Hey Dulles, wonderful illustration of these. It is fascinating how a simple word, turn of phrase, reference to a thing can touch off so many ideas and take one seemingly far away from the original thought...even with a tenuous thread connecting them in one's own quirky way. Funny too, I go for long evening walks myself and also experience those flights of fancy, NE running free, though also since I've lived in the same neighborhood since childhood, there's the SI thing interweaving of seeing the old houses, buildings, parks I remember from being 11 years old, and all the memories that ensue....I'm naturally going to be referring to this all the more on future walks. Thanks as always! P.S. Ah...dont even get me started on music....oh wait...😅 -Carm
Ne is madness and Fi keeps it under tight control. Just letting Ne have its little tantrum is such a relief. And yes for nostalgia, well you know the effect a piece of music, or even just looking at an album or book cover or a tree or building (or person) can have... I can't believe you've lived in the same place all these years! The sense of continuity and observed change of a single place in the passing of time -- I think that's become rare in our modern world, which is a shame
@@dulles1969Have been mulling over this a bit and yes...I guess that really is rare...at least aside from small town living...living pretty much in the same spot ones whole life. It really is though the old the more things change the more they stay the same thing....A real sense of expansiveness too overall. Sister Bufo P. said something about me "leaning into my SI" more and I suppose this contributes a lot to that...🙂
@@gorvo31 I think it can be sort of a blessing if you draw strength from the familiarity of your surroundings -- and sort of a curse when everything's changing. Our city in the leafy suburbs has been seeing major redevelopment, with small houses being torn down for large, soulless McMansions that build to the maximum allowable size of the lot. (of course, any new builds probably have been called "soulless" and worse for centuries...) The modern style is white barnboard-style siding, black windows and flat roofs -- the latter not exactly a good idea in snow country, but oh well....
My understanding of the functions is based on the idea that introversion and extraversion aren't solely about how much social contact people like. Introversion means internal and personal processing, whereas extraversion is external and impersonal processing of information and decision making. Introverted functions focus on the person views and understanding of something and is where the person prefers to figure out a topic without external influence (or not as much). For extraverted the processing is more focused outwards and is more based on the views and understandings of others and the wider community. It's about how mental resources are used. Some things are processed personally but it can be mentally cheaper to share the mental load with other individuals or the wider social group. Ne being extraverted (external) is impersonal (though can relate to personal interests and values still) and in essence is a sponge for ideas the wider group has. Someone with higher Ne then Si is taking existing, traditions and values and playing with them to see how they could be adapted or replaced to work better. Si is a way of storing information and important as allows society to have events, ideas, values that are seen important to the everyday running of things. Sometimes things need to be changed which is where Ne comes in though, as Ne is impersonal it doesn't care as much about the value but rather how it works with wider issues and if its still important to keep. Si is about how things connect and what is similar while Ne is about how things *could* relate even if they don't directly seem to at first glance. As with all the functions a balance is needed, its not possible to be constantly changing the way our society is structured. We need tradition and things to be directly connected. But sometimes tradition can become damaging and even toxic if no longer meeting the needs of the individual or group. Ne is fun though, playing with ideas helps me have hope and a sense of joy in my life. It's like an endless sense of possibilities and allows me to have an nuanced view of life. Si is a bit more of a mixed bag but I'm getting better with it as I age and gain more wisdom and maturity. INFP
Totally agree, with extroverted vs. introverted in cognitive functions, which mixes people up. The Jungian concept of introverted functions moving towards the subject (internal), extroverted functions moving towards the object (external). And, totally agree with the way you characterize Ne and Si. I described them differently to try and get at the base experience. How's it manifest in the space between (my) ears? It's gratifying to see we're talking about Ne and Si similarly. We both see the concept is something like this, even when looked at it from different angles and we each describe it in our own words.😃
For me I can't think extraverted intuition, without thinking about Bob Geldof's song Thinking Voyager 2 Type Things. It became kind of a reference point, for when my brain went into Ne, before I knew about the cognitive functions. I could see that the process was similar, but different themes.
Oooh thank you for this! I'm listening right now. I... uh... don't make people suffer my range of musical tastes. (And I just saw the lyric sheet -- it's moving. From his performance as Pink in The Wall to Live Aid, Bob Geldof is a remarkable human being).
Hi Dulles! I love your take on Ne. It reminds me of my old infj friend who described Ne as taffy, you stretch one idea as far as it can possibly go. Like you said the thing itself is more of a placeholder. Funny how we got to the same song "these boots are made for walking", i think of that song every time someone talks about boots 😊 I love cucumber sweaters, i was thinking of woven cucumber skins into a piece of clothing, but that would be pretty cold and slimy, which goes against the poibt of a warm cozy sweater 😂
Haha, that's great Ingrid -- let's add Vondelpete and we'll start a cucumber sweater business with precision assembly from Japan. Cucumber skins meticulously stitched together by cultists, then express shipped fresh for delivery. But let's think bigger than just cukes - there is potential here to corner an entire untapped market for wearable gourds. Loofah vests that exfoliate while worn.😂 Oh I love it, products that the public doesn't yet know it needs! And yes, Ne taffy is a really nice analogy, too... Anyway, thanks for making my evening. Going to be grinning over this for a long time...
I learnt a lot from your last video on Si and this one.... I'm curious as to how this would manifest differently in an Ne first slot type vs. an Ne second slot? I know you can speak the clearest from your own perspective...but I'd love to hear your take on this. (Asking this question as a potential ENFP... I'm kinda clueless about my type though if I'm being honest. Not that clueless but I'll probably never be certain).
@@kaleidoscopicvoid Hmm...ok let me try....I think i don't have a problem of being indecisive if i am confident in what I know. I have a clear understanding of when I'm unprepared and BSing myself. The problem is that what i 'know' never seems to be enough to take action for the sake of it....and i suspect I'm always trying to understand MORE. If however, i know that something matters to me, then at least i don't suffer from this issue. And usually being thrown into the middle of things...can be temporarily energizing for me. It does overwhelm me if i feel out of control...but if the situation demands an action, then I can get on with it. But i can get stuck as easily if those situations do not present themselves directly. So there's push and pull of inertia, impulsivity and occasionally surprising myself when I'm in the middle of things with my decicivensess.
I’m an INFP and my wife is an ENFP. One way in which I’ve come to see the difference is in how we view and create art (written, visual, or in film). I (Fi Ne) tend to create and interpret art as an expression/overflow of my own or someone else’s Fi. For me, art is a way to share meaning. My wife (Ne Fi) tends to use art to better understand/codify her own existing Fi. For her, art is a way to process/create meaning.
I have some diagrams that I drew and was going to talk about as well... but that was just waay too long a video. My own take (interpreting Jung's Chapter X and a shaker full of salt, because I'm making gross assumptions from a couple observations)... To ENFPs (NeFi), novel ideas are everything. I's reinforced by feeling, both as a focal point for ideas and also to help drive their principles forward. They can move from one idea to the next, principle to principle, in a snap. They're clever, engaging, charismatic when it counts. There's a lot of: "Let me tell you about this new big thing!" Emotional, adaptable, sometimes mercurial. Natural explorers and advocates, though not necessarily for any one thing for very long. I'd say ENFPs use Ne correctly and tend to over-use Fi -- they know where, when and how to ideate, not always when it's best to pull back and not let feelings overrun others or cloud good judgment. INFPs (FiNe) have got strong intuition but feeling is in charge, and it's a great big censor, evaluating ideas qualitatively for merit. The huge majority of Ne is junk, so there's a vast amount of pointless feeling about random stuff. In the shower, pondering seriously how it would feel if squirrels really were messengers from god. It makes a thinker mostly detached from advocacy. I'd say they use Fi correctly and tend to over-use Ne -- they know to moderate their feelings on matters and hold space for others. But they don't turn off the endless spigot of ideas, which derail getting things done at all. Non-controversially, "Psychology & Chill w/ Michi" (formerly "Heart of Michi") and Heidi Priebe IMO are solid examples of ENFPs. If you contrast with with RadishRaven and BufoPeriglenes, that sorta calls out differences, maybe? I may be way off the mark, though!
@@dulles1969 That also makes sense, as people say that the second function is what people consider themselves skilled at (asserting ownership more than they necessarily do for the first function, which is more instinctive). Over-indulgence of the second function is probably what happens when people root too much of their identity and focus too much of their time in that area where they feel expertise. I’ve also seen people argue that the third function flavors/guides the second, which I find interesting. That could help explain why ENFPs tend to have more out-there ideas than INFPs, because the INFP NE is guided by familiarity/memory/tradition. Instead of being fully out of the box, it’s often more box-adjacent. Even like your example, it wasn’t squirrels being messengers from purple porcupines who live in underwater bubbles; it was a reimagining of squirrels being messengers of gods, as described in existing myths.
Hey Dulles, wonderful illustration of these. It is fascinating how a simple word, turn of phrase, reference to a thing can touch off so many ideas and take one seemingly far away from the original thought...even with a tenuous thread connecting them in one's own quirky way.
Funny too, I go for long evening walks myself and also experience those flights of fancy, NE running free, though also since I've lived in the same neighborhood since childhood, there's the SI thing interweaving of seeing the old houses, buildings, parks I remember from being 11 years old, and all the memories that ensue....I'm naturally going to be referring to this all the more on future walks. Thanks as always! P.S. Ah...dont even get me started on music....oh wait...😅 -Carm
Ne is madness and Fi keeps it under tight control. Just letting Ne have its little tantrum is such a relief. And yes for nostalgia, well you know the effect a piece of music, or even just looking at an album or book cover or a tree or building (or person) can have...
I can't believe you've lived in the same place all these years! The sense of continuity and observed change of a single place in the passing of time -- I think that's become rare in our modern world, which is a shame
@@dulles1969Have been mulling over this a bit and yes...I guess that really is rare...at least aside from small town living...living pretty much in the same spot ones whole life. It really is though the old the more things change the more they stay the same thing....A real sense of expansiveness too overall. Sister Bufo P. said something about me "leaning into my SI" more and I suppose this contributes a lot to that...🙂
@@gorvo31 I think it can be sort of a blessing if you draw strength from the familiarity of your surroundings -- and sort of a curse when everything's changing. Our city in the leafy suburbs has been seeing major redevelopment, with small houses being torn down for large, soulless McMansions that build to the maximum allowable size of the lot. (of course, any new builds probably have been called "soulless" and worse for centuries...) The modern style is white barnboard-style siding, black windows and flat roofs -- the latter not exactly a good idea in snow country, but oh well....
My understanding of the functions is based on the idea that introversion and extraversion aren't solely about how much social contact people like. Introversion means internal and personal processing, whereas extraversion is external and impersonal processing of information and decision making. Introverted functions focus on the person views and understanding of something and is where the person prefers to figure out a topic without external influence (or not as much). For extraverted the processing is more focused outwards and is more based on the views and understandings of others and the wider community.
It's about how mental resources are used. Some things are processed personally but it can be mentally cheaper to share the mental load with other individuals or the wider social group.
Ne being extraverted (external) is impersonal (though can relate to personal interests and values still) and in essence is a sponge for ideas the wider group has. Someone with higher Ne then Si is taking existing, traditions and values and playing with them to see how they could be adapted or replaced to work better. Si is a way of storing information and important as allows society to have events, ideas, values that are seen important to the everyday running of things. Sometimes things need to be changed which is where Ne comes in though, as Ne is impersonal it doesn't care as much about the value but rather how it works with wider issues and if its still important to keep.
Si is about how things connect and what is similar while Ne is about how things *could* relate even if they don't directly seem to at first glance. As with all the functions a balance is needed, its not possible to be constantly changing the way our society is structured. We need tradition and things to be directly connected. But sometimes tradition can become damaging and even toxic if no longer meeting the needs of the individual or group.
Ne is fun though, playing with ideas helps me have hope and a sense of joy in my life. It's like an endless sense of possibilities and allows me to have an nuanced view of life. Si is a bit more of a mixed bag but I'm getting better with it as I age and gain more wisdom and maturity.
INFP
Totally agree, with extroverted vs. introverted in cognitive functions, which mixes people up. The Jungian concept of introverted functions moving towards the subject (internal), extroverted functions moving towards the object (external).
And, totally agree with the way you characterize Ne and Si. I described them differently to try and get at the base experience. How's it manifest in the space between (my) ears?
It's gratifying to see we're talking about Ne and Si similarly. We both see the concept is something like this, even when looked at it from different angles and we each describe it in our own words.😃
For me I can't think extraverted intuition, without thinking about Bob Geldof's song Thinking Voyager 2 Type Things. It became kind of a reference point, for when my brain went into Ne, before I knew about the cognitive functions. I could see that the process was similar, but different themes.
Oooh thank you for this! I'm listening right now.
I... uh... don't make people suffer my range of musical tastes. (And I just saw the lyric sheet -- it's moving. From his performance as Pink in The Wall to Live Aid, Bob Geldof is a remarkable human being).
Hi Dulles! I love your take on Ne. It reminds me of my old infj friend who described Ne as taffy, you stretch one idea as far as it can possibly go. Like you said the thing itself is more of a placeholder. Funny how we got to the same song "these boots are made for walking", i think of that song every time someone talks about boots 😊 I love cucumber sweaters, i was thinking of woven cucumber skins into a piece of clothing, but that would be pretty cold and slimy, which goes against the poibt of a warm cozy sweater 😂
Haha, that's great Ingrid -- let's add Vondelpete and we'll start a cucumber sweater business with precision assembly from Japan. Cucumber skins meticulously stitched together by cultists, then express shipped fresh for delivery. But let's think bigger than just cukes - there is potential here to corner an entire untapped market for wearable gourds. Loofah vests that exfoliate while worn.😂 Oh I love it, products that the public doesn't yet know it needs!
And yes, Ne taffy is a really nice analogy, too... Anyway, thanks for making my evening. Going to be grinning over this for a long time...
I learnt a lot from your last video on Si and this one.... I'm curious as to how this would manifest differently in an Ne first slot type vs. an Ne second slot? I know you can speak the clearest from your own perspective...but I'd love to hear your take on this.
(Asking this question as a potential ENFP... I'm kinda clueless about my type though if I'm being honest. Not that clueless but I'll probably never be certain).
how does your indecision/ indeterminacy go for you? I mean outside just not sure about your type. Just about life as a whole.
@@kaleidoscopicvoid Hmm...ok let me try....I think i don't have a problem of being indecisive if i am confident in what I know. I have a clear understanding of when I'm unprepared and BSing myself.
The problem is that what i 'know' never seems to be enough to take action for the sake of it....and i suspect I'm always trying to understand MORE. If however, i know that something matters to me, then at least i don't suffer from this issue. And usually being thrown into the middle of things...can be temporarily energizing for me. It does overwhelm me if i feel out of control...but if the situation demands an action, then I can get on with it. But i can get stuck as easily if those situations do not present themselves directly. So there's push and pull of inertia, impulsivity and occasionally surprising myself when I'm in the middle of things with my decicivensess.
I’m an INFP and my wife is an ENFP. One way in which I’ve come to see the difference is in how we view and create art (written, visual, or in film).
I (Fi Ne) tend to create and interpret art as an expression/overflow of my own or someone else’s Fi. For me, art is a way to share meaning.
My wife (Ne Fi) tends to use art to better understand/codify her own existing Fi. For her, art is a way to process/create meaning.
I have some diagrams that I drew and was going to talk about as well... but that was just waay too long a video. My own take (interpreting Jung's Chapter X and a shaker full of salt, because I'm making gross assumptions from a couple observations)...
To ENFPs (NeFi), novel ideas are everything. I's reinforced by feeling, both as a focal point for ideas and also to help drive their principles forward. They can move from one idea to the next, principle to principle, in a snap. They're clever, engaging, charismatic when it counts. There's a lot of: "Let me tell you about this new big thing!" Emotional, adaptable, sometimes mercurial. Natural explorers and advocates, though not necessarily for any one thing for very long. I'd say ENFPs use Ne correctly and tend to over-use Fi -- they know where, when and how to ideate, not always when it's best to pull back and not let feelings overrun others or cloud good judgment.
INFPs (FiNe) have got strong intuition but feeling is in charge, and it's a great big censor, evaluating ideas qualitatively for merit. The huge majority of Ne is junk, so there's a vast amount of pointless feeling about random stuff. In the shower, pondering seriously how it would feel if squirrels really were messengers from god. It makes a thinker mostly detached from advocacy. I'd say they use Fi correctly and tend to over-use Ne -- they know to moderate their feelings on matters and hold space for others. But they don't turn off the endless spigot of ideas, which derail getting things done at all.
Non-controversially, "Psychology & Chill w/ Michi" (formerly "Heart of Michi") and Heidi Priebe IMO are solid examples of ENFPs. If you contrast with with RadishRaven and BufoPeriglenes, that sorta calls out differences, maybe? I may be way off the mark, though!
@@dulles1969 That also makes sense, as people say that the second function is what people consider themselves skilled at (asserting ownership more than they necessarily do for the first function, which is more instinctive). Over-indulgence of the second function is probably what happens when people root too much of their identity and focus too much of their time in that area where they feel expertise.
I’ve also seen people argue that the third function flavors/guides the second, which I find interesting. That could help explain why ENFPs tend to have more out-there ideas than INFPs, because the INFP NE is guided by familiarity/memory/tradition. Instead of being fully out of the box, it’s often more box-adjacent. Even like your example, it wasn’t squirrels being messengers from purple porcupines who live in underwater bubbles; it was a reimagining of squirrels being messengers of gods, as described in existing myths.