What's your opinion on this tank? Is it a sin to create this type of fake or is it an interesting "what if" tank? Either way if you liked this video you should check out some of my other videos on Chinese tanks like the WZ-111 and WZ-122: ruclips.net/video/lT_n_rdj-Vo/видео.html ruclips.net/video/aPi30YjRozg/видео.html
I don't think it is a sin to create hypothetical tanks for a video game. They should be careful when releasing promotional material that implies the vehicle actually existed. We have enough unfortunate cases of fake tanks being mistaken for real vehicles without adding fuel to the fire.
Video is fine. It's all fake ofcourse, because it's fake friday. But that aside, its a tank in World of Tanks. They ran out of real tanks a while ago. They just learned not to give it 6 round clips that could kill any tank in the game in 7.5 seconds. Other then that, there will be plenty of idiots paying for it and for the game itself, and that will keep the fake tanks coming for years more. I'm just glad it's not any of my money anymore. So fake or not, its good business either way for Wargaming.
These guys have probably done the research to make something that's plausible, and I don't mind 'what-iffery' - though this is coming from a guy who's at the moment conceptualizing what a '67 Porsche F1 car might've looked like, with a prototype of the 908 engine...
Cone, please do a video on the god awful "TigerWolf" tank. Made by a bunch of US Military "Reformers" You know the people who thought the Bradley was just an M113 with a turret and thought the Military needs to use worse vehicles if it means it's a bit cheaper, and all with the hope that this would somehow reduce casualities. Btw, I got the Tankgirl plushie. I've kept it in the bag it came with, but my 4-Year-old Neice found the bag and is in love with the plushie. Whenever she comes to my house she asks if she could see the plushie and play with it. I don't even think she knows what a tank is, she just likes the plushie
Can you imagine if they actually got the A-10 in service I mean what a disaster that would be hahaha outdated technology, useless gun, no targeting systems, all because they still believe in the romanticised WWI/II dogfight… oh wait
@@shardell These guys had nothing to do with the A-10. Pierre Sprey claimed that (he also claimed that he designed the F-15 and the F-22, which he clearly didn't. He was a fucking sound engineer and jazz musician), but the A-10 had been at least partly designed by Alexander Kartveli, the guy who also designed the P-47 Thunderbolt, F-84 Thunderjet/Thunderstreak and F-105 Thunderchief.
Hey Cone. Some months ago WG teased us, WoT Blitz players, with a new heavy line for the japanese. Yesterday they released another teaser, with the tier 10 tank model finished. They call it the Type-71. It looks pretty much like a heavier STB-1 kind of tank. Couldn't find anything about, so it can be potential content for your channel. The same goes for a future german tank that they will include in a battlepass, the VK 35.02, that has recently been leaked by data miners. Greetings from Chile!
Yes it makes rage.. but only a little bit. My problem with WG isn't so much making fake tanks, but rather selling fake tanks as historical projects. "Only existed in blueprints" used to mean that for the most part, but now it's more "Only existed in WG plans" I just wish they'd be more transparent with saying that the designs are artist interpretations or concepts. As opposed to continuing to feed parts of the community, who might not want research each tank, all kinds of BS about developments of armored vehicles that have zero historical basis but are still presented as history.
Thats the problem of game, for years they did almoust nothing, only adding countless tanks(mostly make believe projects) to keep players addicted. Maps and gameplay are mostly the same.
I think the Manticore would be a good topic for this series, mainly because despite what people say about it being a fake vehicle made up by WG, it’s actually a real design (albeit with a different name)
@@T_PLAYER Yep. In fact, there were at least 3 British tank designs named Chimera. In addition to the Chimera 1950 and Chimera 1955 that are in World of Tanks, there's also the Chimera 1984, which would've converted Chieftain hulls into a low profile casemate TD using the Challenger 2's gun. (A pity Britain didn't bring back the Chimera name instead of going with "Challenger 3", since it's kind of a chimera of Challenger 2 and Leopard 2.)
The turret in a way looks awfully a lot like the 1226 as well, so is the side skirt and the six pairs of roadwheels. However, the 114 seems to have larger wheel diameters than 1226. This is like wg threw wz111, 1226, obj 120 into a pot and made a stew.
The 1226 is a bit more bulbous than the one on the 114 and has a more raised front from the hull. I can see some degree of resemblance though in the overall shape.
I am from China and I like your channel. I can give you some additional information. The "WZ" means not only armored vehicles, the "W" refers to the "Fifth Ministry of Mechanical Industry", which was established in September 1963 as a government agency to manage the weapons industry and related research institutions and even schools. In May 1982, it was renamed the "Ministry of Weapons Industry". The "Z" itself refers to armored vehicles. The first "1" in "WZ111" refers to Tank, if it is the "2" it means Armored Cars, and "3" are SPGs. The second "1" is a heavy tank, "2" is a medium tank, "3" is a light tank, and "4" is an airborne tank. The third "1" refers to the sequence of development, and the first tank to be developed will be indicated as "1". So the exact meaning of "WZ111" is "Fifth Ministry of Mechanical Industry - Armored Vehicle - Tank - Heavy - First". However, it should be noted that the title "WZ "has only been in use since the 80s, so China's only heavy tank cannot be called "WZ111", but only "111". By the way, this naming system is no longer used in China. The only Chinese tanks now are "ZTZ" and "ZTQ", the "Z" refers to Armored Vehicles, "T" are Tanks, the second "Z" are Main battle tanks, and "Q" are Light tanks.
As for my opinion on fake/paper tanks, I don't love them but I admit they serve an important role of filling out the tech trees of smaller nations (China, Sweden, Czech, Italy). However the Wz-114 being a TIER 9 PREMIUM, is a blatant cash grab and I dislike it.
it actually looks pretty cool and realistic, and let's be honest, it is nowhere near as cursed as some other 'frankentanks' WoT came up with over the years
I share the viewpoint of the importance of distinction between imagined tanks, “paper” tanks, prototype tanks and active service tanks. For an industry representative like World of Tanks to askew data and make it ambiguous is a disgrace and a travesty. They have lost a large amount of respect AND credibility in my own eyes as a result of this
Really good video trying to present what you could find. I’m fine with fake tanks (or paper tanks) they add a interesting “what if” to WoT and I enjoy it, also at the same time if you didn’t do these “What if” tanks a lot of WoT wouldn’t exist if we only did tanks that have seen actual combat or at least steel prototype.
I honestly love this series but I feel it will essentially become a World of Tanks high tier historical accuracy review XD I honestly like that though, as it would be nice to know how little the tanks in the game actually existed, even as paper tanks.
I should note that more on this mystery was part of World of Tanks Blitz, the mobile port. The WZ-111 is their attempt at an IS-3 copy, for better or worse when heavy tank designs were getting to be obsolete. The WZ-112, and variations of it in WoTB were based around a transition between it and the WZ-113. So some had the WZ-111 hull with elements of the type 59 design, and others had the WZ-113 hull with the IS-3-like turret. The 113, which is most probably fake, is their attempt at making something like the type 59 but fashioned into a heavy tank. Parts commonality and putting a 122mm rifled gun on a heavier chassis were the goal. So I can conclude the 114 must be some extension of the design of the 112-113 with enhanced armor or armament in mind.
I feel that these "what if "vehicles are a symptom of wargaming running out of meaningful designs to add to a tech tree, as a game designer I get the frustration of hitting that roadblock. The idea I don't outright hate, honestly if they made fake nations running fake tanks that follow real world tank design doctrine then that could make for an interesting game. Hell a combined arms game like warthunder in that vein could be very interesting, but now we're just talking about preproduction of a game that likely won't exist. The only thing I have issue with is them peddling it as real when it isn't.
I remember when World of Tanks first came out it was only World War 1 and WWII vehicles and paper AKA Concepts now you got cold war and main battle tank I do miss the good old days
Really great breakdown, it's amazing seeing how the full breadth of your knowledge and research can be applied to figuring out what went into the creation of this tank. That said I'm sure you're correct that it is fake, I don't play World of Tanks as I prefer the realism of War Thunder's physics engine but if I did I'd appreciate the idea of expanding available models with new designs inspired by the real thing. However I think it'd make sense to label the fake tanks as such, if only so that players don't end up believing they are real and trying to discuss them outside the game.
I don't mind fake vehicles. But I would like Wargaming to own up to it, and just say they made it up. If they go around claiming it was real, it just makes the Chinese tank history a mess.
Not sure about you guys on the WoT side but WeeGee has been doing this with ships for a very long time. At the very start, most lines were filled with historical ships, with maybe the T10 being either a paper-ship (actually designed, sometimes even laid down but not finished) or a plausible imaginary ship (which is fair enough). Then they slowly started to add more and more paper ships...then imaginary, then adding 1910s designs into T10, then 1960s designs into T10 to what we now have, an utter cluster. The worst thing is half of the new trees are pretty much completely imaginary where there still a solid half-dozen trees that can be created with the vast majority being historical ships....
WZ-111 was cancelled because it was 1965, heavy tanks were obsolete. Armor technology of the day were ineffective against ATGMs and the new tank guns. While in theory China could have built something like the WZ-114 in 1970, the question is why would they? Not even rich countries were willing to waste money on heavy tanks.
I have heard of several countries taking pieces from one tank design and bolting it onto to a completely different tanks sometimes out of necessity like the Chinese captured LVTs or some American Frankenstein tanks that were just cobbled together to test out combining different design ideas. Would not be the first time someone did some creative guesswork based on a photo.
I like the fact that WoT does fake vehicles, they are definitely a more arcade game than something like War Thunder which gives them their own pleasures but it means WoT can have more fun with vehicle design. I mean a few years ago they made tanks from the Valkyria chronicles video games/anime
If I’m not mistaken they were describing Chinese engineers (as opposed to WoT devs) having designed a tank based on Soviet stuff, which would make it a ‘paper tank’. This fits with “no metal prototypes were made” (paraphrased) and talking about how it probably influenced later designs regardless, neither of which make any sense if it wasn’t an actual design in blueprint form at the time. Not saying that proves it’s a real design, just trying to decipher what they said about it. They could be being intentionally vague/misleading, my guess would be that there was a real tank at least proposed but with very little info about it being available, they made up most of the details.
If its in WoT its very likely to be fake. Waste of Time (WoT) departs historical accuracy above the lower tiers and progressively moves from tanks in production that saw service, to prototypes, to sketches on the back of a beer coaster at a Wargamming Christmas Party to absolute fantasy. WoT = Fantasy Tanks.
I really do enjoy and appreciate the talent and imagination of game designers as one who grew up in the world of pinball machines and the marvel of Pong. That said, I do think designers have a responsibility to the consumer public when they are using so much specific real historical information in creating their product in that they should declare something actually real or fake. It’s not right to, on one hand, be so historically precise, then turn around and pass off something else as as real when it is not. They should declare a tank imaginary if it is, so to avoid confusion and mistrust later on of their other real world content.
So in WoT, the chinese heavies are: the IS-2, 110, WZ-111, 112, WZ-111 Model 1-4, WZ-114, 113 and the WZ-111 Model 5A. Sorta ignoring the IS-2, we have a pattern, WG probably didn't name everything with the "WZ" to help avoid confusion mid battle but it is clear they all would have it. The thing is, the tier 9 name actually reads "WZ-111 models 1 through 4" implying the tank is a representation of 4 different models. Models that, with this new premium tank, are all present in the game individually :D To be fair, when the chinese tech tree was introduced I think there was only the WZ-111 in the game files and it took a while for it to become available. Just some pedantic curiosity.
I know that there are plenty of suggestions for fake tanks to look at in these comments, but I think a look into the 'Rumour' that multiple M3 Lee's got outfitted with a 17 pounder in the hull in North Africa (or perhaps Italy, I can't remember which the Rumour said) might be a fun subject as well. There is even a 'Modified' M3 in the Pakistani tank museum which has a dummy 17 pounder mounted instead of the 75 and the turret removed that is often shown as 'evidence' that it was in fact a real modification.
War Gaming be like: IDEA, modified WZ-111 hull with the turret of object-120 with real armor instead of paper sheets and a 130mm copy and paste gun on it. NEW PREMIUM TANK EVERYBODY
I don't mind fake tanks, but I don't think it should be played off as a paper tank in advertising, it should be a straight "We made this tank as a 'what if the 111 program didn't fail' sort of deal"
Cone I am pretty amazed by the Content you have made Fake Tank Friday is amazing and I love learning more about Tanks and they History. And you dont need to have a Riot against Wargaming,you just dont play it,as for a Person that loves History WoT isnt really hitting the Realistic spot. That and me Testing out both WoT and War Thunder to compare em. In War Thunder you get less Rage then in WoT. But if you like Arcady tank battles,well I suppose WoT is the game for you whit its Inaccuracy of a what should be a Tank. Still tho I love the Content and Keep it up buddy,would love to learn more about Tanks from Both Games.
I'm so tired of fake tanks when there are plenty of real vehicles not in the game yet. Italians had tank destroyers and both production and prototype. The Japanese had prototype tank destroyers and spgs. The Czechs had tank destroyers. Plus not to mention you could bring in many anti aircraft vehicles that had a dual purpose role. These would be especially effective vs light tanks. The more they come out with fictional tanks the more I'm thinking of taking my business to war thunder.
Not to mention Yugoslavia, Switzerland, Romania, Hungary, and Israel could all support tech trees. Brazil and Argentina probably could as well, and could easily do so if merged into a "Pan-America" like in World of Warships.
I mean the only issue I have is Wargamming does not clarify is fictiobnal... Like the Super Planes in Ace combat, or the Fictional Cars in Gran Tourismo... Like they are fun and WOT has more then enough Service, and paper tanks that having fictional ones just make sense for a live service game.
there are 4 types of non-built designs: 1) mockup, like panther 88mm, (wooden, or mild steel. small scale of full scale) 2) paper 1: blueprint, like E50 (sawings) 3) paper 2, ie semi-fake: proposed, like E50M (no surviveing drawings [if any existed] but idea was actually proposed by actual designers/etc. resulting in semi-fake designs like wargamings E50M) 4) full fake: not even proposed, full on made up by modern game makers or book writers, etc. like Waffentrager E100. this seems to be a 4, pretending to be a 2 or 3
Hey cone as a player from WOT blitz we are getting a unique line of Japanese heavies with the tier ten being the Type 71 which I doubt if a actual design from good ol Japan
Nothing gets my blood boiling more then a damn fake tank in a game with already paper tanks! Outrageous such a thing would be added to ruin my immersion in the game!
Wargaming's 'paper tanks' is really proof positive that there's a market for a tank game where all the factions, and thus all the tanks, are entirely fictional. So long as each 'nation' has a distinctive tank design philosophy you'll be golden, since it's clear players are actually more interested in interesting tanks than strict historical accuracy (War Thunder players hacking actual defense department records as notable outliers...).
Honestly, I wouldn't have a problem with it in a game whether war thunder or world of tanks. And reality is cool. I think these experimental designs are useful to study as well as every design choice leads to consequences.
Personally as a former Blitz player I really like Wargamings fake tank designs, especially their all original ones. I would love to play a version of the game where all the tank trees are driven by gameplay and cool factor. I do think representing it as a possibly real tank is dishonest though and they should be more up front about speculative tanks they throw out there.
I have zero issues with WG coming up with "fake" tanks. They will eventually run out of real tanks, and tank designs. As long as they seem plausible, I am fine with it.
I have no problem with them mashing things together to make something that never existed, like putting the amx 100 turret on a 30b hull, however i do draw the line when everything was clearly made up.
GR8 vid. Not much for gaming but do a lot of model building. Most of my stuff is making what ifs. Off topic, how 'bout something on the TR- 85 M1 Bizonul from Romania? Suggested vids are top shelf 👍 many thanx.
I started playing Workd of Tanks in 2014 and really enjoy your videos. Keep up the good work. As far as tanks real vs fake or paper, it wpuld be pretty slim picki s if they relied only on real ones. Except those cursed French clown cars....😠 lol
So likely this is a result of performance reports on WZ-111 and what changes needed to be made? Name is imaginary and the problematic part is the turret?
Wish WG would just go all Ham on the fake stuff. They hide behing "historical accuracy" yet make fake stuff all the time. SU-130PM = SU-100 with magical 130mm gun Prog. 46. etc etc. just go nuts and give us crazy stuff. Make a *World* of tanks from *all* media. I wanna see a tier 10 baneblade or a Tier 8 Leman Russ tank or a tier 6 Scorpion Tank (Command and Conquer Generals). I realize that that would be... alot of things. Damn near impossible due to things like copyright (good like dealing with EA for C&C or GW or anyone else). but damn that would be fun...
It's fake, just like many WG ideas. So many real tanks they could use, but they constantly use Yuri's Vodka filled imagination to create tanks to fill a perceived need. Great vid, and like others have said, plenty of fake WG tanks for a large series of it's own
Honestly it's neat, but the barrel is far to long and possibly even so long it can't even be moved on train because even pointed backwards it seems that it could stick out the lengh of the tank itself making it even less practicle since it might need a barrel removal to have it work..
I only play WOTBlitz, Iv been playing the “skoda t56” I know the tank was never built but it would be cool if you did a video on this tank, or most of the skoda tanks in blitz. Love the work you do, thanks for the video
Wg are working on a different form of Japanese heavy tanks on Blitz Not the super heavies PC players have Would be cool for you to check out on it when it comes out
Well, if this fake thing is bad, WG also made a whole line of faked tanks. The Chinese TD line. Hell, they even have FT for fake tank in each of their names.
I dont know if you are trying to be sarcastic, but "FT" is short for 反坦克炮 fantankepao, which roughly translates to "anti-tank gun". But im not gonna defend the fact most of Chinese TD tanks are fake.
![SahBabii - Viking [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/D37cL92JX0I/mqdefault.jpg)
What's your opinion on this tank? Is it a sin to create this type of fake or is it an interesting "what if" tank? Either way if you liked this video you should check out some of my other videos on Chinese tanks like the WZ-111 and WZ-122:
ruclips.net/video/lT_n_rdj-Vo/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/aPi30YjRozg/видео.html
Hey I play WoT Blitz and drive a “Dracula” so I don’t get a vote. 😂
Can you make a case about the tank in the Raseiniai battle? Some said it was a KV-1, some said it was a KV-2. What would be the real one?
I don't think it is a sin to create hypothetical tanks for a video game. They should be careful when releasing promotional material that implies the vehicle actually existed. We have enough unfortunate cases of fake tanks being mistaken for real vehicles without adding fuel to the fire.
Video is fine. It's all fake ofcourse, because it's fake friday. But that aside, its a tank in World of Tanks. They ran out of real tanks a while ago. They just learned not to give it 6 round clips that could kill any tank in the game in 7.5 seconds. Other then that, there will be plenty of idiots paying for it and for the game itself, and that will keep the fake tanks coming for years more. I'm just glad it's not any of my money anymore. So fake or not, its good business either way for Wargaming.
These guys have probably done the research to make something that's plausible, and I don't mind 'what-iffery' - though this is coming from a guy who's at the moment conceptualizing what a '67 Porsche F1 car might've looked like, with a prototype of the 908 engine...
You could keep this series running for years with just high tier designs from wargaming
I think even if he decide make 2-3 vid about fake tank a week,he will never run out of material for 2 year
true lmao
dont even need to go to high tiers tbf, way too many fake tanks in that game. One of the major off puts.
All world of tanks are prototype and came from modules
Right?? I wonder what the ratio of real to imaginary is in WOWS Blitz???🙄
Cone, please do a video on the god awful "TigerWolf" tank. Made by a bunch of US Military "Reformers" You know the people who thought the Bradley was just an M113 with a turret and thought the Military needs to use worse vehicles if it means it's a bit cheaper, and all with the hope that this would somehow reduce casualities.
Btw, I got the Tankgirl plushie. I've kept it in the bag it came with, but my 4-Year-old Neice found the bag and is in love with the plushie. Whenever she comes to my house she asks if she could see the plushie and play with it. I don't even think she knows what a tank is, she just likes the plushie
Dont forget the AeroGavin.
Can you imagine if they actually got the A-10 in service I mean what a disaster that would be hahaha outdated technology, useless gun, no targeting systems, all because they still believe in the romanticised WWI/II dogfight… oh wait
@@shardell These guys had nothing to do with the A-10. Pierre Sprey claimed that (he also claimed that he designed the F-15 and the F-22, which he clearly didn't. He was a fucking sound engineer and jazz musician), but the A-10 had been at least partly designed by Alexander Kartveli, the guy who also designed the P-47 Thunderbolt, F-84 Thunderjet/Thunderstreak and F-105 Thunderchief.
@@AldanFerrox I know, but the reformers are a large part of the reason it’s still in service
That's cute
If you do reviews on similar vehicles in World of Tanks for Fake Tank Friday, you will not run out of content anytime soon.
I totally agree.
tier 8 alone should last him months
@@inconsistencyon True, LOL!
@@inconsistencyon Years!
Hey Cone. Some months ago WG teased us, WoT Blitz players, with a new heavy line for the japanese. Yesterday they released another teaser, with the tier 10 tank model finished. They call it the Type-71. It looks pretty much like a heavier STB-1 kind of tank. Couldn't find anything about, so it can be potential content for your channel. The same goes for a future german tank that they will include in a battlepass, the VK 35.02, that has recently been leaked by data miners. Greetings from Chile!
yeah ive tried to and nothing lol
Wait, battlepass tanks arent historicaly accurate? damnit, i really thought, the Eraser was used in the cyber war of 2117
@@basalt_delta_gaming they used the Icebreaker and Kryos during the cold war right?
@@basalt_delta_gaming well yeah, but this one is a vk36 with a tiger turret, well the next one will be
@@syedahmad1777 I mean the tanks they are based on are very real
Yes it makes rage.. but only a little bit. My problem with WG isn't so much making fake tanks, but rather selling fake tanks as historical projects. "Only existed in blueprints" used to mean that for the most part, but now it's more "Only existed in WG plans" I just wish they'd be more transparent with saying that the designs are artist interpretations or concepts. As opposed to continuing to feed parts of the community, who might not want research each tank, all kinds of BS about developments of armored vehicles that have zero historical basis but are still presented as history.
Thats the problem of game, for years they did almoust nothing, only adding countless tanks(mostly make believe projects) to keep players addicted. Maps and gameplay are mostly the same.
Oh, but rest assured that those fake tanks will be 'properly balanced' for game play, lest they result in power creep....HAHAHAHAHA!
I think the Manticore would be a good topic for this series, mainly because despite what people say about it being a fake vehicle made up by WG, it’s actually a real design (albeit with a different name)
if i know it correctly the manticores real name is chimera 1955
Yeah it's the chimera 1955, armoured archive has a video on it
@@T_PLAYER Yep. In fact, there were at least 3 British tank designs named Chimera. In addition to the Chimera 1950 and Chimera 1955 that are in World of Tanks, there's also the Chimera 1984, which would've converted Chieftain hulls into a low profile casemate TD using the Challenger 2's gun.
(A pity Britain didn't bring back the Chimera name instead of going with "Challenger 3", since it's kind of a chimera of Challenger 2 and Leopard 2.)
The turret in a way looks awfully a lot like the 1226 as well, so is the side skirt and the six pairs of roadwheels. However, the 114 seems to have larger wheel diameters than 1226. This is like wg threw wz111, 1226, obj 120 into a pot and made a stew.
The 1226 is a bit more bulbous than the one on the 114 and has a more raised front from the hull. I can see some degree of resemblance though in the overall shape.
I thought it looked like an Object 120
My brain immediately went object 120 the second I saw the tank. It’s a fake but after the Chinese TD branch this isn’t that bad. Sadly
I am from China and I like your channel. I can give you some additional information. The "WZ" means not only armored vehicles, the "W" refers to the "Fifth Ministry of Mechanical Industry", which was established in September 1963 as a government agency to manage the weapons industry and related research institutions and even schools. In May 1982, it was renamed the "Ministry of Weapons Industry". The "Z" itself refers to armored vehicles.
The first "1" in "WZ111" refers to Tank, if it is the "2" it means Armored Cars, and "3" are SPGs.
The second "1" is a heavy tank, "2" is a medium tank, "3" is a light tank, and "4" is an airborne tank.
The third "1" refers to the sequence of development, and the first tank to be developed will be indicated as "1".
So the exact meaning of "WZ111" is "Fifth Ministry of Mechanical Industry - Armored Vehicle - Tank - Heavy - First".
However, it should be noted that the title "WZ "has only been in use since the 80s, so China's only heavy tank cannot be called "WZ111", but only "111".
By the way, this naming system is no longer used in China. The only Chinese tanks now are "ZTZ" and "ZTQ", the "Z" refers to Armored Vehicles, "T" are Tanks, the second "Z" are Main battle tanks, and "Q" are Light tanks.
I think a neat phrase for something that does not even meet the criteria for "paper tank" could be "vapor tank".
WG source: "It came to me in a dream"
As for my opinion on fake/paper tanks, I don't love them but I admit they serve an important role of filling out the tech trees of smaller nations (China, Sweden, Czech, Italy). However the Wz-114 being a TIER 9 PREMIUM, is a blatant cash grab and I dislike it.
WG: *_"My "Source" is that "I made it the f u ck up"."_*
A video about the Japanese heavy tanks would clear some confusion around the tank community and would be very interesting
Ho-Ri included I hope.
it actually looks pretty cool and realistic, and let's be honest, it is nowhere near as cursed as some other 'frankentanks' WoT came up with over the years
I share the viewpoint of the importance of distinction between imagined tanks, “paper” tanks, prototype tanks and active service tanks. For an industry representative like World of Tanks to askew data and make it ambiguous is a disgrace and a travesty. They have lost a large amount of respect AND credibility in my own eyes as a result of this
This reminds me of the classic movie introduction... Based on actual events. Which seems to mean .. people really exist ..
Really good video trying to present what you could find. I’m fine with fake tanks (or paper tanks) they add a interesting “what if” to WoT and I enjoy it, also at the same time if you didn’t do these “What if” tanks a lot of WoT wouldn’t exist if we only did tanks that have seen actual combat or at least steel prototype.
Totally agree with your view
I honestly love this series but I feel it will essentially become a World of Tanks high tier historical accuracy review XD
I honestly like that though, as it would be nice to know how little the tanks in the game actually existed, even as paper tanks.
I should note that more on this mystery was part of World of Tanks Blitz, the mobile port.
The WZ-111 is their attempt at an IS-3 copy, for better or worse when heavy tank designs were getting to be obsolete. The WZ-112, and variations of it in WoTB were based around a transition between it and the WZ-113. So some had the WZ-111 hull with elements of the type 59 design, and others had the WZ-113 hull with the IS-3-like turret.
The 113, which is most probably fake, is their attempt at making something like the type 59 but fashioned into a heavy tank. Parts commonality and putting a 122mm rifled gun on a heavier chassis were the goal.
So I can conclude the 114 must be some extension of the design of the 112-113 with enhanced armor or armament in mind.
I have no problem with making stuff up, but it would be nice to have a what if disclamar or somthing
Pls do 1950s-70s era mbts like the Kpz 07 rh, astron Rex, and kpz 50t
Yay, I love fake tank fridays!
I feel that these "what if "vehicles are a symptom of wargaming running out of meaningful designs to add to a tech tree, as a game designer I get the frustration of hitting that roadblock.
The idea I don't outright hate, honestly if they made fake nations running fake tanks that follow real world tank design doctrine then that could make for an interesting game.
Hell a combined arms game like warthunder in that vein could be very interesting, but now we're just talking about preproduction of a game that likely won't exist.
The only thing I have issue with is them peddling it as real when it isn't.
Or they could just do what WoT console did...move to the Cold War Era
WG: Dude, now draw a turret and a hull here. Then we assign random values, print the final fiction story and feed it to people.
I’m really liking these it’s a good change of pace
I remember when World of Tanks first came out it was only World War 1 and WWII vehicles and paper AKA Concepts now you got cold war and main battle tank I do miss the good old days
Really great breakdown, it's amazing seeing how the full breadth of your knowledge and research can be applied to figuring out what went into the creation of this tank. That said I'm sure you're correct that it is fake, I don't play World of Tanks as I prefer the realism of War Thunder's physics engine but if I did I'd appreciate the idea of expanding available models with new designs inspired by the real thing. However I think it'd make sense to label the fake tanks as such, if only so that players don't end up believing they are real and trying to discuss them outside the game.
The 114 SP2 is another (probably) fake in wot, very similar to the WZ-114 but with the suspension of the WZ-111
I don't mind fake vehicles. But I would like Wargaming to own up to it, and just say they made it up.
If they go around claiming it was real, it just makes the Chinese tank history a mess.
Not sure about you guys on the WoT side but WeeGee has been doing this with ships for a very long time.
At the very start, most lines were filled with historical ships, with maybe the T10 being either a paper-ship (actually designed, sometimes even laid down but not finished) or a plausible imaginary ship (which is fair enough). Then they slowly started to add more and more paper ships...then imaginary, then adding 1910s designs into T10, then 1960s designs into T10 to what we now have, an utter cluster. The worst thing is half of the new trees are pretty much completely imaginary where there still a solid half-dozen trees that can be created with the vast majority being historical ships....
I really wish, as an American, that we used "zed" instead of "z". It just sounds so much better, more refined.
as a Canadian, I just use whichever pronunciation fits the flow better. Grammar's what you make it, and language is mutable - use that power wisely.
WZ-111 was cancelled because it was 1965, heavy tanks were obsolete. Armor technology of the day were ineffective against ATGMs and the new tank guns. While in theory China could have built something like the WZ-114 in 1970, the question is why would they? Not even rich countries were willing to waste money on heavy tanks.
I love blueprint and fake but theoretically possible tanks in WoT, adds variety and keeps the game alive
I'd love it if a fake tank Friday was dedicated to the ru251 from wot. But that won't happen
I have heard of several countries taking pieces from one tank design and bolting it onto to a completely different tanks sometimes out of necessity like the Chinese captured LVTs or some American Frankenstein tanks that were just cobbled together to test out combining different design ideas. Would not be the first time someone did some creative guesswork based on a photo.
i think the fake tanks make for good content honestly, they are usually fun and have quirks you would never see with real ones.
I like the fact that WoT does fake vehicles, they are definitely a more arcade game than something like War Thunder which gives them their own pleasures but it means WoT can have more fun with vehicle design. I mean a few years ago they made tanks from the Valkyria chronicles video games/anime
me: puts an e100 turret on an is7 Classis
Wargaming: vErY ReAliStIk
I feel as though the engine is just a generic thing.
Being based on the V-2, the later numbers might mean 1954-design, SuperCharged.
Just another heavy to push certain aspects, from others have heard ammo rack is protected by paper thin armor
"Loosely based on the Soviet school of tank building."
More vapor tank than paper.
If I’m not mistaken they were describing Chinese engineers (as opposed to WoT devs) having designed a tank based on Soviet stuff, which would make it a ‘paper tank’. This fits with “no metal prototypes were made” (paraphrased) and talking about how it probably influenced later designs regardless, neither of which make any sense if it wasn’t an actual design in blueprint form at the time.
Not saying that proves it’s a real design, just trying to decipher what they said about it. They could be being intentionally vague/misleading, my guess would be that there was a real tank at least proposed but with very little info about it being available, they made up most of the details.
I'm very enraged. Not because of this video though, I'm just very enraged in general.
I'm enjoying Fake Tank Fridays! Solid and interesting video, keep 'em coming!
Their RNG is Heinous, like an FV 4002 bouncing a 30m side shot on a medium tank. This is just someone's fun "what if" tank.
If its in WoT its very likely to be fake. Waste of Time (WoT) departs historical accuracy above the lower tiers and progressively moves from tanks in production that saw service, to prototypes, to sketches on the back of a beer coaster at a Wargamming Christmas Party to absolute fantasy. WoT = Fantasy Tanks.
I really do enjoy and appreciate the talent and imagination of game designers as one who grew up in the world of pinball machines and the marvel of Pong. That said, I do think designers have a responsibility to the consumer public when they are using so much specific real historical information in creating their product in that they should declare something actually real or fake. It’s not right to, on one hand, be so historically precise, then turn around and pass off something else as as real when it is not. They should declare a tank imaginary if it is, so to avoid confusion and mistrust later on of their other real world content.
So in WoT, the chinese heavies are: the IS-2, 110, WZ-111, 112, WZ-111 Model 1-4, WZ-114, 113 and the WZ-111 Model 5A. Sorta ignoring the IS-2, we have a pattern, WG probably didn't name everything with the "WZ" to help avoid confusion mid battle but it is clear they all would have it. The thing is, the tier 9 name actually reads "WZ-111 models 1 through 4" implying the tank is a representation of 4 different models. Models that, with this new premium tank, are all present in the game individually :D
To be fair, when the chinese tech tree was introduced I think there was only the WZ-111 in the game files and it took a while for it to become available.
Just some pedantic curiosity.
this tank looked too much soviet from the start for me.
Great video. Next you should do the fake 279 and chieftain WG has in their game.
Fun fact. 120th name "Taran" translation it's "ram" in context of sige weapon)
This is why i left world of tanks and joined war thunder even in arcade mode in warthunder it just outshine wot in evry way
I know that there are plenty of suggestions for fake tanks to look at in these comments, but I think a look into the 'Rumour' that multiple M3 Lee's got outfitted with a 17 pounder in the hull in North Africa (or perhaps Italy, I can't remember which the Rumour said) might be a fun subject as well. There is even a 'Modified' M3 in the Pakistani tank museum which has a dummy 17 pounder mounted instead of the 75 and the turret removed that is often shown as 'evidence' that it was in fact a real modification.
i wonder if you did a video about the film of 2019 "T-34"
WoT goes paper-less! Doesn't even need a sketch on a napkin.
War Gaming be like: IDEA, modified WZ-111 hull with the turret of object-120 with real armor instead of paper sheets and a 130mm copy and paste gun on it. NEW PREMIUM TANK EVERYBODY
you were expecting something realistic from world of tanks? brave soul
I don't mind fake tanks, but I don't think it should be played off as a paper tank in advertising, it should be a straight "We made this tank as a 'what if the 111 program didn't fail' sort of deal"
I prefer paper tanks to outright fake, but honestly the only thing I hate is the normalization of tier 9 premiums
Cone I am pretty amazed by the Content you have made
Fake Tank Friday is amazing and I love learning more about Tanks and they History.
And you dont need to have a Riot against Wargaming,you just dont play it,as for a Person that loves History WoT isnt really hitting the Realistic spot.
That and me Testing out both WoT and War Thunder to compare em.
In War Thunder you get less Rage then in WoT.
But if you like Arcady tank battles,well I suppose WoT is the game for you whit its Inaccuracy of a what should be a Tank.
Still tho I love the Content and Keep it up buddy,would love to learn more about Tanks from Both Games.
The intro is magnificient
I'm so tired of fake tanks when there are plenty of real vehicles not in the game yet.
Italians had tank destroyers and both production and prototype.
The Japanese had prototype tank destroyers and spgs.
The Czechs had tank destroyers.
Plus not to mention you could bring in many anti aircraft vehicles that had a dual purpose role. These would be especially effective vs light tanks.
The more they come out with fictional tanks the more I'm thinking of taking my business to war thunder.
I mean, in Wargaming's other game called World of Tanks Blitz, they added an exclusive Japanese TD line
Not to mention Yugoslavia, Switzerland, Romania, Hungary, and Israel could all support tech trees. Brazil and Argentina probably could as well, and could easily do so if merged into a "Pan-America" like in World of Warships.
I mean the only issue I have is Wargamming does not clarify is fictiobnal... Like the Super Planes in Ace combat, or the Fictional Cars in Gran Tourismo... Like they are fun and WOT has more then enough Service, and paper tanks that having fictional ones just make sense for a live service game.
WOW, so Wargaming IS implementing non-existing projects/machines to game! What a plot-twist!!! xD I can't wait for the Tiger III xD
World of Tanks tanks always look so much like toys rather then multiton beasts
there are 4 types of non-built designs:
1) mockup, like panther 88mm, (wooden, or mild steel. small scale of full scale)
2) paper 1: blueprint, like E50 (sawings)
3) paper 2, ie semi-fake: proposed, like E50M (no surviveing drawings [if any existed] but idea was actually proposed by actual designers/etc. resulting in semi-fake designs like wargamings E50M)
4) full fake: not even proposed, full on made up by modern game makers or book writers, etc. like Waffentrager E100.
this seems to be a 4, pretending to be a 2 or 3
It's almost as if War Gaming and World of Tanks use a lot of Blueprint tanks and fill in the gaps most the time.
POV: your social credit was never there in the first place
This series on wot blitz 💀
The 114 is basically a Chinese copy of the 60TP judging by the looks of it. Great video anyway!
I knew the 114's turret looked familiar. I knew it!
Hey cone as a player from WOT blitz we are getting a unique line of Japanese heavies with the tier ten being the Type 71 which I doubt if a actual design from good ol Japan
My favorite blueprint tank in WOT is the VK30.02D, the one who lost to the panther
The words "Fake" and "China" come with such ease like they were made for each other.
Nothing gets my blood boiling more then a damn fake tank in a game with already paper tanks! Outrageous such a thing would be added to ruin my immersion in the game!
Wargaming's 'paper tanks' is really proof positive that there's a market for a tank game where all the factions, and thus all the tanks, are entirely fictional.
So long as each 'nation' has a distinctive tank design philosophy you'll be golden, since it's clear players are actually more interested in interesting tanks than strict historical accuracy (War Thunder players hacking actual defense department records as notable outliers...).
I love fake tank fridays
Hey, I would like you to do more fake tanks and prototype tanks.
Have you considered doing a fake tank Friday video on one of the Northern Coalition’s designs from Deserts of Karak?
Honestly, I wouldn't have a problem with it in a game whether war thunder or world of tanks. And reality is cool. I think these experimental designs are useful to study as well as every design choice leads to consequences.
Personally as a former Blitz player I really like Wargamings fake tank designs, especially their all original ones. I would love to play a version of the game where all the tank trees are driven by gameplay and cool factor. I do think representing it as a possibly real tank is dishonest though and they should be more up front about speculative tanks they throw out there.
I am pretty sure the Yoh tanks are waitting just for you Cone
lol i didnt expect to see this tank here this soon.
I have zero issues with WG coming up with "fake" tanks. They will eventually run out of real tanks, and tank designs. As long as they seem plausible, I am fine with it.
I have no problem with them mashing things together to make something that never existed, like putting the amx 100 turret on a 30b hull, however i do draw the line when everything was clearly made up.
GR8 vid. Not much for gaming but do a lot of model building. Most of my stuff is making what ifs. Off topic, how 'bout something on the TR- 85 M1 Bizonul from Romania?
Suggested vids are top shelf 👍 many thanx.
I’d love to see an episode dedicated to the Halloween event tanks from world of tanks blitz
I started playing Workd of Tanks in 2014 and really enjoy your videos. Keep up the good work. As far as tanks real vs fake or paper, it wpuld be pretty slim picki s if they relied only on real ones. Except those cursed French clown cars....😠 lol
Love these series
So likely this is a result of performance reports on WZ-111 and what changes needed to be made? Name is imaginary and the problematic part is the turret?
Wish WG would just go all Ham on the fake stuff. They hide behing "historical accuracy" yet make fake stuff all the time.
SU-130PM = SU-100 with magical 130mm gun
Prog. 46.
etc etc.
just go nuts and give us crazy stuff. Make a *World* of tanks from *all* media. I wanna see a tier 10 baneblade or a Tier 8 Leman Russ tank or a tier 6 Scorpion Tank (Command and Conquer Generals).
I realize that that would be... alot of things. Damn near impossible due to things like copyright (good like dealing with EA for C&C or GW or anyone else). but damn that would be fun...
I get used to fake tanks on WG ever since I've entered the game coz my friend told me almost all of the new tanks they have introduced are made up.
It's fake, just like many WG ideas. So many real tanks they could use, but they constantly use Yuri's Vodka filled imagination to create tanks to fill a perceived need.
Great vid, and like others have said, plenty of fake WG tanks for a large series of it's own
Honestly it's neat, but the barrel is far to long and possibly even so long it can't even be moved on train because even pointed backwards it seems that it could stick out the lengh of the tank itself making it even less practicle since it might need a barrel removal to have it work..
Made out of Chineseium by a factory worker named Lao Zhe.
I only play WOTBlitz, Iv been playing the “skoda t56” I know the tank was never built but it would be cool if you did a video on this tank, or most of the skoda tanks in blitz. Love the work you do, thanks for the video
Wg are working on a different form of Japanese heavy tanks on Blitz
Not the super heavies PC players have
Would be cool for you to check out on it when it comes out
it looks like an Object 120 turret on a Type 61 hull
the turret and gun do look like the turret and gun of the Object 120
The turret of the tank looks similar to the Object 120
For some odd reason, I’m getting Patton tank series vibes from this…
Well, if this fake thing is bad, WG also made a whole line of faked tanks. The Chinese TD line. Hell, they even have FT for fake tank in each of their names.
I dont know if you are trying to be sarcastic, but "FT" is short for 反坦克炮 fantankepao, which roughly translates to "anti-tank gun". But im not gonna defend the fact most of Chinese TD tanks are fake.