Thank you for this post. I remember the crash of Ensign Hickman, although not his name. There have been a few pilots who made that same sacrifice, a few of them around Oceana Naval Air Station, where I lived for some years. Those pilots made the public a little more aware of both the dangers that pilots face, and the remarkable young men of that time who flew the aircraft. My dad spent about half his career on aircraft carriers. We attended enough funerals of pilots and crew killed in peacetime accidents that I became aware early on how peacetime operations had almost the same fatality rate as combat operations. The reason was that the Navy had learned that training *_HAD to approximate the tempo of combat operations so all the deck crew, munitions ratings, and air crew practiced and learned to function in the stressful environment of combat._* Hey, I'm just some guy. This is my understanding from conversations I've had with friends who have served in carrier flying. I welcome correction.
I don't understand why this video is stuffed with irrelevant shots of, in particular, A-4 Skyhawks. I see this in other videos. It's confusing for those who don't know the difference and annoying for those of us who do.
They are fighter planes, what do you want to call them, the Goose, the Chicken, the Cloud, and the Dipshit? They are supposed to sound badass and occult names are badass. If I designed a fighter I would call it the Death Stalker.
@@RichardKroboth Now that would have been badass. Opportunity missed. I hate how they name planes now, everything patriotic sounding or a football team mascot bullshit. Enough with the nonsense, call it like it is. The F-15 Murder, the F-22 Facefucker, the B-1 Genocide, the B-52 Pestilence, and the F-16, um Viper is cool so we will keep that.
Very cool! I was a kid growing up in north St Louis County, within a couple of miles of the McDonnell airplane factory at Lambert Field. We actually lived in the flight path for planes taking off, and landing. The exterior building shots are as familiar to me as my old neighborhood. I can remember the F4 testing, the engines howling at night in the hangars, the planes flying overhead by day. What a fantastic time to be a kid!
Me too! I grew up very near Lucas -Hunt. and Natural Bridge Rd. I ended up working for McDonnell Douglas for six years after college. When I was a kid, the Missouri ANG flew F-100 Super-Sabers and F4 Phantoms later. I lived on the approach to Lambert too!
Several of the video sections displayed were of the Douglas A4. The McDonnell F3H was at Squadron strength deployed aboard Saratoga CVA-60 on her "Med" cruise - Sept 1960 - Mar 61, when I served as a civilian tech rep. for VAH-9, with their A3Ds. The consensus among the Air Wing folks was that the "Demons" always sounded "hungry" and generated more sound than thrust. That was the only time I ever saw the F3H in service. I think they had a very short service life with the Navy.
The F-3H Demon wasn't quite what they wanted, but man did they get it right with their next plane, the F-4 Phantom II. The lineage is very obvious when you compare the F-3H's appearance to the F-4. The F-4 was probably the most well-built jet we've ever fielded. Durability and reliability that kept it in service far longer and with many more service hours per airframe compared to its contemporaries. In terms of the sheer value we got out of it and how long it was relevant, it's almost certainly the best fighter we've ever fielded.
sorry but nah...the F-15 Eagle is the best we've ever fielded, for all of the things you've mentioned...plus a whole lot more. 50 year old airframe, that while isn't the top in tech anymore is so viable their redesigning it, and remaking it into the F-15 Eagle II.
@@nadjasunflower1387 It's so stupid that they didn't call it the Super Eagle. Eagle II makes you think it's a different plane entirely and doesn't make sense when it's still clearly an Eagle.
@@WardenWolf yeah...i can see where your coming from. was about to be like meh. but then I stopped and took in what you said. Lighting / lighting II complete different planes. Thunderbolt / Thunderbolt II, Corsair / Corsair II complete diff planes. so you deffinately have a point i'd not even thought of. LOL besides, Super Eagle does have a certain panache to it. 😎
When I was in the USS Lexington CVA 16, 1961 thru 1964we carried the "screaming Demon".. That scream was from the pilot as it flamed out.. Saw it happen to two. Also one shot itself down by injesting debris from a missile shot in front of 100 Admirals and Generals from South American military.
The predecessor to the Phantom was the F101. Other than tail hooks , the Demon and Phantom haven’t much in common. GE had experience in turbochargers. Allison, P&W, Wright experience with supercharger blowers. Westinghouse experience was?..steam turbines. I think the Navy was browned by the USAF and wanted its own engine source. In the event, US manufacturers built licensed British engines from 1943 to the early 50s and Wright to the 60s. Concerning the Demon, note the curious absence of a boundary layer splitter plate on the inlet.
@@princybella5386 Got a source besides Wilkepedia?, I’d like to look into it. The F101 and F4 share both have twin engine installations, inlet spliiter, ogive nose, dual cockpits and …. What do you see from the Demon in the F4? The Super Demon was a paper exercise and carried the name more than the substance, but that is likely lost. But to quote Rhett Butler in Gone With the Wind, “Frankly Dear, I don’t give a damn.” I won’t lose sleep either way. Cheers
What always stuns me is how many different aircraft the US fielded in the 50s and 60s. It was absolutely insane! The MIC was fully in control of procurement.
Near the end of the video, it mentions that the last squadron to have Demons was VF-161 on Oriskany. My father was a pilot with this squadron on that cruise.
Yeah, and that lion statue looks exactly like the ones in front of the Art Institute in Chicago. ETA: Just took another look at that image, and you can see the City of Chicago's flag above the lion's rump, and the Prudential Building just behind the lion's head.
These are some things about this era of jets that I thought about while listening to this video. The J34 was the only truly successful turbojet built by Westinghouse. They are STILL running around on drag strips over 60 years later, often still operating as they were when sold as surplus long ago, no overhaul. Unfortunately, those engines were rather underperforming when released but that was an era of rapid advancements and changes- those were first generation fighter jets that were not yet supersonic. The J-34’s are widely considered to be the bane of the X-3 Stiletto project, which is in my opinion the most beautifully advanced aircraft ever created. That program commenced in 1949. It was fortunate for them that she was underpowered because they had problems with the deadly new phenomena of inertial coupling which was something that the engineers were not yet familiar with. That aircraft was significantly influential on the successful yet also dangerous F-104 Starfighter. Back to the J-34’s, the only aircraft powered by the -36 version of the J-34 was the twin engine F3D-2 “Skyknight.” It was a night fighter used exclusively by the Marine Corps in the Korean War, which destroyed more enemy planes than any other Navy or Marine Corps type in use- there were only 265 Skyknights were produced. That prototype first flew in 1948. The better known F-86 Sabre was a USAF jet- almost 10,000 units were produced. The F-86 is the most easily recognized US fighter jet of that era. Anyway… back to the Skyknight. It was not very respected by the pilot community for several reasons… in addition to being considered to be rather ugly. Just remember- they were primarily escorting the piston prop-driven B-29’s in Korea- This was a very awkard time of transition with underperforming jets trying to work with well-developed, combat-proven, war-winning propeller bombers. Yet, B-29’s Cruised at 220mph and their top speed was 357mph. The Skyknight cruised at 455mph. Obviously, these are very mis-matched operating speeds and jets are not safe,responsive or efficient when operating well under their intended range of operations. Here’s the thing- The Skyknight led to the Douglas F6D Missileer project which was a proposed carrier-based fleet defense fighter designed by the Douglas Aircraft Company in response to a 1959 United States Navy requirement. It never even reached prototype stage BUT it was designed to be able to loiter for extended periods at a relatively long distance from the Navy's aircraft carriers, engaging hostile aircraft 100 miles (160 km) away with its powerful radar and long-range missiles. Since the enemy would be fired on long before they reached visual range, the aircraft had little dogfighting capability and was strictly subsonic. When doubts were expressed about the Missileer's ability to defend itself after firing its missiles, the value of the project was questioned, leading to its cancellation. Yet, some of the Missileer's systems, primarily the engines intended to re-power this re-worked Skyknight, the Pratt&Whitney TF-30 turbofan (as well as radar&missile systems) continued development in spite of the aircraft cancellation, eventually emerging on the ill-fated General Dynamics-Grumman F-111B and another jet you may have heard of… The Grumman F-14 Tomcat. Many vehicular designs throughout history were so far ahead of their time that the engines or construction techniques were simply not yet available. You can really see that in the work of Leonardo Da Vinci. Just because some of these aircraft,engine and system designs seem liked failures at first glance they were often crucial components of the process to solve these problems and achieve&maintain air superiority.
@@MichaelBisbee Thank You- Perhaps I will,eventually! In the meantime, if you find this era interesting you should look into all the X-planes from the X-program if you haven’t already, especially the X-1,the whole story of the M2-F1,the X-3 and the X-15. That program went from breaking the Sound Barrier in 1947 to the First Flight of the X-15 (which is still the Fastest Plane ever Flown)… in 12 years. They went from dropping them from B-29’s to using B-52’s… in one step. I think that those who still read (like yourself) are more likely to grasp the immensity of achievement of this era than are people who watch videos and then just forget them. Nevertheless, here on RUclips, Airboyd does have a vast library of original footage and documentaries that cover all Aerospace History. Ad Astra Per Astra
You do realize some of those GARBAGE J-34's live on-burning Avgas-on a few remaining P2V's used for aerial firefighting. Neptune Aviation home base KMSO. Much hope was placed on the J-40 engine. And it laid a HUGE egg. Think Westinghouse swallowed much more than they could chew. And with Pratt & Whitney as well as General Electric's emergence into the market-they were done for.
@@nadjasunflower1387 The never-even-a-functional-prototype definitely contributed. It was a consistent trend in that time period. They really wanted to repower and rework that Skyknight for what it did best and the new engines were great but that subsonic platform had to go. It was also the beginning of the Rise of the RIO!
Naval aircraft designations before McNamara was: F3H (no dash), third fighter from McDonnell (H). -1, etc were variants. So the Phantom II was initially F4H, the fourth fighter from McDonnell. USAF designation was F-110. After McNamara, it kept the similar designation of F-4 (with the dash) along with the F8U (F-8) A3D (A-3) and A4D (A-4) Similar designations were changed, A3J became the A-5, AD became the A-1.
After McDonell dropped the Westing House XJ-40 and installed the Allison J-71 the Demon proved satisfactory. Was in service all the way to 1965 because it was a decent Sparrow missle platform while the Navy was building up its F4B Phantom fleet.
I am in total agreement as an Avid fan of military aircraft it annoys me to no end when the wrong jets are in war movies or documentaries but I understand finding the footage is hard if the planes weren't heavily filmed by the military. Still I wish that if they couldn't find the footage at least they could have used AI generated footage. AI can generate some very realistic footage nowadays. I'm guessing no budget for graphics?
In 1959, VF41, BLACK ACES, NORFOLK Won the 4th Top GUN competition at Point Magu southern California. My father was instrumental in that win with his contributions on the Sparrow Missle modifications. Dad served on the Independence, Intrepid and Forrestal.
Not a complaint about the footage. My complaint is about the RUclipsr's trope that pilots of 50s/60s jets were incredibly brave just to take off in them. Yeah, accident rates were higher then than now but the way you go on, it's like it was the first day on the Somme.
Like other comments, the inclusion of A4 Skyhawks, An F11F Tiger, A F4D Skyray, and the F8 Crusader are a bit distracting. However those jets were introduced around the same time. As far as the J40 engine, it was also going to be used in the F4D Skyray. Ed Heineman, Douglas’ head designer saw the issues with the J40 and decided to change the F4Ds interior to accommodate the J57. I wonder if the Demon had been a little better how it would have faired in Vietnam. Same for the F4D Skyray, which actually lasted in the reserves into the late 1960s.
Hey, here's an idea: let's make a video about the F-3 Demon, but show the A-4 Skyhawk and F-4 phantom through half the video, that'd be a hoot! LMAO. Great video though, keep it up!
McDonnell Douglas advised the US Government not to use this engine. The production aircraft were towed from the factory to the St. Louis river front and loaded on barges to ship to Memphis. McDonnell Douglas built the airgrames but the customer (US Government) selects the power plants.
Echos of the Marine pilot who bailed out over Clairemont, where his F-18 hit a house killing two people. Was found to be at fault for running out of fuel, and not diverting to NAS North Island where he would've been able to land. Get-there-itis trying to get back to Miramar caused two deaths, a multi-million dollar aircraft, and more...
I think they used Hickman's story of the school in the 1970 movie Sole Survivor but the outcome was bad for the children in that movie. Very good video and I always wondered if that story was true, albeit the opposite outcome, for the movie.
You’d think with all the engine updates, they would have found a suitable engine to push the thing. Imagine: a fighter that needed the guns removed to save weight…..that must have been a real inspiration to its pilots.
As a former Navy pilot (born the year this happened), I object to your use of the current inane, overused and misused term "insane" with regards to the pilots who flew these early aircraft. These men were anything but "insane". Actions such as those exhibited by E-1 Hickman were quite sane and powerfully selfless to save the school at his own peril. You can throw that word at those in procurement within the Pentagon, perhaps. Or just try to not use "trendy" idiotic, addlepated vocabulary to sell your channel. And your misuse of crash footage at about 3:50 is NOT of a Demon but a F-9F Panther. Get a clue, do some research, try harder.
Dear Sir, I am deeply offended for the political incorrect term that you use and it traumatized me, i.e. Former Navy Pilot, since once a Navy Pilot always a Navy Pilot. I hope that your comment will not arrive in DEI authorities. Have a good weekend.
Can you imagine what it’d be like for us airplane geeks to be able to go back in time to the late fourties’ to the early sixties and just duel over the different types of aircraft than flying or in testing Or in development, not to mention the old aircraft that still weren’t old back then
While the video does serve some purpose, I think some of you focus on its narrative way too much and get upset at some pixels instead of what narrator is actually saying. It’s best to listen because you can probably figure that military footage from the 50s and 60s will be surprisingly limited. You can’t deny that this person does good research and puts up some key pictures of the aircraft he’s talking about. It’s okay to have B-roll
The really sad thing is they never got to see what the Demon could really have been. Entered service in 1956....the F8U Crusader made its first flight the prior year and entered the fleet in 1957. And it was miles ahead of the Demon when it was brand new, let alone successive models. If the F3H had been given a proper engine from the start, it could have been a real world beater. The J57 that powered the F8U was a little more than half the length of the Demon's J71, but they were 0.5 inch different in diameter. And the J57 proved to be far more reliable--and more powerful. Imagine a Demon with that engine. The two aircraft were actually fairly comparable in weight as well....and the Crusader went supersonic easily in level flight on its very first flight.
Doesnt that mean, that the Aircraft itself could had been great if they had gotten access to a proper engine? Adding Countermeasures, Better Sidwinders like Aim-9Es and more advanced Sparrows and better Radar, that thing could have served up to the Vietnam war. Speed shouldnt had been an Issue since the A-7 and A-4 as well as the A-6 were still alot slower.
Baby Phantom. What if it had two engines?....... Why show the A-4 so often? A Yak-28 crew did the same thing as Hickman over Berlin about the same time - both crew went down with the plane into a lake rather than smash into urban areas.
Like most US fighters of the era, the Demon was underpowered and the engines unreliable. The US Axial Flow jet engines all failed and it was not until the J-57, the first reliable US Axial Flow jet engine appeared in 1955 that the designs became reliable.
@@stevenrobinson2381 Both engines were used in a long list of failed airceaft. The J-47 was better but thr RR Nene had the same output 3 years earlier and was considered more reliable
At 0:05 into the video, you're talking about the skies over San Diego, but you're show one of the lions in front of The Art Institute of Chicago. Looks like the camera was 1730 miles out of focus. Anybody recognize the pilot sitting to the right at 11:05? He's famous.
Please could you use you story telling skills to cover the story from 1968 when an RAF Hunter pilot illegally flew through Tower Bridge London to commemorate the RAF's 50th anniversary. Its a cool story more people should hear about.
The J34 was the only truly successful turbojet built by Westinghouse. They are STILL running around on drag strips over 60 years later, often still operating as they were when sold as surplus long ago, no overhaul. Unfortunately, those engines were rather underperforming when released but that was an era of rapid advancements and changes- those were first generation fighter jets that were not yet supersonic. The J-34’s are widely considered to be the bane of the X-3 Stiletto project, which is in my opinion the most beautifully advanced aircraft ever created… the program commenced in 1949. It was fortunate for them that she was underpowered because they had problems with inertial coupling which was something that the engineers were not yet familiar with. That aircraft was significantly influential on the successful yet dangerous F-104 Starfighter. Back to the J-34’s,though- they are reliable engines. The only aircraft powered by the -36 version of the J-34 was the twin engine F3D-2 “Skyknight.” It was a night fighter used exclusively by the Marine Corps in the Korean War, which destroyed more enemy planes than any other Navy or Marine Corps type in use- there were only 265 Skyknights were produced. That prototype first flew in 1948. The better known F-86 Sabre was a USAF jet- almost 10,000 units were produced. It is the most easily recognized US fighter jet of that era. Anyway, the Skyknight was not very respected by the pilot community for several reasons. Just remember- they were primarily escorting the piston prop-driven B-29’s in Korea- This was a very awkard time of transition with underperforming jets trying to work with well-developed, combat-proven, war-winning propeller bombers. Here’s the thing (engines aside)- The Skyknight led to the Douglas F6D Missileer project which was a proposed carrier-based fleet defense fighter designed by Douglas Aircraft Company in response to a 1959 United States Navy requirement. It was designed to be able to loiter for extended periods at a relatively long distance from the Navy's aircraft carriers, engaging hostile aircraft 100 miles (160 km) away with its powerful radar and long-range missiles. Since the enemy would be fired on long before they reached visual range, the aircraft had little dogfighting capability and was strictly subsonic. When doubts were expressed about the Missileer's ability to defend itself after firing its missiles, the value of the project was questioned, leading to its cancellation. Some of the Missileer's systems, (primarily the engines, radar, and missiles) continued development in spite of the cancellation, eventually emerging on the ill-fated General Dynamics-Grumman F-111B and another jet you may have heard of… The Grumman F-14 Tomcat. Many designs throughout history were so far ahead of their time that the engines or construction techniques were simply not yet available. You can really see that in the work of Leonardo Da Vinci.
Yes! My Westinghouse fridge lasted for 10 years in the kitchen and another 3 in the garage (where it held only beer and smoked meats). That motor hummed away without interruption. Best fridge I ever had... sigh.
"Opened the canopy and frantically waved at the children below, urging them to take cover." That description of the event is not realistic. It was a "made for non-flyers" narrative.
Why show an A4 in many shots in this video while talking about the F3 Demon??? It kinda ruins the video which was actually very good, before tue A4s were shown. People expect much more accuracy from documentary videos like this.
Call me a bit of a superstitious old fool, but maybe aircraft manufacturers and the military might refrain from using the word DEMON in designating their fighting equipment in the future.
😅😂 Oh my! In this one, we have the head of a company "personally redacting a letter to Washington" and the leader of a country worried about "coops" instead of coup d'etats! Oh its too funny, 😆!
I'd be glad to check your B footage so your videos don't have A-4 Skyhawks pretending to be your Demons, or any such mistakes. I love your videos, but it kills me everytime the wrong aircraft is displayed. I had the same problem growing up when TV would cringe just the same.
![BRASIL vs. PERÚ [4-0] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 10](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tbyOJKXfQnI/mqdefault.jpg)
When the president of the manufacturing company sends a letter saying 'don't use our product', you should probably listen.
Yeah, and he sat down and "personally redacted" it off to Washington😅😂
Thank you for this post. I remember the crash of Ensign Hickman, although not his name. There have been a few pilots who made that same sacrifice, a few of them around Oceana Naval Air Station, where I lived for some years. Those pilots made the public a little more aware of both the dangers that pilots face, and the remarkable young men of that time who flew the aircraft.
My dad spent about half his career on aircraft carriers. We attended enough funerals of pilots and crew killed in peacetime accidents that I became aware early on how peacetime operations had almost the same fatality rate as combat operations. The reason was that the Navy had learned that training *_HAD to approximate the tempo of combat operations so all the deck crew, munitions ratings, and air crew practiced and learned to function in the stressful environment of combat._*
Hey, I'm just some guy. This is my understanding from conversations I've had with friends who have served in carrier flying. I welcome correction.
Nice view of A-4 Skyhawks
And even an F-4 Phantom at one point, way before talking about the adoption of the F-4.
Yes we are all impressed with your ability to spot an A-4…..he’s making a video with the footage he has available in the time he has available….
@@Dreadnought16 He has all the time he cares to take to get it right. No one is forcing release of sloppy work. That is ALL voluntary.
I don't understand why this video is stuffed with irrelevant shots of, in particular, A-4 Skyhawks. I see this in other videos. It's confusing for those who don't know the difference and annoying for those of us who do.
If that bothers you, every other video on this channel is gonna really bug you then.
Make your own channel dude.
I have been shouting that at the screen.
It's just video making especially when they lack technical data, but I see the F-4 phantom in its blood 😮😊
I find this iritating too. The contant loop of the same video irks me.
McDonnell Douglas has always named their aircraft after the occult, Demon, Phantom, Voodoo, Goblin.
Mainly McDonnell, until the merger.
They are fighter planes, what do you want to call them, the Goose, the Chicken, the Cloud, and the Dipshit? They are supposed to sound badass and occult names are badass. If I designed a fighter I would call it the Death Stalker.
@@tedwojtasik8781 There was a Grumman Goose! Not an air-to-air fighter but it was a U-boat killer!
The F4 Phantom II was originally going to be called The Satan. They had second thoughts about that and went with the Phantom II.
@@RichardKroboth Now that would have been badass. Opportunity missed. I hate how they name planes now, everything patriotic sounding or a football team mascot bullshit. Enough with the nonsense, call it like it is. The F-15 Murder, the F-22 Facefucker, the B-1 Genocide, the B-52 Pestilence, and the F-16, um Viper is cool so we will keep that.
Very cool! I was a kid growing up in north St Louis County, within a couple of miles of the McDonnell airplane factory at Lambert Field. We actually lived in the flight path for planes taking off, and landing. The exterior building shots are as familiar to me as my old neighborhood. I can remember the F4 testing, the engines howling at night in the hangars, the planes flying overhead by day. What a fantastic time to be a kid!
Me too! I grew up very near Lucas -Hunt. and Natural Bridge Rd. I ended up working for McDonnell Douglas for six years after college. When I was a kid, the Missouri ANG flew F-100 Super-Sabers and F4 Phantoms later. I lived on the approach to Lambert too!
Several of the video sections displayed were of the Douglas A4. The McDonnell F3H was at Squadron strength deployed aboard Saratoga CVA-60 on her "Med" cruise - Sept 1960 - Mar 61, when I served as a civilian tech rep. for VAH-9, with their A3Ds. The consensus among the Air Wing folks was that the "Demons" always sounded "hungry" and generated more sound than thrust. That was the only time I ever saw the F3H in service. I think they had a very short service life with the Navy.
The F-3H Demon wasn't quite what they wanted, but man did they get it right with their next plane, the F-4 Phantom II. The lineage is very obvious when you compare the F-3H's appearance to the F-4. The F-4 was probably the most well-built jet we've ever fielded. Durability and reliability that kept it in service far longer and with many more service hours per airframe compared to its contemporaries. In terms of the sheer value we got out of it and how long it was relevant, it's almost certainly the best fighter we've ever fielded.
You've obviously never flown the F-4. It had a notoriously fragile hydraulic system.
It deposited my Dad into the Sea of Japan in 1968.
sorry but nah...the F-15 Eagle is the best we've ever fielded, for all of the things you've mentioned...plus a whole lot more. 50 year old airframe, that while isn't the top in tech anymore is so viable their redesigning it, and remaking it into the F-15 Eagle II.
@@nadjasunflower1387 It's so stupid that they didn't call it the Super Eagle. Eagle II makes you think it's a different plane entirely and doesn't make sense when it's still clearly an Eagle.
@@WardenWolf yeah...i can see where your coming from. was about to be like meh. but then I stopped and took in what you said. Lighting / lighting II complete different planes. Thunderbolt / Thunderbolt II, Corsair / Corsair II complete diff planes. so you deffinately have a point i'd not even thought of. LOL besides, Super Eagle does have a certain panache to it. 😎
AI at work.
They'd show the F-3 and all could see is how it inspired the F-4. There is no denying those lines...
Yeah, it is said is direct lineage, they just didn't want to call it the demon considering the bad reputation, so they called it the phantom 2 instead
And the 101
The cockpit totally reminds you of a Phantom yeah.
The B-57B on the other hand had a Upper Cockpit resemling an F-14 xD
There are photos of a mock up 2 engine demon...looks like a very early pre productio / test prototype of the Phantom.
@@dariuszrutkowski420
Ähzm
This is covered at the end of the video actually ^^
When I was in the USS Lexington CVA 16, 1961 thru 1964we carried the "screaming Demon".. That scream was from the pilot as it flamed out.. Saw it happen to two. Also one shot itself down by injesting debris from a missile shot in front of 100 Admirals and Generals from South American military.
The predecessor to the Phantom was the F101. Other than tail hooks , the Demon and Phantom haven’t much in common.
GE had experience in turbochargers. Allison, P&W, Wright experience with supercharger blowers. Westinghouse experience was?..steam turbines. I think the Navy was browned by the USAF and wanted its own engine source. In the event, US manufacturers built licensed British engines from 1943 to the early 50s and Wright to the 60s.
Concerning the Demon, note the curious absence of a boundary layer splitter plate on the inlet.
Uh-No McDonnell is on Record that the F-4 was based on an advanced "Super Demon".
@@princybella5386 Got a source besides Wilkepedia?, I’d like to look into it. The F101 and F4 share both have twin engine installations, inlet spliiter, ogive nose, dual cockpits and …. What do you see from the Demon in the F4? The Super Demon was a paper exercise and carried the name more than the substance, but that is likely lost.
But to quote Rhett Butler in Gone With the Wind, “Frankly Dear, I don’t give a damn.” I won’t lose sleep either way. Cheers
What always stuns me is how many different aircraft the US fielded in the 50s and 60s. It was absolutely insane! The MIC was fully in control of procurement.
Did they get involved in defence exorcises?
To me, it looks like the forerunner to the Skyhawk, another iconic aircraft.
That's because most of the video is showing actual A-4 Skyhawks.
My dad was a Demon Dr in VF-31 USS SARATOGA. A very proud veteran patriot and sailor. I MISS YOU POPS and your stories
Near the end of the video, it mentions that the last squadron to have Demons was VF-161 on Oriskany. My father was a pilot with this squadron on that cruise.
*shows Niagara falls* “Skys over San Diego”
Yeah, and that lion statue looks exactly like the ones in front of the Art Institute in Chicago.
ETA: Just took another look at that image, and you can see the City of Chicago's flag above the lion's rump, and the Prudential Building just behind the lion's head.
Ensign Hickman stayed with it all the way through to the "end"
What amazing resolve and nerves (and balls) of steel
These are some things about this era of jets that I thought about while listening to this video.
The J34 was the only truly successful turbojet built by Westinghouse.
They are STILL running around on drag strips over 60 years later,
often still operating as they were when sold as surplus long ago,
no overhaul.
Unfortunately,
those engines were rather underperforming when released but that was an era of rapid advancements and changes-
those were first generation fighter jets that were not yet supersonic.
The J-34’s are widely considered to be the bane of the X-3 Stiletto project,
which is in my opinion the most beautifully advanced aircraft ever created.
That program commenced in 1949.
It was fortunate for them that she was underpowered because they had problems with the deadly new phenomena of
inertial coupling which was something that the engineers were not yet familiar with.
That aircraft was significantly influential on the successful yet also dangerous F-104 Starfighter.
Back to the J-34’s,
the only aircraft powered by the -36 version of the J-34 was the
twin engine F3D-2 “Skyknight.”
It was a night fighter used exclusively by the Marine Corps in the Korean War, which destroyed more enemy planes than any other Navy or Marine Corps type in use-
there were only 265 Skyknights were produced.
That prototype first flew in 1948.
The better known F-86 Sabre was a USAF jet-
almost 10,000 units were produced.
The F-86 is the most easily recognized US fighter jet of that era.
Anyway…
back to the Skyknight.
It was not very respected by the pilot community for several reasons…
in addition to being considered to be rather ugly.
Just remember-
they were primarily escorting the piston prop-driven B-29’s in Korea-
This was a very awkard time of transition with underperforming jets trying to work with well-developed, combat-proven, war-winning propeller bombers.
Yet,
B-29’s Cruised at 220mph and their top speed was
357mph.
The Skyknight cruised at
455mph.
Obviously,
these are very
mis-matched operating speeds and jets are not safe,responsive or efficient when operating well under their intended range of operations.
Here’s the thing-
The Skyknight led to the Douglas F6D Missileer project which was a proposed carrier-based fleet defense fighter designed by the
Douglas Aircraft Company in response to a 1959 United States Navy requirement.
It never even reached prototype stage
BUT
it was designed to be able to loiter for extended periods at a relatively long distance from the Navy's aircraft carriers, engaging hostile aircraft 100 miles (160 km) away with its powerful radar and long-range missiles.
Since the enemy would be fired on long before they reached visual range,
the aircraft had little dogfighting capability and was strictly subsonic.
When doubts were expressed about the Missileer's ability to defend itself after firing its missiles,
the value of the project was questioned, leading to its cancellation.
Yet,
some of the Missileer's systems,
primarily the engines intended to re-power this re-worked Skyknight,
the Pratt&Whitney TF-30 turbofan
(as well as radar&missile systems) continued development in spite of the aircraft cancellation,
eventually emerging on the ill-fated General Dynamics-Grumman F-111B and another jet you may have heard of…
The Grumman F-14 Tomcat.
Many vehicular designs throughout history were so far ahead of their time that the engines or construction techniques were simply not yet available.
You can really see that in the work of
Leonardo Da Vinci.
Just because some of these aircraft,engine and system designs seem liked failures at first glance they were often crucial components of the process to solve these problems and achieve&maintain
air superiority.
Holy cow man, make your own video! I did read it all though.
@@MichaelBisbee
Thank You-
Perhaps I will,eventually!
In the meantime,
if you find this era interesting
you should look into all the
X-planes from the X-program if you haven’t already,
especially the X-1,the whole story of the M2-F1,the X-3 and the X-15.
That program went from breaking the Sound Barrier in 1947 to the First Flight of the X-15
(which is still the Fastest Plane ever Flown)…
in 12 years.
They went from dropping them from B-29’s to using B-52’s…
in one step.
I think that those who still read
(like yourself)
are more likely to grasp the immensity of achievement
of this era than are people who watch videos and then just forget them.
Nevertheless,
here on RUclips,
Airboyd does have a vast library of original footage and documentaries that cover all Aerospace History.
Ad Astra Per Astra
You do realize some of those GARBAGE J-34's live on-burning Avgas-on a few remaining P2V's used for aerial firefighting. Neptune Aviation home base KMSO.
Much hope was placed on the J-40 engine. And it laid a HUGE egg.
Think Westinghouse swallowed much more than they could chew. And with Pratt & Whitney as well as General Electric's emergence into the market-they were done for.
agree with MB. lol loved learning all of that info. But it was nice to see how a string of failures led to the F-14.
@@nadjasunflower1387
The never-even-a-functional-prototype definitely contributed.
It was a consistent trend in that time period.
They really wanted to repower and rework that Skyknight for what it did best and the new engines were great but that subsonic platform had to go.
It was also the beginning of the
Rise of the RIO!
U should have included another couple dozen clips of ppl staring up at the sky 🙂
Naval aircraft designations before McNamara was: F3H (no dash), third fighter from McDonnell (H).
-1, etc were variants.
So the Phantom II was initially F4H, the fourth fighter from McDonnell. USAF designation was F-110.
After McNamara, it kept the similar designation of F-4 (with the dash) along with the F8U (F-8) A3D (A-3) and A4D (A-4)
Similar designations were changed, A3J became the A-5, AD became the A-1.
After McDonell dropped the Westing House XJ-40 and installed the Allison J-71 the Demon proved satisfactory. Was in service all the way to 1965 because it was a decent Sparrow missle platform while the Navy was building up its F4B Phantom fleet.
A great video, but it would have been better if you used F-4H footage and not A-4 Skyhawk and F-4 Phantom footage.
Ahhh the Navy’s special naming system. Nothing quite like it, or at least that’s what we hope!
I am in total agreement as an Avid fan of military aircraft it annoys me to no end when the wrong jets are in war movies or documentaries but I understand finding the footage is hard if the planes weren't heavily filmed by the military. Still I wish that if they couldn't find the footage at least they could have used AI generated footage. AI can generate some very realistic footage nowadays. I'm guessing no budget for graphics?
I’m sure there are enough still photos of the Demons to fill in the spots of the wrong aircraft footage. Kinda irks me too.
@@mr.badnewsreviere2005fuckin cry about it
I agree. The F4 and A4 are two of my favorite aircraft. I hate seeing the wrong aircraft being used in videos like this.
In 1959, VF41, BLACK ACES, NORFOLK Won the 4th Top GUN competition at Point Magu southern California. My father was instrumental in that win with his contributions on the Sparrow Missle modifications. Dad served on the Independence, Intrepid and Forrestal.
Not a complaint about the footage.
My complaint is about the RUclipsr's trope that pilots of 50s/60s jets were incredibly brave just to take off in them. Yeah, accident rates were higher then than now but the way you go on, it's like it was the first day on the Somme.
Modern pilots: safety and professionalism
60s pilots: So this thing is basically a death machine good luck bro
Like other comments, the inclusion of A4 Skyhawks, An F11F Tiger, A F4D Skyray, and the F8 Crusader are a bit distracting. However those jets were introduced around the same time. As far as the J40 engine, it was also going to be used in the F4D Skyray. Ed Heineman, Douglas’ head designer saw the issues with the J40 and decided to change the F4Ds interior to accommodate the J57. I wonder if the Demon had been a little better how it would have faired in Vietnam. Same for the F4D Skyray, which actually lasted in the reserves into the late 1960s.
Respect for Hickham a true Hero.
Thanks for no notice screw tube.
Hey, here's an idea: let's make a video about the F-3 Demon, but show the A-4 Skyhawk and F-4 phantom through half the video, that'd be a hoot! LMAO. Great video though, keep it up!
So irritating!
Just how much video do you think there is.
An A-4 fighter version(Like the G variant) would have performed better at the interceptor role than the Demon 😅
Why cut in a clip of Niagara Falls for the opening in San Diego?
"Demon drivers" whoa.
McDonnell Douglas advised the US Government not to use this engine. The production aircraft were towed from the factory to the St. Louis river front and loaded on barges to ship to Memphis. McDonnell Douglas built the airgrames but the customer (US Government) selects the power plants.
Echos of the Marine pilot who bailed out over Clairemont, where his F-18 hit a house killing two people.
Was found to be at fault for running out of fuel, and not diverting to NAS North Island where he would've been able to land.
Get-there-itis trying to get back to Miramar caused two deaths, a multi-million dollar aircraft, and more...
I think they used Hickman's story of the school in the 1970 movie Sole Survivor but the outcome was bad for the children in that movie. Very good video and I always wondered if that story was true, albeit the opposite outcome, for the movie.
Love the cameo of the USS Shangri-La. :)
The Propeller from Shangri-La is mounted in front of Medings sea food restaurant on Rt1 Delaware, south of Dover
"Below him was a school..."
At 2000 feet, there are a LOT of things below you.
You’d think with all the engine updates, they would have found a suitable engine to push the thing. Imagine: a fighter that needed the guns removed to save weight…..that must have been a real inspiration to its pilots.
Great stuff 🤠
The -G model Demon was going to be available with either a single seat or two seat variant also.
Why this video shows A4 in some scenes? What is the relation between A4 and F3H?
As a former Navy pilot (born the year this happened), I object to your use of the current inane, overused and misused term "insane" with regards to the pilots who flew these early aircraft. These men were anything but "insane". Actions such as those exhibited by E-1 Hickman were quite sane and powerfully selfless to save the school at his own peril. You can throw that word at those in procurement within the Pentagon, perhaps. Or just try to not use "trendy" idiotic, addlepated vocabulary to sell your channel. And your misuse of crash footage at about 3:50 is NOT of a Demon but a F-9F Panther. Get a clue, do some research, try harder.
Dear Sir, I am deeply offended for the political incorrect term that you use and it traumatized me, i.e. Former Navy Pilot, since once a Navy Pilot always a Navy Pilot. I hope that your comment will not arrive in DEI authorities. Have a good weekend.
@@christopherneufelt8971 Falcon-118
I have to do it.. I didn’t know that Leroy Grumman worked for McDonald Douglas😂
can you do a video about the Fokker G1 war plane from WW2?
Why do you keep showing footage of the Douglas A-4 skyhawk when you are referring to the Demon?
I wonder if the small air intake scoops with no boundary slats had anything to do with the unreliable engines?
Can you imagine what it’d be like for us airplane geeks to be able to go back in time to the late fourties’ to the early sixties and just duel over the different types of aircraft than flying or in testing Or in development, not to mention the old aircraft that still weren’t old back then
While the video does serve some purpose, I think some of you focus on its narrative way too much and get upset at some pixels instead of what narrator is actually saying. It’s best to listen because you can probably figure that military footage from the 50s and 60s will be surprisingly limited. You can’t deny that this person does good research and puts up some key pictures of the aircraft he’s talking about. It’s okay to have B-roll
I wonder whether Hickman's sacrifice inspired a similar scene in Pat Conroy's "The Great Santini."
8:35 Shows a picture of an F4 Phantom??
0:49
Even a jet with ZERO POWER doesn't drop from 2000 feet to crash in "a few seconds".
Except for showing the A4 Skyhawk in many shots calling it the demon, nice vid.
McDonnell Douglas went onto produce the MD-11.
Any questions?
The really sad thing is they never got to see what the Demon could really have been. Entered service in 1956....the F8U Crusader made its first flight the prior year and entered the fleet in 1957. And it was miles ahead of the Demon when it was brand new, let alone successive models. If the F3H had been given a proper engine from the start, it could have been a real world beater. The J57 that powered the F8U was a little more than half the length of the Demon's J71, but they were 0.5 inch different in diameter. And the J57 proved to be far more reliable--and more powerful. Imagine a Demon with that engine. The two aircraft were actually fairly comparable in weight as well....and the Crusader went supersonic easily in level flight on its very first flight.
...boy, that dumpster fire of an air frame lived way longer than it should have.
You think the F3D was bad check out the F7U Cutlass. My late father (a 26 year Navy veteran) said it was the worst ever.
Looks a bit like a Phantom, which makes sense.
Just chiming in to be that guy. At 6:17 I think thats an A-4.
Doesnt that mean, that the Aircraft itself could had been great if they had gotten access to a proper engine?
Adding Countermeasures, Better Sidwinders like Aim-9Es and more advanced Sparrows and better Radar, that thing could have served up to the Vietnam war.
Speed shouldnt had been an Issue since the A-7 and A-4 as well as the A-6 were still alot slower.
Baby Phantom. What if it had two engines?....... Why show the A-4 so often? A Yak-28 crew did the same thing as Hickman over Berlin about the same time - both crew went down with the plane into a lake rather than smash into urban areas.
It may be a dud...but it sure is a beautiful aircraft with its subtly menacing bulldog vibe.
I walk slowly, but I never walk backward.
wish you people would check your photos! the A-4 is complete different than the F-3.
Kind of funny that you continue to show an A4 instead of the F3!
This channel is not known for its accuracy, but it's entertaining.
Like most US fighters of the era, the Demon was underpowered and the engines unreliable. The US Axial Flow jet engines all failed and it was not until the J-57, the first reliable US Axial Flow jet engine appeared in 1955 that the designs became reliable.
Uh, NO. Try the Allison J-35 for the 1st. reliable axial flow turbojet engine-which was followed by the GE J-47.
@@stevenrobinson2381 Both engines were used in a long list of failed airceaft. The J-47 was better but thr RR Nene had the same output 3 years earlier and was considered more reliable
F4's kickass
"He knew just what to do" What? Seems like teleporting around the country is what he did.
F-4 Phantom 💪
"The fighter only insane pilots could fly"
So, did they scour mental institutions for pilots?
Excellent history; but why the extensive use on non-Demon aircraft photos??
Dramatic effect 2 make sure that everyone has an understanding of the point ☝️
At 0:05 into the video, you're talking about the skies over San Diego, but you're show one of the lions in front of The Art Institute of Chicago. Looks like the camera was 1730 miles out of focus.
Anybody recognize the pilot sitting to the right at 11:05? He's famous.
Ev Alvarez ?
The old guy in front of the Chicago Art Institute is looking west.....if he can see the Demon in San Diego he's got a hell of a pair of eye glasses.
No 21 year old is going to be an Ensign and a pilot flying high performance jets.
Please could you use you story telling skills to cover the story from 1968 when an RAF Hunter pilot illegally flew through Tower Bridge London to commemorate the RAF's 50th anniversary. Its a cool story more people should hear about.
0:06 Tom Hanks? 🤣🤣🤣 sorry could not help myself
Have Westinghouse had ever built reliable engine?
The J34 was the only truly successful turbojet built by Westinghouse.
They are STILL running around on drag strips over 60 years later,
often still operating as they were when sold as surplus long ago,
no overhaul.
Unfortunately,
those engines were rather underperforming when released but that was an era of rapid advancements and changes-
those were first generation fighter jets that were not yet supersonic.
The J-34’s are widely considered to be the bane of the X-3 Stiletto project,
which is in my opinion the most beautifully advanced aircraft ever created…
the program commenced in 1949.
It was fortunate for them that she was underpowered because they had problems with inertial coupling which was something that the engineers were not yet familiar with.
That aircraft was significantly influential on the successful yet dangerous F-104 Starfighter.
Back to the J-34’s,though-
they are reliable engines.
The only aircraft powered by the -36 version of the J-34 was the twin engine F3D-2 “Skyknight.”
It was a night fighter used exclusively by the Marine Corps in the Korean War, which destroyed more enemy planes than any other Navy or Marine Corps type in use-
there were only 265 Skyknights were produced.
That prototype first flew in 1948.
The better known F-86 Sabre was a USAF jet-
almost 10,000 units were produced.
It is the most easily recognized US fighter jet of that era.
Anyway,
the Skyknight was not very respected by the pilot community for several reasons.
Just remember-
they were primarily escorting the piston prop-driven B-29’s in Korea-
This was a very awkard time of transition with underperforming jets trying to work with well-developed, combat-proven, war-winning propeller bombers.
Here’s the thing
(engines aside)-
The Skyknight led to the Douglas F6D Missileer project which was a proposed carrier-based fleet defense fighter designed by Douglas Aircraft Company in response to a 1959 United States Navy requirement.
It was designed to be able to loiter for extended periods at a relatively long distance from the Navy's aircraft carriers, engaging hostile aircraft 100 miles (160 km) away with its powerful radar and long-range missiles.
Since the enemy would be fired on long before they reached visual range,
the aircraft had little dogfighting capability and was strictly subsonic.
When doubts were expressed about the Missileer's ability to defend itself after firing its missiles,
the value of the project was questioned, leading to its cancellation.
Some of the Missileer's systems,
(primarily the engines, radar, and missiles) continued development in spite of the cancellation,
eventually emerging on the ill-fated General Dynamics-Grumman F-111B and another jet you may have heard of…
The Grumman F-14 Tomcat.
Many designs throughout history were so far ahead of their time that the engines or construction techniques were simply not yet available.
You can really see that in the work of
Leonardo Da Vinci.
Yes! My Westinghouse fridge lasted for 10 years in the kitchen and another 3 in the garage (where it held only beer and smoked meats). That motor hummed away without interruption. Best fridge I ever had... sigh.
"Opened the canopy and frantically waved at the children below, urging them to take cover."
That description of the event is not realistic. It was a "made for non-flyers" narrative.
Some A-4 footage here.
can you see the F4 in the F3H?
I didn’t know McDonalds made fighter jets, guess they are really “that” serious about delivering their happy meals.
This is a joke.
im no engineer but at 22,000 lbs with 11,000 lbs of thrust....i coulda told em it was under powered lol
Is this when we learned not to put the engine intakes against the fuselage?
Did no one see the cool McDonnell pickup?
Wasn't aware the Chicago lions were in Cali
So did Ensign Hickman survive the crash????
According to the video he was awarded a posthumous award for bravery ... so guess not.
@@maltnz thanks
Did the Demon magically morph into the A-4? Lol
the background sound is toooooo high 😔
A lot of the video footage you show are A-4 Skyhawks, not F-3 Demons.
Why show an A4 in many shots in this video while talking about the F3 Demon??? It kinda ruins the video which was actually very good, before tue A4s were shown. People expect much more accuracy from documentary videos like this.
😊😊😊😊
😊❤😊❤😊❤😊
Call me a bit of a superstitious old fool, but maybe aircraft manufacturers and the military might refrain from using the word DEMON in designating their fighting equipment in the future.
😅😂 Oh my! In this one, we have the head of a company "personally redacting a letter to Washington" and the leader of a country worried about "coops" instead of coup d'etats! Oh its too funny, 😆!
Man I love the demon it’s a shame that it has the worst aim7’s
(ex war thunder player). They call it the Whale
That was the A3D Skywarrior
At 0.31 U say 2000' and the Altimiter shows 49,740
😮😮😮😮😮😮
😊
Wow
it looks like a baby F4
0:05 is Michigan Ave. in Chicago...pretty far from the skies of San Diego I'm thinking (?)
I'd be glad to check your B footage so your videos don't have A-4 Skyhawks pretending to be your Demons, or any such mistakes. I love your videos, but it kills me everytime the wrong aircraft is displayed. I had the same problem growing up when TV would cringe just the same.
video about the F3H Demon, but a lot of shots showing the A4 Skyhawk, and an F4 Phantom