Funny story: At Indy Center one time, a fairly new controller was working an F16 when suddenly he declared an engine failure. The controller was very calm and collected until she asked him which engine had failed. After a brief moment, he replied "the one that was making all the noise, ma'am." Still laugh about that thirty years later. And yes, he safely deadsticked the landing into Patterson Air Force Base.
Haha funny. I wonder if she momentarily forgot the differences between say a F-16, 15 or 18 and which ones have multiple engines... or maybe it was just a route response from her.
As a retired UK ATPL I have had two engine out situations, both fraught and very busy...This audio is a wonderful depiction of the cooperation and slick interaction between the ATC, the emergency A/C all the other traffic who move Heaven and Earth to get you on the ground..........Good Job...
My only flying expreience is gliders out of Nmypfield in the 80's & early 90's prior to moving to Coloado for Job related reasons. Just prior to reading your comment I was thinking about the conversation from two directions; the ATC was clearly on the ball giving the pilots relevant information, but on the other hand it seemed that thne ATC was bombarding the pilots with information to the point of distraction. What does it take in a situation like this to get the balance right? How does the psychology work to achieve the best outcome?
@@autoauto8464 Huh? It takes a while to run checklists, get the approach set up, etc. If it was an engine on fire, that would be different and they'd want to land immediately, but for a more typical engine-out scenario like this one, there's no immediate rush to be on the ground. Much better to take your time and make sure you don't mess something up. Several years ago, a twin turboprop airliner crashed in Taiwan after an engine failure precisely because the pilots unnecessarily put themselves in too much of a rush and accidentally shut down the wrong engine.
@@vbscript2 Totally agree. Not to mention in any full engine out, and many partial engine out situations, you are trading altitude for airspeed. Wings level (as best as possible), pitch for best glide, and run through the checklist(s).
Well done by everyone. One engine, big mountains and busy airspace and everyone doing their job, calm, cool and collected. Sure it wasn’t particularly enjoyable for those involved, but very enjoyable to listen to, knowing that everyone got safely on the ground.
That guy at ATC was AMAZING!!! He gave them every single piece of information they needed and helped all the way down. Hopefully they promoted that guy.
For goodness sake! Souls on board is always such a needless trauma during an emergency! Why doesn't the FAA just required that as a last step before pushing away from the gate, SOMEBODY on board figure out how many people are actually on the plane and report it in some way easily accessible to the pilots? Jeez Louise, even a sticky note on the dashboard wirh that number would be useful in an emergency--and a sobering reminder of the responsibility the pilots carry. Souls on board is the last thing pilots need to be thinking about during an actual emergency, but the people on the ground sure do need to know!
Yeah definitely big mountains to look for. Every time I depart that runway the plane usually shoots right and climbs. Never had a departure go anywhere close to them for obvious reasons. You’d have to rocket climb for that haha
@@triggyy5287 Commercial flights departing RWY 8 generally turn left 310 to stay well clear of the Sandias; relatively fewer flights turn right 170 until they get enough altitude to, generally, turn left and fly east over the Manzanos. I've seen military and civil fly straight into Tijeras Pass between the Sandias and Manzanos.
My wife and I were one of the 128 souls on board. We pull around Albuquerque Valley for estimate at least 20 minutes. We dumped fuel. I am a loyal AA lifetime Platinum with 2.5 million passenger miles.( My father flew 27 years for American.)First engine loss I’ve been in. I Was in the emergency exit seat 14f. As we lifted off the ground at maybe 200 feet up, that right engine suddenly shuddered and shook. Our angle of attack was roughly maintained but our climb rate seem to really drop. The aircraft seems sluggish like a big pig. Somewhat ominous was there was no communication from the cockpit for perhaps at least a minute. Obviously they were really busy upfront.
They were certainly busy. Losing an engine is something that we all train for, but would be a surprise for any crew. You didn’t dump any fuel however. The A319/320/321 doesn’t have the ability to dump fuel.
@@TB-um1xz the A319 doesn't have a fuel dump option. They either circled until down to landing weight or they landed overweight Mr. Know It All with A Snarky Response.
As one of the souls that was on board, this was the worst 30 minutes of my life. The attendants seemed scared, there was only one communication from the cockpit, and the final right turn made me question if we'd land. I'm not knowledgeable like most commenters here. How much danger were we truly in? Experience after was pretty awful and I have little desire to ever fly on American again.
You honestly weren’t in much danger, airplane mechanic here. Most of the larger jets you’ll encounter will run and fly safely on just one engine. It’s engineered that way to get people to the ground safely, as it did in your case.
An engine failure is almost a non-issue. That's one of the reasons there are two engines. Certainly nothing against American. Every airline has engine failures. Abnormal, yes, unsafe, no. Pilots are well trained and experienced at this level of flying. Please think of this next time you see a pilot group picketing or on strike for better compensation and work rules that promote their fitness for duty and well being.
Our Baby buses at my airline have been experiencing engine failures flying out of Albuquerque with our baby buses regularly enough that we had GE engineers in our hanger looking into it.. the 737s have no issues with the same engine ... weird
@@mgtowacademy8433 Honestly no clue, last I heard they were looking into the bank angles and the shape of the aircraft/cowls effect on the turbine because this specific airport requires a bank and decent positive attitude to avoid hitting a nearby mountain.. but when they send us a "revision" Ill update here lol
Good grief, leave them alone, tower! Give ‘em a straight-in for the longest runway, let them run checklists, and for pete’s sake they’ll get you fuel and souls aboard when (if) they have a chance.
It's the way US ATC is. Americans are obsessed with procedure to the point that the procedure becomes more important than the goal it's trying to achieve. That's why American ATC is so intrusive and at the same time so sloppy. Compare this with the Thompson bird strike engine loss comms. ruclips.net/video/9KhZwsYtNDE/видео.html
The pilots needn’t respond and can ask ATC to leave them alone if they found it unhelpful. If they feel they’re being distracted they should voice that so they can then focus on aviating. Other pilots have done this and asked for no comms until they contact them.
ATC needed to SHUT UP. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. He should know that coordinating with ATC is the last thing the pilots are worried about right now.
That wouldn’t tell you if the engine separated from the aircraft. You would probably just get a bunch of amber XXXs on your engine display. Still wouldn’t confirm anything. I guess a flight attendant would be able to tell you if the thing was just gone.
I lost track of the time that the controller advised the weather as "light/moderate/heavy" - was he just "covering all of the bases" or is there a reason to use this terminology?
It's most likely because of the area of coverage being 13 miles across it ranged from light to heavy, with areas of moderate in there as well, so he was letting the pilot know that, though he should have just said, "Large area of weather with light to heavy precipitation" in an abbreviated fashion because the pilots are focused on flying the planes so they are only really listening half way. Thought it seemed that the controller was more rattled by this than the flight crew.
This is right in the middle of our monsoon season. Thunderstorms are common in the afternoon, and the weather quickly changes from light to moderate to heavy inside the span of a few minutes, and over the course of a few miles. That is more than likely what was going on.
After we landed on the runway, we were immediately in a downpour. We then had to wait at the gate until the wind died down for them to bring out the jet bridge.
To everyone getting on ATC about asking questions, that’s their job. If you’re not ready to deal with increased comm from declaring an emergency then don’t. Plane won’t fall out of the sky with one engine failure. Run your checklists, request new vectors if you need them, and fly the plane.
Many of these videos seem to show pilots not being assertive enough. It’s not “I think we need to return”, it should be “I’m turning left/right, maintaining xxxxft…” Maybe they’re trying to be polite or something but if you’ve had an emergency and have called mayday then the sky is yours. No need to ask to jettison, no need to ask for permission for anything. I’m turning back, empty the sky for me.
In Albuquerque, in August, it's the middle of our monsoon season. It is quite common to have all three in the span of a few minutes and over the course of a few miles.
@@iananderson8363 Oh yeah! It's a real pain in the ass if you're flying GA. I've probably had 50% of my flights cancelled, in August, because of developing thunderstorms.
Runway 3 is 10,000 feet long. Runway 8 is 13,793 feet long. However, the plane was south of the airport and Runway 3 is a better alignment for a south approach. Runway 8 / 26 is east / west. The east side of the airport is problematic because there are mountains. Runway 3 gives a long approach over the valley. Runway 8 (west approach) is over the West Mesa and then over the valley. Both 3 and 8 can have approaches that are 40+ miles over flat terrain.
@@buckhorncortez I’ve flown in there many times in my airliner. My issue was that we may be missing some coms as they swapped back and forth several times. It’s not something you want to do at the last minute. It would be a reduced flap landing. Do the longest runway would be the near runway.
I always wonder, don't they have the souls on board from the start when given a passenger manifest? It always seems like that they are looking for the number.
They do but it has absolutely nothing to do with their primary goal of flying a broken airplane and getting it on the ground safely. A common theme in these videos is how distracting this question is to crews that are already task-saturated. If ATC really needs to know this info, they have AA dispatch on speed dial.
Jesus, this controller needs to settle down. I understand that he wants to get the emergency aircraft in quick, but there's a lot of checklists and setting up to do with an engine failure. Put em in a box pattern, don't badger the pilots, and they will get to you when they're ready to head in.
Overall a good job..... but , The plane said they needed to return immediately.... apparently, they decided to delay and run checklists. No problem with that, but it would have been better if they notified the tower of that. It did become obvious later on, however.
How do you know what the “plane said?!” 🤣🤦♂️ Since you don’t know, the plane immediately pulled up ECAM actions for right engine failure, including the checklists (automatically) which the pilots can perform and progress through on the display. It’s not HAL 9000 saying “land now, Dave” 🤣 They have to perform the checklists, and some items may be critical to landing, including things like limited braking/ anti-skid, etc depending on the failures. If you’re landing at night, on a contaminated runway, etc, that could be a huge deal. They always perform the checklists, unless the aircraft is out of control or dead stick. Listen to all of these mayday videos, pilots almost always have to request delay vectors to run checklists. 👍
Totally agree, this is biggest thing I see from all of these videos on the channel. Ask for what you want, which in 90% of cases, is a plan for making more time. Not "We need to come back to the airport." No, that's not at all what you want right now.
I assumed they wanted to know if they needed to inspect the runway or not. And they did inspect it to be safe. That was my guess but I m just "a passenger" on these videos.
When aircraft sid idle for two years, in some cases, and all airlines are short maintainers and flight crews stuff happens. My son is a maintainer for private jets. He has friends in the commercial industry. Those folks have very tough jobs led by company leaders who are not necessarily aviator enthusiast.
In Albuquerque, in August, it's the middle of our monsoon season. So it is not uncommon to have all three at the same time over the course of a few miles (and in the span of a few minutes).
I was on that flight and after we landed we were not allowed to go to the gate for several minutes because a significant microburst made it unsafe for the ramp personnel to bring us in according to the pilot.
Their immediate concern is traffic clearance and avoidance - shortly after a mayday, everything is a bit chaotic. The pilots know they should avoid turning into a dead engine, but honestly with the flight protections on the A320 family (I know this was a 319) you really don’t have to worry about that as much. It was more of a gut reaction by the controller - that’s his immediate job, and the crews immediate job is to fly the plane (how they see fit/safe.) This is probably how it would work out 9 out of 10 times in this case.
@@John-Andersen “Mr. Anderson” wrong. The third word in that article says, “WAS” and then if you read further, “CEASED OPERATIONS 2019.” At least read the article you are referencing first. Attention to detail.
The captain answered we don't know we can't see it that's why you have your flight attendants and that's why the windows are always kept open so they can see if any problems are occurring at the engines...
Agreed. Doesn't seem like the most experienced ATC around, but he got the plane on the ground, and as long as he does that, the rest is mostly style points.
He is not a greenhorn. Has lots of experience. But you are also only hearing 1/4 of what he is doing. He has a supervisor on the phone, the approach controller in his ear and the ground controller trying to yell to get the info for the emergency vehicles.
@@wendysmith2411 Agreed, nothing about this tells me “rookie” at all, and his vectors and visual references / directions were VERY fast - you don’t see that with newbies lol.
Because the pilot said he lost the engine, instead of saying he had an engine failure. Took him literally at his word. It's not impossible for the engine to fall off, there is at least one time ot has happened as the result of a repair error.
normally when a crew says standby the controller provides a moment of silence..... this guy acknowledged the standby and immediately asked the next question. I'm not sure he understood the term standby. Good job by ATC but sometimes the best thing to do is shut the.... up.
Sudden wondering: Why are ATC that insistent on the counted souls on board? I mean: It would be WAY easier to make a sign-off, just before disconnecting the airplane from the gate, writing how many souls the aircraft have on board. 1. It is a way better moment to do it. 2. Nobody is going to leave or enter the plane, once it is rolling on the tarmac.
Remember that airliners aren’t the only planes in the sky. General aviation has no dispatch sheet or something like that to sign off on the number of souls so asking that question to everyone makes sure they know it (when to count the bodies if it crashes).
They have to ask about fuel on board and souls on board. I know the SOB because I write it down and it’s on a piece of paper right in front of me. Fuel on board in minutes is super easy because you just look at the fuel on board on the upper ECAM and turn it into minutes. 15,000 lbs of fuel equals 150 minutes of fuel on board.
@@321captain3 i know, but *why* is the protocol like that? It seems ineffective when the number is already established when the plane is leaving the airport.
@@lyaneris I mean, per FAA "A pilot who encounters a Distress condition should declare an emergency by beginning the initial communication with the word “Mayday,” preferably repeated three times. For an Urgency condition, the word “Pan‐Pan” should be used in the same manner." This is how pilots are trained, the phraseology has changed over the years, but there's nothing to "congratulate" the pilot for... Also I believe you're confusing two totally different situations and conditions - pilots can say "mayday" or "pan pan" etc, while others may be in a situation where they declare an emergency. For example a fuel situation may prompt a discussion with ATC that gets to a point where ATC asks for clarification "are you declaring an emergency?" or "fuel emergency" in that situation... doesn't mean they have to respond with "ROGER, MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY I'M OUT OF GAS!" lol. Many such incidents happen all the time; "declaring an emergency" is usually the result of an ongoing situation. A non-safe gear indication which has to be troubleshooted first, oil or fuel pressure problems requiring ECAM actions or something like that - they may be talking to ATC for 10 minutes before it reaches the point where they actually have to declare an emergency. Those situations are all very different than an immediate incident which requires instant priority communication with ATC. Both are correct in their respective situations.
@@EstorilEm I don't feel like arguing. Sounds like you understood what OP meant, which was what I referenced, so I'm out of here. I do now the differences, and I do know how it is often handled in the US vs Europe.
The ATC probably is new judging by asking if the engine actually detached. Ultimately it doesn't really matter, but nice of him knows the plane should only turn towards the good engine.
The ATC probably heard of the November 2007 incident of Nationwide Airlines in Cape Town. It had an engine separation on rotation in a Boeing 737-200. The flight landed safety in hectic IMC conditions.
Buncha armchair pilots in the comments section currently (and I'm one of them), but the ATC handling this emergency does sound a little... inexperienced, what with the "is the engine still attached to the aircraft", and the lack of brevity, and several other things. At the very least, they should maybe switch to Decaf, and make sure they're getting enough sleep.
Is it because the radio operator said "we lost an engine"? Colloquially, we know it means that an engine has stopped functioning or ar least stopped producing useful power but it could be argued that if you say "we've lost an engine" it could be understood as the engine is no longer attached and is now lost. Definitely worth the ATC clarifying as whilst the chances or odds are that it was the first of the scenarios I described, the second isn't impossible and the ATC needs good information to work with from the beginning as he may have needed to alert emergency services to a fallen engine in a populated area.
@@restojon1 That's a good point, but there's two problems I can think of with it. 1. By the time the crew of the aircraft know that they have in fact had an engine physically detach from the vehicle, and have visually confirmed it, meaning all the crew are in agreement of that being the case (so they have their story straight when the accident investigators get involved), then the engine will have already impacted the ground, so telling everyone to duck doesn't really help things (and additionally the air crew probably won't be able to help determine where exactly it landed). This is the usual case for anything of any size that falls off an aircraft and doesn't land on airport property. 2. The way aircraft are built these days, the only situation in which an engine SHOULD depart the vehicle in the first place, would be an extremely violent (and uncontained) failure of said engine, say a turbine disc failure that severs the structural linkages (if that's even possible). In these cases, the crew will likely still only know "that was a really bad noise and jolt felt thru the aircraft, so something really bad happened" and will almost certainly be far too busy trying to land the aircraft as soon as possible and not at all worried about confirming the potential physical loss of an engine or not. 2a. As an addition, I'd like to state the fact that such uncontained engine failures are vanishingly rare, I can count on one hand the number of them that have happened in the last 10 years worldwide in commercial aviation.
ATC: "Is the engine still attached?" Why would you ask such a silly question? Like they have time to leave the cabin due to engine failure and go check and see if the engine flew off 😆
Not a stupid question. If they had received word from someone else on the aircraft the engine had detached atc would alert ground services to look for this and assist with any impact it may have had on the ground. One less thing to worry about if it’s still attached.
I hate to monday morning quarterback but IMO, not the best ATC work. Controller sounds nervous and unsure of himself. He kept trying to rush the crew to bring it back to the field, never asking them if they were ready for an approach. It's extremely busy up front for us in this situation (especially in a place with high terrain like ABQ), and the last thing we need is to be rushed into an approach we aren't ready for. Good job by the crew for recognizing that and delaying it until they were ready.
They had to run some significant checklists and runway calculations for landing, the audio gaps were trimmed so it seems like more talking than there actually was.
If you're going to be a critic, it behooves you to learn how to spell correctly, "Symantic's..."? Misspelled and a possessive apostrophe? Do you mean "semantics"?
You don't let a plane land in front of an emergency that could turn inbound anytime and where you have absolutely no idea what their next move will be.
Good to see that they have the A team in Albuquerque... If you want to hear a proper example of ATC handling an engine out emergency then go listen to Denver approach work in that UAL 777 earlier this year. But this.. This was awful lol
Good job FAA. You hired another idiot for the job, definitely not the worse but damn close. I know you cut out the multiple parts that were silence for the video but geez this guy needed to shut up. The aircraft should of been handed off to approach and let them work with the aircraft out not the tower. This dude has got to listen. Multiple times the pilot told him what they wanted and he keep asking away the same questions that the pilot has already given answers to.
@@wiley5oh51 lmao I work at one of the busiest airports in the country/world. Pilot told him multiple times to stand by, bc they have to run their checklists. Did he do that nope just kept on bugging them. I get he's trying to get basic required info but if they need a few mins to run their checklists then give them that time. Plus again he should have handed them off to approach, they shouldn't have stayed on the tower frequency. Seems like he probably hasn't worked an emergency before. Gotta give them a chance to do what they need to do and not chime in begging for info.
That has to be the worst bit of controlling I’ve ever heard. He is an embarrassment to ABQ ATCT. He has since been reassigned and is in remedial training! Hopefully he gets his shit straight before he puts on a headset again!!
I literally talked to him on the line like two days ago… he’s a fine controller. He’s a very hyper personality. Get your shit together before commenting on things you’ve never had to work through
![[REAL ATC] British Airways B747 engine surges on takeoff!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EWAsQ3qldo8/mqdefault.jpg)
![[REAL ATC] British Airways B747 engine surges on takeoff!](/img/tr.png)
Funny story: At Indy Center one time, a fairly new controller was working an F16 when suddenly he declared an engine failure. The controller was very calm and collected until she asked him which engine had failed. After a brief moment, he replied "the one that was making all the noise, ma'am." Still laugh about that thirty years later. And yes, he safely deadsticked the landing into Patterson Air Force Base.
Haha funny. I wonder if she momentarily forgot the differences between say a F-16, 15 or 18 and which ones have multiple engines... or maybe it was just a route response from her.
As a retired UK ATPL I have had two engine out situations, both fraught and very busy...This audio is a wonderful depiction of the cooperation and slick interaction between the ATC, the emergency A/C all the other traffic who move Heaven and Earth to get you on the ground..........Good Job...
My only flying expreience is gliders out of Nmypfield in the 80's & early 90's prior to moving to Coloado for Job related reasons. Just prior to reading your comment I was thinking about the conversation from two directions; the ATC was clearly on the ball giving the pilots relevant information, but on the other hand it seemed that thne ATC was bombarding the pilots with information to the point of distraction. What does it take in a situation like this to get the balance right? How does the psychology work to achieve the best outcome?
Too much talking should have landed in 5 minutes tops.
@@autoauto8464 Huh? It takes a while to run checklists, get the approach set up, etc. If it was an engine on fire, that would be different and they'd want to land immediately, but for a more typical engine-out scenario like this one, there's no immediate rush to be on the ground. Much better to take your time and make sure you don't mess something up. Several years ago, a twin turboprop airliner crashed in Taiwan after an engine failure precisely because the pilots unnecessarily put themselves in too much of a rush and accidentally shut down the wrong engine.
@@vbscript2 You are correct.
@@vbscript2 Totally agree. Not to mention in any full engine out, and many partial engine out situations, you are trading altitude for airspeed. Wings level (as best as possible), pitch for best glide, and run through the checklist(s).
Overlay of the approach plate is genius! awesome!
Well done by everyone. One engine, big mountains and busy airspace and everyone doing their job, calm, cool and collected. Sure it wasn’t particularly enjoyable for those involved, but very enjoyable to listen to, knowing that everyone got safely on the ground.
That guy at ATC was AMAZING!!! He gave them every single piece of information they needed and helped all the way down. Hopefully they promoted that guy.
For goodness sake! Souls on board is always such a needless trauma during an emergency! Why doesn't the FAA just required that as a last step before pushing away from the gate, SOMEBODY on board figure out how many people are actually on the plane and report it in some way easily accessible to the pilots? Jeez Louise, even a sticky note on the dashboard wirh that number would be useful in an emergency--and a sobering reminder of the responsibility the pilots carry. Souls on board is the last thing pilots need to be thinking about during an actual emergency, but the people on the ground sure do need to know!
Special engine-out procedures from rwy 8 as well. Big mountains right in front of you. Nice job by the crew….👍🏻
Yeah definitely big mountains to look for. Every time I depart that runway the plane usually shoots right and climbs. Never had a departure go anywhere close to them for obvious reasons. You’d have to rocket climb for that haha
@@triggyy5287 Commercial flights departing RWY 8 generally turn left 310 to stay well clear of the Sandias; relatively fewer flights turn right 170 until they get enough altitude to, generally, turn left and fly east over the Manzanos. I've seen military and civil fly straight into Tijeras Pass between the Sandias and Manzanos.
Good job but at 2:17 I think he said "the closest" rather than "the shortest"
indeed. Good for the algoritm though.
And just a bit later states cell yet space is in captions...
No. Runway 3 was the closest. The shortest is 12/30
ya, this video is cool (like all the others) but there's several caption errors
Nice to hear they took Bugs Bunny's advice and toined left at Albaquoikee
Loved the overlay you added, nice work with the graphics and content as always.
Much appreciated!
My wife and I were one of the 128 souls on board. We pull around Albuquerque Valley for estimate at least 20 minutes. We dumped fuel.
I am a loyal AA lifetime Platinum with 2.5 million passenger miles.( My father flew 27 years for American.)First engine loss I’ve been in. I Was in the emergency exit seat 14f. As we lifted off the ground at maybe 200 feet up, that right engine suddenly shuddered and shook. Our angle of attack was roughly maintained but our climb rate seem to really drop. The aircraft seems sluggish like a big pig. Somewhat ominous was there was no communication from the cockpit for perhaps at least a minute. Obviously they were really busy upfront.
They were certainly busy. Losing an engine is something that we all train for, but would be a surprise for any crew. You didn’t dump any fuel however. The A319/320/321 doesn’t have the ability to dump fuel.
I would love to know how you dumped fuel on a small aircraft.
@@TB-um1xz the A319 doesn't have a fuel dump option. They either circled until down to landing weight or they landed overweight Mr. Know It All with A Snarky Response.
lol - fuel dump?
You're hilarious 😂
As one of the souls that was on board, this was the worst 30 minutes of my life. The attendants seemed scared, there was only one communication from the cockpit, and the final right turn made me question if we'd land. I'm not knowledgeable like most commenters here. How much danger were we truly in? Experience after was pretty awful and I have little desire to ever fly on American again.
You honestly weren’t in much danger, airplane mechanic here. Most of the larger jets you’ll encounter will run and fly safely on just one engine. It’s engineered that way to get people to the ground safely, as it did in your case.
An engine failure is almost a non-issue. That's one of the reasons there are two engines. Certainly nothing against American. Every airline has engine failures. Abnormal, yes, unsafe, no. Pilots are well trained and experienced at this level of flying. Please think of this next time you see a pilot group picketing or on strike for better compensation and work rules that promote their fitness for duty and well being.
You were not in any real danger.
I appreciate all of the responses here!
Not that much. Airplanes can stay in the air with one engine
is the engine still attached to the air craft????
next issue>>>pic: we have smoke in the cabin
same atc: are they cigars or weed?
To be fair, the pilot did say "We lost an engine".
Our Baby buses at my airline have been experiencing engine failures flying out of Albuquerque with our baby buses regularly enough that we had GE engineers in our hanger looking into it.. the 737s have no issues with the same engine ... weird
Any suspicions so far as to what’s causing it?
@@mgtowacademy8433 Honestly no clue, last I heard they were looking into the bank angles and the shape of the aircraft/cowls effect on the turbine because this specific airport requires a bank and decent positive attitude to avoid hitting a nearby mountain.. but when they send us a "revision" Ill update here lol
Great job by ATC & crew.
Good grief, leave them alone, tower! Give ‘em a straight-in for the longest runway, let them run checklists, and for pete’s sake they’ll get you fuel and souls aboard when (if) they have a chance.
Is it possible the video was edited so that silences were cut out?
@@ryanthomas2472 Aviate, navigate, communicate. In that order.
It's the way US ATC is. Americans are obsessed with procedure to the point that the procedure becomes more important than the goal it's trying to achieve. That's why American ATC is so intrusive and at the same time so sloppy. Compare this with the Thompson bird strike engine loss comms. ruclips.net/video/9KhZwsYtNDE/видео.html
The pilots needn’t respond and can ask ATC to leave them alone if they found it unhelpful. If they feel they’re being distracted they should voice that so they can then focus on aviating. Other pilots have done this and asked for no comms until they contact them.
Also lots of silences provided by the ATC have been edited out of the video so viewers aren’t sitting through minutes of silence.
Nice job by ATC, but...brevity...is...key.
ATC needed to SHUT UP. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. He should know that coordinating with ATC is the last thing the pilots are worried about right now.
I was literally yelling "Shut up!" at my tv. Yeeesh.
….says the Keyboard Warrior.
Nice to see VAS posting a video with audio for a change! Alan Crane.
Whenever ATC talks, I picture Don Knotts holding a microphone😳!
I don't know Airbus well but, you can tell if in an engine is separated because there will be no N1/N2 readings because the sensors aren't attached.
@@RLTtizME Is weird your way of referring to people who are educated?
That wouldn’t tell you if the engine separated from the aircraft. You would probably just get a bunch of amber XXXs on your engine display. Still wouldn’t confirm anything. I guess a flight attendant would be able to tell you if the thing was just gone.
@@RLTtizMEOr a pilot...
@@321captain3 Nope, if the sensors are gone on boeing, you get null readings.
@@RLTtizME If you say so M9.
That seems like an odd question...correct me if I'm wrong but engines don't tend to fall off when they fail, do they?
Not unless they explode.
Rarely but see American Airlines Flight 191.
Usually not, but they *are* designed to break away when vibrations would otherwise risk damaging the wing and aircraft.
I think the important thing to understand is that engines do fall off.
Controllers are also equites to ask the question based on our procedures. Because of DC9 aircraft who lost engines in the 90’s
I lost track of the time that the controller advised the weather as "light/moderate/heavy" - was he just "covering all of the bases" or is there a reason to use this terminology?
It's most likely because of the area of coverage being 13 miles across it ranged from light to heavy, with areas of moderate in there as well, so he was letting the pilot know that, though he should have just said, "Large area of weather with light to heavy precipitation" in an abbreviated fashion because the pilots are focused on flying the planes so they are only really listening half way. Thought it seemed that the controller was more rattled by this than the flight crew.
This is right in the middle of our monsoon season. Thunderstorms are common in the afternoon, and the weather quickly changes from light to moderate to heavy inside the span of a few minutes, and over the course of a few miles. That is more than likely what was going on.
After we landed on the runway, we were immediately in a downpour. We then had to wait at the gate until the wind died down for them to bring out the jet bridge.
When he said he wanted to continue present heading, that pointed him right at the weather. Airplanes and weather don’t go well
To everyone getting on ATC about asking questions, that’s their job. If you’re not ready to deal with increased comm from declaring an emergency then don’t. Plane won’t fall out of the sky with one engine failure. Run your checklists, request new vectors if you need them, and fly the plane.
Many of these videos seem to show pilots not being assertive enough. It’s not “I think we need to return”, it should be “I’m turning left/right, maintaining xxxxft…” Maybe they’re trying to be polite or something but if you’ve had an emergency and have called mayday then the sky is yours. No need to ask to jettison, no need to ask for permission for anything. I’m turning back, empty the sky for me.
"Is the engine still attached to the aircraft" You really don't want to hear that.
But an important question when the initial mayday call says "We've lost our right engine".
I think the controller asked that to help determine how much if any debris (FOD) would be on the runway after 2684 took off.
Nice job on all parts
Interesting that I cant find this incident at The Aviation Herald
I thought I heard the pilot report he was at 1000 feet. That is impossible there as the lowest terrain (the Rio Grande) is just under 5000 feet.
At 3:21 I heard “there’s a big cell in front of us”
It should be, cell means heavy weather in this context
Light... moderate... heavy precip?
Yeah, that threw me off too. Which one is it?! 😂 There’s a big difference!
In Albuquerque, in August, it's the middle of our monsoon season. It is quite common to have all three in the span of a few minutes and over the course of a few miles.
@@ABQSentinel I didn’t know Albuquerque had a monsoon season. Interesting!
@@iananderson8363 Oh yeah! It's a real pain in the ass if you're flying GA. I've probably had 50% of my flights cancelled, in August, because of developing thunderstorms.
That is a pretty common radio transmission. Basically tells you to use your weather radar and relieves ATC of its responsibility.
So they were working to set up for Rwy 3 and then changed to 8?
Runway 3 is 10,000 feet long. Runway 8 is 13,793 feet long. However, the plane was south of the airport and Runway 3 is a better alignment for a south approach. Runway 8 / 26 is east / west. The east side of the airport is problematic because there are mountains. Runway 3 gives a long approach over the valley. Runway 8 (west approach) is over the West Mesa and then over the valley. Both 3 and 8 can have approaches that are 40+ miles over flat terrain.
@@buckhorncortez I’ve flown in there many times in my airliner. My issue was that we may be missing some coms as they swapped back and forth several times. It’s not something you want to do at the last minute. It would be a reduced flap landing. Do the longest runway would be the near runway.
Who is using Stingray callsign these days? Via Air shut down in 2019...
Looks like they changed to Sterling Airways and retained their Stingray callsign, I was wondering the same thing.
Any news on what happened after landing?
They taxied to the gate & de-planed safely.
They found the engine and reattached it
I'm guessing the controller got a round of applause for his first emergency and then sent on break so he could find other people to talk to.
At one point there were 140 souls on board, later on 128. Did 12 people bail out?
I thought it was 140 minutes of fuel, not souls that he said initially.
I always wonder, don't they have the souls on board from the start when given a passenger manifest? It always seems like that they are looking for the number.
They do but it has absolutely nothing to do with their primary goal of flying a broken airplane and getting it on the ground safely. A common theme in these videos is how distracting this question is to crews that are already task-saturated. If ATC really needs to know this info, they have AA dispatch on speed dial.
Atc doesn’t have that number. Only the airlines
ABQ is a level 8. FAA academy grads don't go there right off the bat, meaning he had to be at a lower level/less traffic airport first.
Jesus, this controller needs to settle down. I understand that he wants to get the emergency aircraft in quick, but there's a lot of checklists and setting up to do with an engine failure. Put em in a box pattern, don't badger the pilots, and they will get to you when they're ready to head in.
Overall a good job..... but , The plane said they needed to return immediately.... apparently, they decided to delay and run checklists. No problem with that, but it would have been better if they notified the tower of that. It did become obvious later on, however.
Standard procedure, declare intention to come back right away, then gain control and determine if can run checklists.
How do you know what the “plane said?!” 🤣🤦♂️
Since you don’t know, the plane immediately pulled up ECAM actions for right engine failure, including the checklists (automatically) which the pilots can perform and progress through on the display.
It’s not HAL 9000 saying “land now, Dave” 🤣
They have to perform the checklists, and some items may be critical to landing, including things like limited braking/ anti-skid, etc depending on the failures. If you’re landing at night, on a contaminated runway, etc, that could be a huge deal.
They always perform the checklists, unless the aircraft is out of control or dead stick.
Listen to all of these mayday videos, pilots almost always have to request delay vectors to run checklists. 👍
Totally agree, this is biggest thing I see from all of these videos on the channel. Ask for what you want, which in 90% of cases, is a plan for making more time. Not "We need to come back to the airport." No, that's not at all what you want right now.
Nice job by all.
Did tower really ask if the engine is still attached? Bruh lol
Yeah that was weird. Someone’s been watching too many “mayday” RUclips videos
@@inshallamiami that air traffic controller is one of us apparently. 🤣
This new generation of controllers.., at times - can be really scary!
"this is totally gonna be on VASaviation tomorrow" says the ATC in their head, probably.
I assumed they wanted to know if they needed to inspect the runway or not. And they did inspect it to be safe. That was my guess but I m just "a passenger" on these videos.
A lot of engine issues lately with various aircraft.
When aircraft sid idle for two years, in some cases, and all airlines are short maintainers and flight crews stuff happens. My son is a maintainer for private jets. He has friends in the commercial industry. Those folks have very tough jobs led by company leaders who are not necessarily aviator enthusiast.
Light/moderate/heavy precipitation. Really? Which one is it!?
In Albuquerque, in August, it's the middle of our monsoon season. So it is not uncommon to have all three at the same time over the course of a few miles (and in the span of a few minutes).
I was on that flight and after we landed we were not allowed to go to the gate for several minutes because a significant microburst made it unsafe for the ramp personnel to bring us in according to the pilot.
2:30 is just weird. Is the engine still attached to the aircraft? Is this ATC first day on the job?
The pilot did say he lost the engine lol
“Can the passengers seated in the exit row verify that the engine is still attached”?
He’s required to ask.
They immediately give them a right turn over the dead engine at 0:49 then rethink it at 7:30 - I'm just a curious pax, appreciate insight.
Their immediate concern is traffic clearance and avoidance - shortly after a mayday, everything is a bit chaotic. The pilots know they should avoid turning into a dead engine, but honestly with the flight protections on the A320 family (I know this was a 319) you really don’t have to worry about that as much.
It was more of a gut reaction by the controller - that’s his immediate job, and the crews immediate job is to fly the plane (how they see fit/safe.) This is probably how it would work out 9 out of 10 times in this case.
ATC needs to learn to listen. Seriously.
Silences have been edited out… so there were times he waited a while.
That’s an AIRBUS 😉
Aircraft callsign “stingray” are gov cellphone surveillance / tracking.
Lol
@@addsub49 seriously
From Wiki for VIA Air
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ViaAir
@@John-Andersen “Mr. Anderson”
wrong. The third word in that article says, “WAS” and then if you read further, “CEASED OPERATIONS 2019.”
At least read the article you are referencing first.
Attention to detail.
Okay. Source?
The captain answered we don't know we can't see it that's why you have your flight attendants and that's why the windows are always kept open so they can see if any problems are occurring at the engines...
The poor crew couldn’t even get a break 😂 controller wouldn’t even leave them alone
I am not a pilot but I am guessing ATC is a greenhorn, still great job, as long as everyone goes home, it is always a great job.
Agreed. Doesn't seem like the most experienced ATC around, but he got the plane on the ground, and as long as he does that, the rest is mostly style points.
He is not a greenhorn. Has lots of experience. But you are also only hearing 1/4 of what he is doing. He has a supervisor on the phone, the approach controller in his ear and the ground controller trying to yell to get the info for the emergency vehicles.
@@wendysmith2411 and the silences have been edited out of the video
@@wendysmith2411 Agreed, nothing about this tells me “rookie” at all, and his vectors and visual references / directions were VERY fast - you don’t see that with newbies lol.
@@wendysmith2411 hiiii Wendyyyyyy! - JF
Why did he ask If it was still attached?
Because the pilot said he lost the engine, instead of saying he had an engine failure. Took him literally at his word. It's not impossible for the engine to fall off, there is at least one time ot has happened as the result of a repair error.
@@tpspc03 In extreme cases of vibration they are designed to detach rather than shake the wing to pieces.
@@tpspc03 I have heard pilots report the loss of an engine quite often, but never heard ATC asking that question.
'Cause he didn't know and wanted to
normally when a crew says standby the controller provides a moment of silence..... this guy acknowledged the standby and immediately asked the next question. I'm not sure he understood the term standby. Good job by ATC but sometimes the best thing to do is shut the.... up.
Some parts may be trimmed
Silences are trimmed. So that can’t be accurately determined.
@@VASAviation Thanks victor. I find myself getting emotional during these videos.
Sudden wondering: Why are ATC that insistent on the counted souls on board?
I mean: It would be WAY easier to make a sign-off, just before disconnecting the airplane from the gate, writing how many souls the aircraft have on board.
1. It is a way better moment to do it.
2. Nobody is going to leave or enter the plane, once it is rolling on the tarmac.
Because they use souls for people alive in the aircraft
It's protocol
Remember that airliners aren’t the only planes in the sky. General aviation has no dispatch sheet or something like that to sign off on the number of souls so asking that question to everyone makes sure they know it (when to count the bodies if it crashes).
They have to ask about fuel on board and souls on board. I know the SOB because I write it down and it’s on a piece of paper right in front of me. Fuel on board in minutes is super easy because you just look at the fuel on board on the upper ECAM and turn it into minutes. 15,000 lbs of fuel equals 150 minutes of fuel on board.
@@321captain3 i know, but *why* is the protocol like that? It seems ineffective when the number is already established when the plane is leaving the airport.
@@flayed123 i know that. Read my comment again
Congrats to the pilot on correct mayday call.
Huh? He had an engine fail on takeoff, it wasn’t an “option” to declare an emergency. 🙈🤣
@@EstorilEm This references that American pilots usually tend to use "declaring an emergency" instead of a mayday call
@@lyaneris I mean, per FAA "A pilot who encounters a Distress condition should declare an emergency by beginning the initial communication with the word “Mayday,” preferably repeated three times. For an Urgency condition, the word “Pan‐Pan” should be used in the same manner."
This is how pilots are trained, the phraseology has changed over the years, but there's nothing to "congratulate" the pilot for...
Also I believe you're confusing two totally different situations and conditions - pilots can say "mayday" or "pan pan" etc, while others may be in a situation where they declare an emergency. For example a fuel situation may prompt a discussion with ATC that gets to a point where ATC asks for clarification "are you declaring an emergency?" or "fuel emergency" in that situation... doesn't mean they have to respond with "ROGER, MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY I'M OUT OF GAS!" lol.
Many such incidents happen all the time; "declaring an emergency" is usually the result of an ongoing situation. A non-safe gear indication which has to be troubleshooted first, oil or fuel pressure problems requiring ECAM actions or something like that - they may be talking to ATC for 10 minutes before it reaches the point where they actually have to declare an emergency. Those situations are all very different than an immediate incident which requires instant priority communication with ATC. Both are correct in their respective situations.
@@EstorilEm I don't feel like arguing. Sounds like you understood what OP meant, which was what I referenced, so I'm out of here.
I do now the differences, and I do know how it is often handled in the US vs Europe.
@@lyaneris Awhs, okay then. Sounds more like you just realized you’re wrong. 🙈 Carry on captain.
Sorry guys. An AA ground employee told me they dumped fuel. My bad. “Trust but verify”.
Too much talking by ATC
128 for. What a tragedy!
Was averted.
The aliens from pluto said "take us to your leader!"
The ATC probably is new judging by asking if the engine actually detached. Ultimately it doesn't really matter, but nice of him knows the plane should only turn towards the good engine.
The ATC probably heard of the November 2007 incident of Nationwide Airlines in Cape Town.
It had an engine separation on rotation in a Boeing 737-200.
The flight landed safety in hectic IMC conditions.
I know the controller. Work with him every day. He’s been doing the job longer than I’ve been alive
What ATC asked if engine is still intact lol??
Maybe some melatonin and/or ketamine for the controller?
Nah, none of that is needed. Just switch to decaf 🤣
Jesse, Jane’s death was not your fault
A US pilot that actually called "mayday, mayday, mayday"!
Buncha armchair pilots in the comments section currently (and I'm one of them), but the ATC handling this emergency does sound a little... inexperienced, what with the "is the engine still attached to the aircraft", and the lack of brevity, and several other things.
At the very least, they should maybe switch to Decaf, and make sure they're getting enough sleep.
Surely he was asking about the engine attacjment to work out how throughly they needed to check the departure runway for debris?🤔
@@2lefThumbs It's literally the first time I've heard an ATC controller ask that when handling an emergency, so I took it as a sign of inexperience.
@@44R0Ndin I wasn't picking a fight, but that seemed to be his motivation here to my ear👍
Is it because the radio operator said "we lost an engine"? Colloquially, we know it means that an engine has stopped functioning or ar least stopped producing useful power but it could be argued that if you say "we've lost an engine" it could be understood as the engine is no longer attached and is now lost. Definitely worth the ATC clarifying as whilst the chances or odds are that it was the first of the scenarios I described, the second isn't impossible and the ATC needs good information to work with from the beginning as he may have needed to alert emergency services to a fallen engine in a populated area.
@@restojon1 That's a good point, but there's two problems I can think of with it.
1. By the time the crew of the aircraft know that they have in fact had an engine physically detach from the vehicle, and have visually confirmed it, meaning all the crew are in agreement of that being the case (so they have their story straight when the accident investigators get involved), then the engine will have already impacted the ground, so telling everyone to duck doesn't really help things (and additionally the air crew probably won't be able to help determine where exactly it landed). This is the usual case for anything of any size that falls off an aircraft and doesn't land on airport property.
2. The way aircraft are built these days, the only situation in which an engine SHOULD depart the vehicle in the first place, would be an extremely violent (and uncontained) failure of said engine, say a turbine disc failure that severs the structural linkages (if that's even possible). In these cases, the crew will likely still only know "that was a really bad noise and jolt felt thru the aircraft, so something really bad happened" and will almost certainly be far too busy trying to land the aircraft as soon as possible and not at all worried about confirming the potential physical loss of an engine or not.
2a. As an addition, I'd like to state the fact that such uncontained engine failures are vanishingly rare, I can count on one hand the number of them that have happened in the last 10 years worldwide in commercial aviation.
ATC: "Is the engine still attached?"
Why would you ask such a silly question? Like they have time to leave the cabin due to engine failure and go check and see if the engine flew off 😆
Not a stupid question. If they had received word from someone else on the aircraft the engine had detached atc would alert ground services to look for this and assist with any impact it may have had on the ground. One less thing to worry about if it’s still attached.
Because we are required to if someone says the LOST and engine
Notify the company? He must of had AQP training recently.
I hate to monday morning quarterback but IMO, not the best ATC work. Controller sounds nervous and unsure of himself. He kept trying to rush the crew to bring it back to the field, never asking them if they were ready for an approach. It's extremely busy up front for us in this situation (especially in a place with high terrain like ABQ), and the last thing we need is to be rushed into an approach we aren't ready for.
Good job by the crew for recognizing that and delaying it until they were ready.
Well perhaps the crew shouldn’t have requested an immediate return then
Let's go
Took 2 long to land..too much talking..
They had to run some significant checklists and runway calculations for landing, the audio gaps were trimmed so it seems like more talking than there actually was.
Semantics......"We've lost our right engine, versus We've just experienced a right engine failure". PILOTS.... 😆👨🏽✈️✈🌍🥇
If you're going to be a critic, it behooves you to learn how to spell correctly, "Symantic's..."? Misspelled and a possessive apostrophe? Do you mean "semantics"?
@@buckhorncortez My spelling really didn't bother you.... but rather my 👨🏽✈️ and Seniority number is what keeps you up at night for sure. 🤔😆✈🌍
Stingray flight could have landed. Why divert them if the other plane just starting to make his way back to the airport?
You don't let a plane land in front of an emergency that could turn inbound anytime and where you have absolutely no idea what their next move will be.
FOD check was needed on runway. You shouldn't land on a runway if there's debris from an engine failure on the runway.
@@jjohn713 -- The American landed on the same runway before they check for debris
The call sign stingray are for gov cellphone surveillance / tracking.
@@SeligTiles stingray is also the call sign for a training squadron of corpus Christi, Texas, coming into a mixed use facility.
BREAKING BAD REFERENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good to see that they have the A team in Albuquerque... If you want to hear a proper example of ATC handling an engine out emergency then go listen to Denver approach work in that UAL 777 earlier this year. But this.. This was awful lol
To be fair, you're comparing a Class Charlie (KABQ) to a Class Bravo (KDEN).
What was awful about this? Sounded like everything was handled fine
You a controller? Ever worked an emergency with 120+ people’s lives in your hands?
Good job FAA. You hired another idiot for the job, definitely not the worse but damn close. I know you cut out the multiple parts that were silence for the video but geez this guy needed to shut up. The aircraft should of been handed off to approach and let them work with the aircraft out not the tower. This dude has got to listen. Multiple times the pilot told him what they wanted and he keep asking away the same questions that the pilot has already given answers to.
Nah, you don’t get to say that if you’ve never worked traffic. We work too damn hard to be called an idiot for safely landing an emergency
@@wiley5oh51 lmao I work at one of the busiest airports in the country/world. Pilot told him multiple times to stand by, bc they have to run their checklists. Did he do that nope just kept on bugging them. I get he's trying to get basic required info but if they need a few mins to run their checklists then give them that time. Plus again he should have handed them off to approach, they shouldn't have stayed on the tower frequency. Seems like he probably hasn't worked an emergency before. Gotta give them a chance to do what they need to do and not chime in begging for info.
That has to be the worst bit of controlling I’ve ever heard. He is an embarrassment to ABQ ATCT. He has since been reassigned and is in remedial training! Hopefully he gets his shit straight before he puts on a headset again!!
Which part are you upset about? I thought they did a reasonable job.
Relax dude, it wasn’t that bad
I literally talked to him on the line like two days ago… he’s a fine controller. He’s a very hyper personality. Get your shit together before commenting on things you’ve never had to work through
The mechanics joke and call that the scarebus. Airbus is junk.