A nice super easy trick to find out the proper length collector extension on "YOUR Engine" meaning anyone's engine in there car or truck by installing a 24" length collector extension on each header , then paint the collector with a engine paint 800degF. not exhaust header paint 2200degF. let it dry, it does not have to be a perfect paint job at all then once it dries. take it for 1 hard run "Think Dyno Pull" then look for the worse burnt paint spot on extensions and cut pipe there. That should be "YOUR ENGINES" optimum collector length for what your engine wants
The removing the muffler test may apply at the drag strip however to fix that behavior, one could add pipe. Also, on street cars, it probably wouldn't apply at all. One test I would love to see is a muffler shoot out. Glass packs, stock exhaust, anything popular.
An old timers exhaust trick I’ve heard is to spray paint the pipes and run the motor nice and hot, and let some of the paint burn off. The point on the pipes where the paint stops burning is where to cut for best results
it was tested on engine masters show and it proved that dosent work. im with you, I did it that way till i seen the show and it changed everything for me after that
Buell bikes have a butterfly in the stock muffler that change the pipe length internally and it makes a big difference between 2-3000. We get a bunch come in for a tune where people disable them because the internet said it's a restriction.. Sadly most people mod without asking what actually works.
@ That's typically more to pass noise laws in some countries, and also allow it to still have a half decent exhaust note under load. Though it may have a slight effect depending on the muffler design. The Buell mufflers I was mentioning physically change the length of the pipe internally for performance reasons, not just sound :)
@ Backpressure being benificial is kinda a myth, only really applicable on 2 strokes. The myth stuck around partly because large diameter pipes loose exhaust velocity at lower air mass levels (The real cause of the 'backpressure' performance losses) Took a while to figure out that's what was actually the culprit and backpressure is never good. Hook a vacuum up if you could would be ideal lol. The difference here are reflective waves due to a length change, and thus the timing they arrive back at the valve.
@ Almost positive that's a straight through perforated style muffler. Inlet and outlet are on the same axis, usually baffled mufflers have an inlet/outlet offset.
That's what cut outs are for. I did this in the 70's come out of the hole and open the cut outs at 3800rpm. Try it you'll like it. I was supprised to see no gain at all on the top though. We didn't have access to an engine dyno back then so it was kinda hit and miss and hard to get those fine adjustments that normally can show up anyway in road conditions and human error. This was nice to see proven on a dyno.
Another great test, thanks Richard. I know that many of these tests are older ones but they are just as important today as ever and I for one appreciate you putting them up here. They answer so many questions that we cannot resolve because we don't have the resources and time to do. The combinations you are using are very good and do apply to the vast majority of us and the results for other combinations can usually be figured out from here.
Good info as always! Around 1990 I raced (street/strip) a '73 340 Duster with a purple shaft mild hydraulic cam with the '73 smaller heads. The gear was a 3.55 posi and 3,200 stahl. I advanced the cam 4 degrees and picked up a full tenth. As for exhaust, I always ran a "too long" 2 foot 3 1/2" collector off the street headers. The car always had good torque for a small motor plus made it sound like a big block. Can't remember how many times someone would say "you running a 440?" The car ran 12.90 in the quarter as described here plus I could drive it to the strip easily. Always a blast picking up an impromptu race to or from the strip which was always a surprise to the other guy.
Another great video. I always assumed they built in a few degrees of advance so when people inevitably buy a bigger cam than they need it won’t be too soggy down low
Years ago I knew a guy with a 440 torqueflite Challenger. Perennial bracket race champ. Then one year he tried a set of Hooker adjustable headers. It took 15 passes and subsequent primary/ collector length changes just to get it to ET as good as before the change.
That was so interesting about cam timing. My son who is 18 was just asking me about it yesturday while he is helping rebuild a 1961 SBC. . I'm going to show him this. What about using exhaust cutouts opening up after 4000 RPM that could work.... Keep testing.
Like a slippy pipe in a 2 stroke race kart, a cable operated length adjustment gave it another 1000 rpm up top on a little 100cc Yamaha. Couple inches of travel if I remember correctly
Pro stock engines are running really short headers with a collector that looks like a funnel. The difference is a 10,000 rpm engine instead of 6,000. What I found with header length is it's not necessarily HP level to size a header, but mostly rpm range.
Hmm... U go to a hockey game and end up watching a wrestling match...interesting.. 🤣🤣🤣 came here for the cam knowledge and recieved exhaust flow info..
There's a guy that built his own VVT system for his turbo dodge, it replaced the tensioner and idler pullies and iirc could adjust a total of 14 ish degrees. Its as basic as such things get, you would basically see your curves at either point you wanted to run tue cam and set the switchover for the crossover point, boom you got your self nice top end with easy starting and a better idle. Probably a bit of olw end also that you might otherwise be missing if you had your cam set for best power. Something I would like to see on a V8, and i might try on my little Mazda lol.
I really want to see some side by side comparisons of VVT LS cams vs. cams with the same specs that are fixed. Texas speed offers several VVT grinds. The web is full of mixed opinions on VVT. Would love to see some actual testing!
As a young man in the 80s, everyone who installed a cam complained about killing low end torque. We were all shoving cams in low compression engines and it really sucked it you picked a cam from the mild of the page. I always wondered if we could have made up some torque by advancing the the cam.
I don't understand how you only have 84,000 subscribers when you have by far the most informative awesome information I've ever seen on RUclips and then you have that giraffe in Florida running around doing all kinds of stupid s*** and he has millions of subscribers. But it's okay that's why the ugly car with $2,000 will whoop up on the $40,000 Corvette. because we have your information and know what works.
I’m guessing an X Or H pipe would negate the muffler effect since that becomes the starting point for the negative pressure wave. Thumbs up for yet another great splainer vid!
You don't need a sliding exhaust pipe. Just a exhaust dump. You hook it up, so that it's closed till X RPM then the dump opens up and makes the run shorter. Problem solved. With the computer that most cars run, you build into the system a preset number to trip the electric solenoid to open the exhaust dump. Plus the transition would be smooth and seamless. You could do this on your dyno.
hey Richard try that old motorcycle tuner's trick where you put on a length of pipe, spraypaint a line on it, run the engine for 10 mins and then cut the pipe off where the paint stops burning off.. that trick has never failed to work for me on naturally aspirated engines
Now You gotta set up an engine with variable intake and exhaust lengths that adjust with rpm use cut outs and varied length pipes on the exhaust and solenoid actuators on the intake stacks
Backing off - the cam timing is the way to go IMO The more compression you have the more you can rewind the cam without hurting the low end that much. My combo, lq4 with LS3 flat tops, stock 706 heads and a 220/224 115 -4 119 ICL custom comp cam
Well matching everything, carb, headers, cam, heads, gas, compression. My 383 loved a 750 carb, 1.75 primary tubes, high rise dowel plain with retarded timming. We did the 600,650, 1.625 tubes, single ,dowel intakes, advanced, retarded timming. And found the sweet all around spot, 650 hp, 670 torque. Know custom cnc,heads,intake, custom carb, we do not know what to expect. Great vid seeing what was what is always great instead of what if,cause what if can get expensive.
Richard, I am extremely interested in your opinion on an issue I'm presently faced with. I'm assembling a 383 sbc for my daily driven 4x4 truck. 5.7" rods, 24cc dish D-cup pistons, AFR 190 Vortec heads. Truck will retain the factory Vortec intake with upgraded 36lb injectors, and a ported throttle body(76mm). I'm having a custom ground hydraulic roller made for this engine. I've pretty much settled on these lobes... 266°/266° 210°/214° .505"/.495" I'm still torn between 110 or 112 lsa because IVC point is my main concern. Simulations show that my best torque curve is produced with a 56-58° IVC event. The catch is that I want this truck to run happily on 87 octane fuel. My static compression will be right at 9.0:1. When I advance the intake events to attain the best low to midrange torque and throttle response, I end up with a dynamic compression ratio in the 7.6-7.8 range. I'm concerned that I will have to pull so much timing to avoid detonation that it won't be worth the effort to run the advanced cam timing. Ultimately, my question is which has greater effect on torque production and throttle response in the 2000-3500rpm range......valve event timing or ignition advance?
What about those switches that switch from Muffler to open you could maybe leave the muffler connected for the first 3000 RPM and then open it up at 4000 and see what the difference would be
Richard, I have a older 350 and am thinking of going with the Edelbrock package of heads manifold and such, I was looking at the 400 plus hp version, have you had good luck with installing these heads out of the box Thanks
Awesome video, I have three questions 1st are those 600s vacuum secondaries or manual 2nd what size jetting did you end up with and 3rd what was the overall timing...love the videos, learning gobs and gobs keep it up
I'm building this exact engine except it's a stroker 383 with rpm air gap and 286hr magnum cam. I'm questioning my cam choice though. Should I get an xr282hr or xr288hr instead? Don't care about vacuum and have 4.11 gears. Don't want to rev past 6,200. Love the videos. You have the most specific details I have found on RUclips.
I've always degreed a cam while installing it. Always been told it's the best optimized, and to ensure valve to piston clearance. Not sure how far off the timing would have to be before you run into issues. Interesting seeing the results though. Definitely not what I was expecting.
Typically, yes. Degreeing is the right way to do it. Even if you don't know what the numbers mean, never assume cam gears and crank gears and the cam for that matter, were made correctly. Be surprised what I have seen. Also, the results in this video are not typical, and will vary for each application. If the cam was way off, you would see different results. Would hate for people to take that graph reading out of context, and think the minimal power differences are the same for every engine. Results vary depending on how off the combination is. Same goes for any part on the engine..
I would like to see a comparison between putting zoomie headers vs all other kinds. Because it seems like there would be a loss in power going zoomies but thats what they use on nitro funny cars. thanks for all the good content Richard!
I was surprised that removing the muffler effected the low rpm torque that much. Have you ever tested an exhaust system with headers, a crossover on the header pipes (no mufflers) and a side exit similar to what NASCAR uses?
Pretty sure the Comp 282 has 4 degrees ground in. So when you install it "dot to dot" with a 110 LSA, have you determined that the ICL was 106? Curious. THAT is going to reflect in the results.
I would like to see this test repeated DOHC engine. Would be interesting to see the effects of overlap verse having Near having no overlap. Would also like to see the test repeated again under boost. Would be interesting to see how it affects the boost Curves.
It would do the same thing. It actually comes factory on most DOHC engines nowadays to make more torque down low and more hp up top. Boost is just more air into the engine as long as the back-pressure isn’t too high.
@@mr.know_it_all its not that simple. Smaller frame turbos can't tolerate to much overlap where as a larger frame turbo can and its actually better for it. I'd really like to see how it affects the ramp on of boost. How early/late it peaks and holds.
Use the standard equation to calculate header length. 45" primaries really pick up low end. Zooomies are the right length for a high rpm drag engine. Adjustable collectors are available. AS Vizard says you will not lose hp with the right muffler. Try no header at all . Straight from the head. Amazing what that does.
i'm not only running mufflers and a full exhaust but it would be interesting to see what difference a larger wastegate would make. i'm running dual 60mm gates.
A wastegate controls boost. Still takes X amount of pressure in the exhaust to make target boost. A bigger wastegate would just take less movement to make target boost.
What is the maximum power you can put through the back wheels from a standing start before you get wheel spin? What RPM do you change up a gear? I guess I'm talking about American cars here, I'm from the UK, so it's not as dumb a question as it seems, yes I know it depends on tiers so I expect a wide range answer.
@@knowbull5hit590 yes, loaded like a thing. My point/question is, do you realy need so much power below a certain revs? Is the trade of worth the extra power in the band you would be accelerating through. Maybe, sometimes...
Couldn’t you use a electronic exhaust cutout before the muffler and then have a holley ecu open the cut out at the crossover rpm point in the curve where the shorter exhaust starts to make more power
@@richardholdener1727 Thanks for your reply. I spent too much time looking for it after I asked you if you've used it, to no avail. Perhaps they took it off of the market. From what I recall it had a chain which was intentional "loose" and it used one or two spring loaded tensioners which expanded as the rpm increased, effectively making the chain "longer" and retarded the cam timing. I wish I could find it.
@@richardholdener1727 Actually, I found it. 😎 It's called Cam Correct. There are a few options available but I'm not able to identify the differences. www.competitionproducts.com/mobile/Cam-Correct/products/122/
Very interesting but if you change the cam timing too much isn't it possible to destroy the top end what if you went to injection changed fuel mapping & lean or rich out fuel ???
Advancing the timing is prop what Im going to do after checking Piston to valve clearances. What happens to compression ratio when you advance the camshaft 4 degrees?
Any interest in doing a terminator x test? How close is the base map and maybe some pointers on getting a boosted motor in the ballpark using the initial start up
@@richardholdener1727 What was your participation? I dropped netflix a while ago. Also, did someone do a nose swap on the Mustang or did they just really get the year wrong (turned a 6 into a 9)?
Richard is this curve pretty much the same regardless of LSA or is the curve more tilted depending the LSA ?I see that with this cam not much was lost at lower rpm, the noticiable gains and loses are at the last upper rpm of the curve.
If you were putting this engine in, say, a C10, would you keep it at 3” all the way? I’ve seen a test (Engine Masters, l think) that said 3” exhaust was worth 20hp over 2-1/2” at 600hp. Would a tri-Y header be less sensitive? Please keep sending us answers!
This channel is pure engine building gold...
A nice super easy trick to find out the proper length collector extension on "YOUR Engine" meaning anyone's engine in there car or truck by installing a 24" length collector extension on each header , then paint the collector with a engine paint 800degF. not exhaust header paint 2200degF. let it dry, it does not have to be a perfect paint job at all then once it dries.
take it for 1 hard run "Think Dyno Pull" then look for the worse burnt paint spot on extensions and cut pipe there.
That should be "YOUR ENGINES" optimum collector length for what your engine wants
The removing the muffler test may apply at the drag strip however to fix that behavior, one could add pipe. Also, on street cars, it probably wouldn't apply at all. One test I would love to see is a muffler shoot out. Glass packs, stock exhaust, anything popular.
This is the best engines channel ever -- pay-per-view or free RUclips. Such amazing content. I hope your business model holds up.
An old timers exhaust trick I’ve heard is to spray paint the pipes and run the motor nice and hot, and let some of the paint burn off. The point on the pipes where the paint stops burning is where to cut for best results
it was tested on engine masters show and it proved that dosent work. im with you, I did it that way till i seen the show and it changed everything for me after that
You're a BEAST !! Richard !! Thank you for educating me !!
Buell bikes have a butterfly in the stock muffler that change the pipe length internally and it makes a big difference between 2-3000.
We get a bunch come in for a tune where people disable them because the internet said it's a restriction..
Sadly most people mod without asking what actually works.
@
That's typically more to pass noise laws in some countries, and also allow it to still have a half decent exhaust note under load.
Though it may have a slight effect depending on the muffler design.
The Buell mufflers I was mentioning physically change the length of the pipe internally for performance reasons, not just sound :)
@
Backpressure being benificial is kinda a myth, only really applicable on 2 strokes.
The myth stuck around partly because large diameter pipes loose exhaust velocity at lower air mass levels (The real cause of the 'backpressure' performance losses)
Took a while to figure out that's what was actually the culprit and backpressure is never good.
Hook a vacuum up if you could would be ideal lol.
The difference here are reflective waves due to a length change, and thus the timing they arrive back at the valve.
@
Almost positive that's a straight through perforated style muffler.
Inlet and outlet are on the same axis, usually baffled mufflers have an inlet/outlet offset.
That's what cut outs are for. I did this in the 70's come out of the hole and open the cut outs at 3800rpm. Try it you'll like it. I was supprised to see no gain at all on the top though. We didn't have access to an engine dyno back then so it was kinda hit and miss and hard to get those fine adjustments that normally can show up anyway in road conditions and human error. This was nice to see proven on a dyno.
Another great test, thanks Richard. I know that many of these tests are older ones but they are just as important today as ever and I for one appreciate you putting them up here. They answer so many questions that we cannot resolve because we don't have the resources and time to do. The combinations you are using are very good and do apply to the vast majority of us and the results for other combinations can usually be figured out from here.
Good info as always! Around 1990 I raced (street/strip) a '73 340 Duster with a purple shaft mild hydraulic cam with the '73 smaller heads. The gear was a 3.55 posi and 3,200 stahl. I advanced the cam 4 degrees and picked up a full tenth. As for exhaust, I always ran a "too long" 2 foot 3 1/2" collector off the street headers. The car always had good torque for a small motor plus made it sound like a big block. Can't remember how many times someone would say "you running a 440?" The car ran 12.90 in the quarter as described here plus I could drive it to the strip easily. Always a blast picking up an impromptu race to or from the strip which was always a surprise to the other guy.
Another guys test could be something with duel overhead cams and adjust them independently. Keep up the good work.
Ford coyote motor!
With bikes, I've seen that the more radical the cam the greater the difference with small changes in its timing
Always wondered whether the chain wear on my engine had any effect on the power curve, now i'll know.
Great info, thanks.
Great information. You are correct about the muffler being a collector extension. Been there and figured it out.
Great to actually do the real testing on the Dyno. Great job
Becoming my favorite channel!!!
tell a friend
Another great video. I always assumed they built in a few degrees of advance so when people inevitably buy a bigger cam than they need it won’t be too soggy down low
A good muffler will act as a collector extension like you stated, and help even exhaust pulse and help low speed overlap scavenging.
Have you ever tested reverse cone megaphones from someone like burns stainless
Years ago I knew a guy with a 440 torqueflite Challenger. Perennial bracket race champ. Then one year he tried a set of Hooker adjustable headers. It took 15 passes and subsequent primary/ collector length changes just to get it to ET as good as before the change.
I would like to see a comparison of a degreed cam vs a non degreed cam🤔
That was so interesting about cam timing. My son who is 18 was just asking me about it yesturday while he is helping rebuild a 1961 SBC. . I'm going to show him this.
What about using exhaust cutouts opening up after 4000 RPM that could work.... Keep testing.
it could indeed
Like a slippy pipe in a 2 stroke race kart, a cable operated length adjustment gave it another 1000 rpm up top on a little 100cc Yamaha.
Couple inches of travel if I remember correctly
Pro stock engines are running really short headers with a collector that looks like a funnel. The difference is a 10,000 rpm engine instead of 6,000.
What I found with header length is it's not necessarily HP level to size a header, but mostly rpm range.
Hmm... U go to a hockey game and end up watching a wrestling match...interesting.. 🤣🤣🤣 came here for the cam knowledge and recieved exhaust flow info..
As always, Great usable info. I appreciate your testing & the data it produces.
Thanks.
Stay Real.
Electronically controlled electric, exhaust cut out, at 4200. Thanks for the tip. Great, great show.
Corvette ZO6
I posted the same thing then deleted it when I read yours.
@@cuzz63 lol, sorry. Someone said the new vette has it. But, I dont think it is automatic. Thanks.
Lots of cars have them ran off of vacuum signal, high vacuum keeps them closed at idle then when your heavy on the throttle they open
@@knowbull5hit590 I did not know that. I see there are rpm activation switches built into some new gauges. 😁
Do a 180 degree header test!! Vids are great
Always wanted to know how much it changes the curve, thanks.
There's a guy that built his own VVT system for his turbo dodge, it replaced the tensioner and idler pullies and iirc could adjust a total of 14 ish degrees.
Its as basic as such things get, you would basically see your curves at either point you wanted to run tue cam and set the switchover for the crossover point, boom you got your self nice top end with easy starting and a better idle. Probably a bit of olw end also that you might otherwise be missing if you had your cam set for best power.
Something I would like to see on a V8, and i might try on my little Mazda lol.
I forget which race car it was on, but Porsche used sliding intake stacks once to optimize their power @ RPM. Cool stuff.
They use it on production 911 motors as well
@@richardholdener1727 That's awesome. Ya learn something new every day (if you pay attention).
I really want to see some side by side comparisons of VVT LS cams vs. cams with the same specs that are fixed. Texas speed offers several VVT grinds. The web is full of mixed opinions on VVT. Would love to see some actual testing!
I can't run VVT cams
Richard Holdener dont have an ECU capable?
@@richardholdener1727 That is unfortunate...... most all of the newer LS ECU's all run VVT and DOD. (I can't stand DOD though)
As a young man in the 80s, everyone who installed a cam complained about killing low end torque. We were all shoving cams in low compression engines and it really sucked it you picked a cam from the mild of the page. I always wondered if we could have made up some torque by advancing the the cam.
I don't understand how you only have 84,000 subscribers when you have by far the most informative awesome information I've ever seen on RUclips and then you have that giraffe in Florida running around doing all kinds of stupid s*** and he has millions of subscribers. But it's okay that's why the ugly car with $2,000 will whoop up on the $40,000 Corvette. because we have your information and know what works.
I’m guessing an X Or H pipe would negate the muffler effect since that becomes the starting point for the negative pressure wave. Thumbs up for yet another great splainer vid!
the X or H pipe will still add collector length before the cross over
A lot of sport bikes have a butterfly valve in the exhaust for torque production, just like Richard showed in this dyno graph at about 4,100 RPM.
This was insightful. Thanks Richard. Better late than never. 😎
I'm curious what happens if you add a 90 off the collectors. Does it act like adding serval feet of exhaust?
You don't need a sliding exhaust pipe. Just a exhaust dump. You hook it up, so that it's closed till X RPM then the dump opens up and makes the run shorter. Problem solved. With the computer that most cars run, you build into the system a preset number to trip the electric solenoid to open the exhaust dump. Plus the transition would be smooth and seamless. You could do this on your dyno.
I want a sliding length to see if there is power to be had during the transition
@@richardholdener1727 So like the two stroke go karts with there slipper pipe...
hey Richard try that old motorcycle tuner's trick where you put on a length of pipe, spraypaint a line on it, run the engine for 10 mins and then cut the pipe off where the paint stops burning off.. that trick has never failed to work for me on naturally aspirated engines
18 inches is what we generally use on the dyno with no mufflers
Have you ever run a dyno test on true roller vs gear drive vs belt? And if any was the power loss'/gain negligible?
Now You gotta set up an engine with variable intake and exhaust lengths that adjust with rpm use cut outs and varied length pipes on the exhaust and solenoid actuators on the intake stacks
Backing off - the cam timing is the way to go IMO The more compression you have the more you can rewind the cam without hurting the low end that much. My combo, lq4 with LS3 flat tops, stock 706 heads and a 220/224 115 -4 119 ICL custom comp cam
Thanks Richard, this is my favourite channel, from NZ.
Wow, thanks
looks like a 2 bolt main street motor would like advance. thanks mr. holdener
Very cool test. It would also be fun to see a collector length study. Same engine, same headers, but with 0", 6", 12", 18", and 24" extensions.
I've done collector length-not much change after 24 inches
Well matching everything, carb, headers, cam, heads, gas, compression. My 383 loved a 750 carb, 1.75 primary tubes, high rise dowel plain with retarded timming. We did the 600,650, 1.625 tubes, single ,dowel intakes, advanced, retarded timming. And found the sweet all around spot, 650 hp, 670 torque. Know custom cnc,heads,intake, custom carb, we do not know what to expect. Great vid seeing what was what is always great instead of what if,cause what if can get expensive.
I wonder if one can program a butterfly valve to open the exhaust around it's sweet spot to further fine tune an engine
Used a lot in street bikes in the factory exhaust. Helps optimize the operation over a wide range of rpm
It’s called a exhaust cut out and with Holley dominator controlling it anything is possible
You can do it with a cut out and a nitrous window switch
Apexi make them
Ever dyno a try y header suppose to give a engine a flatter torque curve richard
Richard, I am extremely interested in your opinion on an issue I'm presently faced with. I'm assembling a 383 sbc for my daily driven 4x4 truck. 5.7" rods, 24cc dish D-cup pistons, AFR 190 Vortec heads. Truck will retain the factory Vortec intake with upgraded 36lb injectors, and a ported throttle body(76mm).
I'm having a custom ground hydraulic roller made for this engine. I've pretty much settled on these lobes...
266°/266°
210°/214°
.505"/.495"
I'm still torn between 110 or 112 lsa because IVC point is my main concern. Simulations show that my best torque curve is produced with a 56-58° IVC event. The catch is that I want this truck to run happily on 87 octane fuel. My static compression will be right at 9.0:1. When I advance the intake events to attain the best low to midrange torque and throttle response, I end up with a dynamic compression ratio in the 7.6-7.8 range. I'm concerned that I will have to pull so much timing to avoid detonation that it won't be worth the effort to run the advanced cam timing.
Ultimately, my question is which has greater effect on torque production and throttle response in the 2000-3500rpm range......valve event timing or ignition advance?
valve events and dynamic compression are not the only things that determine detonation-run the tighter lsa with that cam
RPM activated exhaust cutouts.
Dont corvettes do that already?
What about those switches that switch from Muffler to open you could maybe leave the muffler connected for the first 3000 RPM and then open it up at 4000 and see what the difference would be
Richard,
I have a older 350 and am thinking of going with the Edelbrock package of heads manifold and such, I was looking at the 400 plus hp version, have you had good luck with installing these heads out of the box
Thanks
Oh yeah, I gotta watch this! We always went faster after drilling 1" holes in the mufflers.
Awesome video, I have three questions 1st are those 600s vacuum secondaries or manual 2nd what size jetting did you end up with and 3rd what was the overall timing...love the videos, learning gobs and gobs keep it up
how cool would it be to use your idea of sliding exhaust with vvt timed in sync to take advantage of it.
I'm building this exact engine except it's a stroker 383 with rpm air gap and 286hr magnum cam.
I'm questioning my cam choice though. Should I get an xr282hr or xr288hr instead?
Don't care about vacuum and have 4.11 gears. Don't want to rev past 6,200.
Love the videos. You have the most specific details I have found on RUclips.
I've always degreed a cam while installing it. Always been told it's the best optimized, and to ensure valve to piston clearance. Not sure how far off the timing would have to be before you run into issues. Interesting seeing the results though. Definitely not what I was expecting.
Typically, yes. Degreeing is the right way to do it. Even if you don't know what the numbers mean, never assume cam gears and crank gears and the cam for that matter, were made correctly. Be surprised what I have seen. Also, the results in this video are not typical, and will vary for each application. If the cam was way off, you would see different results. Would hate for people to take that graph reading out of context, and think the minimal power differences are the same for every engine. Results vary depending on how off the combination is. Same goes for any part on the engine..
Run a nitrous controller to pair of electric dumps?
I would like to see a comparison between putting zoomie headers vs all other kinds. Because it seems like there would be a loss in power going zoomies but thats what they use on nitro funny cars. thanks for all the good content Richard!
@Neal Head haha, its crazy how you can feel the power in your chest when one of those things take off
Engine masters did a cool exhaust test with Zoomies
R.H. ..........new a stocker guy, H/SA with a Varicam back in the seventies it worked !!!!!!
I was surprised that removing the muffler effected the low rpm torque that much. Have you ever tested an exhaust system with headers, a crossover on the header pipes (no mufflers) and a side exit similar to what NASCAR uses?
Nascar uses application specific Tri-Y headers
I saw a variable timing setup on an older style Chevy in the engine masters competition was this a one off or something that just didn't catch on
It's just not easy to screw up a SBC.
don't spill it
👍🔔
WOW
5:00 This is the first time that I have heard anyone doing cam degreeing mention CHAIN STRETCH/ wear...
👍👍👍😎😎
Your idea on adjustable/tunable exhaust length. What about a remote exhaust cutout installed in between? Wonder if that’d do the trick?
Pretty sure the Comp 282 has 4 degrees ground in. So when you install it "dot to dot" with a 110 LSA, have you determined that the ICL was 106? Curious. THAT is going to reflect in the results.
I think I covered that possibility
4-2-1 headers were a beast on 440 magnum
I would like to see this test repeated DOHC engine. Would be interesting to see the effects of overlap verse having Near having no overlap. Would also like to see the test repeated again under boost. Would be interesting to see how it affects the boost Curves.
It would do the same thing. It actually comes factory on most DOHC engines nowadays to make more torque down low and more hp up top. Boost is just more air into the engine as long as the back-pressure isn’t too high.
@@mr.know_it_all its not that simple. Smaller frame turbos can't tolerate to much overlap where as a larger frame turbo can and its actually better for it. I'd really like to see how it affects the ramp on of boost. How early/late it peaks and holds.
Use the standard equation to calculate header length. 45" primaries really pick up low end. Zooomies are the right length for a high rpm drag engine. Adjustable collectors are available. AS Vizard says you will not lose hp with the right muffler. Try no header at all . Straight from the head. Amazing what that does.
Captain Richard
The Dyno King !!!
So you wanna build that collector extension with a pair of actuators and a throttle position sensor?
I have done this before and sometimes less low end torque makes a better 60' and more midrange gets you a quicker 330' time.
Great videos ! I was only thinking about this yesterday !!
i'm not only running mufflers and a full exhaust but it would be interesting to see what difference a larger wastegate would make. i'm running dual 60mm gates.
A wastegate controls boost. Still takes X amount of pressure in the exhaust to make target boost. A bigger wastegate would just take less movement to make target boost.
Race outbourd motors and some race karts have adjustable headers.
What is the maximum power you can put through the back wheels from a standing start before you get wheel spin?
What RPM do you change up a gear?
I guess I'm talking about American cars here, I'm from the UK, so it's not as dumb a question as it seems, yes I know it depends on tiers so I expect a wide range answer.
anywhere from 130crank to 500+whp. A lot more than just hp and torque go into getting a car to accelerate so thats a huge loaded question lol
@@knowbull5hit590 yes, loaded like a thing. My point/question is, do you realy need so much power below a certain revs? Is the trade of worth the extra power in the band you would be accelerating through.
Maybe, sometimes...
Good info Richard.
Late to the party here, but where does one acquire a "Wrong Cam" tee-shirt?
Thanks Richard, very interesting and helpful.
Couldn’t you use a electronic exhaust cutout before the muffler and then have a holley ecu open the cut out at the crossover rpm point in the curve where the shorter exhaust starts to make more power
Have you ever used that self adjusting timing set Competition Products sells?
I have not
@@richardholdener1727 Thanks for your reply. I spent too much time looking for it after I asked you if you've used it, to no avail. Perhaps they took it off of the market. From what I recall it had a chain which was intentional "loose" and it used one or two spring loaded tensioners which expanded as the rpm increased, effectively making the chain "longer" and retarded the cam timing. I wish I could find it.
@@richardholdener1727 Actually, I found it. 😎 It's called Cam Correct.
There are a few options available but I'm not able to identify the differences.
www.competitionproducts.com/mobile/Cam-Correct/products/122/
Very interesting but if you change the cam timing too much isn't it possible to destroy the top end what if you went to injection changed fuel mapping & lean or rich out fuel ???
too much cam advance decrease P-V, so it can hit
Advancing the timing is prop what Im going to do after checking Piston to valve clearances. What happens to compression ratio when you advance the camshaft 4 degrees?
CRANKING COMPRESSION MIGHT GO UP-AS WILL LOW SPEED (AND MID) TORQUE
Great video
Any interest in doing a terminator x test? How close is the base map and maybe some pointers on getting a boosted motor in the ballpark using the initial start up
I don't run terminator
Personally I blame squirrels
I love this guy!
I seen a video of a sliding exhaust setup on a small 2 stroke race boat. Was a 2 cylinder and they picked up 10MPH if I remember right.
2 stroke exhaust (expansion) pipe tuning is different than 4 stroke
You could buy an RPM switch and hook it up to electronic cut outs maybe?
Richard which intake performed better for LS motor, Brain Tolley or Fast LSXR
Fast up to 7000 rpm-then short runner above that
Did the gladiator get a nice retirement to a street car, or did it get flogged until the day it died?
still alive
Best channel ever.......
Great test.
love tunnel rams
Where is the video comparing the tunnel ram to single and dual plane intakes?
Be cool to see a test of some electric cutouts on a rpm switch
I saw you last night on “Fastest car”.
that was fun
@@richardholdener1727 What was your participation? I dropped netflix a while ago. Also, did someone do a nose swap on the Mustang or did they just really get the year wrong (turned a 6 into a 9)?
Richard is this curve pretty much the same regardless of LSA or is the curve more tilted depending the LSA ?I see that with this cam not much was lost at lower rpm, the noticiable gains and loses are at the last upper rpm of the curve.
Tunnel ram rocks! Nice torque and power for a relatively short cam. How about moving those mufflers back to vehicle position, help or hurt?
doesn't change anything after a certain length-then the exhaust tube length can become a flow restriction
If you were putting this engine in, say, a C10, would you keep it at 3” all the way? I’ve seen a test (Engine Masters, l think) that said 3” exhaust was worth 20hp over 2-1/2” at 600hp. Would a tri-Y header be less sensitive? Please keep sending us answers!
Do they make a sbc cam grind to fire in order of a ls style motor, if so what are the pros and cons?
LS firing order was done to reduce harmonics I'm told-not for power
@@richardholdener1727 thanks for your response, love the channel,,, so it's more for durability? Makes total sense
Ok, so what about running a couple pneumatic actuated cut out valves before the muffler? Set them to trigger at 4 grand?