptions - RANGER and to a lesser extent Rogue and Paladin))
I likely am not going to make the shift over but I fully expect and respect WotC putting out a book on the 50th anniversary of the game and trying to make money off it. Not only is that expected but it is NORMAL.
Be well one and all
yeah i'm gonna be trolling ebay for used copies of the books a year or so from now (after the hype dies down)
Not sure you are actually looking at everything that is out. This PHB is basically the first officially published errata. If it is in PHB24 (or as it should be called 5e Renerfed) you follow that. If it is not addressed there you use the existing rules. For example Necromancer is not in PHB24 so you follow the current version and where class and subclass conflict you follow the 24 information which basically says when you get your subclass feature you receive everything that applies to that lvl or lower. So problems come up like with Cleric. Unless they specify that you get your 17th lvl feature at lvl 14 all clerics lose the last subclass feature. In some cases this leads to interesting interactions. For example I play an Arcana cleric (not in PHB24 so follow the existing,) this allows a cleric to pick one spell off the Wizard list of the following levels 6,7,8, and 9. So there is now a rules interaction that would mean that at lvl 14 a caster would have both an 8th and 9th lvl spell WITHOUT the slot to cast it with.
I feel that this interaction was the only reason Theurgy Wizard didn't make it.
This is just one of the problems created by 5e Renerfed. There are some good things but the bad outnumber the good.
Subclasses will get their features at the same levels they did EXCEPT those that got features at level 1 & 2. So no, the Arcana domain will still get their last feature at level 17 as they always have. They WERE going to standardize class progression early on in the playtest, but they decided against it and made it so it only applies to features in the first 2 levels going to level 3 instead.
The big issue here imo is that this is starting to feel a lot like adnd 2e, an almost entirely compatible 'new edition' that existed largely to check boxes on corporate checklists and oust the old guard. 2e had some really cool stuff, but most of what was produced for it was slop to sell more books and merch, and it ended up ruining community goodwill and bankrupting TSR because why pay for slop when the 1e books work just fine? One DnD just feels like all that corporate bull all over again, with the layoffs, the ogl stuff, everything just piling up to get as much profit out of players and DM's as possible before the whole ship sinks
While I understand your AD&D to 2e concept I think there is some rose tented glasses here. The shift was really needed as the AD&D was put together in pieces so there were some where high was good and others where it was bad. The first system was ponderous and made even more so by the book Uneqrthed Arcana (great ideas but added some complexity).
This is 5e to 5.5 is really a bit less of a rebalance and less required but the goal was clearly to make it more accessible at the DM level with minor perks to PCs. (Which I argue is needed as the number of DMs is almost entirely insufficient.)
@@leodouskyron5671
It's akin to OW2.
D&D Next was created to milk the users of as much money as they can. Nothing more.
Ask yourself, "Why there are few DMs?"
To be honest. Hasbro/WotC has neither answered nor actually addressed that particular problem. And why would they? They are pushing for generative DMs so *everyone* can be a player.
@@TryssemTavern
So did Nintendo give you a switch for free or at cost? Did they only make games when they felt like it. Know any kickstarters that had unlock goals? Maybe you think that Settlers of Catan was a charity.
The fact is people and companies make product to make money. And that is okay. Period. Full stop.
If you hate Hasbro/WotC for the actions of their leaders I am total cool with that and understand but that has nothing to do with my beliefs about the system and what they are trying to do. And in fact, you miss two points. I) the players handbook always has been the primary way the game system have been set out and that can help or hinder DM activities and 2)from all report the increase of the number of DMs is a goal by showing how to make the game worlds and adventures that are at the heart of the system. We will only know if they are successful once the DMG comes out and we see the effect of that with the PHB.
Be well and take care
Gonna be interesting to see if 5e players unwillingness to try other systems ends up applying to new D&D editions as well. I mean obvs they can always keep it up w/ 5e, but D&D is big enough that money is enough of a driver to clash with the desires of a creator (kinda like a less extreme version of where AAA games are at.) Interesting times for TTRPG for sure for sure.
Great thumbnail btw man. Clean stuff :)
Because they did not address overpowered spells. What is IMO and a lot of opinions the most glaring problem with 5e, some youtube channels DO have the new books but are under NDAs. Treantmonk specifically hinted that the majority of those spells were not addressed.
As I've said multiple times already. I am going to reserve my final judgement for when I have seen the book. But I still feel justified for not having high expectations after everything I have heard. Primarily because I love rangers. They are my favorite class. But I absolutely hate Hunter's Mark. So my favorite class is going into a direction I don't like. I am not denegrating or begruding anyone else if they are excited for the new version.
I will check it out. But I don't expect very much of it. From all the things I have heard about what they said in their videos, this version of DND is probably not going to be my cup of tea. Luckily I play other systems I can still enjoy.
I've seen the UA docs and wasn't impressed. The playtest period was relatively short (compared the the 2012-2014 DnD Next playtests) and they didn't even tested the updated monsters
Dude you must be brand new. You fail to comprehend that a lot of DND peeps been thru this 4 times already...
theyre just repeating all the same old mistakes, then say "trust us, you'll love it!". 😂
Also, people are mad they laid off most of the WotC staff for Xmas. RIGHT before they announced this new edition.
This is AD&D and 3.5 all over again bro.
*You are only new once, but you will be experienced for all time after that....*
I was an new player to 5e, completely self-taught, and subclasses at level 3 makes 0 sense to half of the cases, doesn't make the game so much more easy to need to be that way, and the moment a new player isn't new anymore, it will just be a flavorfaill for literally no reason at all.
I won't be playing this version. I'm sick of the political/social pandering they are putting into it. It's a fantasy world, it shouldn't reflect our politics and social rules. I turn to fantasy to get away from that crap.
Right? How can a multi-billion dollar company like Ha$bro end up stealing and using AI art on their D&D and MtG products with their bankroll?
Love your positivity, but this aged really bad, since people do have the book now and have reviewed it, a lot of the issues aren’t fixed and they created more problems than they fixed.
But yeah, it’s why I turned my back on wotc even before the ogl situation, and I personally don’t agree with supporting them financially or making content that isn’t critical of them.
Still, love your positive take and wish it was true, just time told us it wasn’t and we shouldn’t expect it from a company that has done all they’ve done to the fans, system, employees, and more
💯💜
I don't care how good the game system is Wizards of the Coast does not deserve my money time or respect and I will not be playing the New Edition regardless.
I'm negative about the game not because of the merits of the game itself and I'm sure that the designers have put in a lot of time and hard work into the game and for those people I do feel bad.
But the the corporation that is Wizards of the Coast does not deserve my money and will not have it
People are negative about DnD 2024 because it's a product without a market.
We know Hasbro's intentions are basically to monetize the playerbase as much as possible, and the company's behavior for the past 2 years or so has burned almost all of the goodwill the community has for the DnD brand.
Also the diehard 5E crowd really doesn't want to buy a new core rulebook, because they're pretty happy playing whatever table homebrew they've been on for the last half-decade.
I'm personally pretty plugged into the tabletop space, and I know nobody who's excited for DnD 2024 or has any intentions on running it or is itching to be a player.
This is completely anecdotal. You say you’re plugged into the space and nobody’s excited for it… And yet I know so many people excited for it, I’m excited for it, the guy in the video is excited for it…
You say people don’t want to play the new addition… Wildly enough, they don’t have to.
This is no different than a popular game getting a DLC that cost some more money. It comes with quality of life features, changes, new stuff, etc. - you can just keep playing the original version of the game… You don’t have to buy the DLC. Therefore, it shouldn’t bother you at all.
@@LevelUpmmo, yes, it's anecdotal. But when I know 30 or so people in the ttrpg space and none of them have more interest in DnD 2024 than indifferent neutrality, that's pretty indicative of something.
Granted of the 6 ttrpg games I'm in currently, only one is DnD 5E, so my tabletop group and its extrapolations again may not be the market for DnD2024, however if hasbro wasn't open about wanting to fleece their customerbase, at least some of us very well may be.
I personally spend a few hundred bucks a year on ttrpg books, I probably won't buy a single dnd2024 book for myself at least for the first couple of years of the game's life.
People make money on youtube by trashing it and no matter what they do people are always upset
I am excited for the update. I think most of the people that are already complaining before they even get their hand on the books are your average internet trolls who just complain about everything even though they have never created anything of their own. I agree with most of what you said.
Excuse me?
*Excuse me?!*
I've created an entire world for my AD&D group. Gods, NPCs, history, maps. I watched the players shape world changing events. So don't try to say the nay-Sayers are incapable of creating something.
I played some 3.0/3.5 but it started attracting min/maxers. Even the developers admitted they added 'skill check' abilities and spells to the edition. I didn't give 4e a chance. I read the PHB and said, "Nope". I dabbled in 5e. Lore books were interesting. Game felt too video game for me.
And guess what? They are pushing for the game to be more easily translated into a digital space.
If you like the direction the TTRPG is going, that's fine. There is no shame in liking it. It is rather immature to call people with a different opinion trolls. We have a good reason to dislike the new edition. Just as you feel you have a good reason to be excited for it.
I don't think that people want to play the new edition. They want to have a reason to change. Personally, I moved to nimble 5e. I simply don't like the system that much and the company much less
(Disclaimer: I haven't watched the video) People have actually read it. Many youtubers have received early copies.
And many who have are very positive. IE Treantmonk and d4 Deep Dive. The former of which is going exclusively 5.24 because it addresses many of his issues and stuffs out optimization standards he's tired of seeing.
@@theindiefox347
The weird thing about that?
Hasbro hasn't sent any copies to be reviewed by those who are often critical of the direction D&D is going. They are sending copies to people who may have had 'family style' criticisms of D&D/Hasbro, but never actually honest, or actually do blindly believe the company will do what is best for the game.
*("Family style" Criticism = telling a 4 year old that the scribbles that are meant to be the family puppy is, "So beautiful and well drawn" )*
Should be noted mate that they also haven’t spoken about those books though any information they are talking about is purely like us from the dnd offical videos, they can’t talk about book stuff there under an nda till mid august
You should read about D&D's history because 5.5e's troubles have happened before and are basically happening all over again
"...all we have is their word." That's exactly right - and it is the reason why I am so very sceptical about anything and everything they put out at this point. I have not forgotten what they tried to pull with the OGL. Back then they said "nobody is trying to get rid of the OGL - trust us, bro." Well, we all know how that played out. WotC showed beyond doubt that their word cannot be trusted. Nor did they imposeany sort of consequences for that desaster on any of the people responsible for said desaster. Sure, the rank and file workers may be passionate about the game, but they still have to follow directives from on high. Meaning the same untrustworthy people who were behind OGL 1.1.
This is why I doubt the official narrative until proven in print. WotC fooled us once - or tried to. And I refuse to expose myself to maybe being fooled again.
Wotc just messed up again, they removed 5e content from dnd beyond even if you paid for it.
And I do t hate the new ideas, I just can’t support wotc anymore, will always love dnd 💜🤣
i'm upset about:
- the mexican orcs
- the erasure of half races
i don't care about balance, since i usually run homebrew
Lets not forget about the continued use of Generative image programs for their art. 😒
Removing half-races is actually a good thing, since with the generification of races going full force during 5e, half-races have been squeezed out of their niches. Elves just do what half-elves were for now, Orcs just do what half-orcs were for.
There not Mexican their western, all the clothing in that picture is literally clothing warn by both Mexicans and many other south westerns cowboys and no having a moustache isn’t a sign of being Latino either facial hair oddly enough exists with multiple ethnicities
@@sweetpapad4674 That's missing the more important point, which is that whether they're coded after Mexicans or after Texans, they're still anachronistic. Chaps and cowboy hats have no place in D&D.
@@sweetpapad4674 honestly I'm sick of all the political and social pandering they are putting into it for the "woke" community. I play games and read books that are fantasy in order to get away from the political/social crap of our own world. They have taken every D&D "species" and now made them represent all the races of our world. I mean look at their new art. They have black, Asian, Indian etc. that isn't needed in a separate fantasy world.
I don't see any reason to care about dungeons and dragons anymore. If your an old player, this game w/e it is, is not dungeons and dragons. If your a new player pathfinder is just universally better at this style of "low complexity" rule system. Why is it important that this game has a name brand?
Negative? I'm wondering why people still care. There are so many good systems out there.
So go play them.
It's funny cause other systems players come to dnd videos.
I honestly don't care about your system and don't want to change.
I love dnd and gonna play it until the end
@@jspsj0 I'm glad you love it :) It probably doesn't have to be the only thing you play though! Life is too short to stay in one place, my friend!
Because "There are so many good systems out there" is a very easy thing to say when you're not the one who has to find which of those systems does what you want a system to do. I was playing non-D&D systems for ten years before I started playing D&D, and none of the dozens I tried really hit the spot. 5e didn't either, but it was closer than the others. Now my tastes have changed, I have to go through that whole system-searching process all over again.
@@yurisei6732 Ah brother... I feel you. Hey, I was in the same spot not too long ago. In a way, I still am. I noticed, after playing 5e, I had to consider what it was that I actually _wanted_ . I came to the conclusion that what I _wanted_ was a quasi-western medieval high fantasy. I also _wanted_ narrative play with little encumbrance from rules systems. Right now, I'm enjoying DC20, but I'm also looking at systems like Knave, Shadowdark, and Nimble 5e.
Perhaps there's a way I can just use everything I like from these much simpler systems.
The core issue with 5e is that every solution to every problem is in your character sheet
This leads to a certain type of low stakes game that some people don’t enjoy
5.5 is doubling down on this design philosophy
Where on my character sheet does it let me bypass Legendary resistance of a Dragon, so I can subdue it and make it my steed?
Because Lineages suck. They're lazy game design. They make all the different, wonderful cultures, races, and fantastic species you could ever engage with hollow. There's no tangible difference between a goliath and a halfling.
And they have redesigned the entire game around this homogenizing ruleset.
They accept no criticism that might improve the product, such as D&D one, and accept even less responsibility.
I don't need to read it to know it will be more of the same, just seeing what has been teased and leaked thus far.
Meanwhile, Eilns have almost as many classes as the rest of the rest of the races combined. The thing you're complaining about is just as much a player side problem as a design problem. Whats the point of racial distinctions if players are just going to ignore it to Min/Max or try and RP their counter culture rebel that hates the institution. We call the Dark Elf paradox.
Eddie's my new favorite D&D content creator
You forgot negativity about the art and wokeness.
If you see someone complaining about "wokeness" in a piece of media, 100% you're either witnessing a grifter or someone about to tumble down an alt-right pipeline.
The reason I have with the new D&D system?
It's becoming a video game. Literally. :)
The rules are going to have to be digital/Virtual table top friendly. Especially since WotC/Hasbro will be (in all likelihood, lets be frank here) investing in AI DMing. 5th has already shown they are gearing towards 'min/maxing' and 'optimized' builds. (I can't translate any of my AD&D characters properly to 5th edition without losing some key aspect of the character. 😛)
The CEOs have already bluntly stated they want to milk D&D for all we've got. I understand wanting to make sure a product is profitable. But Profitable =/= Bleed them dry!
Oh, and lets talk about that pre-order nonsense. They are literally pushing you to buy Tier I, or the Tier III $180 package. There is virtually no difference between the Tier I and Tier II. Except for the price point.
So yeah. If I wanted to play an MMO that was like a video game, I would play a video game. Or bust out my EQ TTRPG books.
Thank you for voicing this sentiment. Completely agree.
Really appreciate your take, it is unfortunate that negativity drives views. Appreciate your content!! I'm a long time DM and I will more than likely take what my players and I enjoy and go from there. o/
Thank you for your kind words! It's nice to know that people are enjoying this content :)
WotC has proven its disdain for its consumers, we should return the favor. Not turn the other cheek until we've had our teeth all knocked out
DND died at the end of 3.5. This is the abject truth. That was when the game stopped being about Gygax's legacy, and started being about buying yachts for rich assholes that don't deserve them.
NOTHING WoTC can do, will correct that. Pathfinder tried, and still couldn't pull it off.
I wish you best of luck with your healthy optimism as i click the do not recomentd button, may the pinkertons not knock on your door, may your ogl never change and may your monthly online subscription to a game to play with friends monetize you just the right amount for Hasbro.
Your a very petty person aren’t you
Also the pinkertons never kicked down the door, not ever the guy who had this happen to him said that, do some research before making statements