First off, love your channel, please keep up the good work. I have a BS, MS, and Doctorate in Engineering, and an MBA (Darden - UVA). I had the same thoughts that you mentioned going into my MBA program, and although I agree with your sentiment, I would argue that the MBA degree is a special degree. Coming into the program, after a Doctorate in Engineering, I had no training in Finance, Economics, or Accounting. Bigger than that, the MBA gave me training in Management Communications, Strategic Thinking and Action, Negotiations, Leading Organizations (Governance), Operations Management, Pricing, Marketing, etc. I never received any of this training in my BS, MS, or Doctorate in Engineering. So the degree is very different and serves a different purpose. So, In a nutshell, would I hire an MBA to be a quant for my hedge fund or bank, etc? Likely no, unless then had a BS, MS, Ph.D. in a quantitative subject also. However, would I hire a Quant over an MBA to "Run" my hedge fund or bank, etc? Again, likely no, the MBA's from the program I went to are trained to have an "Enterprise Perspective" which is very different from having a "Quantitative Modeling Perspective". - Dr. Spence
Speaks the truth. Im heading to a MFE program this fall and it took me 3 years of training math just to get to the point of being baesline ready for the program. (Finance BBA Wisconsin). That said, LOVE the quant finance world and data science with financial applications.
@@Hi-uo2oc hmmm. I would say it could have been had I sought it out. Linear algebra, discrete and continuous statistics, ODE's, PDE's and discrete math a must for pre req.
MBA and quant are two separate career paths all together. While anybody can do an MBA, to be a quant, one needs to have the right skillset and aptitude. MBA teaches you leadership skills and is good for making bigger paychecks in general, in terms of knowledge there is nothing special one can learn from doing an MBA.
I mean it’s just mainly a management vs. expertise mindset. Sure, people with an MS can eventually carry an SVP title. Are there many? Not in my experience. Sure, people with an MBA can become modeling experts in CCAR, CECL, and DFAST. Are there many? Again, not really. So it really just boils down to what you want to do. Managing a group or division is challenging. Constructing a CCAR model is also challenging. They just offer different challenges. You can go through an MS and be an awful modeler, you can go through an MBA and be a garbage manager. We’ve probably all seen both of those. People too often let their degree define them - and that’s a really sad reality.
I am not at all a quant so for someone like me (who is gunning to get into IB) is well fit for MBA :D. Just not a math nerd here... :\. But I am self aware to know this and this video makes complete sense to me. I just need to accept that I am more of a bro than not, I guess.
2 of my ex classmates managed to break into MBB consulting firms (McKinsey , BCG , Bain) only after getting MBA from world renowned MBA programs (think the top business school in mid west windy city 😬 etc ). They are good/smart students but I observed they got their break through after getting their MBA. As an outsider just observing, it seems like for some posh jobs , your chance of getting it increases exponentially if you have a MBA from a renowned business school . For MBB case , if they charge high fees for giving consultation to firms , probably they need world class MBA consultants to justify the high fees charged . I heard McKinsey charges USD$250k/week (source is CNBC video) PS: I might be wrong and this is just my humble opinion .
The finance and consulting industries as a whole prefers top named schools. You'll always find people from smaller named schools as well however it is a lot easier when the big companies come looking for you instead of you looking for them. Consulting in general charges a high premium but it has to do with the costs and inconsistent work the firm faces. The people at them are no smarter than those in other firms. There are a variety of reasons consultants are hired which can range from bringing in a special skill that will only be used once to getting confidence in having a third party agree with them on how things are being done. The billing ranges a lot but that has to do with the number of employees and the type of work. I've seen fees much higher than $250k per week (think 3x or more) but there are many resources on these projects.
Hey Dimitri. I watch all your videos and I'm a big fan. I was hoping if you could give a review about the Masters in Quantitative Finance and Risk Management programme at Bocconi and the Masters in Quantitative Finance programme at Erasmus. Would be really helpful.
It is challenging to judge programs without knowing the actual materials from the courses. The course titles these days aren't very specific. In general you'll want to find programs that are more math driven and have good job placement. A lot of programs don't provide this information which is why it's hard to compare or rank programs.
@@DimitriBianco Yes I understand that must be difficult. Sharing the links of their course structures below: 1. Bocconi: www.unibocconi.eu/wps/wcm/connect/Bocconi/SitoPubblico_EN/Navigation+Tree/Home/Programs/Specialized+Masters/MAFINRISK+-+Master+of+Quantitative+Finance+and+Risk+Management/Program+Structure/ 2. Erasmus: www.eur.nl/en/master/quantitative-finance/study-programme
Folks with an MBA are looking for executive level position where they know and understand how the business operates and make sure with their skills they can keep the business running profitably. I disagree with most folks who say it is not a Masters degree. That is certainly a quant mindset and you're entitled to your opinion. However, the soft and hard skills you gain from the program to understand how all the parts of a business work together cannot be gained in an undergrad program and certainly not in a quant program. Not all MBAs are created equal either. Some just go through the usual subjects while some programs have instructors who have worked in the field and bring real world projects to class which you have to work on. I dont give much weight to 1 year programs because they do not provide comprehensive education to a future executive or manager. Besides, noone expects you to be the tinker bell of the group at the executive level position, they have enough of those to do that. At the decision making level, they are looking for managerial knowledge and a leader. That's where MBA comes into play.
Thanks for watching my videos! I should clarify a bit on "you can't teach management." It's not that you can't teach management, it's that most of management doesn't want to learn because people in general don't like change or don't have the time to figure out how and why to make changes. I've actually had past managers and senior colleagues contact me asking how to implement new methods to make companies better however I have also spent years at a variety of companies trying to convince management to fix broken systems. The statement should be "it's difficult to teach management." Usually new colleagues are eager to learn and so they are easier to teach.
Totally I agree with you, to be honest I get what do you mean & agree, even when I hold MBA I believe it's just give you the key & tools but how to implement it in critical events it's the matter, if you know the ( evidence based practices ) it's originally form medical field but it's quite fit with business, the manager thinks he know how to handle the situation but they almost always fail since they rely in their experience on changeable world , thanks
Hey Dimitri, congrats for the awesome content you produce, i would like to know from you as a quant, If is possible to apply such knowledge to low budget investments, i know data can be expensive, what i mean, could a quant trade for himself?
I doubt you need an mba to get into management. I work as a quant in a large european bank and none of the management (head of rates derivatives trading, head of market risk, etc. ) has a MBA, but mostly phd in math or mathematical finance. No one needs an MBA to be in management.
Hey buddy Your videos are absolutely great. I gave the GRE just recently and have planned to pursue quant finance but I’m just a little vary of the program being too technical or should I say coding oriented. Can u help?
I'd research the different programs as some are more coding focused while others are more mathematical focused. Some are also finance focused but I would avoid those. One example of a code heavy program is Baruch. They have C++ prerequisites which indicates they will require a lot more true computer science. In general quantitative finance will have a lot of coding however statistics languages (SAS, R, and Python) are easier to learn than lower level languages like C++. I would encourage you to at minimum to download either R or Python and try loading data from CSV into it and plotting them. The videos below should get you started. Installing R and R Studio: ruclips.net/video/PDKT8XpH3-k/видео.html Importing CSV into R: ruclips.net/video/Bp6y38UkTkU/видео.html
First thing why would you avoid the ones that are more of finance. Well there are a couple of programs, one in UT Austin and another in UIUC both being MS Finance, that I have shortlisted to get into, as it gives you a pathway into IB. I have completed B Tech in CSE that I couldn’t really gelled with. The MS Finance programs are both STEM programs, so it’s an advantage. What’s your opinion on all of this? Anyway you are great, in that that you care to reply to people’s concerns regarding careers in finance and all. Thanks big time.
If you want to work in IB then you don't want to do quantitative finance. If you want to work in IB I would highly recommend an MBA from a top program. I've had some exposure to a top program when I took classes at the Ross Business School. Companies like Goldman Sachs, Lazards, Rothschild, Baird, and a ton of other companies came specifically looking for Ross grads. I'd never seen such a think as my undergrad was a general state school. A Masters in Finance can also lead you to IB and other traditional finance jobs on wall street. The coding you would do in tradtional finance will be VBA and SQL based which you should easily be able to pick up with no CS experience.
Hey Dimitri I'm going to be staring my masters in quantitative finance this fall and was wondering whether I would get my pick of being able to go into the quantitative or the business side of finance upon graduation. While a business finance major would likely not make it in quants does it likewise imply that a quant would not make it in business. I am finishing my bachelors in computer eng this year and don't want to be pigeonholed into a niche field. Any advice would be much appreciated!
ashwin sivaraman it will depend on the classes you take and your programs focus. However in isn't easy switching between the two. Companies prefer to hire finance and mba students to do finance because they are tailored for it.
Dimitri Bianco thanks for the super fast reply!!! My program is offered by Texas A&M and consists of a first year of mathematics followed by a second year of finance courses. This being a brand new program for which I will be in the first cohort I'm rather hesitant to join. But thank you and keep up the great work buddy
How do you explain the high GMAT score averages? I would expect someone with a 720 GMAT score for example to have a good amount of Math skills and Logic into his brains.
most of the people going into top MBA programs are undergrad Engineers, which I argue every engineer is basically a math minor. But I guess this dude thinks just cause someone can't understand his python code then those people aren't quantitative enough
Hi Dimitri, Could you please how Masters in Data science can help you get into financial industry and how it flairs against MFE as in a MS In Data Science along with a CFA.
I've actually got a video on popular careers for quant finance. It's usually a highly quantitative degree so no other degree would be required. If you did get another degree it would be a PhD in stats or computer science. ruclips.net/video/ptd4XicBUnY/видео.html
First off, love your channel, please keep up the good work.
I have a BS, MS, and Doctorate in Engineering, and an MBA (Darden - UVA). I had the same thoughts that you mentioned going into my MBA program, and although I agree with your sentiment, I would argue that the MBA degree is a special degree. Coming into the program, after a Doctorate in Engineering, I had no training in Finance, Economics, or Accounting. Bigger than that, the MBA gave me training in Management Communications, Strategic Thinking and Action, Negotiations, Leading Organizations (Governance), Operations Management, Pricing, Marketing, etc. I never received any of this training in my BS, MS, or Doctorate in Engineering. So the degree is very different and serves a different purpose.
So, In a nutshell, would I hire an MBA to be a quant for my hedge fund or bank, etc? Likely no, unless then had a BS, MS, Ph.D. in a quantitative subject also. However, would I hire a Quant over an MBA to "Run" my hedge fund or bank, etc? Again, likely no, the MBA's from the program I went to are trained to have an "Enterprise Perspective" which is very different from having a "Quantitative Modeling Perspective".
- Dr. Spence
subscribed because of the HONESTY. Don't cover up your opinions with fluff. I love the gritty honesty. Keep it coming. Subbed.
It's the honesty that's needed to make correct decisions
MBA sounds like a 2 years vocation where you yo people everyday.A great break for people exhausted from IB.
Speaks the truth. Im heading to a MFE program this fall and it took me 3 years of training math just to get to the point of being baesline ready for the program. (Finance BBA Wisconsin). That said, LOVE the quant finance world and data science with financial applications.
Hi there Brian,
Was the finance bba program good enough for your math training or did u use external sources?
@@Hi-uo2oc hmmm. I would say it could have been had I sought it out. Linear algebra, discrete and continuous statistics, ODE's, PDE's and discrete math a must for pre req.
this guy is based as fuck
MBA and quant are two separate career paths all together. While anybody can do an MBA, to be a quant, one needs to have the right skillset and aptitude. MBA teaches you leadership skills and is good for making bigger paychecks in general, in terms of knowledge there is nothing special one can learn from doing an MBA.
I mean it’s just mainly a management vs. expertise mindset. Sure, people with an MS can eventually carry an SVP title. Are there many? Not in my experience. Sure, people with an MBA can become modeling experts in CCAR, CECL, and DFAST. Are there many? Again, not really.
So it really just boils down to what you want to do. Managing a group or division is challenging. Constructing a CCAR model is also challenging. They just offer different challenges. You can go through an MS and be an awful modeler, you can go through an MBA and be a garbage manager. We’ve probably all seen both of those.
People too often let their degree define them - and that’s a really sad reality.
Thank you for this vid. you provide the hard truth
I studying Quantitative Finance at NISM in India..In my batch, Unfortunately 50% people are from Business background...they are just Impossible.
I am not at all a quant so for someone like me (who is gunning to get into IB) is well fit for MBA :D. Just not a math nerd here... :\. But I am self aware to know this and this video makes complete sense to me. I just need to accept that I am more of a bro than not, I guess.
2 of my ex classmates managed to break into MBB consulting firms (McKinsey , BCG , Bain) only after getting MBA from world renowned MBA programs (think the top business school in mid west windy city 😬 etc ). They are good/smart students but I observed they got their break through after getting their MBA.
As an outsider just observing, it seems like for some posh jobs , your chance of getting it increases exponentially if you have a MBA from a renowned business school .
For MBB case , if they charge high fees for giving consultation to firms , probably they need world class MBA consultants to justify the high fees charged . I heard McKinsey charges USD$250k/week (source is CNBC video)
PS: I might be wrong and this is just my humble opinion .
The finance and consulting industries as a whole prefers top named schools. You'll always find people from smaller named schools as well however it is a lot easier when the big companies come looking for you instead of you looking for them.
Consulting in general charges a high premium but it has to do with the costs and inconsistent work the firm faces. The people at them are no smarter than those in other firms. There are a variety of reasons consultants are hired which can range from bringing in a special skill that will only be used once to getting confidence in having a third party agree with them on how things are being done. The billing ranges a lot but that has to do with the number of employees and the type of work. I've seen fees much higher than $250k per week (think 3x or more) but there are many resources on these projects.
Hey Dimitri. I watch all your videos and I'm a big fan. I was hoping if you could give a review about the Masters in Quantitative Finance and Risk Management programme at Bocconi and the Masters in Quantitative Finance programme at Erasmus. Would be really helpful.
It is challenging to judge programs without knowing the actual materials from the courses. The course titles these days aren't very specific. In general you'll want to find programs that are more math driven and have good job placement. A lot of programs don't provide this information which is why it's hard to compare or rank programs.
@@DimitriBianco Yes I understand that must be difficult. Sharing the links of their course structures below:
1. Bocconi: www.unibocconi.eu/wps/wcm/connect/Bocconi/SitoPubblico_EN/Navigation+Tree/Home/Programs/Specialized+Masters/MAFINRISK+-+Master+of+Quantitative+Finance+and+Risk+Management/Program+Structure/
2. Erasmus:
www.eur.nl/en/master/quantitative-finance/study-programme
@@parthmaheshwari6009 this post was made 9 months ago, did you enrolled in one of those programs? What did you find out?
MBA is like a Chad degree... intellect are those in engineering, math, physics, medicine, dentistry etc
Man's Destroying MBAs LOL
Folks with an MBA are looking for executive level position where they know and understand how the business operates and make sure with their skills they can keep the business running profitably. I disagree with most folks who say it is not a Masters degree. That is certainly a quant mindset and you're entitled to your opinion. However, the soft and hard skills you gain from the program to understand how all the parts of a business work together cannot be gained in an undergrad program and certainly not in a quant program. Not all MBAs are created equal either. Some just go through the usual subjects while some programs have instructors who have worked in the field and bring real world projects to class which you have to work on. I dont give much weight to 1 year programs because they do not provide comprehensive education to a future executive or manager. Besides, noone expects you to be the tinker bell of the group at the executive level position, they have enough of those to do that. At the decision making level, they are looking for managerial knowledge and a leader. That's where MBA comes into play.
Love this video!
Vincent Chung thanks!
Thank you for the view 💕
Hey mate, I really like your channel and your great videos as well as your opinion , but I really disagree with “ you can’t teach management “
Thanks for watching my videos! I should clarify a bit on "you can't teach management." It's not that you can't teach management, it's that most of management doesn't want to learn because people in general don't like change or don't have the time to figure out how and why to make changes. I've actually had past managers and senior colleagues contact me asking how to implement new methods to make companies better however I have also spent years at a variety of companies trying to convince management to fix broken systems. The statement should be "it's difficult to teach management." Usually new colleagues are eager to learn and so they are easier to teach.
Totally I agree with you, to be honest I get what do you mean & agree, even when I hold MBA I believe it's just give you the key & tools but how to implement it in critical events it's the matter, if you know the ( evidence based practices ) it's originally form medical field but it's quite fit with business, the manager thinks he know how to handle the situation but they almost always fail since they rely in their experience on changeable world , thanks
Hey Dimitri, congrats for the awesome content you produce, i would like to know from you as a quant, If is possible to apply such knowledge to low budget investments, i know data can be expensive, what i mean, could a quant trade for himself?
I think it would be nearly impossible. You really need a team of experts in different areas as well as a lot of capital.
I doubt you need an mba to get into management. I work as a quant in a large european bank and none of the management (head of rates derivatives trading, head of market risk, etc. ) has a MBA, but mostly phd in math or mathematical finance. No one needs an MBA to be in management.
What did you study to become a quant? Starting salary?
What about a PhD in Finance?
Hey buddy
Your videos are absolutely great.
I gave the GRE just recently and have planned to pursue quant finance but I’m just a little vary of the program being too technical or should I say coding oriented. Can u help?
I'd research the different programs as some are more coding focused while others are more mathematical focused. Some are also finance focused but I would avoid those. One example of a code heavy program is Baruch. They have C++ prerequisites which indicates they will require a lot more true computer science. In general quantitative finance will have a lot of coding however statistics languages (SAS, R, and Python) are easier to learn than lower level languages like C++. I would encourage you to at minimum to download either R or Python and try loading data from CSV into it and plotting them. The videos below should get you started.
Installing R and R Studio: ruclips.net/video/PDKT8XpH3-k/видео.html
Importing CSV into R: ruclips.net/video/Bp6y38UkTkU/видео.html
First thing why would you avoid the ones that are more of finance.
Well there are a couple of programs, one in UT Austin and another in UIUC both being MS Finance, that I have shortlisted to get into, as it gives you a pathway into IB. I have completed B Tech in CSE that I couldn’t really gelled with. The MS Finance programs are both STEM programs, so it’s an advantage. What’s your opinion on all of this?
Anyway you are great, in that that you care to reply to people’s concerns regarding careers in finance and all.
Thanks big time.
If you want to work in IB then you don't want to do quantitative finance. If you want to work in IB I would highly recommend an MBA from a top program. I've had some exposure to a top program when I took classes at the Ross Business School. Companies like Goldman Sachs, Lazards, Rothschild, Baird, and a ton of other companies came specifically looking for Ross grads. I'd never seen such a think as my undergrad was a general state school. A Masters in Finance can also lead you to IB and other traditional finance jobs on wall street. The coding you would do in tradtional finance will be VBA and SQL based which you should easily be able to pick up with no CS experience.
Do one on Economics.
8:00 is the main idea
Hey Dimitri I'm going to be staring my masters in quantitative finance this fall and was wondering whether I would get my pick of being able to go into the quantitative or the business side of finance upon graduation. While a business finance major would likely not make it in quants does it likewise imply that a quant would not make it in business. I am finishing my bachelors in computer eng this year and don't want to be pigeonholed into a niche field. Any advice would be much appreciated!
ashwin sivaraman it will depend on the classes you take and your programs focus. However in isn't easy switching between the two. Companies prefer to hire finance and mba students to do finance because they are tailored for it.
Dimitri Bianco thanks for the super fast reply!!! My program is offered by Texas A&M and consists of a first year of mathematics followed by a second year of finance courses. This being a brand new program for which I will be in the first cohort I'm rather hesitant to join. But thank you and keep up the great work buddy
How do you explain the high GMAT score averages? I would expect someone with a 720 GMAT score for example to have a good amount of Math skills and Logic into his brains.
most of the people going into top MBA programs are undergrad Engineers, which I argue every engineer is basically a math minor. But I guess this dude thinks just cause someone can't understand his python code then those people aren't quantitative enough
I should have seen this video before.
I quant. I mean I can't either
Hi Dimitri,
Could you please how Masters in Data science can help you get into financial industry and how it flairs against MFE as in a MS In Data Science along with a CFA.
+Rohit Kumar I'll be adding some videos on data science masters soon.
hey what careers can one get in financial engineering?
and what other degree should i combine it with?
I've actually got a video on popular careers for quant finance. It's usually a highly quantitative degree so no other degree would be required. If you did get another degree it would be a PhD in stats or computer science.
ruclips.net/video/ptd4XicBUnY/видео.html
hahaha. I should have subscribed you earlier!
Gonna post it to FB, blocking all MBA friends
Lol. Thanks for sharing it! Every bit of promoting helps the channel.
Change the name of video to "A quant understands what Marx meant!"
Unfortunately the only skill that really counts is how good you are at exploitat--- excuse me, "management".
2:10 Fact 😂
Isn't it just the worst!
I thought you weren’t a quant.
It would be more convincing if you hold an MBA degree, otherwise, it sounds salty.
Watch my interview with a buddy of mine who has an MBA, it might surprise you.
ruclips.net/video/-2F1TyT89_s/видео.html