“Managers don’t have as big an input as the media want you to believe” gerrard was close to taking Villa down, emery comes in and within 18 month they’re playing champions league football that’s no coincidence.
@@austinreynolds5781 are you aware of the size of the gulf between the scottish and english prems? i think you are and i think you are aware that your question makes you look stupid
Missing out on the operative "MAJORITY of managers" there. Now, I don't care if you're right or wrong but you're arguing partial points to fit your point of view.
@@harrisonfitzgerald7147 no but that’s what he’s saying, each job comes at different times and different variables. Personally I believe we have to break a cycle that will continue regardless weather he’s the right man or not?
“2 games to save his job” Is just so stupid to me. I’m personally, reluctantly of the opinion he should go but the 2 games thing is dumb on both sides. 2 games tell us nothing. It’s such a small sample size. We could literally win both games 10-0 and then go on to lose the next 8 games in a row. Either stand by what you think and sack him or give him until Christmas to try and turn it around.
but if it's really bad, then we cannot keep him i do think it takes around 10~13 games to judge whether or not he's it or not in the short~medium term if he can turn things around by mid november, he gets more grace period but after losing like that to liverpool and spurs, he's on thin ice
Great comment. I think Ineos will make up their minds in say the next 10 games but give him till either Christmas, end of the season or till top 4 is mathematically out before they pull the trigger. 2 games tells you nothing. Great comment
Ste I think you are a bit too lenient when it comes to his faults and too generous when it comes to the "progress" we made vs. last season. Our best performances came against a relegation side and a league one side. We had one good half against Palace. ETH moaned about how injuries were the sole reason for how shit it was last season yet even with a near-full squad its still shit. Against Spurs and the scousers our tactical setup was dismantled with ease, thats his fault. He didnt tell Maino/Casemiro to lose the ball but he certainly didnt tell instruct them or others on how to deal with an intense press. Also, while I agree that none of the managers we had are bad managers, surely you agree that none of them are great either. Having a great manager would bring about a significant improvement to any team. For example, City won (cheated) titles before Pep but with Pep they dominated and won 6/7.
It took another great manager (Klopp) to stop them doing 7/7. Question is, is there a "great" manager that is attainable? Tuchel/Nagelsmann might not be great but would improve on ETH.
He was the same with Ole, swearing at the Outers, and he was wrong then and wrong now. The Glazers must be relieved because Porky here, Fakebridge, Sam.... blamed them for everything.
@@norman5340 dude was even insulting and blocking ten Hag outers in his Livestream chat 3 weeks ago and his fellow haggists were cheering such fascist behavior 😂
It's to save face, because he was always pro ETH and doesn't want to admit he got it wrong, so he's just doubling down and just hoping for a miracle and we turn in to prime Real Madrid overnight.
Ste understands football and fine margins. Most plastics think everyone below the top 4 are rubbish and anyone outside elite managers are pants, and the only reason they as fans are not proving how rubbish most managers and professional footballers are is because of their love of pies. The reality is, it's fine margins at the top level. Even semi pro players would make the most critical fans look like little girls on the pitch. Against pros, from league 2 to the prem, would make critical fans look like a disabled kid won a competition. Plastics need to learn to manage their emotions and not outsource their emotional wellbeing onto their football team.
What makes me sick is how the scousers have gone from Klopp to Slot without missing a beat yet here we are 10 years and half a doz managers later and we STILL haven't found the right man, STILL a mid table team
Whether we hate it or not, as a fact Klopp was one of the best managers in the past decade, and their owners had marginally better sense in football operations, hence they had good momentum coming into this season. Ours? We don't even know where to begin. It will take years to completely cleanse the stinks that the previous manager left behind.
Its easy to replace klopp he was a flash in the pan for 3 seasons at dortmund and 2 decent years at bin dippers now remember we'd to replace a lot more than that's 27 years to be exact.
It took Klopp 4 years to win something with Liverpool. It took time to build a proper squad that fit to the way he wanted to play. The problem at United is we’ve had different managers with different ideas on how we should play, so we have a very mixed bag of players with different playing profiles. Liverpools transition to Slot seems smooth because his style and philosophy is very similar to Klopps.
And personally I wanted Ole out but I'd take his era over EtH easily. Under Ole it seemed like we just needed to go that 1 step up whereas with EtH it feels like we're 5/6 steps behind
Honestly think the manager's job at United is impossible until the club manages the media circus better. It creates silly amounts of pressure on manager, players and staff
I believe that certainly influences things and the "fans" contribute to this as well. If the fans just ignore the media and don't join in on the crusade against our own players and managers that alone would solve a lot of issues. And obviously I'm not talking about all our fans, but there are a lot of them who'd rather be "proven right" than see the team succeed.
We've backed Ten Hag, a huge majority of fans are tired of chop & changing managers. But this is unacceptable two consecutive 0-3 defeats @ Old Trafford & we still trying to justify Ten Hag keeping his job is nonsense 🤔 when did our standard's stoop so low.
What standards? If a petulant boy like Bruno is the best option as captain then you know there are no standards. There are no leaders on the pitch. If Rashford is the biggest star produced by your academy in the last years or decade then you know there are no standards. You're just a midtable team with overhyped and overpaid players that can't even play possession based football. Midtable counter football is the best you can. And if your silly club doesn't overpay, none of them want to come and waste their career. MU is a circus club and you're one of its many 🤡s
7-0 defeat vs Liverpool. 3-0 defeat vs Liverpool. 6-3 defeat vs Manchester City. 3-0 defeat vs Manchester City. 3-0 defeat vs Tottenham. 2-0 defeat vs Tottenham. 4-0 defeat vs Brentford. 3-0 defeat vs Sevilla. 3-0 defeat vs Bournemouth. 3-0 defeat vs Newcastle United. 4-0 defeat vs Crystal Palace. And this is not even 50% of everything, crazy how Ten Hag has survived so long when you think about it.
I suspected this Ste guy was a spoofer a long time ago. Talks all sorts of 'modern tactics' guff but can't spot a woeful manager when it's staring him in the face for two years.
I reckon he is just married to his opinion and can't accept when he is wrong. Same with ole. Same with Ralph. He just waits till the wheels fall off then jumps on with the new one and how he's going to turn the club around
Mate, I think that's what supporting a club is about. You support the manager. You can think the manager is shit, but we want United to do well. It doesn't matter who the manager is or who the players are when/if United wins the league. What matters is the name manchester united is on the pl trophy.
@@BillyJacobs94 let's be real, can we define any player or manager at manchester united. We've had plenty of managers post Fergie, and it's always the same thing after three years. When ten Haag was appointed amongst all the protests I told myself, glazers out before we get rid of another manager. Changing the manager is fine, but it won't change anything. Not changing the manager might.
@@aranyachakravorty4262 thing is glazers aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Also just look at arsenal,they hated their owners but their owners are the same and they found the right man and structure. Stop clinging to the glazers as an excuse for everything. Do you mean to tell me that no one on earth can do a better job than this manager now?
Keeping ten hag is like staying in a toxic relationship, you know it’s bad, you know it isn’t going to improve. Then later down the line when it is over you’ll wish it ended sooner.
I think post Fergie and under the glazers United lost its identity as a football club. I go back to Fergie’s flip chart Pace, Power, Penetration and unpredictability. That was his interpretation of the United way. The wider worry for me is, what is the vision for the future under Ineos and does it fit with the clubs identity? What I want is a modern interpretation of the United way and not a pale imitation of city. Because if you only copy others you will always be one step behind. So although I don’t think we should sack ten hag immediately, long term I’m not convinced he’s a good fit for us.
It's simple. Example: It may not be your fault your child is stupid and stuck their head through railings, but it is your responsibility as a parent to fix. Another example: it may not be your fault things are not going well in your life because... Life happens. But it is your responsibility. Fault and responsibility can be their own individual entities.
Can’t agree that results aren’t his fault. The results have come because of the tactics and team selections that he’s made. That is directly his fault. Also, I’d disagree that Yoro (not needed) Ugarte (looks like he’s never kicked a ball before) and Zirkzee (lost sheep on a pitch) are all poor signings
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣wow! Each time Ten Hag sinks hs fanbois come upmwith new waffle to support him. last season was he needs to work under the new structure = with Ten Hag himslef saying with a full squad he can beat anyone now he has a full squad under the strucutre like they said and hes bad like real bad now its there no candidates🤣
If the main reason you're sticking with him is because there's no one else - not because he's the right person, or his philosophy or personality etc - but because there's no one else, then you're doomed from the beginning.
Ste, if you back the current manager because there's no one else out there, you aren't really backing the manager. That is what Man Utd have done this summer. If one were to talk that way about a girlfriend/wife, there's no way it ends well.
@@lew115 it is a very good comparison. people stay in unhealthy relationships all the time because they can't imagine things could be better with someone else.
@@lew115 I think it's comparable because at the end of the day, a football manager works in the context of relationships. If you get someone not because he's the right one but because there's no one else - football manager, physicist, carpenter, wife - you are doomed from the start. Ten Hag is surely doomed this season.
@@lew115it is actually a good comparison. It is a matter of trust. When there is evidently no trust, the relationship is over. It will fall apart on the first chance. The first chance showed up already in September. It could not have worked otherwise. Farewell ETH.
You are wrong Ste! Managers DO have an impact, both short term, aka new manager bounce and long term! Villa are the prime example but look at Chelsea, 50 new players are playing in a system, “lads it’s just Tottenham” are playing the certain way.
Are you serious?? Changing the manager doesn’t work??? So with that logic chelsea should have just stayed with lampard and changed players? Damn maybe saeed was right.. 🚶🏾♂️
Sorry how many Managers have Chelsea gone through over like the last 10 years? The point is that just by changing the manager doesn't always give you guaranteed success straight away. It ain't hard hard to fathom.
The thing is by now I think we're all more than aware that EtH can't motivate his players and doesn't have the tactical knowledge/imagination to turn things around in game so really what's the point of keeping him if we want to be serious about competeting?
Tactics mean nothing if your players refuse to win their individual battles. Misplacing 5yard passes and being 2nd to every ball, no matter how good you, cannot guarantee you the victory
this guy loves the club access hes never going to tell the truth..fans need to stop listening to these people..this guys still sitting here saying everything will be fine 😂😂😂😂
The whole no better candidate available argument is so hard to believe. What I find puzzling is this - other teams change managers and they show progress consistently. Unai Emery literally saved relegation bound Aston Villa and brought them into top 4. Tomas Tuchel is literally out there and I know what people are going to say about him that he does not stick with the clubs longer. He has been at the clubs which are trigger happy to sack them. PSG - its all about results there and till recently it was about one man - Mbappe. Chelsea -the owner can sack manager because he did not like shirt manager was wearing… Bayern - they have their own reasons. You cannot deny the fact that one thing that Tuchel is good at is getting results. We do not know how he will do in a club with a proper structure… The constant complain about injuries - is it only United that get injuries??? Other teams also get affected by severe injuries but they find their way through it. So I am sorry I would rather prefer to see Ruud managing next two games and then if he is also part of the problem - bring a Tuchel in after international break.
Ste, I really like, I don't comment on ur videos but I watch almost every single one of them. And this time I totally disagree. Ten hag is out of his depth. Look at Chelsea, look at Brighton, look at Aston villa. All our players have lost value in the past 2 to 3 years. Please we need Ten hag out. Please.
Cool, you sack him. Whats next ? Sacking a manager and not having a plan for after you have sacked him is worse than keeping him in the job. We seen this with Ole, we sacked him and had no plan to move forward just vibe it till the end of the season. ETH has a good first season (anyone that tries to downplay it leave you're not apart of this conversation and are just whining for the sake of it). Last season, 8th place finish horrendous that came with an unprecedented FA cup win and the most amount of injuries united have had in a season EVER. Bloody hard to bed a style of play when you're chopping and changing the squad every week. We have been down this road before of sacking managers and calling off the season before it's even started.
Look at Chelsea, Brighton and Aston Villa? How many trophies have they won in the last two seasons? There is a world of difference between managing those clubs and managing Utd. It took Ferguson 6 years to win his first league title.
agreed they are great players on their day but you have to do what's right for the team. I love bruno but neither of them are captain material. Their lack of discipline let them both down
I think it's one bad half we played and everyone is ready to sack ten hag . We have shown some improvement in other games . I think ten hag and Errickson made a mistake and pissed off the dressing room by saying FC twenty wanted it more . If these over sensitive players can get over that , then ETH should be safe
I think his time is up honestly, without that fa cup win he would have been gone in the summer. Ineos need to bring in their own guy. I was willing to put last season down to injuries, but weve started excactly the same. Continually losing to our rivals in such humiliating ways is unacceptable
I'm so confused by the performance. We know United are better than this. I think I'll just put this here and leave it: Young players breaking in often do not wont for quality. The reason they made it is because they have the quality. The sticking point is almost always the consistency, and as players age and gain experience, so comes the consistency. There are exceptions, of course, but those are exceptions; "generational talents" who just get it, the most recent probably being Bellingham. I see a lot of that with this Ten Hag squad. We know they're good; we've seen it. They can really play, and aside from scoring, they're a ready-made article. So it's about the consistency, then, and that will only come with time. While there are some players at United who are older, the squad itself is actually quite young, and there are a lot of members who are quite new (key players, even). It's not an excuse; it's how things are. I'm saying, objectively, United were dogshit yesterday. It's just, for me, if consistency is lacking, making more, drastic changes, like a manager, isn't going to help that situation. Remaining largely static and creating a solid base on top of a solid management structure (which has only been around since... July-ish, I think?) after a decade+ of absolute turmoil and mismanagement is the way to go. All United need right now is a calm hand: that's it. Uprooting everything won't change this. I'm probably in the minority now, and I get that. Not looking to get a bunch of fire for this comment. It was a shit match and a shit day and a shit morning after. I just don't see how sacking Erik will lead to better results outside of maybe (maybe) the immediate short term. GGMU Supporter.
This squad is entirely better than Spurdls, and even if we weren't, based on talent alone, not set up are good enough for atleast a draw. That performance was a pwereonal eff you to ten Hag by the players. Something has happened behind the scenes
Great comment. But is ten Hag the person who will provide this calm hand (head)? Even the owners retained him because they couldn't find an alternative. That isn't a vote of confidence, the way I see it. The players also know that. Ten Hag already lost even before the season began. It's a mess and that begins from the top.
@coconutzmilk it's man utd content, fool. I dontvwatch eastenders. I watch Manchester United stuff whether I agree or not. I'm not an agreeing little minion like u
Beautifully put into context Ste. He isn't a bad manager. We have been in trouble since the Glazer's took over. SAF managed to disguise the mess for a few years. Ineos is a long term project, they looked for a replacement and couldn't find anyone better than Erik. People are so fast to forget the first 60 minutes against Palace when everyone was raving about the style of play. It isn't a switch. It will take time before the players do that for 90 minutes in every game.
You make the point well about managers and the associated psychology/performance/results etc. Yesterday though Ten Hag seemed to offer zero to the players in terms of plan b. He looked on in confusion, like me and 70,000 spectators. Ten Hag should have been trying to put out fires all over the pitch. There was nothing mate. Exactly why the players were so passive, the crowd was so quiet and the global audience were sat in silence. Ten Hag looked like he just wants paying off. Is anyone telling me these players are being coached? Collectively they were a shambles because individually each man had no clue even where he should be standing. Im actually shocked he's still there. He's got to go Ste
Porto on the road? Strike two. A lot depends on how Villa does against Bayern Wednesday. If they lose, between that and the draw to Ipswich, they'll be loaded for bear come Sunday.
Steve - there’s 2 excellent candidates. 1. As Interim - RvN with Roy Keane as a coach (this would have worked with Ole too). Keane would sort out the mentality & energy problem. 2. Permanent- buy Diego Simione out of his contract at Athletico. Tactical, tough, demanding, develops youth, regularly beats teams with twice his resources - like SAF, he gets more out of his team than the sum of its parts.
I'm in the same brackets. I don't know what to say or what the perfect solution is. I'm just waiting for whatever decisions are gonna come from the owners.
@@directorme6669 Same here mate. Would i be surprised if he goes ? No. Do i want him to go ? Not really but he's making it difficult to back him with some of his decisions.
Mate talking bollocks again, sorry! These are ETH players so the whole recruitment thing shows it comes back to the manager he chose the players. We are terrible at every metric available - choose anyone you want I guarantee we are not good at it. That's on the manager. We KEEP missing chances this is not new....
These players fall in one of three categories, 1- has potential but not top class at the moment 2- decent competent players but not elite 3- shit Regardless of the manager that combination does not create a team that dominates anything, Just because the board changed a few months doesn't mean that we'll suddenly be amazing, Berrada is right, aim for 2/3 years to make a fair judgement, This happened last season and we won a trophy by May, PATIENCE PATIENCE PATIENCE for the love of God
We had 2 objectives (surely) in the summer. 1) get rid of deadwood 2)bring in players who improve the squad We managed to get “some” deadwood And we did bring in some players who have improved us. We now need to bring in creativity and goals
But what about the xG? you called us all idiots for not seeing all the supposed improvement that you saw. you said it showed it was all about to come good. But it didn't. The supposed "haters" were right. we are shit. manager is shit. wake up. you were wrong.
@@lew115 no there wasn't. it was the same old shit you just couldn't see it. that's why the guy's saying it were crying about metrics rather than seeing what there is to be seen. you were all screaming that the metrics showed we were coming good. and we ain't. your metrics were shit and you don't know ball. just admit it and apologise to those of us who you slandered
@@BilboBaggins-tn6hn no, this is factually not true. All the metrics support it. No one is saying it's been fantastic, but it has provably been significantly better.
An opinion is still an opinion Ste. In all research the results can be directed to the outcome that you need to support your thesis. When it comes to player performance there are so many variables in which to quantify and present the rationale. It actually cannot be based on fact it will still be an opinion. And as reader of that book it will have had a natural bias that you have agreed with. So it’s still an opinion. Please don’t just write off the people that are saying ETH is not good enough. We have given him the allowances for Ronaldo, Greenwood et al as you asked for. But now is crunch time win, lose or draw. There has to be an improvement with no excuses. Ste they didn’t truly back him they just didn’t think there was a better option than him at that time who was available. Truly backing him would have been a new deal. Triggering the extension was a safety valve that may have burst. I actually hope he does win his next 100 games never mind the next 2. But him and his team need to show us something right now.
In his first two seasons at the club we’ve won two trophies and EtH got more transfers correct than he didn’t despite not trusting the recruitment structure at the time and despite the woeful performance of the dealings team. But ultimately we were plagued by the same issues that have cost every United manager their job post Fergie. But we won two trophies and despite beating us 3-0, no Tottenham fan can say that about any of their quality managers since 2008. Last season was hectic with ownership changes and injuries. Given what he’s been able to achieve during a turbulent time for Man Utd, EtH absolutely deserved a do-over. Clearly INEOS agreed there was no one available and better for the job anyway. This season we’ve had our first transfer window with INEOS, we’ve had improvements in our dealings, we’ve had improvements off the pitch, we’ve had improvements at Carrington and we’ve had improvements on the pitch. But it’s still a project. Let them cook.
I thought Neville made a great point about Eriksen’s comment, if ETH can’t motivate ppl the X’s & O’s are for nothing. You can bullshit the fans but you can’t bullshit the players
I've never heard of a manager having to motivate Cristiano Ronaldo. Why do players need to be motivated? Do they not want silverware and medals and glory like every supporter does?
I'm 💯% behind the manager and the team. We're essentially playing with a new back four, plus midfield, that need time to gel after the horrendous injury disruption of last season. We need to support the team and trust things will change, which they will.
You’ve nailed it, responsibly sits with the manager regardless of whether he is to blame or not and he knows it. We need inspirational leadership and it won’t come from ETH but I don’t know who can
We desperately need Højlund back, I know he’s yet to prove he can get 20+ goals in the league but the fact is he’s an out and out No9 but he’ll need service. We’ve been playing without a No9 this season, Zirlzee is not a striker, he’s said that himself and that’s fine, he links up play so well so I’m personally excited to see what he can do with someone actually playing in front of him. Next two games are huge but if we can play like we did in that first half against Palace and get Højlund scoring I actually think we’ll kick on and be fine but we desperately need Højlund up top imo.
Ste, I backed ten Hag through an absolute maelstrom last season. Whether I had wool over my eyes then or seriously believed he was the right one, it doesn’t matter now. I can’t ignore the evidence of my eyes on the basis of ‘he needs time’. Other managers didn’t need over half a billion and 2.5 years to get to a half-decent standard, and that’s all that’s being asked of him. Nobody expected a title challenge, but he can’t even consistently deliver top 4 worthy performances. The biggest issue with him is he DOES NOT know his best XI. It changes every single week. You can blame injuries, but he has every single player available apart from Shaw and he still can’t field something consistent. I don’t think he wanted Ugarte personally, and I don’t think he’s overly keen on Amad. The football is kamikaze and we have ZERO control across the pitch. We’re either trying to score as soon as we win the ball or we’re looking like conceding when we fail to get it back. You don’t need to be a coach of a lower league team to see it. The style of football he wants is not compatible with a 38 game Premier League, and only works across several months - and usually in a knockout format. To say that Porto and Villa are must win isn’t even a statement. Every game as Manchester United manager is a must win ffs. If he wins them both and then loses the game after, what was the point? Will it then be a ‘oh, he can’t lose the next game?’ Season is over in September.
Well said Ste. A bit of perspective is always needed, people seem to lean on United to make them feel better about themselves, maybe because we used to be so successful, and now that's not happening they're outraged and can't deal with it.
Yesterday was down to lack of effort and heart for most of it, resulting in continuous carelessness that spread through the team and eventually players looking lost with a lack of confidence, quality, leadership or communication. But this is something we've seen far too often under several disparate teams of coaching staff and managers over several years. Better players make better teams and results but not when there's basics missing in terms of effort.
United will struggle to get one point out of the next 2 fixtures. Are we wasting time with TH at this point? I imagine, and hope Ineos are doing the due diligence and preparing for his exit.
One of the reasons it is so frustrating and depressing is due to his first season. 3rd and 2 Cup finals with a team that needed "open heart surgery" set us on a path. Now it seems we peaked 2 years ago. This doesn't feel like a dip in form it feels like downward spiral. We had a very good summer transfer window and yet we are doing the same as last season with a huge amount of injuries. To blame "structure" is one thing but to not blame the manager is bizarre now. Could it be he's just not good enough? Could it be that he chooses the wrong team and sets up wrong? It's one thing to get beat, it's the way we get beat. We get obliterated by our "rivals" constantly
He steadfastly refuses to change the system to avoid defensive frailties- apart from FA cup final - and same errors keep being exposed. He keeps picking certain players irrespective of form and suitability. We need to stop giving the ball away - the biggest culprit - the guy who is never dropped or subbed. That is on ETH - he has had more time than many clubs would have given him. We are virtually out of a top 4 finish now….
The manager is the most influential person in the club in terms of results. Bringing Mbappe wouldn't fix this miss, but a Klopp would affect the team more
What ste is saying in the beginning is true. My friends and myself; all ETH out were discussing whether or not we would prefer United to lose to get ETH out. I simply cannot want United to lose.. but the fact that that is a discussion is so sad. Also; one thing my late dad told ne about Leeds then; if a manager cannot manage money; the team will have issues. And this is so true with Glazers and ETH. If ETH could not perform with money being £340m over budget over his tenure; he cant manage anything.
Dont want another manager... at least not this season....we are better than last season but still not good enough though...its just that bielsa man 2man...that doesn't work with lazy players...
There have been studies done on Manager influence, once the players are on the pitch. I think it came out at less than 5%, the study found (shock horror), the vast majority of on field decisions were down to the players, looking at some of ours, it becomes obvious why we are struggling.
I appreciate your commentary Howson, your fact based, pragmat approach is why I come back to your channel almost daily. The overcooked emotional commentary is NOT going to bring us back to winning trebles
Changing the manager doesn't work. It didn't work with Moyes, it didn't work with Van Gaal, it didn't work with Mourinho or Ole or Ragnick. Sacking every manager after two seasons because we are not back to Ferguson levels of success is pathetic. For those people saying "but this is unacceptable for Utd, we're the biggest club in the world", please go back and watch Mourinho's "what football heritage" press conference from several years ago. We are not entitled to success. It took Ferguson 6 years to win the league. If we're not going to show patient now, then when?
Everyone forgets that ETH has managed the club through the most turbulent time in recent history, all the off field issues are not his fault, but all of them affect the team and performances, it will take a while for the atmosphere and culture to change in the club.
Ronaldo his fault, Sancho his fault. Antony 70m flop, his fault, De Gea being treated like shit, his fault. It's his job to manage the big egos and sort out the team, these are his players and thry are playing shite
@MarkTimberlake 100%. I've backed Ten Hag but I think he lacks the ability to inspire..which is what Ferguson had in spades. We don't have to be technically perfect but the will to win is severely lacking
@@PirateRemy Do you think players on those wages need someone to inspire them? I get your point, but surely elite footballers should be able to inspire themselves? I think the real issue is they cannot cope with the pressure psychologically and emotionally and they need to bring in specialists to help the players with that.
@MarkTimberlake historically the best teams are inspired by a leader big personalities managers, captains, players ...that's just a fact. The wages have nothing to do with the human psyche, if anything it's detrimental.
Fully agree with your perspective / facts here Ste. ETH also feeling struggle of narrative set by pundits comments - in particular ex united. G Nev no longer commentating, it’s a total rant and it is only allowed because his affiliation with the club but unfortunately it sets a precedent for how others talk about us. I find it hard to believe any other commentator on any other game would get away with narrating like that - usually focus would be on how good the other team are playing. It plays a part in creating the mind set of the huge audience watching and adds to the scrutiny which can’t not feed back to the players and staff.
Honestly, thank you Ste. I fucking hate football fans sometimes. I'm one of them, but I'm so tired of this reactionary bullshit. I'm thankful that I can at least listen to someone measured who understands that you can both criticise and still want to give time to the manager/players to turn it around. It's a process, it takes years not weeks.
Ste,I’ll back him til the end,and I don’t know the answer to this either,but hand on heart to you think ETH has the stature and personality to take us where we need to go?
Pep at Luton would instil a fashion of play, a togetherness and a fear that if performances wain your position in the team is under serious threat. That may not win the premier league, as you say, but it’ll improve and inspire fans.
Yesterday was a massive off day, other than that - the start of the season has been kind of okay(somewhat right in the middle). I hope INEOS is sensible enough to give him some time around them i.e. the new management. Any business team would do that to a manager in any field. If they sack him, and it does not work out with the next one - the fans can turn on INEOS very quickly. Massive decision to make.
I won't change my opinion that Ten Hag is a good manager. But it's getting harder and harder to believe he can turn the performances and more importantly the confidence of the team around.
The manager found a good way of playing with Ericksen. And then ditched it yesterday. I like Ugarte but stsrting him for the first time in that game is crazy
Our players are good, I think the tactics are the problem. It's not just the current players who couldn't play his system, it's all the others from the last two seasons too. We have a good squad now but no matter which 11 he starts or which subs he makes, they can't play well for more than 20-30 mins. I think his tactics are naive and idealistic and don't work in the prem. I don't think the players are downing tools, I think they're losing belief, hope, confidence and motivation with regards to this project.
The structure at the club need to identify what the root cause of the issues with this squad and its performance is. If they determine that Ten Hag is the root cause then by all means remove him but the media and the INEOS process where they eventually kept him after looking at other managers has heaped loads of pressure on this manager and it wouldn't be a stretch that it has trickled down to the squad.
This weak mentality has corroded into our fanbase. He’s had three years and we are a fucking cup team. There is zero difference from his first day here to now. Actually we might be worse.
Yup, all about recruitment. 15 years, you can count the genuine successes on one hand. Antony (80m), Mount (60m), Hojlund (70m) is pretty much the death nail. Same outlay as, say, Olisie, Rice and Toney.
He could win and still go. It’s the performances that matter surely. I agree we have played much better this season and think over the course of the season it’ll even itself out. But right now…he looks on borrowed time and it’s not like there’s been a meaningful tweaks to the tactics between these performances which would suggest he’s rectifying problems. I want him to stay, but I understand why others don’t
Steve you are without doubt the most level headed honest Utd supporter when they are good you say it but when they are shit you say it keep it up mate .Great podcast ...I can't stand that prat Goldbridge he is going to have a stroke one day
What Ten Hag needs to be is more ruthless in player selection...He is selecting players week in week despite being extreamly poor...yes in some instance he might think he doesnt have options but he does... He doesnt have to be so rigid..but he chooses to be rigid and it might cost him his job if he continues the same...you would rather select younger players who are impresionable,hungry and energetic and deal with the media and fans on why you didnt select their favourite Star player...as the older players gets their stuff in order...but most know their position is cemented no matter what and they can give questionable performances and still make the team next time...
The only bright spot with man u right now its the academy, there is some serious potential there and im really hoping that next 2 -3 years we will atleast play better fotboll
Nobody wants to see managers getting the sack . But we need to have a new strategy where we are less committed and don’t sign massive contracts. We need to try different managers and be more ruthless until we get the right one . I think there are lots of options. We have to choose someone who is an excellent coach as well as a great team leader. We should not overthink . Ten Hag just to authoritarian without the tactics .
Yes the ‘Average’ manager might not make a difference which is why United hired Ten Haag as he was deemed an elite manager from his time at Ajax. Ajax’s drop off I believe supports that. I like Ten Haag but if your argument is that he’s an average manager than maybe he should go.
The one person that United has failed to obtain is an on-field leader. ala Gattuso, Ballack, Ramos, Puyol, Kompany, Vieira.....United hasn't had that man since Wazza and Ibrahimovic' Regardless of who stands on the touchline, there's no fear until you have to face an angry Roy Keane
I fully believe we're going to repeat this cycle for the forseeable future. Whatever manager/player comes in is going to get buried by the pressure. There is not a manager alive that can do this job or even wants to.
I agree with you on your outlook on football in the beginning. We watch football as a hobby, and there are much more stressful situations we go through in life. So why make your hobby another one that stresses you out. It's football lads. If this current manager isn't gonna work out, the club will move on and start again. IMO, should the board decide to move on to a new manger. See out the season with ETH and not make any short-sighted decisions on his successor.
I don't actually think them 2 games matter on the grand scheme of things. If they are looking at performances (which they are), they will keep on doing it. Arteta lost 8 on a bounce, still stayed in the job. And they played nowhere near as good as we do now. Xmas earliest real conversation. They didn't sack him after 4-0 at Selhurst while not backing him - why do it now?
I get the idea that a manager needs time and its really weird when people dont see that, but at what point is time afforded to a manager time wasted going in the wrong direction? Its been 2 years since and we're going on 3 and other than 2 cup trophies which are great achievements, we have not seen ANY real, tangible, consistent improvements in the league, against big opposition, in Europe, etc.... At some point you have to cut out the second chances and take the gamble on someone else when its a gamble to see where Erik takes us anyways....
It’s never as good or as bad as you think. The whole football department need to take responsibility. It’s not like it was in the old days when the manager basically controls everything. Now days you have systems which is clearly not been working for 10 years +. The department has only just been updated and it will take time to see the effects of it.
Ten hag cannot make a balanced team and the reason for that is that he tries to play with a midfield of one person or none (the rest being lightweight nr 10 creative people) but also press with so many people upfront that there is no midfield. When every team in the premierleague except spurs and liverpool play with three proper midfielders who can do the hard work and be creative. In addition he tried to place full pitch teams that are faster and move the ball much better. Probably the worst part is the team cannot pass the ball from midfield (and sometimes to midfield) - unless we are playing very weak, slow teams.
This is just based on Ratcliff's own words Ineos will not change the manager mid season. However Ten Hag will not be the manager next season. Their priority this season is the backroom staff and the organisation. Next year they will want to chose their own manager based on their own analysis of the clubs identity and style of play.
Someone has to loose in a game of football and sometimes it will be us. That’s life. What is unacceptable is the manner of the defeat. Caught cold at the start of each half, with a player running right through our team with the ball! Ridiculous, it was like watching a Sunday morning pub team play.
I think United are no longer the United of old. The identity is there but it's buried under 10 years of mismanagement. United are in a period of transition under ten Hag and the goal now is the build a squad that can consistently compete for the title and Europe. The CEO said the goal is to win the title by 2028. That's 4 years from now!! We have to be more patient. United will suffer for as long as it takes to get to the goal. We will suffer as fans witnessing this transition. It's part of the deal if we want to see results.
“Managers don’t have as big an input as the media want you to believe” gerrard was close to taking Villa down, emery comes in and within 18 month they’re playing champions league football that’s no coincidence.
But who was responsible for taking rangers back to the top?
@@austinreynolds5781 are you aware of the size of the gulf between the scottish and english prems? i think you are and i think you are aware that your question makes you look stupid
Missing out on the operative "MAJORITY of managers" there.
Now, I don't care if you're right or wrong but you're arguing partial points to fit your point of view.
@@austinreynolds5781 I didn’t mention rangers once? Did he do a good job at villa then I must have missed something
@@harrisonfitzgerald7147 no but that’s what he’s saying, each job comes at different times and different variables. Personally I believe we have to break a cycle that will continue regardless weather he’s the right man or not?
“2 games to save his job”
Is just so stupid to me. I’m personally, reluctantly of the opinion he should go but the 2 games thing is dumb on both sides.
2 games tell us nothing. It’s such a small sample size. We could literally win both games 10-0 and then go on to lose the next 8 games in a row.
Either stand by what you think and sack him or give him until Christmas to try and turn it around.
But he’s already hd about 80 games since we were CONSISTENTLY decent, or indeed consistently anything. Its about 82 games, not 2.
This is way too sensible and measured an opinion for the Internet to handle
Very true. They don't give a flying F about what media and fans think. They do their job.
but if it's really bad, then we cannot keep him
i do think it takes around 10~13 games to judge whether or not he's it or not in the short~medium term
if he can turn things around by mid november, he gets more grace period
but after losing like that to liverpool and spurs, he's on thin ice
Great comment. I think Ineos will make up their minds in say the next 10 games but give him till either Christmas, end of the season or till top 4 is mathematically out before they pull the trigger. 2 games tells you nothing. Great comment
Ste I think you are a bit too lenient when it comes to his faults and too generous when it comes to the "progress" we made vs. last season.
Our best performances came against a relegation side and a league one side. We had one good half against Palace. ETH moaned about how injuries were the sole reason for how shit it was last season yet even with a near-full squad its still shit. Against Spurs and the scousers our tactical setup was dismantled with ease, thats his fault. He didnt tell Maino/Casemiro to lose the ball but he certainly didnt tell instruct them or others on how to deal with an intense press. Also, while I agree that none of the managers we had are bad managers, surely you agree that none of them are great either. Having a great manager would bring about a significant improvement to any team. For example, City won (cheated) titles before Pep but with Pep they dominated and won 6/7.
It took another great manager (Klopp) to stop them doing 7/7. Question is, is there a "great" manager that is attainable? Tuchel/Nagelsmann might not be great but would improve on ETH.
He was the same with Ole, swearing at the Outers, and he was wrong then and wrong now. The Glazers must be relieved because Porky here, Fakebridge, Sam.... blamed them for everything.
@@norman5340 dude was even insulting and blocking ten Hag outers in his Livestream chat 3 weeks ago and his fellow haggists were cheering such fascist behavior 😂
It's to save face, because he was always pro ETH and doesn't want to admit he got it wrong, so he's just doubling down and just hoping for a miracle and we turn in to prime Real Madrid overnight.
Ste understands football and fine margins.
Most plastics think everyone below the top 4 are rubbish and anyone outside elite managers are pants, and the only reason they as fans are not proving how rubbish most managers and professional footballers are is because of their love of pies.
The reality is, it's fine margins at the top level. Even semi pro players would make the most critical fans look like little girls on the pitch. Against pros, from league 2 to the prem, would make critical fans look like a disabled kid won a competition.
Plastics need to learn to manage their emotions and not outsource their emotional wellbeing onto their football team.
What makes me sick is how the scousers have gone from Klopp to Slot without missing a beat yet here we are 10 years and half a doz managers later and we STILL haven't found the right man, STILL a mid table team
Whether we hate it or not, as a fact Klopp was one of the best managers in the past decade, and their owners had marginally better sense in football operations, hence they had good momentum coming into this season. Ours? We don't even know where to begin. It will take years to completely cleanse the stinks that the previous manager left behind.
Its easy to replace klopp he was a flash in the pan for 3 seasons at dortmund and 2 decent years at bin dippers now remember we'd to replace a lot more than that's 27 years to be exact.
Because they play for the badge.
Liverpool were very very lucky against wolves.
It took Klopp 4 years to win something with Liverpool. It took time to build a proper squad that fit to the way he wanted to play. The problem at United is we’ve had different managers with different ideas on how we should play, so we have a very mixed bag of players with different playing profiles. Liverpools transition to Slot seems smooth because his style and philosophy is very similar to Klopps.
And personally I wanted Ole out but I'd take his era over EtH easily. Under Ole it seemed like we just needed to go that 1 step up whereas with EtH it feels like we're 5/6 steps behind
Manchester United now being compared to Luton... what a time to be alive.
Honestly think the manager's job at United is impossible until the club manages the media circus better. It creates silly amounts of pressure on manager, players and staff
I believe that certainly influences things and the "fans" contribute to this as well.
If the fans just ignore the media and don't join in on the crusade against our own players and managers that alone would solve a lot of issues.
And obviously I'm not talking about all our fans, but there are a lot of them who'd rather be "proven right" than see the team succeed.
I give it until Fred and Amrabat tear us a new one in a few weeks, and I’ll likely be happy for them.
You're not a fan of United if you're happy to see United get beat. Sad state of affairs.
@@adventurefilmclub2549 I'd say there's some classic British nihilistic sarcasm at play there
@@adventurefilmclub2549 yep. LMTB/ST in J since 86. Am obviously not a fan..
Aren't we playing Porto? I thought these guys are playing for Fernebarche
@@leekambanga6450 porto are gonna rip up us a new one
I don’t have to “have a meltdown” to be rational and see what everyone is seeing!!
We've backed Ten Hag, a huge majority of fans are tired of chop & changing managers. But this is unacceptable two consecutive 0-3 defeats @ Old Trafford & we still trying to justify Ten Hag keeping his job is nonsense 🤔 when did our standard's stoop so low.
What standards?
If a petulant boy like Bruno is the best option as captain then you know there are no standards. There are no leaders on the pitch.
If Rashford is the biggest star produced by your academy in the last years or decade then you know there are no standards.
You're just a midtable team with overhyped and overpaid players that can't even play possession based football. Midtable counter football is the best you can. And if your silly club doesn't overpay, none of them want to come and waste their career.
MU is a circus club and you're one of its many 🤡s
Mid 2013, but it started in 2005.
7-0 defeat vs Liverpool.
3-0 defeat vs Liverpool.
6-3 defeat vs Manchester City.
3-0 defeat vs Manchester City.
3-0 defeat vs Tottenham.
2-0 defeat vs Tottenham.
4-0 defeat vs Brentford.
3-0 defeat vs Sevilla.
3-0 defeat vs Bournemouth.
3-0 defeat vs Newcastle United.
4-0 defeat vs Crystal Palace.
And this is not even 50% of everything, crazy how Ten Hag has survived so long when you think about it.
I suspected this Ste guy was a spoofer a long time ago. Talks all sorts of 'modern tactics' guff but can't spot a woeful manager when it's staring him in the face for two years.
I reckon he is just married to his opinion and can't accept when he is wrong. Same with ole. Same with Ralph. He just waits till the wheels fall off then jumps on with the new one and how he's going to turn the club around
Mate, I think that's what supporting a club is about. You support the manager. You can think the manager is shit, but we want United to do well. It doesn't matter who the manager is or who the players are when/if United wins the league. What matters is the name manchester united is on the pl trophy.
@aranyachakravorty4262 he clearly rates the manager though, that's the difference. The amount of excuses he is spewing is mental
@@BillyJacobs94 let's be real, can we define any player or manager at manchester united. We've had plenty of managers post Fergie, and it's always the same thing after three years. When ten Haag was appointed amongst all the protests I told myself, glazers out before we get rid of another manager. Changing the manager is fine, but it won't change anything. Not changing the manager might.
@@aranyachakravorty4262 thing is glazers aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Also just look at arsenal,they hated their owners but their owners are the same and they found the right man and structure. Stop clinging to the glazers as an excuse for everything. Do you mean to tell me that no one on earth can do a better job than this manager now?
Keeping ten hag is like staying in a toxic relationship, you know it’s bad, you know it isn’t going to improve. Then later down the line when it is over you’ll wish it ended sooner.
I think post Fergie and under the glazers United lost its identity as a football club. I go back to Fergie’s flip chart Pace, Power, Penetration and unpredictability. That was his interpretation of the United way. The wider worry for me is, what is the vision for the future under Ineos and does it fit with the clubs identity? What I want is a modern interpretation of the United way and not a pale imitation of city. Because if you only copy others you will always be one step behind. So although I don’t think we should sack ten hag immediately, long term I’m not convinced he’s a good fit for us.
Agreed.
Not his fault, but his responsibility? Make me understand that, please?
It's simple.
Example: It may not be your fault your child is stupid and stuck their head through railings, but it is your responsibility as a parent to fix.
Another example: it may not be your fault things are not going well in your life because... Life happens. But it is your responsibility.
Fault and responsibility can be their own individual entities.
Can’t agree that results aren’t his fault. The results have come because of the tactics and team selections that he’s made. That is directly his fault.
Also, I’d disagree that Yoro (not needed) Ugarte (looks like he’s never kicked a ball before) and Zirkzee (lost sheep on a pitch) are all poor signings
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣wow!
Each time Ten Hag sinks hs fanbois come upmwith new waffle to support him. last season was he needs to work under the new structure = with Ten Hag himslef saying with a full squad he can beat anyone
now he has a full squad under the strucutre like they said and hes bad like real bad now its there no candidates🤣
Absolutely love to see it. 😂😂😂
If the main reason you're sticking with him is because there's no one else - not because he's the right person, or his philosophy or personality etc - but because there's no one else, then you're doomed from the beginning.
Ste, if you back the current manager because there's no one else out there, you aren't really backing the manager. That is what Man Utd have done this summer. If one were to talk that way about a girlfriend/wife, there's no way it ends well.
What a stupid comparison.
@@lew115 it is a very good comparison. people stay in unhealthy relationships all the time because they can't imagine things could be better with someone else.
@@notesfrommateriality7572 It really isn't. A silly comparison which simps think is deeper than it really is.
@@lew115 I think it's comparable because at the end of the day, a football manager works in the context of relationships. If you get someone not because he's the right one but because there's no one else - football manager, physicist, carpenter, wife - you are doomed from the start. Ten Hag is surely doomed this season.
@@lew115it is actually a good comparison. It is a matter of trust. When there is evidently no trust, the relationship is over. It will fall apart on the first chance. The first chance showed up already in September. It could not have worked otherwise. Farewell ETH.
You are wrong Ste! Managers DO have an impact, both short term, aka new manager bounce and long term! Villa are the prime example but look at Chelsea, 50 new players are playing in a system, “lads it’s just Tottenham” are playing the certain way.
Its ok bruv dont you know he manages his own team and reads some football tactics books ....LUL
Are you serious?? Changing the manager doesn’t work??? So with that logic chelsea should have just stayed with lampard and changed players? Damn maybe saeed was right.. 🚶🏾♂️
Sorry how many Managers have Chelsea gone through over like the last 10 years? The point is that just by changing the manager doesn't always give you guaranteed success straight away. It ain't hard hard to fathom.
SAAED &Nurdin are the only real ones
@@utdforever9236Saeed the flip flop lol
The thing is by now I think we're all more than aware that EtH can't motivate his players and doesn't have the tactical knowledge/imagination to turn things around in game so really what's the point of keeping him if we want to be serious about competeting?
Tactics mean nothing if your players refuse to win their individual battles. Misplacing 5yard passes and being 2nd to every ball, no matter how good you, cannot guarantee you the victory
@@Charlie_Alpha_Lima very true, but im not just talking about the spurs game, im talking about at least the last year
this guy loves the club access hes never going to tell the truth..fans need to stop listening to these people..this guys still sitting here saying everything will be fine 😂😂😂😂
The whole no better candidate available argument is so hard to believe. What I find puzzling is this - other teams change managers and they show progress consistently. Unai Emery literally saved relegation bound Aston Villa and brought them into top 4.
Tomas Tuchel is literally out there and I know what people are going to say about him that he does not stick with the clubs longer. He has been at the clubs which are trigger happy to sack them. PSG - its all about results there and till recently it was about one man - Mbappe. Chelsea -the owner can sack manager because he did not like shirt manager was wearing… Bayern - they have their own reasons. You cannot deny the fact that one thing that Tuchel is good at is getting results. We do not know how he will do in a club with a proper structure…
The constant complain about injuries - is it only United that get injuries??? Other teams also get affected by severe injuries but they find their way through it. So I am sorry I would rather prefer to see Ruud managing next two games and then if he is also part of the problem - bring a Tuchel in after international break.
Ste, I really like, I don't comment on ur videos but I watch almost every single one of them. And this time I totally disagree. Ten hag is out of his depth. Look at Chelsea, look at Brighton, look at Aston villa. All our players have lost value in the past 2 to 3 years. Please we need Ten hag out. Please.
Cool, you sack him. Whats next ? Sacking a manager and not having a plan for after you have sacked him is worse than keeping him in the job. We seen this with Ole, we sacked him and had no plan to move forward just vibe it till the end of the season. ETH has a good first season (anyone that tries to downplay it leave you're not apart of this conversation and are just whining for the sake of it). Last season, 8th place finish horrendous that came with an unprecedented FA cup win and the most amount of injuries united have had in a season EVER.
Bloody hard to bed a style of play when you're chopping and changing the squad every week.
We have been down this road before of sacking managers and calling off the season before it's even started.
We are just a dog shit football team right now. End of😢
Would you honestly take Southgate over Ten Hag?
Look at Chelsea, Brighton and Aston Villa? How many trophies have they won in the last two seasons? There is a world of difference between managing those clubs and managing Utd. It took Ferguson 6 years to win his first league title.
Agree this manager has come to the end now.
Hypothetically speaking...I think Man United finished all the goals vs Barnsley.
ten hag's belief in rashford and bruno will get him sacked
The next manager will still believe in them especially Rashford. Believe you me. Not to mean ETH is without mistakes or that he shouldn't be sacked.
It was Fred Sancho Scotty and others fault before
Every manager that comes in is told to build the team around rashy that is why he always starts
agreed they are great players on their day but you have to do what's right for the team. I love bruno but neither of them are captain material. Their lack of discipline let them both down
Signing Antony for 85m, losing 7-0 and finishing bottom of a UCL group should have done it tbh. Nothing will erase those things.
I think it's one bad half we played and everyone is ready to sack ten hag . We have shown some improvement in other games .
I think ten hag and Errickson made a mistake and pissed off the dressing room by saying FC twenty wanted it more . If these over sensitive players can get over that , then ETH should be safe
I think his time is up honestly, without that fa cup win he would have been gone in the summer. Ineos need to bring in their own guy.
I was willing to put last season down to injuries, but weve started excactly the same. Continually losing to our rivals in such humiliating ways is unacceptable
I'm so confused by the performance. We know United are better than this. I think I'll just put this here and leave it:
Young players breaking in often do not wont for quality. The reason they made it is because they have the quality. The sticking point is almost always the consistency, and as players age and gain experience, so comes the consistency. There are exceptions, of course, but those are exceptions; "generational talents" who just get it, the most recent probably being Bellingham.
I see a lot of that with this Ten Hag squad. We know they're good; we've seen it. They can really play, and aside from scoring, they're a ready-made article. So it's about the consistency, then, and that will only come with time. While there are some players at United who are older, the squad itself is actually quite young, and there are a lot of members who are quite new (key players, even). It's not an excuse; it's how things are. I'm saying, objectively, United were dogshit yesterday.
It's just, for me, if consistency is lacking, making more, drastic changes, like a manager, isn't going to help that situation. Remaining largely static and creating a solid base on top of a solid management structure (which has only been around since... July-ish, I think?) after a decade+ of absolute turmoil and mismanagement is the way to go. All United need right now is a calm hand: that's it. Uprooting everything won't change this.
I'm probably in the minority now, and I get that. Not looking to get a bunch of fire for this comment. It was a shit match and a shit day and a shit morning after. I just don't see how sacking Erik will lead to better results outside of maybe (maybe) the immediate short term.
GGMU
Supporter.
This squad is entirely better than Spurdls, and even if we weren't, based on talent alone, not set up are good enough for atleast a draw. That performance was a pwereonal eff you to ten Hag by the players. Something has happened behind the scenes
Great comment. But is ten Hag the person who will provide this calm hand (head)? Even the owners retained him because they couldn't find an alternative. That isn't a vote of confidence, the way I see it. The players also know that. Ten Hag already lost even before the season began. It's a mess and that begins from the top.
So funny to hear the normally loud ' i know everything' metrics man clinging to every excuse he can for ETH
It's pathetic. Loads of paid shills for sure. Never say anything bad even when it's terrible and appalling
Paid by whom? lmao
You are a fool.
I'll never understand people who watch content they don't like and are actively against.
@coconutzmilk it's man utd content, fool. I dontvwatch eastenders. I watch Manchester United stuff whether I agree or not. I'm not an agreeing little minion like u
Beautifully put into context Ste.
He isn't a bad manager.
We have been in trouble since the Glazer's took over. SAF managed to disguise the mess for a few years.
Ineos is a long term project, they looked for a replacement and couldn't find anyone better than Erik.
People are so fast to forget the first 60 minutes against Palace when everyone was raving about the style of play.
It isn't a switch. It will take time before the players do that for 90 minutes in every game.
You make the point well about managers and the associated psychology/performance/results etc.
Yesterday though Ten Hag seemed to offer zero to the players in terms of plan b.
He looked on in confusion, like me and 70,000 spectators. Ten Hag should have been trying to put out fires all over the pitch. There was nothing mate. Exactly why the players were so passive, the crowd was so quiet and the global audience were sat in silence.
Ten Hag looked like he just wants paying off. Is anyone telling me these players are being coached? Collectively they were a shambles because individually each man had no clue even where he should be standing.
Im actually shocked he's still there. He's got to go Ste
Ste, in previous videos you said we're improving. And I'm scratching my head thinking, are we watching the same game here?!?
Porto and Villa next 💀
Porto on the road? Strike two.
A lot depends on how Villa does against Bayern Wednesday. If they lose, between that and the draw to Ipswich, they'll be loaded for bear come Sunday.
Easy
Hopefully the undertaker that is Mourinho will put the nail in the coffin.
Save his job? 2 years of mediocrity and you still think there's something to be saved? You can't be serious 🤦♂️
Steve - there’s 2 excellent candidates.
1. As Interim - RvN with Roy Keane as a coach (this would have worked with Ole too). Keane would sort out the mentality & energy problem.
2. Permanent- buy Diego Simione out of his contract at Athletico. Tactical, tough, demanding, develops youth, regularly beats teams with twice his resources - like SAF, he gets more out of his team than the sum of its parts.
Morning Ste.. I don't know what to say.
Its a shit show
I'm in the same brackets. I don't know what to say or what the perfect solution is. I'm just waiting for whatever decisions are gonna come from the owners.
Feel the same, not even sure I’ve got the energy to watch much football at the moment! It won’t be forever though boys ❤
Same
@@directorme6669 Same here mate. Would i be surprised if he goes ? No. Do i want him to go ? Not really but he's making it difficult to back him with some of his decisions.
well said sid!
Mate talking bollocks again, sorry!
These are ETH players so the whole recruitment thing shows it comes back to the manager he chose the players.
We are terrible at every metric available - choose anyone you want I guarantee we are not good at it. That's on the manager.
We KEEP missing chances this is not new....
These players fall in one of three categories,
1- has potential but not top class at the moment
2- decent competent players but not elite
3- shit
Regardless of the manager that combination does not create a team that dominates anything,
Just because the board changed a few months doesn't mean that we'll suddenly be amazing, Berrada is right, aim for 2/3 years to make a fair judgement,
This happened last season and we won a trophy by May,
PATIENCE PATIENCE PATIENCE for the love of God
We had 2 objectives (surely) in the summer.
1) get rid of deadwood
2)bring in players who improve the squad
We managed to get “some” deadwood
And we did bring in some players who have improved us.
We now need to bring in creativity and goals
You have said so much there without saying anything. We’re shit and the manager is shit. Simple as
But what about the xG? you called us all idiots for not seeing all the supposed improvement that you saw. you said it showed it was all about to come good. But it didn't. The supposed "haters" were right. we are shit. manager is shit. wake up. you were wrong.
As facts change so do opinions.......until yesterday, he was right, there were obvious improvements.
@@lew115 no there wasn't. it was the same old shit you just couldn't see it. that's why the guy's saying it were crying about metrics rather than seeing what there is to be seen. you were all screaming that the metrics showed we were coming good. and we ain't. your metrics were shit and you don't know ball. just admit it and apologise to those of us who you slandered
@@BilboBaggins-tn6hnso watching the games so far this season, you haven't seen any improvements?
@@BilboBaggins-tn6hn no, this is factually not true. All the metrics support it. No one is saying it's been fantastic, but it has provably been significantly better.
An opinion is still an opinion Ste. In all research the results can be directed to the outcome that you need to support your thesis. When it comes to player performance there are so many variables in which to quantify and present the rationale. It actually cannot be based on fact it will still be an opinion. And as reader of that book it will have had a natural bias that you have agreed with. So it’s still an opinion. Please don’t just write off the people that are saying ETH is not good enough. We have given him the allowances for Ronaldo, Greenwood et al as you asked for. But now is crunch time win, lose or draw. There has to be an improvement with no excuses. Ste they didn’t truly back him they just didn’t think there was a better option than him at that time who was available. Truly backing him would have been a new deal. Triggering the extension was a safety valve that may have burst. I actually hope he does win his next 100 games never mind the next 2. But him and his team need to show us something right now.
In his first two seasons at the club we’ve won two trophies and EtH got more transfers correct than he didn’t despite not trusting the recruitment structure at the time and despite the woeful performance of the dealings team. But ultimately we were plagued by the same issues that have cost every United manager their job post Fergie. But we won two trophies and despite beating us 3-0, no Tottenham fan can say that about any of their quality managers since 2008.
Last season was hectic with ownership changes and injuries. Given what he’s been able to achieve during a turbulent time for Man Utd, EtH absolutely deserved a do-over. Clearly INEOS agreed there was no one available and better for the job anyway.
This season we’ve had our first transfer window with INEOS, we’ve had improvements in our dealings, we’ve had improvements off the pitch, we’ve had improvements at Carrington and we’ve had improvements on the pitch. But it’s still a project. Let them cook.
I thought Neville made a great point about Eriksen’s comment, if ETH can’t motivate ppl the X’s & O’s are for nothing. You can bullshit the fans but you can’t bullshit the players
I've never heard of a manager having to motivate Cristiano Ronaldo. Why do players need to be motivated? Do they not want silverware and medals and glory like every supporter does?
@Charlie_Alpha_Lima 100% agree, if you're not motivated by the wages and the glory you shouldn't be playing.
I'm 💯% behind the manager and the team. We're essentially playing with a new back four, plus midfield, that need time to gel after the horrendous injury disruption of last season. We need to support the team and trust things will change, which they will.
You’ve nailed it, responsibly sits with the manager regardless of whether he is to blame or not and he knows it. We need inspirational leadership and it won’t come from ETH but I don’t know who can
Villa are destroying us this weekend and it’s going to be rough to watch… Porto first though 😥
He is gone next week!
We desperately need Højlund back, I know he’s yet to prove he can get 20+ goals in the league but the fact is he’s an out and out No9 but he’ll need service. We’ve been playing without a No9 this season, Zirlzee is not a striker, he’s said that himself and that’s fine, he links up play so well so I’m personally excited to see what he can do with someone actually playing in front of him. Next two games are huge but if we can play like we did in that first half against Palace and get Højlund scoring I actually think we’ll kick on and be fine but we desperately need Højlund up top imo.
Ste, I backed ten Hag through an absolute maelstrom last season. Whether I had wool over my eyes then or seriously believed he was the right one, it doesn’t matter now. I can’t ignore the evidence of my eyes on the basis of ‘he needs time’.
Other managers didn’t need over half a billion and 2.5 years to get to a half-decent standard, and that’s all that’s being asked of him. Nobody expected a title challenge, but he can’t even consistently deliver top 4 worthy performances.
The biggest issue with him is he DOES NOT know his best XI. It changes every single week. You can blame injuries, but he has every single player available apart from Shaw and he still can’t field something consistent. I don’t think he wanted Ugarte personally, and I don’t think he’s overly keen on Amad.
The football is kamikaze and we have ZERO control across the pitch. We’re either trying to score as soon as we win the ball or we’re looking like conceding when we fail to get it back. You don’t need to be a coach of a lower league team to see it.
The style of football he wants is not compatible with a 38 game Premier League, and only works across several months - and usually in a knockout format.
To say that Porto and Villa are must win isn’t even a statement. Every game as Manchester United manager is a must win ffs. If he wins them both and then loses the game after, what was the point? Will it then be a ‘oh, he can’t lose the next game?’
Season is over in September.
Well said Ste. A bit of perspective is always needed, people seem to lean on United to make them feel better about themselves, maybe because we used to be so successful, and now that's not happening they're outraged and can't deal with it.
I like the phrase: it's not his fault but his responsibility. I can't agree more.
Yesterday was down to lack of effort and heart for most of it, resulting in continuous carelessness that spread through the team and eventually players looking lost with a lack of confidence, quality, leadership or communication. But this is something we've seen far too often under several disparate teams of coaching staff and managers over several years. Better players make better teams and results but not when there's basics missing in terms of effort.
Your first statement is exactly right. I feel the players shocking, we don't have a goal. Scorer. Goals. Win games
United will struggle to get one point out of the next 2 fixtures. Are we wasting time with TH at this point? I imagine, and hope Ineos are doing the due diligence and preparing for his exit.
One of the reasons it is so frustrating and depressing is due to his first season. 3rd and 2 Cup finals with a team that needed "open heart surgery" set us on a path. Now it seems we peaked 2 years ago. This doesn't feel like a dip in form it feels like downward spiral. We had a very good summer transfer window and yet we are doing the same as last season with a huge amount of injuries. To blame "structure" is one thing but to not blame the manager is bizarre now. Could it be he's just not good enough? Could it be that he chooses the wrong team and sets up wrong? It's one thing to get beat, it's the way we get beat. We get obliterated by our "rivals" constantly
He steadfastly refuses to change the system to avoid defensive frailties- apart from FA cup final - and same errors keep being exposed. He keeps picking certain players irrespective of form and suitability. We need to stop giving the ball away - the biggest culprit - the guy who is never dropped or subbed. That is on ETH - he has had more time than many clubs would have given him. We are virtually out of a top 4 finish now….
The manager is the most influential person in the club in terms of results.
Bringing Mbappe wouldn't fix this miss, but a Klopp would affect the team more
What ste is saying in the beginning is true.
My friends and myself; all ETH out were discussing whether or not we would prefer United to lose to get ETH out. I simply cannot want United to lose.. but the fact that that is a discussion is so sad.
Also; one thing my late dad told ne about Leeds then; if a manager cannot manage money; the team will have issues.
And this is so true with Glazers and ETH. If ETH could not perform with money being £340m over budget over his tenure; he cant manage anything.
Dont want another manager... at least not this season....we are better than last season but still not good enough though...its just that bielsa man 2man...that doesn't work with lazy players...
Couldn't agree more with your united perspective and the line I've been to fucking war man I've got a bit of perspective was a funny one 😂
There have been studies done on Manager influence, once the players are on the pitch. I think it came out at less than 5%, the study found (shock horror), the vast majority of on field decisions were down to the players, looking at some of ours, it becomes obvious why we are struggling.
I appreciate your commentary Howson, your fact based, pragmat approach is why I come back to your channel almost daily.
The overcooked emotional commentary is NOT going to bring us back to winning trebles
Changing the manager doesn't work. It didn't work with Moyes, it didn't work with Van Gaal, it didn't work with Mourinho or Ole or Ragnick. Sacking every manager after two seasons because we are not back to Ferguson levels of success is pathetic. For those people saying "but this is unacceptable for Utd, we're the biggest club in the world", please go back and watch Mourinho's "what football heritage" press conference from several years ago. We are not entitled to success. It took Ferguson 6 years to win the league. If we're not going to show patient now, then when?
Thank you. Just thank you this is the mindset we need to be in.
Everyone forgets that ETH has managed the club through the most turbulent time in recent history, all the off field issues are not his fault, but all of them affect the team and performances, it will take a while for the atmosphere and culture to change in the club.
Ronaldo his fault, Sancho his fault. Antony 70m flop, his fault, De Gea being treated like shit, his fault. It's his job to manage the big egos and sort out the team, these are his players and thry are playing shite
@@PirateRemy he is not without fault, but the general state of the club during the last 2 years also has to be acknowledged surely?
@MarkTimberlake 100%. I've backed Ten Hag but I think he lacks the ability to inspire..which is what Ferguson had in spades. We don't have to be technically perfect but the will to win is severely lacking
@@PirateRemy Do you think players on those wages need someone to inspire them? I get your point, but surely elite footballers should be able to inspire themselves? I think the real issue is they cannot cope with the pressure psychologically and emotionally and they need to bring in specialists to help the players with that.
@MarkTimberlake historically the best teams are inspired by a leader big personalities managers, captains, players ...that's just a fact. The wages have nothing to do with the human psyche, if anything it's detrimental.
Fully agree with your perspective / facts here Ste. ETH also feeling struggle of narrative set by pundits comments - in particular ex united. G Nev no longer commentating, it’s a total rant and it is only allowed because his affiliation with the club but unfortunately it sets a precedent for how others talk about us. I find it hard to believe any other commentator on any other game would get away with narrating like that - usually focus would be on how good the other team are playing. It plays a part in creating the mind set of the huge audience watching and adds to the scrutiny which can’t not feed back to the players and staff.
Honestly, thank you Ste. I fucking hate football fans sometimes. I'm one of them, but I'm so tired of this reactionary bullshit. I'm thankful that I can at least listen to someone measured who understands that you can both criticise and still want to give time to the manager/players to turn it around. It's a process, it takes years not weeks.
Ste,I’ll back him til the end,and I don’t know the answer to this either,but hand on heart to you think ETH has the stature and personality to take us where we need to go?
Pep at Luton would instil a fashion of play, a togetherness and a fear that if performances wain your position in the team is under serious threat. That may not win the premier league, as you say, but it’ll improve and inspire fans.
The fact that Bruno doesn't even know who his vice captain is, says a lot about ten hag
Yesterday was a massive off day, other than that - the start of the season has been kind of okay(somewhat right in the middle). I hope INEOS is sensible enough to give him some time around them i.e. the new management. Any business team would do that to a manager in any field.
If they sack him, and it does not work out with the next one - the fans can turn on INEOS very quickly. Massive decision to make.
I won't change my opinion that Ten Hag is a good manager. But it's getting harder and harder to believe he can turn the performances and more importantly the confidence of the team around.
We only won two games that's bad.We definitely losing to porto.
The manager found a good way of playing with Ericksen. And then ditched it yesterday. I like Ugarte but stsrting him for the first time in that game is crazy
Our players are good, I think the tactics are the problem. It's not just the current players who couldn't play his system, it's all the others from the last two seasons too. We have a good squad now but no matter which 11 he starts or which subs he makes, they can't play well for more than 20-30 mins. I think his tactics are naive and idealistic and don't work in the prem. I don't think the players are downing tools, I think they're losing belief, hope, confidence and motivation with regards to this project.
The structure at the club need to identify what the root cause of the issues with this squad and its performance is. If they determine that Ten Hag is the root cause then by all means remove him but the media and the INEOS process where they eventually kept him after looking at other managers has heaped loads of pressure on this manager and it wouldn't be a stretch that it has trickled down to the squad.
This weak mentality has corroded into our fanbase. He’s had three years and we are a fucking cup team. There is zero difference from his first day here to now. Actually we might be worse.
2 years, this is his 3rd year 🫡
Yup, all about recruitment. 15 years, you can count the genuine successes on one hand.
Antony (80m), Mount (60m), Hojlund (70m) is pretty much the death nail. Same outlay as, say, Olisie, Rice and Toney.
He could win and still go. It’s the performances that matter surely. I agree we have played much better this season and think over the course of the season it’ll even itself out. But right now…he looks on borrowed time and it’s not like there’s been a meaningful tweaks to the tactics between these performances which would suggest he’s rectifying problems. I want him to stay, but I understand why others don’t
SO WENT INTO THE SEASON WITH DIOGO DALOT AS A LB..THE CLUB IS IN SHAMBLES I SEE NO CHANGES
I see what saying ste , but ten hag just isn’t right manager , some these players may need to go to
I’m all for giving managers a chance but it’s so blatantly obvious he’s not the right fit.
Steve you are without doubt the most level headed honest Utd supporter when they are good you say it but when they are shit you say it keep it up mate .Great podcast ...I can't stand that prat Goldbridge he is going to have a stroke one day
What Ten Hag needs to be is more ruthless in player selection...He is selecting players week in week despite being extreamly poor...yes in some instance he might think he doesnt have options but he does...
He doesnt have to be so rigid..but he chooses to be rigid and it might cost him his job if he continues the same...you would rather select younger players who are impresionable,hungry and energetic and deal with the media and fans on why you didnt select their favourite Star player...as the older players gets their stuff in order...but most know their position is cemented no matter what and they can give questionable performances and still make the team next time...
To be honest, there is so much to say that I choose to be quiet. Speechless.
The only bright spot with man u right now its the academy, there is some serious potential there and im really hoping that next 2 -3 years we will atleast play better fotboll
Nobody wants to see managers getting the sack . But we need to have a new strategy where we are less committed and don’t sign massive contracts. We need to try different managers and be more ruthless until we get the right one . I think there are lots of options. We have to choose someone who is an excellent coach as well as a great team leader. We should not overthink . Ten Hag just to authoritarian without the tactics .
Yes the ‘Average’ manager might not make a difference which is why United hired Ten Haag as he was deemed an elite manager from his time at Ajax. Ajax’s drop off I believe supports that. I like Ten Haag but if your argument is that he’s an average manager than maybe he should go.
The one person that United has failed to obtain is an on-field leader. ala Gattuso, Ballack, Ramos, Puyol, Kompany, Vieira.....United hasn't had that man since Wazza and Ibrahimovic' Regardless of who stands on the touchline, there's no fear until you have to face an angry Roy Keane
I fully believe we're going to repeat this cycle for the forseeable future. Whatever manager/player comes in is going to get buried by the pressure. There is not a manager alive that can do this job or even wants to.
I agree with you on your outlook on football in the beginning. We watch football as a hobby, and there are much more stressful situations we go through in life. So why make your hobby another one that stresses you out. It's football lads. If this current manager isn't gonna work out, the club will move on and start again. IMO, should the board decide to move on to a new manger. See out the season with ETH and not make any short-sighted decisions on his successor.
I don't actually think them 2 games matter on the grand scheme of things. If they are looking at performances (which they are), they will keep on doing it. Arteta lost 8 on a bounce, still stayed in the job. And they played nowhere near as good as we do now. Xmas earliest real conversation. They didn't sack him after 4-0 at Selhurst while not backing him - why do it now?
I get the idea that a manager needs time and its really weird when people dont see that, but at what point is time afforded to a manager time wasted going in the wrong direction? Its been 2 years since and we're going on 3 and other than 2 cup trophies which are great achievements, we have not seen ANY real, tangible, consistent improvements in the league, against big opposition, in Europe, etc.... At some point you have to cut out the second chances and take the gamble on someone else when its a gamble to see where Erik takes us anyways....
It’s never as good or as bad as you think. The whole football department need to take responsibility. It’s not like it was in the old days when the manager basically controls everything. Now days you have systems which is clearly not been working for 10 years +. The department has only just been updated and it will take time to see the effects of it.
Ten hag cannot make a balanced team and the reason for that is that he tries to play with a midfield of one person or none (the rest being lightweight nr 10 creative people) but also press with so many people upfront that there is no midfield. When every team in the premierleague except spurs and liverpool play with three proper midfielders who can do the hard work and be creative. In addition he tried to place full pitch teams that are faster and move the ball much better. Probably the worst part is the team cannot pass the ball from midfield (and sometimes to midfield) - unless we are playing very weak, slow teams.
This is just based on Ratcliff's own words
Ineos will not change the manager mid season. However Ten Hag will not be the manager next season.
Their priority this season is the backroom staff and the organisation. Next year they will want to chose their own manager based on their own analysis of the clubs identity and style of play.
Someone has to loose in a game of football and sometimes it will be us. That’s life. What is unacceptable is the manner of the defeat. Caught cold at the start of each half, with a player running right through our team with the ball! Ridiculous, it was like watching a Sunday morning pub team play.
Give it to Giggsy till the end of the season
I think United are no longer the United of old. The identity is there but it's buried under 10 years of mismanagement. United are in a period of transition under ten Hag and the goal now is the build a squad that can consistently compete for the title and Europe. The CEO said the goal is to win the title by 2028. That's 4 years from now!! We have to be more patient. United will suffer for as long as it takes to get to the goal. We will suffer as fans witnessing this transition. It's part of the deal if we want to see results.
Even tho it’s Erik’s responsibility, I look at these games and I don’t really see issues outside of our players making big errors
Thank you for being the one who talks sense
Thanks for being the voice of reason bossman. Feel like I'm going nuts these days watching people's reaction to this current shitshow. Keep it up lad