I learned a lot, plus seen some new roads to go traveling on.. That last ride from Champion and out onto M95 answered a question I had for a while... lol
I’m still amazed looking at old rail maps just how many little spurs and sidings were scattered all over the place…and you’re finding them. Another great video!
Love comments like yours!! Yep, more coming. Problem is I keep going out and shooting more stuff instead of processing what I already have. So I have a good pipeline coming.
I just drove through there and was shocked to see how many old hoppers and box cars were just sitting out there. I didn't think those rails had been used in years. Great history! Thank you!
Very interesting. There's some old trackage that's been mostly removed and completely abandoned for decades now in my stomping grounds that would be fun to explore. One can still see most of the roadbed from Google maps. That's fun stuff.
Thanks for the history of the area. I snowmobile on those trails in the winter so I know the area well and often think what it must’ve been like when those rails were laid.
Ever think about doing a video of the old Shawano Sub? I live along the old line in Lily and believe it or not there is a lot of history to the line. Sad it was taken out by the WC in 01!
Great video! Greg is a wealth of info. He should consider writing a book so his information and memories of the area aren't lost to time. Keep up the good work and thank you once again for taking the time to document and share this video. Much appreciated.
Wow! Perfect video and history lesson ! Thanks, guys, for posting ! I worked as a vendor at Republic, mine fresh out of high school, Wabco haul trucks, and Detroit Diesel engines I can still visualize the Milwaukee covered wagons..... back in 1976....
I wish I was able to find some shots of the railroads serving the mine. I suppose maybe the Milw Road Hist Society could have helped but at some point you just have to draw the line and produce the video.
As someone who spends a lot of time out at Sawyer lake, was really cool to now know more of the history behind the rail lines there. Thanks for making this!
Thank you, KillerBee, for this great historical video on the Escanaba & Lake Superior Railroad's line from Channing, Michigan to the abandoned Republic Mine and on to Champion, Michigan. I enjoyed going along with you and Greg as both followed the now unused line from Channing to Champion, Michigan with a stop at the Republic Mine. I enjoyed Greg's historical comments and the maps that you included to show us the railroads that served the Republic Mine when it was in operation. Please keep putting together these historical videos on the railroads of Upper Michigan. (Posted on 22 November 2024 at 1351 CST.)
It was a total unexpected coincidence that the train came along when Greg and I were there finishing up. Considering they only run twice a week it was quite fortuitous.
I'm surprised some one/company has never recycled the rails on some of those long abandoned lines. Even if for whatever reason some of those old roadbeds were used again it would seem highly unlikely those rails would be used. Great video with the history. I'm a "troll" living well south of the bridge in southern MI. Used to deer hunt in the UP and love all parts of it. At this point of my life I don't get up there much anymore. But maybe with retirement coming soon I can change that.
@@killerbee6310 Yes, I am aware of how some of that procedure works. I was mainly thinking of the oldest of those branches that are completely returned to nature, and that if for some reason they would want to bring them back to life they would prob have to use newer heavier rail and of course regrading, new ties, ballast and what not. I was thinking that who ever the owner is that they might be able to make some profit by scrapping the old rail seeing how it is highly unlikely that roadbed will ever be used for railway again. Do you mean that if the rails were tore out the owner would somehow forfeit his rights to the right of way, or something of that nature?
Interesting local history. Back in the day there was very little thought given to conservation or preservation. The area was denuded of its minerals and the big trees were clear cut. What’s left is left.
My son, grandson and I snowmobiled into republic several years back, it looked like a winter picture post card of a small town, had dinner at the resturant, even had Pannu Kakku for dessert.
There are so manmy abandoned branch lines and spurs here in west virginia and manny goney now and just rail trails or rightof ways from all the minning
Excellent video. Combing historic photos and Greg connecting the dots from the past to the present. Amazing how such busy areas become abandoned and nature taking over the right of way. Good job!! 👍🇺🇲
15:23 It was definitely 1928. According to CCI Annual Reports, the first Republic Mine (underground) stopped hoisting ore on May 21, 1928, and salvage started on that date. The pumps were shut down on June 15th of that year.
Ya, most of what I saw was 1928 but I also found 1926 in a reputable source. That is the problem with doing historical stuff - you run into a lot of conflicting information. Thank you for validating.
I used to rabbit hunt on at that spot on the grade when I was a kid. This would be about 1990 or so, and though I think there was no maintenance happening, the grade was still clear of trees and brush.
My first encounter with a switch point lock was on MT 1 in North Platte for the switch to enter the Van Yard. I’d forget it was there every time! There still is one in South Beloit.
It's hard for me to believe they left so much steel behind when they abandon or sell it to a scrapper. In my area in Mckean county Penn we had many railroads but no rails left behind but many road beds and the road in front of my house was a railroad grade and my abstract reflects that as the original survey starts from the middle of B B & S railroad it is now state route 646
Are the iron ore deposits exhausted at this point in those areas or just not economical to extract at the current time or being held in some kind of strategic reserve status?
21:36 I wish you elaborated on why the ICC stuck it's bureaucratic nose into the Milw/LSI interchange operation. Any explanation would be appreciated. Thanks.
The DSS&A actually complained to the ICC as the interchange between the LS&I and the Milw Road was going to drain traffic away from them. This triggered the investigation. The ICC concluded that the interchange track had been illegally constructed without proper authorization and ordered them to cease using it.
Hey Killer Bee, another great video. When starting a shortline, is there any way to get certified as a Locomotive engineer and conductor so you can do one of those jobs. If you could be the locomotive engineer while someone else works as conductor I feel like that could save a lot of money in the long run compared to hiring two separate people.
Dear sir..I have a question for you regarding a rail line, and it's history with a quite old logging camp where I have a cabin way back in the woods. Ok..What I do know is that it's the Haywire Grade that I know crosses M94 South to Manistique from around Shingleton, which is between Munising and Seney. Our "trail" is what's known as the "Hickey creek truck trail". I know it as the Fournier Trail. The locals pronounce it as " Da Furrnier trail". During WW2 there was a German POW camp a few miles from my cabin. I own 25 acres that's 7 miles from 94. I have attempted to do research on the logging camp which is abt 150yds from my cabin and there isn't much left unless you knew for a fact that it was a pretty big camp. The old boys said they cut white pine and floated it to Chicago after the big fire there..idk if that's truth or not.. I really want to nail down the history of the logging operation and the Haywire grade. Thank you for your time
The closure in 1981 was "temporary"--that is, there was an understanding that it would only be for a few months to a year and then it would reopen and everyone laid off would be rehired. However, that just...never happened. The mine stayed in that state, with its equipment slowly rusting until CCI finally acknowledged in 2005 that Republic was never going to become an operating mine again. That's when LS&I (a subsidiary of CCI, which owned the mine) formally abandoned the line, pulling up the rails and removing the crossing signals. IIRC, there was some discussion about rehabbing the line before abandonment to haul equipment and ore pellet stockpiles from the mine during demolition, but the line had been unmaintained for so long it would have required a few hundred thousand dollars in repairs, so they just trucked everything out. It was fascinating to see cut up production trucks on lowboys that were basically rustbuckets because the guys just walked away from them in 1981, expecting they'd be back in a few months so they were exposed to the elements with little preservation work done.
Many States charge taxes on rail lines until such time that they physical tear up / remove the ties and rail….. I’m guessing the state or county owns the land as why you there is so much rail and ties left behind …. They can get away with it where as private owner would get hit with paying additional taxes
Railroad property tax is calculated in an odd way in some states. In one state, it has something to do with the number of carloads handled. I would often go to our tax guy and try to pin him down how much tax we were paying annually on a particular line segment. He would always say "it's not figured like how you think it would be...." So the tax amount on any given line segment wasn't always its own number that would make people think about it.
Keep these railway lines away from those rails to trails movement Therefore, revive the line for passengers I said that as I am getting tired of hiking
Morning coffee and a RUclips railroad history adventure. It doesn't get much better than this.
Ah, glad to know I made your day.
Love the abandoned rail videos thanks you
Thank you. Will do another one in the spring.
Great video. I didnt know about this line until today.
Well, I try to educate and entertain so hopefully I accomplished both.
I learned a lot, plus seen some new roads to go traveling on.. That last ride from Champion and out onto M95 answered a question I had for a while... lol
We weren't sure if we could drive on the trails but another vehicle was doing it too. When in doubt - go for it.
I’m still amazed looking at old rail maps just how many little spurs and sidings were scattered all over the place…and you’re finding them. Another great video!
Thanks Randy. I know the main stuff but Greg has pointed out to me many of the obscure branches.
I love your videos, your content rock's it's different, and not like everyone else, please keep them videos coming
Love comments like yours!! Yep, more coming. Problem is I keep going out and shooting more stuff instead of processing what I already have. So I have a good pipeline coming.
I just drove through there and was shocked to see how many old hoppers and box cars were just sitting out there. I didn't think those rails had been used in years. Great history! Thank you!
Glad I inspired you to explore also. Thank you for watching and your interest!!
Very interesting. There's some old trackage that's been mostly removed and completely abandoned for decades now in my stomping grounds that would be fun to explore. One can still see most of the roadbed from Google maps. That's fun stuff.
Railroad archeology is fun, yes.
Pretty cool looking back at Esconaba growth cycles and the detail is pretty amazing. The dating on the track and ties amazing stuff
Yes, I had never heard of the clock dating method before. And to then find two ties in a row that were stamped was fantastic.
Thanks for the history of the area. I snowmobile on those trails in the winter so I know the area well and often think what it must’ve been like when those rails were laid.
Ya, it's nuts what all existed once and is now gone.
Nice history on this area. Lots of information for turn of the twentieth century modeling! Thanks for the links to source photos and the maps. DJK
My pleasure. Glad you found it of use.
UP looks stunning in the fall, and enjoyed the history lesson too. There's always something cool about forgotten rails in the woods.
There is plenty more to cover so keep an eye out for more
This is some great information! Thanks both of you for sharing your knowledge.
Greg is a wealth of knowledge. I just tell him to start talking and film away....
That was pretty cool. Thanks to Greg for passing along his knowledge, and thanks, KB for posting !
Our pleasure. We like doing these.
Ever think about doing a video of the old Shawano Sub? I live along the old line in Lily and believe it or not there is a lot of history to the line. Sad it was taken out by the WC in 01!
Not yet. There are some other lines that are on my radar to grab Greg and go cover.
Wow, Greg's knowledge is priceless. What a great history lesson. Thanks for sharing and educating us.
He likes to share his knowledge. He is great to work with.
I love railroad history, especially in the UP. Thanks for sharing!!
There is an incredible amount of RR history in da u.p., especially where all the mining was. A lot of "what was". So, more to come...eventually....
Great video! Greg is a wealth of info. He should consider writing a book so his information and memories of the area aren't lost to time. Keep up the good work and thank you once again for taking the time to document and share this video. Much appreciated.
You are indeed welcome. We both enjoy doing this and there will be more.
Wow! Perfect video and history lesson ! Thanks, guys, for posting ! I worked as a vendor at Republic, mine fresh out of high school, Wabco haul trucks, and Detroit Diesel engines I can still visualize the Milwaukee covered wagons..... back in 1976....
I wish I was able to find some shots of the railroads serving the mine. I suppose maybe the Milw Road Hist Society could have helped but at some point you just have to draw the line and produce the video.
Pretty country too really nice video thanks for taking the time and effort. ❤❤❤
I enjoyed sharing our travels.
What a cool video. So many former rail lines. I travelled the UP a lot from 1988 - 2000 and ran across so many.
There is a lot of "what was" up there to do yet.
As someone who spends a lot of time out at Sawyer lake, was really cool to now know more of the history behind the rail lines there. Thanks for making this!
Excellent - glad to know it resonated with you!!
Thank you, KillerBee, for this great historical video on the Escanaba & Lake Superior Railroad's line from Channing, Michigan to the abandoned Republic Mine and on to Champion, Michigan. I enjoyed going along with you and Greg as both followed the now unused line from Channing to Champion, Michigan with a stop at the Republic Mine. I enjoyed Greg's historical comments and the maps that you included to show us the railroads that served the Republic Mine when it was in operation. Please keep putting together these historical videos on the railroads of Upper Michigan. (Posted on 22 November 2024 at 1351 CST.)
Thank you and yes, I will indeed. Greg and I have plans for next spring.
Killer Bee I love these videos, love the maps, history and old photos, great stuff!!
Thank you. It is easy to get carried away making these, I have to control myself. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Very cool ending with the CN engines . Many thanks !
It was a total unexpected coincidence that the train came along when Greg and I were there finishing up. Considering they only run twice a week it was quite fortuitous.
Thanks again for an informative and interesting video, so sad to see how UP railroads have disappeared and the history they were a part of.
Ya, the decline of mining and the railroads up there seem to go hand in hand.
Just love these history videos. I am some what shocked that all that valuable steel rail and rail cars are left behind.
ELS doesn't seem to monetize potential scrap.
Excellent job, Brian! And many thanks to Greg as well.
Thank you for your comments and for watching. More coming - once I find the time!!
I'm surprised some one/company has never recycled the rails on some of those long abandoned lines. Even if for whatever reason some of those old roadbeds were used again it would seem highly unlikely those rails would be used.
Great video with the history. I'm a "troll" living well south of the bridge in southern MI. Used to deer hunt in the UP and love all parts of it. At this point of my life I don't get up there much anymore.
But maybe with retirement coming soon I can change that.
Technically I do not believe that the lines are abandoned, just inactive. So the rails cannot be harvested.
@@killerbee6310 Yes, I am aware of how some of that procedure works. I was mainly thinking of the oldest of those branches that are completely returned to nature, and that if for some reason they would want to bring them back to life they would prob have to use newer heavier rail and of course regrading, new ties, ballast and what not. I was thinking that who ever the owner is that they might be able to make some profit by scrapping the old rail seeing how it is highly unlikely that roadbed will ever be used for railway again.
Do you mean that if the rails were tore out the owner would somehow forfeit his rights to the right of way, or something of that nature?
Amazing info! Thanks to both of you!!!!!!
Well thank you Nancy. We enjoy doing these and Greg gives me soooo many leads for cool information.
Interesting local history. Back in the day there was very little thought given to conservation or preservation. The area was denuded of its minerals and the big trees were clear cut. What’s left is left.
I was just up to the Missabe Range and that area makes Republic look like childs play....open pit mines 3 miles by 2 miles....
Very much enjoyed the railroad business history lesson.
And Greg and I are happy to provide it. Thank you for watching and commenting.
Love the history up there. Thank you.
And there is a lot of history!!
Most excellent!!
My son, grandson and I snowmobiled into republic several years back, it looked like a winter picture post card of a small town, had dinner at the resturant, even had Pannu Kakku for dessert.
Yes, I can picture that scene now....
There are so manmy abandoned branch lines and spurs here in west virginia and manny goney now and just rail trails or rightof ways from all the minning
Greg’s a treasure trove of info. Thanks for posting, and I look forward to more.
Yes, it is fun partnering up with him.
Excellent video. Combing historic photos and Greg connecting the dots from the past to the present. Amazing how such busy areas become abandoned and nature taking over the right of way. Good job!! 👍🇺🇲
Thank you for watching and commenting. I was lucky to hook up with Greg and tap into his knowledge and passion.
I used to fish in the Michigamme reservoir in the 90's. Boy time flies.
Thank you Brian and Greg for doing this! Very informative and enjoyable!
You are welcome. We both enjoy doing it. We have more planned.
I absolutely LOVE THIS VIDEO
THANK YOU!! I appreciate the validation that people like my efforts.
Very nostalgic video!
Well thank you.
Nicely done !
Thank you for watching and commenting.
This is a really interesting series. Thank you for investigating and sharing!
It is fun to do, the researching and production and going out and seeing it.
Great video
Glad you found it and enjoyed it. More to come....
Great video, thanks for the information.
Glad to hear you enjoyed it.
15:23 It was definitely 1928. According to CCI Annual Reports, the first Republic Mine (underground) stopped hoisting ore on May 21, 1928, and salvage started on that date. The pumps were shut down on June 15th of that year.
Source: archives.nmu.edu/CCI/Annual%20Reports/Annual%20Report_Mining/Annual%20Report_Mining_MS86100_1999_1928/Part%204_Other%20Michigan%20Mines.pdf
Ya, most of what I saw was 1928 but I also found 1926 in a reputable source. That is the problem with doing historical stuff - you run into a lot of conflicting information. Thank you for validating.
Nice job!!
Thank you !!
Awesome stuff.
Thank you for watching - much appreciated.
Great video! Keep them coming.
We will, we will. Eventually....
Thanks again for this documentary. So basically ELS has storage cars "trapped" on that line north of Sawyer Lake??
Yes but I think they could get them out if they had to. They also have a few really "trapped" on the Crivitz to Menominee line.
At 13:04, evidence that KillerBee was on Honey Bee Lane !
I used to rabbit hunt on at that spot on the grade when I was a kid. This would be about 1990 or so, and though I think there was no maintenance happening, the grade was still clear of trees and brush.
Glad you picked up on that-LOL
My first encounter with a switch point lock was on MT 1 in North Platte for the switch to enter the Van Yard. I’d forget it was there every time! There still is one in South Beloit.
Sounds like this one was a rarity up there.
Oof.. to see the abandoned lines is disappointing. But the history lesson was great! Thanks for putting this together!
You are welcome. Unfortunately, there are more abandoned lines - and inactive lines - to feature yet.
Thank You for providing all the info. Much appreciated.
And the info was just the tip of the iceberg. But ya gotta draw the line somewhere or the project never gets out the door....
Great stuff.
I do not know...was hoping somebody more knowledgeable on this would jump in....
Nice job! Any documentary on logging rr mentioned..?
I'm 67 and remember as a kid wooden box cars.
yep...and friction bearings....
It's hard for me to believe they left so much steel behind when they abandon or sell it to a scrapper. In my area in Mckean county Penn we had many railroads but no rails left behind but many road beds and the road in front of my house was a railroad grade and my abstract reflects that as the original survey starts from the middle of B B & S railroad it is now state route 646
Actually the line is technically not abandoned, so the rail has to be left in place.
I love it,
More coming...soon....someday...
very interesting .
Are the iron ore deposits exhausted at this point in those areas or just not economical to extract at the current time or being held in some kind of strategic reserve status?
Would have loved to be in the car for this journey Brian.
So hopefully this is the next best thing....
21:36 I wish you elaborated on why the ICC stuck it's bureaucratic nose into the Milw/LSI interchange operation. Any explanation would be appreciated. Thanks.
The DSS&A actually complained to the ICC as the interchange between the LS&I and the Milw Road was going to drain traffic away from them. This triggered the investigation. The ICC concluded that the interchange track had been illegally constructed without proper authorization and ordered them to cease using it.
@@killerbee6310 Huh...interesting, thank you.
Hey Killer Bee, another great video. When starting a shortline, is there any way to get certified as a Locomotive engineer and conductor so you can do one of those jobs. If you could be the locomotive engineer while someone else works as conductor I feel like that could save a lot of money in the long run compared to hiring two separate people.
Shoot me a return e-mail so we can chat that way. brianbuchanan2032@gmail.com
12:01 small correction, it’s pronounced WISconsin not WESconsin.
Yoopers talking.
not the first time someone has pointed this out....
Please check for ticks. I got Lyme in the early 80’s, not diagnosed until about 30 years later in 2013.
Yes, thank you. I do indeed check.
Dear sir..I have a question for you regarding a rail line, and it's history with a quite old logging camp where I have a cabin way back in the woods. Ok..What I do know is that it's the Haywire Grade that I know crosses M94 South to Manistique from around Shingleton, which is between Munising and Seney. Our "trail" is what's known as the "Hickey creek truck trail". I know it as the Fournier Trail. The locals pronounce it as " Da Furrnier trail". During WW2 there was a German POW camp a few miles from my cabin. I own 25 acres that's 7 miles from 94. I have attempted to do research on the logging camp which is abt 150yds from my cabin and there isn't much left unless you knew for a fact that it was a pretty big camp. The old boys said they cut white pine and floated it to Chicago after the big fire there..idk if that's truth or not.. I really want to nail down the history of the logging operation and the Haywire grade. Thank you for your time
Would that be the Manistique & Lake Superior R.R. ?
Interesting vid just to piss me off at the end 🤦♂️ ya I know irrational 🤷♂️ but really boils my blood to see CN outside of Trudeau world 😆 ✌️🤙
On the plus side for me, thank you watching to the end! Much appreciated !!
You said the LS&I abandoned their section of track in 2005. If the mine closed in 1981, do you know what they were using it for?
The closure in 1981 was "temporary"--that is, there was an understanding that it would only be for a few months to a year and then it would reopen and everyone laid off would be rehired. However, that just...never happened. The mine stayed in that state, with its equipment slowly rusting until CCI finally acknowledged in 2005 that Republic was never going to become an operating mine again. That's when LS&I (a subsidiary of CCI, which owned the mine) formally abandoned the line, pulling up the rails and removing the crossing signals.
IIRC, there was some discussion about rehabbing the line before abandonment to haul equipment and ore pellet stockpiles from the mine during demolition, but the line had been unmaintained for so long it would have required a few hundred thousand dollars in repairs, so they just trucked everything out. It was fascinating to see cut up production trucks on lowboys that were basically rustbuckets because the guys just walked away from them in 1981, expecting they'd be back in a few months so they were exposed to the elements with little preservation work done.
@CatCube2 thanks for all the details, it's a shame it didn't work out.
So the flood wood box cars will never move again.
They could with a little effort but I believe they are 70-tonners so there would be limited demand for them.
Who owns the trackage now?
ELS still owns up to Republic.
Many States charge taxes on rail lines until such time that they physical tear up / remove the ties and rail….. I’m guessing the state or county owns the land as why you there is so much rail and ties left behind …. They can get away with it where as private owner would get hit with paying additional taxes
Railroad property tax is calculated in an odd way in some states. In one state, it has something to do with the number of carloads handled. I would often go to our tax guy and try to pin him down how much tax we were paying annually on a particular line segment. He would always say "it's not figured like how you think it would be...." So the tax amount on any given line segment wasn't always its own number that would make people think about it.
Keep these railway lines away from those rails to trails movement
Therefore, revive the line for passengers
I said that as I am getting tired of hiking
Except I don't see there being many potential passengers up there?....
Great history.Sad to see the tracks in this state.Progress.
Well, the real story is there is no business for them.