Nice scope selection. :-) I got one of these when they launched, to replace my very old CRT scope. I think these are the perfect choice for a hobbiest maker. Note: The distorted wave you first saw is because you need to adjust the trimmer on the probe when in x10 mode, to get a perfect square wave on the 1Khz test signal. Also, the overshoots you are seeing from your circuit will in some part be due to the nature of the breadboard environment. ie. stray capacitance. Where a scope really becomes crucial in digital design is when you are trying to trace down critical timing issues that are affecting the intended function. Have fun! Being able to see your circuit in operation is awesome eye opening stuff! :-)
Thanks Digicool! I’ll take a look for that trimmer, I’m sure it was all in the documentation I threw aside to start playing. ;-) Need to make up a couple of adapters to let me get at the signal wires easily on the counter boards. Or I may partially solder a fresh one to be sacrificial.
Just a note, the 1 and 10x on the leads is actually supression of the signal. So a 1x is baseline and 10x is supressed signal for lowering external interference noise.
You're gonna have fun with that scope! :P I was hooking mine to all sorts of things when I got mine. Was handy for debuggering when I had I²C issues on a project I worked on a while back.
I spent some time last night just moving the probes around that board seeing how the trace changed under different circumstances. It totally changes your perspective on the circuits when you can see what the lines are doing.
A scope is on the long list, it would be on the short list if I had more cash. It will be almost as good watching you put one to use. Great cameos, Mr. Watts was hilarious. Thanks James
Thanks Jerril! It was a big investment in one go on this hobby, if I had known someone nearby with a scope I might have been tempted to borrow/visit for a while. I’m sure it’s going to be useful though.
I have the 4 channel version and love it, it takes a long time to get used to a digital scope if, like me you only ever had analogue ones. Digital scopes are very clever but always remember what you see is very dependent on how you have set it up. Sometimes I cant believe what Im seeing and revert to my analogue scope but once one comes to grips with these they are amazing
The ground line was attached to a pin header I had poked into the breadboards ground bus. Do I need to do more? Thinking about it, the ground was on the opposite side of the board from where the chips are taking ground, should I expect to see less artefacts if I move it closer?
@@weirdboyjim I was actually trying to make a joke about you saying you probably got a good grounding from watching other people use these things :) I have very similar experience with oscilloscopes. I was very briefly shown how to use one years ago, and then more recently I've been watching youtube stuff with people using them
Ahh, sorry for not getting that. Not always easy to communicate humor over text. Since recording the video i've been poking a few things with the scope, makes me feel like a real electronics hobyist.
You should run the calibration and also calibrate the probes to get rid of the spikes. Just ignore that the 1x switch exists, leave it on 10x (1x can mess with your signals). Try removing the ground clamp and hook and attach the short ground probe (the spring like thing). Even 10 cm of ground wire can trick you into thinking the signal is crap. Everytime there's a problem with a breadboards it's either bad ground or missing caps.
Thanks for the hints, I hope you are finding the videos interesting. I’ve already switched to using the 10x mode, i’ll take a look at the ground probe. I’ve already recorded a video exploring my cpu build with the scope, in that one you’ll see I’ve picked up on some of this already, this unboxing was my very first experience with a modern scope.
Hey nice scope man, I'm jealous! You should've given me a call if you want some help/advice with analog :) Definitely checking out the clocks are getting through relatively cleanly all over the circuit is a great sanity check, but it's actually the second tier of debugging. The first thing is even more basic: check that the power supply is clean to all devices. Any resistance in your supply will mean not only will the +ve at the devices dip (usually in time with the clocks because they consume most power when switching state), but also the ground will rise. So if you ground the probe at the power supply's -ve and probe around with +/- rails and on the devices themselves, you can often find a few problems. As someone else suggested, getting some caps close to the devices will help reduce the effect. One last thing, I wouldn't obsess too much about the squareness of any digital waveforms. Unless you're running at a very low clock rate, the waveforms will diverge from perfectly square no matter how good the power supply is and how low the parasitic capacitance is. The main concern is that the transition from state to state is clean. If the signal takes a very long time to rise/fall it can create timing problems, but a bit of overshoot or undershoot isn't too concerning.
Thanks Rich. Checking the power lines with the meter has always been my first port of call but I’m keen to see what those lines look like on the scope. I have a list of basics to check before I start on the suspect logic lines, not least is ground on the registers boards relative to ground on the pipeline and bus control, there are enough connections between them that there may be some floating.
Thanks for great videos, so inspiring! I am thinking about getting a scope and have been looking at this model and its four-channel cousin. Apart from SBC design I want to be able to use it for VGA signal debugging when I create my own VGA circuit. Do you feel that the specs of your scope in terms of sample rate and clock frequency are enough to monitor such high speeds (25 MHz) or would you in hindsight have gotten a faster one?
From my experience I've need hit anything where the speed as been a concern. I have hit a couple of places where extra channels would have been handy, working out how to use the external trigger alleviates that a bit.
If I was smarter at the beginning 50mhz would probably have been more than enough, it’s just that some of the chips can respond very quickly so I need to be able to spot very small glitches. I may of course be wrong about that ;-)
@@weirdboyjim So Jason Chonko from Siglent.com emailed me and said, "The pulsing On/Off indicates that there is power on the main. There is no control setting for this function." Their suggestion on Facebook was, "You can unplug the unit to get the pulse to stop. There is no other control for the power button backlight." In the end they were pleasant to talk with and put in a Feature Request to give a setting to turn it off in the future.
This just isn't fair. I've had that EXACT scope sitting in my Amazon wish list for 2 months!! I was hoping to leave it for my wife to buy me at Christmas but now I want it sooner! Also the Scope is supposed to have a built in web server. You can probably setup a screen capture to overlay on your videos. You probably found that already.
There is usb and Ethernet on the back. Can’t get the usb drivers to work on my PC though (I’m running windows 7 for some old software reasons). I’m hoping to get the software running though as it will make for a better screen overlay than trying to point a webcam at the screen.
@@weirdboyjim I turned my back on microsoft about 10 years ago now, and never looked back. ...wouldn't even start win in a virtual machine :P I love my arch linux and i'm thankful for "wine" so i can run my old windows stuff and with dxvk implemented over the last year i can even run newer games ;) There is a lot less cursing and senseless waiting in front of my computer now -.-
Nice power adaptor for if you get any visitors from Germany. I was thinking "cor blimry! Experience wouldn't be my problem.... cost would be.... I'll stick to my old analogue".... but 300 quid isn't that bad.... if I didn't have that mini-lathe out in thr shed, I could easily have one of those. Not a bad scope... you should be driving it like a pro in no time.
Yeah, not as bad as I feared, especially remembering that the 3 main lines I’m probing there are connected to bits of wire about a metre long. Zoomed out it looks like sharp glitches, but if you zoom in it’s all softer variations on the line. Looks terrible if I take the caps out though.
amzn.to/36HFT3l (Amazon UK)
amzn.to/2JNUVeK (Amazon USA)
Thanks. Nice to see how it's used for things other than radio-related testing.
Glad you found it interesting! Starting to think about getting a 4 channel one now though.
Nice scope selection. :-) I got one of these when they launched, to replace my very old CRT scope. I think these are the perfect choice for a hobbiest maker. Note: The distorted wave you first saw is because you need to adjust the trimmer on the probe when in x10 mode, to get a perfect square wave on the 1Khz test signal. Also, the overshoots you are seeing from your circuit will in some part be due to the nature of the breadboard environment. ie. stray capacitance. Where a scope really becomes crucial in digital design is when you are trying to trace down critical timing issues that are affecting the intended function. Have fun! Being able to see your circuit in operation is awesome eye opening stuff! :-)
Thanks Digicool! I’ll take a look for that trimmer, I’m sure it was all in the documentation I threw aside to start playing. ;-) Need to make up a couple of adapters to let me get at the signal wires easily on the counter boards. Or I may partially solder a fresh one to be sacrificial.
Yay! You got a scope!!! I wish you much joy in using it, and much success in debugging your cpu anomalies:) I cant wait to find out what you discover.
Thanks Seon! And thanks again for the advice. Currently working out the right way to deal with my complete lack of test point foresight.
Just a note, the 1 and 10x on the leads is actually supression of the signal. So a 1x is baseline and 10x is supressed signal for lowering external interference noise.
Indeed. another I didn't realize is you only get the full rated bandwidth of the scope in 10x mode.
You're gonna have fun with that scope! :P I was hooking mine to all sorts of things when I got mine. Was handy for debuggering when I had I²C issues on a project I worked on a while back.
I spent some time last night just moving the probes around that board seeing how the trace changed under different circumstances. It totally changes your perspective on the circuits when you can see what the lines are doing.
A scope is on the long list, it would be on the short list if I had more cash. It will be almost as good watching you put one to use. Great cameos, Mr. Watts was hilarious. Thanks James
Thanks Jerril! It was a big investment in one go on this hobby, if I had known someone nearby with a scope I might have been tempted to borrow/visit for a while. I’m sure it’s going to be useful though.
Yeah... all the brst RUclips channels have a funny cameo or two.
Waiting for someone to comment on the cat. She really did dive into the box the minute I put it down. Had to pause recording, it was quite noisy.
I have the 4 channel version and love it, it takes a long time to get used to a digital scope if, like me you only ever had analogue ones. Digital scopes are very clever but always remember what you see is very dependent on how you have set it up. Sometimes I cant believe what Im seeing and revert to my analogue scope but once one comes to grips with these they are amazing
I didn't have much in the way of scope experience before this one. I'd definitely like to get a 4 channel one in the future.
As I understand it, a good grounding is indeed very important to get a usable signal!
The ground line was attached to a pin header I had poked into the breadboards ground bus. Do I need to do more? Thinking about it, the ground was on the opposite side of the board from where the chips are taking ground, should I expect to see less artefacts if I move it closer?
@@weirdboyjim I was actually trying to make a joke about you saying you probably got a good grounding from watching other people use these things :) I have very similar experience with oscilloscopes. I was very briefly shown how to use one years ago, and then more recently I've been watching youtube stuff with people using them
Ahh, sorry for not getting that. Not always easy to communicate humor over text. Since recording the video i've been poking a few things with the scope, makes me feel like a real electronics hobyist.
Yes, needs some decoupling caps added there
Thanks Scott! Easier said than done on a breadboard, although I have seen sockets with a 100nf cap built in.
You should run the calibration and also calibrate the probes to get rid of the spikes.
Just ignore that the 1x switch exists, leave it on 10x (1x can mess with your signals).
Try removing the ground clamp and hook and attach the short ground probe (the spring like thing).
Even 10 cm of ground wire can trick you into thinking the signal is crap.
Everytime there's a problem with a breadboards it's either bad ground or missing caps.
Thanks for the hints, I hope you are finding the videos interesting. I’ve already switched to using the 10x mode, i’ll take a look at the ground probe. I’ve already recorded a video exploring my cpu build with the scope, in that one you’ll see I’ve picked up on some of this already, this unboxing was my very first experience with a modern scope.
I really like this series, especially the videos about the pipeline.
Hey nice scope man, I'm jealous! You should've given me a call if you want some help/advice with analog :) Definitely checking out the clocks are getting through relatively cleanly all over the circuit is a great sanity check, but it's actually the second tier of debugging. The first thing is even more basic: check that the power supply is clean to all devices. Any resistance in your supply will mean not only will the +ve at the devices dip (usually in time with the clocks because they consume most power when switching state), but also the ground will rise. So if you ground the probe at the power supply's -ve and probe around with +/- rails and on the devices themselves, you can often find a few problems. As someone else suggested, getting some caps close to the devices will help reduce the effect.
One last thing, I wouldn't obsess too much about the squareness of any digital waveforms. Unless you're running at a very low clock rate, the waveforms will diverge from perfectly square no matter how good the power supply is and how low the parasitic capacitance is. The main concern is that the transition from state to state is clean. If the signal takes a very long time to rise/fall it can create timing problems, but a bit of overshoot or undershoot isn't too concerning.
Thanks Rich. Checking the power lines with the meter has always been my first port of call but I’m keen to see what those lines look like on the scope. I have a list of basics to check before I start on the suspect logic lines, not least is ground on the registers boards relative to ground on the pipeline and bus control, there are enough connections between them that there may be some floating.
Thanks for great videos, so inspiring! I am thinking about getting a scope and have been looking at this model and its four-channel cousin. Apart from SBC design I want to be able to use it for VGA signal debugging when I create my own VGA circuit. Do you feel that the specs of your scope in terms of sample rate and clock frequency are enough to monitor such high speeds (25 MHz) or would you in hindsight have gotten a faster one?
I ordered a SDS1202X-E today. It will be infinitely better than not having one at all I think.
From my experience I've need hit anything where the speed as been a concern. I have hit a couple of places where extra channels would have been handy, working out how to use the external trigger alleviates that a bit.
I love my 50MHz Siglent!
If I was smarter at the beginning 50mhz would probably have been more than enough, it’s just that some of the chips can respond very quickly so I need to be able to spot very small glitches. I may of course be wrong about that ;-)
@@weirdboyjim But you can view 100 MHz signals easily. My 50 I can only see 25 MHz clearly. :-)
Question about your scope, does the power button light fade in and out with it is powered off?
It does, seems a bit weird but I guess it's a reminder that "off" isn't entirely "off" with most things these days.
@@weirdboyjim So Jason Chonko from Siglent.com emailed me and said, "The pulsing On/Off indicates that there is power on the main. There is no control setting for this function." Their suggestion on Facebook was, "You can unplug the unit to get the pulse to stop. There is no other control for the power button backlight." In the end they were pleasant to talk with and put in a Feature Request to give a setting to turn it off in the future.
This just isn't fair. I've had that EXACT scope sitting in my Amazon wish list for 2 months!! I was hoping to leave it for my wife to buy me at Christmas but now I want it sooner!
Also the Scope is supposed to have a built in web server. You can probably setup a screen capture to overlay on your videos. You probably found that already.
There is usb and Ethernet on the back. Can’t get the usb drivers to work on my PC though (I’m running windows 7 for some old software reasons). I’m hoping to get the software running though as it will make for a better screen overlay than trying to point a webcam at the screen.
@@weirdboyjim I turned my back on microsoft about 10 years ago now, and never looked back. ...wouldn't even start win in a virtual machine :P
I love my arch linux and i'm thankful for "wine" so i can run my old windows stuff and with dxvk implemented over the last year i can even run newer games ;)
There is a lot less cursing and senseless waiting in front of my computer now -.-
I was a calibration tech and it was cool seeing an O'scope
Glad you found it interesting! Were you laughing when I got the calibration test wrong first time?
@@weirdboyjim Not at all the probes always need the tweak to normalize the square wave. I did my PMEL in Air Force some 40 years ago. My!
Nice power adaptor for if you get any visitors from Germany.
I was thinking "cor blimry! Experience wouldn't be my problem.... cost would be.... I'll stick to my old analogue".... but 300 quid isn't that bad.... if I didn't have that mini-lathe out in thr shed, I could easily have one of those. Not a bad scope... you should be driving it like a pro in no time.
Indeed. I have relatives in Spain, so I keep a few adaptors around anyway.
Great thanks for the video, close to picking up a scope too as i mentioned on seons stream last night. Just torn on which one now, choices choices lol
Thanks Colin! Let me know what you get!
James Sharman I bought rigol ds1054z should be here Friday :-)
Nice, so I can be Jelly of your 4 channels and you can be jelly of my 200mhz :-)
Pretty clean for a breadboard though
Yeah, not as bad as I feared, especially remembering that the 3 main lines I’m probing there are connected to bits of wire about a metre long. Zoomed out it looks like sharp glitches, but if you zoom in it’s all softer variations on the line. Looks terrible if I take the caps out though.