"I used to be an atheist, but then my wife turned into christinanity and i had to make a choice between staying an atheist, or getting laid on a regular basis." is all i heard from the first speaker >.
So finely tuned to exist in one minuscule part of the universe which is like saying that you must give me my pension because I went to work for 1 femtosecond.
37:46 _"Imagine how she must have prayed everyday, how she must have beseeched heaven. Imagine for twenty four years and no, no answer at all, nothing! _*_Nothing!_* Goodness me what a moment. It's very satisfying to see a very unfiltered version of the anger he must feel towards religion.
@@LMFAORomania women are treated as property especially daughters. Look them up...all old testament stuff. Like...selling them into slavery, killing them whenever you want...ect. It's all there.
@@at6686 Could it be anger at those who presents the God delusion as something worthwhile to entertain? On what sadistic grounds you have to stand to pretend that what that women went through can be compensated in any way. It's not like she was asked for that bargain.
Hitchens has the patience of Job, lol. Thank you sir for helping me on my journey of letting go of catholicism and instead embracing reality more authentically, and in fact more lovingly.
What’s really scary and alarming is how one can’t see how Hitchens bitch slapped each opponent with pure reason and logic ... to understand how he did it you simply have to say to yourself “ can a spider man comic book actually prove the existence of spider man?” ... if you can’t understand this analogy then you’ve got a bigger problem than you think .. all religion and god(s) like comic books and super hero’s - are man made.
That statement is not true, not constructive and is in fact de-constructive. I'm not gonna argue about the speakers or the subject we probably agree on most things, but I don't agree on your attitude towards the 'other side in fact i vehemently disagree with any gratous demeaning comment against theists. Why? You are not doing any good to the furthering of atheism and more generally rational critical thinking. Imagine being a theist reading that. And imagine you actually also made real pertinant points that had not been answered. I can guarantee 99.99% of people will instantly dismiss all of your comment because it was felt as an unjustified (or plain) attack. It's dumb it's unrelated but people take critism of their beliefs as critisism of them and more so the stronger held. You are basically attacking the most fundamental central pillar of a belief and that is equivalent to you giving them a get out of jail card. You give them an espace route, oh that bastard is just a godless immoral atheist look at how he is full of hate on our poor religion, people hate christians so much we are constantly attacked- in the meantime not even having to dismiss your actual points, why give any time to the raving comments of a demonised adversary? I understand where the sentiment comes from believe me, and i ve been far more brutal in many conversations with thiests. Not proud nor ashamed i'd be gzntler on some but not everyone deserveq your good will, and sometimes you just get angry no big deal, the difference is between attacking a person which is perfectly fine if merited, and attacking an ideology solely by mocking, which is actually helping said ideology by protecting it from critisism.
Again i understand and i m not saying you should never do it just to be clear. Personally i find that it is sometimes the right thing to do in my moral code (utilitarian in moral philosophy terms) is attacking islam without any reason, not muslims but just bashing the religion a bit with true harsh arguments. Because i feel theu are wining the war against free speach and trying to ban critism, i will not let that happen
@@alexisjuillard4816 wow what a loser you are. You just typed an essay to yourself because trust me, no one gives a flying fluck what your opinion is. You must be really lonely to want to type for 10 minutes to yourself
@@kellygipson8354 you edited your comment that was 1 sentence long, barely. I’d advise you not to give your unsolicited opinion. Especially if it consists of a single sentence that you can’t get right the first time
From William Lane Craig First of all I think that god is the best explanation for why anything exists rather than nothing ……fumbling with babble….... and it seems to me that an argument along these lines is valid and cogent (Here’s the actual point) Whatever exists has an explanation of its existence, either in the necessity of its own nature or else in an external cause , if the universe has an explanation of its existence then that explanation is god and the universe obviously exists from that it follows that if the universe has an explanation of its existence then god exists , and since that first premise requires that I think that this is a good argument for gods existence , that one could defend in more detail. (Possibly more detail is required) (I am quite sure that I transcribed this accurately, I did leave out some uhms) I’m going to try to summarise this in good faith Actually I’ve just read it again and it doesn’t need summarising as it was quite short , it may have just seemed longer due to the mental gymnastics required to take the massive leap that he did So I will rephrase If something exists it has an explanation The only explanation for the existence of the universe is god And the universe obviously exists Therefore god exists It seems like I am twisting his words , his words were very twisted to begin with. (Reread/relisten to what he said , here is the massive leap that he made {if the universe has an explanation of its existence then that explanation is god} I must stress again , see the curly brackets, he actually said that.) If he didn’t speak so fast and the audience was less deferential and less polite he may have been laughed off stage for that It would be a compliment to call that argument sophistry Amazing that he claimed at the end that Christopher didn’t address the arguments and advised him to be better prepared
I went to a Conservative Christian Camp somewhere in southern Kansas back in June of 1993 when I was 12 years old. We had a counselor who was speaking to us children and teenagers who were 11-14 years old. This man in his 20s looked at every last one of us and said now you know we all to deserve to burn in hell for eternity and if it wasnt for Jesus we all would be. My heart I thought was going to jump right out of my throat and I was so enraged. My blood was boiling, my body shook violently, and I wanted to walk right up to that guy and kick him right in the balls. I dont see how anyone can live with themself or look someone in the face and say something so hideouly wickedly immoral to children, teenagers, or anyone for that matter. Oh, they would say were just teaching them that because it is only the truth. There is not even one shred of credible evidence to back up that claim. Thank You Christopher, you will be missed.
Maybe after your counselor said all those stupid remarks about how you are doomed to hell---he later said privately to each kid you can be redeemed if you make me happy as he put his hands in private places.
Mordecai Ruckman are you joking or are you just stupid? He didn’t want to kick the guy in the balls for not having evidence. He wanted to kick the guy in the balls for telling 11 - 14 year olds that that they would and do deserve to suffer for eternity except for the salvation of Jesus, for which there is no evidence.
@@dentonfender8872 Nowadays with less people in church there’s child predators elsewhere. child indoctrination is like a mental molestation of young minds though.
The most interesting part of this debate was the part regarding the cosmological constants and the "fine tuning" of the universe and so on. This is an argument that falls on its own unreasonableness. The vast majority of the universe is fiercely inhospitable to life, or at least carbon-based life, due to radiation, temperature, gravity, and so forth, i.e. not fine-tuned by any means. And it is mind-boggling in the first place that people are surprised to find themselves on a planet that allows for life. Nobody will ever find themselves asking that question on a planet that does *not* allow for life. It is a self-fulfilling, circular, recursive argument which, of course, is and always will be the very trademark of unjustified and wishful thinking, more commonly known as religion.
hackum1 Thank "God", Indeed! I can only envision Christopher rolling his eyes at such a statement. We, Christopher and I, both perceive the graciousness of the sentiment, as well as the irony.
He said once You have to have your heart on fire but your head on ice I might’ve got those the wrong way around He really does believe that religion poisons everything Case and point the men on stage with him , it’s hard to say whether or not they are intelligent when they are so thoroughly indoctrinated, but imagine if they had never heard the good word of the lord , they would probably still have their morals and would probably spend their time more productively do more good and live more fulfilling lives Hence religion poisons everything It has probably been said before, but it is my personal belief that organised religion is the work of the devil
"We have to be brothers, one with another", Hitchens "Why?", Douglas "We have to fight this off", Hitchens "Why?", Douglas "For our own survival. For our children's sake", Hitchens
It wasn't at all 'brave' for Hitchens to attend this discussion. It was an opportunity for Hitch to educate, humiliate and honor them with his presence!!! I swear Craig is such a douchebag with all his babble. 🤣🤣 No real challenge for Hitch, he out wits, and shines everytime! I've yet to meet his genius equal. The greatest orator, wordsmith, and comedic delivery, I've ever witnessed. I will forever listen to him, miss him, and so grateful for the best professor I've ever had! Cheers to the late great Hitch!!!🍻🥂
10000% agree. I've watched this and other Hitchens debates multiple times. Read his books multiple times. He was a master that truly left this earth too soon. I wish more idiots, I mean religious people would hear him and break the disgusting cycle of hate, fear, self loathing, and violence caused by their beliefs in a celestial boogeyman
This discussion is really hilarious, comical! I am not sure how Mr. Hitchens could keep his composure and not roll on the floor laughing. These guys in suits making these jokes with a straight face is really entertaining. They actually belive what they are saying :)
The dude at the podium started this off with a near minute long commercial for their magazine subscriptions. That informed me of the caliber of the "thought leaders" on that stage sitting with Christopher.
Who else fast forward to hear only the great Christopher Hitchens rhetoric? Christopher's patience dealing with these imbecilic deluded morons is amazing..May his mellifluous voice continue to enlighten the thinking man for thousands of years! Oh Yes!!
He's lost you because what he's saying is the most ill-formed logical presentation In the world. No unbiased philosopher or scientist would take it seriously. "The universe must have had a cause therefore God loves us" it's ridiculous. I'm not sure he doesn't have learning difficulties. The problem isn't your ability to follow his arguments, the problem is his inability to make an argument that logically follows.
When Sam Harris accused Christians of playing tennis without the net, this is what he was talking about. On the one hand they say the father raped his daughter in a dungeon because God gave him free will and it would be a slippery slope to intervene. Then later when Christopher said he was hardwired to love his daughter they said it's because God hardwired/programmed him that way. It's hard to think on your feet when it's 1 vs 5 but I wish he would have pointed out that if God hardwired him to love his daughter then he also hard wired the man to rape and torture his daughter.
There's something I've never understood about how Christopher responded to the moral question, why doesn't he just concede that morality is subjective and part of an evolutionary process. It wouldn't put him on the back foot because surely the point is that modern imperfect humanism is inherently still better than the imaginary objectivity of bronze age religious doctrine, they always seem to work him into a corner with that one.
+Maestro Gee yeah I've wondered something similar, I feel like you could say even less than "subjective part of an evolutionary process". They act like it's a cornering question, but knowing where our morality comes from doesn't seem like an important question.
contactkeithstack exactly, they present it as if it's an argument which somehow damages an atheistic world view but even if it was conceded that our morality is ultimately without any foundation it would prove nothing about the existence or non-existence of a God.
love how the faithful NEVER mention this hitch-craig meeting. without the strict debate format to hide behind, just another christian, and with all the depth and glitter of a worn dime.
This is the hardest Hitch debate for me. The second hand embarrassment from a whole table of dudes getting trounced by one guy is historic in this one.
Really? Tell me, if you will, what do you think Hitch's view is toward the fine-tuning argument? He starts at ~1;40;34 where he says, that he, "fails completely to see the force of this argument." What do you think his actual thinking is toward the fine-tuning argument?
I had to slow down the play speed in order to take in what Craig was saying. That dude spoke atrociously during that debate. Regardless of one's position on the topic, it is incomprehensible that anyone could ever take that man seriously. If you listen to what he says, each and every one of his arguments do not stand up to question whatsoever.
As for the 'tithing is a moral act which an atheist doesn't do.' Last I checked atheists can, and do, give plenty to charities. That is absolutely in the same vein as tithing - and is, in fact, more moral than tithing is, as the money given to charity is used for charitable ends, and not a tax-exempt source of income to an organization.
Selling newsletters is tough but selling Christian newsletters must be the hardest of all. Even if reading them as fantasy it's tough reading. But there will always be folk who believe the unverifiable and parting with their money just adds to their stoicism. Hitch was great
After hearing the apologists poor responses to Hitchens reasoning and logic I must agree with Voltaire when he said: "It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
So often Christopher must be resisting the urge to say what he said to fox news: "You strike me as somebody who hasn't read the arguments against your position".
Looking back on this I want to scream at Hitchens, "You sound like someone with lung cancer, GO TO A DOCTOR!" *Cries* Why do the good die so young and the evil live on forever?
Even with a cough, EVEN being significantly outnumbered by those who oppose him on the panel, EVEN being at the mercy of a somewhat impartial moderator, and EVEN being in the "Lamb's" den as it were at a Christian-centric event...Hitchens STILL bodies everyone there. An absolute masterclass of argument and oration.
LOL, I know Hitchens was sick at this point but it was hilarious watching him put eye drops in and blow his nose not even caring about their weak sauce arguments.
The analogy by the "Pastor" that an omnipotent god is equivalent to a parent is invalid. The freedom of action our children has as individuals as opposed to us as parents is not ultimately controllable. Parents do not know what their children think. Parents cannot read their children's mind. Parents do not know what will happen tomorrow. More importantly humans cannot mandate what will happen tomorrow. The christian God can and therefore must. That is why freedom is illusory in christianity, because god CAN mandate choices and facts and reality, and therefore humans appreciation of freedom of will is false.
I think the Christians needed a few more to make this a fair debate. :-) Hitch has made sense of everything to me... Thank you so much Christopher. (This comment is for Hitch's friends and family).
43:45 "I want god to intervene when people misuse their freedom to do..." In other words: "You're free to do anything except what I don't want you to." Logic.
I like how their arguments never actually warrant the conclusion. "The universe couldn't come from nothing and appears designed" okay, I don't necessarily accept the premise of it appearing designed, but fair start to the argument.. And then they jump to "therefore it was a personal being and that being was the god of the bible who sent his only son to die for our sins, I don't have enough faith to be an atheist" It's the worst reasoning I've ever heard in my life.
Yet there is so much conviction and misplaced confidence that they're definitely correct and there's no issue with them saying "you're dumb, that couldn't happen, of COURSE it was a thinking being that cares about us all individually. It boggles the mind
Our motto is "In God We Trust" because of McCarythism in the 50s. Which, technically is unconstitutional. Anyway, the de facto motto for nearly 200 years was E Pluribus unum (out of many,one). Which is far more representative of our country, then "In God We Trust" which is exclusionary.
Lear said: “Reason not the need.” Or Shakespeare. It is the need. Some people need daddies beyond early childhood, some grow up. And this very destructive need goes a long way to explaining why men are so fond of the fantasy. And having placed themselves “nearer my god to thee” have justified the atrocities their sad need has visited on the world. “If something happens, there must be a cause?” Yes. If you need one. I don’t.
"The logical way was to put myself in the way of the evidence. And that was the way of jesus christ" Throwing the word "logical" to make his arguments sound less idiotic
First speaker, I'm too stupid and lazy to study the science, and too arrogant to admit that I'm that way. Can't admit,"I don't know.", so I'll believe something a 10 year old can comprehend, like Santa.
The "cause" argument was destroyed by the question "What existed before God"? God is just a word people use to explain that they do not know what happened before the big bang, so in our ignorance lets say there is a God, without any other evidence other than our existence. circular reasoning is not logical or rational. Just because we can theorize objectivity in morality does not prove its existence. Craig is a very disturbed individual.
Watching this is sad as hell ..chris made fools of them all. Thank RUclips for this post if will help rid us of religion eventually Sooner than we can believe
5:41 "the physics of the universe" "universal constants" "force of gravity" "find tuned on a razors edge for life to exist." So much is wrong with these statements. These are mans interpretations (defined as mathematical formula) of trying to understand his surroundings, and in actual fact they are very generalized statistical averages in almost all cases. There are also many exceptions to the formula, one just needs to open any good chemistry or physics textbook. So not much fine tuning there. Life evolved to tolerate conditions of the planet and surroundings as best it could (hence zones of inhabitable areas, however, even in some cases life can find a way). The planet wasn't created to fit man's needs to survive. As our solar system evolves, we will eventually feel the "burn" of a old and dying star and if we haven't left and colonized another world, we too will be wiped out of existence with the rest of all the other species (if we haven't done it to ourselves already). We are in no way more special than any other co-inhabitant of this planet. We (and all other life) are all made up of the same elements, in the same percentages/composition, as found in the world on which we live. Really nothing special there. Religion just seems to make us think we are "special," and in my opinion, it makes us insanely arrogant, selfish and materialistic. Everything is about us. Good examples is how we will destroy the rain forest, pollute the oceans, frack the oil reserves, allowing species after species to go extinct (I could go on and on), and we are doing this very quickly in a very short time frame (compared to the time the earth has existed). Our world around us is going down the drain, but that's ok because we can go to a church and sing happy clappy songs in this age that make us feel better, and we think that we are loved by some mythological god created by a middle eastern tribe's early philosophy [in an area where there were already lots of "gods" - so not much special about yahweh either as he prescribes to almost all the same myths and ideas as the other god's of the time] of trying to understand the world around them. Yes, it's all about me, me, me... I side with the minority of intellects including Hitchens (and Russell, Paine, Dawkins, Harris, Dennet, Sagan etc etc) because of their honesty. They don't claim to know the truth, and they are willing to take the lesser traveled path against the strong current of the faithful, and stand against what others say must be true (with no evidence). Rather taking the stand to question the world and existence with an open mind without religious blinkers.
"I used to be an atheist, but then my wife turned into christinanity and i had to make a choice between staying an atheist, or getting laid on a regular basis." is all i heard from the first speaker >.
Bingo. Looks like he was literally cumming to god.
Hahaha hehehe I was going to right the same thing the power of the pussy lol
pussie whipped
😂 lol
So finely tuned to exist in one minuscule part of the universe which is like saying that you must give me my pension because I went to work for 1 femtosecond.
37:46 _"Imagine how she must have prayed everyday, how she must have beseeched heaven. Imagine for twenty four years and no, no answer at all, nothing! _*_Nothing!_* Goodness me what a moment. It's very satisfying to see a very unfiltered version of the anger he must feel towards religion.
As far as the bible goes...he had every right to do what he did to his daughter.
@@sciencefirst7032?
@@LMFAORomania women are treated as property especially daughters. Look them up...all old testament stuff. Like...selling them into slavery, killing them whenever you want...ect. It's all there.
MH Aurora I think it shows his anger at the lack of a god and anger at those who still follow that fantasy.
@@at6686 Could it be anger at those who presents the God delusion as something worthwhile to entertain?
On what sadistic grounds you have to stand to pretend that what that women went through can be compensated in any way. It's not like she was asked for that bargain.
I can actually feel my IQ dropping as I tolerate (endure) the idiotic arguments of the pro religious. It's insane. Hitches is Magisterial as always.
l
Same. The obtuse density of the faithful is abhorrent
Got the Christmas thesaurus early? Nice!
@@thomasbonnett4800 no I actually just speak as though I’m educated lol
There are many intelligent theists. It's important to remember that even intelligent people believe things that aren't provably true.
Hitchens has the patience of Job, lol. Thank you sir for helping me on my journey of letting go of catholicism and instead embracing reality more authentically, and in fact more lovingly.
They argue that Christianity offers hope, whereas (Hitchens) humanism does not. There is something worse than no hope . . . it's called false hope.
Five against one and Hitch still slaps each and every one. Reason above everything.
Hitchens himself disagrees. Please lay out how he slapped Brother Wilson! Thanks
exactly
What’s really scary and alarming is how one can’t see how Hitchens bitch slapped each opponent with pure reason and logic ... to understand how he did it you simply have to say to yourself “ can a spider man comic book actually prove the existence of spider man?” ... if you can’t understand this analogy then you’ve got a bigger problem than you think .. all religion and god(s) like comic books and super hero’s - are man made.
@@Fundaykidzz well said
It's a whole brainwashed school
Hitchens is the only intelligent person on that stage and the only one worthwhile listening to.
That statement is not true, not constructive and is in fact de-constructive. I'm not gonna argue about the speakers or the subject we probably agree on most things, but I don't agree on your attitude towards the 'other side in fact i vehemently disagree with any gratous demeaning comment against theists.
Why?
You are not doing any good to the furthering of atheism and more generally rational critical thinking.
Imagine being a theist reading that. And imagine you actually also made real pertinant points that had not been answered.
I can guarantee 99.99% of people will instantly dismiss all of your comment because it was felt as an unjustified (or plain) attack. It's dumb it's unrelated but people take critism of their beliefs as critisism of them and more so the stronger held.
You are basically attacking the most fundamental central pillar of a belief and that is equivalent to you giving them a get out of jail card.
You give them an espace route, oh that bastard is just a godless immoral atheist look at how he is full of hate on our poor religion, people hate christians so much we are constantly attacked- in the meantime not even having to dismiss your actual points, why give any time to the raving comments of a demonised adversary?
I understand where the sentiment comes from believe me, and i ve been far more brutal in many conversations with thiests. Not proud nor ashamed i'd be gzntler on some but not everyone deserveq your good will, and sometimes you just get angry no big deal, the difference is between attacking a person which is perfectly fine if merited, and attacking an ideology solely by mocking, which is actually helping said ideology by protecting it from critisism.
Again i understand and i m not saying you should never do it just to be clear.
Personally i find that it is sometimes the right thing to do in my moral code (utilitarian in moral philosophy terms) is attacking islam without any reason, not muslims but just bashing the religion a bit with true harsh arguments. Because i feel theu are wining the war against free speach and trying to ban critism, i will not let that happen
@@alexisjuillard4816 wow what a loser you are. You just typed an essay to yourself because trust me, no one gives a flying fluck what your opinion is. You must be really lonely to want to type for 10 minutes to yourself
He's also the only one being inconsistent with what he thinks, which expose's what he says is a lie.
@@kellygipson8354 you edited your comment that was 1 sentence long, barely. I’d advise you not to give your unsolicited opinion. Especially if it consists of a single sentence that you can’t get right the first time
"We have A lot of brain power up here" That moderator was very polite to those believers by not pointing out he was talking directly about Christopher
True
👍🤣😂😅🏆
If there are 5 billion brain cells between the debaters on the panel, how many does each debater have?
what an absolute tautologist William Lane Craig is... how can someone with such little reasoning be respected
When word's are many, your just babbling
It's Philosophy of Religion he's respected in, not ACTUAL philosophy. Or science for that matter.
Plus he's just mealy mouthed... Always sounds like hi pitched wanking
He's just another con man
Easy. Have even less reasoning.
Christopher Hitchens: answers all the questions with fine detail.
Dr.William Craig at the end: nOnE Of OUr qUesTiONs wERe aNsWERd.
First thing I thought when I heard that was... so William, you seem to have political aspirations.
I now have watched about three other debates involving WLC and he pretty much 'sums up' every other debate like this.
He always does that
From William Lane Craig
First of all I think that god is the best explanation for why anything exists rather than nothing
……fumbling with babble…....
and it seems to me that an argument along these lines is valid and cogent
(Here’s the actual point)
Whatever exists has an explanation of its existence, either in the necessity of its own nature or else in an external cause , if the universe has an explanation of its existence then that explanation is god and the universe obviously exists from that it follows that if the universe has an explanation of its existence then god exists , and since that first premise requires that I think that this is a good argument for gods existence , that one could defend in more detail.
(Possibly more detail is required)
(I am quite sure that I transcribed this accurately, I did leave out some uhms)
I’m going to try to summarise this in good faith
Actually I’ve just read it again and it doesn’t need summarising as it was quite short , it may have just seemed longer due to the mental gymnastics required to take the massive leap that he did
So I will rephrase
If something exists it has an explanation
The only explanation for the existence of the universe is god
And the universe obviously exists
Therefore god exists
It seems like I am twisting his words , his words were very twisted to begin with. (Reread/relisten to what he said , here is the massive leap that he made {if the universe has an explanation of its existence then that explanation is god}
I must stress again , see the curly brackets, he actually said that.)
If he didn’t speak so fast and the audience was less deferential and less polite he may have been laughed off stage for that
It would be a compliment to call that argument sophistry
Amazing that he claimed at the end that Christopher didn’t address the arguments and advised him to be better prepared
I went to a Conservative Christian Camp somewhere in southern Kansas back in June of 1993 when I was 12 years old. We had a counselor who was speaking to us children and teenagers who were 11-14 years old. This man in his 20s looked at every last one of us and said now you know we all to deserve to burn in hell for eternity and if it wasnt for Jesus we all would be. My heart I thought was going to jump right out of my throat and I was so enraged. My blood was boiling, my body shook violently, and I wanted to walk right up to that guy and kick him right in the balls. I dont see how anyone can live with themself or look someone in the face and say something so hideouly wickedly immoral to children, teenagers, or anyone for that matter. Oh, they would say were just teaching them that because it is only the truth. There is not even one shred of credible evidence to back up that claim. Thank You Christopher, you will be missed.
Maybe after your counselor said all those stupid remarks about how you are doomed to hell---he later said privately to each kid you can be redeemed if you make me happy as he put his hands in private places.
Mordecai Ruckman are you joking or are you just stupid? He didn’t want to kick the guy in the balls for not having evidence. He wanted to kick the guy in the balls for telling 11 - 14 year olds that that they would and do deserve to suffer for eternity except for the salvation of Jesus, for which there is no evidence.
You poor little baby .
Newsflash: most humans are totally delusional and insane.
@@dentonfender8872 Nowadays with less people in church there’s
child predators elsewhere. child indoctrination is like a mental molestation of young minds though.
The Fritzl argument just crushed the opposition. Hitchens showed real anger here and it made his argument ten times stronger.
Their floundering responses just showed how they couldn't comprehend the thought. Embarrassing
I feel more love and respect for Hitchens, a man I never met, than I could ever be told to feel for any god.
It's like an adult arguing with 4 children
Only 4 Christians? How unfair...
Lol. No doubt!
It should b reversed to make it a lil closer to fair
they could use 15; wouldn't make a fuck worth of difference
I know and none of them armed to spar with the late great Hitch 😢
Don't forget the moderator, who engaged with hitch at the beginning then ducked out when he realisef how putmatched he was, so 5 christians.
In Einstein words, if I were wrong 1 would have sufficed.
''horray for hitch'' he won't let you down..
The most interesting part of this debate was the part regarding the cosmological constants and the "fine tuning" of the universe and so on. This is an argument that falls on its own unreasonableness. The vast majority of the universe is fiercely inhospitable to life, or at least carbon-based life, due to radiation, temperature, gravity, and so forth, i.e. not fine-tuned by any means. And it is mind-boggling in the first place that people are surprised to find themselves on a planet that allows for life. Nobody will ever find themselves asking that question on a planet that does *not* allow for life. It is a self-fulfilling, circular, recursive argument which, of course, is and always will be the very trademark of unjustified and wishful thinking, more commonly known as religion.
Indeed. It's Douglas Adam's water puddle on cosmological scope.
And even most of our planet is unlivable because we can't breathe underwater.
Bravo! 👏👏👏
Exactly if it was that fined tuned by a celestial smart arse- he’d have bolted on a meteor deflector
We are fkd
Are you sure we aren't on a flat disc being held up by four elephants per Terry Pratchett?
Thank God for Christopher Hitchens!
Thank Christopher Hitchens mother for Christopher Hitchens!
hackum1 Thank "God", Indeed! I can only envision Christopher rolling his eyes at such a statement. We, Christopher and I, both perceive the graciousness of the sentiment, as well as the irony.
Thank god?
Amen!
Hahaha good one that was funny
Not sure how Christopher Hitchens can keep a straight face and not start cracking up at the craziness spouted around him.
Maturity.
That has been my #1 question about God debaters for years. I wouldn't be able to stop laughing.
Because he takes these matters seriously and he is trying to make valid points, not just make fun of the subject at hand.
He said once
You have to have your heart on fire but your head on ice
I might’ve got those the wrong way around
He really does believe that religion poisons everything
Case and point the men on stage with him , it’s hard to say whether or not they are intelligent when they are so thoroughly indoctrinated, but imagine if they had never heard the good word of the lord , they would probably still have their morals and would probably spend their time more productively do more good and live more fulfilling lives
Hence religion poisons everything
It has probably been said before, but it is my personal belief that organised religion is the work of the devil
"We have to be brothers, one with another", Hitchens
"Why?", Douglas
"We have to fight this off", Hitchens
"Why?", Douglas
"For our own survival. For our children's sake", Hitchens
Hitchens face at the beginning when the mod is talking about the subscription to the Christian magazine 😂😂😂
I gotta go back and look 😂
It wasn't at all 'brave' for Hitchens to attend this discussion. It was an opportunity for Hitch to educate, humiliate and honor them with his presence!!!
I swear Craig is such a douchebag with all his babble. 🤣🤣
No real challenge for Hitch, he out wits, and shines everytime!
I've yet to meet his genius equal. The greatest orator, wordsmith, and comedic delivery, I've ever witnessed.
I will forever listen to him, miss him, and so grateful for the best professor I've ever had!
Cheers to the late great Hitch!!!🍻🥂
10000% agree. I've watched this and other Hitchens debates multiple times. Read his books multiple times. He was a master that truly left this earth too soon. I wish more idiots, I mean religious people would hear him and break the disgusting cycle of hate, fear, self loathing, and violence caused by their beliefs in a celestial boogeyman
It's not bravery when you're the only heavyweight in the room, it's merely a workout.
Christopher hitchens was the bill Buckley of the left.
He didn't even need to crack a sweat. A lion against 5 mice.
This discussion is really hilarious, comical! I am not sure how Mr. Hitchens could keep his composure and not roll on the floor laughing. These guys in suits making these jokes with a straight face is really entertaining. They actually belive what they are saying :)
The dude at the podium started this off with a near minute long commercial for their magazine subscriptions. That informed me of the caliber of the "thought leaders" on that stage sitting with Christopher.
Who else fast forward to hear only the great Christopher Hitchens rhetoric? Christopher's patience dealing with these imbecilic deluded morons is amazing..May his mellifluous voice continue to enlighten the thinking man for thousands of years! Oh Yes!!
Craig’s arguments and reasoning are nonsense
Christopher we have lost an amazing man!
Hitchens has more ethics; more conviction; more sense ; and more intellectual courage then anyone in this room
Careful now. He's not all that infallible. No human being is. I know I ain't.
never...never will we come even close to seeing the likes of our precious hitch
“We’re gonna need more apologists.”
And more of these "moderators".
@@Ometecuhtli "And more magazine subscriptions."
Craig makes these enormous leaps of logic, 'this therefore, that' and by the time he inhales he's lost me.
He's lost you because what he's saying is the most ill-formed logical presentation In the world. No unbiased philosopher or scientist would take it seriously.
"The universe must have had a cause therefore God loves us" it's ridiculous. I'm not sure he doesn't have learning difficulties.
The problem isn't your ability to follow his arguments, the problem is his inability to make an argument that logically follows.
Craig's strategy seems to be to overwhelm the opposition with so many logical fallacies that your brain just shuts down.
Skillfull psychobabble numbs the mind.
‘Incomprehensible religious waffle’ would be an appropriate description of which WLC appears to be most proficient !
When Sam Harris accused Christians of playing tennis without the net, this is what he was talking about. On the one hand they say the father raped his daughter in a dungeon because God gave him free will and it would be a slippery slope to intervene. Then later when Christopher said he was hardwired to love his daughter they said it's because God hardwired/programmed him that way. It's hard to think on your feet when it's 1 vs 5 but I wish he would have pointed out that if God hardwired him to love his daughter then he also hard wired the man to rape and torture his daughter.
Just hit me to. So sad, and yet he stays resolute in his integrity and detailed discussion. He was such a sharp mind.
I absolutely LOVE Christopher.
Amazing man.
I would not want to be sitting in that seat at the time. By which I means the 4 fellers sitting next to Hitch.
Knowing what we know now, it's painful to see Hitchens coughing.
There's something I've never understood about how Christopher responded to the moral question, why doesn't he just concede that morality is subjective and part of an evolutionary process. It wouldn't put him on the back foot because surely the point is that modern imperfect humanism is inherently still better than the imaginary objectivity of bronze age religious doctrine, they always seem to work him into a corner with that one.
+Maestro Gee yeah I've wondered something similar, I feel like you could say even less than "subjective part of an evolutionary process". They act like it's a cornering question, but knowing where our morality comes from doesn't seem like an important question.
contactkeithstack exactly, they present it as if it's an argument which somehow damages an atheistic world view but even if it was conceded that our morality is ultimately without any foundation it would prove nothing about the existence or non-existence of a God.
Maestro Gee yeah or the existence of the behavior we call moral.
"The Christians outnumber us four-to-one. Good odds, for any atheist." - Hitch / Leonidas
Hitchens was not unlike a US F-22; he took out four opponents that never saw him coming.
Love this :-)
Whenever WLC says "intellectual" I have an uncontrollable urge to plant my face into my palm.
That cough attack close to the 1 hour mark in the video....Damit :/
I know :( you can notice it in many of his debates circa 09'/10'. so sad.
Most of what I'm listening to is incoherent babbling. I suffer through the Christian comments to hear the Hitchslap.
I love Hitch but can't listen to this garbage. He is genius, but these others.....ugh.....
TheBillP76 thankfully you don’t have to, because Hitchens suffered in our place. Haha.
TheBillP76 5 to 1 wasn’t a fair fight. They needed at least 20 to start getting close.
This whole thing is 5 against 1 and yet Hitchens is the only one to demonstrate morality.
As usual, starts off with a sales pitch. I miss Christopher
0:09:10 CH
0:15:35
0:20:21
0:24:47
0:30:09
0:33:33 CH
...
1:52:23 CH
1:55:35
Nice work 👌
Look at William Craig Lane at 3:45... his face shows that he really thinks the whole crowd is applauding him 😆
That man near the start talking about soda fizzing up has completely lost his marbles
😂
Please don't be dead Christopher.
Hitchslapped !! All of them
They should do one about Santa Claus too
It is so painful to listen to Lane Craig
Especially that closing statement, when he was so condescending and dismissive of Hitchens.
love how the faithful NEVER mention this hitch-craig meeting.
without the strict debate format to hide behind, just another christian, and with all the depth and glitter of a worn dime.
Seriously? 4 misinformed/ liars against 1 sensible Atheist? 🤨
Not cool. But Hitch can handle it. 😏
Defo :-)
This is the hardest Hitch debate for me. The second hand embarrassment from a whole table of dudes getting trounced by one guy is historic in this one.
Really?
Tell me, if you will, what do you think Hitch's view is toward the fine-tuning argument? He starts at ~1;40;34
where he says, that he, "fails completely to see the force of this argument."
What do you think his actual thinking is toward the fine-tuning argument?
Another astounding argument for Christianity: it gives hope to the feeble and stupid.
My head hurts.
And money to those who can't have a proper job.
Religious people have no shame in admitting that they would believe absolutely anything in the absence of evidence.
I had to slow down the play speed in order to take in what Craig was saying. That dude spoke atrociously during that debate. Regardless of one's position on the topic, it is incomprehensible that anyone could ever take that man seriously.
If you listen to what he says, each and every one of his arguments do not stand up to question whatsoever.
Only 4+ the moderator?? I miss Christopher Hitchens a lot.
The hosts had real balls to invite Hitchens and only send 4 apologists out to meet him.
07:53 Hitch's reaction is priceless.
As for the 'tithing is a moral act which an atheist doesn't do.' Last I checked atheists can, and do, give plenty to charities. That is absolutely in the same vein as tithing - and is, in fact, more moral than tithing is, as the money given to charity is used for charitable ends, and not a tax-exempt source of income to an organization.
I love Hitch's body language in this debate (constant folding of arms)
Four against one. The four never had a chance.
Epic debate. Hitch is fearless. Thanks for posting.
Make it right... now. Dignity is needed in life . To think you get later is a waste.
five (and one audience) against one, and they were slaughtered.
luckily, hitch had intelligence, facts, logic and reason to work with.
Selling newsletters is tough but selling Christian newsletters must be the hardest of all. Even if reading them as fantasy it's tough reading. But there will always be folk who believe the unverifiable and parting with their money just adds to their stoicism. Hitch was great
Hitchens is my god and you cant prove me wrong
The rebellion of irony in the face of an indifferent universe is far better than false hope
After hearing the apologists poor responses to Hitchens reasoning and logic I must agree with Voltaire when he said: "It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere."
Christopher Hitchens ought to be canonized for putting up with the horse shit that is being presented here.
This debate could only be improved by the addition of shrooms
So often Christopher must be resisting the urge to say what he said to fox news: "You strike me as somebody who hasn't read the arguments against your position".
Not a single one but they'll claim to have read all of em lol
Whenever they say "chance", I can hear Dawkins in my head that it's not random chance.
They specialize in using terms, especially if they come from a scientific context, improperly.
Looking back on this I want to scream at Hitchens, "You sound like someone with lung cancer, GO TO A DOCTOR!" *Cries* Why do the good die so young and the evil live on forever?
I was thinking the same. It must've been only a matter of months/a year until his horrendous diagnosis.
Even with a cough, EVEN being significantly outnumbered by those who oppose him on the panel, EVEN being at the mercy of a somewhat impartial moderator, and EVEN being in the "Lamb's" den as it were at a Christian-centric event...Hitchens STILL bodies everyone there. An absolute masterclass of argument and oration.
The fact it took 5 Christians to take on hitchens shows how laughable their Iron Age BS is
Amazing! Where for goodness sake was I when this video has been uploaded? I love Hitch.
LOL, I know Hitchens was sick at this point but it was hilarious watching him put eye drops in and blow his nose not even caring about their weak sauce arguments.
For a guy that had all this evidence...Lee Strobel sure was quiet during this.
The analogy by the "Pastor" that an omnipotent god is equivalent to a parent is invalid. The freedom of action our children has as individuals as opposed to us as parents is not ultimately controllable. Parents do not know what their children think. Parents cannot read their children's mind. Parents do not know what will happen tomorrow. More importantly humans cannot mandate what will happen tomorrow. The christian God can and therefore must. That is why freedom is illusory in christianity, because god CAN mandate choices and facts and reality, and therefore humans appreciation of freedom of will is false.
I think the Christians needed a few more to make this a fair debate. :-) Hitch has made sense of everything to me... Thank you so much Christopher. (This comment is for Hitch's friends and family).
43:45 "I want god to intervene when people misuse their freedom to do..."
In other words: "You're free to do anything except what I don't want you to."
Logic.
I like how their arguments never actually warrant the conclusion.
"The universe couldn't come from nothing and appears designed" okay, I don't necessarily accept the premise of it appearing designed, but fair start to the argument..
And then they jump to "therefore it was a personal being and that being was the god of the bible who sent his only son to die for our sins, I don't have enough faith to be an atheist"
It's the worst reasoning I've ever heard in my life.
Yet there is so much conviction and misplaced confidence that they're definitely correct and there's no issue with them saying "you're dumb, that couldn't happen, of COURSE it was a thinking being that cares about us all individually. It boggles the mind
@@w8m4nall they do is define themselves out of moral and philosophical problems by appealing to a God who has never been demonstrated to be real.
I just love it where Hitch blasts the whiny moderator!
Our motto is "In God We Trust" because of McCarythism in the 50s. Which, technically is unconstitutional. Anyway, the de facto motto for nearly 200 years was E Pluribus unum (out of many,one). Which is far more representative of our country, then "In God We Trust" which is exclusionary.
Lear said: “Reason not the need.” Or Shakespeare. It is the need. Some people need daddies beyond early childhood, some grow up. And this very destructive need goes a long way to explaining why men are so fond of the fantasy. And having placed themselves “nearer my god to thee” have justified the atrocities their sad need has visited on the world. “If something happens, there must be a cause?” Yes. If you need one. I don’t.
That soda argument is the dumbest analogy I have ever heard.
"The logical way was to put myself in the way of the evidence. And that was the way of jesus christ"
Throwing the word "logical" to make his arguments sound less idiotic
First speaker, I'm too stupid and lazy to study the science, and too arrogant to admit that I'm that way. Can't admit,"I don't know.", so I'll believe something a 10 year old can comprehend, like Santa.
What punishment all one has to do is repent.
At the hour mark when Hitchens begins to cough viciously...its the beginning of the end. I hate this.
u can hear Christopher struggling with his cancer during this debate. :( i miss his voice and mind so much.
The "cause" argument was destroyed by the question "What existed before God"? God is just a word people use to explain that they do not know what happened before the big bang, so in our ignorance lets say there is a God, without any other evidence other than our existence. circular reasoning is not logical or rational. Just because we can theorize objectivity in morality does not prove its existence. Craig is a very disturbed individual.
It's a mix of Kalam + God of the Gaps. It's a massive logical failure. No better than Deepak Chopra's woo-woo word salads.
Trust religion to get the sales pitch in first, give us your money.
Watching this is sad as hell ..chris made fools of them all. Thank RUclips for this post if will help rid us of religion eventually Sooner than we can believe
Hitch
Vs
Everybody
And they still get mopped.
5:41 "the physics of the universe" "universal constants" "force of gravity" "find tuned on a razors edge for life to exist." So much is wrong with these statements. These are mans interpretations (defined as mathematical formula) of trying to understand his surroundings, and in actual fact they are very generalized statistical averages in almost all cases. There are also many exceptions to the formula, one just needs to open any good chemistry or physics textbook. So not much fine tuning there.
Life evolved to tolerate conditions of the planet and surroundings as best it could (hence zones of inhabitable areas, however, even in some cases life can find a way). The planet wasn't created to fit man's needs to survive. As our solar system evolves, we will eventually feel the "burn" of a old and dying star and if we haven't left and colonized another world, we too will be wiped out of existence with the rest of all the other species (if we haven't done it to ourselves already). We are in no way more special than any other co-inhabitant of this planet. We (and all other life) are all made up of the same elements, in the same percentages/composition, as found in the world on which we live. Really nothing special there.
Religion just seems to make us think we are "special," and in my opinion, it makes us insanely arrogant, selfish and materialistic. Everything is about us. Good examples is how we will destroy the rain forest, pollute the oceans, frack the oil reserves, allowing species after species to go extinct (I could go on and on), and we are doing this very quickly in a very short time frame (compared to the time the earth has existed).
Our world around us is going down the drain, but that's ok because we can go to a church and sing happy clappy songs in this age that make us feel better, and we think that we are loved by some mythological god created by a middle eastern tribe's early philosophy [in an area where there were already lots of "gods" - so not much special about yahweh either as he prescribes to almost all the same myths and ideas as the other god's of the time] of trying to understand the world around them. Yes, it's all about me, me, me...
I side with the minority of intellects including Hitchens (and Russell, Paine, Dawkins, Harris, Dennet, Sagan etc etc) because of their honesty. They don't claim to know the truth, and they are willing to take the lesser traveled path against the strong current of the faithful, and stand against what others say must be true (with no evidence). Rather taking the stand to question the world and existence with an open mind without religious blinkers.
This planet's conditions are great for bacteria and will remain so long after we're gone.