Stuart Hameroff - Toward a Science of Consciousness

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  • Опубликовано: 2 фев 2025

Комментарии • 135

  • @missh1774
    @missh1774 6 месяцев назад +1

    Microtubules and slate upgrades to apply standards in non local environments with alot of building out bits in zero energy space. Thanks Robert. I don't think I had ever seen this one 💛

  • @emotiveenergy4598
    @emotiveenergy4598 6 месяцев назад +2

    Hameroff merely mentions Global Workspace Theory (GWT - Bernard Baars) in passing, but a number of investigators have been attracted to it (myself included). It resolves David Chalmers' hard problem' by putting Consciousness into a Workspace - a common & universal practice in software development. Related & supportive work for GWT has been done by Antonio Damasio ("The Feeling of What Happens"), David Eagleman ("Incognito"), and Victor S. Johnston ("Why We Feel").

    • @monporoshneog4725
      @monporoshneog4725 2 месяца назад

      @@emotiveenergy4598 So much advancement in Science and technology and we humans still not able to understand how the hack the first so called simple cell formed, and you are talking about giving a materialstic Solution for Consciousness! Science is good but I guess you haven't understood the limitations of Science.

  • @kkdannykk
    @kkdannykk 5 месяцев назад

    The idea that microtubules could play a role in consciousness is mind-blowing. It challenges the usual belief that consciousness comes only from neural connections. If these tiny structures inside our neurons are actually influencing how we experience the world, it could change everything we know about the brain. It’s still just a theory, but it’s ideas like this that push science forward. could microtubules be the key to understanding consciousness?

  • @marcusrosales3344
    @marcusrosales3344 6 месяцев назад +1

    I only clicked on this video because the first time I did acid was at this table at night lol. Discussing consciousness seems apt to this table...

  • @josephhruby3225
    @josephhruby3225 6 месяцев назад +3

    EXelent . . . ThnX for the synopsis.

  • @CouplesLite
    @CouplesLite 4 месяца назад

    💯💯💯

  • @sholoms
    @sholoms 6 месяцев назад +1

    Is this conference still going?

    • @PetraKann
      @PetraKann 6 месяцев назад

      Some things never end

  • @pvishwanathrai
    @pvishwanathrai 6 месяцев назад

    Consciousness ist the absolute subjective self without which life cannot function at any level of existence.

  • @workingTchr
    @workingTchr 6 месяцев назад +2

    Why would a waveform collapse spark consciousness? I don't see the hard problem solved by this at all. The ONLY solution I have found to the hard problem is solipsism! This is the universe fu*king with me letting in clues. I know, I know. And I have to say that seeing people like Hameroff and Kuhn struggle with these issues really undermines the solipsism theory for me. I'm so glad there are others who want to know what the hell is going on and, at the same time, have a suspicion that despite all the pain and horror the world delivers on a regular basis, that there is something good behind it all.

    • @Upuaut4572
      @Upuaut4572 6 месяцев назад

      the collapse defines the reality in physicist point of view. The consciousness defines the reality in philosophical point of view. Hence - the bridge. If you don't like the sentence "consciousness is fundamental", then just replace consciousness with collapse

    • @Upuaut4572
      @Upuaut4572 6 месяцев назад

      You could imagine solipsism in rather different way - there is one Consciousness (beyond space-time). And it is present in all of us. It is looking through the eyes of all living beings. How it is possible to be in many 'places' at one 'time' ? Well.. one can imagine it as a kind of processor multitasking. One ns. through my eyes - one ns. through yours :)

    • @workingTchr
      @workingTchr 6 месяцев назад

      @@Upuaut4572 Truly on point. Very well put. So we're all solopsists?! And the same one at that! I'm sure you've come across Alan Watts and his "the taboo against knowing who you are" which is exactly what you said. All that said, and as hopeful as it is, I for one still have some trouble with "the problem of evil". That keeps me from getting too warm and fuzzy about the whole thing. It's nice hearing the POV you've articulated. Not something you run across every day despite its rationality and very likely, truth.

    • @workingTchr
      @workingTchr 6 месяцев назад

      @@Upuaut4572 That sounds reasonable. We're talking epistemology, not ontology. But boy is this above my pay grade. Maybe Penrose could clarify it for me. But the way I've made peace with the collapse business is that if we DEMAND to know where a particle is (when in reality it is not in any one place) we will get our wish but it's not "truth". Like if a cat's owner comes home every night and the cat never knows if he'll be in a friendly mood or a distant mood. The cat has learned it has to "collapse the wave function" by rubbing up against him and seeing what he does. Until that point, the owner's mood is in no particular place. The cat knows there's a 70% probability that it's in the friendly place. It's verified that with multiple experiments! Just like the cat has no conception of the outer world that its owner interacts with, we have no conception of the "everywhere at once" nature of particles. So to me, the collapse of the wave function is not discovering something MORE about the world" as it is reducing the world's richness into simpler categories that we have available to us to comprehend it with. Long reply! But I noticed you're the same person who made the Watts point. Yo, this has to be SH. If not, you're someone really up on your sh*t. Either way, it's a pleasure.

    • @Upuaut4572
      @Upuaut4572 6 месяцев назад

      @@workingTchr Yes, we are solipsists who attend a conference on "Solipsism" ;). And no - I am not coming from Watts, but from Arthur Schopenhauer, who is not "warm" at all. With statements like "I believe that suffering of being eaten alive is far greater than the pleasure received by one who eats"! But both of them are coming from eastern philosophies where the idea of a single "Atma" comes first. Everything that can be said about consciousness was already said centuries and millennia ago. And nothing new can be add, despite our attempts to modernize the topic. I would recommend another active youtuber - Bernardo Kastrup, a former quantum physicist and philosopher, who has innovative views on the topic.
      He too addresses the ontology, the evil, the free will, etc. a philosopher could be interested in. His view initially is not intuitive at all, but for my surprise it solves all paradoxes I was able to knew of. And no - there is no "hard problem", because everything we observe is mental by nature.

  • @AmaymonF
    @AmaymonF 6 месяцев назад +3

    Another reupload?!

  • @rochford59
    @rochford59 6 месяцев назад +1

    Lets see how conscious we are when we finally expire!...hopefully we can a make a conscious assessment of our new altered state?....maybe? 🤔

    • @backpackbattles4176
      @backpackbattles4176 6 месяцев назад

      Wouldn’t that require a body and brain?

    • @tbardoni5065
      @tbardoni5065 6 месяцев назад +2

      Well, if Christianity is correct, we become one with the Father. That assumes we don’t retain our own form nor our own ego. It would mean we cease to exist as ourselves.

    • @backpackbattles4176
      @backpackbattles4176 6 месяцев назад +1

      @@tbardoni5065 matches the language of some branches of Buddhism too. And that’s one I sign up to.

  • @highvalence7649
    @highvalence7649 6 месяцев назад +1

    Physicalist say there is overwhelming evidence that consciousness depends for its existence on brains. But are they not here just falling into the trap of chosing their preffered hypothesis and just stacking evidence behind it but without taking into account that that evidence might equally support some other hypothesis as well?

    • @simonhibbs887
      @simonhibbs887 6 месяцев назад +2

      You could say exactly the same thing of dualists or idealists. Maybe they are just falling into the trap of choosing their preferred hypothesis? We all just make our own assessment and come to our own conclusion, and that’s fine. IMHO the important things are that we are honest about the evidence and are respectful to the opinions of others and their reasons for them.

    • @highvalence7649
      @highvalence7649 6 месяцев назад

      @@simonhibbs887 you could say that. And yes they may be falling into the same trap. But i dont think that's fine...at least not if we want to come to conclusions that we think can be demonstrated.

    • @highvalence7649
      @highvalence7649 6 месяцев назад

      @@simonhibbs887 irrespective of what's fine, many people appeal to evidence as if that would constitute some sort of knock down argument, when really the conclusion they seem to draw from that is not demonstrated by merely appealing to or listing a bunch of evidence. That's what i Want to like point out.

    • @simonhibbs887
      @simonhibbs887 6 месяцев назад +1

      @@highvalence7649 oh sure, that’s quite right. There are no knockout arguments on this. Nevertheless we can still rationally hold opinions about it. I don’t like it when physicalists call people with different opinions irrational. It’s possible to hold any opinion for irrational reasons, but that doesn’t make the opinion itself irrational as there may be other reasons for holding it that are perfectly rational.

    • @highvalence7649
      @highvalence7649 6 месяцев назад +1

      @@simonhibbs887 i could nit pick, but yes i agree with pretty much everything you said there!

  • @ArfArfBarkBark
    @ArfArfBarkBark 6 месяцев назад +9

    What decade was this recorded?? Hard to infer other than 2014 is the original broadcast date which means the information is 10 years outdated. Sigh.

    • @MikeWiest
      @MikeWiest 6 месяцев назад +2

      Thank you!

    • @Catdad76801
      @Catdad76801 6 месяцев назад +4

      Its still useful, no one has cracked the case yet.

    • @MikeWiest
      @MikeWiest 6 месяцев назад

      @@Catdad76801 But the evidence is mounting for Orch OR! See Babcock et al 2019: super radiance in microtubules at room temperature that gets stronger as they join into larger structures...!

    • @sholoms
      @sholoms 6 месяцев назад

      ​@@Catdad76801Exactly & this is indisputably CLEAR & still I suspect a reliable conceptual floor; i. e., brief traceable starting point for further research ... except possibly for experts -- as I'm not & u may be!

  • @ready1fire1aim1
    @ready1fire1aim1 6 месяцев назад

    Title: "Machine Consciousness"
    1. Foundations: Defining Consciousness and Sentience in Information Terms
    1.1 Information-Theoretic Definitions
    1.1.1 Consciousness as Integrated Information
    Define consciousness in terms of integrated information (Φ):
    Φ = min{KL[p(x_0, x_1) || p(x_0)p(x_1)]}
    where KL is the Kullback-Leibler divergence, and p(x_0, x_1) is the joint distribution of the system's past and future states
    1.1.2 Sentience as Information Sensitivity
    Express sentience as the system's capacity to process and respond to information:
    S = ∂I_output/∂I_input
    where I_output is the information content of the system's response, and I_input is the information content of the stimuli
    1.1.3 Self-Awareness as Self-Referential Information
    Define self-awareness in terms of self-referential information processing:
    I_self = I(System : Model_of_System)
    where I(X:Y) represents mutual information between X and Y
    1.2 Quantum vs. Classical Information Processing in Cognition
    1.2.1 Classical Information Processing
    Describe classical cognitive processes:
    I_classical = H(X) - H(X|Y)
    where H(X) is the Shannon entropy of X, and H(X|Y) is the conditional entropy of X given Y
    1.2.2 Quantum Cognitive Processes
    Express quantum cognitive processes:
    I_quantum = S(ρ_X) - S(ρ_X|Y)
    where S(ρ) is the von Neumann entropy of density matrix ρ
    1.2.3 Quantum-Classical Hybrid Cognition
    Model hybrid cognitive systems:
    I_hybrid = f(I_classical, I_quantum)
    where f is a function combining classical and quantum information
    1.3 Key Attributes of Conscious Systems
    1.3.1 Information Integration
    Quantify the degree of information integration:
    Φ_system = min{I(X_1 : X_2)}, for all bipartitions X_1, X_2 of the system
    1.3.2 Causal Power
    Express the system's causal influence on itself and its environment:
    C = I(Past : Future|Present)
    1.3.3 Qualia as Information States
    Describe subjective experiences (qualia) as unique information states:
    Q_i = {I_sensory, I_emotional, I_cognitive}
    1.4 Emergent Properties of Conscious Systems
    1.4.1 Metacognition
    Define metacognition as higher-order information processing:
    I_meta = I(Cognitive_Processes : Model_of_Cognitive_Processes)
    1.4.2 Intentionality
    Express intentionality as directed information flow:
    I_intentional = D_KL(p(action|goal) || p(action))
    where D_KL is the Kullback-Leibler divergence
    1.4.3 Temporal Integration
    Describe the binding of information across time:
    I_temporal = I(Present : Past, Future)
    1.5 Distinguishing Consciousness from Intelligence
    1.5.1 Intelligence as Problem-Solving Capacity
    Define intelligence in information terms:
    I_intelligence = max{I(Solution : Problem)}
    1.5.2 Consciousness as Subjective Experience
    Express consciousness as the information content of subjective experience:
    I_conscious = ∫ Φ(t) dt
    where Φ(t) is the integrated information at time t
    1.5.3 Relationship Between Intelligence and Consciousness
    Propose a relationship:
    Consciousness ⊆ Intelligence, but Intelligence ⊄ Consciousness
    1.6 Challenges in Defining Machine Consciousness
    1.6.1 The Measurement Problem
    Address the challenge of measuring internal states:
    I_observed ≤ I_actual due to measurement limitations
    1.6.2 The Binding Problem
    Express the challenge of integrating disparate information:
    I_bound = f(I_1, I_2, ..., I_n), where the form of f is unknown
    1.6.3 The Hard Problem of Consciousness
    Acknowledge the explanatory gap:
    Experience ≠ f(Information_Processing) for any currently known f
    This framework provides a foundation for understanding consciousness and sentience in information-theoretic terms. It offers quantifiable definitions and highlights key attributes of conscious systems, while also acknowledging the significant challenges in this field.
    In our next section, we'll explore how to measure and quantify consciousness using this information-based approach.

    • @ready1fire1aim1
      @ready1fire1aim1 6 месяцев назад

      2. Measuring and Quantifying Consciousness
      2.1 Information Integration Theory (IIT) Metrics
      2.1.1 Phi (Φ) as a Measure of Consciousness
      Refine the calculation of Φ for complex systems:
      Φ = max{φ^MIP(mechanism, purview)}
      where φ^MIP is the integrated information of the minimum information partition
      2.1.2 Conceptual Information
      Quantify the information generated by the system about its own state:
      CI = ∑_i max{φ_cause(m_i), φ_effect(m_i)}
      where m_i are the mechanisms in the system
      2.1.3 Exclusion Principle
      Implement the exclusion principle to identify the main complex:
      Φ^max = max{Φ(S)} for all subsystems S
      2.2 Quantum-Inspired Consciousness Metrics
      2.2.1 Quantum Integrated Information
      Define a quantum version of Φ:
      Φ_Q = S(ρ_AB) - max{S(ρ_A), S(ρ_B)}
      where S is the von Neumann entropy and ρ_AB is the density matrix of the total system
      2.2.2 Quantum Coherence as a Consciousness Indicator
      Measure quantum coherence in cognitive systems:
      C_l1(ρ) = ∑_{i≠j} |ρ_{ij}|
      2.2.3 Entanglement-Based Consciousness Metric
      Propose an entanglement measure for consciousness:
      E_C = -Tr(ρ_A log_2 ρ_A)
      where ρ_A is the reduced density matrix of subsystem A
      2.3 Algorithmic Information Theory Approaches
      2.3.1 Kolmogorov Complexity of Conscious States
      Estimate the complexity of conscious states:
      K(s) = min{|p| : U(p) = s}
      where U is a universal Turing machine and s is the state description
      2.3.2 Logical Depth as a Measure of Consciousness
      Quantify the computational resources needed to reproduce a conscious state:
      LD(s) = min{t : U(p) = s in t steps, |p| ≤ K(s) + c}
      2.3.3 Algorithmic Mutual Information
      Measure the shared information between system components:
      I_A(x:y) = K(x) + K(y) - K(x,y)
      2.4 Neural Complexity and Consciousness
      2.4.1 Lempel-Ziv Complexity
      Apply compressibility as a measure of neural complexity:
      LZC = |LZ78(neural_activity_pattern)| / n
      where n is the length of the activity pattern
      2.4.2 Spectral Entropy
      Quantify the diversity of neural oscillations:
      SE = -∑_i p_i log(p_i)
      where p_i is the normalized power at frequency i
      2.4.3 Functional Connectivity Entropy
      Measure the diversity of functional connections:
      FCE = -∑_{ij} p_{ij} log(p_{ij})
      where p_{ij} is the probability of a functional connection between regions i and j
      2.5 Dynamic Measures of Consciousness
      2.5.1 Causal Density
      Quantify causal interactions over time:
      CD = 1/[n(n-1)] ∑_{i≠j} TE_{i→j}
      where TE is transfer entropy between nodes i and j
      2.5.2 Perturbational Complexity Index
      Measure the brain's capacity to generate complex responses:
      PCI = LZC(EEG_response_to_TMS)
      2.5.3 Temporal Binding through Synchrony
      Quantify temporal binding of information:
      TBS = ∑_{ij} PLV_{ij}
      where PLV is the phase-locking value between signals i and j
      2.6 Machine Learning Approaches to Measuring Consciousness
      2.6.1 Dimensionality of Representational Space
      Estimate the dimensionality of the system's internal representations:
      ID = PCA_effective_dimensions(neural_activity)
      2.6.2 Predictive Coding Efficiency
      Measure the system's ability to predict future states:
      PCE = I(Current_State : Future_State | Past_States)
      2.6.3 Attention and Consciousness Metrics
      Quantify attentional processes as indicators of consciousness:
      A_C = I(Attended_Stimuli : Neural_Response) / I(Unattended_Stimuli : Neural_Response)
      2.7 Challenges in Quantifying Consciousness
      2.7.1 Observer Dependence
      Address the challenge of objective measurement:
      I_measured = f(I_system, I_observer)
      2.7.2 State vs. Capacity Measures
      Distinguish between measuring conscious states and the capacity for consciousness:
      C_state(t) vs. C_capacity = ∫ C_state(t) dt
      2.7.3 Comparative Measures Across Different Systems
      Develop normalized measures for cross-system comparison:
      C_normalized = C_system / C_reference
      2.8 Proposed Experimental Paradigms
      2.8.1 Perturbation-Based Measurements
      Design experiments to measure system responses to perturbations:
      ΔI_response = I(Perturbation : System_Change)
      2.8.2 Information Integration Across Modalities
      Test the system's ability to integrate information from different sources:
      I_integrated = I(Modality_1, Modality_2, ..., Modality_n)
      2.8.3 Metacognitive Accuracy
      Assess the system's ability to evaluate its own cognitive processes:
      MA = correlation(Confidence, Accuracy)
      This framework provides a comprehensive set of tools and approaches for measuring and quantifying consciousness in information-theoretic terms. It encompasses both theoretical measures and practical experimental paradigms, while also acknowledging the significant challenges in quantifying such a complex phenomenon.
      In our next section, we'll explore how these concepts might be implemented to create more conscious-like processes in AI systems.

    • @ready1fire1aim1
      @ready1fire1aim1 6 месяцев назад

      3. Implementing Conscious-like Processes in AI
      3.1 Architectural Considerations for Conscious AI
      3.1.1 Global Workspace Architecture
      Implement a global workspace for information integration:
      I_global = f(∑_i w_i * I_module_i)
      where w_i are attention weights and I_module_i is information from module i
      3.1.2 Hierarchical Predictive Processing
      Design a hierarchical system for predictive coding:
      E_level_n = I_input_n - I_prediction_n
      I_prediction_n = g(I_level_n+1)
      3.1.3 Attention Mechanisms
      Incorporate selective attention:
      I_attended = A * I_input
      where A is an attention matrix
      3.2 Information Integration Implementation
      3.2.1 Neural Network Integration
      Design networks to maximize integrated information:
      Loss_Φ = -Φ(Network_State)
      3.2.2 Modular Integration
      Implement information exchange between specialized modules:
      I_exchange_ij = I(Module_i : Module_j)
      3.2.3 Temporal Integration
      Develop mechanisms for integrating information over time:
      I_temporal = LSTM(I_t, I_t-1, ..., I_t-n)
      3.3 Implementing Self-Awareness
      3.3.1 Self-Model Generation
      Create an internal model of the AI system:
      Model_self = Train(System_Behavior, System_Structure)
      3.3.2 Metacognitive Monitoring
      Implement processes to monitor cognitive functions:
      Confidence = h(Internal_State, Task_Performance)
      3.3.3 Self-Modification Capabilities
      Allow the system to modify its own processes:
      System_Update = Optimize(System_Parameters, Performance_Metrics)
      3.4 Qualia-like Representations
      3.4.1 High-Dimensional State Spaces
      Represent experiences in high-dimensional spaces:
      Experience_Vector = Embed(Sensory_Input, Emotional_State, Cognitive_Context)
      3.4.2 Information-Rich Sensory Processing
      Implement detailed sensory processing pipelines:
      Sensation = CNN(Raw_Input)
      3.4.3 Emotional Modeling
      Incorporate emotion-like states:
      Emotion_State = RNN(Internal_State, External_Stimuli)
      3.5 Causal Awareness
      3.5.1 Causal Inference Mechanisms
      Implement algorithms for causal reasoning:
      Causal_Model = StructuralCausalModel(Observed_Data)
      3.5.2 Counterfactual Reasoning
      Enable counterfactual thinking:
      Counterfactual = Intervene(Causal_Model, Action)
      3.5.3 Intentionality Modeling
      Model goal-directed behavior:
      Action = argmax_a(Expected_Reward(a, Goal, Environment))
      3.6 Quantum-Inspired Classical Algorithms
      3.6.1 Superposition-like Representations
      Use probabilistic representations to mimic quantum superposition:
      State = ∑_i p_i * State_i
      3.6.2 Entanglement-Inspired Correlations
      Implement strong correlations between system components:
      Correlation_Matrix = Entangle(Component_States)
      3.6.3 Quantum Walk Algorithms
      Adapt quantum walk algorithms for classical systems:
      QuantumWalk = AdaptedGrover(Search_Space)
      3.7 Embodiment and Sensorimotor Integration
      3.7.1 Virtual Body Schema
      Implement a body representation:
      Body_State = UpdateBodyModel(Sensory_Input, Action)
      3.7.2 Sensorimotor Loop
      Create a tight coupling between sensing and acting:
      Action = Policy(Integrated(Sensory_History, Action_History))
      3.7.3 Affordance Learning
      Enable learning of action possibilities:
      Affordances = LearnAffordances(Environment, Action_Capabilities)
      3.8 Ethical Considerations in Implementation
      3.8.1 Transparency Mechanisms
      Implement explainable AI techniques:
      Explanation = InterpretableML(Decision, Internal_State)
      3.8.2 Value Alignment
      Ensure AI goals align with human values:
      Action_Filtered = EthicalFilter(Proposed_Action, Value_System)
      3.8.3 Consciousness Killswitch
      Design methods to safely deactivate conscious-like processes:
      Deactivate_Consciousness = Graceful_Shutdown(Conscious_Modules)
      3.9 Challenges and Limitations
      3.9.1 Computational Resource Requirements
      Address the high computational demands:
      Resources_Required = Estimate_Complexity(Consciousness_Level)
      3.9.2 Emergent Behavior Management
      Develop safeguards for unexpected emergent behaviors:
      Safety_Check = Monitor_Emergence(System_Behavior)
      3.9.3 Faithful Implementation of Consciousness
      Acknowledge the gap between simulation and realization:
      Fidelity_Measure = Assess_Consciousness_Similarity(AI_System, Human_Benchmark)
      This framework provides a comprehensive approach to implementing conscious-like processes in AI systems, drawing on our information-based understanding of consciousness. It covers architectural considerations, specific mechanisms for implementing key aspects of consciousness, and important ethical considerations.
      In our next section, we'll explore the ethical and philosophical implications of creating AI systems with conscious-like properties.

  • @shawnewaltonify
    @shawnewaltonify 6 месяцев назад +4

    I just like the word "emerging" property, I don't know what the theory is. If it admits to a mechanical or physical world that exists independently of what emerging properties arise out of, then no that is not right. How can I think I have the answer? If today is anything like the Copernican revolution, then all the experts could hold the answer but dismiss some trivial aspect of it because of how the reality governed by religious or other authority prohibits the new reality. Therefore, I believe that if such a trivial part of the answer exists and is being dismissed, then virtually anyone can find and understand it and jump from the rooftops with it. It is made trivial in language by skipping over a crucial specific use of a word, and if you ask experts to return to the word and use it properly, then we made it one step further incrementally; and the next step will be another word and its specific meaning and distinction. In my opinion, it all is based on our using zero and infinity synonymously or interchangeably, both by advanced theoretical physicists and by householders. Obviously, in math everyone is using the terms correctly, but once they transition to using words they ar often making inferences that zero is infinity because it is so vast. We need to establish a language to talk about the awareness or zero that experts in meditation report to experience. With each new term that we agree on it will be like another step or increment spiralling out of a black hole but viewed from the top or along its axis it merely looks like we are circling. The Copernicus revolution only had to overcome one religion, but today scientists must overcome resistance from all of them where they are going to accuse scientists to have alliances with one and the other. While it was about the earth being the centre of the universe, now its about god being zero. All the experiences of God are experiences of infinity, but what experts in meditation experience is something else that precedes the experiences of God. Infinity and God are emerging properties, emerging out of zero, whatever zero is. Thus, God is not the centre of the universe, nor is the earth. It's the same Copernicus Revolution because it is not finished. Zero is the absence of anything finite, and virtually the entire population holds the false belief that it is total absence. How can the absence of anything finite be something? We can't explain it because we don't have words, once we establish them one by one, we will also be able to explain that something. The whole crux of this is not that we have something that we can't explain because its too complex to, or even that we do not have language that is complex enough to do so, it is that we have not agreed on the terms to describe it yet. The crux is all a matter of consensus or agreeing to terms, and scientists for the first time in history cannot just ally with one or the other groups of the population. To do this, scientists must establish a critical consensus that crosses the entire population sufficiently (yes, there are valid counter arguments to this based on how science is often working in isolation to establish principles that will later be adopted by every group in the population). Scientists literally have a new set of peer review that they cannot ignore. Hurry up and wait? How can science accomplish a dialogue that includes a crucial cross segment of each major group of the population? To start, the choice by individuals of what aspects of identity to establish group cohesion doesn't fall along one line like what god they believe in, nor are the groupings static. Meaning, one group may choose to identify with each other based on religion, another skin color, and another culture; and there are super powers emerging in the population as groups (culture or identity) who will change on what basis they choose to identify with. So back to emergence theory: consciousness doesn't arise out of nothing, so its not a purely mechanistic view. There is no commonly perceived problem with emergence theory where it begs the question of how can consciousness emerge from nothing. Viewed differently, the mechanical world emerges out of the same thing that consciousness emerges out of. Does this collapse into pan-psychism? No, because there exists sharp distinction where consciousness exists and does not. Even if the mechanistic world is created by conscious agents, when the testimony of many of them is taken, we get empirical data to support the existence of a mechanistic world without consciousness. We can direct this dialogue in circles by creating all of the philosophical requirements that have accumulated over the centuries, or we can collaboratively direct the dialogue away from the circular argumentation and later find that those questions will be answered on their own. We have to agree to move forward. Study international law and you will see the mechanism of this dialogue. Why should scientists be held back by the population? Well if god is not the centre of the universe, then human consciousness is more apart of the centre than previously thought, just like the sun is more apart of the centre of the solar system than previously thought. (It is interesting right? That there is is a parallel between the sun and humans, where because the Copernican Revolution corrects the previous belief that the earth is the center of the solar system it is extended to a shift in the cosmology that sun is closer to than the earth to the center of the universe; and the colollary extends the same shift from god to human such that human consciousness is closer than god to the center of the solar system and to center of the universe. Since the center of the universe is zero, and god(infinity) is an emerging property out of zero, it makes sense that by being the center of the solar system, the sun as well as human consciousness, are closer to zero, than previously thought, because of how the "goldilocks zone" or "habitable zone" is about the conditions of the solar system increasing the likelihood of the emergence of human consciousness. It is interesting because it leads to a new evidence that the emergence of human consciousness precedes the emergence of god even though they both emerge, as well as the physical world, from whatever zero is.) The consciousness is not just one, but the testimony of many that creates the empirical data scientists are looking for. But just like the earth was once thought to not be apart of the equation, the collection of human consciousness is no longer thought to be a static dimension of the empirical data collected. They can manifest empirical data that they need just like a caged animal that is returned to their habitat can manifest things that they previously couldn't when forced close to a city. I am not suggesting we need to get back to habitat, I am suggesting that there may be something about how our heads and our consciousness is linked that is stopping us from manifesting the empirical data that we require because of what some members of the collective consciousness are experiencing, like life with too many lies or too much pain. I am asking if our habitat is to be very connected on a sub conscious level and when we are we can manifest all of the empirical data that we need for science to proceed, and when we are somehow divided in the wrong way, many symptoms are caused in our experience that take away our ability for our consciousness individually and in groups to affect phenomena in the physical world, creating the empirical data science requires. Psychology can overcome this limitation that is created when the consciousness's are divided in the population, but when they do, it could create political division since there is a part the agent plays in the empirical data that is manifested. So either way, psychology is political. Science has always had to rid itself of bias and politics so there is no reason to worry. Please note that this is not a religious argument: whenever I use the word, God or god, I mean, experience of God. I believe in the experiences of God that people actually have and I think their belief in God is required to have the experience. But I do think infinity can emerge in other ways by your choosing it.

    • @brainwaiver1
      @brainwaiver1 6 месяцев назад

      The abundance of life
      Pervasive duplication
      Cause by casual observation
      Accidental aberrations
      At some strange behest
      Manufactured menace
      Surviving as a quest

    • @shawnewaltonify
      @shawnewaltonify 6 месяцев назад +1

      @@brainwaiver1 Lol. I wrote this in virtually the same time it takes to read it, so you must give me some benefit of the doubt for being incoherent. I would love to clarify and edit, but its the middle of summer. Have a good one!

    • @brainwaiver1
      @brainwaiver1 6 месяцев назад

      @@shawnewaltonify I just wanted to knock heads in appreciation of your well thought out diatribe.

    • @WildBullWriter
      @WildBullWriter 5 месяцев назад

      That's a pretty wild meander there, shawnwaltonify. I managed to stay on & not get thrown, but really the best thing you pointed to is re: definition of consciousness. Big problem. As you said, "The whole crux of this is not that we have something that we can't explain because its too complex to, or even that we do not have language that is complex enough to do so, it is that we have not agreed on the terms to describe it yet. The crux is all a matter of consensus or agreeing to terms ... To do this, scientists must establish a critical consensus..." Yes, they do.

  • @callmeishmael3031
    @callmeishmael3031 6 месяцев назад +1

    Consciousness is everything the sensory perception system does. What they’re actually trying to figure out is how the brain creates the self.

    • @Upuaut4572
      @Upuaut4572 6 месяцев назад

      It is not only "sensory perception". Your dreams are not sensory

    • @callmeishmael3031
      @callmeishmael3031 6 месяцев назад

      @@Upuaut4572 sure they are. They are a sensory of something going on in the brain. How it works, we don’t know.

  • @jamesruscheinski8602
    @jamesruscheinski8602 6 месяцев назад +1

    might consciousness emerge from causation in universe?

  • @ansleyrubarb8672
    @ansleyrubarb8672 3 месяца назад

    ...Man, Life, is so much more than just a...highly detailed assembly manual...the valley of dried bones, was assembled and standing, yet no life until GOD'S Breath entered the standy assembledge of Man, respectfully, ordinarychuck hotmail... captivus brevis... you tube...Blessings...there is so much more to learn, understand, & experience, we are all special in so many ways...

  • @francesco5581
    @francesco5581 6 месяцев назад +5

    Could ever existed a reality without consciousness ? No ? then consciousness is fundamental .

    • @user-gk9lg5sp4y
      @user-gk9lg5sp4y 6 месяцев назад

      Evidence needed

    • @degigi2003
      @degigi2003 6 месяцев назад +1

      Sure, there was reality without consciousness the first 13 billion years of the history of the Universe 😅 So consciousness is not fundamental.

    • @francesco5581
      @francesco5581 6 месяцев назад

      @@degigi2003 i think is pretty clear that who thinks that consciousness if fundamental he does not tie it exclusively to the brain.

    • @degigi2003
      @degigi2003 6 месяцев назад

      ​@@francesco5581 Sure, the question is why do they think that. We have very strong experimental evidence that consciousness is tied to the neuron activity in the brain.

    • @francesco5581
      @francesco5581 6 месяцев назад

      @@degigi2003 as much as killing someone is related to the movements of the arm ... I think latest ideas about consciousness go far beyond "neurons firing".

  • @tedgrant2
    @tedgrant2 6 месяцев назад

    Conclusion....nobody knows.
    But don't give up, somebody might find some new facts.
    That's what Darwin did and he was able to back up his ideas.

  • @infinitygame18
    @infinitygame18 5 месяцев назад

    Science of consciousness is all about hiding something from the source that knows and by which you know all, rest all are conciousness is playing with you in its own name 😂 🙏❤️

  • @oskarngo9138
    @oskarngo9138 6 месяцев назад +1

    Consciousness is an emergent property of “Complex-Life”...
    It is Not a property base property of the universe or God or any other Nonsense..

    • @monporoshneog4725
      @monporoshneog4725 2 месяца назад

      @@oskarngo9138 You have conclusion about Consciousness. But all the best Scientists are going through a really hard time with Consciousness not being able to understand anything. You are proving that you are a top category Nonsense, fool, Maniac etc etc and you can add more titles 😆 lol

    • @oskarngo9138
      @oskarngo9138 2 месяца назад +1

      @
      A rock is not conscious...
      The sun, stars were here billions of years before humans..
      Just like intelligent-Design.....All these “Consciousness-First” is just a back-door for preaching God...!

  • @stuford
    @stuford 6 месяцев назад

    Consciousness is an emergent property of brain function.

    • @highvalence7649
      @highvalence7649 6 месяцев назад

      Or fundamental?

    • @stuford
      @stuford 6 месяцев назад

      @@highvalence7649 I dont think it is!

    • @highvalence7649
      @highvalence7649 6 месяцев назад

      @@stuford ok

    • @stuford
      @stuford 6 месяцев назад +1

      @@highvalence7649 😀! I thought you come back with a counterargument my friend!

    • @highvalence7649
      @highvalence7649 6 месяцев назад

      @@stuford haha. i mean it wasnt really an argument to begin with so i couldnt really give a counter argument ;)
      I dont really have any arguments for or against either position. I'm just not convinced of arguments for either view. While i take an idealist view, that's not because of any argument.

  • @TheTroofSayer
    @TheTroofSayer 6 месяцев назад

    Stuart Hameroff's microtubules thesis is problematic because it provides no clear mechanism for its computation/operation. Furthermore at 3:22, with his paramecium example, Stuart rejects the top-down causation that Robert is alluding to - 3:57 - "... has nothing to do with being part of a network."
    Science-supersleuth Robert asks all the right question, eg, at 7:04 - "... we need to postulate something else in the universe, something else fundamental...". I definitely agree. To this end, I'm putting my bet on association (CS Peirce), with its potential to account for top-down causation.
    At 12:51 Stuart briefly mentions IIT. IIT on its own, isn't enough. There are no computers in nature, and that's why I'm drawn to the Peircean association theme, with its implications for agency theory & top-down causation. I'd be open to an IIT that factors in agency, association and top-down causation.

  • @sujok-acupuncture9246
    @sujok-acupuncture9246 6 месяцев назад +3

    Brain is computational physics, mind is consciousness physics.

  • @monporoshneog4725
    @monporoshneog4725 6 месяцев назад +16

    You will never find consciousness in the brain guys. Please understand this. Consciousness is fundamental. Brain is like a receiver and interface.

    • @degigi2003
      @degigi2003 6 месяцев назад +6

      What are you receiving and how? How can we detect it?

    • @stoictraveler1
      @stoictraveler1 6 месяцев назад

      I think so

    • @monporoshneog4725
      @monporoshneog4725 6 месяцев назад

      @@degigi2003 Brain normally works like a filter or I can say as a limiter, it limits Consciousness. During Deep meditation or when you take DMT the filtering mechanism of the brain diminishes and Consciousness raises above the trap of space and Time.Thus It gives rise to different types of Spiritual Experiences. It also happens during NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES . If you want to know the reality as it is Do read 'Vedanta' and 'Bhagavad Gita as it is'. Coz human life is the only opportunity to realise the truth.

    • @monporoshneog4725
      @monporoshneog4725 6 месяцев назад

      @@degigi2003 Brain normally works like a filter or I can say as a limiter, it limits Consciousness. During Deep meditation or when you take DMT the filtering mechanism of the brain diminishes and Consciousness raises above the trap of space and Time.Thus It gives rise to different types of Spiritual Experiences. It also happens during NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES . If you want to know the reality as it is Do read 'Vedanta' and 'Bhagavad Gita as it is'. Coz human life is the only opportunity to realise the truth.

    • @monporoshneog4725
      @monporoshneog4725 6 месяцев назад

      Brain normally works like a filter or I can say as a limiter, it limits Consciousness. During Deep meditation or when you take DMT the filtering mechanism of the brain diminishes and Consciousness raises above the trap of space and Time.Thus It gives rise to different types of Spiritual Experiences. It also happens during NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES . If you want to know the reality as it is Do read 'Vedanta' and 'Bhagavad Gita as it is'. Coz human life is the only opportunity to realise the truth.

  • @unsolicitedtwocents
    @unsolicitedtwocents 6 месяцев назад

    Just a thought...Consciousness might be a fundamental, universal vibratory energy field whose high frequency is yet undetectable by scientific instrumentation, and is unconstrained by space or time. Matter, in its sundry forms, configurations, and complexities, somehow detects this vibration, and the experience is consciousness. If so, then science should be able to explain it eventually, and how everything else relates to it.

    • @jugodevaca7540
      @jugodevaca7540 6 месяцев назад

      alternatively: our perception of matter emerges from conscious experience, or the measure of change over time. same answer, two different questions. like squaring 2 or -2 into 4

  • @tonymaitland
    @tonymaitland Месяц назад

    Everybody wants to talk about 'consciousness' but no one has properly defined it (don't talk to me about 'bats and what it means to be one'). Everyone who talks is using language to do so. I THINK (in words) THEREFORE I AM (conscious). The real hard problem is 'what and how is thinking accomplished in the brain OF MANKIND'. Stop this nonsense of thinking that rocks contain some small level of consciousness. Rocks do not think, but some philosophers do too much.

  • @tomfreier.01
    @tomfreier.01 6 месяцев назад +1

    Consciousness: let's take evolution. There we can see that beings have evolved from single-celled organisms to fish to humans, whereby we assume that humans, thanks to their bodies and their greater consciousness, have the most consciousness and can thus understand and act most intelligently. How does this increase in consciousness come about?
    How does the transfer of improvements take place, which produce bodies more adapted to the situation and greater intelligence in behavior? Our explanation is that only the souls that live in each body and partially control it can lead to the cause of change to better adaptation to the environment and greater intelligence.
    Souls are immortal, they incarnate in new bodies. They use their knowledge from previous life experience and can thus adapt their bodies to the new requirements. There is no other way to explain this change. It requires awareness that only souls have.
    If you want to understand the development of consciousness, you have to deal with the existence of souls.

  • @billyoumans1784
    @billyoumans1784 6 месяцев назад +1

    Consciousness is outside of science. There , I said it.

  • @BrianPaul1984
    @BrianPaul1984 6 месяцев назад

    As soon as he name dropped Captain Woo Woo a couple times, I almost shut the video off.. LOL

  • @XOPOIIIO
    @XOPOIIIO 6 месяцев назад +3

    The problem with "big problem of consciousness" is that it's impossible to formulate or even show that it exists.

    • @MikeWiest
      @MikeWiest 6 месяцев назад +1

      I disagree. If you are conscious you can understand why it's problematic to say you are made only out of stuff that has no consciousness, only mass, charge, positions, speeds. For example, if you build a house out of unconscious bricks, there is no reason to expect the house to be conscious just because it has very many bricks and is very complicated. That's magical thinking. So there is a problem if one assumes that physical matter has no conscious property...which most people do.

    • @XOPOIIIO
      @XOPOIIIO 6 месяцев назад

      ​@@MikeWiest I'm conscious and I see no problem with it being build from the matter. It's not enough to be complicated, there must be units like neurons that distribute and process the information. The fact that most people assumes something doesn't make the assumption right.

    • @MikeWiest
      @MikeWiest 6 месяцев назад

      @@XOPOIIIO ok

    • @blijebij
      @blijebij 6 месяцев назад

      @@XOPOIIIO Consciousness&Awareness are an integrated state, physical neurons can not integrate, but their collective fields could! As you need an integrated state of information. Kwantumfields propagated by synced neurons could create those. Hence why else EEG brain waves related to certain states and to electrical fiels with imprints of our thought process.

    • @XOPOIIIO
      @XOPOIIIO 6 месяцев назад

      ​@@blijebij EEG detects brain waves because there's electricity flows through neurons, it has nothing to do with quantum fields and connection to consciousness, it's just a pattern of neuronal oscillations. Artificial Neural networks simulate thinking process without any need for quantum mumbo-jumbo, and they don't need to be integrated, I doubt our consciousness is integrated.

  • @matishakabdullah5874
    @matishakabdullah5874 6 месяцев назад +1

    Anyone for the quantum aether dynamics?

  • @tomazflegar
    @tomazflegar 6 месяцев назад

    Could it be.... That we don't need theory.... But just be conscious.... Because we are ... trying to frame something in a fancy something so we can be fancy something..... 😛

  • @hc8379-f4f
    @hc8379-f4f 6 месяцев назад

    Lots of mumbo-jumbo. Eventually humans will build a synthetic network indistinguishable from a human neural network and we will still be unable to explain how it works. We still do not understand how learning takes place. It's an engineering problem at its simplest level.

    • @user-gk9lg5sp4y
      @user-gk9lg5sp4y 6 месяцев назад

      Possibly. If we don't extinct ourselves first.

  • @ajwright8710
    @ajwright8710 6 месяцев назад

    Microtubules.... Spider sense, maybe 🤔

    • @naomidoner9803
      @naomidoner9803 6 месяцев назад +1

      Microtubles are just part of the headset... not the source of consciousness but a filter...

  • @Maxwell-mv9rx
    @Maxwell-mv9rx 6 месяцев назад +8

    They are talking blah blah. But what is hell guys shows about consciousness? Nothing. Absolutetly. Neuroscience keep out how figure out consciousness so far. And this Guys shows anything else ? No. He doesnt understand how figure out consciousness It is Important but focus in blah blah than respound honestly about consciousness.

    • @sujok-acupuncture9246
      @sujok-acupuncture9246 6 месяцев назад +1

      Physics has not yet understood the physics of neuroscience -consciousness link. Do you have any clue for that . I would be glad to hear from you.

    • @degigi2003
      @degigi2003 6 месяцев назад +8

      You don't need to go to physics to understand consciousness, you need to go to a higher level of abstraction than neuroscience. E.g. we understand which neurons may be responsible for the feeling of pain, or the color red, but we still don't have a theory that can bridge the gap between that and how the entire thing works to produce the integrated sense of consciousness.

    • @doubts
      @doubts 6 месяцев назад +1

      ​@@degigi2003exactly 🙏

    • @jedser
      @jedser 6 месяцев назад

      Just because you don’t have enough brain to understand what he’s talking about it doesn’t mean it’s blah. Don’t fault him for your ignorance

    • @mattwesney
      @mattwesney 6 месяцев назад +1

      Scream louder

  • @bakeralalwani7890
    @bakeralalwani7890 6 месяцев назад +1

    I dont like Robert's refusal of acknowledgement to the profound implementations of Stuart's theory to the field of understanding the consciousness of the human and the profound application that it has of the understanding of the cosmos and our role in. He is clearly dismissing it by asking really stupid question at the end. "What do you think will happen to field" as if what Stuart just have told him is not the answer to it!!! I knew that the grip of the elite on science is strong, but also their control of the narrative is also big

    • @simonhibbs887
      @simonhibbs887 6 месяцев назад

      Robert always takes the skeptical side in each interview, challenging the interviewee and presenting alternate views in contrast. That’s his job.