Dipole Antennas: Raisa Stands Up Vertical To Horizontal
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- Опубликовано: 3 июн 2023
- I am back in the forest and continue to experiment with Ham Radio antennas / portable. Today I find out which dipole is better, vertical or horizontal.
What is your experience?
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73&88 and see you On the Air!
YLRaisa
#r1big
#oh7bg 
Хобби
I love how Raisa shows such happy enthusiasm for such mundane subjects as polarization. Always fun to check her videos to see what she’s up to!
I was told during the courses that it wouldn't matter because the atmosphere scrambles the polarization for HF. It's great to see the experimental results confirming it. Thank you very much.
I expected another results, but you are right :-)
The only real effect from the orientation would be the signal lobes. Horizontal will be more directional - perpendicular to the direction of the elements. Vertical will be more omnidirectional.
Love your videos Raisa. You are one of the best on Amateur Radio.
We have a really wonderful community, and I am on of them. 🤩
Hello Raisa, at first thank you so much for your contribution to the ham spirit and compliments for your videos and acitivity.About this video, to measure the horizontal to vertical attenuation, you should use a calibrated test receiver or a spectrum analyzer, a CW stable source and than a anechoic chamber or a reflection free area: in this case you will see really the difference, I did it. Depending of the balun, closed or open dipole, diameter of the radiator, could be 6 to 12 dB, 1 to 2 S points.On wikipedia there are more details. We made in the past a logged QSO. Thank you again and encourage you to continue in your activity to improve ham world. Greetings 88 , Sandro IW1FQC
Thank you Raisa for sharing this. I am enjoying all your videos. Cheers and 73! 😊
Interesting video to test the polarization effect. Keep up to make more videos Raisa. 😊
Well done your Test with the different antennas, dear Raisa !
I had the same results on 20M during the day (Indiana, USA), but at night the horizontal position seems to work better on the broadside directions, while the end directions seem to stay the same. Next, I'm going to try out vertical with radials (like the DX Commander) and compare it to a vertical dipole. Keep up the great work!
It would be a very interesting comparison, I also have a DX Commander ;-)
Any radials are better then no radials, something I have not tried with a dipole myself, but i orobabky will now you mentioned it.
I have 10 x 7m radials on a board but 3/4 is suffice if any at all, I also have a 40+m a long counterpoise, not that it's needed I just like to experiment with antennas I have created myself, and I am far from a Tech or Ham Expert, more The Experimental Ham Guy. 73's Ed
Thank you Raisa I really appreciate this experiment 73
Very interesting.
Wish I was aware this was happening as testing with others who actually understand what your testing is valuable.
I have always had great success with verticals in my location,quite noticeable at times but there can be loads of variables.Good little video Thanks.
verticals could work better in the cities...maybe...
@@YLRaisa I am over 300ft ASL so that may help factors,have a subscribe anyway.👍
Another wonderful video, thanks Raisa❤
Thanks for watching 👀
Great video and great experiment. It’s refreshing to hear a “ham” with your demeanor. Instead of the ones that take themselves to seriously!
God Bless!!!
thank you very much for this test, i am very surprised of the results!!
from Quebec Canada.
73
Thanks for watching and commenting
Great work raisa,73
Great demonstration, I wondered that myself and never actually tested it. Keep up the great work as always. 73
Thanks 👍 Try it :)
@@YLRaisa I will! I’m working on a 30m delta loop right now.
今日も 動画が観れて 幸せです 🇯🇵
一見ても 勉強になります ありがとうございます
私 英語が話せるなら 😂
次回の動画も楽しみにしです😊
next video comes soon ;-) 73! Raisa
Ótimo vídeo congratulações
And fire (1.45)😂 You are one of a kind Raisa ❤
☺ We are all one of a kind 😉
@@YLRaisa what was that at the start ?! You meant to say Hi ?!
@@digitalmediafan I told - Here goes! :)
Well done 👍
Поздрави от България
Great video Raisa definitely 5 and 9 from here
😅 Tnx for the good report 😉
Bravo, bravo!
Nice
Very Good !
Lovely video. Gives me ideas.
Great video Raisa. Now I will have to try the same thing here. Thank you for the video and the idea. **Hugs**
Hi Simon, please tell me your results ;-) Raisa
@@YLRaisa
I will do that. 😊
Very very good...
Tnx 😀
hi Raaysa nice to see you again terrific video 73 from kb2uew
Interesting radio experiments to.
Thanks 😊
I like to experiment with delta Loops they are 1 wavelength, perhaps 1.2 db of gain and quieter, feed at one quarter wavelenght I actually build one portable I called it the Delta Light, and it is on experiment phase yet. For a delta you can use the DX commander mast
I have no experiences with delta's yet, but I will do it in the future.. TNX, Raisa
I have the same exact radio (FT-891) but also, glad I found your video since I have been experimenting with a wire dipole. Sadly 10 meters propagation is not really doing well. Thank you for your video. 73 W4BTK.
Yes, I have been waiting for better conditions on 10 m long time and it is still bad... see you on the Air! Raisa
Very informative, Raisa. Thank you for the information. I always look forward to your experiments with our hobby!! Keep them coming, please!! 73 & 88!!
Thanks Phillip :)
I have too many antennas for POTA/SOTA, and can't wait until Summertime to be out testing them, I tend to use an EFHW with a 10m Spiderpole, but also have a G5RV & Delta Loop to experiment with, I can only wish for some crisp clear Dx like yourself. 73's Uk watching 🙂
experimenting / portable is one of amazing aspects out hobby! 73! Raisa
Nice........ .........
Love u..........
This is the kind of test that is very interesting to watch especially for radio lovers like me. As a bonus we have a beautiful and competent content presenter. Thank you for that. 73!
☺ TNX
Well done! Good job! Interessting result.
It depends on the height of the antenna. A vertical antenna has a slightly different diagram than a horizontal dipole. A low-hanging dipole radiates much more steeply than a high-hanging dipole. But a nice video and always nice to see you in HAM action!
greetings Stefan, DL8SFZ
При низком диполе радиоволны в большей мере поглощаются землёй,но это всё зависит от состава почвы и её влажности.Поэтому,иногда,вертикальный штырь бывает во много раз эффективнее - всё зависит от состава почвы,её влажности и что в данное время происходит в ионосфере,а также различных препятствий радиоволн.Поэтому всегда всё относительно.
Hi Stefan, I tried to install the feed points of both dipoles on the same height :-) 73, Raisa
Generally speaking, horizontal dipoles are quieter when there's a lot of qrm, there's a lot of overhead wires at my qth, a lot of qrm from them, so I have a horizontal dipole.
KE8NFK
Yes, I agree. But as you can see in natural conditions, when there is no interference nearby, there is no noise on both antennas. It doesn't matter how they are hung.
Hi, Great Test, Thanks VE2TSM
Very good test. Thanks !
May be interesting to try WSPR for comparison, what do you think ?
I will do soon the same experiment in my garden. For now, I got an horizontal that seems to be directional for DX.
Best 73 from F1SOC
Please share your results with me here, very interesting!
It seems like one minute you are out in the snow & ice…
and the next minute you are out in the sun! 😅
Cool video Raisa 😊.
I have much footage but few time to edit and create - this is the reason ;-)
@@YLRaisa I know, I am the same!
That was a great comparison of 2 dipoles. I am in the USA , we love them DX Commander mast. saving money to get the new 2024 DC Commander expedition portable antenna. he now has clamps to keep mast from collapsing down on it self. 6 threw 40 meters . going to cut extra elements for 3/4 wave 11 meter. 10 and 12 as well and a 3/4 wave 6 meter one. with the higher frequency you can cut 3/4 wave and wont be so long and still tune 50 ohm. I hade good luck in a park on 6 meters off set center dipole. tree to tree. 3/4 on center/1/4 in shield. match 1.5 or less threw the whole band. lately 6 meters not so good local only/ springtime has some nice DX . 73's
Well done. Enjoyed your new video. very interesting and what a beautiful location uh ? Who is your little green friend on the table ? Aha 😀
Hi Marcelo ! You know I like ELKs, and they often appear in my videos, but this time I took my small parrot with me ;-)
Raisa
@@YLRaisa 😁🦜
YL Raisa, I have never been to Russia but I am always Impressed with the Beauty of the land you always surround self with! Bye. ~Bruce~
Hi Bruce! in better times I hope you will be able to visit Russia..73! Raisa
THANK YOU YL Raisa! I appreciate it. I really do, but I can't foresee when I will have a chance to get away from home in the near future. But, of course, we never know what the more distant future holds do we? 😊.
I have heard stories from people that have been there but I would to see your Beautiful Country with my own two eyes! 😊. Rest Assured I would jump on a plane heading to Russia as quick as I could "if I could." ~73, Bruce~
Lovely job Raisa, perhaps the lake also has a good effect on Tx and Rx! 73s de M7FKB
yes, lake and forest are better than cities ;-) but in the lake it is still just fresh water 73! Raisa
О, здорово! В любом случае, эксперимент - это хорошо, а такой результат - тоже результат😊
Когда со спутника слабый сигнал принимаешь, вот там видна большая разница в поляризации, там ничто на влияет на сигнал в пространстве...
Да, мы тут делали эксперименты на УКВ и там поляризация антенны сильно влияла, тебя вспоминали ;-)
Cool Video YL Raisa Rocks!
😀
Nice testing... they say so much about the positions of dipoles... as an inverted v the antenna should be great for local... horizontal more for dx... and vertical i think it is to compare with the inverted v. Made a few antenna's myself with help of a german HAM... and the antenna's work fine. Sometimes a struggle with the SWR but hey i love the experimental site of radio.
Only on 11 meters... still to lazy to learn for the licence... I know the world opens when having more bands to use...😁
I wish you to get the licence! We need more people especially like make experiments 😉
Please let me know when you get the call sign 😃
@@YLRaisa OK, I am KN4vvY, General in South Carolina, USA. 73 Raisa ! Great video, Thank you.
@@YLRaisa Hello Raisa, i hope to get my licence one day... but it is not the easiest stuff to learn...
Great experiment. We're any of your QSOs local enough to have been groundwave? I would have expected the vertical to have been better in that case. Thanks for the video!!
I only used sky wave, with groundwave the result could be different, thanks for your idea ;-) 73, Raisa
Love the slingshot.
AF6MC
I had very good results with vertical wire, much more dx stations received. Just 12 meter high got 15476khz radio station from Antarctica. Also works nicely mw-band, Japan, Caribbean, US etc. Now thinking funny idea, what it would do if wire is silver platted copper. It offers better electrical conductivity than pure copper.
I also expected to have better result with vertical :-)
❤ Очень интересно
Привет, Раиса, я думаю, что вы должны постоянно строить оба диполя в DX, которые решат, какая антенна получит максимальную отдачу от этого. Я хотел бы снова увидеть тест в DX. Привет из Германии. 73+88
Да, было бы интересно посмотреть, как это работает при DX прохождении.
Great video, Raisa thank you. 73 2E0VPX
👍👍👍👍👍
When used for DX ( skywave propagation ) polarization is not critical since the actual antenna signal is being reflected by the ionosphere and polarization changes. It is often referred as elliptical polarization. Anyway, a very interesting test to confirm antenna theory. 73's and take care!
I did know that the polarization changes after hops... Thanks! Raisa
Отличное видел! Интересно, на какую из этих антенн было qso с R3DBB ? 😁 С уважением , Евгений (R3DBB) , 73!
На обе, потому что я почти в каждом QSO проверяла силу сигнал. :)
Thanks for the video. I always find verticals are best for me in zl.
Best wishes, zl3xdj
It is very pity I couldn't test both of antennas with you 🤗
That was neat Why you don’t try the reverse beacon snr reports?
I am not aware of this. I just heard about beacon snr..Tnx for advice, Raisa
Id like to see a floating vertical dipole on the water ❤
ruclips.net/video/1IWhhns7w2k/видео.html
Just watch this one 😉
@@YLRaisa oh yes I remember this episode 💓💓💓💓💓💓💓
Отличное видео, спасибо, как бальзам на душу...
А можно как-то повторить, чтобы провести WSPR тесты и сравнить их результаты?
Владимир, не обещаю. В лесу уже много комаров развелось. А такой тест требует длительной технической подготовки. Но в ближайшее время продолжу некоторые другие необычные эксперименты с антеннами на природе ;-)
@@YLRaisa Спасибо за ответ. Да, согласен про подготовку, но все настройки ноутбука+трансивера можно, и даже нужно и удобнее, провести в стационарных условиях, на примере наличных антенн. В крайнем случае можно при настройке делать анализ одной и той же антенны, но на разных диапазонах. А за тем по отлаженному алгоритму повторить в полевых условиях, сами замеры займут несколько минут. Да комары умеют доставлять неудобства...
Но даже и для одной антенны результат WSPR теста могут быть интересны и полезны.
Nice video
Good H/V test Raisa, 20 m good propagation. Oh! I told you I'd let you know when got my Amateur Extra and I did it!🥰I took the exam on the 19th of last month and is affective as the 22nd of May. keep up the antenna experiments, looks like lots of fun. 73&88
Thanks. My BIG congratulation on your Extra !!! Good job!!! Hope to meet you on the air 😉
@@YLRaisa Thank you so much, it was a lot of work with top honor score. Hope to meet you on the air too😎
❤
Does the antenna switch switch switch the shield of the coax as well as the center conductor? If not the horizontal dipole has a third wire which is vertical and the vertical dipole has a third wire that is horizontal. If the two coax feedline braids are connected then it will not show the real difference in the antennas.
You could put a double pole double throw switch in a box and connect the feedlines so that the shield of the vertical dipole and the shield of the horizontal dipole are not connected together. Then the results should be different. Basically your vertical is not completely vertical and your horizontal is not completely horizontal!
TNX for your comment. I did not intend to make a very exact experiment, I understand what you mean ;-) 73, Raisa
Thank you. Have a great week.
Keep experimenting. N0QFT
Raisa
here my video about a dream ;-) ruclips.net/video/787jyDZWsf4/видео.html
If I use a for example a PMR446 radio, will the vertical or horisontal anttenna orientation have an influence?
On one of the forums I found a good answer for you, which gave Kevin Reid AG6YO
"For VHF, choice of polarization is not up to your desired radiation pattern, but who you want to be able to communicate with. In HF, the ionosphere causes random rotation of your signal's polarization, but in all line-of-sight communication, VHF or higher, there is no such rotation and a polarization mismatch can result in no signal at all.
You should use vertical polarization if you wish to communicate with existing FM mobile and repeater stations, because they also use vertically polarized antennas (by convention, and because quarter-wave verticals are much more convenient than other types of antennas on vehicles and handhelds).
On the other hand, you should use horizontal polarization if you are attempting 2 meter SSB or other types of DX/weak-signal work. Again by convention, but the convention arises because (if I understand correctly) horizontal dipoles typically have more gain, and because a horizontal dipole is a simple, efficient freestanding antenna.
If you wish to be able to communicate with both types of stations using a single antenna, you can use a diagonally or circularly polarized antenna, as a compromise which has a reliable small amount of loss in either case. However, such antennas are more directional than a vertical (at least as much as a horizontal dipole) and thus require pointing."
Thanks Kevin!
de R1BIG
Thanks@@YLRaisa
@@YLRaisa Thanks. learnt something new today :)
@@stighenningjohansen you are welcome 😊
88/73, Raisa.
CT2IGZ
Привет!) Что за мачта под вертикал и сколько метров ? Давно ищу для полевого вертикал на 160/80м метров 16 минимум )
Это мачта DX Commander, не уверена, что получится её сейчас получить в России... Но наверное есть аналоги из Китая. Удачи! Раиса
Ухх ! С таким маникюром да из рогатки стрелять и гайки крутить :) Не говори, что не испортила :)
Современные способы нанесения лака, позволяют об этом не думать :)))
Не испортила.
@@YLRaisa Воот ! Скажу нашим конторским, чтобы тоже такой же лак использовали. С ним смогут откручивать шурупы ногтями. А то всё жалуются, что не получается открутить, маникюр слабый...
@@ES1LL это появление женственности 😉. Ведь приятно, когда мужчины помогают 😀.
@@YLRaisa Ещё бы ! Мужчины всегда готовы постоять за себя и полежать за других :)
Qro 💯/💯
For my newer house ,it would be much easier to use a horizontal--- I'm in La Junta, Colorado. KE0DNQ....
.73
horizontal is much easier to build almost everwhere :-) see you on the Air!
PRETTIEST YL ON HAM RADIO. 73 88!
ДАВАЙТЕ Я ЕЩЁ РАЗ ОБЪЯСНЮ ПРО АНТЕННЫ:
Всё всегда относительно:
Чем ближе диполь находится к земле,тем больше радиоволн поглощает земля,если эта земля плодородная(чернозём)и влажная;если эта земля глинистая и сухая,то эта земля будет отражать от себя радиоволны.
Если на пути распространения радиоволн находится много препятствий,то более эффективной антенной в этом случае будет диполь,но если на пути радиоволн нет препятствий в виде высоких гор или бетонных зданий,то лучшей антенной будет вертикальный штырь,и чем выше будет поднят этот штырь,тем лучше для связи как на ближние расстояния,так и на дальние - всё относительно,так как состав почвы и её влажность играют очень большую роль.
Не менее важной особенностью радиосвязи,особенно дальней,играют изменения солнечной активности в ионосфере в разные часы суток и погоды.
Поэтому,после дождя всегда для наиболее эффективной связи будет антенна из вертикального штыря,если в этом случае нет препятствий для радиоволн в виде высоко этажных зданий или высоких гор.Если эти препятствия(здания и горы)для радиоволн присутствуют и почва сухая,то наиболее эффективной антенной будет диполь или,лучше,волновой канал.
ВСЁ ВСЕГДА ОТНОСИТЕЛЬНО.
спасибо за развёрнутый комментарий. Конечно, волновой канал всегда выиграет, за счёт усиление (точнее "сосредоточения") энергии в определенном угле. 73! Раиса
Did operating beside the water make any difference to signal reports,..
Hi Ron, I did not understand your question (?)
I live beside the coast, I find signals (DX) much more enhanced over the sea. I work Australia with only 10W ssb and a loaded 1.4m whip antenna. I wondered if it would be same for you, but over lake water,.. 73 de G4FBC
I wonder with an inverted V you have in between horizontal and vertical ?
an inv V would work maybe with the same result like vertical...
@@YLRaisa compared the same stations on my vertical , some signals are better on inverted V , but others not so good. When you were in the cave , you were stronger on the vertical than inverted V 🤔
Boa noite, quais os links dos mastros utilizados ?
This is DX Commander mast ! see you! Raisa
@@YLRaisa o valor dela fica longe da minha realidade. Recomenda outra ?
I hope to work your Serbian YL friend YL/OM in the future.😅😅
73&88 de ZS5DG
Do you think a 45 degree dipole would do anything differently than the vertical and horizontal? Thanks sharing! KE8RJD
I think it depends on many aspects, for instance if you are in the city or nature is your shack. But no big difference ;-)
@@YLRaisa ok I’m on holiday in Tennessee by a lake I guess my question is a sloper vrs a horizontal or vertical lol getting ready to setup station soon
Raisa, you should try sometime on your rigs that support receive antennas using a vertical and horizontal at the same time. I have heard myself the reduction in fading on the band as a signal goes from horizontal to vertical. This is one of the ways of doing diversity receive. Thanks for the video.
Yes but I think you need a phasing line to achieve circular polarization. 73 de IZ3GOA Sergio.
nice idea, TNX, I will try to try it
@@sergioborghesan6318 No you can use 2 antennas, one in each ear and hear it. Phasing is a completely different type of diversity. Phasing requires processing in a device to phase the signals and diff them. My Apache Labs Anan has phasing where as the Flexradio I have will do the fading as long as I have both a horizontal and vertical antenna tied in. Also realize I am not talking about transmitting. This is receiving.
Ok, now is clear Don! It would be very interesting to compare at the same time two audio from two receivers. Thank you! My best 73. IZ3GOA Sergio.
@@sergioborghesan6318 Yes, that would be interesting.
Nice video, the results are interesting. I think out in the field with no structures it might not make a difference, but maybe near buildings that block signals it might make a difference. But for a park, like they say, just throw a wire up and start talking!
Yes, you are right! :)
Hi Raisa..nice place for a good experience, in my opinions to have a real results between that antennas the switch must disconnect GND and main conductor..when you have finish this video, how you have recover the cable so high ? '73
recover...??Alessandro, what do you mean? it was no big problem with the cable at 5 meter feed point. There are many trees there ;-)
Very interesting test and results Raisa. Thanks for the video! 73 from Ireland.
Thanks for watching!
73, Raisa HA/DG2BDN 🇭🇺👋
Nice blue nails. Very pretty.
😆
Beautiful women get all the views, but it’s nice to see some intelligent ones not just flaunting their bodies, but their minds to.
Thank you for appreciating the mind, not just the beauty of the body :)
Для коротких волн поляризация имеет значение только радиосвязи поверхностной волной. А при отражении от ионосферы это уже не важно, какая поляризация.
Спасибо. Буду знать :). Из практики познаю и запоминаю больше :)
Different positions 😊 This video promise to be really interesting 😅
😂😂😂
Only DX Commander's pole was touched.
Тут еще такой момент, в этом переключателе у тебя при переключении второй порт все равно подключен через емкость разомкнутого контакта. Т.е. ослабление конечно есть, но около 20-30дб (можно померять точней). Так что эксперимент не совсем чистый 😉 Я улучшал развязку между портами если отключенный порт подключается на нагрузку. Но лучше 30-35дб развязать не получается. 73!
Олег, ты, конечно, прав. Наша переключалка (made by RA1AMO) тоже вносит свою лепту. А вот у меня есть старый Кенвуд, там два гнезда антенных, можно сразу 2 антенны вставить в него. Так будет более чистый эксперимент или это тоже самое?
@@YLRaisa я думаю так будет более честно. Можно посмотреть какая там изоляция между входами. Подключить сигнал к 1 входу, а слушать на 2. А вообще как тут уже писали на КВ поляризация не так сильно влияет. Где-то слышал что в пределах 3дб всего, это полбалла по S-метру.
Raisa in in gravidance...???🤔🤔🤔
0:16 Big Raisa , by Stefano Tonussi in north east Italy 🇮🇹💗🇷🇺
97% of hf Yagi beams are horizontal I wonder why
maybe easier to build? 73! Raisa
Exactly Raisa. Horizontal elements do not interact with any support pole. A vertically polarized yagi with long elements would be near impossible to support without interaction with the support mast unless it was non metallic.
Hate to mention this but Putin's regain for the next 6 years find strange that her U Tube was reactraced.
Great video! de W2CSI