80% of People Use the Wrong Screwdriver For Electrical Work
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- Опубликовано: 9 май 2024
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There are much better options than a Phillips Head Screwdriver when doing DIY Electrical projects around the house. With minimal investment, you will have an easier time securely and safely wiring outlets and light switches using the right tool for the job.
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Chapters
0:00 Intro
0:48 Issue with Phillips Head Screwdriver
1:45 Issue with Slotted Screwdriver
2:45 Better Option
4:29 Best Option
6:21 Wrap Up
DISCLAIMER: This video and description contain affiliate links, which means that if you click on one of the product links, I’ll receive a small commission. 
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To be precise, though, that slotted screwdriver is wrong for that particular screw (too small). A properly sized slotted screwdriver should be as wide as the head (or nearly so), and thick enough that it provides a tight fit in the slot.
Right for this demo he should have had the right size slotted screw driver, but then again when you are in a hurry or can not find the right size, which is most of the time, his demo was more realistic.
Good catch. A properly sized slotted screwdriver also doesn't slip out of the slot as readily as an undersized one.
yes when these things were first put in practice a flat head screwdriver would have looked more like a cold chisel than what most of us have today to tighten up chair/table legs
That's the problem with slotted screws, there's no hard standard so you need a handful of screwdrivers.
@@jkbrown5496 There seems to be somewhat of a standard now with slotted screws - there's like 3 sizes that are useful - the large ones for screws like this in large electrical work, a mid size one that's kindof a jack of all trades, master of none type size, and a smaller one that's common on terminal blocks and small electronics. If you look at Klein screwdrivers, which are somewhat targeted at electrical work, there are 3 common sizes, and they're very similar to the sizes you find in other brand screwdriver sets as well.
As a Canadian in my sixties, I’ve been using Robertsons all my my life. It never occurred to me that someone would use anything else for electrical screws. Also, for wood screws, I can put a screw on the tip of the screwdriver and carry it to the target hole with just one hand sideways without it falling off. Robertson screws were invented by a furniture maker.
The Robertson #1 (green) and #2 (red) are part of every Canadian tool box, and it left me wondering what in this video what would be wrong with this? - it did not even occur to me that people would try to use a Philips!
@@BlaineZuk Here in the states Robertsons are primarily used in pocket screws. That's about it. a lot of people don't even know the robertson exists outside of that
I use the #1 Robertson the same way as described in the video, #2 Robertson for the ground screws in the outlet boxes and #3 Robertson for the Electrical Panel box screws (Square D panel). I don't recommend it, but a drill driver at slow speed helps as well.
Outside of electrical work, if you do manage to strip the screw head, you can drill 1/8 in the stripped head, tap in a #2 red robertson and pull the screw out, regardless of original shape (but you need practice as it doesnt always work and can take a toll on the driver. I keep older worn out driver for this reason). The robertson is the way to go for almost all screws when the option is available
@@HickLif3 The Kreg branded pocket hole screws use a square drive bit. The square drive bit was a cheap knock off of the patented Robertson bit design. Robertson Inc is still in Milton, Ont. I have boxes of both Kreg & Robertson branded screws in #8 in about 8 different lengths.
As an electrician, I've been using the ECX screwdriver for years now. It's also great for EMT fittings. I rarely use a slotted screwdriver for anything other than a pry bar or doorstop.
@@tabooretka as an electrician myself, I do occasionally use slotted screwdrivers. The offset ‘wiggly’ works best for cover plates imo. Larger slotted sizes come in handy when working on older equipment/loadcenters, and occasionally new breakers that use slotted terminal screws
In Canada we use three Robertson size bits which work for every situation, and when we order something that comes with flathead or Phillips type screws, we generally toss those screws into a jar and replace them with Robertson screws. This makes the job better and easier for us and the next guy who comes along and has to do some work on that piece of equipment.
Yup. When I remove a flathead and Phillips screw I usually toss it directly into the garbage.
As a handy Canadian I just sort of took it for granted that everyone used a #1 Robbie for that. Robertson is my tip of choice for most things and I only use Philips or slotted when I have no choice. For someone who did that job all the time though I can certainly see how buying that hybrid tip screwdriver would be worthwhile.
Agreed. Though I have also come to really love Torx. :) Slotted screws should be relegated to horology and vintage machinery.
As an American, I just started seeing Robertson head only screws just in the last 5-7 years or so, but I just realized that most screws probably have been compatible with the Robertson this entire time. But, F**K the person that puts tamper resistance torx in the packaging of kids toys. Not the toy itself mind you, the screws that hold it to the shipping spacers.
@@timsievers2067 The Torx is nice though. It holds REALLY well on the driver bit. You do need that bit though; most bit kits now have them.
@@timsievers2067 Torx bits, even tamper resistant, are incredibly easy to come by. I can't believe people are still complaining about them in 2022.
@@mjc0961 talking 2005 actually, and most people today still dont know what a "torx" is or why they need it to use the toy they just bought. I just came across a "rex" bit today, never heard of it before walking through the clearance aisle at the hardware store.
Since I live in Canada, Robertson screws are very commonly used. The great thing about them is that you can hold the screw on the end of your screwdriver if you want to start the screw more easily. I hardly ever use Philips screws and never slot screws anymore.
When I get things that come with screws, they are usually Philips head (and soft metal, at that) so they go directly into the scrap metal bin and are substituted with Robersons.
Hopefully Phillips and slotted screws will be extinct soon.
Torx is coming on along pretty well in the US, they are readily available everywhere. They're around, but Robertson is still not too common here.
Prefer Robertson over all other profiles.
@@mayorb3366 we gotta have something that cams out reasonably easy for mounting gypsum wallboard. Perhaps if mfgrs of wallboard guns introduced some mechanism that withdraws the cam-out-free bit at a certain point, but why? Philips still seems like it should be the go-to for drywall screws to me. darn near everything else? Robertson or Torx, please.
I have recently gone with the multi-bit that has ECX, Robertson, Phillips, Flat, and several sizes of nut driver. It has become my go-to because of the versatility. I have large hands, so I have no problem holding the larger handle.
I do a lot of handyman/maintenance work. I started using the Milwaukee ECX a few years ago. It is hands down the best tool for working with switches and outlets. No more slipping and worrying if your phillips is going to slip and not get the screw tight enough. The ECX grabs and very seldom slips. Always a tight connection when you are finished.
I have stripped so many screws with the same thought process. The tips you provided have made me feel more confident in tackling these kind of projects.
In the Electrical field here in Canada. It has been the norm to use the Robertson Drivers. They are common to purchase and are not expensive, good quality brands are readily available and they don't slip out. The Green Colored number one Robertson Driver is probably the most commonly used driver after the Red colored number two. That's the color of the handles so you can immediately tell the difference. A zero which is very small, is yellow and a number three, that is a black handle, it's for bigger screws.
So common that if you say hand me a red everyone knows what you're talking about.
The electrical outlets I bought didn't even support Phillips. It made things so much easier than I thought replacing outlets would be, the torque is satisfying. I don't know anything about screwdriver sizes and the green thing worked perfectly.
@@leerman22 That's right. I didn't even know that they made ones that accept Phillips screw drivers as well. The ones that I use only take a Roberson and a slot screwdriver.
not to mention it looked like a cheap POS from the thrift store.
@@my3dviews And indeed, the screwheads in this video do NOT have a Phillips opening at all - they are a combo of Robertson and straight slot and NOTHING else.
I never knew these existed. As a DIY'er, I have run into these problems MANY times with Philips screwdrivers and have wondered what the right type was for YEARS. I just ordered a Milwaukee ECX #1 along with a set of #1 and #2 driver bits. Thank you!!
In all my tool bags, my desk draw, my range bag, and my main camera case, I carry Klein 11-in-1 screwdrivers. Full time, I do datacom, and often have need to use conduit, and much prefer when there is a square head on them, though I mostly use the dust-free conduit fittings because the client that I do the most conduit for requires them. Recently, I was replacing some outlets in my house, and love the squares, works so well. When doing carpentry type work, I much prefer the star head screws. For the finish screws I use for some stuff, they are a square drive and work very well.
IMHO, all types have their place, well, except for flat heads, lets get rid of flat heads.
For the average home DIYer, that doesn't want to invest in another "specialty" tool that may see very minimal use, I'll go with the Robertson as I already have several of those loose bits and didn't really know what they were used for but now I do!
Robertson is the best screwdriver bar none, the main reason it’s not used as much as it should is it’s Canadian whereas Philips is American.
Robertson is amazing so much better than philips
You can get the bit for your impact driver too, though. It's what I use for screwing the outlet into its box.
a good quality #2 phillips grips much better than his illustration. but the hybrid locks in like nothing else does.
@@kenbrown2808 I see no advantage to the ECX over a Robertson - it's just a gimmick to sell custom screwdrivers to yanks - in Canada, everyone has always used Robertson drivers exclusively for electrical work. I do enjoy how now in the US "square drive" wood screws are like a high end specialty item, and in Canada nearly all wood screws and self tapping metal screws are Robertson.
I inherited a bunch of tools from my dad who was an industrial electrician for decades. I came across a number of "weird" Phillips looking screw drivers. It never occurred to me to try them on electrical switches/outlets. But that Milwaukee "ECX" screw driver just answered a decade old questions of "what the heck did he have these for". Thanks!
I inherited some of my Grandpa's Fathers 1920s tools. Hand drills, measuring devices, hammers, all still work/look just fine. Like little treasures but probably not worth all that much any where else
Industrial electrician here, when I started in 1990 my employer made me buy a Reid and Prince screwdriver, looks like a Phillips, never used it...ever.
@@blur911 Reid and Prince fasteners have that extra little groove. Reid and Prince screwdrivers have corresponding pawls to fit in there. In over 50 years working with tools, I have never needed one. One would have to wonder why your employer insisted on you having one! I hope it didn't cost much.
@@badbiker666 The guy making the tool list hadn't worked in the field in years, nor in Canada, I also have a set of huge fuse pullers I've never used. I remember neither of them being cheap.
As a mechanic I use a Snap On Philips #2 which does not slip due to its design, never knew about the square drive so I’ll definitely try that next time. Thanks for the info was very informative
54 years old and have always thought about how to improve outlet screws, but no need now you found the tools! Ordering these now thanks!
Update: Just checked your Amazon link, the Milwaukee driver is unavailable so I got Milwaukee 48-32-4440 Insert bit Ecx 1/4"Hex, 2 Pack. Thanks again!
I'm an Electrician from Canada we here always use the #1 Robertson screwdriver. Most of our screws are Robertson here way easier to use they don't fall off your screwdriver, when lights etc come with Phillips screw we usually just throw them away and use Robertson screws instead.
Fun fact 1: the tendency of a screwdriver to slip out from the screw head while applying torque is call "cam out"
Fun fact 2: People who mention Robertson screws most likely Canadians because they're quite popular in Canada. These screws were invented by Canadian inventor P.L. Robertson and patented in 1909. The Ford Model T used around 700 of these screws but Ford later shifted to using Phillips screws when Robertson refused to grant an exclusive license to Ford for the use of these square drive screws.
Green robbie for electrical ohly
Mr Roberston was actually an American that immigrated into Canada. Us Canadians don't like to tell too many people that part though
@@peterdeboer2805
Henry Ford was a control freak as well as an admirerer of Adolf Hitler. Americans rarely mention that.
thats wild. as an electronics technician I think I will stick with the philips and then tighten with a flat head unless I come accross a robinson bit in one of my sets for personal use. will keep that in mind tho when picking new tools in the future.
3:00 I work in maintenance and have had some of these square bits and NEVER knew what they were for until now. I've never seen any of my coworkers use them so I just figured they were for a special type of screw. This is awesome!
You'll use the square bits in a lot of construction screws, torx bits are found in construction screws often as well. Oh! And your pocket hole screws are almost all square bit for ease of install.
How did it feel to have everyone in Canada yelling at your video for the first 3 minutes? Always has been Robertson's for me as a DIYer . Pretty sure most Canadians have the same experience.
Yup, but you need both a "red handle" and "green handle" to properly do NEMA outlets. The green can work in the terminal screws, but often strips out. The Red is the one to use, and it can apply a large amount of torque, enough to overtighten if one goes too far.
The Green handle is used for the box attachment screws.
I've been a home improvement carpenter for a long time, and this is the first I've heard of these screw drivers. I will be adding them to my tool collection soon. Great info. Thanks.
I have never heard of these kind of screwdrivers either.
I have at least 6 of these sit around that have never been used. Philips gets the job done perfectly every time. Why fill a slot on my bag/belt for a single use tool
@@txfreerider Home Depot in Canda sells mostly Robertson exclusively. I can't recall seeing any Phillips screw s on their shelves. My tool pouch is all Robertson drivers. I rarely have to use Phillips and when I do it's usually accompanied by some 4 letter words has they're so hard to deal with.
THANKS FOR YOUR VIDEO. PLEASE include this on your next one. (I'm going to get myself a Milwaukee #1-ECX tool)That's Kewl!
What most people don't realize, the multi-bit, (or I call them "flip-over screwdrivers"), have 2 different sized deep pocket nut-drivers (for doing stud type terminal boards). A different size on each end, and you can pull the driver tube out all the way and the handle has a slotted drive hole in it, that is a perfect tool for tightening wing type wire nuts...!
I hadn't ever heard of such a thing! If I get back in to electrical work I'll certainly have one of these in my kit.
One GREAT benefit of the multi-drivers is that you can put a #1 square drive on one side of the sleeve and a small straight blade bit on the other side. Allows you to quickly flip from installing outlet and switch wiring then flip the sleeve and install the plates.
Bought Wiha ECX drivers in #1 and #2 a while ago when doing panel work to bring my panel up to current code with AFCI/GFCI breakers. Huge difference in confidence tightening the fasteners. They've also been super handy on receptacles and switches. I am slowly ridding my home of push connected outlets and switches and replacing them with commercial grade or wire around screw connections.
Been using Phillips for 30+ years, I can assure you I can apply enough torque to break the screws clean off. As an electrician I want to carry as little as possible, don’t get me wrong Robertson is great just don’t need all the time, I like them in panels.
But we have to be honest, today, screws are not what used to be 30 years ago. Today screws start to slide at very little torque. Yes, I know on higher torque turn should be slower but again, quality changed. Multi-bit screwdriver is a must today.
PS. Regarding this pool, depends where voters are from. In Europe, I doubt anyone used 3rd or 4th option. I am from EU, and I dont use 3rd or 4th option, this is first time I saw it.
This!
@@orion310591RS EU here , installed few breakers recently used Philips driver, but i have a breaker that i need to install so i just had to check in disbelief , and that little shit uses square driver screw. My brain just exploded...it looked weird when i was installing it but it would never occur to me I'm supposed to use square driver for it 😅
@@terrabiker The trick is, that material from USA or standard from USA arrived to EU. And it (almost) can be done in old fashined way with old (improper for new standard) tools.
To be honest we are talking about fine details, and just a little bit more (hand produced) torque which may not be needed for stationary wires, but again, this video is useful for informing people about slightly different tools/standards.
if you strip half the screws you touch effortlessly, you're a true electrician. 😉
Years ago I bought the Milwaukee 11 in 1 screwdriver that has two different sizes of that hybrid tip. At first, I wasn't happy about it and thought I was sure that I would rarely have use for them, but they have come in handy a few times now. Given the choice, I would go with the square tip, just for overall simplicity.
As a European watching this, hearing him call this things modern is pretty funny.
Electricians adopted the Robertson early when they were doing knob and tube wiring it would allow one handed operation of the screw driver while holding the wire and insulator together.
Interesting, because every old panel and jbox from the 20s-60s ive gutted or worked on from residential to industrial has been slotted only
Yep... for years that was me. I could never figure why the phillips never quite fit right. Then someone turned me on to the Milwaukee insulated ECX screwdriver and it has been my go to electrical fastener ever since.
I live in the Netherlands, and I have a Stanley 64-961 for years now and never new why it existed. Now I know, but we have different sockets for electric work but the screws I do recognise. Handy to know when to use the Stanley Robertson tip 1
Legrand is also my standard - I'm currently remodeling, and as I come across a switch or receptacle, I swap them out with a Legrand unit. They also have a great variety of paddle switches, dimmers, GFIs, Receptalces (including GFIs) with USB power plugs, receptacles with built in night lights, etc. Coolness!!!
As a Canadian, I have used #1,2,3 Robertson for decades. Pretty much everything from Framing, Deck building, Fence building to Electrical. It also never occurred to me to use a Philips or Slot, they will just slip. I just don't like the multibit drivers with Robertson, the dedicated Robertson screwdrivers I find last longer. I think everything should be Robertson or Torx.
If you can find a modern screw made for a modern P bit, a modern ISO-standard P bit will work perfectly. But those screws are rarely used in applications where so much torque is needed that cam-out would be a problem. "Jeweler's" drivers are P type.
Flat screwdrivers are made for prying things like paint cans open lol
As a non-Canadian, I think everything should just be Torx
As a fellow Canadian, I love using the robertson screwdriver. On job sites, I get disappointed when some equipment comes with a slot or phillips only.
It’s unfortunate that Henry Ford is still keeping USA from using the better screw. Robertson is in so many ways superior and easier to use over Philips....should have died over 100 years ago.
Another great video Scott. Once one uses the ECX, its hard to go back. I might mention that for typical duplex/switch replacement, and cover replacements, I usually find myself reaching for my ‘old’ GB 1000 volt insulated screwdriver with multi tips. It works well enough on the wiring, and the smaller slotted bit is perfect for the plate screws. Peace ✌🏻
I hadn't thought about a Robertson fitting in the slot. Guess I'll be picking up a new driver before I do my next round of outlet/switch replacements.
Thanks for pointing ECX out. As soon as I saw this video, I went and found my ECX screw drivers. I did notice on some older Leviton plugs I had on hand only had Philips head screws to ECX may not work for all devices.
I was an electrician, many years ago, and I never heard about the Robertson driver fitting those screw heads. Wish I had known. Thanks for the info, it will still come in handy for future projects.
Older devices did not accept the Robertson screwdriver. I am not sure when the manufacturers redesigned their products to accept it. I have a #1 Robertson in my bag (purchased in Canada) and I use it on any switch or receptacle because I found that other screwdrivers could slip.
The ECX bit is wonderful for terminals you need a good bite on to tighten. I keep a couple in the tool bag for such. I have found that a 1/4 flat driver works for 99.9% of devices I work on though. Cover plates all the way to panel lugs. The less tools hanging on my belt the happier I am.
I've heard "ECX" however wasn't 100% on it vs the Robertson, Thanks for making it crystal clear.
I've always used a Philips. I did not know that the terminal was designed for a Robertson! And, I never knew about the ECS. thank you!
I use the square drive, works really well for me especially for really torquing down on some things such as a 24 volt trolling motor plug.
Thanks for showing this. I live in Canada and I have always used a robertson screwdriver for these. As a matter of fact the robertson screw was invented in Canada. I notice the United States seems to use mostly the philips head screws and not much of the robertson. I didn't know the ECX Milwaukee screwdriver even existed. I will have to check that out.
I've been using either JIS or a larger slotted screwdriver.. never occurred to me to try the square drive. I'll probably switch to Robertson no.1 and just leave that in my appropriate bin. I might try the hybrid but only if I catch a good sale or have a chance to try one out first.
JIS is gold
I have a Vessel JIS driver that has a serrated tip for extra bite and it works very good. Especially when driving actual JIS screws.
Yeah, that what I used the square #1 fitted perfectly . Thanks
As most others, I hadn't heard of the combo ECX driver before. This should be a "Game Changer" when installing outlets/switches.
Just like jeffostrof, I went to Home Depot and got the insulated #1 ECX, a straight blade, and phillips set for $20.97. I had expected to pay $20 just for the uninsulated #1 ECX. A great deal!!
THanks for the video.
Yup, great deal
It’s called a Xeno tip generically, ecx is a brand name
I wish I had known this 30 years ago. My DIY days are over, but I did a lot of home wiring back then, and no one ever suggested these tools.
30 years ago a standard receptacle did not have the type of screw shown in this video so neither the special combination tip or the square drive would have been useful. At that time only a standard flat blade screwdriver would be used.
Because noone cares enough to use these tools today and they didn't use those screws back in the day.
Just another example of people inventing solutions to problems that don't exist.
Lazy bum
I didn't know there were any other type of screwdiver other than Robertson.
Thanks for showing me how ineffective the other drivers are compared to the square drivers.
Thanks
I learned something new today. Never knew that #1 square bit was so useful and called Robinson bit
Me too. I thought that the only choice as Phillips or slotted.
The Roberston (square) is a simply superior screw. It is great for electrical work but what I like best is that when driving screws you can put the screw on the bit first and it will stay there. Also, the screwdriver bit will not cam out as easily as a Phillips or slotted. If you buy a box of Roberstons you will never go back to Phillips.
Add a good magnetic bit holder and you can’t make that screw fall off.
@@CautiousCrow Robertson is less probe to rounding. I find Torx tend to wear down faster given the many fine machined points of contact. If you use the right size Robertson you will never cam out
Every type screw has its disadvantages, including Robertson.
@@jamese9283 True, but Robertson has one quality the others don't have: you can easily renew the screwdriver tip. Robertsons are slightly tapered so if the driver wears grind a bit off the end and now it fits good as new.
@@jeffreyesguitar5129 , if you're using non-magnetic stainless steel deck screws and similar, magnetic bit holders and socketed screwdrivers don't work any better! But yes, Robertson screws in general are terrific, and I prefer them over Torx. Note that Makita makes a handy dandy little hollow, bullet-shaped magnet that slides over the shaft of your screwdriver or 1/4" hex drive bit and adds extra magnetic grip. These work really well for holding screws of all types. I've never used a Robertson screwdriver on electrical outlet screws, but a #1 does seem a little small for the job. I wish it was a #2.
I use the Milwaukee 1000V insulated ECX screwdriver. It comes in a set of 3, the other 2 drivers are slotted and Phillips. I love my ECX, it turns tighter, and the driver never slips off the screw
Same i bought the same set and I love that screw driver. Never used one before buying that set.
Got a link?
@@kalijasin hone depot sells a 3 set of 1000v insulated. A slotted a Phillips and the hybrid
This is written so well it could be an ad lol
@@Incipiwav no better advertisement than a happy user.
I recently assembled most of a wooden swing set using a Phillips screwdriver on that type of screw, until it dawned on me that I could use a square bit. What a difference!
i just use my hands
Just discovered this channel! Great work, and thank you! instantly subbed!
I think every type of screw everywhere should be a TORX head screw so you can us TORX screw drivers. They give far far stronger and better grip than any other type I have ever used.
You’re not wrong
That’s funny just had a fellow worker tell me the button head torx was a half size metric Allen 🤪. I was hoping he was kidding but he fought it until the drill bits came out……I gave him a torx25……
When I am coronated, King of the world. My first order if business will be banning straight slot screwdrivers.
Torx is good, but I've also never been disappointed with Robertson.
@@davepalmer7987 I don't like slotted screws but I like flat screwdrivers as they are versatile for more than just screws.
Damn, I've been doing it all wrong. Thanks so much for introducing me to the Robertson bit and the ECX. I've never known those existed. I've just used a Phillips screwdriver for electrical work around the house.
Brilliantly done presentation. You have a calming voice and mesmerizing and authentic eyes. Great work!
Well, I'm a bit late to the party but I ordered a multi-bit and an ECX1 today. Thanks and great article.
Klein makes the same hybrid. Awesome tool. Get the 16 in one with the retractable driver. Hands down perfect
I've been using the Phillips with a slotted to do the final tightening, and I'm glad to see that you suggested that as a good solution without buying new tools. I was surprised just how much more tightening I can do with the slotted screwdriver after it feels tight with the Phillips. My slotted that I use for outlets is a bit wider (more distance from one end of the slot to the other), so it works great for not slipping. It's also extra short, which gives me better control. Having tools that you like really helps.
Phillips was designed to limit the torque and cam out for use on the auto assembly lines.
@@jkbrown5496 Unfortunately, camping out tends to strip the screw head, especially if done with a power tool.
If tou do strip a Phillips head screw that doesn't have a built-in slot, make a slot using a Demel tool with a cutoff wheel.
@@davepaturno4290 as a mechanic with 19 years of experience, you just made me cringe from reminders of new mechanics sheering off 3/8" and 13mm bolts with the 1/2" impact or cracking sockets because they didn't grab the ones designed for said impact... 🤦♀️
@@kraziecatclady Well, I have over 30 years as a mfg engineer and have a degree in mechanical engineering, so I can assure you that I am well aware of metallurgy, tools, and torque. Sadly, I'm not a mechanic but I have worked on a few cars over the years.😏
Great idea- but I’ve been using a Phillips for decades and never had any issue. Seems like a solution in search of a problem. But I’ll still probably switch because it’s a better tool for the job and it’s cheap. Good video. 👍
It is essentially, the screw is designed for a number of different heads.
Green Robbie gives 100% contact eveytime without slippinb
Good advise for the general DIYers out there. I personally prefer to have a proper selection of drivers of most if not all the different tips/bits out there - saves me the aggravation of damaged fastener heads or gouging the surface of the object I’m working on. And those square tips(Robertson)are overly underrated….. just my 2cents
Most Robertson screw drivers are color coded too (at least they are up here in Canada) :
Green is Robertson #1
Red is Robertson #2.
Makes it very easy to spot the right one in the tool box!
There's also a yellow #0 and a black #3 Robertson - they're kind of rare - almost as rare as a phillips #3. I think only once did I find a #0 robertson screw, and only one time did I run into a philips #3 (probably actualy a JIS screw as it was commercial electrical equipment from Japan, but a #3 philips worked fine). Robertson #3 isn't as rare, but you don't see it too often.
@@gorak9000 black robbies are common for larger EMT. never seen a yellow though
I have a yellow Robbie - used mostly for very small wood screws, not for electrical work.
@@pbakai182 Yeah, I know I've had to go fish out the #3 Robertson out of the tool box a few times, but couldn't remember for what. According to wikipedia, not only is there a #0 yellow, but also a #00 orange, and a #4 brown! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson_screw The More You Know [shooting star]
@@gorak9000 There is also an orange #00. I have one in my tool box as a millwright and have used it on really small screws.
I use an R1 for receptacles, switches, etc. and an R2 for operations in the distribution panel. I wasn't aware of the Milwaukee ECX drivers. They look great. Thanks for the tip.
BTW I have sets of gunsmith-grade screwdrivers that are far superior to common ones. The flat-blade drivers are hollow ground so they are much less likely to slip out than inexpensive ones. One set is from Brownell's, the other from Chapman Tools. I recommend both brands.
I love that Milwaukee screwdriver didn’t know about it! Thanks for the tip!
Old electrician (since retired) here, We didn't have square drives back in the day but relied on a Klein flat blade. That's what we were taught and that's what we used. Fast forward to today I have the Klein # 1 & #2 square drivers for my electrical work and boy do you need that #2 for frozen breaker screws.
Mike you are absolutely correct. I was trained as an electrician’s helper 47 years ago. Worked in the trade for two summers. The electrician took me to the supply house and pointed at the tools I was to buy. One #2 Philips, one small straight bladed screwdriver, one medium straight bladed screwdriver, side cutters, dykes and a 16oz claw hammer. All Klines and cost me a fortune back then.
I'm retired from a fence company where, along with building fences, I installed and trouble shot gate operators and entry control systems. I let the screw head tell me what kind of driver to use. Most were square. Some were phillips/slotted in which case I used the phillips. Slotted drivers are good for prying parts apart.😁
Been around electrical since the early 80's. Worked with electricians many many times since then and this is the FIRST time I've ever seen this. Have seen ET's use a Phillips and then follow up with the straight, but this tip seems like the proper way to go. Strange, I've had them in my tool box for 30 years and never used them....
Phillips followed by straight is my technique.
I have used the #1 Robertson for years wherever I can. I have been upgrading my switches (again), adding a bunch more smart ones. I took your advice and bought a Milwaukee ECX #1 (HD, 3 piece insulated set), as well as a Klein Hybrid multi-bit (#2 only in the set) - easiest way to get these locally. For the most part, this has been great, but a few comments about my experience so far:
For most wiring devices, the ECX#1 has been great, but there is at least one brand that it won't work on. I don't remember which but I believe it was either Lutron or Leviton.
My panel was updated last year and I needed to swap out a single space breaker for a tandem. The ECX (Hybrid) #2 makes quick work of removing the panel cover, but the Eaton BR breakers are compatible with the ECX #1, not the #2.
As I turn off a circuit, I also try to find the outlets where I used quickwire in the past and switch those to side wire. Thanks to your videos and my own experience with failed outlet connections, I know better now.
Thanks for this outstanding series. You are costing me a little with tool upgrades, lol.
extremely interesting. I've always used the regular or philips, which ever was handy. But now that I see this, I do have one of those little kits around with multiple bits which has the square bits. I'll start using that from now on. Thanks for this tip.
Great video. Oh boy, another tool to put in my electric tool bag. I always use a magnet head screwdriver/tool. I have an electric device that I can use to magnetize my tools. Very pleasant when you have to use the single hand method.
Just ordered a ECX #1 screwdriver. Had no idea they even existed. Thanks!!
We should ALL be using Robertson - it is just a better design and has excellent holding power for regular construction and one-handed operation!
Agreed!
@@skim193 “That metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead and that’s the way I likes it!” -Abe Simpson
All the world really needs is love…….. and a set of Robbies! Green and red are the most popular sizes, but it’s best to have a black and a yellow too. You just sleep better knowing that you are prepared. 😎🇨🇦
@@skim193 Oh, you mean Pozidriv screws.
@@bunkerhill4854 😂 that's awesome!
Never thought of using a Robertson for outlets. I use them a lot for my travel trailer screws.
Yes, I have used a #1 square drive for years. I have several in my shop and tool box. I have a tough time remembering where they are when I need one. Bob
I was first introduced to the Robertson in woodworking. Kreg screws use the #2 Robertson. I think the #1 Robertson is the best for electrical devices. I have the Milwaukee ECX and it doesn't fit deeply enough into the screw and because of this you can't apply the torque required. The ECX beats both the flat blade and Philips but not the Robbie.
I once built a ground level patio deck for some friends just across the border in Vermont. When I started to assemble the deck , using Coated Deck screws from Canadian Tire, they were amazed that these even existed! They had never seen a Robertson screw, never mind a Robertson Screwdriver.! After they saw how much easier it was to load and torque into the wood, I had more than a few of them get me to “smuggle” in the Canuck contraband. 👍🇨🇦
Down here, we call them "Allen Wrenches" (or at least the little metal tools to turn screws with square holes). We also have drill bits that fit those, too. You frequently also see them (albeit it larger sizes) on office chairs, if you buy one that you gotta assemble at home. The only difference is that they don't have the slot for a flathead screwdriver, it's just a square hole with an octagon head for a ratchet socket.
@@Dhalin Alllen and Robertson are not the same.
@@Dhalin Allen wrenches have a hexagonal, not square, cross-section.
@@TorontoLS Weird. I've seen them with square bits too.
@@Dhalin Allen wrenches are hexagonal socket wrenches.
For an electrician, time is money. When plugging and switching devices, a #1 Roberts in a 18V or 12V drill is so much faster than anything else. I tried that ECX bit in my drill and it just took too long to line up the bit with screw head. After about 10 min I went back to the #1 Roberts.
But the power of the battery drill can strip the thread and they are heavy and the battery goes flat often
@@d.k.1394 I actually use a 12 V brushless Milwaukee drill driver with a 1/4 inch quick release chuck. The drill has a great clutch and I can set the clutch so that it doesn't over tighten and strip out the screw heads. 2 fully charged 2.0 batteries gets me through the day no problem.
Drill is the way to go. Especially screwing outlet to box. You just need a feel for it. You need a new drill if you run out of battery doing outlets.
This. A few years back I bought one of these bits when I saw it on a rack a tiers bit display.
Talk about disappointment.
Thanks. I have a lot of screw driver bits but never knew how to use them. So many odd shapes that don't seem to fit anything I work with. I had no idea one screw head could receive multiple tools.
I enjoy watching your channel I am a huge fan of the multi driver I use both Klien and Greenlee for over ten years I also carry the Greenlee square drives mostly for panels work
I've always used Philips, but I've always had a flat-head, if I needed it.
I knew about Robertson in general, but I didn't know they were commonly used for outlets -- I need to look at those screw heads more closely!
The ECX looks nice, and I'll see if I can find some bits for that for use in my multi-driver.
Thanks!
Robertson fasteners are much more common in Canada than they are in the USA. Robertson, the inventor and original manufacturer, was Canadian and set up his operation there. Due to industrial politics, most U.S. manufacturers adopted Phillips screws instead of Robertsons (the Robertson design actually predated Phillips, star drives (such as Torx), and virtually all the others except the slot-headed screws).
@@censusgary -- I've known about the history of Robertson drive for years, but what I was not aware of is that they are commonly used on light switches. Maybe I haven't looked at enough light switches in the last few years....
@@shubinternet In Canada, you ALWAYS see robertsons on "commodity" electrical devices (outlets, switches, most breakers, panels). Been that way for at least 2 decades, if not 4.
@@fromagefrizzbizz9377 -- whereas I live in the US (well, Texas) and this is a new thing for me to see on the outlets down here.
Much appreciated! Thanks!
@@shubinternet took you long enough, Robertson’s were invented in 1908! 🤪
As my dad (a professional civil engineer) used to say, Phillips screws should be outlawed and selling flat drive screws should be a capitol crime punishable by death 🤪
In Canada the only “commodity” Phillips screws you see are drywall screws. Phillips and flat are more often seen in specialty stuff, some smaller bolts and brass. Allen heads have always been around. Torx is making big inroads now, especially in wood screws, and after driving 10’s of thousands of Robertsons, my new bulk purchases are always torx, and I’m not alone in that.
Hey! I just discovered your videos a few weeks ago and have watched quite a few of them now. The very first one I watched was one where you mentioned using the Milwaukee ECX - I had never seen this before. It's a game changer!!! I went that same afternoon to my local hardware store but they did not carry it, so I found one on Amazon and received it the next day. The one I got is actually a Klein 15-in-1 ratcheting that includes the ECX #1 and #2. I am in the middle of replacing all of our outlets and switches and I cannot believe how amazingly perfect this bit works - for the past 20 years or so I have been using a combo of Phillips and flathead to get best results.
***Bonus: it ALSO is perfect for doorknob screws!
THANK YOU for introducing me to my new favorite tool!!!
Awesome, thanks for the feedback Beth. I didn't know about the doorknob tip 👍
Do you have a link?
@@EverydayHomeRepairs - well the #1 combo bit was perfect for all the doorknob replacements I just did at my daughter's new house, but they weren't Schlage or Kwikset (I will provide an update if/when I find out the brand) - I just changed a few knobs at my house and they were just straight Phillips. I do wiring far more than doorknobs so doesn't matter much. I love ratcheting drivers and having lots of bits to swap out and this particular handle is super comfortable for me and the bit storage in the handle does NOT unscrew while using! - so I'm still in love with it :)
Excellent presentation, very exacting and it shows. It does matter and thank you for the comparisons. Your right on the Spot. 💪🙏
I bought a #1 Robertson screw driver at Canadian Tire in Winnipeg and put it in my electrical tool bag. I use it for any and all work on electrical outlets since it doesn't slip out of the screw like slotted or Phillips head screw drivers. I also have #1,#2, and #3 Robertson bits for another screwdriver I own that has interchangeable bits.
Being Canadian, I have all 5 Robertson driver sizes in multiple shaft lengths. Most of the screw types sold in hardware stores are Robertson heads. I throw away any supplied Phillips screws that come with purchased items. But I learned something new - the ECX driver. If I needed to change many outlets, the price is nothing. Thank you.
if you need to change many outlets, get a hybrid tip for your cordless. your wrists will thank you.
They also make it much easier to tighten the screw for the hot lead down on a circuit breaker, and is less likely to slip which is helpful if you are wiring inside a hot panel.
This is great advice, slotted screw drivers are of a typical ratio width over thickness, I be surprised if you can readily find a wide thin blade. I have been puzzled to these screws having background in the UK. Now it makes sense, one aspect to consider are those often scenarios where leads are too short, it’s all of a tangle and your trying to capture that difficult connection. The proper driver will make an enormous difference.
If you look into specialty type screwdriver bit sets, such as a gunsmithing set, you can find wide and very thin blades for slotted screws.
The entire point of an ecx screw head is that it accepts multiple screwdriver tips. Every which one is listed to put out more torque than the termination is listed for.
Also never heard of those ecx bits until a few years ago when I saw one made by ideal. On the other hand that screw head has been in service for ages….
Also the best tool for the job is a torque screwdriver especially if you’re a homeowner who doesn’t know what you’re doing.
Okey and I think that is, not so bright in todays world. Torx is near perfect. If you don't have the right tool for the application, you don't know what you are doing.
And the truth is, neither of the screwdrivers that it accepts work properly. There should be ONE type which is made it for, and works perfectly with!
If someone doesn't have a flat, or PH or PZ screwdriver, then it might be better to avoid touching the work.
But if you have all of them, but none of them works propery, nah, that's annoying!
Btw. I always use a flat screwdriver for these universal crap (although not that improperly sized, like in the video).
Robertson is pretty much rare in Europe. Most kits have PZ, PH, TX, Hex, Flat, but only one of my bit sets have a few square ones.
Apart from that, the recommendation is good, because it works on some screws. But it really shouldn't have been imported in the EU, if the matching screwdriver is rare. Should be Torx instead, if not PH/PZ/Flat...
I recently started working in electronic testing field after graduating with a physics degree. There is a lot about electrical work that I don't know about! We use a lot of those kind of screws at work, so I will have to look and see if we have any Robertson drivers at work. I've been using a Phillips or flathead this whole time because I didn't know there was any other options!
Unless you're changing sockets and lamp switches in the US/CA there's no reason to use them.
Great "degree"...
@@dongleberry4397 you're saying physics is not degree worthy?
why did you choose that job? physics degree is overqualified
I've used a no. 1 square drive for years. No slipping and you can really tighten those terminals. Far superior to Phillips and slotted.
Allen and Torx are pretty common here in the U.S. now, I’m not sure why that they don’t utilize those for electrical applications. I agree though the square drivers are really good too.
Philips and slotted are pretty much tied for the worst. I hate 'em both. Give me square, -allen/hex,- or torx any day.
EDIT: Disregard hex, another comment reminded me of people rounding them out by using the wrong size, since they come in both SAE and metric measurements. No thanks, don't want to deal with any of that after some clown was there before me using the wrong size.
I've always used Phillips screwdrivers. I hate slotted screws and don't buy products or equipment that use them.
I've never heard of ECX or Robertson before today, but I'm definitely gonna buy a set of both next time I'm at Lowe' s Depot!
As a homeowner I do not have specialty ECX screwdriver and I may get one as I was wiring things around and will be doing more during renos. However the Robertson(square drive) is perfect for the job and you use No 1 for the outlet wiring and No 2 for the wiring ground to the electrical box and also tightening the clamps for wire coming to the electrical box. RObertson is all you need for electrical work. (With the exception of the cover plates, damn those slotted screws)
EDIT: I just realized that Canadians also have superior clamping in electrical boxes, its isnide the box so you can always adjust it instead of on the outside edge. And the screw is thick Robertson drive.
The ECX has been fantastic and definitely my go to for circuit breakers especially. You won't go back after using one, especially if you fully understand that the amount of torque applied determines the current the circuit can safely carry and keeping those connections cool under heavy loads. Extremely Important and often ignored!
Right. With any of the 4 kinds, I can torque any of them more than they should be, but an ecx bit on a ratchet limited on T handle gets it perfect every time.
@@ptx3914 Hell yeah, now that's how to do it. I use one of those T handle ratchets with the torque set so I would quit tearing up hose clamps over tightening them!
I have an electrician friend who said he would quit the trade if he had to work in the US with Philips...there is absolutely no better tip for wiring than Robertson (not withstanding the very specialized tip used here)...we Canadians love Robertson but it baffles us as to why the US hasn't adopted them.
They love to be "different" lol.
It is because of a licensing dispute between Robertson and the Ford motor company way back in the day
we yanks do use a fair percentage of square drive, but it has its own weaknesses. it will actually strip screw heads more effectively than anything else, and somehow I've had robertson screws strip out and still had to use pliers to get the bit loose from the stripped screw. phillips cams out easier than robertson, but it usually doesn't strip as badly so it can be backed out and replaced. torx grips amazingly well, but stainless screws will fall off the tip, and every size screw uses a different size driver.
As a canadian that's now in the US, Robertson (well technically "square" drive) shows up here more now as a "specialty screw" - I have a feeling the patent on Robertson must've expired, so now there's no licensing requirement. I use robertson screws on purpose hoping someone after me will run into them and go "WTF?? Security screws?? why the...." :)
@@andymerrett: screws in that kind of wire termination pretty much have to be flathead to have enough surface area for a screwdriver to grip.
I have found the Klein combination tip to be better than the Milwaukee. The problem with the Milwaukee is the square tip is not long enough to actually do anything. The blades of the "flat" tip portion bottom out in the slots before the very small square drive can actually engage.
The Klein tip has a slightly longer square portion.
Either is preferable over a Philips or square drive IMO
I always wondered why the screws on electrical outlets looked rounded out. Now it all makes sense. It even makes more sense as to why when I've seen electricians who use a #2 phillips head on an impact driver, strip the screws out.
I agree that the Philips doesn't give much torque, so I follow it up with a 1/4" flat head (Craftsman), always in my tool belt.
I do this too.
Those US wallsocket looks pretty scary in comparison to the European Schuko -Dutch and -German 230VAC wallsocket with push-in terminals for solid core wires...no screwdriver needed.
US wall sockets also have push-in terminals as well as screw-on terminals.
Is that hybrid tool available at Home Depot or Lowe's? BTW, I use phillips drivers.
LOL, I have ECX drivers in my case. They came as a kit. I never thought much about them. I'm in Canada so we always use the Robbie or Square head 1 or 2 drivers. Now I'm going to try the Milwaukee speciality drivers.
I have been around the electrical business for 50 years and did not know about square drive or ECX screwdrivers fitting the receptacle screws. Thank you for this valuable information.
I'm shocked 😂 at that outlet, exposed terminals just aren't allowed in the UK. If you but a set of vde screwdrivers, you get all the correct ones