Foundation Season 2 Episode 9 Breakdown Recap Review Ending Explained
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2024
- Foundation Season 2 Episode 9 Breakdown. An in-depth recap and review of S02E09 “Long Ago, Not Far Away” with the ending explained. Please Subscribe 👉 bit.ly/PetePeppers
Episode 9 of Foundation’s second Season changes everything going into the finale. It’s a packed episode with a mini-movie narrated by Cleon I about how Demerzel (Laura Birn) became the closest aide serving Empire. Brother Dusk (Terrence Mann) and Enjoiner Rue (Sandra Yi Sencindiver) are horrified when they learn the truth. On Ignis the drowned Hari Seldon (Jared Harris) returned to save Gaal (Lou Llobell) from Tellem Bond (Rachel House).
Brother Day (Lee Pace) decides he wants to be the Cleon who chose peace and goes to Terminus to meet with their leadership. After discovering what was happening at the church he confronts Dr. Seldon in the Vault. Things fall apart and after a battle in space, he decides to drop the Invictus on the planet to destroy it and bring an end to the First Foundation.
Deep Dive with special guest Foundation Showrunner and Executive Producer David S. Goyer • Foundation Season 2 Ep...
S2, E9
SEPTEMBER 8, 2023
Long Ago, Not Far Away
Dusk and Enjoiner Rue learn Demerzel’s origin and true purpose. Tellem’s plans for Gaal take a dark turn. On Terminus, Day confronts Dr. Seldon.
The Cleonic Dynasty - • Foundation: The Geneti...
Kalle and Oona’s World - • Foundation Season 2 | ...
Apple TV+ released Foundation season 2 on July 14, 2023. The show is an adaptation of Isaac Asimov’s Foundation book series.
More than a century after the season one finale, tension mounts throughout the galaxy in “Foundation” season two. As the Cleons unravel, a vengeful queen plots to destroy Empire from within. Hari, Gaal and Salvor discover a colony of Mentalics with psionic abilities that threaten to alter psychohistory itself. The Foundation has entered its religious phase, promulgating the Church of Seldon throughout the Outer Reach and inciting the Second Crisis: war with Empire. The monumental adaptation of “Foundation” chronicles the stories of four crucial individuals transcending space and time as they overcome deadly crises, shifting loyalties and complicated relationships that will ultimately determine the fate of humanity.
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About Isaac Asimov:
Isaac Asimov was an American writer and professor of biochemistry at Boston University. He was known for his works of science fiction and popular science. Asimov was a prolific writer, and wrote or edited more than 500 books.
Asimov wrote hard science fiction. Along with Robert A. Heinlein and Arthur C. Clarke, Asimov was considered one of the "Big Three" science fiction writers during his lifetime. Asimov's most famous work is the "Foundation" series, the first three books of which won the one-time Hugo Award for "Best All-Time Series" in 1966.
Foundation books:
The Making of Foundation Seasons 1 & 2 amzn.to/3Poic6e
Complete Foundation series - amzn.to/3lpOUnd
🚀Foundation - amzn.to/3qNxv93
🚀Foundation and Empire - amzn.to/3tlUTML
🚀Second Foundation - amzn.to/3eHgU4n
🚀Foundation’s Edge - amzn.to/2Q4u8Ol
🚀Foundation and Earth - amzn.to/3eElYqm
🚀Prelude to Foundation - amzn.to/3bNzq9w
🚀Forward the Foundation - amzn.to/3vxD7YA
🤖 The Robot Series - amzn.to/3dgN59c
👑 The Empire Series - amzn.to/3dbWDT9
I would recommend reading the series in order of publication as they’re listed here. I would advise against reading the prequels first.
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
1:15 Demerzel’s Past
9:46 Ignis
12:59 The Church & The Invictus
17:13 Brother Day & Dr. Seldon
21:10 Demerzel Leaves & The End of Terminus
26:01 Review/Thoughts
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#Foundation #IsaacAsimov #AppleTV 
Развлечения
I found Salvor’s repeated hesitation after every Hugo transformation a bit tiresome … after the 3rd time she faltered I was like “Girl.”
yeah seen a lot of people feeling this same way, it would’ve been more gratifying for salvor to have developed a bit more mental power and used the trick on the guy she was fighting rather than her keep falling for the same trick
@@dudeydude77_clips That would’ve been awesome!
Lol! Same. To be fair though, if someone used a mind trick to pose as one of my kids it would be greatly disturbing.
@@dudeydude77_clipsYep. Instead her trick was activating a trigger lock.
I think one good explanation is that what he was doing was not just changing her perception of his image, but also making her feel how she felt about Hugo - so when she was hurting / killing him he was making her feel that she was killing Hugo as well, not just seeing him like if he had a hologram projected around him
The fact that Hari knew who truly was "Empire" and subtly was trying to convince not the Cleon in front of him but Demerzel herself.
That meeting was one of my favourite parts of the episode and maybe the show so far. He knows who's in charge 😂
Can't wait for the human vs machine vs mentaliks
I didn't notice that until I saw it for the third time. Poor Day didn't even notice he was not being addressed lol
@@fotografiasromero
He's way stupider than Day from last season.
Demerzel’s diss was nuclear. But also I think she is responsible for the change in Cleon the 1st’s DNA. Because he tells her straight out she can’t harm anyone with his same code (DNA) and it’s been a long game to escape her new prison which is serving them. Once the DNA is different enough nothing can stop her from killing them and taking over. Also when she mentioned the fact she is the only one that can create new robots I think she might be secretly making more as well.
Demerzel serves the concept of Empire at this point, not just his DNA. How else could she have killed Dawn in Season 1 when it was found out he was trying to escape? Like Dawn and Dusk are constantly afraid of this season, they can always just decant another one.
I do still think it was Demerzel that altered the DNA but if that's all that was needed then she would have killed them and escaped by now if that was her goal. I think her goals are more complicated than just escaping.
@@ClydeFogI don’t think she means to escape. I think she means to take over completely. Perhaps she was able to kill dawn because of his different DNA but the Cleons don’t know that’s she’s incapable because of their altered memories.
Ikr 😂 cleon just stayed quiet he didnt known how to react
@@ClydeFogmaybe she cant escape so she needed them a little but longer
I wondered that, too. How Demerzel could have killed Season 1 Dawn. Now a way is possible, if the DNA having been altered changes the "code" that Cleon 1 mentions. Demerzel altering the code makes perfect sense except that, wouldn't her programming to preserve the genetic dynasty prevent her from doing so? She definitely plays the long game.
What I love about Hari and Demerzel is that they are compimentary in their roles. his calculations don't predict individual choices while her choices are all directed by an individual
A centralized government vs a decentralized
* Which is why Empire falls, no? *
No, the Galactic Empire did not fall because of Demerzel. The Galactic Empire is falling because of economics. The Galactic Empire is too set in its way to change.
🎯🎯🎯
@@StevenSiew2 "economics" LUL
Well said!
I'm 81yrs old and read Asimov's Foundation series as a young teenager. I still have his books on my bookshelf. Nice to see he'a still alive in the eyes and minds of SF fans.
Sf?
@markobolo4465 Science Fiction
I too, am older than most in these chat groups -so glad to see that I am not alone in the older set! I read the books over a summer long ago, and then used the books to get my two sons -- and now one grandson - into reading. Worked like a charm! I urge that you reread them all if you haven't already. It's truly fun to find little nuggets that have either been forgotten or that are newly caught with raised eyebrows. If the Apple series does nothing else, it has introduced a new generation to the works of Asimov.
@@michaellerner528 I haven't watched the Apple series so I don't know if my favourite Asimov quotation made it into the series:
"Violence is the last resort of an incompetent".
@@johnwilson4120 Yikes! how do I put this..... Yes, the quotation made it into the series, said by Salvor as (she) was holding a high capacity weapon, ready to use it on a moments notice. I had at least hoped she might smoke a cigar, but alas, we lost out on that one as well. That quote is a lifetime favorite of mine - and so many others - as well. Especially these days! I stopped watching the series after the first season as I didn't want to pay for it. All I 'm doing in the chat groups is trying to find ways to defend the books, urging people to read them.
When hari demerzel and day were talking I loved how hari spoke to demerzel directly when he intended to make a point like if they were the adults talking and day was just the annoying toddler in the room
Tellem being beat into a pulp was so satisfying! Much better than her being the mule.
Hari very much represents Asimov himself, I do not think he as pacifist and atheist would split skull of another person.
You couldn’t have said it any better
What if Tellem made them think she died while she shows as Harry, or she has successfully transferred to Gaal?
@@geokon3 she does seem like the Mule and was terrified of him. I dont think she would fool Hari twice, it seems like it was him because his outfit is the same. The transfer wouldn't be complete because the machine was activated to disrupt the brainwaves, I don't think she would have been able to fool them when it was activated.
that is a fair point, however, Tellem is so fucking hateable, well make a collective exception for her@@Feefa99
one thing, when day got angry and swiped away the stuff at seldon table its because he said "and you would've just uncorked another one" as in seldon called day a "wine" as in the quote from season 1 "just another grape, destined for the same old bottle".
Ikr 💀
I also think Day was pissed because this reminds him that he is a clone without a soul, and implies that Demerzel is that real power behind the throne because she can just create more copies of him whenever she wants to do so.
...and possibly: "The God's made wine for those whom can not afford revenge"?
@@themidcentrist nah his main frustration is that he is born a copy and his main fear is that he will not make a difference. Thats why he felt the need to say i will be the cleon that will choose peace
Man the level of narcissism in Cleon the first blows me away. I really felt for Demrozel’s plight
He is the worst most evil version of Cleon by far....
Forreal
the robots went to war with humans, and they lost. when you aim for the king you better not miss, or you might find yourself sentient and vivasected placed in a 5 thousand year tomb then enslaved to a clone dynasty for god knows how long more. it's in the handbook.
She is sooo tired of humans, am I right?!
@@universalcollective427 pretty sure a lot of the technology they had back then was lost im not sure theyll be able to win now
My favorite scene is when Day loses it when Harry told Demerzel "You would have just uncorked another one" 🤣 on why he didn't just kill them
And the look on Hari's face like 'You're not fit to run an ice cream stand, let alone a galactic realm.'
This episode makes that scene in season 1 where she rips her face much more tragic. She`s the most tortured soul of all the characters and yet she`s not even human! I`m also loving the game of chess played out by the seemingly immortal beings on this show The digital selves, the clones selves, the mechanical selves and the hibernating selves!!
Agreed 100%
Exactly. Demerzel has more humanity than humans, even in the OG
Proliferation of immortal beings on this show gotta stop!
also, you missed the "mentalick psyche transferred to another body" selves.
@@nitzky8936 that line is over with thanks to a good bashing from one of the other immortals. Also I would not be surprised if the Mule turns out to be the kid we saw helping Salvor. 🤷
@@RandomNPC001
My money was on the Mule being Tellem, after she transferred her consciousness into the kid's body, but considering she was genuinely afraid of him, yeah, it's just the kid.
Lee Pace killed it in this episode!! He's been great in both seasons to be fair. Things felt sluggish after a slow start to the season, it's really picked up and has been a pleasant surprise. Great episode for sure!!
This is some of the best sci-fi I have seen in years!!! Thought provoking and visually stunning with depth!!! I pray it gets a season 3.
Yasss
Pretty sure they would've announced S3 by now if it weren't for the months long writers/actors strike. Sadly, the strike is going to result in very delayed seasons of a lot of good shows.
4 season's , just an F y i
But a lot of people say it's deviating from the books although I haven't read them
@@markobolo4465 each book has a new generation of character's , where as in the tv show , there fixed on only a few , which is why i like pauly in season 2
Hari sez: "I never liked her." - PURE GOLD!!!
Jared Harris...WOW!
In "Foundation" and previously in "Chernobyl", "The Expanse", "Mad Men", "Fringe", Harris has shown that he got the goods.
harris is real deal, the genuine article
Don't forget terror season 1. Also his father Richard Harris was a legendry actor. Dumbledor in Harry potter
And he was also Moriaty in the Sherlock Holmes movies.
"The Expanse" was just another level....
@@ABDULQADIR-yy6qmi'd say with this episode, foundation has overtaken the expanse. but ofc, the expanse is still the gold standard in hard scifi.
OMG, this show! Every performance was spot on. Demerzel's story was heartbreaking. When she kept telling Cleon, quietly, "This isn't freedom," as she recognized that she would have to trade one prison for another? The subtlety of that performance was stunningly beautiful. What will she do now that she knows she has failed to help Day become the kind of leader, the kind of man, Empire requires? What will Bel Rios do now that he has nothing (and no one) left to lose? The one thing that kept Bel loyal to Empire was the thought of horrific visions of the killing of Glawyn being broadcast before him for the rest of Bel's life. That's off the table. I expect Bel will somehow help Constant and Homer Mallow escape, and that will play into the Second Foundation.
Gaal and Salvor's story on Ignis is set days or more before what we see happen on Terminus. I think there is a reason, and the fact we have been shown that mentalics can project illusions might play into my theory that Terminus wasn't destroyed. If the mentalics projected the illusion to fool Empire, and no one on Terminus died, we might see Glawyn talk to Bel over the private comm that he had established - fueling Bel's desire to aide Foundation. It would take a lot of mentalics to project that scale of an illusion but with the aide of the Spacers they might be able to get there in time. Perhaps the spacers tagged Hober Mallow based to help Gaal - remember, Gaal's story is taking place before Hober is found by Poly. Gaal could have a future vision of Terminus and know what to do.
@@mojorothat’s a stunning, ambitious take. If it goes down like this I’d like to see how they swing it.
b not m
Cleons will fall, she will be exposed as being ‚the enemy resurrected‘ and go into hiding. She will have ‚robots in disguise‘ planted throughout the empire to aid her in her goals (whatever they are)
Except for Gael
Fun fact, Roxann Dawson, aka Star Trek Voyager's B'Elanna Torres, directed this episode and the last. Wow, she's an amazing director!
Incredible, didn't know that, loved Voyager
Wow
She has directed many different shows, she's very talented.
Very good directing.
Shit writing .. especially with Foundations "lack of" preparation for war .. and ... the great escaped from powerful Mentallics by Gaal & Salvor.
The Foundation had 150 odd years ... to prepare for war with Empire .. and all they had was the Invictus, multiple Whisper ships .. and .. a church making all sorts of high tech gadgets.
A grade for Directing.
C+ Writing.
Yes, I wondered if that was the same person. She's also got 'executive producer' credits in Foundation.
My God, that episode was EVERYTHING! Tthe Demerzel backstory was done so well; its what we've all been waiting for and it turns out to be much more sinister that I could have imagined! And that ending was, just, WOOOOW!
Great review as always, Pete!
A very nice episode but i wasnt expecting Terminus to be destroyed. cuz now in fact there's no foundation except for the prime Radiant
@@gonderAmh did the Foundation scientists get evacuated as prisoners?
@@gonderAmhThere's literally a book called The Second Foundation, it's mentioned all throughout the series as well.
I just finished and came here immediately……shit I’m blown away…
yes but no, the second foundation is supposed to exist at the same timeline as the 1st, and except if i missed something, we have no info about the 2nd foundation,and to me its not yet created, since gaal chose something else. @@laszlosteiner
By telling Day her opinion, she hurt him emotionally. Earlier she wasn't able to hurt him, even emotionally. That is why she told the first Cleon that she loved him. I think Hari freed Demerzel while she was in his presence. And this will start the undoing of the Empire: Demerzel will make copies of herself and bring everything down. There will be a war between robots and humanity - again (That's my theory at least.)
Omg this is the best take yet i really think he did
Another crisis before The Mule perhaps
She potentially started making robots long ago, physical Hari is probably a robot, Kalle is probably a robot, Hari’s lover was most likely a robot and wasn’t really pregnant… someone’s pulling his strings for sure.
@@djBlindFaith
Bedroom assassination episode, she stated that her consciousness is “decentralized”.
That would imply multiple physical spares of herself, with the same directive to serve the empire.
Then also safe to assume creating robots with three robotic laws built in , repeats past enslavement of her kind.
And reproducing robots with free will, is against her programming.
So what is her end game, ending the clone dynasty? Or taking down the entire empire , aka whole galaxy of humans to gain her freedom?
ohhh, I like that, I thought he may have uploaded information into her, somehow, just like he tagged a ride inside Brother Constant. But I think you may be right with Hari altering her code and freeing the shackles, a bit.
"No. I've met outliers. You're not one of them." Hari dismissively says to Day. Hari just said to Demrezel "You're programed to serve Empire, correct? What serves it best? Is an Empire's primary objective power or longevity? You can't have both. Which of those outcomes Do You Actually Desire?" It's remarkable; Hari is saying Day is irrelevant, only Demrezel's desires matter and can make a difference. A short time later Hari offers Demrezel the Prime Radiant, meaning he's trusting her with the future of the universe. It's hard not to think that Demrezel is a true outlier here and Hari knows it. The irony of a sentient robot deliberately programmed to be denied any freedom of choice being one of the only individuals who can actually make a choice which materially changes the outcome of history is incredibly compelling. As we watch Demrezel on her ship looking at Terminus as it implodes; it appears she's made that choice.
Omg, when I saw Harry, Cleon and Demerzel all together in one intimate room allowed me to see how Harry and Day are both immortal copies and Demerzel is a robot highlighting the idea of “longevity” that Harry speaks about. That was my favorite scene! This was the BEST episode, hands down.
I don't think you understand. Harl is now a Robot A.I. and so is the "Prime Radiant" it has a Robot A.I. that Harl did not create. Then their is Demerzel as well, this not looking good for Brother Day who doesn't really know what is going on.
@@Madame702 I do understand that, but that’s not what I’m talking about. When I saw all three of them together in that one scene, I realized that they all have the common thread of longevity in their story line. Harry and Cleon are not their original selves because they’ve managed a way to bypass the constraints of mortality by prolonging their time and existence to see their plans unfold. Since Demerzel is a robot she naturally has time on her side. They’re the only 3 characters of the show that share that common thread of longevity.
To your point, yes, it’s not looking good for Day because he’s unable to see the destruction that his Ego is creating, hence becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy if Demerzel doesn’t take heed of Harri’s advice.
@@3cords_1braidyou’re entirely correct. Well spotted.
The Empire- Clones
Hari- the Vault nanotech
Demerzel- Robot
Kalle- Prime Radiant
Gaal and Salvor- Cryopods
The last two episodes have been insane! I'm fully invested in every single storyline now. I feel like this is one of those shows that's gonna gain a real cult status in years to come.
I kinda hope so, Game of Thrones was outstanding serie that have a massive cult talking about it. But Foundation, as a book or serie could potentially be bigger than that if only in could reach a large audience.
Now that Demrezel has confirmed she has been in different bodies, we probably can assume that she was at some point in the past R. Daneel Olivaw. That would close the loop with this version of Asimov story where they have included the robot novels from the beginning.
The detail I really liked was the choice of quoting from the Bhagavad Gita. The main thread of the Gita is the question of whether a war is just; Arjuna (the warrior) hesitates before going into battle because he doubts whether it is right to cause so much death. I think this foreshadows a dilemma that Bel will face.
This episode was really good but I think this entire season has been wonderful.
Indeed. It was a bit jarring in season 1 given how different this show is firm the books but it has really come into its own in season 2 and is now its own creation.
This is the best written episode of television this year. It’s kind of sad that the show is not more popular.
If it was on a more popular streaming service, it would be.
Then again, if that service was Netflix, it would've been cancelled after S1 because it didn't instantly get 100 million views or whatever...
@@corey2232Well, Ted Lasso did just fine on Apple. But they definitely need to make a better job marketing it. Season. 1 didn’t do much…
@@corey2232 And it would look way worse
The problem is, it isn't remotely the Foundation series. It's about 10% of the plot, 40% of the characters and 5% of the scientific speculation of the books. Very frustrating to watch.
@PeterDrake imho - apple tv+'s foundation is more like 10% from books (might be less) 10% game of throne 10% star wars 5% x-men apocalypse 30% cgi (out of this 5% science stuff crap) n 25% character 10% sjw disney horses***
Ps1: the books had psycho-historians in Terminus the whole time but this show has zero p-historian there!!!!!😢
2: channel video review was good; but the cgi was v v good
3: again imho - story writing was good ep1-5 ok for 6-7 terrible for 8 n 9
4: the theme of foundation (I love when I read book 1) was doing small things to change undesired outcome in history (this is missing in these ep.s esp. after ep6 maybe also 5)
I m only happy bcoz cgi was excellent, n acting
I love Empire at the very end grinning with pure malice, he's such a villain.
Demerzel's pause is probably an alert she got that Dusk and Rue got caught in the trap.
No show without Lee Pace, he is amazing
I love how HARI SELDON talks to Demerzel more than Day😂😂he knows, its demerzel who has the authority.
I was actually expecting Demerzel to just basically take Day out or freeze him and later just make him forget, to discuss with Hari in private.
Yeap! and he tells her "you'll just uncork another" which really pisses him off. It reminds him that he is a clone with apparently no soul.
What a sick episode. My jaw hit the floor once the Invictus’ crash imploded the planet. I’m hoping Demerzel arc does not revert to a “robots revolt” and its more like she leaves the Empire behind as everything collapses around Day.
No but please remember the "Prime Radiant" has the Robot A.I. Kali within it. Will it influence Demerzel? She has been alone for so long how will she react to coming in contact with another Robot after so long. Can Kali change her A.I. ?
Well the "robots revolt" caricature is from Isaac Asimov. I would be surprised if they would not delve deeper into the three laws of robotics and why they were insufficient to prevent such revolution. It's something that really exists as a theoretical problem and there is no way to this day that would give us capability to permanently control truly sentient AI.
@@aleks5405 No they don't have the rights to that but they will light touch on it because "The foundation" series they do have rights to that. Just remember Demerzel is in both Robot and Foundation. So they walk a line where the Demerzel of Foundation exist and not go into the Robot Demerzel.
@@aleks5405 It is an Isaac Asimov trope BUT David Goyer is waaaaaaay off the map from the source material. And in this case, I prefer to hope that the hubris of man is ultimately what doomed him. As Seldon said, you can’t have both longevity and power.
Hold that thought about leaving the mess of the Empire..... Goyer mentioned that the seires will end like the books in his interview with Pete. No spoilers - just hold that thought.
Let’s just say most of us weren’t expecting what happened in this episode…😮
It could be the prime radiant hacking the visuals , I hope foundation as a series doesn't do something as cheap but hey who knows
That is the understatement of the year. I mean WTF!!! Terminus was DESTROYED??!!??
When did that happen in the books?? We are in uncharted territory now
I just hope they don't do some stupid time traveling to the past and bring it back. I have no idea where the story is going to go now.@@Doremon95
Been waiting all day for your video
Lol, me too!!!!
Me to 😅
Same.
Also on this ride.
"All Day"... Like Brother Day....
Watching Cleon and Demerzel get to know each other reminded me so much of Ex Machina. Cleon falling for a machine who was simply analyzing him and giving back the emotions he needed was fascinating. Watching her feed his ego by telling him how he lights up a room felt like she was gaining the upper hand. Having Cleon best her was quite unexpected even though we know she ends up serving Empire.
My thoughts exactly... It's virtually plagiarism!
Also that scene between Bel and Glawen was just so gut wrenching! This episode was so good!!
Dermezel was likely alerted by the Cleon 1 program and called back to reset Brother Dusk for knowing the truth. And with Brother Day's crazies kicking in and Brother Dawns betrayal.. she might end up resetting all three and killing everyone else.
This story is so good that the fighter battle seemed to slow down the pace 😂
🤣😂😂😂😂
Right? Like ahhhhh I can just relax for a minute here and stop wondering about all the plot twists. ❤
The space battle was a joke. Foundation had 150 years to prepare for war with Empire .. including copying & improving the Invictus ... and all they had ... was the Invictus, multiple whisper ships with guns .. and .. and a Church making the latest greatest tech.
FFS. Salvor Hardin ... stopped the Huntress .. jumping the Invictus .. into Trantor to destroy it completely ... and nobody on Terminus ... though have have Whisper ship Drones ... loaded with nukes ... prepare to jump into any of Empire's Battleships ... protecting the entire planet?
@@abelincoln8885true, and they have boxes of personal shealds but no one was using them wtf is this. I was hoping for epic battle for terminus but they delivered nothing.
@@abelincoln8885 I didn’t feel “robbed” of a great battle because I don’t think that’s what Foundation is about. I expect that from Star Wars but not Foundation.
But you’re not wrong, as there was some build up to this and confidence by the Foundation in winning the inevitable coming conflict with Empire.
Maybe Terminus was some sort of decoy? The Foundation now has a presence in other systems
A well written series where it isn't clear about the finale is always a joy to experience.
That ending?!..
I was in stunned shock, staring at nothing for must have been 5 minutes afterwards.
This is the deep dive review I always look for when it comes to Foundation. Go Pete Peppers! Thanks dude ;)
came here to say the same thing. Way to go Pete!
i recommend the podcast with the show runner too.
no problem
I think the fact that the Prime Radiant still exists and wasn't destroyed with the planet will come into play in the continuation of the Foundation. I think Hari's essence is in the prime radiant itself rather than in the obelisk - or you could say he can transfer into it. Day is essentially bringing Hari with him back to Trantor which may prove to be his final undoing.
Maybe that is what will bring the second foundation to Trantor?
Where it was supposed to be accordingvto the books.
Denrozel most likely had to eject to terminus to deal with brother dusk being now trapped in the force field
I'm not convinced that Terminus was really destroyed or that we can trust anything we saw in this episode. Seldon and the Vault can incinerate people, yet he did nothing while Day took the Radiant and destroyed Terminus. Also it seems like he basically tricked Day into taking the Radiant with him. Seldon seemed to imply everything that was happening was still predicted in the math and Day's behaviour wasn't the surprise he thought it would be, so... I think something else might be going on.
I partially agree with you, but the destruction of Terminus looked pretty definitive to me. I hope they don't fall back into the trope of a time rewind, or it was just all in Day's head, as he is actually back in the vault with Seldon.
@@chs_ambs8356 well don't forget Hari wrote Hober Mallow on the Vault long after it appeared to them. The 4-dimensional nature of the Prime Radiant could make a lot of things possible. I guess we'll find out in a week.
When he said to Demerzel “invent a new one” I felt like he was saying “raise a better Cleon than this dude bro you brought me.”
@@kilgarywhen she told day that she had already failed and to let him do what he was always bound to do and it wasn’t their “win”
It could be in Cleon's head, since Demerzel in the books is a robot with mentallic powers so she could somehow control his mind
I could watch Jared Harris and Lee Pace all day. Both he and Pace are two of the best actors around.
"An ending nobody saw coming"
I actually almost did. I once joked that the series has driven itself so far away from book canon that if they blow up Trantor in the next episode, I wouldn't be surprised. And I hate that my joke was so close to what actually ended up happening
I suspect they will blow up Trantor very soon. Shows often follow the “this is going to be awful (ie destroy terminus)” followed by something even worse (trantor destroyed or another planetary system)……..
Demerzel's complexity and mystery makes her by far my favorite character. Cannot wait for the season finale.
The only thing I dislike about the changes at this point (as much as this is NOT the foundation book's story tht plot could never be filmed) is that Bel Riose in the book was unfailingly loyal to the Empire and the Emperor. That made his being yanked back at the moment of triumph all the more tragic and I cannot see us getting that story beat here. It really highlighted the point that the means used to keep the Empire alive at that point were also the thing killing it.
Otherwise the Cleon story really does explore Asimov's themes really well. And the actor playing Seldon is so good I will take any excuse to keep him around some more.
Yeah, the books would'be been really difficult to film in any direct way. What they've managed to build from its foundation (ha?) is actually quite impressive though. I know some people were lukewarm on S1, but I've greatly enjoyed S2 overall. In fact, this episode in particular was one of the best episodes of TV I've seen this year.
@@corey2232I agree completely. Season 2 really stepped up their game.
Agreed!
I also love the portrayal of Seldon's character. Jared Harris is such a great actor; Loved him in the mini series "Chernobyl", in the first season of the "Terror" series, and in "Sherlock Holmes: A game of Shadows" as Moriarty!
I hope the show runners don't kill off his Character!
The books in their written format were unfilmable. This adaptation while staying a long way from the books in story structure has kept the spirit of the story and that’s what counts.
This was my FAVORITE episode! I loved the backstory of Demerzel! Also so sad the director of terminus never got to know his daughter survived the attack and was alive 😢
Why make such a big deal about the Invictus in the first season only to have it sit there most of the second doing nothing only to get its ass kicked the second it comes into play? I was kind of disappointed.
It was still important though. It was the key to developing their whisper ship technology.
Something I noticed: Demerzel started holding her hands in front of her when she was forced to have 'love' for the Cleon I by the device inserted into the back of her neck. I take this to indicate that while she does 'love' him, it is only because she is forced to do so against her will. She is still doing this when Cleon XVII is the brother day. This means that her love continues to be forced against her will 600+ years later.
She will probably drop her hands, when she will have the chance/ power to disobey ..
From the first encounter of her in Season 1, I always saw this hand hold as submission and absolute dedication to 'Empire'.
My guess at why she suddenly pauses and leaves, is that somehow she founds out the current Dawn is now a father and his DNA is mixed with Sareth's, so basically she is not bound anymore to the next heir to the throne. So at that point she knows she can ditch Day. Basically the chip forcing her to do that is useless. And she might be free. Or soon.
@@Pomaufour Most likely she got an urgent message from the original empire:)). So far the show didn't show us this capability of the future Asimov envisioned but it exist in canon. I think the consciousness' of Joanne d'Arc and Voltaire where somehow recreated.??
A hell of a thing.
Hard to see how even so experienced a robot could survive such conflicted programming.
Man. Episode 9 was fire. Ready for the finally.
Demerzel storyline is gonna be so 🔥.. she's over 18,000 yrs old. Wow..
As Day leaves the Vault, he says “they always disappoint you, don’t they?” Isn’t that what they say about “never meet your heroes”? This Day really thought highly of Hari!
He said it to Poly, who literally worships Harry
Lee Pace is the only reason I keep coming back to this show. He is just perfect in the role of brother Day even though it is not book concept it is the only thing that show got me really hooked on.
All great movies / series are good because they have a great villain/actor , look at batman for example :)
This is the only way I'll be able to watch this show.
By far, your's is the best "Recap" channel. I hesitate to say Recap even. You really paint a fuller picture than the others I've seen.
You have a gift MrPete, thanx for sharing it with us. ✌🏻😎
kind words
Goodness gracious, I sat there mouth open, aghast, shock for 10 mins after the episode ended.
What a bombshell of an episode. Definitely didn't anticipate that ending with the destruction of the entire planet of Terminus for good. Already when I watched it there was some suspicion in me that this is just a misdirect and possibly not the reality. And after watching the interview with Goyer, I feel even more so that in the finale episode they will pull some shenanigans to make things right. Let's see if the ghost of Tellem Bond made an escape (to the boy, possibly) before she was savagely beaten to death by the sudden reappearance of the cloned-and-believed-dead Hari Seldon. We also still need to see what will become of Sareth and the other Empire Brothers on Trantor.
All in all, the most intriguing story is Demerzel's which this very episode fleshed out nicely with the over 600-year-old flashbacks. Her sudden reaction when back on board the Imperial jump ship from Terminus, her subsequent emotional takedown of Day, and then leaving for Trantor without him definitely added more excitement for what's to come in the finale. Cannot wait to see the S2 conclusion. Roxann Dawson did a marvelous job directing episodes 8 and 9 for the second season. Kudos to her.
I am glad we already have some confirmation via Goyer for more seasons to come.
Pete your breakdowns have become just as good as watching the episodes, you’re attention to detail is spot on and I look forward to these every week! Thank you so much! One question that I’m still trying to get my head around… if Demerzel is bound by the laws of not being able to hurt a Cleon, then how was she able to bypass this when she snapped Dawns neck last season? Another amazing episode from the BEST series this year! 🙏
it’s because his DNA had been altered, meaning he wasn’t pure cleon the 1st and could therefore be harmed by her
@@jacob3872 but also means that the regular Cleons can be harmed once they deviate too far genetically. Maybe we will see that scene play out.
Demerzel serves Empire. Dawn had to have been such a threat as she watched the chaos of Day and Dusk fighting, so she took matters into her own hands for the good of Empire.
The genetic drift! he was the start of the clones no longer being "Cleon!" And none of them would realize she overcame the law because they had no memory of knowledge of it until present time Dusk
This Demerzel's past revealed was astounding. Terminus destruction was completely unsuspected. But the most heartbreaking part happened when Cleon mercilessly ordered Bel Riose to destroy the planet while his husband was on the surface. Riose's teary goodbyes were devastating. Cleon is a monster. Tellem being defeated and beaten was soooo satisfying. Hari telling Gaal he never liked that woman was pure gold. This week will be so long waiting for the next episode and to find if Hari tricked Cleon's mind and how Hari survived.
i believe Glaywin's death was just to add more tension as they could clearly sent a craft or something to get him. And I loved how poly spent his last moments still kneeling and praying.
yea its like 'hey we can't go get my 2nd in command and husband? we really need to blow it up this SECOND??' Day is such a dick but I think he still feels burned from Demerzel
agreed and I'm sure this Dawn would have liked to keep the Invictus for personal use (especially after seeing Hobor's Whisper Ship in action).
@@ClydeFog yeah he is a soldier in their army why would they just abandon him. Its just stupid
This season has been amazing. Probably the first show that’s better than the books.
She-Hulk? lol
@@joso7228 top notch show right there lol.
Don't get me wrong - I love the show - but one flaw I found in the books was that the Foundation only took things so far before The Mule took over the conquering of the Galaxy (and then they sort of took over from him).
And here in the Series there is even less of the Foundation's story. Salvor as Warden in S1, then Poly and Constant doing some converting in S2, and Hobor doing a small part of what is covered in the books. Obviously we all love Dawn-Day-Dusk and the Gaal-Salvor-Hari adventures but it would be good to see more of the actual Foundation doing their Thing across the Galaxy.
The ending scene was perfect, day was already a psycho but those last few seconds genuinely birthed an incredible TV villain
Just wanted to say that I am waiting for your videos the same way I am waiting for the actual Foundation episodes. That's got to count for something. Thanks Pete!
Pete Peppers, IMHO it's *GREAT* that the "big RUclipsr channels" like New Rockstars or Heavy Spoilers don't cover Foundation on Apple TV at all. It's a great series that's gotten better and I hope that they continue letting channels like yours do the great reviews we've seen so far this year, and stay in their MCU/Star Wars "swim lanes". :)
I do wish that you and Quinn from Quinns' Ideas channel would do a crossover episode - his love of Foundation runs *DEEP* like yours. It seems like he is not doing reviews for this season of Foundation though...
Thanks again!
There have been moments in the episode where I hoped Demerzel would give Brother Day the Brother Dawn treatment from last season.
I half expected for Bel to activate the castling device after giving the order. RIP Glawen.
I was looking for this comment! I figured the necklace bel gave glawen before the battle had the little piece and expected him to put the bracelet on Day to switch their places.
Did no one else notice that the Invictus jump drive was spinning very fast as it hit the planet? Also, at the very end you see the explosion getting sucked in. I'm guessing the Invictus jumped to Trantor.
I was looking forward for a Demerzel-centered episode as she's the most intriguing character for me and I gotta say, it didn't disappoint. Excellent excellent acting from Laura. So subtle and nuanced. Bravo!
Thank you for those recaps!
I am impressed by your ability to keep the story's different strands together and convey them in such an accessible way.
thanks so much!
this episode brought me to tears. Glawen and Bel Riose of course
You know, deep down I knew Day was going to delete Glawen somehow so he could draw more loyalty from Bel Riose. That ending was just sooo tragic!
Selmac and his husband... Brother Constant's fathers??
Gone or protected inside the Vault.
@@DrMJTSilly me, I thought the guy with the mustache was her older brother and her mom must be Thespin because they both have purple eyes.
Sef and Paeta. Poly. The pain Constance felt knowing her parents were gone. Most of all Demerzel. Christ this story is so painful.
I'm not as emotionally attuned to their story, it's all frivolous time wasting to me between the robot and space ship stuff
This ep was one of the best sci fi eps I have ever had the pleasure of watching. Maybe, the best. How can that be possible. We need a PP video analyzing my thoughts! Amazing episode!!
Been waiting for this. Just wanna say one thing. Q: "How often do we choose this?" A: "You always do."
Brother Day wants change and peace, DEMERZEL through his love tries to give him more humanity. But his rage for revenge against Hari Seldon knows no bounds.
Brother Day wants power and to win more than any single thing in the universe, that's his motivation, to outsmart Seldon and PsychoHistory, but he's not mentally or emotionally capable, so he reverts to his genetic programming and reveling in, what I believe to be, a very short lived scorched earth policy
Well their going to be a reckoning. Just remember we know that the Robots survived the Robot wars. Demerzel is one, the Kali is the other. Hari Seldon is now a Robot A.I. and the Prime Radiant has a Robot A.I. within it.
Yes, because: "The God's made wine (decanted yet another Cleo-ne) for those whom can't afford revenge"
I have wayyyyyy more questions now then answers after this episode. For starters, who created her and what exactly makes her so unique/special? What was her original purpose, and beyond having the freedom to do what she wants, what does she actually want? What exactly would she do if she had the freedom she desperately desires. 2 seasons and we haven't even scratched the surface of who her character is. They still haven't answered the question about her "decentralized" consciousness and how that works. Especially with the reveal that her programming/implanted chip prevents her from transferring said consciousness. If i didn't know any better, that sounds like a bit of a plot hole given what little i know about decentralization.
good question! maybe her mind is decentralized but the programming prevents her to change appearances, meaning she’ll have to remain Dermezel. And about her origin, on the podcast David told they have a flashback about it and if the series goes long enough we’ll see it.
Perhaps you need to read the I, Robot series.
I wonder who has the broadcasting rights for those (hopefully not Will Smith)?
Weeellll..... there's what the books say about who built her/him and there's what the series has to say about about it. For finding out who built the robot -- and why -- read 'Caves of Steel' (quite dated, but the story serves as an introduction to all that follows including Foundation). It's a quick read, and is the base for everything that happens to - or deeds done by - this character. I don't think I can really spoil anything, as the series has gone off on it's own tangent, but still, the series has been known to throw sharp turns back to certain story threads and making complicated switchbacks to keep a theme going (?)and I think this is going to have to be one of them, if only because the ending would have to be rewritten (which would be the penultimate switch). I don't think Demerzel's story as it stands is finished - I think there will be a twist or two or three....or five.....At any rate, I hope it will somehow veer back to where it belong so it can end as the books do -- it's what made the books so satisficing.
Let me try to work around some of your questions: In the little book 'Caves of Steel,' the original purpose of the robot R Daneel/Demerzel was to "blend in" to human crowds on Earth to get a sense of whether or not Earthers would be willing to migrate off of Earth. Because Earthers hated robots, the robot had to look like a human, hence the creation of a humaniform robot (created by 2 scientists form another planet called Arura who were working on Earth at the time). So yes the series was correct -- the robot was built on Earth and yes, the robot is 18,000 years old. That purpose was abruptly changed, however, due to a murder. The robot was then reprogramed with a strong pull towards justice, and he is matched up with a human detective to solve the murder. That in a nutshell, is the creation story. Next....
The robot's name in the books is actually R Daneel Olivaw , the R designating Daneel as a robot. The fact that he was a humaniform robot made him special and indeed, a very unique, one of a kind robot. - all others looked like mechanical robots -- think C3PO from Starwars, which itself paid homage to one of the major robots characters in Asimov's books. Several things over the course of the books made R Daneel even more unique: he came to act more like a person than a robot, and at one point, he gains the ability to "touch" human minds to strengthen an idea to move the human to a desired action (read 'Robots of Dawn' for this development). Finally, and most importantly he reprograms himself with the zeroth law (or 4th law as some people refer to it). This changes his entire dynamic. While he had "human owners", with the application of the zeroth law, he was freed of serving individual people. As Demerzel said in the series, she was built on Earth, but her ownership became complicated - she ended up with no owner.
Freedom: no robot ever has complete freedom, at least as the books go. The kind of lost freedom Demerzel has is something entirely different in the series - it is literal, not related to the three laws of robotics at all. So yes -- I agree with you -- it is a plot hole, which I assume will be addressed - or not (some plotlines seem to just disappear... ). Robots in Asimov's worlds are strictly locked into the 3 laws of robotics. They serve humans - always. Except for R Daneel, who with the application of the zeroth law, was able to change his programing. He served no single person, but rather, all of humanity. He was regarded as a renegade, and there was a price on his head, but was always one step ahead of those who hunted him. He went about creating thousands of zeroth/Fourth law robots to help him with his work. This sparked the Robot Wars - a war between the 3 law and 4 law robots. The wars ended in a draw, and somewhere in it all it is mentioned that the wars were so carefully fought that humans didn't even know it was happening (a robot may not harm a human). So I don't know where the series is going with Demerzel's punishment as a result of the wars. Maybe it was just used as a device to get her to a punishment in that vault.
What the character actually wants: What the character in the books wants is to stop existing -- 20,000 leaves any one - or thing - awfully tired. Precisely why he has not been able to stop is the breadth of 7 books. Again, it is the ending that makes the entire book series so satisfying -- it truly is what R Daneel wants. What the series does with this .... who can say...... I think there will be lot of swerving around to keep people guessing. I hope that the series will land on the ending that the books offer. I guess we will just have to wait and see.....
@@joso7228 Your hopes are well grounded -- Will Smith does NOT have the rights to the I Robot series - 20th Century Fox does. They sit on it very tightly. It's why Goyer can't use the name 'Daneel', as it would be a licensing infringement. Goyer has said that he has received permission to use "Daneel", but who knows? They've supposedly had someone writing scripts, but nothing has come of it. Goyer has now said that he would willing to take on the Elijah Baley /Daneel books , as 20th Century has loved what he has done with Foundation. I'm not a fan of Goyer' s work, so I step aside on conversations about his navigation those books.
@@michaellerner528 I appreciate you taking the time to drop that write-up. It's definitely informative. I haven't read the books, and I probably wasn't because I've really liked the show thus far, but I think I'm doing myself a disservice by not reading them. From what you wrote, seems like I'm seriously missing out on a lot. Any particular order I should start from?
this episode was WILD. Easily the best of the series to date.
I have been reading Foundation for 50 years. I am also thoroughly enjoying this adaptation. Well done.
I agree- this was my favourite episode so far. It felt like a climatic last episode with so much happening. I wonder if the actual finale next week can top it.
I think that in the next episode Demerzel (Daneel Ollivaw) is going to take control after studying the Prime Radiant and seeing its truth. She’ll wake a new Dawn (he’s going off with Sareth), Day (she already told him that he’ll need to go), and Dusk (he found her prison and her secrets), consolidating her power and converting to believing in the Foundation.
This was one episode where blinking was not allowed. Loved Demerezel story or Cleon's perspective of it, she's fascinating.
Reborn Harry might be like Demerezel, again I'm not a book reader so I just start theorizing 😅.
I'm truly gonna miss this show, when Ido they start shooting for next season??
Now that's what i'm talking about this....this episode was epic... large battle scenes, drama, tears, fears, edge of seat and the look on Day as did his evil deed... unreal man
Brother Dawn did such a brilliant Lee Pace!
Loved his more austere Cleon I version
i can not belive that ending. is a blast! i am still seeing the last part 3 times again
Wow what a great episode of a fantastic series. When Hari was talking to Demerzel with Day just kind of there for the ride felt like some sort of justice.
They should hire you to do an aftershow for Foundation!
I thought the "living" Harri was a Demerzel-type robot from the beginning of his getting a body. His return has only helped reinforce that thought. I'm not sure what else he could be, honestly. Oh, and Demerzel's burn to Cleon the 17th was epic. Losing the first Foundation is a little confusing, especially as the second one has yet to start, but I am enjoying this story, and I hope they can keep up the excellent writing for the third season. I suspect there will be one, even if delayed by the various strikes happening.
or it could just be bad writing - they gave him a body so Tellem could mind-control him, then his return is the hologram embedded in their spaceship.
No no I think the second foundation might as well be the mentalics…
Its looking more and more that the 2nd Foundation will just be a continuation of the first imo
@@joso7228 I don't think the writing is bad. They are obviously using elements from all the books, as opposed to the somewhat segmented stories of the books. I was expecting some features from the books to have the same timeline in the show, even with the changes, but I'm not personally bothered by the changes. I'm just a bit confused as to what those changes will bring. Personally, I think putting the books on screen would have been boring. They are good as books but would not have made a good show if someone had directly translated them into a show. I'm pleased with their version of the story, yet I don't know where they go from here.
@@jportega9404 Maybe. Only time/more seasons will tell.
Kalle is totally a robot who invented psychohistory and protecting it through Hari. So Hari’s consciousness is transferred into a similar robot body.
Yes, wasn't there a thing when they found "the new Hari" on the giant hand where it was said "he's not registering as life sign" but because of the rushed circumstances (under attack by mining machines), they just grabbed him and moved on? Everything on that old mining planet speaks of AI's and robots under their own control and manipulating circumstances?
@@stevenjones6780I thought they said he did register as a life sign, which is how they found him on the statue.
@@nav579 Yup, I went back and watched it. Oh how they kill characters off several times in these modern shows!
@@stevenjones6780 so that brings up an interesting question. If he is suddenly in a live body, given to him by this mysterious person named Kalle…
Who has the resources to clone a body like that?
Also, Kalle is apparently someone Gaal knew from long ago. And on that planet with the statue, Kalle did not register as a life form. To me, this implies she is a robot.
The connections with the empire’s capabilities are very interesting to me..
@@nav579Gaal never “knew” Kalle, but she read The 9th Proof of Folding which she used to solve Abraxas & thus leave Synnax to meet Hari.
The girl that plays Salvor Hardin is starting to grow on me. She's doing a solid job this season. Didn't know she was British tho.
She is great. All the performances. Obviously Day's and Hari's actors steal the show. But Salvor is great. Gaal is a bit too one sided. She is not evolving much.
Was waiting the whole day
The heck you were. EYE was waiting the whole day.
This episode blew my mind
One of the best episodes i have ever seen in my life.
Finally! An episode with ancient robots from earth. It was worth the wait. In a perfect galaxy this would be a story about R. Daneel and perhaps someday that story will get told.
I thought she was going to say the name when she shared her history in the other form
I think that was deliberate. She danced around saying the name in a way that everyone who wanted to hear it thought it was coming at any second.
There was sooo much to unpack in this episode I was so glad to see your commentary up to know the episode was up. After I watched it I knew I was going to need your commentary!
I think it's worth mentioning that since everything happening with Gaal/Salvor/Hari/Tellum is happening significantly before the events in the final scene where Terminus is destroyed. At the time where that's happening who knows where the three of them are by that point! Idk why I just see it as being significant that there is such a delay between the two seemingly concurrent storylines.
HOLY POLY!!!
I just saw the episode and I am in complete ecstasy!!!
Book purists, be damned! This is the BEST space sci-fi on TV since the good ol' days of Farscape and Firefly. And its not a coincidence that Foundation completes the tri"F"ecta!
This is one of the very few times that I finished the episode and immediately watched again!
Every sequence is a masterpiece!
Demerzel's story, Poly's speech, Seldon and Day, the space battle, the fvcking SPACE BATTLE! the Invictus crashing into Terminus! And to spire my feelings completely out of control, Bel's ship is called 'Destiny' (i have over 3000hrs and counting logged into Destiny 2 the game) Gaal's part still meh tho.
Pure sci-fi orgasm!
Davis S. Goyer: you Sir, are a fvcking genius!!!
WOW.....just WOW! 10/10
I love what you just said!!! Spot on my friend! I think the actor playing Poly deserves all the accolades and some Emmy love too! Thx for your insightful comments! 👏👏👏👏
I couldn't agree more! The books and Asimov must be honoured as the original inspiration and the ground breaking saga they present, but the show has taken that and turned it into the greatest science fiction I have ever seen.
The technology, characters, plot, scale, intersecting arcs, themes, and the expanse and ambition of the empire and foundation FAR exceeded anything that we ever saw in the likes of Star Trek and Star Wars, which now honestly appear silly in comparison.
And then we have absolute mastery on the technical side too, with the visual effects, the music, the costumes, the cinematography, heck even the intro!
We of course have to acknowledge the master-class acting too, Jarred Harris and Laura Birn perfectly execute every scene, and then the brothers of course, Lee, Cassian and Terrence's ability to portray so many different Day, Dawn and Dusk (and Darkness and Cleon I) respectively, all appearing unique.
This show truly is the most polished piece of science fiction, ticks all the boxes!
How does Hari know Demerzel is a robot?
He can probably run scans in the vault
I've been waiting for the upload all morning since watching the episode. Just... incredible.
Another great episode. After a not-so-great start, this season is turning into a spectacular one. Looking forward to next week. Great show.
The BESSST tv series show everrrrrrrr !!!! Amazing actors!!!Cast, script, dialogue, special effects, costumes, witty, suspense, pure brilliance!!!! ❤❤.. i love everything about this series., I hope we’ll see a continuous seasons ❤
Demerzel: "This isn't freedom." As a black person of West African descent whose ancestors were subjected to slavery, colonialism and presently neocolonialism, i felt that line differently than most probably.
Perfect performance by Laura Birn. Perfect series thus far.
😢 your word poke my heart
9:19 I love that look of disgust that Dusk gives Cleon, although I knew he and Eve were screwed. Why else would Cleon spill all the beans?
I really like this Dusk, and his back story suggests that he was a more or less benevolent Day, even falling in love with a concubine, Eve, when most Cleons wouldn't give them a second thought after the act. Also he's the one who took the lead on investigating Day's memory tampering machinations.
Hmmm, Dusk and Eve, that's a nice little wordplay, they belong together you might say?
It was already said in season 1 that Cleon 1’s DNA was altered by that insurgent group that kidnapped Dawn. Demerzel didn’t do it and couldn’t because that would harm empire.
As a book reader, I am just really confused about Terminus being gone. This is far far fetch theory. We know the mentalics story is happening a bit before the crisis. Is it possible for mentalics to be in the scene and work together to make believe that the terminus is destroyed?