Barely 2 years into the marriage, he said ‘ I should try going out with other men to see that no one will ever treat me better than him’. I was mortified. That’s the day I knew that everything is just going to go downhill. I didn’t take lightly to being asked to cheat in a marriage especially. I didn’t because it’s out of my moral code & I have self esteem. Safe to say we are headed to a divorce now.
I told my husband I needed more sex....lol.. which ended the sex life...BUT, he said, "go F black guys" .... I just looked at him and asked him why they have to be black... and then told him the biggest dick I ever had was on a skinny white boy from Sheffield London....and the smallest was on a black man" lol...
Love bomb just to turn around and not meet any of your needs (push/pull) (avoidant attachment) or bread crumb you, and push you away to have you betray him in the end, because of his low self esteem that he feels that subconciously he is not good enough to be genuinely loved to fulfil his actual subconcious inside experience. Mind fuck. Toxic. We can’t love them out of their toxicity.
Dr. Vaknin knows what he's talking about. Narcissists always engineer situations so they win. But if their victim is aware, those very same situations can often be changed in subtle and not so subtle ways that can cause everything to backfire on the narcissist. That's the power of knowledge and these videos certainly help in that regard. Thank you for your perspective, Dr. Vaknin.
This podcast has made me laugh finally and makes perfect sense after my recent discard by my narcissist lover. I was missing the shared fantasy and thought I was brainwashed and losing my mind. In a trance. He was such a charmer, love bomber, shocked to the core when he suggest I find a new man! This really upset me. My friends couldn't understand how I would put up with it. There was triangulation too. I waited for his text to then be gas lighted again, I was the perfect candidate for his situationship. He finally steered me into the discard, and alternate end. Thank god I'm out and amazed how quickly I'm returning to my normal happy self again 🙏😁 I feel like I could write a book on the subject yet listening to your podcast, no need, you've already covered everything I have experienced.
They ignore you, they put you aside and everything in order to make you cheat, because they are already cheating and they are trying to cover their infidelity by pointing you out as a cheater.
I have seen my daughter with this man for almost 20 years Kia 16 years older than her she has two children by him and I have seen him just chip and chip away at her mind everything that Dr Victor is talking about I've seen him do just that to her get her to cheat on him she's got a boyfriend now I'm still married I don't see how she goes from her boyfriend's bed to her husband's bed but he refused to sleep with her that's when she found another man but she was already cheating with other men and he knew about it and he told her Bethel tell her that she wasn't right that her husband was wrong to do that I was always afraid that he'd sell her they have a daughter and a son he has three grown children all daughters now he has a son and he acts so different to his son than he ever did his daughters in my opinion he's more meaner to him he's a last of his children I have been wanting to take him away from him forever but my daughter is still there with her son and he's still in the house with her and her kids that's where he sickens me out a lot of times and I just don't know what to do
Wow Doc. I have been consistently researching Narcissism only for the past 6 months- persistently searching for the exact answer as to what the hell my ex-gf just did to me and I now have the answer after watching this video. I had been in a state of fully engulfed shame and shock over the suicidality that was drawn out of me over the emotional manipulation and abuse that I withstood pretty well until that perfect perfect button got pressed at a moment where I specifically requested emotional support I couldn’t understand why she became so dark and ugly towards me but now I do. Now and only now have I found peace of mind and a resolution to my pain. Thank you Sam Vaknin 🙏🏾
Why do they pretend to be good people? My ex said he was sorry to me at our divorce deposition, just so the lawyers in the room would hear him. They are loners but they need a spouse, they are not capable of socializing alone.
To maintain an image of perfection. If they feel that they have lost control of that image then they would try to salvage that image to appear redeeming.
You described how I felt my ex saw our relationship exactly! He was a loner in his own life and resented my presence. He developed his own life, own plans, own sex life and on and on. I didn’t know why he bothered to marry.
This story resonates tremendously. But it's not just about cheating in the romantic sense. Because I became ill and had a bone tumor, I was apparently no longer of value. My ex-narc went behind my back into business dealings with relations (as well as competitors) of my company. She was terrified that I would get my hands on her cell phone, which she guarded with her body. In the end, she was full of secrets. She collected flying monkeys, and humiliated me (while we were still living together) among our friends by throwing trash talk around. Completely empathy-less, after a 20-year relationship with two children in which I had literally picked her up from the gutter. I was not familiar with narcissistic personality disorders yet at the time, if only that were true, I would have ended the relationship much earlier. An eye-opener for me was hearing from friends that she was telling everyone that I had fabricated the tumor (for which I had undergone four surgeries).... From then on, I cut off all contact. I now see her as an empty, pathetic, emotionless shell that cannot be called a human being. As if her soul has been shifted in relation to her body. Her love bombing attempts now hit a very thick wall. I have become very sensitive towards red flags, something that is very much to my liking. Not a microcell in my brain that would consider allowing these types of "people" to enter my life any further.
@@ginagjuniort You don't have to. I think it was Sun Tzu that said: "The only way to win a war, is to deny a battle". After you studied a bit on the concept of NPD, you will understand that their level of empathy is so low or non-existing that it is impossible to have a healthy relationship with them; they harm you, slowly, bit by bit. Year after year, until you take responsibility for your own well-being.
I'm sorry you went through all of that. These people will go to any lengths to stay in control of their false narrative(s). I was accused of faking my debilitating autoimmune condition that was diagnosed by several doctors. Crazy and exhausting 😪
Wow, I'm in it right now. I'm 45. Been with her since I was 18. 2 kids. I knew nothing of narcissism until 5 months ago. My eyes have been forced open I am in a very bad, dark place. I thought it was a fairytale, but always struggled. I have had ulcerative colitis and fibromyalgia for 17 years. My nervous system is in tatters. The jigsaw pieces have fallen into place and I am terrified.
@@jakestown1952I understand your pain. I've married a narcissist and we have two great children together. I was not a perfect husband but I always loved her. I ignored so many red flags so I can call myself a victim off my own success. She's 10 years younger than me so I was blaming everything on her Immaturity. For me knowledge about narcissism was pretty much a guy who changes girls like gloves and doesn't care about them. I didn't know that narcissism can be applied to a woman. What I've learned about narcissism after I was threatened with police and manipulation is much darker the my previous view on narcissist.
This to a tee is what happened to me. He played on my guilt and shame. Acted like I destroyed him and he wanted to make it work. Only to love bomb me to get me convinced we were good, and then he released the war. He slept with my sister, my best friend at the time, and many, many others I don’t know about, but know about. Literally 8 years of hell when I should have followed what I already knew. Now free of him. Thank you for your wisdom. It helps me heal from this lesson in life.
This happened to me. Pushed and pressured me into this swinger crap to make him happy and save our marriage. I still regret it to this day. I was so disgusted with myself.
The ultimate narcissist punishment is to prevent the partner from having the narcissist. The narcissist is in a relationship with himself (false self) in a shared fantasy.
It's amazing to hear you speak. In my situation, my narc husband pushed me into a physical altercation the day I was supposed to leave his physical presence for the first time in 3 years (he used the virus to instill fear and control me, but that's another story). After I left the isolated environment he had me in, a trip that was only for a couple of days, he orchestrated a complete implosion of our marriage, contacting the authorities, reporting the fight, and filing a domestic violence petition against me, illegally barring me from our child for nearly 2 weeks before the petition was thrown out of court. Once that plan didn't work, he fled the country and has been gone ever since. He's forced me into a situation where I now have to file for full custody of our child, thus stripping him of his parental rights. He will live the rest of his life permanently and irreversibly as the guy who was in a bad marriage where he was a "battered victim" and his evil, powerful ex "took his son!" when really it was completely designed and executed by him, devastating our family and jolting me awake from the shared fantasy. His actions were purely designed to end the relationship in a way that would prevent us from ever being together. Just to throw salt on the wound, his actual, biological mother helped him execute this. Thanks to Prof Vaknin, it all makes sense after just a few months. But I'm sure he faced mortification because for the first time in years, my entire family showed up to protect me after years of no contact that I did to honor his wishes. Anyway, this could have been a lifelong wound without your help, prof!
11:07 Legend Lee, when I was hung up it was infinitely helpful to hear you remind me going back wasn't a good idea. He didn't want me at that stage, now I'm done he does want me to want him again but I don't and you can't fall inlove after such severe heartbreak when they discard you
Dr Vaknin…you were my very first source of awareness of narcissism, as far back as late 1990’s with your posts. I was so desperately seeking explanations for the madness in my life. Then internet has exploded, finally, with lots of information for personal growth and awareness for such behaviors and those interacting with narcissists. But you were the first to open my eyes. I thank you for your part in waking up the world to the games weak minds play at other’s expense.
Aaaaah, oh yez, the betrayal fantasy! Thank you for this. I’m in the middle of a breaking up with a narcissist and now I see what’s going on. I was drowned in guilt and now I know why. Marvelous
OMG! That explains everything, my behavior, just everything,they love playing the victim, they have no other way to get out of a relationship like normal people
My narcissist ex stalked me for 1.5 years during which I had to get a Protection Order against him. He violated the court’s order over and over again. He got arrested and convicted twice, then I had to file a motion to extend the PPO after it ended because he wouldn’t stop following me. During the last hearing we had in this regard, he put on a performance in front of the judge claiming to be innocent and that I am the one stalking him, that something is wrong with me, that I am jealous of his new partner, and that I can’t move on etc.. the poor victim 😂 In other words, he was frustrated and annoyed that he was held accountable for his violations of the law and that I was reinforcing my boundaries. In his mind, I am stalking him by not allowing him to stalk me. Imagine how insane he looked and sounded like when the judge pulled out the case’s history and all the evidence attached.
The same with my ex he blocked me than unblocked to Hoover me with a text and said “ what’s your problem why did you block me” I just laughed because he’s look for a reaction/response to crawl back in my life. I just left him on read 😂😂😂😂😂
I discovered an ex had been passively stalking his first ex from over 10+ years ago. (through social media) I think most never let go of anyone who got through the idealized/infatuation stage with them. Scary f**kers.
The forcing part at 15:45 resonated deeply. I felt so unlike myself when he (with absolute conviction and charm) forced me to cheat. His reasoning made so much sense to me at the time looking back I feel sick to my stomach how out of control I was with my own self.
😂 The number of (mainly) women commenting here about their relief that they now realize 'didn't really cheat' but were 'forced to' is hilarious 😂 To be fair, I find Mr Vaknin's explanation compelling, and it made me understand a few of my own experiences with narcissistic (and abusive) ex-partners, including occasions of being 'pushed to cheat'. The difference being that I resisted the urge. I am not claiming to be of superior virtue; only that, had I not resisted and had I ended up cheating instead, the ultimate responsibility would still have been squarely mine, regardless of the messed up manipulations of my ex.
🤮🤮🤮 A despicable person would be celebrating the emotional low the others when they have experienced predation the loneliness, etc. I took him out of the house and looked for a new partner, but I would never fell superiority of other people trying to get affection whily they are in hell. This same doctor advises seeking romantic physical relief and not neglecting your needs when you have a narcissist in your life.
My ex left me for my long time frienemy, she is a narcissist for sure. She did to him the things he did to me only I had spent longer with him and we were more serious in my mind. They were just FWB, but she led him on to get me out of the picture and she did me a favour bad.
Cheating would require being in a RELATIONSHIP! A narcissist is never in a relationship with you, and they have not only TOLD you, SHOWED YOU,WROTE it out for you in every and which way, from the exceptional amounts of silent treatments AT WILL, for ample periods of time, to the GRANDIOSE outright statements of perpetually letting you know that YOU DO NOT HAVE THE ABILITY to 1) state your concerns,opinions,wants,needs,responses, emotions on any topic, 2)have your own likes, hobbies that are contrary to theirs,3) a schedule of their everyday life that could contradict theirs, or imposes any threat! LETS BE HONEST HERE, the NARCISSIST doesn't even call cheating,it's biologically ingrained in them that THEY DONT BELONG TO ANYONE, and project it as such! I want to change the actual phrase to The Narcissist Pushes The Partner To SURVIVE, LIVE, AND TO HAVE the Confidence/COurage to know you can be happy without ,them and truly find a worthy human being! Narcissists know they are evil filled, and rather than total destruction of their partner bc they know that requires the inevitable DESTRUCTION of themselves, (and they don't have the ability to get back up and become healthy and actually thrive) so as the saying goes "THEY perpetually LAck foresight and ALWAYS ALWAYS injure themselves, if it's not a purposeful MASOCHIST, it's AN UNAWARE MASOCHIST! A theory that can not be totally dismissed! Constant seeking of self inflicting PAIN,TORTURE, and PRE MEDITATED METHODICAL orchestrated self BETRAYAL? ABSOLUTELY fall in said category.
I am tremendously grateful for your insights on this subject. Particularly at this period of time when Narcissist con-men have been featured in the main stream, trying to cover there lies and controlling manipulations of their "Victims" .
This episode is next level. If you have not learned how to control and hide your feelings YOU WILL FAIL! Resulting in being seen as the problem. Pay special attention to what he says at 12 minutes and 47 seconds……
My first bf used to look for anything to have an argument with me, but since I could see what he was doing I didn't join him. That made him so uncomfortable and uneasy that I'm pretty sure he never enjoyed my company. I was able to spot what he was doing. He wanted me to mistreat him so that he could have a reason to get away from me. Unfortunately for him, I treated him with love and respect although I knew what he was doing. This made him very furious and couldn't stop looking for ways to make me feel angry at him until he succeeded and I left him. I was astonished, I couldn't understand why he wanted to push me away from him when I loved him and respected him, but I also discovered that some of his relatives mistreated him and he didn't do anything about it. So my conclusion was that he didn't want to be loved, he wanted to be hated and mistreated so anyone who loves him will be pushed away. My last bf used to tell me "leave me if that's what you want" whenever I wanted to talk to him about something that was bothering me about our relationship. I never said anything about breaking up. I wasn't even thinking about leaving him, but he told me those same words many times instead of letting me talk about what I was feeling. I guess he knew I was going to leave him someday but he wanted to feel he had control of that situation. So if he said "leave me if you want" and after that I left him, he would feel like he made me leave him, so there's no reason for him to feel sad or ashamed. Of course I eventually left him. They push so hard that they succeed.
Ηe constantly and systematically pushed me to do things I never imagined I would do. It brought to light a version of myself which I didn't like at all and that, after all, wasn't me. And then, exactly that was the excuse to kick me out of his life.
WHAT?!?!?! this makes an absurd amount of sense, you're a genius. I tried for SO LONG to figure out why my ex kept trying to get me to sleep with other women.
I just finally did it. He told me that the only way he'd divorce me is if I cheated. I used it as my ticket out. I was so mental that I really thought it was the only exit.
@anna carter I didnt really see it coming. I never believed such a dark person could exist in sunlight. And, I'd never heard of a Narc until after the divorce papers were filed and I'd slept enough to get back to basic comprehension again.
Your talking is such a wonderful relief. I was driven to thought for 27 years I was the Sick one. Still counting as we have children together. Your are a treasure you can save lives just explaining through words!!!!
I understand the tactic. He can leave the relation without looking bad by his "supposed" peers but a narcassist don't have peers because in his mind he stands above everyone else - it is just something he don't get exposed.
No, I think Sam was saying that the Narc would risk being embarrassed in front of friends and family to ensure he could Discard his partner and feel justified along with never having to deal with said partner stalking him. A “Twofer”
I have been following you since 2008, and you have helped me understand the most confounding things that I have encountered in relationships, situations that would have caused me emotional and situational ruin! This video is a must see! Explains so much!
This video helped me so much! He engineered 100 percent for me to go to the cops (that turned out to be his close friends unbeknownst to me) and report to them a crime he admitted to but that I found out never actually happened, at least not that particular crime. But he is an extremely dangerous criminal and planned on having me killed. Long story, anyway thank you for the explanation!
What about the narcissist who cannot force his partner to cheat, but fabricates a story of HER cheating on HIM in order to play the victim and turn everyone against her? This could cause the partner so much anguish that she dumps him! So the N has achieved his goal of getting rid of his intimate partner!
Mine was trying to do the same thing. But I am not that kind of person so he’s claiming that I must have been doing something. This is while he been cheating for a whole year and a half.
Professor, thank you. I now understand a great piece of the puzzle that was beyond my comprehension of why a worthy, upright person would lose all credibility. You explained it beautifully in those closing lines....the narcissist's mind games are truly beyond comprehension of the lay person. This helps me bring to closure quite a few issues and some niggling suspicions carried on for close to over five decades. Undoubtedly you are an ace in these matters, thank you for sharing your incisive and thorough understanding of the absolutely convoluted workings of the narcissist's mind. Mind boggling as it was to unravel, you helped me unravel some inner demons of a long forgotten past in my early years. Thank you Professor. I just want you to know you are a brick when it comes to sharing all this profound knowledge.
My husband of 32 years never tried to make me cheat, but he sure loved to meet up with others. Right before his cancer got bad, he let his family know he’d been living a double life with some gold digger in another city(it wasn’t strange because we kept a boat there), and of course as soon as their secret got out, that crumbled and he came back for me(mommy) to take care of him for his last 4 months. After all the deceptions and betrayals, I still felt sorry for him and I’m sad he’s dead but the reality is that if he were still alive, my torture would continue. I had to watch him have his fantasy life with some whore in havasu who was only to happy to be a dirty little secret, that was gut wrenching. Then I got to take care of him for the last time and watch him die, also gut wrenching…so much devastation, chaos and sadness. It’s really sad to realize that this type of person could have the best love, and instead they just throw it away and leave us to sink or swim, on our own.
I'm blown away that you don't have 50 replies. My husband is a slut screwing pig all of our entire marriage. I found communication numbers going back 5 years on 2 of his sluts plus one lady that goes back to nearly our beginning. Married 29 of 30 years together and I personally stopped sleeping with him (intimate) over 20 years ago but still he would never give me a divorce and I couldn't do anything, I was medical, horribly depressed in to a corner in the living room couch where I lived for apx 15 years, day and night, sleep, eat, stay constant in that corner 😔. Such a horrible sick life with a psycho freak abuser who took away every single speck of family, friends, clubs, neighbors, social networks, even doctors he'd call. He screwed my so called best friend in the house and in the Van, 2 separate times, both times I was asleep here, he did it right under my nose like his other whores.
RG...perfect example of how Narcissits think they can fool absolutely anyone...cant believe he took you on! So wrapped up in themselves...find it really funny actually....because my narc neighbour has exactly the same mind set. But one thing I have that she will never have is your knowledge..shes not intelligent enough! Thank you Sam!
Hey, everyone! I was watching one of Sam Vaknin's videos about individuation, where Richard Grannon was also present and suddenly it became unavailable. I got a prompt from RUclips that said "This video is no longer available because Richard Grannon Spartanlifecoach claimed author rights" (I translated from my language). The funny thing is even if Richard Grannon was in the video, it was Sam Vaknin doing the talking, at least that's what I saw half hour in. I am so upset, because now that valuable information is no longer reachable. How can Richard Grannon claim author rights on that video, if Sam Vaknin is doing the talking? Or is he just doing that claim to videos wherever he is present? Now I am worried he is trying to cancel Prof. Sam Vaknin. Shame on you, Richard Grannon!
Yes. He has been filing dozens of bogus copyright claims on all my channels in an attempt to terminate them. This is why I haven't been uploading new content: my account is disabled by Grannon's false claims.
@@samvaknin I'm so sorry to hear about this! I hope that RUclips does the right thing and your channel is back to normal. You've been of immense help to so many people! We need you here. Your approach is scientific and informative, in a way I haven't seen anywhere else. It seems that Richard Grannon is stealing your ideas too (terms you invented) and now trying to shut you down.
I understand about this mind gaming strategy! You see my father was an electrical engineer, the smartest person I have ever known, has never acted like this. So when you say the word engineered, my father was a self made engineer, and he would have never dreamed of acting like this. I have my fathers mind and personality and I have learned alot of important life lessons from him, this is why narcisists cannot take advantage of me and my mind. He always told me to think for myself in every situation, I have listened to him and he is so right, what a valuable life lesson this is. This is crazy and unstable behavior by narcisissits, unbelievable. I dated and was married to narcissits, I understand this completely, although I never cheated on anyone, the narcissit did. What do you say to the narcissist cheating? So terrible. I am a smart person and I think this is the most underhanded, cruel, cold blooded, evil, stupid and manipulative tatic I have ever seen, I have seen other manipulative tatics done by bad people before. This however is absolutely insane and crazy!❣️
You are God sent Dr. Vaknin! My narcissistic husband would offer me up to friends of his that he looked up to. At the time I didn’t quite see what he was doing but it make total sense to me now! If I have learned anything from you, that is to NOT cheat! I understand now why this is so important. I appreciate you so much. Thank you♥️
Thank you! This made things more clear and supports the process of understandment and healing after I got trapped by my narcissistic ex-partner. You will be left back with an incredible huge feeling of blame, even I was not cheating! To reduce this it is so important to gain knowledge about those principles. Therapy helped a lot and of course eye-opening lectures like this. Thank you Prof. Vaknin!
Imagine a beautiful basket of fruit. Red shiney apples. Waiting to be at thier best. A rotten one is at the bottom, thus poisoning the entire basket full. My 9 year marriage. If you can survive being with a narcissist. BRAVO❤
My bf is constantly accusing me of cheating. He bruises my body during sex and then says these marks are proof that I have been with someone else and I must like it rough. I tell him he's made the marks and I have never cheated but he never let's up. He takes photos of the bruises and it's constant accusations. I know I need to leave him.
this is. exactly my experience. exactly. the. same. damn. thank you sam. thank you so much for your honesty.. and sharing this with us all.. this really hits home, and i really think itll help so many in the same situation. very clarifying. very smoke-clearing..
Never thought that a person can have such an influence on me, but indeed he had it. Since the beginning I had a bad feeling & we met as lovers only for one month. I think I was the one, who engineered the break up. I couldn't understand what is going wrong: I met the man of my dreams, but after we met I felt weak, sick, without energy. I wasn't able to concentrate on other things but him & I hated it! So I had sharing information that he told me to all people around, asking them what they think about it. One of my good friends who was worried about me started stalking him. After a while he asked me for a conversation, but I didn't react positively. Two weeks later he had someone else & I refused to meet him personally. So he broke up the contact. He said to me that he wasn't sure if he had ever wanted a relationship with me. Since I know that narcissists in most of the cases chooses mentally ill & broken women with low self-esteem, I see his words as a compliment.
2nd question on Narcs being subconscious, thank you for answering my 1st. How the hell can all this be so tactfully executed if it is unconscious?? It seems Narc actions are so thoroughly planned, but if I have understood you correctly, only psychopaths will PLAN their actions. - Thank you
Bravo Professor, After my experience with my first and LAST Narcissist, he used cruel horrible remarks to finally run me out of his house for good. I had left him 10 times for bad behavior ( drinking and cheating). I know, your thinking 10 red flags and you kept coming back? But you see Professor, he was brilliant, terribly handsome, organized, gifted, talented to a high degree, and I was smitten! I was going to heal this fabulous man so obviously in pain. (DUH) my second mistake. In any case, he discarded and ghosted me, and in doing so, he had rid himself of me. There is no way he could convince me to cheat. So he found an alternative in his discard of me. The amount of mental derangement and heartbreak for me was enormous. I did a years worth of research on mental diseases and came to the fact that I had been snared but a very crafty Narcissist. Your talk today was succinct kind Sir. Many Thank.
Kept insisting there was someone else. Together 7 months. His ex cheated, he cheated. I didn't, but positive he's been telling everyone I did since his discard 3 weeks ago. Was freaking annoying.
Incredible video, you could be describing my experience to-a-tee. Your closing comments about Brainwashing are chilling. After I escaped my narcissist-ex joined the EDUCO cult and remains in it. Thank you Sam.
Sam… can you explain why my covert narcissist spouse cheats and has an affair with another woman, living a secret life for 8 years, dividing up his week with both of us … including sleeping with both of us, giving the same excuse he was away working? He often traveled with his Highway Improvement Company so that was a given.🙄 He never left me or expressed a desire to divorce… and of course lied to my face about having an affair. Learned ALL this after his death with the other woman in a helicopter crash. He lied to her too, saying he was divorced… then divorced became separated. It all makes me crazy. No closure. Married 45 years with 2 adult daughters. I never cheated.
that is fucking awful. i just came across a male covert narcissist. they are pathalogical liars and will do anything to take resources. your body in your case, your money, your attention. they love to be the 'puppet master' , and win in any and every interaction. they believe the world is dog eat dog and you take yours. but they pretend to be good people and play on your insecurities. however the older they get , they arent that fuckin smart. they just really prey upon good people. its sickening. Im so sorry for you. that is straight up EVIL and i would describe basically any covert narcissist as evil. And its fucking concious to which is what we do not think. its crazy. im lucky i got out of 12 y with covert narcissist and randomly then made friends with male covert narch that did nothing but steal.
Why do some men do everything to push their partners out, but yet do everything to try and keep them when they're ready to leave? I've witnessed several very toxic men do this and they use guilt to keep their wives with them. Is this more likely a psychopath at work?
Another feminist who thinks all men are evil. Lot more women are damaging men in relationship by their manipulative I change my mind than men. The women of now are men and men are women
Wow, this explains why my stbex tried, and tried to get me have sex with other men. He didn't succeed, I was grossed out and kept pushing back. I would confront him with his own self proclaimed morals. It never made sense to me. Intuitively I knew he wanted it for himself. But when i pushed back he would say: its just a fantasy, ofcourse I dont want you to sleep with other men. Acvording to him this started after hos 2 previpus wives cheated on him. Towards the end of our marriage I started to believe that he had pushed them to sleep with other men, like he tried with me. That they did not cheat on him as he tells everyone. Holy moly, I'm learning something new every day. My refusal was the turning point in our marriage. He then started withdrewing intimacy. Called me clingy, needy, not respecting him. He then claimed he has ED. Towards the end of our marriage he started cheating on me.
Sam I just dumped my narcissistic boyfriend and I he was always trying to fix me up to live with his male friends. I could see what he was doing. I told him " I'm not going to live with your male friends period !" and that's all I said.
I think they find joy in the result of this process. The narcissist has engineered this whole thing (control) and then gets to claim themselves as the victim therefore getting their supply. He will brag about how horrible the cheating was and gain sympathy from others.
I knew a narc just like this with a history of cheating women in his past. He would never say "I may have been ruthless" or anything of the kind. His recount of things was that he was "too forgiving". That was his only part in his failed relationships according to his thoughts on the matter.
Wow, so true! He would recommend that I reach out to someone he knew, and when I did the response was, Why would you contact my friend? So f'd up. Although he thinks he's the puppet master, his mother really is. I've tried to enlighten both of them with their behavior and am done trying to understand something that I don't wish to comprehend. 🙂
Married for almost 34 years. Yes, he pushed me to cheat, yet I NEVER did. I do however understand his anger about it now though. He even told me straight to my face to do so on many occasions as well, without any success. He even sent his friend for years to come by while the kids are at school and he at work. I wíll not be dictated to who I am and what I will and will not do. I also absolutely refúse to take revenge. I don't have to anyway...he's doing a phenomenal job at destroying himself all by himsélf. I will hold on to myself till the day I die. I am ME and nobody gets to control that but me. ALSO: All your explanations makes sense, except for one: Why then would they hoover to get you back, if you have overstayed your welcome in their lives; love bomb you to do it all yet again?
After creating our world where he couldn’t possibly live without me…he constantly accused me of cheating, told me constantly to go be with this, that and the other, pushed me away emotionally, mentally and physically and as a codependent I wouldn’t leave. He withdrew in every way and I was trying to be that person he couldn’t live without. I actually made myself 100% available to him to my detriment of course. When I disintegrated in self worth and esteem, it made total sense that I thought myself less than and someone everyone could live without. He was pissed that he couldn’t push me to betray him and I was then clingy, needy and underfoot. He created a cheating scenario between me and someone he knew and invested in that belief in order to discard. He got rid of me and was able to experience the betrayal. I never did cheat or even come close to cheating but that’s how he expected to be humiliated, worked so hard towards and ultimately in his mind was narcissistically injured. I moved 100s of miles away out of reach to keep myself from going back and didn’t defend myself (although, I knew no one from being isolated for so long) and he was able to be the victim in his community. I didn’t expose him for who he was because I didn’t even know the extent of it until the fog lifted after a year gone and no one was going to believe I stayed (only knowing who I was before this relationship) thru that kind of nightmare. Easier to disappear. Hopefully the shared fantasy is severed in the absence of betrayal.
@@donoharm510 thank God I journaled or I never would've believed what happen. I was a stranger to myself in my own writing. Unravel is the greatest word. Wishing you a clear path towards healing as well 😊
@@KiMb3rMc when I read back my journals through the years I can't find myself. It's eerie. All disjuncted and almost like stream of thought. I only remember maybe one tenth of it. It is like visiting an alien world and being immersed in it with no language learning or instructions on customs of the late of the land. Like Babel. This last relationship I started to navigate the inner space with a little awareness. It was on the heels of taking care of my dad who fits the covert narc script. I put myself in therapy and journaled like crazy. That maze was eye opening. We battled each other to the end...well his end. He died peacefully with his hands folded over his heart in his sleep. I was so freed of guilt for the first time I can remember. I remembered loving him as a child and in his aftermath that memory supplanted the shame and pain I saw him in his and my whole life. I think he tried to amend in some way but my rejection and suspicion of him won while he was alive. It was then I came in union with the narc relationship. Somehow I had enough of a reset to almost see what his calculations were. My instinct and intuitions kept kicking in and insulated me from the more searing effects of betrayal and games. Then I found these priceless videos. I am six months away from the narcs games after 9 months of being steeped in the fantasy. I still have grief and the addiction is real and I abstain with distance. Finding my way with self love as clumsy as I am at it. Protect people from me as my BPD activated. Long journey. God help us all on whatever spectrum we are.
Okay but when he left me for another woman, I was happy he was gone. When he called and heard me at the gym laughing he came back and stole my car, tried to steal a dog I rescued after he left and tried to destroy me again because I didn't chase him and found happiness without him. I then mortified him for filling a stolen car charge and the cops contacted him at his mom's 85th birthday party infront of his entire family and many friends. 5 months later he came back but my new boyfriend protected me.... How can I get this antisocial personality man to leave me alone???? Please help
I'm glad the boyfriend protected you, maybe now he'll stop his shenanigans since he knows u moved on. I'll still get a restraining order against him through the court though
Document everything he does, don't let nothing slide keep holding him accountable! And most of all don't let him come between u and your boyfriend. He'll sink his self bc he thinks he's above the law and that's where you're going to get him at.
@@empressb444 unfortunately in Pennsylvania you can only get a Protection From Abuse order and when I tried to get one in May 2022 they made me feel stupid. I have been told to try again but I am afraid of getting dismissed by the court again as if I am dump
@Sandy Cardamon oh wow, well I'm glad you have a man that's willing to protect you from him. I hope it works out, eventually he'll go away they don't really want confrontation like that especially if it gets physical
This is the first time I heard about this and as a normal person you cannot wrap your mind around it. I didn't cheat although he "organized" everything with his friend behind my back. I actually intuitively sensed it and I even understood the thinking behind it - not in all aspects as you pointed it out - but overall. The way these people think is soooo alien, just incredible!
There is no such thing as forcing someone to cheat/betray. If the partner is being pushed away as you say, then they should leave the relationship without cheating. There needs to be far more accountability taken by the cheater.
I believe Sam is referring to any act of perceived betrayal; cheating is the most obvious and universally understood example. Sam is essentially describing what is more commonly referred to as "baiting". The narc sets the target up to fail so that any normal, defence/ response to his abuse and mistreatment is portrayed to others as a form of abuse in itself. This 'abuse'/ betrayal (I.e the result of falling into a baited trap, where failure is guaranteed) is then used to garner endless supply in the form of eternal victimhood and to avoid any accountability for the behaviours, attitudes and delusions that harmed the relationship in the first place.
You are correct but This is the thing… what ends up happening is, the partner doesn’t want to end the relationship because they love the narc… The Narc know what the the person needs/wants because they are actively withholding it in the relationship and they strategically put someone in the place that they know will provide what they are withholding to the partner… it’s essentially a calculated tease hoping the partner takes the bait to further help the Narc to devalue the partner and prove their own delusion that “everyone will leave me anyways”. It’s a sick and twisted mindset with a plot and actions that ends up hurting the Narc at the end, hence the title of the video.
@@stefal22 I'm not denying that a narc brings chaos. But cheating and causing more chaos is a total lack of accountability. It really is a simple issue.
@@SheebaRaye exactly. It doesn't have to be cheating. I bet most often it's not cheating and other things. Goals unmet, other ways the person can not measure up on an unagreed upon set of rules.
@@stefal22 WRONG! When we are simply walking to the car, and EVIL enters our space and steals our safety - we are victims. Ppl in narc relationships are NOT victims. We have free will. We can say "no." We can leave. Therefore, we actively welcome victimization (meaning the sins against us) BECAUSE we are working out familial legacies or something (I will fix it; I will turn chaos into calm; my childhood will be rewritten into something that works). No mistake, though, every sin against us that we rationalize away proves we are not victims even though we are being harmed or victimized. Cheating is a choice regardless of what motivates one to cheat. The cheater is ALWAYS wrong. It doesn't matter what rationale the cheater uses to justify cheating. If you cannot honor your vows, you say "goodbye." Partner isn't meeting your needs? Discussion, debate, therapy, LEAVE. You cannot be manipulated into cheating.
Interesting. So really it is the ultimate narcissistic injury if you absolutely refuse to fall into the trap they set for you? I could definitely see the way this narcissistic individual I knew was starting to unravel when I started to back away from his increasing weirdness. And left - before I was excessively tempted to do something (like cheating with him while his wife was dying) I would regret, or that could be used against me. Thank you, instincts. And don’t worry, he made it very well known he found someone else to cheat with instead. I was supposed to be jealous, I suppose 🙄🤦♀️.
It all makes sense now. My Narc passed away 5 months ago. He knew he was dying , I did not! He stalked me for a whole year then his son continued it for 4 months afterwards....He used his pd connections to do it. He worked in Forensics and had a non profit business helping ptsd patients, ironic! He turned everything around because he hated if his image got harmed by me!!!! The week I started to let go, he passed away! How cruel they try so hard to put us in trouble for what THEY did!!!! He called my husband of 31 years!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes! He hated his friends found out about us and boy! All this year of doing his revenge because of that. And yes, rejection from me was the initial problem. He told all my neighbors friends bad things about me because again, his image had to stay intact!!!! He passed away from Internal Bleeding!
I think that the shame which the narcissist feels is related to the father. Subconsciously, he feels guilty for not separating from his mother and kind of taking her away from him. That's why part of the shared fantasy involves cheating on the partner. In this way he returns his mother to her husband and his father and now he can feel relief and eventually individuate.
I hate to say it, but Sam is 100% correct on this, in my work with abuse victims, I have seen this many times, I Intuitively knew what the narcissist had done & why. This is the first time I've heard anyone else talk about this, it's bloody diabolica &l hard to wrap your head around, unless had experience of it, would never pick up on it or believe it, once again, I hate to say ... Sam has nailed it!
Ps. It's even more horrific for victims to realise even their own 'cheating' comfort was completely orchestrated controlled by the narcissist and they again had played right into his hands. So I don't tell clients as it only hurts them even more. I just help them out stay out not go back into it with him or another narcissist in future
Maybe this is a stretch. I wonder if his vacillation of which group of friends to introduce me to reflected the degree of injury/mortification he wanted to achieve. I guess it doesn't matter after the fact as I exited before any of it came into play.
I had a lot of stocking behavior after I felt my husband discarded me when we were dating. I had extreme stuck in behavior and anxiety because he ghosted me, and when I finally got in touch with him a week later, he didn’t see why I was so upset and apparently he broke up with me and I didn’t realize it. For months I stocked him and wouldn’t let him go and I became determined to not “kill“ him, but to “fix” and destroy the bad object. I also realized i am borderline. I have tried to reason and fix this bad object, but he resists and resists and I don’t know why because it’s his own shame that keeps him in pain. His own loving and comforting mother cheated on his father (maybe pushed to) and my husband’s mother abandoned them when he was 8, But it was his father who pushed her away and remarried only six months later to a new wife with step children, without telling his own children his plans. This really traumatized and narcissistically abused my husband I believe, Because he was not allowed to have his own feelings about what was forced on him.
Wow. There are striking similarities between your story and mine. My now ex-narcissist left me after 5 years together and moved back home to another State, without telling me until hours before, and only because I suspected it and got him to admit it. He proceeded to ghost me for a week, and then texted me. As a child his mother cheated on his father and then left the family when he was 8 yrs old, also. Both parents took up with other partners fairly soon afterward, and he and his siblings had to basically take care of themselves since their father was busy working and their Mom was no longer living there. There were girlfriends to help out until he remarried. His mother remarried as well. He spoke of "letting the demons in" during this time of upheaval, and was largely unmonitored in his activities. I can say that there does seem to be a demon inside him to this day, and it expresses itself as a textbook covert narcissist. I'm going thru extreme emotional pain unsurprisingly, yet I am fairly certain that he is doing just fine and already has another gf.
Thank you Sam Vaknin for all this clear explanations,this is exactly what i have experienced, horrible. Then he replaced me as a mother and forced our doughter to accept the new partner as her mother, but never speaking bad about me but treating me as inexistant as much as possible.. And the new partner has to be her mother. I knew this but nowbody believed this perverted storie. I've lot of chance to be healed from all this. it remains the pain having a sacrified child, this is the worst of all. She is 20 now. I would like to know, if I should make her see this video, to help us find our relationship again.. I am lost. Should I? Courage to all other victims.
I had a professor who discussed this but said it had something to do with the intimacy in the relationship getting to a level where the Narcissist feels engulfed, thereby sacrificing psychological individuality, which is experienced as terrifying. I really like this video, very interesting.
Tremendous information yet again, Prof. Vaknin. I'll be waiting for the inevitable trickle-down effects of this particular content in the online narcissism community.
Some of this sounds like me currently I feel as though I'm being smothered and that I'm not allowed to have my own emotions which causes me to be triggered and so I try to create boundaries for myself and I'm being accused of being unfaithful or hiding something I feel trapped in this Dynamic of being put on a pedestal then taken down off the pedestal and it causes me great stress so I try to distance myself then I'm being accused of being such a nasty person I'm tired of this it's affecting the quality of my life and my ability to perform with a clear head
@@janetgd I feel for her because she feels abandoned and her family is not supportive and she says no one will ever love me like she does, it makes me sad and I just don't know what to do
That bowl of knowledge was better than any buffet I ever ate far as food for thought about thinking ang and so much more I thank you it's better than a lot of Emmy award movies you should be honored by thousands and millions of ppl I'm in awwwww 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯🍽️🌎🍽️🌎👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
hello, if he is a loner, why doesn t he interact only with his introjects, instead of cousing suffering to others? he should stay alone with his introjects, and pay a maid for services.why he needs a wife if he doesn t want her actually and he wants freedom? and why he doesn t get all this reverge on his mother? thanks
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Wow! This is truly insane how the narcissist operates in order to be free of emotional commitment!
Barely 2 years into the marriage, he said ‘ I should try going out with other men to see that no one will ever treat me better than him’. I was mortified. That’s the day I knew that everything is just going to go downhill. I didn’t take lightly to being asked to cheat in a marriage especially. I didn’t because it’s out of my moral code & I have self esteem.
Safe to say we are headed to a divorce now.
I told my husband I needed more sex....lol.. which ended the sex life...BUT, he said, "go F black guys" .... I just looked at him and asked him why they have to be black... and then told him the biggest dick I ever had was on a skinny white boy from Sheffield London....and the smallest was on a black man" lol...
Love bomb just to turn around and not meet any of your needs (push/pull) (avoidant attachment) or bread crumb you, and push you away to have you betray him in the end, because of his low self esteem that he feels that subconciously he is not good enough to be genuinely loved to fulfil his actual subconcious inside experience. Mind fuck. Toxic. We can’t love them out of their toxicity.
No you can’t love them out of trauma…. Or addiction.
Dr. Vaknin knows what he's talking about. Narcissists always engineer situations so they win. But if their victim is aware, those very same situations can often be changed in subtle and not so subtle ways that can cause everything to backfire on the narcissist. That's the power of knowledge and these videos certainly help in that regard. Thank you for your perspective, Dr. Vaknin.
This podcast has made me laugh finally and makes perfect sense after my recent discard by my narcissist lover.
I was missing the shared fantasy and thought I was brainwashed and losing my mind. In a trance. He was such a charmer, love bomber, shocked to the core when he suggest I find a new man! This really upset me.
My friends couldn't understand how I would put up with it.
There was triangulation too.
I waited for his text to then be gas lighted again, I was the perfect candidate for his situationship.
He finally steered me into the discard, and alternate end.
Thank god I'm out and amazed how quickly I'm returning to my normal happy self again 🙏😁
I feel like I could write a book on the subject yet listening to your podcast, no need, you've already covered everything I have experienced.
They ignore you, they put you aside and everything in order to make you cheat, because they are already cheating and they are trying to cover their infidelity by pointing you out as a cheater.
Yea that’s the play book
So true!
I have seen my daughter with this man for almost 20 years Kia 16 years older than her she has two children by him and I have seen him just chip and chip away at her mind everything that Dr Victor is talking about I've seen him do just that to her get her to cheat on him she's got a boyfriend now I'm still married I don't see how she goes from her boyfriend's bed to her husband's bed but he refused to sleep with her that's when she found another man but she was already cheating with other men and he knew about it and he told her Bethel tell her that she wasn't right that her husband was wrong to do that I was always afraid that he'd sell her they have a daughter and a son he has three grown children all daughters now he has a son and he acts so different to his son than he ever did his daughters in my opinion he's more meaner to him he's a last of his children I have been wanting to take him away from him forever but my daughter is still there with her son and he's still in the house with her and her kids that's where he sickens me out a lot of times and I just don't know what to do
Wow Doc.
I have been consistently researching Narcissism only for the past 6 months- persistently searching for the exact answer as to what the hell my ex-gf just did to me and I now have the answer after watching this video.
I had been in a state of fully engulfed shame and shock over the suicidality that was drawn out of me over the emotional manipulation and abuse that I withstood pretty well until that perfect perfect button got pressed at a moment where I specifically requested emotional support
I couldn’t understand why she became so dark and ugly towards me but now I do. Now and only now have I found peace of mind and a resolution to my pain.
Thank you Sam Vaknin 🙏🏾
Betray her own values. That’s exactly what happened. I just can’t believe how accurate you are, Sam.
Why do they pretend to be good people? My ex said he was sorry to me at our divorce deposition, just so the lawyers in the room would hear him.
They are loners but they need a spouse, they are not capable of socializing alone.
That’s so
true
That’s s absolutely correct 100%
Loners who can't be alone. Miserable fks.
To maintain an image of perfection. If they feel that they have lost control of that image then they would try to salvage that image to appear redeeming.
They look around them to see who's watching them, (audience) when they apologise.....etc 👀
ALL FOR SHOW! 😉👍
You described how I felt my ex saw our relationship exactly! He was a loner in his own life and resented my presence. He developed his own life, own plans, own sex life and on and on. I didn’t know why he bothered to marry.
And yet, he has stalked , harassed and annoyed on and off for freaking years post divorce.
@@eight-ball3625 He feeds off of your distress. It's air for him.
This story resonates tremendously.
But it's not just about cheating in the romantic sense. Because I became ill and had a bone tumor, I was apparently no longer of value. My ex-narc went behind my back into business dealings with relations (as well as competitors) of my company. She was terrified that I would get my hands on her cell phone, which she guarded with her body. In the end, she was full of secrets. She collected flying monkeys, and humiliated me (while we were still living together) among our friends by throwing trash talk around.
Completely empathy-less, after a 20-year relationship with two children in which I had literally picked her up from the gutter.
I was not familiar with narcissistic personality disorders yet at the time, if only that were true, I would have ended the relationship much earlier.
An eye-opener for me was hearing from friends that she was telling everyone that I had fabricated the tumor (for which I had undergone four surgeries).... From then on, I cut off all contact. I now see her as an empty, pathetic, emotionless shell that cannot be called a human being. As if her soul has been shifted in relation to her body. Her love bombing attempts now hit a very thick wall. I have become very sensitive towards red flags, something that is very much to my liking. Not a microcell in my brain that would consider allowing these types of "people" to enter my life any further.
@@ginagjuniort You don't have to. I think it was Sun Tzu that said: "The only way to win a war, is to deny a battle".
After you studied a bit on the concept of NPD, you will understand that their level of empathy is so low or non-existing that it is impossible to have a healthy relationship with them; they harm you, slowly, bit by bit. Year after year, until you take responsibility for your own well-being.
I'm sorry you went through all of that. These people will go to any lengths to stay in control of their false narrative(s). I was accused of faking my debilitating autoimmune condition that was diagnosed by several doctors. Crazy and exhausting 😪
Wow, I'm in it right now. I'm 45. Been with her since I was 18. 2 kids. I knew nothing of narcissism until 5 months ago.
My eyes have been forced open I am in a very bad, dark place. I thought it was a fairytale, but always struggled.
I have had ulcerative colitis and fibromyalgia for 17 years. My nervous system is in tatters.
The jigsaw pieces have fallen into place and I am terrified.
@@jakestown1952I understand your pain. I've married a narcissist and we have two great children together. I was not a perfect husband but I always loved her. I ignored so many red flags so I can call myself a victim off my own success. She's 10 years younger than me so I was blaming everything on her Immaturity. For me knowledge about narcissism was pretty much a guy who changes girls like gloves and doesn't care about them. I didn't know that narcissism can be applied to a woman. What I've learned about narcissism after I was threatened with police and manipulation is much darker the my previous view on narcissist.
This to a tee is what happened to me. He played on my guilt and shame. Acted like I destroyed him and he wanted to make it work. Only to love bomb me to get me convinced we were good, and then he released the war. He slept with my sister, my best friend at the time, and many, many others I don’t know about, but know about. Literally 8 years of hell when I should have followed what I already knew. Now free of him. Thank you for your wisdom. It helps me heal from this lesson in life.
This happened to me. Pushed and pressured me into this swinger crap to make him happy and save our marriage. I still regret it to this day. I was so disgusted with myself.
I understand you completely. Mine was simular
Forgive yourself self, you have been manipulated in to this ❤
I didn't know narcissists went as far as dating cats (nice profile picture)
The ultimate narcissist punishment is to prevent the partner from having the narcissist. The narcissist is in a relationship with himself (false self) in a shared fantasy.
That’s so effed up, but it is soooooo true!
It's amazing to hear you speak. In my situation, my narc husband pushed me into a physical altercation the day I was supposed to leave his physical presence for the first time in 3 years (he used the virus to instill fear and control me, but that's another story). After I left the isolated environment he had me in, a trip that was only for a couple of days, he orchestrated a complete implosion of our marriage, contacting the authorities, reporting the fight, and filing a domestic violence petition against me, illegally barring me from our child for nearly 2 weeks before the petition was thrown out of court. Once that plan didn't work, he fled the country and has been gone ever since. He's forced me into a situation where I now have to file for full custody of our child, thus stripping him of his parental rights. He will live the rest of his life permanently and irreversibly as the guy who was in a bad marriage where he was a "battered victim" and his evil, powerful ex "took his son!" when really it was completely designed and executed by him, devastating our family and jolting me awake from the shared fantasy. His actions were purely designed to end the relationship in a way that would prevent us from ever being together. Just to throw salt on the wound, his actual, biological mother helped him execute this. Thanks to Prof Vaknin, it all makes sense after just a few months. But I'm sure he faced mortification because for the first time in years, my entire family showed up to protect me after years of no contact that I did to honor his wishes. Anyway, this could have been a lifelong wound without your help, prof!
Similar experience. All the lawyer money spent.
11:07 Legend Lee, when I was hung up it was infinitely helpful to hear you remind me going back wasn't a good idea. He didn't want me at that stage, now I'm done he does want me to want him again but I don't and you can't fall inlove after such severe heartbreak when they discard you
Dr Vaknin…you were my very first source of awareness of narcissism, as far back as late 1990’s with your posts.
I was so desperately seeking explanations for the madness in my life. Then internet has exploded, finally, with lots of information for personal growth and awareness for such behaviors and those interacting with narcissists. But you were the first to open my eyes. I thank you for your part in waking up the world to the games weak minds play at other’s expense.
Aaaaah, oh yez, the betrayal fantasy! Thank you for this. I’m in the middle of a breaking up with a narcissist and now I see what’s going on. I was drowned in guilt and now I know why. Marvelous
Did yours trigger your self harm tendencies?
Same here. Omg this podcast has made me smile after thinking I was going crazy. I'm actually relieved he's discarded me now!
OMG! That explains everything, my behavior, just everything,they love playing the victim, they have no other way to get out of a relationship like normal people
My narcissist ex stalked me for 1.5 years during which I had to get a Protection Order against him. He violated the court’s order over and over again. He got arrested and convicted twice, then I had to file a motion to extend the PPO after it ended because he wouldn’t stop following me. During the last hearing we had in this regard, he put on a performance in front of the judge claiming to be innocent and that I am the one stalking him, that something is wrong with me, that I am jealous of his new partner, and that I can’t move on etc.. the poor victim 😂 In other words, he was frustrated and annoyed that he was held accountable for his violations of the law and that I was reinforcing my boundaries. In his mind, I am stalking him by not allowing him to stalk me. Imagine how insane he looked and sounded like when the judge pulled out the case’s history and all the evidence attached.
He has no shame lol glad you stood your ground. Has he left u alone so far?
@Iron Fist I love this! So happy for you ❤️Hilarious 😂 that he thought he was really doing something spewing all those week ass lies and it backfired.
The same with my ex he blocked me than unblocked to Hoover me with a text and said “ what’s your problem why did you block me” I just laughed because he’s look for a reaction/response to crawl back in my life. I just left him on read 😂😂😂😂😂
I discovered an ex had been passively stalking his first ex from over 10+ years ago. (through social media) I think most never let go of anyone who got through the idealized/infatuation stage with them. Scary f**kers.
Same
MY EX NEVER PUSHED ME TO CHEAT..HE ENGAGED IN MORE THAN ENOUGH CHEATING AND BETRAYALS TO LAST HIM A LIFETIME ALL ON HIS OWN. THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO!
The forcing part at 15:45 resonated deeply. I felt so unlike myself when he (with absolute conviction and charm) forced me to cheat. His reasoning made so much sense to me at the time looking back I feel sick to my stomach how out of control I was with my own self.
😂 The number of (mainly) women commenting here about their relief that they now realize 'didn't really cheat' but were 'forced to' is hilarious 😂 To be fair, I find Mr Vaknin's explanation compelling, and it made me understand a few of my own experiences with narcissistic (and abusive) ex-partners, including occasions of being 'pushed to cheat'. The difference being that I resisted the urge. I am not claiming to be of superior virtue; only that, had I not resisted and had I ended up cheating instead, the ultimate responsibility would still have been squarely mine, regardless of the messed up manipulations of my ex.
I fully agree. See my recent video on never forgiving a cheater.
🤮🤮🤮
A despicable person would be celebrating the emotional low the others when they have experienced predation the loneliness, etc.
I took him out of the house and looked for a new partner, but I would never fell superiority of other people trying to get affection whily they are in hell.
This same doctor advises seeking romantic physical relief and not neglecting your needs when you have a narcissist in your life.
My ex left me for my long time frienemy, she is a narcissist for sure. She did to him the things he did to me only I had spent longer with him and we were more serious in my mind. They were just FWB, but she led him on to get me out of the picture and she did me a favour bad.
Cheating would require being in a RELATIONSHIP! A narcissist is never in a relationship with you, and they have not only TOLD you, SHOWED YOU,WROTE it out for you in every and which way, from the exceptional amounts of silent treatments AT WILL, for ample periods of time, to the GRANDIOSE outright statements of perpetually letting you know that YOU DO NOT HAVE THE ABILITY to 1) state your concerns,opinions,wants,needs,responses, emotions on any topic,
2)have your own likes, hobbies that are contrary to theirs,3) a schedule of their everyday life that could contradict theirs, or imposes any threat! LETS BE HONEST HERE, the NARCISSIST doesn't even call cheating,it's biologically ingrained in them that THEY DONT BELONG TO ANYONE, and project it as such! I want to change the actual phrase to The Narcissist Pushes The Partner To SURVIVE, LIVE, AND TO HAVE the Confidence/COurage to know you can be happy without ,them and truly find a worthy human being! Narcissists know they are evil filled, and rather than total destruction of their partner bc they know that requires the inevitable DESTRUCTION of themselves, (and they don't have the ability to get back up and become healthy and actually thrive) so as the saying goes "THEY perpetually LAck foresight and ALWAYS ALWAYS injure themselves, if it's not a purposeful MASOCHIST, it's AN UNAWARE MASOCHIST! A theory that can not be totally dismissed! Constant seeking of self inflicting PAIN,TORTURE, and PRE MEDITATED METHODICAL orchestrated self BETRAYAL? ABSOLUTELY fall in said category.
I am just not a cheater...perhaps if I were younger...or more insecure...but, I can't see the good in it.
I am tremendously grateful for your insights on this subject. Particularly at this period of time when Narcissist con-men have been featured in the main stream, trying to cover there lies and controlling manipulations of their "Victims" .
This episode is next level. If you have not learned how to control and hide your feelings YOU WILL FAIL! Resulting in being seen as the problem. Pay special attention to what he says at 12 minutes and 47 seconds……
Thanks Sam. Phew. That was a good.
And terrifying.
My first bf used to look for anything to have an argument with me, but since I could see what he was doing I didn't join him. That made him so uncomfortable and uneasy that I'm pretty sure he never enjoyed my company. I was able to spot what he was doing. He wanted me to mistreat him so that he could have a reason to get away from me. Unfortunately for him, I treated him with love and respect although I knew what he was doing. This made him very furious and couldn't stop looking for ways to make me feel angry at him until he succeeded and I left him. I was astonished, I couldn't understand why he wanted to push me away from him when I loved him and respected him, but I also discovered that some of his relatives mistreated him and he didn't do anything about it. So my conclusion was that he didn't want to be loved, he wanted to be hated and mistreated so anyone who loves him will be pushed away.
My last bf used to tell me "leave me if that's what you want" whenever I wanted to talk to him about something that was bothering me about our relationship. I never said anything about breaking up. I wasn't even thinking about leaving him, but he told me those same words many times instead of letting me talk about what I was feeling. I guess he knew I was going to leave him someday but he wanted to feel he had control of that situation. So if he said "leave me if you want" and after that I left him, he would feel like he made me leave him, so there's no reason for him to feel sad or ashamed. Of course I eventually left him. They push so hard that they succeed.
Ηe constantly and systematically pushed me to do things I never imagined I would do. It brought to light a version of myself which I didn't like at all and that, after all, wasn't me. And then, exactly that was the excuse to kick me out of his life.
WHAT?!?!?! this makes an absurd amount of sense, you're a genius. I tried for SO LONG to figure out why my ex kept trying to get me to sleep with other women.
I just finally did it. He told me that the only way he'd divorce me is if I cheated. I used it as my ticket out. I was so mental that I really thought it was the only exit.
Never ever get your self in a situation like that, leave for good.
@anna carter I didnt really see it coming. I never believed such a dark person could exist in sunlight. And, I'd never heard of a Narc until after the divorce papers were filed and I'd slept enough to get back to basic comprehension again.
@@rachellechavez9739 interesting you mention sleeping that sleep deprivation is a hell of a weapon!!!!!
@@parker5035 I understood it from watching Naked &Afraid reality show. Tired people do really stupid things.
Your talking is such a wonderful relief. I was driven to thought for 27 years I was the Sick one. Still counting as we have children together. Your are a treasure you can save lives just explaining through words!!!!
I understand the tactic. He can leave the relation without looking bad by his "supposed" peers but a narcassist don't have peers because in his mind he stands above everyone else - it is just something he don't get exposed.
No, I think Sam was saying that the Narc would risk being embarrassed in front of friends and family to ensure he could Discard his partner and feel justified along with never having to deal with said partner stalking him. A “Twofer”
I have been following you since 2008, and you have helped me understand the most confounding things that I have encountered in relationships, situations that would have caused me emotional and situational ruin! This video is a must see! Explains so much!
I'm finally learning to have boundaries. If something feels off then do not allow it fullstop.
This video helped me so much! He engineered 100 percent for me to go to the cops (that turned out to be his close friends unbeknownst to me) and report to them a crime he admitted to but that I found out never actually happened, at least not that particular crime. But he is an extremely dangerous criminal and planned on having me killed. Long story, anyway thank you for the explanation!
This makes so much sense. The manipulation was epic.
What about the narcissist who cannot force his partner to cheat, but fabricates a story of HER cheating on HIM in order to play the victim and turn everyone against her? This could cause the partner so much anguish that she dumps him! So the N has achieved his goal of getting rid of his intimate partner!
Or vice versa
Mine was trying to do the same thing. But I am not that kind of person so he’s claiming that I must have been doing something. This is while he been cheating for a whole year and a half.
Professor, thank you. I now understand a great piece of the puzzle that was beyond my comprehension of why a worthy, upright person would lose all credibility. You explained it beautifully in those closing lines....the narcissist's mind games are truly beyond comprehension of the lay person. This helps me bring to closure quite a few issues and some niggling suspicions carried on for close to over five decades.
Undoubtedly you are an ace in these matters, thank you for sharing your incisive and thorough understanding of the absolutely convoluted workings of the narcissist's mind.
Mind boggling as it was to unravel, you helped me unravel some inner demons of a long forgotten past in my early years.
Thank you Professor. I just want you to know you are a brick when it comes to sharing all this profound knowledge.
My husband of 32 years never tried to make me cheat, but he sure loved to meet up with others. Right before his cancer got bad, he let his family know he’d been living a double life with some gold digger in another city(it wasn’t strange because we kept a boat there), and of course as soon as their secret got out, that crumbled and he came back for me(mommy) to take care of him for his last 4 months. After all the deceptions and betrayals, I still felt sorry for him and I’m sad he’s dead but the reality is that if he were still alive, my torture would continue. I had to watch him have his fantasy life with some whore in havasu who was only to happy to be a dirty little secret, that was gut wrenching. Then I got to take care of him for the last time and watch him die, also gut wrenching…so much devastation, chaos and sadness. It’s really sad to realize that this type of person could have the best love, and instead they just throw it away and leave us to sink or swim, on our own.
@@JohnnyRecently thank you
and until the last moment, I bet you still tried to be as loving as possible, genuienly.Doesn't make you the idiot, but the human.
@Citadelle sadly, yes. Big waste of years
I'm blown away that you don't have 50 replies. My husband is a slut screwing pig all of our entire marriage. I found communication numbers going back 5 years on 2 of his sluts plus one lady that goes back to nearly our beginning. Married 29 of 30 years together and I personally stopped sleeping with him (intimate) over 20 years ago but still he would never give me a divorce and I couldn't do anything, I was medical, horribly depressed in to a corner in the living room couch where I lived for apx 15 years, day and night, sleep, eat, stay constant in that corner 😔. Such a horrible sick life with a psycho freak abuser who took away every single speck of family, friends, clubs, neighbors, social networks, even doctors he'd call. He screwed my so called best friend in the house and in the Van, 2 separate times, both times I was asleep here, he did it right under my nose like his other whores.
@@Becky_Lewis_Survivor I know that feeling, sorry🙏
RG...perfect example of how Narcissits think they can fool absolutely anyone...cant believe he took you on! So wrapped up in themselves...find it really funny actually....because my narc neighbour has exactly the same mind set. But one thing I have that she will never have is your knowledge..shes not intelligent enough! Thank you Sam!
Hey, everyone! I was watching one of Sam Vaknin's videos about individuation, where Richard Grannon was also present and suddenly it became unavailable. I got a prompt from RUclips that said "This video is no longer available because Richard Grannon Spartanlifecoach claimed author rights" (I translated from my language). The funny thing is even if Richard Grannon was in the video, it was Sam Vaknin doing the talking, at least that's what I saw half hour in. I am so upset, because now that valuable information is no longer reachable. How can Richard Grannon claim author rights on that video, if Sam Vaknin is doing the talking? Or is he just doing that claim to videos wherever he is present? Now I am worried he is trying to cancel Prof. Sam Vaknin. Shame on you, Richard Grannon!
Yes. He has been filing dozens of bogus copyright claims on all my channels in an attempt to terminate them. This is why I haven't been uploading new content: my account is disabled by Grannon's false claims.
@@samvaknin I'm so sorry to hear about this! I hope that RUclips does the right thing and your channel is back to normal. You've been of immense help to so many people! We need you here. Your approach is scientific and informative, in a way I haven't seen anywhere else. It seems that Richard Grannon is stealing your ideas too (terms you invented) and now trying to shut you down.
Whether your cheating on them or not, they still believe that you're cheating 🤷 Sick pups
Because they either are cheating themselves or trying to in some way
I understand about this mind gaming strategy! You see my father was an electrical engineer, the smartest person I have ever known, has never acted like this. So when you say the word engineered, my father was a self made engineer, and he would have never dreamed of acting like this. I have my fathers mind and personality and I have learned alot of important life lessons from him, this is why narcisists cannot take advantage of me and my mind. He always told me to think for myself in every situation, I have listened to him and he is so right, what a valuable life lesson this is. This is crazy and unstable behavior by narcisissits, unbelievable. I dated and was married to narcissits, I understand this completely, although I never cheated on anyone, the narcissit did. What do you say to the narcissist cheating? So terrible. I am a smart person and I think this is the most underhanded, cruel, cold blooded, evil, stupid and manipulative tatic I have ever seen, I have seen other manipulative tatics done by bad people before. This however is absolutely insane and crazy!❣️
You are God sent Dr. Vaknin! My narcissistic husband would offer me up to friends of his that he looked up to. At the time I didn’t quite see what he was doing but it make total sense to me now! If I have learned anything from you, that is to NOT cheat! I understand now why this is so important. I appreciate you so much. Thank you♥️
Thank you! This made things more clear and supports the process of understandment and healing after I got trapped by my narcissistic ex-partner. You will be left back with an incredible huge feeling of blame, even I was not cheating! To reduce this it is so important to gain knowledge about those principles. Therapy helped a lot and of course eye-opening lectures like this. Thank you Prof. Vaknin!
Imagine a beautiful basket of fruit. Red shiney apples. Waiting to be at thier best. A rotten one is at the bottom, thus poisoning the entire basket full.
My 9 year marriage. If you can survive being with a narcissist. BRAVO❤
My bf is constantly accusing me of cheating. He bruises my body during sex and then says these marks are proof that I have been with someone else and I must like it rough. I tell him he's made the marks and I have never cheated but he never let's up. He takes photos of the bruises and it's constant accusations. I know I need to leave him.
Run.
Why are you allowing this abuse? Leave, run, save yourself. You are worth it. He's an abuser
He nuts
This is abuse! Please get support and advice from a local domestic abuse organisation. Also, look for Lundy Bancroft on RUclips
Why in the hell would you stay with someone like that?
I never heard about this even more twisted side of the narcissist. Very informative and enlightening. Thanks for the video.
Many of your videos as this one has been eye opening. Thank you.
this is. exactly my experience. exactly. the. same. damn.
thank you sam. thank you so much for your honesty.. and sharing this with us all.. this really hits home, and i really think itll help so many in the same situation. very clarifying. very smoke-clearing..
Never thought that a person can have such an influence on me, but indeed he had it. Since the beginning I had a bad feeling & we met as lovers only for one month.
I think I was the one, who engineered the break up. I couldn't understand what is going wrong: I met the man of my dreams, but after we met I felt weak, sick, without energy. I wasn't able to concentrate on other things but him & I hated it!
So I had sharing information that he told me to all people around, asking them what they think about it. One of my good friends who was worried about me started stalking him.
After a while he asked me for a conversation, but I didn't react positively. Two weeks later he had someone else & I refused to meet him personally. So he broke up the contact.
He said to me that he wasn't sure if he had ever wanted a relationship with me. Since I know that narcissists in most of the cases chooses mentally ill & broken women with low self-esteem, I see his words as a compliment.
2nd question on Narcs being subconscious, thank you for answering my 1st. How the hell can all this be so tactfully executed if it is unconscious?? It seems Narc actions are so thoroughly planned, but if I have understood you correctly, only psychopaths will PLAN their actions. - Thank you
Bravo Professor,
After my experience with my first and LAST Narcissist, he used cruel horrible remarks to finally run me out of his house for good. I had left him 10 times for bad behavior ( drinking and cheating). I know, your thinking 10 red flags and you kept coming back? But you see Professor, he was brilliant, terribly handsome, organized, gifted, talented to a high degree, and I was smitten!
I was going to heal this fabulous man so obviously in pain. (DUH) my second mistake. In any case, he discarded and ghosted me, and in doing so, he had rid himself of me. There is no way he could convince me to cheat. So he found an alternative in his discard of me. The amount of mental derangement and heartbreak for me was enormous. I did a years worth of research on mental diseases and came to the fact that I had been snared but a very crafty Narcissist. Your talk today was succinct kind Sir. Many Thank.
Kept insisting there was someone else. Together 7 months. His ex cheated, he cheated. I didn't, but positive he's been telling everyone I did since his discard 3 weeks ago. Was freaking annoying.
Hope all is well. Never noticed such a long gap in uploads.
I can't upload new vids. Grannon filed spurious copyright claims in an attempt to terminate my channel.
Incredible video, you could be describing my experience to-a-tee. Your closing comments about Brainwashing are chilling. After I escaped my narcissist-ex joined the EDUCO cult and remains in it. Thank you Sam.
This is just sick asf 🤷🏾♀️
Thank you. For opening my eyes I'm from the old school this makes so much sense
I have been with Sam listening from the beginning, this is outrageous ! Finally!!! Thank you!
Sam… can you explain why my covert narcissist spouse cheats and has an affair with another woman, living a secret life for 8 years, dividing up his week with both of us … including sleeping with both of us, giving the same excuse he was away working? He often traveled with his Highway Improvement Company so that was a given.🙄 He never left me or expressed a desire to divorce… and of course lied to my face about having an affair. Learned ALL this after his death with the other woman in a helicopter crash. He lied to her too, saying he was divorced… then divorced became separated. It all makes me crazy. No closure. Married 45 years with 2 adult daughters. I never cheated.
that is fucking awful. i just came across a male covert narcissist. they are pathalogical liars and will do anything to take resources. your body in your case, your money, your attention. they love to be the 'puppet master' , and win in any and every interaction. they believe the world is dog eat dog and you take yours. but they pretend to be good people and play on your insecurities. however the older they get , they arent that fuckin smart. they just really prey upon good people. its sickening. Im so sorry for you. that is straight up EVIL and i would describe basically any covert narcissist as evil. And its fucking concious to which is what we do not think. its crazy. im lucky i got out of 12 y with covert narcissist and randomly then made friends with male covert narch that did nothing but steal.
dayum. hang tough.
Why do some men do everything to push their partners out, but yet do everything to try and keep them when they're ready to leave?
I've witnessed several very toxic men do this and they use guilt to keep their wives with them.
Is this more likely a psychopath at work?
Another feminist who thinks all men are evil. Lot more women are damaging men in relationship by their manipulative I change my mind than men. The women of now are men and men are women
We love you Sam, so sorry what Richard is doing, he is a narcissist and is bullying you, love your videos and thank you
References?
You don’t have a choice but to move on because they hold back intimacy love and emotions. Who wants to live like that?
Why do they come back ?
You've just perfectly described the dynamics of my parents' "marriage" 😂😂
I love you, Sam!! (Naturally)😮
Many of the old videos are deleted. Will miss all the valuable information given by you in them.
Grannon had them deleted by filing 50 copyright strikes.
🤷♀️A ja sam obrisala❌Grannona💨
Wow, this explains why my stbex tried, and tried to get me have sex with other men. He didn't succeed, I was grossed out and kept pushing back. I would confront him with his own self proclaimed morals. It never made sense to me. Intuitively I knew he wanted it for himself. But when i pushed back he would say: its just a fantasy, ofcourse I dont want you to sleep with other men. Acvording to him this started after hos 2 previpus wives cheated on him. Towards the end of our marriage I started to believe that he had pushed them to sleep with other men, like he tried with me. That they did not cheat on him as he tells everyone.
Holy moly, I'm learning something new every day. My refusal was the turning point in our marriage. He then started withdrewing intimacy. Called me clingy, needy, not respecting him. He then claimed he has ED. Towards the end of our marriage he started cheating on me.
Sam I just dumped my narcissistic boyfriend and I he was always trying to fix me up to live with his male friends. I could see what he was doing. I told him " I'm not going to live with your male friends period !" and that's all I said.
I think they find joy in the result of this process. The narcissist has engineered this whole thing (control) and then gets to claim themselves as the victim therefore getting their supply. He will brag about how horrible the cheating was and gain sympathy from others.
Yep.
Yes! I emotionally cheated on my ex and you just described him perfectly and yes, I felt terrible and still do after many years.
I knew a narc just like this with a history of cheating women in his past. He would never say "I may have been ruthless" or anything of the kind. His recount of things was that he was "too forgiving". That was his only part in his failed relationships according to his thoughts on the matter.
Wow, so true! He would recommend that I reach out to someone he knew, and when I did the response was, Why would you contact my friend? So f'd up. Although he thinks he's the puppet master, his mother really is. I've tried to enlighten both of them with their behavior and am done trying to understand something that I don't wish to comprehend. 🙂
Married for almost 34 years. Yes, he pushed me to cheat, yet I NEVER did. I do however understand his anger about it now though. He even told me straight to my face to do so on many occasions as well, without any success. He even sent his friend for years to come by while the kids are at school and he at work. I wíll not be dictated to who I am and what I will and will not do. I also absolutely refúse to take revenge. I don't have to anyway...he's doing a phenomenal job at destroying himself all by himsélf. I will hold on to myself till the day I die. I am ME and nobody gets to control that but me.
ALSO:
All your explanations makes sense, except for one:
Why then would they hoover to get you back, if you have overstayed your welcome in their lives; love bomb you to do it all yet again?
Thank you. Pure out.
More than brilliant. Exceptional! Clear like crystal. Listen carefully
Simply amazing how their mind works
After creating our world where he couldn’t possibly live without me…he constantly accused me of cheating, told me constantly to go be with this, that and the other, pushed me away emotionally, mentally and physically and as a codependent I wouldn’t leave. He withdrew in every way and I was trying to be that person he couldn’t live without. I actually made myself 100% available to him to my detriment of course. When I disintegrated in self worth and esteem, it made total sense that I thought myself less than and someone everyone could live without. He was pissed that he couldn’t push me to betray him and I was then clingy, needy and underfoot. He created a cheating scenario between me and someone he knew and invested in that belief in order to discard. He got rid of me and was able to experience the betrayal. I never did cheat or even come close to cheating but that’s how he expected to be humiliated, worked so hard towards and ultimately in his mind was narcissistically injured. I moved 100s of miles away out of reach to keep myself from going back and didn’t defend myself (although, I knew no one from being isolated for so long) and he was able to be the victim in his community. I didn’t expose him for who he was because I didn’t even know the extent of it until the fog lifted after a year gone and no one was going to believe I stayed (only knowing who I was before this relationship) thru that kind of nightmare. Easier to disappear. Hopefully the shared fantasy is severed in the absence of betrayal.
It is easier to dissappear, that's what I've done. Sorry u r going thru this as well. It's awful. Slow process of unraveling it all.
@@donoharm510 thank God I journaled or I never would've believed what happen. I was a stranger to myself in my own writing. Unravel is the greatest word. Wishing you a clear path towards healing as well 😊
@@KiMb3rMc when I read back my journals through the years I can't find myself. It's eerie. All disjuncted and almost like stream of thought. I only remember maybe one tenth of it. It is like visiting an alien world and being immersed in it with no language learning or instructions on customs of the late of the land. Like Babel. This last relationship I started to navigate the inner space with a little awareness. It was on the heels of taking care of my dad who fits the covert narc script. I put myself in therapy and journaled like crazy. That maze was eye opening. We battled each other to the end...well his end. He died peacefully with his hands folded over his heart in his sleep. I was so freed of guilt for the first time I can remember. I remembered loving him as a child and in his aftermath that memory supplanted the shame and pain I saw him in his and my whole life. I think he tried to amend in some way but my rejection and suspicion of him won while he was alive. It was then I came in union with the narc relationship. Somehow I had enough of a reset to almost see what his calculations were. My instinct and intuitions kept kicking in and insulated me from the more searing effects of betrayal and games. Then I found these priceless videos. I am six months away from the narcs games after 9 months of being steeped in the fantasy. I still have grief and the addiction is real and I abstain with distance. Finding my way with self love as clumsy as I am at it. Protect people from me as my BPD activated. Long journey. God help us all on whatever spectrum we are.
powerful information-100% true. Thank you very much for the selfless sharing of this info
Okay but when he left me for another woman, I was happy he was gone. When he called and heard me at the gym laughing he came back and stole my car, tried to steal a dog I rescued after he left and tried to destroy me again because I didn't chase him and found happiness without him.
I then mortified him for filling a stolen car charge and the cops contacted him at his mom's 85th birthday party infront of his entire family and many friends. 5 months later he came back but my new boyfriend protected me.... How can I get this antisocial personality man to leave me alone???? Please help
I'm glad the boyfriend protected you, maybe now he'll stop his shenanigans since he knows u moved on. I'll still get a restraining order against him through the court though
Document everything he does, don't let nothing slide keep holding him accountable! And most of all don't let him come between u and your boyfriend. He'll sink his self bc he thinks he's above the law and that's where you're going to get him at.
@@empressb444 thank you
@@empressb444 unfortunately in Pennsylvania you can only get a Protection From Abuse order and when I tried to get one in May 2022 they made me feel stupid. I have been told to try again but I am afraid of getting dismissed by the court again as if I am dump
@Sandy Cardamon oh wow, well I'm glad you have a man that's willing to protect you from him. I hope it works out, eventually he'll go away they don't really want confrontation like that especially if it gets physical
I wonder if there is a correlation between a mid life crisis in men and NPD. What happens to a man with NPD during this time?
This is the first time I heard about this and as a normal person you cannot wrap your mind around it. I didn't cheat although he "organized" everything with his friend behind my back. I actually intuitively sensed it and I even understood the thinking behind it - not in all aspects as you pointed it out - but overall. The way these people think is soooo alien, just incredible!
There is no such thing as forcing someone to cheat/betray. If the partner is being pushed away as you say, then they should leave the relationship without cheating. There needs to be far more accountability taken by the cheater.
I believe Sam is referring to any act of perceived betrayal; cheating is the most obvious and universally understood example. Sam is essentially describing what is more commonly referred to as "baiting". The narc sets the target up to fail so that any normal, defence/ response to his abuse and mistreatment is portrayed to others as a form of abuse in itself. This 'abuse'/ betrayal (I.e the result of falling into a baited trap, where failure is guaranteed) is then used to garner endless supply in the form of eternal victimhood and to avoid any accountability for the behaviours, attitudes and delusions that harmed the relationship in the first place.
You are correct but This is the thing… what ends up happening is, the partner doesn’t want to end the relationship because they love the narc… The Narc know what the the person needs/wants because they are actively withholding it in the relationship and they strategically put someone in the place that they know will provide what they are withholding to the partner… it’s essentially a calculated tease hoping the partner takes the bait to further help the Narc to devalue the partner and prove their own delusion that “everyone will leave me anyways”. It’s a sick and twisted mindset with a plot and actions that ends up hurting the Narc at the end, hence the title of the video.
@@stefal22 I'm not denying that a narc brings chaos. But cheating and causing more chaos is a total lack of accountability. It really is a simple issue.
@@SheebaRaye exactly. It doesn't have to be cheating. I bet most often it's not cheating and other things. Goals unmet, other ways the person can not measure up on an unagreed upon set of rules.
@@stefal22 WRONG! When we are simply walking to the car, and EVIL enters our space and steals our safety - we are victims. Ppl in narc relationships are NOT victims. We have free will. We can say "no." We can leave. Therefore, we actively welcome victimization (meaning the sins against us) BECAUSE we are working out familial legacies or something (I will fix it; I will turn chaos into calm; my childhood will be rewritten into something that works). No mistake, though, every sin against us that we rationalize away proves we are not victims even though we are being harmed or victimized. Cheating is a choice regardless of what motivates one to cheat. The cheater is ALWAYS wrong. It doesn't matter what rationale the cheater uses to justify cheating. If you cannot honor your vows, you say "goodbye." Partner isn't meeting your needs? Discussion, debate, therapy, LEAVE. You cannot be manipulated into cheating.
Interesting. So really it is the ultimate narcissistic injury if you absolutely refuse to fall into the trap they set for you? I could definitely see the way this narcissistic individual I knew was starting to unravel when I started to back away from his increasing weirdness. And left - before I was excessively tempted to do something (like cheating with him while his wife was dying) I would regret, or that could be used against me. Thank you, instincts. And don’t worry, he made it very well known he found someone else to cheat with instead. I was supposed to be jealous, I suppose 🙄🤦♀️.
We need your channel to survive and thrive!!! RG Strikes need to 🛑
It all makes sense now. My Narc passed away 5 months ago. He knew he was dying , I did not! He stalked me for a whole year then his son continued it for 4 months afterwards....He used his pd connections to do it. He worked in Forensics and had a non profit business helping ptsd patients, ironic! He turned everything around because he hated if his image got harmed by me!!!! The week I started to let go, he passed away! How cruel they try so hard to put us in trouble for what THEY did!!!! He called my husband of 31 years!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes! He hated his friends found out about us and boy! All this year of doing his revenge because of that. And yes, rejection from me was the initial problem. He told all my neighbors friends bad things about me because again, his image had to stay intact!!!! He passed away from Internal Bleeding!
I think that the shame which the narcissist feels is related to the father. Subconsciously, he feels guilty for not separating from his mother and kind of taking her away from him. That's why part of the shared fantasy involves cheating on the partner. In this way he returns his mother to her husband and his father and now he can feel relief and eventually individuate.
Watch my video on the Oedipus complex.
I hate to say it, but Sam is 100% correct on this, in my work with abuse victims, I have seen this many times, I Intuitively knew what the narcissist had done & why.
This is the first time I've heard anyone else talk about this, it's bloody diabolica &l hard to wrap your head around, unless had experience of it, would never pick up on it or believe it, once again, I hate to say ... Sam has nailed it!
Ps. It's even more horrific for victims to realise even their own 'cheating' comfort was completely orchestrated controlled by the narcissist and they again had played right into his hands. So I don't tell clients as it only hurts them even more.
I just help them out stay out not go back into it with him or another narcissist in future
Richard GRANNON got Sam locked out of his own channel. Talk about betrayal. I want Sam back.
Such a clear concise explanation. And SO ACCURATE. Thank you Professor.
This explains so much of the behavior of the narc.
Maybe this is a stretch. I wonder if his vacillation of which group of friends to introduce me to reflected the degree of injury/mortification he wanted to achieve. I guess it doesn't matter after the fact as I exited before any of it came into play.
I had a lot of stocking behavior after I felt my husband discarded me when we were dating. I had extreme stuck in behavior and anxiety because he ghosted me, and when I finally got in touch with him a week later, he didn’t see why I was so upset and apparently he broke up with me and I didn’t realize it. For months I stocked him and wouldn’t let him go and I became determined to not “kill“ him, but to “fix” and destroy the bad object. I also realized i am borderline. I have tried to reason and fix this bad object, but he resists and resists and I don’t know why because it’s his own shame that keeps him in pain. His own loving and comforting mother cheated on his father (maybe pushed to) and my husband’s mother abandoned them when he was 8, But it was his father who pushed her away and remarried only six months later to a new wife with step children, without telling his own children his plans. This really traumatized and narcissistically abused my husband I believe, Because he was not allowed to have his own feelings about what was forced on him.
Wow. There are striking similarities between your story and mine. My now ex-narcissist left me after 5 years together and moved back home to another State, without telling me until hours before, and only because I suspected it and got him to admit it. He proceeded to ghost me for a week, and then texted me. As a child his mother cheated on his father and then left the family when he was 8 yrs old, also. Both parents took up with other partners fairly soon afterward, and he and his siblings had to basically take care of themselves since their father was busy working and their Mom was no longer living there. There were girlfriends to help out until he remarried. His mother remarried as well. He spoke of "letting the demons in" during this time of upheaval, and was largely unmonitored in his activities. I can say that there does seem to be a demon inside him to this day, and it expresses itself as a textbook covert narcissist. I'm going thru extreme emotional pain unsurprisingly, yet I am fairly certain that he is doing just fine and already has another gf.
Thank you Sam Vaknin for all this clear explanations,this is exactly what i have experienced, horrible. Then he replaced me as a mother and forced our doughter to accept the new partner as her mother, but never speaking bad about me but treating me as inexistant as much as possible.. And the new partner has to be her mother. I knew this but nowbody believed this perverted storie. I've lot of chance to be healed from all this. it remains the pain having a sacrified child, this is the worst of all. She is 20 now. I would like to know, if I should make her see this video, to help us find our relationship again.. I am lost. Should I? Courage to all other victims.
In the words of Neil from "The Young Ones", heavy man....thank you, Sam.
I had a professor who discussed this but said it had something to do with the intimacy in the relationship getting to a level where the Narcissist feels engulfed, thereby sacrificing psychological individuality, which is experienced as terrifying. I really like this video, very interesting.
Your professor is confusing Borderline Personality Disorders with Narcissistic PD. He ought to go back to school.
@@samvaknin Ok, I'll tell him. Thanks 😂
@@MicheleLantieri 😂
@@samvaknindamn unc😂
Tremendous information yet again, Prof. Vaknin. I'll be waiting for the inevitable trickle-down effects of this particular content in the online narcissism community.
Thank you Professor. You bring clear insight, which makes a deeper understanding of the dynamics possible.
I wondered why my ex narc wanted me to spend time with other men. Didn’t step in or seem to care. 😮 I never cheated though!🎉
Some of this sounds like me currently I feel as though I'm being smothered and that I'm not allowed to have my own emotions which causes me to be triggered and so I try to create boundaries for myself and I'm being accused of being unfaithful or hiding something I feel trapped in this Dynamic of being put on a pedestal then taken down off the pedestal and it causes me great stress so I try to distance myself then I'm being accused of being such a nasty person I'm tired of this it's affecting the quality of my life and my ability to perform with a clear head
Bong James bong..I love that name. Lol.
Peace.
Escape!
@@donoharm510 Thanks
@@janetgd I feel for her because she feels abandoned and her family is not supportive and she says no one will ever love me like she does, it makes me sad and I just don't know what to do
@@bongjamesbong00420 👍☮
That bowl of knowledge was better than any buffet I ever ate far as food for thought about thinking ang and so much more I thank you it's better than a lot of Emmy award movies you should be honored by thousands and millions of ppl I'm in awwwww 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯🍽️🌎🍽️🌎👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
hello, if he is a loner, why doesn t he interact only with his introjects, instead of cousing suffering to others? he should stay alone with his introjects, and pay a maid for services.why he needs a wife if he doesn t want her actually and he wants freedom? and why he doesn t get all this reverge on his mother? thanks
That’s so absolutely true….