Use this thread to vote: comment below Dark and Darker or Dungeonborne and then I will continuously tally up the votes (please just comment once only, you can add more context in your message with 'edit' if you would like!) Dark and Darker: 60 Dungeonborne: 7
@@DarkerHeartbeat your as high as a Crack addled kite I played one day of dungeonborne and couldn't even stomach a match of dark and darker since. there's something wrong with yall dark and darker shills the only thing dark and darker has on dungeonborne is more skills and more passive skills and the best part about it is dark and darker is so much up its own metas ass that it's meta or bust so is the variety really even better??? Dungeonborne requires all kinds of different stats to make your character good in dark and darker all you need is move speed and a dagger so yeah get the ironmace monster cock out of your throat dark and darker is a great game but yall be saying shit that is straight up objectively wrong
dungeonborne looks and feels like a mobile game port to me. It's not a bad game it's just hard to really compare it to DnD. it reminds me of how dark and darker mobile looks
@christianlandgrave5796 Damn someone's feelings are hurt. DaD definitely does not feel like a mobile game at all😂 You have complete control of your character and the combat is crisp af. I think you're just mad cause your stuck at Neophyte 😂
@@MickeyDee420yeah sure is a bigger budget title and yet it still looks way worse. Also it's literally made by a company who specializes in making money grab mobile games, hence why DB clearly resembles a mobile game. They tried to take advantage of DaD being off steam but they failed even at that. DaD being made by such a small company is super impressive AND respectable while on the other hand we have the literal opposite with DB.
The real winners are the players? Both of these games are garbage and capitalize on predatory gameplay loops that maximize negative player emotion to increase binge-type player engagement, The real losers are the players who get sucked into these scummy casino tactics and the toxicity and cultiness of the communities reflects that.
@@aFoolsMartyr Nah, the rogues usually go for my ranger friend, but I have been 3-4 shot by rogues before while having 210hp and around 30% pdr on barb a few times.
I think the problem with dungeonborne boils down to this: Dungeonborne is trying to be dark and darker. They aren't trying to make their own unique game in a similar genre with similar mechanics, they're trying to make DaD. They created it when dark and darker wasn't on steam, to try and profit off of that gap in the market. They use the same assets in the same way as dark and darker. Everything they have done besides some minor QOL stuff has been a step or two behind as their devs have to see how it works in dark and darker, then figure out how to duplicate it in DB. These are not the actions of a studio that knows how to make a good game on their own without copying someone else's. These aren't the actions of a studio that cares about whether they are blatantly stealing someone else's ideas or work. These are the actions of a corporation that saw an opportunity to profit off of someone else's misfortune in the cheapest, easiest, and lowest risk way possible. It doesn't matter whether you like the game, because it will only exist while it remains extremely cheap, and better at milking money from whales than the next thing tencent can come up with.
DB's publisher is owned by Ten Cent sooo yeah classic CN :D i think you hit the nail on the head ngl. and i find it disingenous how they try so hard to appear indie despite the literal triple A budget
wanst it dark and darker that got sued bu this company? think u have it the other way around, the ones that did dark and darker are the designers or where the designers of dungeonborne, then they jumped off and make dark and darker... thats my understanding of it
no, dark and darker has better lot and shit like that, but gameplay is far better on the other, lol have to kneel and look up like a r tard to specyaly block attacks just redicoulous,
@@ryan6daysaweek Not only sound, new animation is sick as well, I didn't even realize how unrealistic it was before until I saw the new one. It's a minor thing but I thought "fk yeah we are evolving" )).
nooooo I liked the old one and how they were blasting into pieces covering the whole room I kinda wish both stayed tbh, with effect varying depending on the impact power of the hit that broke it
I gotta say when they bring ruins back having to fight Armored sentinels as mobs would be really sick! Doesn’t have to be a one to one copy of Dungeonborne’s living armor suits but instead maybe stone statues that come to life and pop out of the walls
Playing both games. Loving both games. And both games will get better due to the competition. I am just freakin glad both exist, no reason to hate either of them, whats the point? Releasing anger? All you people in the comments, fix your mental problems, whats all the hate for
@@quilfrey1139 nah ive been seeing high levels of medical grade copium, even your statement is a cope, they clearly have advantages and disadvantages and clearly one was meant more for tryhards and one is more arcadey and modern in the sense that it doesnt over complicate with crafting, and DB is season based. sure DaD might do certain things better then DB, but DaD is 3 years old, this one is barely a year and is already very comparible, if it was that bad people wouldnt even waste their breath comparing them. but here we are... DB has like 70% positivity on steam... clearly DaD try hards are coping because the more casual gamers are going to DB. I like DaD too but this is just the reality of the situation.
@@MickeyDee420or is it you , the casual gamer who’s coping about any hate towards dungeon borne? When people see trash , they call it as such - it isn’t hateful , if that appears to you as hate , well maybe it’s YOU that is too sensitive ?
Dungeonborne was created during the DaD lawsuit simply to capitalise on the popularity of dark and darker. Some assets such as the cyclops were straight up copied from dark and darker, this is extremely messed up considering dark and darker was made by an upcoming studio which hands were already tied with a lawsuit from a massive studio. Dungeonborne feels like a cheap low polished game that was simply made as a cash grab, while when playing dark and darker you can clearly experience the love and effort that the devs put into creating the game
I hope both games can have a healthy rivalry. A lot of games nowdays have little to no competition, so a lot of popular games become super stagnated because there is no threat of being outclassed. Hopefully Dark and Darker and Dungeonborne can compete with each other and each have their own personal identity.
Oh man it feels so weird seeing THE Cyclops straight up 1:1 in Dungeonborne, I can't believe it. I presume it's just an UE5 asset so it makes sense, but... eugh
@@meat. I really prefer Dark and darker, but i played the first alpha of DB, and the cyclop was the first boss in DB, before it was in Dark and darker, but anyway that's just an asset on the marketplace, doesn't matter
It is with a passion that I despise the mobile game vibes that Dungeonborne gives off. Everything has this cheap, bouncy feel to it, but not in a good way. It feels like every other basically eastern mobile game designed to print money. Repulsive
Dungeon borne is owned by Tencent games also so they have BILLIONS of dollars behind the parent company and they do ridiculous mobile game micro transactions that’s why it feels like it because it will become exactly that. “As of August 2024 Tencent has a market cap of $439.67 Billion” it’s so scummy that they are copping the same stock assets instead of making any just to try and steal dark and darkers player base it’s not even a money thing
DaD literally has mobile game transactions, they literally both do. One could argue that the ragdoll physics in DaD are better objectively, but other than that I think its just early adopters trying to be elitists over normal casual gamers. DB is litterally superior in terms of features and graphical capabilities.
@@MickeyDee420 microtransaction does not equal mobile game. DB features? wtf are you talking about? dungeon insurance? lol! graphical capabilities? both games use premade assets, DB isnt doing anything amazing or original. the game plays like trash and theres no balance, its an obvious copy/pasta cash in and it plays like shit. the only thing DB did is show me how much better DAD is in comparison. at least in DaD i know that if i miss its because i messed up, and its not some shitty netcodes fault or bad hit reg. the combat feels so fucking terrible that you have got to be smoking some serious copium if you think its a better game. graphics dont mean shit, gameplay is king. you can dress a pile of shit up with nice graphics and pretend that its better than DaD, grow tf up.
Comments in response to your points: Dungeonborne has protected lobbies. I wish Dark and Darker navigated new players to the Squire, and updated base kits to be reflective of what is obtainable using the base squire. Dungeonborne would benefit from a squire. I do appreciate Dungeonborne's character customization allowing people to feel more represented (pale prioritization of presets), though the unlocked racial + class combo is cool (though its a specific balancing lever for Dungeonborne I suppose). In Dungeonborne, you can sell to the market and buy from it perfectly fine-- it's just the specific auction market you can't access (which can only be used to sell items with set bonuses on them). Understated is how much easier it is to sell loot in Dungeonborne vs. DaD, as you don't have to do searches to price the item and instead can essentially right click into the player market due to the random modifier approach to most gear. The complexity of Dark and Darker's melee combat is about distancing almost exclusively, whereas the ability to block with every weapon in Dungeonborne, with unique interactions for different ones (such as the perfect parry Longsword, mace+shield ability to attack while blocking, daggers giving a knockback on block to help space, etc.) being balanced alongside heavy attacks to break block or get a dash from certain weapons to reposition all give favor to Dungeonborne combat. Dungeonborne now has leaderboards in the sense of the highest average kills per game (regardless of extraction) per map and further divided into game mode. I totally disagree that you get the full game experience from both F2P-- DaD's one character limit, prohibition on selling, and no accessing high roller are major limitations compared to two less stash tabs and inability to interface with the set bonus market (with full access to buying selling any and all items on the normal market). My thoughts: Personally, I think the market differences alone make Dungeonborne more accessible to the average player. You can go pretty far in the game without knowing the exact affixes that you need, and instead focusing on your stat passives being unlocked. Explaining affix prioritizations to DaD players, even moderately experienced ones, can be very difficult, and further made difficult when you go to buy or sell items since they all affect the price drastically differently. The ability to dump all the things you got from the market in under a minute is massive-- in two hours of playing each game, I think it's safe to say I could be playing Dungeonborne for 1h40m of that time compared to roughly an hour for Dark and Darker. The map rotation can introduce a wait time for the map you want on top of the already existing lobby filling wait time, and if you're successful, the market interface is so clunky that it can feel not worth your time to sell anything that you don't know through experience isn't several hundred gold or more. Dungeonborne is very simple-- if its more than 500 gold per slot, indicated by an ingame tooltip that tells you the price to merchant or price on market, then don't bother. Further, on extract, it tells you the rough gold value that you extracted with if you were to liquidate everything. Gold isn't an item, but rather a number attached to your whole account, and so you get to use your stash on the things that matter more. I was ecstatic to not be subject to the door meta anymore as a central determinant of combat. That said, the theme cohesion of Dark and Darker is indisputably better. The sounds alone are so much more immersive-- the importance of foot steps is massive in Dark and Darker, while in Dungeonborne the closer parallel is whether or not use a weapon. Hitting a mob in Dungeonborne sends a massive sound cue out to most of the surrounding countryside and the sound isn't even vaguely the sound you'd think would emerge. Light being a factor matters much more in Dark and Darker as well-- Dungeonborne hardly has a reason to have torches other than that DaD did (same with the ability to turn off or on lights). The map variety is also indisputably better, and while the module system can feel like more of a maze when learning vs the natural builds from Dungeonborne, ultimately point to a better future with randomized map generation to counter precise map knowledge making the game a PvP rushdown within the first 30s of the game. And the differences are immense-- Goblin Caves are so different than Castle and Ice Caves, and them from each other, whereas Dungeonborne is almost like outside vs. inside. I haven't seen anybody I'm genuinely convinced of cheating in Dungeonborne, whereas Dark and Darker rarely had a several hour session without one popping up. Factoring in the teaming that occurs in Dark and Darker is also worth noting, though you can also say the VOIP is much more lively in DaD as I haven't heard anybody VOIP in Dungeonborne even once (not my cup of tea, but I know that's important to people). My Conclusion: Bang for the buck is unquestionably Dungeonborne, as you get the whole of its gameplay without even paying, but you get enough of DaD to determine if you enjoy it. For paid players, which I think you have to be for DaD to be fully enjoyed, I think playing whatever you find fun is perfectly fine. Loyalty to a company is amusing but unnecessary compared to enjoyment, as that is the purpose of the products. Both have things they do so much better than the competitor objectively, but most of it will be subjective, and you don't need to be validated externally to choose one over the other.
just play the game you enjoy, guys, objective ratings mean nothing if your having fun, i have 2k hours in dark and darker, i enjoy the game, but ive been recently having fun with dungeonborne, so just play the game thats most fun to you. objectively and imo dark and darker is better, but that doesn't mean you cant have fun with a different game.
Bros coping.😂 i downloaded dungeon borne and after seeing the UI looks worse than diablo 2 i uninstalled. The game is so ugly you cant even play it. Designed by students for sure.
hey I know this isn't related to the video or your point but you said you have 2k hours in DaD, do you think that nonsense about Dimo cheating is true?
@@Scege i dont know or really care, there are so many cheaters in this game, it wouldn't make it that much different if the person cheating was a youtuber, especially in a genre like this.
My opinion on Dungeonborne as a Dark and Darker player (don't take this review too seriously) Why I dislike Dungeonborne: -Reaction based combat - The person with the better reaction time (assuming you both have equal gear) usually wins -Mono directional blocking (as long as you face the enemy with a shield up you will block an attack) -Heavy/light attacks (light attacks can almost always be blocked no matter what and heavy attacks almost always go through blocks (basically rock paper scissors combat for melee fights) -Positioning is a borderline useless tactic for melee fights, no matter where you are in most melee fights it's still up to just who has better gear and who has the better reaction time -Most fights are just dps/gear checks, if the opponent is just better than you or if they have better gear they just win 90% of the time -Chance based crit has no place in a extraction hardcore game -Poorly optimized, the game stutters very often -Some classes are completely broken when played right -Very little variety, all classes are locked to a specific race and almost every skill/perk is not interchangeable with others making that specific class only useable with the same spells, unlike the perk/skill system in Dark and Darker which is more in depth -Game looks terrible (in my opinion of course) a lot of inconsistencies with the map making things look out of place, it really looks like a chinese mobile game -As of 2024, Dungeonborne has much less content than Dark and Darker, less maps, less enemies (DND has 2x the bosses and nearly 5x the enemies), less quests, less things to explore, less gear, etc -Bugs, there are so many bugs -Player market is RNG based? When placing an item on the market it doesn't keep its rolls and is rerolled when purchased unless you put it up on the auction house making you have to wait a long time for you to receive the money you deserve for that item. Why? -Most non-melee classes like casters seem to just be stronger (if played right) than most melee classes even if the melee player is better than you -The game feels incredibly clunky and mobile game-esque. Dark and Darker may also feel clunky in the beginning but later becomes more fluid and very comfortable, Dungeonborne never got any less clunky with more gameplay. -The elephant in the room, Dungeonborne began when the Dark and Darker devs were under a legal battle under their game. Dungeonborne devs took this opportunity to create a very similar game to grab all the players attention to then make tons of money if Dark and Darker lost the lawsuit. They knew it would be a success since Dark and Darkers demo in 2022 had a peak of roughly 300k players. This is why the game looks and feels like an empty cash grab (because the devs original intentions were in fact that) -In conclusion, Dungeonborne has some great ideas and has a lot of potential but it just seems that Dark and Darker just did what they did but better and first too. Dungeonborne definitely has some fun looking caster characters but playing the melee classes in this game (in my opinion is just a snooze fest). Why would you play a guy that just swings a sword when you can cast an ice storm and lob fireballs? At this point the game feels more like a magic focused game and should probably focus more on that. At the end of the day Dungeonborne has a horrendous melee system and a decent but clunky caster/range system. edit: I took some points from Ryan that I agree with heavily and worked well in this review
You said it's a reaction based combat but then you say it's a dps/gear checks, bro what the hell were you trying to say? Some classes are broken 'when played right', what are they? And did you really think this doesn't apply to DaD? Chance based crits? Just hit their head it's 100% crit?? The only thing I agree with your 'review' is the RNG market cause yeah that system made the builds solely RNG. And btw the guy that made DaD himself stole the idea from his previous company that's why there was a lawsuit. Everyone's a thief.
dungeonborne the uniques and legendaries are on a drop timer so certain hours of the day for certain named items all the RMT/Cheaters are farming the names and controlling the market. Wouldnt take it too serious arena is cool
The only thing that revolves around a timer is the moon cycle is for the heirloom crafting materials like the moon pendant which is the material needed to craft an heirloom necklace. It's found in the training room, not in a live dungeon. Yet the Crown is found in dungeons. It's a material to craft legendary heirlooms, which are not as good as normal legendaries. It's a cheap, welfare item which has much less stats and stat slots. I've found legendaries at all times of the day. Early morning, afternoon, evening and night. You're misunderstood.
@@A_Goat It's not a timed-window, but a limited drop like in a day or something. Uniques and legendaries still have a drop chance but once they dropped it will be on a cooldown until it resets again
I haven’t played Dungeonborne but just watching the game footage I hate the esthetic. It looks so corny to me. It’s like the difference between Diablo II and III…
Ironmace forever - love the team and love their love for us. I’ll never forget the torrent playtest coming out even though news of the lawsuit dropped.
Im not a massive dark&darker fan but dungeonborne feels so incredibly cheap that I dont even think its an option Walking, jumping, attacking & using abilities everything feels wayyy off
Finally someone gets it. The game at its core is so broken. The theme and style and stuff is whatever but the animations and character movements are so jank itll take years too fix.
Funny I feel the exact opposite way about Dungeonbourne and the same way you feel about dungeon born I feel about dark and darker. It's almost like there's games for different types of people
@@Psikick4 nope, dark and darker is slow, dungeonborne is weightless Every ability feels like you are on tracks Hitting a 20cm goblin with a 3m sword that has 50cm range deals 10% of its hp everything feels like you are in a dream hitting things with pool noodles
It's good that there's more developers trying to copy the DaD formula. I don't care who did it first. I don't own loyalty to neither Iron Mace nor any developer. If someone makes a similar game that's better than DaD, I'll play that instead, and if IM wants us to keep playing DaD, they should put the work and care the game deserves.
Dark and darker has a very big new player feature you didn't even talk about. You can have a knight volunteer player join you and teach you stuff in real time/ answer questions in game, without ever needing to use a third party app (discord)
Dungeonborne had the chest and cyclops before D&D, it was called "project crawl". Drungeonborne will eventually take the lead as it is more appealing to play, even right now Dungeonborne is catching up to D&D in active players and won't take long before they take the lead. This is coming from someone who had many more hours in D&D than Dungeonborne
As soon as I saw Summit popping a BLITZCRANK HOOK from 30 feet away as a death knight, I was just immediately uninterested. Positioning and kiting and chasing is not a thing. You're just there to slash at people like a mobile game.
mid opinion lmao. i love summit but bro struggled with both dark and darker and dungeonborne for a bit. can 100% confirm tho you dont just sit there and slash at people like a mobile game. If you think there is no positioning/kiting/chasing, you're wrong. You can do these things and get kills easier, thats kinda what those things do. Maybe if youre a light build that isnt supposed to chase you shouldnt chase type thing tho. hope youre enjoying DaD if you play that at least
@@MickeyDee420 It's two years older and Dungeonborne actually has more content already and is a lot more polished. I mostly play Dark and Darker and the community is on so much copium. DaD is addictive and has a nice dungeoncrawler vibe, but it's pretty piss poor quality. DaD has already copied several things from DB but idk if they will ever catch up to them. DaD is a much harder game to code.
@@Zistac7DaD is still in early access, it has endless room to grow and from what the devs have communicated to the players they have big things coming down the line. I think the only thing I dislike about Dungeonborne is how it looks/feels. It just feels more of an arcade style game which is just my opinion
@@StickyTitan98 I agree on the stylization. And yeah, DaD still has a lot of potential, but I'm keeping my expectations grounded. They have been very, very slow to deliver so far.. they have had their reasons, but that doesn't change the reality.
I many hours in both. Each fill a certain roll in my gaming space. dungeonborne is way better when playing with casual gaming buddies, while dark and darker is better with a couple more serious buddies. I’m expecting dungeonborne will have way less of a hacker issue than dd which on high roller is terrible at the moment. And dungeonborne while much newer seems to have a better approach to class balancing changes so far. Dd is kind of shit with their balancing the ALWAYS either overtune a class or nerf it into oblivion. Still love dd and hope it will learn from some of db’s features and improve. If it doesn’t db might have the size and speed to improve much more quickly. We will see. For now I’m having a blast with both.
8:14 This is incorrect. You actually can sell whatever you want on the randomized market, but you need to buy access to the auction house where you can sell items as-is for however much you want. You can buy and sell on a basic level completely for free. :) Edit: there's also no "free version" of the game. The game is entirely free to play. The only paid features are cosmetic skins and auction house listing privileges.
nah bro cuz if u get a purple with a set effect you're forced to sell it when it could be worth 30k+ on the vendor. 4k to the random seller or 30k in the auction. thats what you're losing.
After playing DaD for a two months, installed dungeonborne to try it out. First of all, god damn I laughed hard after eventually finding dungeonborne cyclops. Laughed even more after killing him first try.
COMBAT: Dark and Darker combat lacks mechanics (for the "Get Gud" comments, I peaked top 20 on my class leaderboards) - blocking is suboptimal because your counter attack lands after your opponent's second swing - parrying first person and third person animations do not match, making it extremelly inconsistent - dodging is heavely tied to movement speed, when your opponent (is of a similar skill level, and) has more move speed than you, you can't dodge - trading blows and aiming for more headshots than your opponents is unfun and does not require decision making Dungeonborne combat mechanics feels responsive, allow mind games and is fun, at the expense of... CUSTOMIZATION (combat-related): Dungeonborne classes have less skill options and player expression, but I prefer 10x a class that has a single good core gameplay than a Dark and Darker class that has 10 different skills and a hunded possible combinations, but only 4 viable choices at best and 3 of them feels and plays the same. Dark and Darker has hundreds of items, but every armor piece is just a minor stat difference, Dungeonborne cuts the boring parts and simplify it, making you spend less time in lobby and more time playing. Less options is way, way easier to balance. In some time, DB will probably have about 15-20 classes with unique playstyles and a good enough balance, and Dark and Darker will still be struggling with nerfing one playstile of a class and accidentally making another playstyle much weaker (I'm looking at you Melee Warlock) MENU: Dark and Darker has lots more NPCs, but is it fun? Is it fun to click 10 different screens for the same result as 2 or 3? DB again cuts time losses on menu. As sad as it is, for me, the big company "won" and made a better game in less time. Ironmace wasted a lot of its potential, time and resources with it's broken power structure and the "back and forth" changes
Put on shield master man, you can’t be longsword in sword and boarding without it, that’s why it “parry” isn’t fast enough. I assume you mean longsword and not a shield tho as blocking then attacking isn’t a “parry”. Secondly the crafted items have lots of very strong stats and are generally up to 2xs the power level of their non crafted same rarity counterpart. And if ur just trading blows ur not spacing well and that is indeed a skill issue my man, I hate to say it. Dungeon borne is just brainless right click left click, whilst dark and darker hit boxes are by no means perfect they are FAR more skill expressive then mono direction blocking will ever be. Finally the core gameplay loop of dungeon bornes pvp is getting frozen in place by a cryowiz from across the room, or 3 tapped by a sword masters flying sword ability in under 2 seconds. As a longsworder in dark and darker the fact you can’t even fully block damage in silly and is enough reason alone for me personally to put the game down until things change. No cool 1 hp clutches, and 0 ability to express any form or skill in a go disadvantage situation. Plus the gear diff is insane and cheaters/Rmt’er just farm the TIMED LEGENDARY DROPS. At least in dark and darker I can get my own legendaries and uniques in every run I do. It’s also very clear you don’t really touch dark and darker as melee lock is one if not the strongest builds in the game as of now.!
@@Zorkalot 1 Obviously Shield Master fix it, but you really think it's okay that just 1 class can use blocks effectively? 1.1 Never said "parry" isn't fast enough, I said block and counter attack: that is for shields 2 Crafted or not, there is no mechanical difference between having a "Generic Chestpiece +2 Str" and a "Champion Armor +5 Str", just numbers. 3 I'm not trading blows, but all Exemplar and below are. And even in Demigod, you can do nothing except trade blows if you're fighting melee vs melee (without ranged meta bullshit) and your opponent has more MS than you. Try spacing against a ganking Sprinted fighter 4 If you think Dungeonborne is left click right click you probably didn't play it enough. Its rock paper scisors like traditional fighting games, with spacing for charging heavy attacks. Try the arena mode for like 5 matches and you'll get a grasp (or be clapped by dual swords spammers if you don't) 5 Cryowiz suffers from the same problem as Dnd Rogue, if he's in the right spot, you can't do nothing, if he isn't, he's dead. Maybe sometime both get balenced somehow. 6 Swordmaster Q (flying swords across the room) is blockable 7 Yeah I didn't touched DnD for a while, but it's not a surprise that Melee Lock is now strong, they can't balance Longsword/CrystalSword Phantomize BoC at the same time they balance Kris Dagger BSB. Every time they buff one they make the other OP, every time they nerf one, they make the other F tier (imagine having to change classes before shared stash because of this out of nowhere nerfs) Thanks for your points, I'd like to discuss more but maybe I'll take a while to respond
Bros on the best kush. Nothing about DBs combat feels responsive. It feels so cheap and mobile. Runescapes combat has better hit feedback and animations😂
Small correction: 24 or lower not 25. 25 puts you into the next bracket which stops at 124 and 125 means you're at the highest bracket where any gearscore can pop.
I wish there was a straight up PVE mode in one of these games. Would be fun to dungeon dive with friends and not get ganked. As a result. Not sure I'll ever be able to get into them, even if I love the idea of them. Seems like a really cool dungeon delving style in these games.
Dungeonbourne auction items are only randomly rolled on the free side of the market. When you unlock / purchase the ability to sell you can then purchase for the stats you want.
23:47 I despise B-hopping in any combat-based game. It's so beyond unrealistic it's laughable. Bows/Slings (let alone bullet based ones that use it) shoot their projectiles fast enough that if you aim properly at the ranges this game is played at, you would not be dodging them. There's a reason shields were invented, and it's because B-hopping is *not* going to help *at all* in combat of any kind.
As much as I enjoy Dark & Darker, I also enjoy Dungeonborne's different direction. It's clear that it's newer though, and I think that if given enough time to fully flesh out their mechanics and system, it'll be able to flourish much better and maybe not take *over* dark and darker as much as it does fulfill a different niche. I think they need to go further from Dark & Darker's aesthetic, and just try and follow their own stylistic direction without Dark & Darker influence for them to make a truly unique game. I personally enjoy the intent of Dungeonborne a lot more, focusing more on character builds through prioritizing certain stats rather than a perk system, but in motion the game needs some fine-tuning before I think it will show real promise. The biggest thing that Dungeonborne has going for it though is its community. Something about Dark & Darker seems to attract a very toxic community, I imagine it's the intensity of it. Dungeonborne has (at least from my experience) had noticeably less toxicity, which honestly makes the game significantly more bearable. Where I can't say I've had any good experience near Dark & Darker fans other than personal friends, Dungeonborne has had a bit more of an accepting nature in their fanbase, and that keeps me coming back to it. Not to say that makes the game better, but its niche market will find players flocking to it if people aren't constantly being put off by Dark & Darker's toxic community. Out of my friend group, I'm the only one in touch with Dark & Darker's community/discord, and it's usually just to stay in touch with balance-changes, and the little time I spend on there is extremely toxic. Their subreddit isn't any better, but that's kind of how most reddits are. I do agree that Dark & Darker at the time of writing is a significantly more polished game, but that's probably because it's just had a lot more time *to* be polished in comparison, especially considering that not only did it begin development earlier, it also began development as P3 WAY before Project Crawl was announced. This is more a comparison of Alpha-testing and Beta-testing. You should have tried Dungeonstalkers! It was recently under Playtest. It was a JRPG style on the fantasy-extraction genre, very fun to play with as well.
100% agreed. Dark and Darker all the way. I have 1k hour on Dad, maybe only 20 hours in Dungeonborne, but still... The pvp in Dad is more intricate, gear progression is better, there's more content, quests are fun, etc.
One good point Dungeonborne has is that the skills for each class makes sense, as in, they mix pretty well. One example is the Death knight, that can grab you and use his other skill to keep you in place while dealing damage, or the Fighter who can dash into you and then spin/battle cry to fight you head on. And it makes sense that Dark and Darker dont have too much cohesion between them, because you can pick any of the skills, where in Dungeonborne they can only be on a specific slot, so you cannot mix them as you want
@@Odyssey636 Yea, you have basically no customization and builds are so cookie cutter in Dungeonborne... Them "Making sense" isn't really a good point.
DaD is much superior in both visual and gameplay design. I have no idea why Dungeonborne decided to re-use some of the same assets, if that's their selling point then it's worse game in same genre; but at the same time it isn't eveb that because Dungeonborne has such a different feel to it so it's more appropriate to be identified a mobile slasher/moba game.
Weird i find dungeon borne to have some of the worst melee combat ive ever seen. Even against indie solo game devs. I find dark and darkers melee combat really smooth and good. You are complaining about meta. Something easily changed. Dungeon bornes combat cannot be fixed. At its core the animations and movement timings are broken and they dont have the dev experience to fix it.
Thank you for putting together this comprehensive comparison. I think a lot of the commentary on dungeon-borne I’ve seen has been polarized one way or the other.
So in my analysis of trying both as a beginner and for beginners , it truly comes down to what it is what you’re looking for . I think Dungeonborne is a fun game and abit more fast paced but also a bit arcady but it’s a good game for a beginner or just any one in general who isn’t trying to be biased. D&D is a good gritty game where you feel the interaction of just killing someone or something , the game is edgy if you like that kind of thing which I do so i’m not shitting on it , It’s a good game but it’s actually really hard if you’re not smart enough. Another thing is why I prefer Dungeonborne abit is because D&D is a grinding hard kind of game , you literally have to grind your ass off and it will be very difficult for you to get into if you don’t have much time on your hands. So I’d say if you really just want to have a good time DB but if you want to have a good time on d&d you better work hard for it cause it will be rough for you until you do most of quest & get good gear. It’s unforgiving but i’d have to go with DB just a personal preference:) I’d still play d&d from time to time . another thing is you can’t compare the two games but only that DB Is inspired by D&D so you see some similarities but once you play it its actually different in its own way of going about it. I just wish DB had the same grit style of D&D and the dark atmosphere of it.
I've played both. Dungeonborne looks and plays better than dark and darker. Shit actually dies, you aren't locked behind a paywall and DB just looks and feels better both in graphics and animations.
How not to guess what you're going to get on dungeonborne market.... bid. Also Dungeonbornes "arena mode" is actually 3v3 tdm right now, actual arena comes out soon :)
You're literally trying to make Dark and Darker look better. In the comparison of the combat system with Dungeonborn, you’ve only focused on light and heavy attacks, ignoring many other features. The funny part is that Dark and Darker is actually a game made up of just basic attacks, hahaha. It's tragicomic that you're trying to belittle a better game just because you've invested thousands of hours into it. I'm not even mentioning your explanation of the trade system. It really makes me wonder if you’ve actually played Dungeonborn?
Dungeonborne hasn't had as much time to cook as DaD, and I'm not opposed to it becoming a fun game. It still has the same issues that DaD currently has, and they haven't really put any twist in their game, other than making it slower and more basic.
13:00 hi Ryan, slight correction level 15 when you get all your perks “every 5 levels up to level 15 “ was what you should have said 15:40 you’ve never played 50 vigor bard????
We say DaD is clunky but it's a strong sense of cohesion in it's mechanics... like, yes, it's slow in its movement and actions, but very deliberately so, with a very gritty realism aspect to it, such as the omnidirectional blocking/attacking, which I distinctinctly remember blowing my mind when I first started playing
Why many DnD supporters here? 1. This a channel for DnD contents. OF COURSE, viewers are mostly DnD players. 2. Most Dungeonborne players doesn't even give a fk about DnD, so they won't come watch this video or even leave a comment. If you are picking which game to start with, the comment section of this video is not a good place for your reference.
Totally agree, the process of forging hierlooms is totally sick and dark and darker should steal it lmao, would be cool to see as the wipe progresses peoples gear score advances accordingly, while letting new players (and new to the wipe) have that progression as well.
people who say dungeonborne is better simply say it because it's easier to have succes in that game (since it's way easier and really really basic) dark and darker is superior in every aspect, besides of some much needed quality of like (aka dungeonborne's ingame market design) i really hope they make market usage in darker more fluid, because right now it's a chore. Other than that, dark and darker is so so so much better, not even a question.
So dungeonbornes customizable character faces, also an in game tutorial ,also an arena team death match none of which dark and darker has and it happens to be more fun to play coming from a guy with 2000 hours in dark and darker. Yeah I’ve been playing nothing but dungeonborne since it dropped.
Dark and Darker is a better game overall, the combat and gameplay has more depth, and there is a lot more content with multiple dungeons to explore and fight in. I will say, in Dungeonborne I like how 'Arcadey' it feels, it feels like an oldschool mmorpg with better combat/collision. Gear progression in it doesn't have as much of an impact and the classes feel more balanced, but the loot gets pointless fast
One mistake is DaD is only about 2 years old. The first PT1 happened in August of 2022. It is just under 2 years old. DaD has quite a bit of missing features and stuff but they are still very actively developing. I expect we will see a tutorial and other stuff sooner rather than later. I feel that its absence however was no accidental. They wanted the game to be more hardcore. Just like a souls game there is no real tutorial they just throw you at the first boss and say figure it out.
(Not watched the video yet) Dark and Darker wins for me. I like that Dungeonborne exists because competition is always good, however when you think that DB's publisher is owned by Ten Cent i.e they have a near unlimited budget, vs DaD which has a mere fraction of money and manpower at their disposal... with this context, I'll always go with DaD. Ironmace, despite the hate they get (especially in the discord), have done a phenomenal job over the last couple years and overcame many adversities. DaD feels like a passion project made in to reality, DB feels like a competitor disguised as "indie" despite the triple A budget. Although I will concede DaD probably has a lot more potential for getting BS'd than DB does. I look forward to seeing how the games develop over the years.
what i never understood was the asset argument for dark and darker; in my opinion everything looks very consistent; if i would not know it i would think that all these models were made for this game and i think in the end that is what really matters; the problem usually arising with assets is inconsistency in the artstyle when using multiple packs and loosing your identity when its the same 8 bit sprite you already saw in 5 other games; i can´t say i felt like i saw any of the 3D models before in another game; the only thing i feel dungeonborne does better is that heirloom system; i wished there was a bit more progression ins dark and darker and the quest system feels pretty meh
I'm new to both games and I must say the new player experience is a bit different for me than what you described. As far as "tutorial" yes DB has a tutorial where it teaches you how to attack block and move. But as far as new player matches go, DB really really struggles. DB has a pretty rapidly decreasing player count (look at steam metrics) and as such they were forced to combine their US east, US west, and SA servers into 1 server called "Americas". This essentially shafts USe and SA players as the new server is USw based (though they have said they're trying to make it a US central server). People playing not in USe have significantly higher ping than USw players. And as a new player it's more difficult to tell if I'm dead to lag, or dead cuz bad. Another huge problem with lower player numbers in DB is the matchmaking seems completely unbalanced. As a new player I'm guessing you're extremely lucky if you don't run into a heavily kitted, more experienced player in a casual match. You can go in with mostly white items and just a few greens or blues and go up against a kitted player with purples. And for a game that's much much more gear dependant, that's a very big problem. The biggest draw that DB has over DD is in the free version you can make multiple characters. I still prefer DD but if they let a f2p player make multiple characters it would be a way bigger draw for the casual player like my friends and me.
Haven't played dungeonborne yet, but from what information I've gathered, it felt like the quality of life there are a lot better than DaD. If only Ironmace would dedicate some of their time improving player experience, rather than testing all their fancy new ideas.
Dungeonborne= more fun, DaD= better melee pvp combat mechanics (love longsword, zwei spacing etc.) at the end of the day I was #27 ALL in DaD and im current #1 SM on Dungeonborne and I do like Dungeonborne more. The arena is SICK!!!
I genuinely didn't expect to like dungeonborne at first after dark and darker, and I think I still prefer dark and darker. However, dungeonborne actually feels kind of... good? Sometimes? I think the biggest advantage is feeling faster than dark and darker, the sloggyness of DaD hinders it a lot if you're not bis move speed. Anyways, Good video! Love the idea. Always keep your mind open and ultimately; just play which game you like more.
This comes from someone who likes POE as a main game. Dungeonbornes speed in combat is trash and its not skill expression. Its spam. I prefer fast games but a melee based pvp game deserves to be slow unless you are going to turn it into wow with action bars and active skills.
Great work comparing the games and highlighting the strengths and weaknesses of each. I think the only thing this video misses is hardcore vs casual gamefeel. DB gives you damage numbers and block icons and other visual indicators to provide you with information that DaD purposely withholds. This creates a more arcadey MOBA feel to DB compared to the immersive hardcore dungeon crawl sim that is DaD.
When you look at some things Dungeonborne is doing better, and the graphics, you now they have a funder. So they are not completely indie studio, they are doing the game for some other studio and getting money from them... Ironmace doesn't have that, so development can be slow and clanky time to time, but atleast they have the heart and the passion do make this game what they dreamed of, and make it better for players aswell. Mithril don't have the heart or the passion, they are here just for the money, and they missed their chance to be only pvpve dungeon crawler game in Steam when DaD was not able to be there. Dungeonborne is just weird step sibling who wants to be like his big brother, and copies everything from him
dark and darker leave dungeon borne to dust with battle and stat system alone. when i try DB i really appreciate IRONMACE more. they really think about the game deeply.
DaD is better but it has had more time to refine things. Dungeonborne has a lot of nice things DaD should for sure steal. Dungeonborne also feels like an easier experience to get into the genre before moving up to a harder game. Like going from CoD to CS.
Great review overall. I would have personally preferred if you've put gameplay content or examples of what "visual clutter" is at 17:18. Furthermore, since gear diff is an issue to both games, you should have discussed also systems to avoid the gear diff thru maneuver or prior info (e.g. current system of lobby inspection, movement speed diff and door delaying in DaD). Questions like "Is player combat (and death) imminent if a higher GS player sees me" would be relevant. I personally don't know the in-game equivalent of those in Dungeonborne as I have not played the game but would still be good to put into perspective. Finally, A discussion about gearscore lobbies/matchmaking (e.g. DaD 0-24, 25-125, 125 plus, and 225 HR plus) would have also made a good comparative variable.
THe only thing dungeonborne has going for it is the market and how easy it is to sell stuff. You just click the item, it shows a graph of the past price listings what its going for currently and you can either adjust it or sell as. If Dark and Darker was able to streamline their market system in a similar way, then that's that.
Dungeonborne has so many quality-of-life improvements in comparison to DaD and lets you fuck around and find out with every class whenever you want. But the balance of this game and whatever the fuck the devs are doing... is a downward spiral. I wish the game actually pulled it off and grow, but so far it's not great. As for DaD, it's fun to play to some extent, but I grow to hate PvP so much there. And with the auction paywalled, I have no use of all the plundered loot.
I think Dark and Darker is better, Dungeonborne does a few things better such as the new player or f2p experience. Being able to try out the many classes is the main factor but theres other things like the heirloom system which makes losing forgiving and giving you something to progress even when you're still learning/losing. In Dark and Darker, you get only one character and can not try another class unless you delete it or pay money. Doesn't incentivize people to pay, incentivizes them to quit. The only real incentive to pay is for trading, the rest are just counterintuitive and ruin player experience. The other thing I like about DnD is the many nuances like how loot is set around the map, and how the objects like breakables might be worth interacting with for a new player looking for quick greens, potions, etc. So the map is more interactive. In dungeonborne, the items around the map, and the breakables are few and far between. Aswell they are essentially not worth interacting with because they are so unrewarding.
Visually, dungeonborne is way more appealing. I have no idea what you're getting at here, but the bias for dark and darker is crazy. I like dark and darker more than dungeonborne, so don't get me wrong though. I just notice that there's so much more lighting, color, and generally better details inside dungeonborne over the murky and dank crypts of dark and darker. If you took any two random people on the planet and asked them for their opinion on which game looks better, 99% of them would choose dungeonborne. Otherwise, the gameplay of dungeonborne is absolute garbage, and I particularly like the omni-directional combat of dark and darker much more. It adds another layer of skill expression outside of adding more buttons similar to the game "for honor" with it's melee combat. People are way too healthy as well, making the entire fight about who can whittle down the other opponent first before going in to finish the kill. It rewards annoying playstyles and doesn't punish anyone for it either.
As a mostly DaD player who plays both, DB is easily the better game in terms of both overall quality and combat, but DaD has a better dungeoncrawler vibe. Edit: Giving DaD an 8/10 is hilarious. It's a cool game but it's a 6/10 at best and 4/10 through a critical viewpoint. This video is LOADED with false info as well. Your bias as a content creator is hilarious... DaD is doomed thanks to terrible takes like this.
@@koreanzombie6697 It has a nice basic tutorial, merchants are better, streamlined, and more responsive, 0 no regs, 0 rubberbanding, much less cheating, better ping, you can swap items in inventory, no bunny hopping, no stripping armor mid combat, no dsync, every class has counterplay for the others and has more extensive parrying and blocking mechanics, better healing (dark and darker recently copied it), a better resurrection system, etc. Look bro I like DaD but it's a janky fucking mess. I wish I liked the DB graphics more because I actually have fun playing that game while DaD is just fucking annoying to play half the time with the shitty PvE ai just standing there braindead yelling or getting rubberbanded into a corner. If you think DaD is better in terms of quality then I believe you are the one lacking rational thinking (which is probably why you provided none in your response) or you haven't even played DB enough to have a clue. DB is simply much more well made. DaD is cooler. That's it
Dark and darker. I do think that they are already importing some cool quality of life things. Overall, it'd better health for both in the long run it seems.
Use this thread to vote: comment below Dark and Darker or Dungeonborne and then I will continuously tally up the votes (please just comment once only, you can add more context in your message with 'edit' if you would like!)
Dark and Darker: 60
Dungeonborne: 7
Dark and Darker
Dark and Darker
Dark and Darker
dungeonborne
Dark and Darker
Dungeonborne is dark and darker for kids
Ding ding
more like for casuals but yea its also more appealing for kids for sure.
Dark and darker has great gameplay and dogshit everything else
Dungeonborne is the opposite. Dogshit gameplay, great meta\ux
So youve only fought monsters then lmfao go try pvp and tell people thats easier too
@@DarkerHeartbeat your as high as a Crack addled kite I played one day of dungeonborne and couldn't even stomach a match of dark and darker since. there's something wrong with yall dark and darker shills the only thing dark and darker has on dungeonborne is more skills and more passive skills and the best part about it is dark and darker is so much up its own metas ass that it's meta or bust so is the variety really even better??? Dungeonborne requires all kinds of different stats to make your character good in dark and darker all you need is move speed and a dagger so yeah get the ironmace monster cock out of your throat dark and darker is a great game but yall be saying shit that is straight up objectively wrong
Competition for Dark and Darker is good at any rate, healthy for the game
this is very much true, I am excited to see this game genre develop as a whole
Based
dungeonborne looks and feels like a mobile game port to me. It's not a bad game it's just hard to really compare it to DnD. it reminds me of how dark and darker mobile looks
This is exactly what I say. It just looks like I'm playing a shitty mobile game
The studio (level infinite) is a subsidiary of tencent and have developed almost exclusively mobile games before
Fun fact that may be a little relevant, Tencwnt actually also has a 10% stake in Kratfon, the company making D&D mobile
@@KonLud DaD feels like you're playing a shitty mobile game. Both games are dogshit
@christianlandgrave5796 Damn someone's feelings are hurt. DaD definitely does not feel like a mobile game at all😂 You have complete control of your character and the combat is crisp af. I think you're just mad cause your stuck at Neophyte 😂
dark and darker from temu
Wait until you play dungeonborne then😂
@@rs2hardhe is saying DB is DaD from temu bro
DB litterally has bigger budget than DaD, name brand DaD would be more accurate lol
People would have talked crap when DaD was first released. DB is brand new. Give it time.
@@MickeyDee420yeah sure is a bigger budget title and yet it still looks way worse. Also it's literally made by a company who specializes in making money grab mobile games, hence why DB clearly resembles a mobile game. They tried to take advantage of DaD being off steam but they failed even at that. DaD being made by such a small company is super impressive AND respectable while on the other hand we have the literal opposite with DB.
The real winners are the players. This makes the devs have to be on there a game to stay on top
this is so true. It's good that there is competition, then both devs will make more efforts within their respective games.
The real winners are the players? Both of these games are garbage and capitalize on predatory gameplay loops that maximize negative player emotion to increase binge-type player engagement, The real losers are the players who get sucked into these scummy casino tactics and the toxicity and cultiness of the communities reflects that.
@@christianlandgrave5796 lol. Someone got stabbed by a rogue one too many times.
@@aFoolsMartyr Nah, the rogues usually go for my ranger friend, but I have been 3-4 shot by rogues before while having 210hp and around 30% pdr on barb a few times.
@@christianlandgrave5796 what is blud waffling about.
I think the problem with dungeonborne boils down to this: Dungeonborne is trying to be dark and darker. They aren't trying to make their own unique game in a similar genre with similar mechanics, they're trying to make DaD. They created it when dark and darker wasn't on steam, to try and profit off of that gap in the market. They use the same assets in the same way as dark and darker. Everything they have done besides some minor QOL stuff has been a step or two behind as their devs have to see how it works in dark and darker, then figure out how to duplicate it in DB. These are not the actions of a studio that knows how to make a good game on their own without copying someone else's. These aren't the actions of a studio that cares about whether they are blatantly stealing someone else's ideas or work. These are the actions of a corporation that saw an opportunity to profit off of someone else's misfortune in the cheapest, easiest, and lowest risk way possible. It doesn't matter whether you like the game, because it will only exist while it remains extremely cheap, and better at milking money from whales than the next thing tencent can come up with.
CN average
DB's publisher is owned by Ten Cent sooo yeah classic CN :D i think you hit the nail on the head ngl. and i find it disingenous how they try so hard to appear indie despite the literal triple A budget
Do you think all souls-game are just stealing from dark souls as well? If they make something better then better for everyone.
wanst it dark and darker that got sued bu this company? think u have it the other way around, the ones that did dark and darker are the designers or where the designers of dungeonborne, then they jumped off and make dark and darker... thats my understanding of it
@@namename-qb5xe No. You don't know what you're talking about
Dark and darker. Your welcome
no, dark and darker has better lot and shit like that, but gameplay is far better on the other, lol have to kneel and look up like a r tard to specyaly block attacks just redicoulous,
One of my favorite audio changes is when they changed the sound of breaking clay pots.
I love breaking pots now, sounds so sexy
new pot breaking sound is pure ASMR
@@ryan6daysaweek Not only sound, new animation is sick as well, I didn't even realize how unrealistic it was before until I saw the new one. It's a minor thing but I thought "fk yeah we are evolving" )).
nooooo I liked the old one
and how they were blasting into pieces covering the whole room
I kinda wish both stayed tbh, with effect varying depending on the impact power of the hit that broke it
I gotta say when they bring ruins back having to fight Armored sentinels as mobs would be really sick! Doesn’t have to be a one to one copy of Dungeonborne’s living armor suits but instead maybe stone statues that come to life and pop out of the walls
Playing both games. Loving both games. And both games will get better due to the competition. I am just freakin glad both exist, no reason to hate either of them, whats the point? Releasing anger? All you people in the comments, fix your mental problems, whats all the hate for
finally a normal human lol
we aren't hating on DB. But we're just pointing out that clearly DaD is objectively better than DB in terms of overall gameplay and polishing.
@@quilfrey1139 nah ive been seeing high levels of medical grade copium, even your statement is a cope, they clearly have advantages and disadvantages and clearly one was meant more for tryhards and one is more arcadey and modern in the sense that it doesnt over complicate with crafting, and DB is season based. sure DaD might do certain things better then DB, but DaD is 3 years old, this one is barely a year and is already very comparible, if it was that bad people wouldnt even waste their breath comparing them. but here we are... DB has like 70% positivity on steam... clearly DaD try hards are coping because the more casual gamers are going to DB. I like DaD too but this is just the reality of the situation.
@@MickeyDee420or is it you , the casual gamer who’s coping about any hate towards dungeon borne? When people see trash , they call it as such - it isn’t hateful , if that appears to you as hate , well maybe it’s YOU that is too sensitive ?
Dungeonborne was created during the DaD lawsuit simply to capitalise on the popularity of dark and darker. Some assets such as the cyclops were straight up copied from dark and darker, this is extremely messed up considering dark and darker was made by an upcoming studio which hands were already tied with a lawsuit from a massive studio. Dungeonborne feels like a cheap low polished game that was simply made as a cash grab, while when playing dark and darker you can clearly experience the love and effort that the devs put into creating the game
You do realize those assets got bought off store, not like IM made them...
Dungeon borne is owned by Tencent games also so they have BILLIONS of dollars behind the parent company
Are you expecting Chinese to play fair?
cyclops was in "project crawl", dungeonborne's alpha name, then dark and darker put it in. Same with marvelous chests and a few other things.
@@dans4125oh really? I'm switching games, Dungeonborne clearly original and best. Thanks for providing this vital information!
Dark and Darker > Dungeomborn
I hope both games can have a healthy rivalry.
A lot of games nowdays have little to no competition,
so a lot of popular games become super stagnated because there is no threat of being outclassed.
Hopefully Dark and Darker and Dungeonborne can compete with each other and each have their own personal identity.
Oh man it feels so weird seeing THE Cyclops straight up 1:1 in Dungeonborne, I can't believe it. I presume it's just an UE5 asset so it makes sense, but... eugh
yeah it’s still pretty shameless considering one game already used it first
@@meat. I really prefer Dark and darker, but i played the first alpha of DB, and the cyclop was the first boss in DB, before it was in Dark and darker, but anyway that's just an asset on the marketplace, doesn't matter
store bought asset, anyone can make a game and buy the asset and put it in. theres nothing to moralize about it
@@haydenmcdonald4087 Sure, but saying that "Omg db copying the cyclops they put it after" is kinda wrong
@@meat.That is tencent for you, millions more in funding, cuts corners even harder.
It is with a passion that I despise the mobile game vibes that Dungeonborne gives off. Everything has this cheap, bouncy feel to it, but not in a good way. It feels like every other basically eastern mobile game designed to print money. Repulsive
I agree that the controls feel odd in Dungeonborne, I wish I had some way to show case that in the video but it definitely doesn't play that great
Dungeon borne is owned by Tencent games also so they have BILLIONS of dollars behind the parent company and they do ridiculous mobile game micro transactions that’s why it feels like it because it will become exactly that. “As of August 2024 Tencent has a market cap of $439.67 Billion” it’s so scummy that they are copping the same stock assets instead of making any just to try and steal dark and darkers player base it’s not even a money thing
DaD literally has mobile game transactions, they literally both do. One could argue that the ragdoll physics in DaD are better objectively, but other than that I think its just early adopters trying to be elitists over normal casual gamers. DB is litterally superior in terms of features and graphical capabilities.
@@MickeyDee420 microtransaction does not equal mobile game. DB features? wtf are you talking about? dungeon insurance? lol! graphical capabilities? both games use premade assets, DB isnt doing anything amazing or original. the game plays like trash and theres no balance, its an obvious copy/pasta cash in and it plays like shit. the only thing DB did is show me how much better DAD is in comparison. at least in DaD i know that if i miss its because i messed up, and its not some shitty netcodes fault or bad hit reg. the combat feels so fucking terrible that you have got to be smoking some serious copium if you think its a better game. graphics dont mean shit, gameplay is king. you can dress a pile of shit up with nice graphics and pretend that its better than DaD, grow tf up.
@@MickeyDee420 I fundamentally disagree
Comments in response to your points:
Dungeonborne has protected lobbies. I wish Dark and Darker navigated new players to the Squire, and updated base kits to be reflective of what is obtainable using the base squire. Dungeonborne would benefit from a squire. I do appreciate Dungeonborne's character customization allowing people to feel more represented (pale prioritization of presets), though the unlocked racial + class combo is cool (though its a specific balancing lever for Dungeonborne I suppose). In Dungeonborne, you can sell to the market and buy from it perfectly fine-- it's just the specific auction market you can't access (which can only be used to sell items with set bonuses on them). Understated is how much easier it is to sell loot in Dungeonborne vs. DaD, as you don't have to do searches to price the item and instead can essentially right click into the player market due to the random modifier approach to most gear. The complexity of Dark and Darker's melee combat is about distancing almost exclusively, whereas the ability to block with every weapon in Dungeonborne, with unique interactions for different ones (such as the perfect parry Longsword, mace+shield ability to attack while blocking, daggers giving a knockback on block to help space, etc.) being balanced alongside heavy attacks to break block or get a dash from certain weapons to reposition all give favor to Dungeonborne combat. Dungeonborne now has leaderboards in the sense of the highest average kills per game (regardless of extraction) per map and further divided into game mode. I totally disagree that you get the full game experience from both F2P-- DaD's one character limit, prohibition on selling, and no accessing high roller are major limitations compared to two less stash tabs and inability to interface with the set bonus market (with full access to buying selling any and all items on the normal market).
My thoughts:
Personally, I think the market differences alone make Dungeonborne more accessible to the average player. You can go pretty far in the game without knowing the exact affixes that you need, and instead focusing on your stat passives being unlocked. Explaining affix prioritizations to DaD players, even moderately experienced ones, can be very difficult, and further made difficult when you go to buy or sell items since they all affect the price drastically differently. The ability to dump all the things you got from the market in under a minute is massive-- in two hours of playing each game, I think it's safe to say I could be playing Dungeonborne for 1h40m of that time compared to roughly an hour for Dark and Darker. The map rotation can introduce a wait time for the map you want on top of the already existing lobby filling wait time, and if you're successful, the market interface is so clunky that it can feel not worth your time to sell anything that you don't know through experience isn't several hundred gold or more. Dungeonborne is very simple-- if its more than 500 gold per slot, indicated by an ingame tooltip that tells you the price to merchant or price on market, then don't bother. Further, on extract, it tells you the rough gold value that you extracted with if you were to liquidate everything. Gold isn't an item, but rather a number attached to your whole account, and so you get to use your stash on the things that matter more. I was ecstatic to not be subject to the door meta anymore as a central determinant of combat.
That said, the theme cohesion of Dark and Darker is indisputably better. The sounds alone are so much more immersive-- the importance of foot steps is massive in Dark and Darker, while in Dungeonborne the closer parallel is whether or not use a weapon. Hitting a mob in Dungeonborne sends a massive sound cue out to most of the surrounding countryside and the sound isn't even vaguely the sound you'd think would emerge. Light being a factor matters much more in Dark and Darker as well-- Dungeonborne hardly has a reason to have torches other than that DaD did (same with the ability to turn off or on lights). The map variety is also indisputably better, and while the module system can feel like more of a maze when learning vs the natural builds from Dungeonborne, ultimately point to a better future with randomized map generation to counter precise map knowledge making the game a PvP rushdown within the first 30s of the game. And the differences are immense-- Goblin Caves are so different than Castle and Ice Caves, and them from each other, whereas Dungeonborne is almost like outside vs. inside.
I haven't seen anybody I'm genuinely convinced of cheating in Dungeonborne, whereas Dark and Darker rarely had a several hour session without one popping up. Factoring in the teaming that occurs in Dark and Darker is also worth noting, though you can also say the VOIP is much more lively in DaD as I haven't heard anybody VOIP in Dungeonborne even once (not my cup of tea, but I know that's important to people).
My Conclusion: Bang for the buck is unquestionably Dungeonborne, as you get the whole of its gameplay without even paying, but you get enough of DaD to determine if you enjoy it. For paid players, which I think you have to be for DaD to be fully enjoyed, I think playing whatever you find fun is perfectly fine. Loyalty to a company is amusing but unnecessary compared to enjoyment, as that is the purpose of the products. Both have things they do so much better than the competitor objectively, but most of it will be subjective, and you don't need to be validated externally to choose one over the other.
Thank you, for your objectivity.
MY husband makes me play this game and i absolutely hate every minute of it
which of the games?
Sounds like love to me, lol
Lucky i need to upgrade my gfs gpu before i can force her to play with me
@@ryan6daysaweek both
@@dino_nuggets7134 you should start thinking about ways to indirectly kill him, and see how long it takes for him to realize it's intentional
just play the game you enjoy, guys, objective ratings mean nothing if your having fun, i have 2k hours in dark and darker, i enjoy the game, but ive been recently having fun with dungeonborne, so just play the game thats most fun to you. objectively and imo dark and darker is better, but that doesn't mean you cant have fun with a different game.
Bros coping.😂 i downloaded dungeon borne and after seeing the UI looks worse than diablo 2 i uninstalled. The game is so ugly you cant even play it. Designed by students for sure.
@@Odyssey636 just ignore the part where i said dark and darker is better and your comment makes sense
@@Odyssey636 bro is allergic to reading comprehension
hey I know this isn't related to the video or your point but you said you have 2k hours in DaD, do you think that nonsense about Dimo cheating is true?
@@Scege i dont know or really care, there are so many cheaters in this game, it wouldn't make it that much different if the person cheating was a youtuber, especially in a genre like this.
blud just played 2000 hours in 11 days😭(I think you meant 2023 0:44)
He meant "as of 2024".
My opinion on Dungeonborne as a Dark and Darker player (don't take this review too seriously)
Why I dislike Dungeonborne:
-Reaction based combat - The person with the better reaction time (assuming you both have equal gear) usually wins
-Mono directional blocking (as long as you face the enemy with a shield up you will block an attack)
-Heavy/light attacks (light attacks can almost always be blocked no matter what and heavy attacks almost always go through blocks (basically rock paper scissors combat for melee fights)
-Positioning is a borderline useless tactic for melee fights, no matter where you are in most melee fights it's still up to just who has better gear and who has the better reaction time
-Most fights are just dps/gear checks, if the opponent is just better than you or if they have better gear they just win 90% of the time
-Chance based crit has no place in a extraction hardcore game
-Poorly optimized, the game stutters very often
-Some classes are completely broken when played right
-Very little variety, all classes are locked to a specific race and almost every skill/perk is not interchangeable with others making that specific class only useable with the same spells, unlike the perk/skill system in Dark and Darker which is more in depth
-Game looks terrible (in my opinion of course) a lot of inconsistencies with the map making things look out of place, it really looks like a chinese mobile game
-As of 2024, Dungeonborne has much less content than Dark and Darker, less maps, less enemies (DND has 2x the bosses and nearly 5x the enemies), less quests, less things to explore, less gear, etc
-Bugs, there are so many bugs
-Player market is RNG based? When placing an item on the market it doesn't keep its rolls and is rerolled when purchased unless you put it up on the auction house making you have to wait a long time for you to receive the money you deserve for that item. Why?
-Most non-melee classes like casters seem to just be stronger (if played right) than most melee classes even if the melee player is better than you
-The game feels incredibly clunky and mobile game-esque. Dark and Darker may also feel clunky in the beginning but later becomes more fluid and very comfortable, Dungeonborne never got any less clunky with more gameplay.
-The elephant in the room, Dungeonborne began when the Dark and Darker devs were under a legal battle under their game. Dungeonborne devs took this opportunity to create a very similar game to grab all the players attention to then make tons of money if Dark and Darker lost the lawsuit. They knew it would be a success since Dark and Darkers demo in 2022 had a peak of roughly 300k players. This is why the game looks and feels like an empty cash grab (because the devs original intentions were in fact that)
-In conclusion, Dungeonborne has some great ideas and has a lot of potential but it just seems that Dark and Darker just did what they did but better and first too. Dungeonborne definitely has some fun looking caster characters but playing the melee classes in this game (in my opinion is just a snooze fest). Why would you play a guy that just swings a sword when you can cast an ice storm and lob fireballs? At this point the game feels more like a magic focused game and should probably focus more on that. At the end of the day Dungeonborne has a horrendous melee system and a decent but clunky caster/range system.
edit: I took some points from Ryan that I agree with heavily and worked well in this review
You said it's a reaction based combat but then you say it's a dps/gear checks, bro what the hell were you trying to say? Some classes are broken 'when played right', what are they? And did you really think this doesn't apply to DaD? Chance based crits? Just hit their head it's 100% crit?? The only thing I agree with your 'review' is the RNG market cause yeah that system made the builds solely RNG. And btw the guy that made DaD himself stole the idea from his previous company that's why there was a lawsuit. Everyone's a thief.
dungeonborne the uniques and legendaries are on a drop timer so certain hours of the day for certain named items all the RMT/Cheaters are farming the names and controlling the market. Wouldnt take it too serious arena is cool
Wait for real? Has it been confirmed?
drop timers is a rumor that hasn't been confirmed
RUMOR
The only thing that revolves around a timer is the moon cycle is for the heirloom crafting materials like the moon pendant which is the material needed to craft an heirloom necklace. It's found in the training room, not in a live dungeon. Yet the Crown is found in dungeons. It's a material to craft legendary heirlooms, which are not as good as normal legendaries. It's a cheap, welfare item which has much less stats and stat slots.
I've found legendaries at all times of the day. Early morning, afternoon, evening and night.
You're misunderstood.
@@A_Goat It's not a timed-window, but a limited drop like in a day or something. Uniques and legendaries still have a drop chance but once they dropped it will be on a cooldown until it resets again
I haven’t played Dungeonborne but just watching the game footage I hate the esthetic. It looks so corny to me. It’s like the difference between Diablo II and III…
DaD looks like a game from 2013, dungeonborne looks like it's from 2018
@@呀咧呀咧 Yeah but dungeonborne looks like 2018 mobile game
@@wolololer nah, dungeonborne looks much great. You must mean DnD’s UI looks like mobile game, cause it’s so ugly.
@@呀咧呀咧 dungeonborne has better game play nuff said.
Ironmace forever - love the team and love their love for us. I’ll never forget the torrent playtest coming out even though news of the lawsuit dropped.
Im not a massive dark&darker fan but dungeonborne feels so incredibly cheap that I dont even think its an option
Walking, jumping, attacking & using abilities everything feels wayyy off
Finally someone gets it. The game at its core is so broken. The theme and style and stuff is whatever but the animations and character movements are so jank itll take years too fix.
Funny I feel the exact opposite way about Dungeonbourne and the same way you feel about dungeon born I feel about dark and darker. It's almost like there's games for different types of people
@@Psikick4 nope, dark and darker is slow, dungeonborne is weightless
Every ability feels like you are on tracks
Hitting a 20cm goblin with a 3m sword that has 50cm range deals 10% of its hp
everything feels like you are in a dream hitting things with pool noodles
@@TuriGamer nope that's how dark and darker feels to me.
@@Psikick4 weightlessness isnt subjective
its an observable fact
It's good that there's more developers trying to copy the DaD formula. I don't care who did it first. I don't own loyalty to neither Iron Mace nor any developer. If someone makes a similar game that's better than DaD, I'll play that instead, and if IM wants us to keep playing DaD, they should put the work and care the game deserves.
Finally a creator with a good piece of content about this topic
Dark And Darker mobile is more fun than dungeonborne
Dark and darker has a very big new player feature you didn't even talk about. You can have a knight volunteer player join you and teach you stuff in real time/ answer questions in game, without ever needing to use a third party app (discord)
Dungeonborne had the chest and cyclops before D&D, it was called "project crawl". Drungeonborne will eventually take the lead as it is more appealing to play, even right now Dungeonborne is catching up to D&D in active players and won't take long before they take the lead. This is coming from someone who had many more hours in D&D than Dungeonborne
As soon as I saw Summit popping a BLITZCRANK HOOK from 30 feet away as a death knight, I was just immediately uninterested. Positioning and kiting and chasing is not a thing. You're just there to slash at people like a mobile game.
mid opinion lmao. i love summit but bro struggled with both dark and darker and dungeonborne for a bit. can 100% confirm tho you dont just sit there and slash at people like a mobile game. If you think there is no positioning/kiting/chasing, you're wrong. You can do these things and get kills easier, thats kinda what those things do. Maybe if youre a light build that isnt supposed to chase you shouldnt chase type thing tho. hope youre enjoying DaD if you play that at least
DaD feels so much more unique I've never played a game like it specifically. Its so special.
it ain't even a question, dark and darker is miles ahead
I would hope so, its a year older isnt it?
@@MickeyDee420 It's two years older and Dungeonborne actually has more content already and is a lot more polished. I mostly play Dark and Darker and the community is on so much copium. DaD is addictive and has a nice dungeoncrawler vibe, but it's pretty piss poor quality. DaD has already copied several things from DB but idk if they will ever catch up to them. DaD is a much harder game to code.
@@Zistac7DaD is still in early access, it has endless room to grow and from what the devs have communicated to the players they have big things coming down the line. I think the only thing I dislike about Dungeonborne is how it looks/feels. It just feels more of an arcade style game which is just my opinion
@@Zistac7 what engine does DAD use? Db is unreAL no?
@@StickyTitan98 I agree on the stylization. And yeah, DaD still has a lot of potential, but I'm keeping my expectations grounded. They have been very, very slow to deliver so far.. they have had their reasons, but that doesn't change the reality.
Truth is dungeonborne is necessary competition for the company
I many hours in both. Each fill a certain roll in my gaming space. dungeonborne is way better when playing with casual gaming buddies, while dark and darker is better with a couple more serious buddies. I’m expecting dungeonborne will have way less of a hacker issue than dd which on high roller is terrible at the moment. And dungeonborne while much newer seems to have a better approach to class balancing changes so far. Dd is kind of shit with their balancing the ALWAYS either overtune a class or nerf it into oblivion. Still love dd and hope it will learn from some of db’s features and improve. If it doesn’t db might have the size and speed to improve much more quickly. We will see. For now I’m having a blast with both.
enjoying both games is the best result anyone can ask for, I am glad you are having fun with both games!
0:44 2k hours since august 2024? Impressive Ryan ;D
8:14 This is incorrect. You actually can sell whatever you want on the randomized market, but you need to buy access to the auction house where you can sell items as-is for however much you want. You can buy and sell on a basic level completely for free. :)
Edit: there's also no "free version" of the game. The game is entirely free to play. The only paid features are cosmetic skins and auction house listing privileges.
nah bro cuz if u get a purple with a set effect you're forced to sell it when it could be worth 30k+ on the vendor. 4k to the random seller or 30k in the auction. thats what you're losing.
@@vowish5319 yep! That's what I said.
There's such an insane RMT market for Dungeonborne right now, I was wondering at first how they were making money with only auction pass.
Both are good. Dark and Darker is more hardcore and immersive, Dungeonborne is more casual-friendly and arcade.
After playing DaD for a two months, installed dungeonborne to try it out.
First of all, god damn I laughed hard after eventually finding dungeonborne cyclops.
Laughed even more after killing him first try.
COMBAT:
Dark and Darker combat lacks mechanics (for the "Get Gud" comments, I peaked top 20 on my class leaderboards)
- blocking is suboptimal because your counter attack lands after your opponent's second swing
- parrying first person and third person animations do not match, making it extremelly inconsistent
- dodging is heavely tied to movement speed, when your opponent (is of a similar skill level, and) has more move speed than you, you can't dodge
- trading blows and aiming for more headshots than your opponents is unfun and does not require decision making
Dungeonborne combat mechanics feels responsive, allow mind games and is fun, at the expense of...
CUSTOMIZATION (combat-related):
Dungeonborne classes have less skill options and player expression, but I prefer 10x a class that has a single good core gameplay than a Dark and Darker class that has 10 different skills and a hunded possible combinations, but only 4 viable choices at best and 3 of them feels and plays the same.
Dark and Darker has hundreds of items, but every armor piece is just a minor stat difference, Dungeonborne cuts the boring parts and simplify it, making you spend less time in lobby and more time playing.
Less options is way, way easier to balance. In some time, DB will probably have about 15-20 classes with unique playstyles and a good enough balance, and Dark and Darker will still be struggling with nerfing one playstile of a class and accidentally making another playstyle much weaker (I'm looking at you Melee Warlock)
MENU:
Dark and Darker has lots more NPCs, but is it fun? Is it fun to click 10 different screens for the same result as 2 or 3? DB again cuts time losses on menu.
As sad as it is, for me, the big company "won" and made a better game in less time. Ironmace wasted a lot of its potential, time and resources with it's broken power structure and the "back and forth" changes
Dungeonborne is a shallow experience and is already dying before our eyes.
Put on shield master man, you can’t be longsword in sword and boarding without it, that’s why it “parry” isn’t fast enough. I assume you mean longsword and not a shield tho as blocking then attacking isn’t a “parry”.
Secondly the crafted items have lots of very strong stats and are generally up to 2xs the power level of their non crafted same rarity counterpart.
And if ur just trading blows ur not spacing well and that is indeed a skill issue my man, I hate to say it.
Dungeon borne is just brainless right click left click, whilst dark and darker hit boxes are by no means perfect they are FAR more skill expressive then mono direction blocking will ever be.
Finally the core gameplay loop of dungeon bornes pvp is getting frozen in place by a cryowiz from across the room, or 3 tapped by a sword masters flying sword ability in under 2 seconds. As a longsworder in dark and darker the fact you can’t even fully block damage in silly and is enough reason alone for me personally to put the game down until things change. No cool 1 hp clutches, and 0 ability to express any form or skill in a go disadvantage situation. Plus the gear diff is insane and cheaters/Rmt’er just farm the TIMED LEGENDARY DROPS. At least in dark and darker I can get my own legendaries and uniques in every run I do.
It’s also very clear you don’t really touch dark and darker as melee lock is one if not the strongest builds in the game as of now.!
@@Zorkalot
1 Obviously Shield Master fix it, but you really think it's okay that just 1 class can use blocks effectively?
1.1 Never said "parry" isn't fast enough, I said block and counter attack: that is for shields
2 Crafted or not, there is no mechanical difference between having a "Generic Chestpiece +2 Str" and a "Champion Armor +5 Str", just numbers.
3 I'm not trading blows, but all Exemplar and below are. And even in Demigod, you can do nothing except trade blows if you're fighting melee vs melee (without ranged meta bullshit) and your opponent has more MS than you. Try spacing against a ganking Sprinted fighter
4 If you think Dungeonborne is left click right click you probably didn't play it enough. Its rock paper scisors like traditional fighting games, with spacing for charging heavy attacks. Try the arena mode for like 5 matches and you'll get a grasp (or be clapped by dual swords spammers if you don't)
5 Cryowiz suffers from the same problem as Dnd Rogue, if he's in the right spot, you can't do nothing, if he isn't, he's dead. Maybe sometime both get balenced somehow.
6 Swordmaster Q (flying swords across the room) is blockable
7 Yeah I didn't touched DnD for a while, but it's not a surprise that Melee Lock is now strong, they can't balance Longsword/CrystalSword Phantomize BoC at the same time they balance Kris Dagger BSB. Every time they buff one they make the other OP, every time they nerf one, they make the other F tier (imagine having to change classes before shared stash because of this out of nowhere nerfs)
Thanks for your points, I'd like to discuss more but maybe I'll take a while to respond
dungeonbored is a snoozefest LOL
Bros on the best kush. Nothing about DBs combat feels responsive. It feels so cheap and mobile. Runescapes combat has better hit feedback and animations😂
Small correction: 24 or lower not 25. 25 puts you into the next bracket which stops at 124 and 125 means you're at the highest bracket where any gearscore can pop.
funfact dungeonborne has lots of lore, its on items, and other stuff, they are intending to make a proper story
I wish there was a straight up PVE mode in one of these games. Would be fun to dungeon dive with friends and not get ganked. As a result. Not sure I'll ever be able to get into them, even if I love the idea of them. Seems like a really cool dungeon delving style in these games.
Dark and darker by a long shot
Dungeonbourne auction items are only randomly rolled on the free side of the market. When you unlock / purchase the ability to sell you can then purchase for the stats you want.
23:47 I despise B-hopping in any combat-based game. It's so beyond unrealistic it's laughable. Bows/Slings (let alone bullet based ones that use it) shoot their projectiles fast enough that if you aim properly at the ranges this game is played at, you would not be dodging them. There's a reason shields were invented, and it's because B-hopping is *not* going to help *at all* in combat of any kind.
As much as I enjoy Dark & Darker, I also enjoy Dungeonborne's different direction. It's clear that it's newer though, and I think that if given enough time to fully flesh out their mechanics and system, it'll be able to flourish much better and maybe not take *over* dark and darker as much as it does fulfill a different niche. I think they need to go further from Dark & Darker's aesthetic, and just try and follow their own stylistic direction without Dark & Darker influence for them to make a truly unique game. I personally enjoy the intent of Dungeonborne a lot more, focusing more on character builds through prioritizing certain stats rather than a perk system, but in motion the game needs some fine-tuning before I think it will show real promise.
The biggest thing that Dungeonborne has going for it though is its community. Something about Dark & Darker seems to attract a very toxic community, I imagine it's the intensity of it. Dungeonborne has (at least from my experience) had noticeably less toxicity, which honestly makes the game significantly more bearable. Where I can't say I've had any good experience near Dark & Darker fans other than personal friends, Dungeonborne has had a bit more of an accepting nature in their fanbase, and that keeps me coming back to it. Not to say that makes the game better, but its niche market will find players flocking to it if people aren't constantly being put off by Dark & Darker's toxic community. Out of my friend group, I'm the only one in touch with Dark & Darker's community/discord, and it's usually just to stay in touch with balance-changes, and the little time I spend on there is extremely toxic. Their subreddit isn't any better, but that's kind of how most reddits are.
I do agree that Dark & Darker at the time of writing is a significantly more polished game, but that's probably because it's just had a lot more time *to* be polished in comparison, especially considering that not only did it begin development earlier, it also began development as P3 WAY before Project Crawl was announced. This is more a comparison of Alpha-testing and Beta-testing.
You should have tried Dungeonstalkers! It was recently under Playtest. It was a JRPG style on the fantasy-extraction genre, very fun to play with as well.
100% agreed. Dark and Darker all the way. I have 1k hour on Dad, maybe only 20 hours in Dungeonborne, but still...
The pvp in Dad is more intricate, gear progression is better, there's more content, quests are fun, etc.
One good point Dungeonborne has is that the skills for each class makes sense, as in, they mix pretty well. One example is the Death knight, that can grab you and use his other skill to keep you in place while dealing damage, or the Fighter who can dash into you and then spin/battle cry to fight you head on. And it makes sense that Dark and Darker dont have too much cohesion between them, because you can pick any of the skills, where in Dungeonborne they can only be on a specific slot, so you cannot mix them as you want
Thats actually one of the worst parts of the game😂
@@Odyssey636 Yea, you have basically no customization and builds are so cookie cutter in Dungeonborne... Them "Making sense" isn't really a good point.
DaD is much superior in both visual and gameplay design. I have no idea why Dungeonborne decided to re-use some of the same assets, if that's their selling point then it's worse game in same genre; but at the same time it isn't eveb that because Dungeonborne has such a different feel to it so it's more appropriate to be identified a mobile slasher/moba game.
Dungeonborne is like the EldenRing of soulsgames compared to dark and darker
I really like both of them. Maybe because Dungeonborne is new, but I have a lot of fun with it.
the comments are forgetting that Dungeonborne is good melee combat while Dark and Darker is 90% range combat / peeling / kiting
Totally agreed. People play it like an extraction shooter with full movespeed. Yey.
Weird i find dungeon borne to have some of the worst melee combat ive ever seen. Even against indie solo game devs. I find dark and darkers melee combat really smooth and good. You are complaining about meta. Something easily changed. Dungeon bornes combat cannot be fixed. At its core the animations and movement timings are broken and they dont have the dev experience to fix it.
And DB melee combat is still worse than DaD combat
@@Odyssey636 If balance is an easy issue to fix why ttk is 0.0 or 3 seconds rn
DB has dogmeat, slow, clunky melee combat and curretly has the most heinous ongoing meta.
Thank you for putting together this comprehensive comparison. I think a lot of the commentary on dungeon-borne I’ve seen has been polarized one way or the other.
I don’t know how dungeonborne hasn’t been sued yet by DaD
So in my analysis of trying both as a beginner and for beginners , it truly comes down to what it is what you’re looking for . I think Dungeonborne is a fun game and abit more fast paced but also a bit arcady but it’s a good game for a beginner or just any one in general who isn’t trying to be biased. D&D is a good gritty game where you feel the interaction of just killing someone or something , the game is edgy if you like that kind of thing which I do so i’m not shitting on it , It’s a good game but it’s actually really hard if you’re not smart enough. Another thing is why I prefer Dungeonborne abit is because D&D is a grinding hard kind of game , you literally have to grind your ass off and it will be very difficult for you to get into if you don’t have much time on your hands. So I’d say if you really just want to have a good time DB but if you want to have a good time on d&d you better work hard for it cause it will be rough for you until you do most of quest & get good gear. It’s unforgiving but i’d have to go with DB just a personal preference:) I’d still play d&d from time to time . another thing is you can’t compare the two games but only that DB Is inspired by D&D so you see some similarities but once you play it its actually different in its own way of going about it. I just wish DB had the same grit style of D&D and the dark atmosphere of it.
I've played both. Dungeonborne looks and plays better than dark and darker. Shit actually dies, you aren't locked behind a paywall and DB just looks and feels better both in graphics and animations.
How not to guess what you're going to get on dungeonborne market.... bid. Also Dungeonbornes "arena mode" is actually 3v3 tdm right now, actual arena comes out soon :)
I started with dungeonborne, and then realized DaD is better in just about every single way, and it's not even close
You're literally trying to make Dark and Darker look better. In the comparison of the combat system with Dungeonborn, you’ve only focused on light and heavy attacks, ignoring many other features. The funny part is that Dark and Darker is actually a game made up of just basic attacks, hahaha. It's tragicomic that you're trying to belittle a better game just because you've invested thousands of hours into it. I'm not even mentioning your explanation of the trade system. It really makes me wonder if you’ve actually played Dungeonborn?
Played 5 hrs and couldnt do it anymore dungeonborne is to comical in its attacks
Dark and darker was everyones first so yeah most people will say Dark and darker is better. Ive enjoyed both games.
Dungeonborne hasn't had as much time to cook as DaD, and I'm not opposed to it becoming a fun game. It still has the same issues that DaD currently has, and they haven't really put any twist in their game, other than making it slower and more basic.
Dungeonborne looks and feels like a dark and darker mobile game with *pegi 3+* 💀
13:00 hi Ryan, slight correction level 15 when you get all your perks “every 5 levels up to level 15 “ was what you should have said
15:40 you’ve never played 50 vigor bard????
dungeonborne just feels clunky, and that's saying a lot because dark and darker is clunky as hell
We say DaD is clunky but it's a strong sense of cohesion in it's mechanics... like, yes, it's slow in its movement and actions, but very deliberately so, with a very gritty realism aspect to it, such as the omnidirectional blocking/attacking, which I distinctinctly remember blowing my mind when I first started playing
It's clunky but in a good way, swinging huge weapons and moving a lot of equipment is gonna feel weigthy, it feels good to me most of the time
Dungeonborne looks even worse than greed is good was
Why many DnD supporters here?
1. This a channel for DnD contents. OF COURSE, viewers are mostly DnD players.
2. Most Dungeonborne players doesn't even give a fk about DnD, so they won't come watch this video or even leave a comment.
If you are picking which game to start with, the comment section of this video is not a good place for your reference.
Totally agree, the process of forging hierlooms is totally sick and dark and darker should steal it lmao, would be cool to see as the wipe progresses peoples gear score advances accordingly, while letting new players (and new to the wipe) have that progression as well.
people who say dungeonborne is better simply say it because it's easier to have succes in that game (since it's way easier and really really basic) dark and darker is superior in every aspect, besides of some much needed quality of like (aka dungeonborne's ingame market design) i really hope they make market usage in darker more fluid, because right now it's a chore. Other than that, dark and darker is so so so much better, not even a question.
So dungeonbornes customizable character faces, also an in game tutorial ,also an arena team death match none of which dark and darker has and it happens to be more fun to play coming from a guy with 2000 hours in dark and darker. Yeah I’ve been playing nothing but dungeonborne since it dropped.
Dark and Darker is a better game overall, the combat and gameplay has more depth, and there is a lot more content with multiple dungeons to explore and fight in.
I will say, in Dungeonborne I like how 'Arcadey' it feels, it feels like an oldschool mmorpg with better combat/collision. Gear progression in it doesn't have as much of an impact and the classes feel more balanced, but the loot gets pointless fast
One mistake is DaD is only about 2 years old. The first PT1 happened in August of 2022. It is just under 2 years old.
DaD has quite a bit of missing features and stuff but they are still very actively developing. I expect we will see a tutorial and other stuff sooner rather than later. I feel that its absence however was no accidental. They wanted the game to be more hardcore. Just like a souls game there is no real tutorial they just throw you at the first boss and say figure it out.
Release is not equivalent to development time though
(Not watched the video yet) Dark and Darker wins for me. I like that Dungeonborne exists because competition is always good, however when you think that DB's publisher is owned by Ten Cent i.e they have a near unlimited budget, vs DaD which has a mere fraction of money and manpower at their disposal... with this context, I'll always go with DaD. Ironmace, despite the hate they get (especially in the discord), have done a phenomenal job over the last couple years and overcame many adversities. DaD feels like a passion project made in to reality, DB feels like a competitor disguised as "indie" despite the triple A budget. Although I will concede DaD probably has a lot more potential for getting BS'd than DB does.
I look forward to seeing how the games develop over the years.
hope someone does a video just like this but not heavily biased towards one side and failing to research the other, made it halfway through tho
Dont forget, tencent owns Dubgeonborne. So automatic -1000000 score
what i never understood was the asset argument for dark and darker; in my opinion everything looks very consistent; if i would not know it i would think that all these models were made for this game and i think in the end that is what really matters; the problem usually arising with assets is inconsistency in the artstyle when using multiple packs and loosing your identity when its the same 8 bit sprite you already saw in 5 other games; i can´t say i felt like i saw any of the 3D models before in another game; the only thing i feel dungeonborne does better is that heirloom system; i wished there was a bit more progression ins dark and darker and the quest system feels pretty meh
Dungeonborne really feels like the Fortnite to Dark and Darker's PUBG
We all know how thay turned out
@@MikeHawkScales yep. They made a game that was very popular, but which I don't like to play
22:50 Why skip ranged combat? crossbows definitely exist, because rogues and fighters *start* with them.
I'm new to both games and I must say the new player experience is a bit different for me than what you described. As far as "tutorial" yes DB has a tutorial where it teaches you how to attack block and move. But as far as new player matches go, DB really really struggles. DB has a pretty rapidly decreasing player count (look at steam metrics) and as such they were forced to combine their US east, US west, and SA servers into 1 server called "Americas". This essentially shafts USe and SA players as the new server is USw based (though they have said they're trying to make it a US central server). People playing not in USe have significantly higher ping than USw players. And as a new player it's more difficult to tell if I'm dead to lag, or dead cuz bad.
Another huge problem with lower player numbers in DB is the matchmaking seems completely unbalanced. As a new player I'm guessing you're extremely lucky if you don't run into a heavily kitted, more experienced player in a casual match. You can go in with mostly white items and just a few greens or blues and go up against a kitted player with purples. And for a game that's much much more gear dependant, that's a very big problem.
The biggest draw that DB has over DD is in the free version you can make multiple characters. I still prefer DD but if they let a f2p player make multiple characters it would be a way bigger draw for the casual player like my friends and me.
Haven't played dungeonborne yet, but from what information I've gathered, it felt like the quality of life there are a lot better than DaD. If only Ironmace would dedicate some of their time improving player experience, rather than testing all their fancy new ideas.
Dungeonborne= more fun, DaD= better melee pvp combat mechanics (love longsword, zwei spacing etc.) at the end of the day I was #27 ALL in DaD and im current #1 SM on Dungeonborne and I do like Dungeonborne more. The arena is SICK!!!
I genuinely didn't expect to like dungeonborne at first after dark and darker, and I think I still prefer dark and darker.
However, dungeonborne actually feels kind of... good? Sometimes? I think the biggest advantage is feeling faster than dark and darker, the sloggyness of DaD hinders it a lot if you're not bis move speed.
Anyways, Good video! Love the idea. Always keep your mind open and ultimately; just play which game you like more.
depends what class u play, i felt like a slug on db, i also feel like a slug playing fighter or cleric on dnd
This comes from someone who likes POE as a main game. Dungeonbornes speed in combat is trash and its not skill expression. Its spam. I prefer fast games but a melee based pvp game deserves to be slow unless you are going to turn it into wow with action bars and active skills.
@@Odyssey636dude poe is brainrot casino for asians no-lifers, not a good achievement to boast about.
Great work comparing the games and highlighting the strengths and weaknesses of each.
I think the only thing this video misses is hardcore vs casual gamefeel. DB gives you damage numbers and block icons and other visual indicators to provide you with information that DaD purposely withholds. This creates a more arcadey MOBA feel to DB compared to the immersive hardcore dungeon crawl sim that is DaD.
Minor error in the start of the video, you say since August last year, but the graphic shows August 2024 instead of August 2023
Only thing that dungeonborne does do better is the F2P . They should add 2 character slots for F2Ps in dark and darker
When you look at some things Dungeonborne is doing better, and the graphics, you now they have a funder. So they are not completely indie studio, they are doing the game for some other studio and getting money from them... Ironmace doesn't have that, so development can be slow and clanky time to time, but atleast they have the heart and the passion do make this game what they dreamed of, and make it better for players aswell. Mithril don't have the heart or the passion, they are here just for the money, and they missed their chance to be only pvpve dungeon crawler game in Steam when DaD was not able to be there. Dungeonborne is just weird step sibling who wants to be like his big brother, and copies everything from him
dark and darker leave dungeon borne to dust with battle and stat system alone. when i try DB i really appreciate IRONMACE more. they really think about the game deeply.
Dungeonborne is by far the better game dark and darker will be known as the pubg of this genre famous for making it popular but flawed in every way
I'm in desperate need of your calm and collected guide to frost wyvern. Is that video in the works? If so, how soon haha?
DaD is better but it has had more time to refine things. Dungeonborne has a lot of nice things DaD should for sure steal. Dungeonborne also feels like an easier experience to get into the genre before moving up to a harder game. Like going from CoD to CS.
Great review overall. I would have personally preferred if you've put gameplay content or examples of what "visual clutter" is at 17:18. Furthermore, since gear diff is an issue to both games, you should have discussed also systems to avoid the gear diff thru maneuver or prior info (e.g. current system of lobby inspection, movement speed diff and door delaying in DaD). Questions like "Is player combat (and death) imminent if a higher GS player sees me" would be relevant. I personally don't know the in-game equivalent of those in Dungeonborne as I have not played the game but would still be good to put into perspective. Finally, A discussion about gearscore lobbies/matchmaking (e.g. DaD 0-24, 25-125, 125 plus, and 225 HR plus) would have also made a good comparative variable.
THe only thing dungeonborne has going for it is the market and how easy it is to sell stuff. You just click the item, it shows a graph of the past price listings what its going for currently and you can either adjust it or sell as. If Dark and Darker was able to streamline their market system in a similar way, then that's that.
Dungeonborne has so many quality-of-life improvements in comparison to DaD and lets you fuck around and find out with every class whenever you want. But the balance of this game and whatever the fuck the devs are doing... is a downward spiral. I wish the game actually pulled it off and grow, but so far it's not great. As for DaD, it's fun to play to some extent, but I grow to hate PvP so much there. And with the auction paywalled, I have no use of all the plundered loot.
I think Dark and Darker is better, Dungeonborne does a few things better such as the new player or f2p experience. Being able to try out the many classes is the main factor but theres other things like the heirloom system which makes losing forgiving and giving you something to progress even when you're still learning/losing. In Dark and Darker, you get only one character and can not try another class unless you delete it or pay money.
Doesn't incentivize people to pay, incentivizes them to quit. The only real incentive to pay is for trading, the rest are just counterintuitive and ruin player experience.
The other thing I like about DnD is the many nuances like how loot is set around the map, and how the objects like breakables might be worth interacting with for a new player looking for quick greens, potions, etc. So the map is more interactive.
In dungeonborne, the items around the map, and the breakables are few and far between. Aswell they are essentially not worth interacting with because they are so unrewarding.
Visually, dungeonborne is way more appealing. I have no idea what you're getting at here, but the bias for dark and darker is crazy. I like dark and darker more than dungeonborne, so don't get me wrong though. I just notice that there's so much more lighting, color, and generally better details inside dungeonborne over the murky and dank crypts of dark and darker. If you took any two random people on the planet and asked them for their opinion on which game looks better, 99% of them would choose dungeonborne.
Otherwise, the gameplay of dungeonborne is absolute garbage, and I particularly like the omni-directional combat of dark and darker much more. It adds another layer of skill expression outside of adding more buttons similar to the game "for honor" with it's melee combat. People are way too healthy as well, making the entire fight about who can whittle down the other opponent first before going in to finish the kill. It rewards annoying playstyles and doesn't punish anyone for it either.
Dark and Darker Mobile feels like Dungeonbourne and that says something :P
As a mostly DaD player who plays both, DB is easily the better game in terms of both overall quality and combat, but DaD has a better dungeoncrawler vibe. Edit: Giving DaD an 8/10 is hilarious. It's a cool game but it's a 6/10 at best and 4/10 through a critical viewpoint. This video is LOADED with false info as well. Your bias as a content creator is hilarious... DaD is doomed thanks to terrible takes like this.
"both overall quality and combat" ? you think dungeonborne is superior in these? you just lack rational thinking mate, sorry
@@koreanzombie6697 It has a nice basic tutorial, merchants are better, streamlined, and more responsive, 0 no regs, 0 rubberbanding, much less cheating, better ping, you can swap items in inventory, no bunny hopping, no stripping armor mid combat, no dsync, every class has counterplay for the others and has more extensive parrying and blocking mechanics, better healing (dark and darker recently copied it), a better resurrection system, etc. Look bro I like DaD but it's a janky fucking mess. I wish I liked the DB graphics more because I actually have fun playing that game while DaD is just fucking annoying to play half the time with the shitty PvE ai just standing there braindead yelling or getting rubberbanded into a corner. If you think DaD is better in terms of quality then I believe you are the one lacking rational thinking (which is probably why you provided none in your response) or you haven't even played DB enough to have a clue.
DB is simply much more well made. DaD is cooler. That's it
Dark and darker. I do think that they are already importing some cool quality of life things. Overall, it'd better health for both in the long run it seems.
IIRC dark and darker's first playtest was Aug 2022. So the game is 2 years old, not 3 years.
dad over Dungeonborne every day in the week !