Lumix Camera HDMI Latency issue (including S5II)
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- Опубликовано: 31 июл 2024
- Recently there are quite a few discussions about the Lumix S5II's HDMI latency especially after watching @geraldundone 's very informative Lumix S5II review:
• Panasonic S5 II Review...
And it is true that Panasonic Lumix camera's HDMI output latency can be quite noticeable. In this video, i tested the HDMI latency using a pre-production Panasonic Lumix S5II and compared the results against the Sony A7IV. And I'll also share with you some tips about how to minimise the latency.
Camera gear I used to shoot this video:
Panasonic Lumix S5II | Lumix S 24mm f/1.8
Synco D2 Microphone: link.syncoaudio.com/Richard-D2
Instagram: / photo_by_richard
My Miniature Photography Instagram: / toycapturer
Facebook: / photobyrichard
0:00 Introduction
2:02 Zero HDMI Latency?
2:41 HDMI Latency Test Method and Setup
6:21 Panasonic Lumix S5II HDMI Latency Test Results and How to Improve the Latency
11:11 Final Thoughts 
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Great work, Richard! 👍
Thanks for watching the video Gerald! :)
I'm really proud of my little dinosaur animation 🦾 but anyway it was supposed to be a quick test after watching a few discussions on Facebook but end up took me 2 full days to do all the testing, check the results and create this video 😂. I hope you guys find this video useful!
Thank U very much for detailed information.
Wow! Amazing in-depth testing! Great job!
Thank you Glen!
Thanks for making this!
Very well done Richard, well done.
Thank you Hassan :)
Thanks for making all these tests Richard! Great insight. Interesting to see how much HDMI audio affects the lag.
.... 5:50 lol
I really have no idea why the A7IV overheated so quickly.
Wow! Very thorough. 🌟
Glad you liked it! Was supposed to be a quick test, end up took me 2 full day
Thanks for the tips =, Richard (and Gerald).
Thanks for watching again Marin Real Estate Photography :)
I discovered something else. Turning off lut conversion for hdmi and letting the monitor convert improved the lag also.
i tested on s1 and it doesnt really make a difference sadly.
@@oliverspeiser5930 it does on my S5IIX
what do u mean by letting the monitor convert the lut ? what monitor the one on the camera ?
@creativegreatsvisuals if you are using an external monitor via HDMI, having the monitor receive vlog and letting it apply a preview lut is faster than the camera applying the lut then exporting via HDMI
@@torrel8074 so upload luts to the monitor ? the way I use the luts on s5ii is I record them baked in ..so when viewing on flip out lcd or on camera monitor its "what u see is what u get " as far as image goes ?
GOOOOOOD BIGGGGG JOB! THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Merci à toi pour ces astuces 🙏🏻
Thank you for watching
Very scientific!! Love it. Lumix better fix this. More users = more feedback = more firmware updates
Thank you David! Lumix is usually really good at listening feedback and firmware update. So let's see :)
I really hope they do. This seemed as close to perfect a camera can get for me until I learned about this issue. Any amount of noticeable latency is a dealbreaker for me. With the amount of monitors and transmitters used on sets, the latency will always snowball.
Good breakdown, hope the next camera gets that fixed.
Trini-Media, yes I hope so. This issue has been around for a while and still pretty much the same, that makes me suspect it may not be an easy fix. But then Panasonic engineers have surprised me many times so let's see!
excellent job!!!
unfortunately I have 2 issues
1) I use time code to synchronize my S5 video with my Zoom F8n Pro audio, and time code is not supported at frame rates greater than 30 fps
2) I use the Deity TC-1’s time code on the audio channel from the S5 to my BMD Video Assist monitor for later conversion to metadata with the Tentacle Sync Studio app, replacing the wrong time code metadata written by the monitor arising from the S5’s HDMI latency
I also use synced Deity TC-1 time code to the BNC TC-in on my Zoom F8n Pro, so the metadata based the S5 audio and the metadata in the Zoom F8n will be correctly aligned
👉🏼 therefore using 60 fps and/or disabling HDMI audio from the S5 is not an option for me
Hi Riccardo, I'm scared by this delay and I'm waiting for the lumix s5IIX and I've already spent a lot of money on cine lenses. But this delay and the same as the gh5? With the gh5 at 50fps in 4k I only have a very small delay. Do you think it's the same as gh5 if I use 50fps 4k on s5IIX? Thank you
You're going to be in a pickle if you plan to use this on a production. The HDMI delay is atrocious compared to other cameras (coming from Sony and BMD). One of the main reasons I abandoned Panasonic because they have not addressed their HDMI latency issues.
I've seen some reports of issues with the HDMI feed occasionally being laggy and unusable for a minute or so. Have you experienced this? Thanks!
I had a few intermittent issues in the past, but they were all caused by either doggy connection or HDMI cable not able to handle the data rate
That makes sense! I figured the reports I heard were user error. Thanks for your quality content brother!
I’ll need to test it, but I would bet that it is not the 4k60p, but the APSC crop that improves the latency. Curious if the crop mode would better latency performance in 4k24p and 4k30p as well.
Keen to know your results if you tested it
Great video👍.
LUMIX mentioned that in 30 fps elec shutter mode the camera uses internal compensation to correct rolling shutter. Is that you have noticed or tested while shooting ?
Thank you! Yes I've tested it, check out the result in my review: ruclips.net/video/Y5auV2JC7fc/видео.html (that should be the right timestamp)
@@TheRealRichardWong thanks for your reply 🙏
what is the workflow for recording sound and synching when you dont send sound over HDMI? especially for run and gun?
Record to a dedicated sound recorder and sync with a slate or with timecode if your camera and sound recorder have it.
at least with the s52 and s52x you have 48 fps shooting mode so you could do a 2:1 pulldown and get 24fps footage with sound at a reasonable latency for pulling focus, the only obvious downsides being the apsc crop and the fact that its still a bit slower than the sony.
There must be pretty bad latency with the monitor or even cable as the a74 shouldn't have 180ms latency at 24p and it's usually around 2-3 frames so 130ms. With the Panasonic s1 using the same setup I got anywhere from 240-280ms
just got my x today.. plugged the thing in to HDMI. (4K 24P).. is this a Joke?.. my Original Black Magic 4K had no noticeable latency...Going to turn off the Audio via HDMI to see how it works.. but this is really BS if you ask me..
One of the main reasons I abandoned Panasonic. Went to BMD and never looked back.
This is enough for me to go from incredibly excited about this camera to considering it entirely unusable.
@@bjarkisteinnpetursson9736entirely unusable is an understatement. Using an external monitor for your own viewing is absolutely atrocious, and forget about having an AC pull focus. It’s not gonna happen.
@@tkaz123 Exactly. Dealing with shitty wireless transmitters is already enough of a pain in my ass as a 1st AC.
Could the latency be reduced more by reducing other processes such as autofocus, luts IBIS, etc?
Not that i'm aware of
@@TheRealRichardWong That’s disappointing. I’ll go with the FX30 then.
I wonder if Panasonic allowed us to turn off the camera screen and output to the monitor only would help with the latency? 😅
You can already do this. It won't affect latency.
Turning audio off over hdmi worked as well on the G9ii, massive improvement, from almost an unusable amount of lagg to almost no lagg.
Awesome!
But does this latency affect the recording negatively or is everything captured fine? If there's no loss of data in the video I don't really see why this matters at all.
No it does not impact the quality of the recorded video. But for users who rely on external HDMI display to do time critical task like focus pulling, this impact their workflow.
Try doing manual focus on a walk and talk with a 300ms delay and you will rip your hair out.
hi Richard,
i plan on buying the atomos shinobi for the s5iix. however, the shinobi can only accept a 4k30p signal and not the 4k 60p...but i read that you can change the hdmi output resolution settings to hd 1080p and continue to record 4k60p in camera whilst displaying hdmi output into the shinobi at 1080p....is this possible? i need to know this before i purchase the atomos shinobi.
Hi CS I think it should work. But let me do a test to confirm for you
@@TheRealRichardWong thanks so much 🙏🏼
@@ThePistonPit okay. i haven't got a Shinobi but i have a Feelworld F6Plus which also doesn't support 4k60. (only go up to max 4k30).
When i set the S5II's recording mode to 4k60 and connect to F6plus, the F6plus shows it is connected at 4k30 and works fine. Hope that helps
Thanks Richard… i can only hope the shinobi does the same.
Or is it possible that the s5ii down coverts the hdmi output automatically to display the image to the monitor.?
I think that's what it does as I didn't touch any settings
@Richard Wong is the touch screen on S5 2 more snappier/faster/ more responsive?
hmmm i didn't notice that. But let me give it a try and will let you know
Did a quick test, can't say i notice any difference. but i feel the S5's touch screen is really responsive anyway?
Thank you for replying and testing, it is very much appreciated. very excite abt s5ll
Just got S5ii last week and everything is perfect, except this. I hope I could have watched your video before. Come on Panasonic, it’s 2023 and the HDMI latency on this NEW camera is so obvious comparing to every camera I’ve used in the past (GH5, XT-4, A7C). It’s unavailable to do sound-related live stream with S5ii along with other cams. It’s really frustrated.
If you are shooting with other camera, you could turn off disable the audio output for HDMI and use the audio from other sources instead? It would improve the latency quite a bit
@@TheRealRichardWong Yes, I did. But it still has much more delay than my other cameras. If I use dissolve transition between cameras, it will be quite obvious that the videos are out of sync. And also, because I’m shooting videos of piano performance, the delay on the finger movements is pretty obvious. Just to be clear, I like S5ii very much, and that’s why I’m so upset with this 🥲. By the way thank you for the review videos and all the infos of LUMIX cameras, help me a lot 👍
@@SLSMusic using s5ii : what will happen to sound I record into the Panasonic dmw xlr if I turn off HDMI record output ? whats the benefits of the HDMI REC OUTPUT on?
what do u mean you can do I live steam with other cameras ? what are u using for live steams ecamm and decklink?
what will happen to sound I record into the Panasonic dmw xlr if I turn off HDMI record output ? whats the benefits of the HDMI REC OUTPUT on?
If you don't need to record/use audio from your external HDMI device, you can just turn that output off. It would not affect internal recording
@@TheRealRichardWong what external HDMI devices record audio ?
@creativegreatsvisuals Atmos ninja v, Hollyland mars X (from phone app)..etc
@@TheRealRichardWong is that audio from the monitor better than internal audio on most cameras ?
I don't seem to have that "hdmi rec output" on my S1, is this correct?
I don't have a s1 with me but it should have that option!? Anyone got a s1 can answer this question?
@@TheRealRichardWong sadly I discovered that only the S1 does not have that option for some reason... S1H and S5 have it, maybe Panasonic forgot about adding it :| which sucks.
@@vanraz was looking for that setting too but no dice..
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I wonderered why I never encountered this, but the latency isn’t there when shooting prores RAW on my Ninja V. As soon as I switched to my Shinobi it was obvious.
Great video! I've brought this up before with other reviewers and they don't seem to get the issue. I used my S1H with a monitor for live music concert and literally had to pull it off the montior to cont the shoot. it would be the same for recording a wedding or anything that subject is anything but static. I thought having the monitor would help me with manual focus, sine the S1H (and all Lumix cameras except the new S5) can't "really" auto focus, but due to the latency I couldn't focus on anything. Its ok if the subject is static and the camera is static, but that's not how I shoot. I wound up buying and Canon R5 and use it with a Ninja and it's never been an issue with any fame rate. I hope Lumix will address this, but I doubt it, it's been an issue for a long time across all their cameras (I have and tested this on the GH5 & S1, too). For me, it made using a monitor pointless and frustrating and sadly was the ultimate factor to buy into another system. I still love Lumix and use it for specific shoots, but this (and the autofocus, until recently), made the system unable for most projects.
PS - I did not try the audio trick, but I need audio to sync later. I use the monitor to view and record. I also shoot 24 FPS most of the time and do not want to change my frame rate to adapt to the HDMI issue.
I will want to come back to this topic a bit later and some more testing/research
I also recently purchased a ninja five from my S1H… and tried every trick/ HDMI 2.0 and 2.1 Cable type, I am absolutely disgusted that this was never popularly addressed as an issue… Since Lumix is so often paired with Atomos in their marketing
The latency is so horrible, and simply not “work around aroundable”
This is a topic I know very well. One thing that should be clarified is that while you can measure the lag between lcd and monitor, the lcd itself is lagging. Lag is expressed in frames so lower frame more lag. Why is lag such a big issue with digital cameras? Because they have an evf and lcd. On a video rig you only see what you shoot on the monitor plus all processing happens elsewhere so it is quicker. I have measured my Sony A1 and the lag is same or bigger than the Panasonic MFT. However there is no audio trick to be played. Panasonic should resolve the audio sync issue and then it would be quicker. Instead there is an initial delay due to av sync that kills everything. This can be resolved and should be resolved. As far as I am concerned for time critical use cases like sports and wildlife you need to use the EVF
hey Massimo, yes the camera's LCD is definitely lagging a little bit. I think i can count 3-4 frames in most situations. So that's why in my test, i was comparing the real-life object. vs the final external display, instead of the camera monitor vs external screen. Interesting to know the A1 lag is the same or bigger than the Panasonic MFT. Thanks for sharing that info! :).
And yes i would love to see some changes to reduce this lag in the future, either through firmware or hardware changes.
@@TheRealRichardWong I guess this is S5II? Seems like full frame lag more which I do not fully understand. The LCD should be able to run at 60fps (check in the settings) and then the lag is 1 up to 2 but very short in time. It could be that the S5 readout being slower does not allow the LCD to go quicker
I want to see all autofocus mode specially. Tracking option. Please make all autofocus mode video.
And using sigma L mount lans.
Have you check out my full review? I did a quick tracking mode demo there
@@TheRealRichardWong. I check s5 2 with sigma 35 1.4 lens tracking mode it's not properly work loose autofocus. I have footages
Gerald undone later wrote and clarified that issue ..
yes correct and i mentioned that too at the beginning of the video. But that also is the reason why i created this video as this is something i have been wanting to look a bit deeper into for a while.
@@TheRealRichardWong yes
Using keyword "input lag" for monitor latency, it's easy to find out how to measure it.
Oh awesome, thanks for that. Will look into that
Problems need to be solved and excuses do not give results here, in general, the S 5-2 has become a much better solution for Panasonic engineers .
I'm not a fan on any camera brand but seeing Sony overheating (again) is just pathetic. How can anyone rely on such hardware
The problem is their processor. It’s not powerful enough to offer low hdmi latency AND all their colour processing, af etc. No firmware will fix this unless they disable certain things that people paid for. I had an s5ii and returned it 2 days later and bought a bmpcc6k pro (no hdmi latency perceived) and shortly after an fx30 (no hdmi latency perceived). Shame
Funny,As I'm watching this video. I was just testing my Sony a7IV overheating for I have a long form project coming up. using external dummy battery . I push the camera to record 4k 60p 4.2.2. 10bit (100mbps) HS-Avc. still running after 2hrs without overheating icon coming on. room temp. at 70F. 21.5Cel. turn the high temp record to ON. in the menu
Hi KC, i didn't turn the high temp setting to on, because i was only doing very short recording so completely didn't expect it to overheat. Still not sure what happened. I never have the A7IV overheat so quickly before.
@@TheRealRichardWong do you usually use your A7IV with or without a monitor attached