I'm not magical-religious at all but a creative writer and steal these ancient pop culture tropes - they are the most long lasting! - so will take the course.
I am taking this and it is an immense value. It is also serious, masterful close reading....big fun. Learning a lot. It helps my work to demystify the production of these cultural materials/literature. It was, after all, just regular folks trying to get the work done, ...even geniuses have to pay their bills.... As a pro marketer and artist - i am always promoting new projects/ideas/works - it's easy to identify with Paul and the very hard work of selling and marketing new ideas.
@@jaynyczak7999 Like Dr Ehrman, she has a gift of taking something thick and making it accessible to the layperson. I think that takes brilliance. What are you talking about?
I also recommend “What Your Pastor Didn’t Tell You” that is hosted by Zach Miller. He interviews a lot of solid scholars around the Bible and Ancient Near East, like James VanderKem, Amar Annus, Mark S. Smith and Gary Rendsburg
The host lets the guests talk. If there's mutual banter, it's relevant to the subject at hand. There's no (out of the closet) atheist game to play like the other channels. It's cool when you're 20, but you tend to grow up and get over it. I just find subjects like these fascinating, and I enjoy listening to the scholars when they make an appearance. Good work.
It's both heartwarming and spiritually uplifting to have a beautiful and very intelligent woman share her knowledge and insights into early Christoanity and Christ Jesus. Thank you Dr. Walsh, and may God bless you with a long and fruitful life.😇
Follow all her vids, got her book, will have to look for papers. Starting the course - have to say for the amount of good, new ideas/information and costs - immense value. I am coming to be BIG fan of younger women classical lit scholars...so really good ones a comin' - and already here. I study all this to be a better creative writer and business storyteller, BTW.
An excellent discussion: Jacob asked some very pertinent questions and Robyn gave clear, detailed answers. Understanding Paul seems more important than ever to understand Christian origins.
Why then did Paul write with a sense of urgency that Jesus's return was imminent? If I were, Paul; and "cash" was motive --- I would've milked that cow with no sense of urgency.
Miami is fortunate to have her. Even though I have read Scripture and studied Paul to a small degree, I find that she raises Paul to quite the man for his time. One of the great scholars and philosophers. Very intelligent and knowledgeable professor. Also easy on the eyes and ears.
I have LOTS of questions which I will save for the class - but what are the literary antecedents of Paul's tropes, motifs, themes. Homer is having a hot minute - again...
Homer is a good start but topics from Romulus and Remus (born by a virgin), Poseidon (god of the sea. calming the sea, walking over water), Dionysos (god of wine - turn water to wine) and Asklepios (god of healing) play a role
"l'm a red sox fan" Somewhere out there in outer space light years away aliens will be wondering how a human female scholar is at the same time a ventilating device for foot insulators that only works on textiles of a specific color.
The reason the divorce thing probably isn’t a divination experience is Paul clearly delineates what “the Lord” says about it from what he thinks about it. I don’t think that makes any sense psychologically. It seems much more likely to me that Paul is simply familiar with a tradition about Jesus on adultery and adds to it than that he is claiming Jesus revealed to him his position and Paul adds to that with his own thoughts on the matter.
Saul of Tarsus spent the first part of his life vigorously opposing and trying to destroy the Jesus Messiah movement; then he had an encounter with the resurrected Jesus, while on the road to Damascus. Saul went from being one of the greatest enemies of the church to being one of its greatest champions and author of about half of the New Testament.
@Truth-Be-Told-USA Saul was not with Jesus during his life, the way the Twelve Apostles and disciples were. And although he was not an eyewitness, the way Peter, Andrew, James, John, and the others were, Paul met the resurrected Jesus. It was that encounter which turned Saul's hard, unbelieving, and cruel heart into the kind and loving person he became after his encounter with Jesus. His encounter with Jesus also saved his soul. We believe Caesar Nero executed Saul and Peter.
@@barrygaynor1025 no proof he met him a story in the book. I can claim I met bigfoot and you are smart enough not to believe me even though I wrote it down (here)
It’s kind of staggering just how under-appreciated Paul actually is. Consider that a good chunk of the New Testament is literally just his words. Much of the rest of it is people writing in his name. And the REST is either inspired by Paul (Mark, and as a result, the other gospels) or arguing against him (James). In a very real sense, the New Testament is Paul’s. Yet most people have no, or essentially no idea who he is! We don’t learn anything about him in schools, at least not in public ones. Yet he’s easily one of the most important people in the history of the world.
Jesus told his disciples to not place new wine into an old vessel meaning his gospels wasn't meant to be a part of Religion. Paul ignored this entirely. Result was the new testament which there isn't anything new and if they're new they're not entirely true
How many of the "modern" ideas in pop culture go back to Paul's digesting of earlier popular tropes, themes and motifs? Of course, promising "life after death" is ALWAYS a winning sales tactic...
@@AlexLightGiver We have fan-fiction accounts we can date not before 150 and we have no idea what actually happened. Stories in koine greek about a dead Aramaeic-speaking preacher which copies from each other and contradict each other and use elements from older papgan stories like copied miracles.
In my opinion, until we stop comparing spiritual things with super-physical things, and take God-is-Love and Love-as-salvation seriously, we’ll continue to take the terms and symbols of “the mystery” as the plain truth-imagining “star-men and the like-and miss the deeper understanding, which was reasonable, and natural, and known to the initiates. Honestly, what does “Love is patient, love is kind” have to do with flying through the Universe? Paul speaks about spiritual bodies, and he speaks of love. What whole might those be the parts of? Give him some credit by searching for something self-consistent. And as he himself tells us that he speaks the truth in a mystery, allow him a sophisticated use of metaphor and allegory, and interpret them according to the heart of his message.
When Paul says The Lord and it goes back to his definitional identifyers is 1 Thesselonians en theo patri kia kyrio Ihsou Xristo. in father god and lord/master Yeshu the anointed. apo theon patros hemon kia kyriou ihsou xristou from our father god and master Yeshu the anointed tou kyriou hemon Ihsou xristos emprosthen tou theo kia patros hemon. to our master Yeshu the anointed before our father god. And so Paul here is talking about Jesus being an intermediate between man and god. And explainer of gods will so to speak. So I read out of this: Paul Yeshu [Divine/Supreme/appointed teacher] Theos [Yahweh/El] We can also look at it like Theos is the great circle of being and in that circle of beings is a shaded area in which the followers of Ihsou enter that area and recieve special instruction.
Whenever I hear a considered erudite expert (a Phd?) say, "I think there IS a lot of issues..." it stops me in my tracks. Choice of words along with accompanying grammatically correct speaking is what I expect to experience from a learned person as a 'break' from normal, quotidian speech. Call me some sort of a purist snob, but I like to think of myself as someone who enjoys hearing someone talk from a different background other than from a “dumbed down” American educational system. Having said this, I am not throwing the baby out with the bathwater (the discussion is interesting), but it would be refreshing to hear from someone who is more vigilant in not allowing these kinds of things to creep into our language.
Robyn's analysis was lightweight. A poor examination of "Paul". Was there a historical Paul? There is no evidence to suggest there was. Is Marcion the person masquerading as Paul?. Looks highly likely to me. The whole NT story is fiction motivated by the despair and new thinking to the Jewish crisis of 70, 112, 132 Ad. Acts is provable fiction. A fairy tale of Greek proportions. So this stuff doesn't do it for me.
Did the disciples have hallucinations that accounts for their belief in a resurrection?? Is that a serious historical question? Name one modern or ancient instance of multiple people having the same hallucination of someone they were close to that died. Is that the most simple explanation? Pseudo-psychological explanations are something akin to supernatural explanations. If you take Walsh's thesis that the gospel stories were creative fictions that didn't necessarily come from any oral traditions from so called primitive Christian communities, and that Acts is a work of pure fiction, then you only have Paul's letters to give an indication of what the apostles (not called disciples in the letters) believed about the risen Christ. No empty tomb story, no explanation of a risen "physical" body.
@davidgehandefonseka44381 second ago since When did Saul>Paul become an Apostle?! he was the counterpart of AbuBakre in Islamic history...both Usurpers
Maccoby was a Pauline scholar early in the last century. He wrote some interesting books and often made some deft literary points. Unfortunately, Maccoby’s thoughts about Paul the Pharisee were completely ahistorical and therefore not even a little valid.
@@glarris1NO WAY, COULD A HALF BREED "BENJAMITE" Roman's 11:1-5...COULD OF EVER BEEN A "PHARISEE" NOR STUDENT OF RAV GAMALIEL, ABSURD, AND A HERODIAN ROMAN CITIZEN?..ABSOLUTE ABSURDITY, THE PROBLEM IS, MOST PEOPLE HAVE NO IDEA OF JEWISH CULTURE, AND SOCIAL STANDARDS, JEWS, LIVE THEIR RELIGION, UNLIKE CHRISTIANS, LUKE PULLED A FAST ONE, IN ACTS, ...ESPECIALLY, THE NOTION THAT THE SANHEDRAN GAVE PAUL "LETTERS" TO GO AFTER CHRISTIANS TO DRAG THEM BACK TO ROME, AGAIN, THE AVERAGE PERSON, HAS NO IDEA OF WHO, OR WHAT, THE SANHEDRAN WERE, THE NOTION PAUL HAD LETTERS, IS LAUGHABLE, THEY WOULDN'T OF LET PAUL IN THE FRONT DOOR, PAUL. WAS A HALF BREED "GENTILE" NENCE WHY HE WENT TO HIS OWN PEOPLE SAMARITANS, PAUL WAS RAISED A ROMAN CITIZEN, NOT A HEBREW SPEAKING JEW, WHO GREW UP IN A JEWISH SHUL, NEVER HAPPENED PEROOD...
YES CORRECT DR WALSH ABOUIT THE AFTER LIFE - HE CLEARLY USED THE TERM 'perish' ALWAYS!!? Why isn't Paul commended for his insistence on the woman's "Passion" 1 cor 7 and that her husband is to fulfill her desires first!! That was not RADICAL??
6:20 It's not necessary for a Jesus to be made up. Minimum mythicism postulates that the Jesus character evolved from and arose out of its seed and substrate in Judaism through what Judaism calls the two powers heresy and Philo's angel of the LORD. All Paul (and Peter and James) had to do was name this angel Jesus.
Paul was a hypocrite when it came to being a jew vs being a gentile. " Unto the jews i became a jew and unto them that without the law I became as one without the law" Thats hypocritical and he tells Peter(Christs right hand man) that he is hypocritical for eating with a jew when you were eating with a gentile. Paul seemed real moved to throw peter under the bus. Peter is always being pushed down by Paul and people who follow paul. Follow Jesus.
The idea that what Jesus said during his life wasn’t important is a Pauline perspective that doesn’t make sense when used as a broad lens through which to interpret Christianity & I think this is why I often find myself disagreeing with RFW. If we assume Jesus was a historical teacher, the idea that his resurrection is the only reason we have these Christ groups is buying much too much into Paul’s agenda. That isn’t history, it’s data from a few letters by a very strange man. And on top of that, a man who tells us his agenda is a unique one. In a strange way this position is actually going very much with the grain of orthodoxy and its desired narrative. It makes much more sense, historically, that Jesus was a treasured teacher whose words very much DID matter, than that a single exceptional event was truly the reason for his being remembered. (To be clear, I understand RFW doesn’t think this event actually happened. But neither do I think it’s purported happening was nearly as important to these early groups - including, even, Paul’s groups - as we think of it today. Again, that’s retroactively injecting Christian Orthodoxy into the past)
If it was important enough to argue about, it was important enough to cite proof texts or words of the master. That's just how cultists are. They rely on the words of some unassailable authority for their opinions. The fact that Paul didn't cite any of Jesus' words is a big red flag to me.
@@pirbird14 A big red flag for what, exactly? Paul was the unassailable authority precisely because of his claim to special access to the divine Jesus.
@@Jd-808 He claimed unassailable authority. Doesn't mean anyone respected that claim. His "access" was a one off, never repeated. Did he get all the doctrine from that one encounter on the road to Damascus? Or was Jesus whispering in his ear on a regular basis?
You understand that people who hear voices in their heads can be treated with medication successfully. We have Today people who claim to talk to Aliens and all kinds of other people.
30:30 very interesting! Jacob has openly and publicly ridiculed Richard Carrier for saying exactly this. Does Dr Walsh just get a free pass here because she's already affirmed that she's "not a mythicist"? Hypocrisy disappoints me. Scholarship should prioritise evidence
James- Why can't you believe in what Paul wrote as he put his eternal life or punishment that those witnesses saw what they saw??In my TRADER's logic, the chance that Paul is/was delusional is very very low. I love Christianity's forcing of all critical thinking people/ YOU HAVE TO DECIDE ON THIS RESSERECTION THING. For me Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 is SOOO detailed when compared to the Cross, IMPOSSIBLE for those peculiar verses being fulfilled to the letter. That forced me to accept the Supernatural, that God entered this world. A true "fairy tale" . Many of your guests mentally CANNOT ACCEPT THE SUPERNATURAL- maybe because that takes them off the throne , a frightening thought. I figured out that Chris Hitchens Slayed Pastors because he would not allow the POSSIBILTY of the Supernatural and they would never call him on it.. Like, How can they win a debate where a god is RIDICULOUS....sorry random
These non-consensus views won't make a big impact on NT studies, beyond the small circle of progressives that praise her, and refuse to engage her work critically. Same thing has happened with Francesca Stavrakopoulou. The same reason she's not a mythicist would mitigate against fabricated divination experiences of events within Jesus' life. There's zero evidence that the Gospels last Supper traditions originate with Paul, and Paul is clearly saying these are things that happened *within* Jesus' life, and he's saying it fairly early. Its also fairly controversial material to fabricate. All of that would put his message at risk, were it not something that could be verified, and there'd be no reason whatsoever for him to retroject it back into Jesus' Life. He could've simply said "The Lord revealed to me that he wants us to partake of this ritual."
You’re missing the point. I don’t think the idea of a ‘last supper’ & communal meal was fabricated fwiw. But Paul does say he ‘received from the Lord’ his message about it. That implies the tradition of what we now call the Eucharist was a divination experience. So yes he’s saying it happened within his life, but he was not there for it, he received it from the celestial Jesus. She isn’t saying it was fabricated. I think she believes Paul really thought this was a divine experience and he was telling the truth, at least at some level. IMO he probably didn’t think it was a literal historical event that Jesus said those words, I don’t think divination experiences generally work like that unless they ARE fabricated. But that doesn’t mean he was lying, either. Essentially (in my opinion) Paul IS saying “The Lord revealed to me that he wants u to partake of this ritual, that the wine we drink and the bread we eat at the Lord’s Supper (an already existing tradition which commemorates Jesus’s last supper) symbolizes these things”.
Poor old Robyn has virtually no spiritual experience herself but is trying to tell the world about one of the most spiritually switched-on personalities in the New Testament. She is not even sure that Paul's account of his "out of body experience" is what actually happened at the time of his conversion. That was a rare occurrence in those days but today OBEs and NDEs are as common as fish and chips. It is thanks to Paul that we learn how to apply the gifts of the spirit in our communities. Most important we learn that the spirits must be tested. Paul turns "The Holy Spirit" into a host of Heavenly Spirits of various abilities ministering to the early Christians. He teaches us that speaking in tongues is actually speaking in a real foreign language, unknown to the medium or prophet, for the benefit of the foreigners in the audience and that it has no similarity to the psycho-babble caused today by out of control worldly spirits. We learn that it is preferable to have a spirit speaking in the native tongue of the congregation whenever possible, or at the least have an interpreter present.
Paul never met Jesus:??? sure sweetheart as Paul wasn't part of the Sanhedrin who tried Jesus before he was given to Pilate! LOL 😆 Always love you're statements without evidence .
2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
What is your evidence that Paul did meet Jesus? He never claims to have met him. There's zero evidence that he was "part of the Sanhedrin who tried Jesus before he was given to Pilate". That claim appears nowhere in the New Testament. Are you just making stuff up? The idea that Paul never met Jesus is very basic biblical scholarship, like something you would learn on day 1 of an Intro to the New Testament course.
And, now look again at Paul's idiocy and failures. Look at Philemon 1:1 he sez he's "a prisoner of Christ Jesus" lol 😆😆😆😆 I thought was supposed to free prisoners from their captivity, but now Paul spews captivity and that contradicts jesus message and common sense with jesus outside him as well. Again like always apologists will never answer for this and can't.
Sign up for the course! historyvalley--pursuit4knowledge.thrivecart.com/paulslegacy/
Here a taste of Jesus power ❤ warning it is intense
Agreed. Great channel and Dr RFW is so erudite.
I'm not magical-religious at all but a creative writer and steal these ancient pop culture tropes - they are the most long lasting! - so will take the course.
I am taking this and it is an immense value. It is also serious, masterful close reading....big fun. Learning a lot. It helps my work to demystify the production of these cultural materials/literature.
It was, after all, just regular folks trying to get the work done, ...even geniuses have to pay their bills....
As a pro marketer and artist - i am always promoting new projects/ideas/works - it's easy to identify with Paul and the very hard work of selling and marketing new ideas.
i do have to confess to having to sloooow down all of the professor's videos....LOTS of depth and richness....
Dr Walsh is such a brilliant woman
@@jaynyczak7999 Like Dr Ehrman, she has a gift of taking something thick and making it accessible to the layperson. I think that takes brilliance. What are you talking about?
Walsh is fantastic and Jacob is rapidly becoming my favorite amongst these type of channels
I also recommend “What Your Pastor Didn’t Tell You” that is hosted by Zach Miller. He interviews a lot of solid scholars around the Bible and Ancient Near East, like James VanderKem, Amar Annus, Mark S. Smith and Gary Rendsburg
The host lets the guests talk. If there's mutual banter, it's relevant to the subject at hand. There's no (out of the closet) atheist game to play like the other channels. It's cool when you're 20, but you tend to grow up and get over it.
I just find subjects like these fascinating, and I enjoy listening to the scholars when they make an appearance. Good work.
It's nice to see Jacob so engaged and animated with his guest. I've never seen him smile so much.
It's both heartwarming and spiritually uplifting to have a beautiful and very intelligent woman share her knowledge and insights into early Christoanity and Christ Jesus. Thank you Dr. Walsh, and may God bless you with a long and fruitful life.😇
I really appreciate her depth of knowledge and common sense thinking.
Dr. Walsh is quite a clever scholar. I have completed her course on Paul and I have to say it's brilliant! Thanks Dr. Walsh
She is the best guest on this channel, so far.
Follow all her vids, got her book, will have to look for papers. Starting the course - have to say for the amount of good, new ideas/information and costs - immense value.
I am coming to be BIG fan of younger women classical lit scholars...so really good ones a comin' - and already here. I study all this to be a better creative writer and business storyteller, BTW.
Simps...all of us.
An excellent discussion: Jacob asked some very pertinent questions and Robyn gave clear, detailed answers. Understanding Paul seems more important than ever to understand Christian origins.
The course has been great so far. Worth the price of admission just for the access to secondary sources, which are super interesting!
Paul and the risen Jesus, the cash cows that keep on giving.
Why then did Paul write with a sense of urgency that Jesus's return was imminent? If I were, Paul; and "cash" was motive --- I would've milked that cow with no sense of urgency.
Thank you for the video. Keep up the good work!
Thank you
Robyn makes you smile.
Moon is a clearing house! Awesome!
Well done. Very informative. Kudos.
👍 thanks
Miami is fortunate to have her. Even though I have read Scripture and studied Paul to a small degree, I find that she raises Paul to quite the man for his time. One of the great scholars and philosophers. Very intelligent and knowledgeable professor. Also easy on the eyes and ears.
what about paul letter forgeries? can we accept the perspective when this is being ignored?
I haven't read Carrier's "Jesus from Outer Space" but I wonder if it resonates with what Dr Walsh is saying at 29:00 ???
I have LOTS of questions which I will save for the class - but what are the literary antecedents of Paul's tropes, motifs, themes. Homer is having a hot minute - again...
Homer is a good start but topics from Romulus and Remus (born by a virgin), Poseidon (god of the sea. calming the sea, walking over water), Dionysos (god of wine - turn water to wine) and Asklepios (god of healing) play a role
"l'm a red sox fan"
Somewhere out there in outer space light years away aliens will be wondering how a human female scholar is at the same time a ventilating device for foot insulators that only works on textiles of a specific color.
What is best translation of Paul's work? Gotta close read the originals.
The New Testament by the Catholic Priest Johannes Greber. It is available in PDF online per favour of Mr Google.
@@hornplayer1228 Found it - gracias...johannesgreber.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/greber-newtestament.pdf
These newer "scholars" are so enlightened and smart.
Unfortunately scholars are now suggesting Paul made it all up
The reason the divorce thing probably isn’t a divination experience is Paul clearly delineates what “the Lord” says about it from what he thinks about it. I don’t think that makes any sense psychologically. It seems much more likely to me that Paul is simply familiar with a tradition about Jesus on adultery and adds to it than that he is claiming Jesus revealed to him his position and Paul adds to that with his own thoughts on the matter.
Good stuff I wonder what your thoughts are on paul being a herodian
Joseph Smith vision of Mormonism and Paul's conversion narrative were almost the same both were very spurious.
Nikola Tesla, Dmitri Mendeleev, Isaac Newton, and more all had visions that led to real world inventions
But Paul never mentions that the pillars were followers of Jesus when he was alive
pretty sure Keitel played Judas, not Peter, in Last Temptation.
Saul of Tarsus spent the first part of his life vigorously opposing and trying to destroy the Jesus Messiah movement; then he had an encounter with the resurrected Jesus, while on the road to Damascus. Saul went from being one of the greatest enemies of the church to being one of its greatest champions and author of about half of the New Testament.
Yes and he was not around when jesus was. Fantasy book
@Truth-Be-Told-USA
Saul was not with Jesus during his life, the way the Twelve Apostles and disciples were. And although he was not an eyewitness, the way Peter, Andrew, James, John, and the others were, Paul met the resurrected Jesus. It was that encounter which turned Saul's hard, unbelieving, and cruel heart into the kind and loving person he became after his encounter with Jesus. His encounter with Jesus also saved his soul. We believe Caesar Nero executed Saul and Peter.
@@barrygaynor1025 no proof he met him a story in the book. I can claim I met bigfoot and you are smart enough not to believe me even though I wrote it down (here)
It's so interesting how low the bar is set for divine God. A story is enough, but if I claim I met bigfoot you would rightly want actual proof
Odd why they follow Paul and Paulianity not Jebus or Moses.
Bizarre theology.
It’s kind of staggering just how under-appreciated Paul actually is. Consider that a good chunk of the New Testament is literally just his words. Much of the rest of it is people writing in his name. And the REST is either inspired by Paul (Mark, and as a result, the other gospels) or arguing against him (James). In a very real sense, the New Testament is Paul’s. Yet most people have no, or essentially no idea who he is!
We don’t learn anything about him in schools, at least not in public ones. Yet he’s easily one of the most important people in the history of the world.
Jesus told his disciples to not place new wine into an old vessel meaning his gospels wasn't meant to be a part of Religion. Paul ignored this entirely. Result was the new testament which there isn't anything new and if they're new they're not entirely true
How many of the "modern" ideas in pop culture go back to Paul's digesting of earlier popular tropes, themes and motifs? Of course, promising "life after death" is ALWAYS a winning sales tactic...
@@AlexLightGiver We have fan-fiction accounts we can date not before 150 and we have no idea what actually happened. Stories in koine greek about a dead Aramaeic-speaking preacher which copies from each other and contradict each other and use elements from older papgan stories like copied miracles.
@@TorianTammas sounds about right 👍( nothing was written down) not even in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Didn't say much about how or why Paul's legacy is "unforgettable"
In my opinion, until we stop comparing spiritual things with super-physical things, and take God-is-Love and Love-as-salvation seriously, we’ll continue to take the terms and symbols of “the mystery” as the plain truth-imagining “star-men and the like-and miss the deeper understanding, which was reasonable, and natural, and known to the initiates.
Honestly, what does “Love is patient, love is kind” have to do with flying through the Universe?
Paul speaks about spiritual bodies, and he speaks of love. What whole might those be the parts of? Give him some credit by searching for something self-consistent. And as he himself tells us that he speaks the truth in a mystery, allow him a sophisticated use of metaphor and allegory, and interpret them according to the heart of his message.
When Paul says The Lord and it goes back to his definitional identifyers is 1 Thesselonians
en theo patri kia kyrio Ihsou Xristo.
in father god and lord/master Yeshu the anointed.
apo theon patros hemon kia kyriou ihsou xristou
from our father god and master Yeshu the anointed
tou kyriou hemon Ihsou xristos emprosthen tou theo kia patros hemon.
to our master Yeshu the anointed before our father god.
And so Paul here is talking about Jesus being an intermediate between man and god. And explainer of gods will so to speak.
So I read out of this:
Paul Yeshu [Divine/Supreme/appointed teacher] Theos [Yahweh/El]
We can also look at it like Theos is the great circle of being and in that circle of beings is a shaded area in which the followers of Ihsou enter that area and recieve special instruction.
Whenever I hear a considered erudite expert (a Phd?) say, "I think there IS a lot of issues..." it stops me in my tracks. Choice of words along with accompanying grammatically correct speaking is what I expect to experience from a learned person as a 'break' from normal, quotidian speech. Call me some sort of a purist snob, but I like to think of myself as someone who enjoys hearing someone talk from a different background other than from a “dumbed down” American educational system. Having said this, I am not throwing the baby out with the bathwater (the discussion is interesting), but it would be refreshing to hear from someone who is more vigilant in not allowing these kinds of things to creep into our language.
Robyn's analysis was lightweight. A poor examination of "Paul".
Was there a historical Paul? There is no evidence to suggest there was. Is Marcion the person masquerading as Paul?. Looks highly likely to me.
The whole NT story is fiction motivated by the despair and new thinking to the Jewish crisis of 70, 112, 132 Ad.
Acts is provable fiction. A fairy tale of Greek proportions.
So this stuff doesn't do it for me.
Did the disciples have hallucinations that accounts for their belief in a resurrection?? Is that a serious historical question? Name one modern or ancient instance of multiple people having the same hallucination of someone they were close to that died. Is that the most simple explanation? Pseudo-psychological explanations are something akin to supernatural explanations. If you take Walsh's thesis that the gospel stories were creative fictions that didn't necessarily come from any oral traditions from so called primitive Christian communities, and that Acts is a work of pure fiction, then you only have Paul's letters to give an indication of what the apostles (not called disciples in the letters) believed about the risen Christ. No empty tomb story, no explanation of a risen "physical" body.
@davidgehandefonseka44381 second ago
since When did Saul>Paul become an Apostle?! he was the counterpart of AbuBakre in Islamic history...both Usurpers
Did Paul have a second name?
Paul was the first "Joseph Smith", Experts in pharisees can show how Paul in fact was not a Pharisee Read Hyamm Macolby,,
Read, who?
Maccoby was a Pauline scholar early in the last century. He wrote some interesting books and often made some deft literary points. Unfortunately, Maccoby’s thoughts about Paul the Pharisee were completely ahistorical and therefore not even a little valid.
Yes!
@@glarris1NO WAY, COULD A HALF BREED "BENJAMITE" Roman's 11:1-5...COULD OF EVER BEEN A "PHARISEE" NOR STUDENT OF RAV GAMALIEL, ABSURD, AND A HERODIAN ROMAN CITIZEN?..ABSOLUTE ABSURDITY, THE PROBLEM IS, MOST PEOPLE HAVE NO IDEA OF JEWISH CULTURE, AND SOCIAL STANDARDS, JEWS, LIVE THEIR RELIGION, UNLIKE CHRISTIANS,
LUKE PULLED A FAST ONE, IN ACTS, ...ESPECIALLY, THE NOTION THAT THE SANHEDRAN GAVE PAUL "LETTERS" TO GO AFTER CHRISTIANS TO DRAG THEM BACK TO ROME, AGAIN, THE AVERAGE PERSON, HAS NO IDEA OF WHO, OR WHAT, THE SANHEDRAN WERE, THE NOTION PAUL HAD LETTERS, IS LAUGHABLE, THEY WOULDN'T OF LET PAUL IN THE FRONT DOOR, PAUL. WAS A HALF BREED "GENTILE" NENCE WHY HE WENT TO HIS OWN PEOPLE SAMARITANS, PAUL WAS RAISED A ROMAN CITIZEN, NOT A HEBREW SPEAKING JEW, WHO GREW UP IN A JEWISH SHUL, NEVER HAPPENED PEROOD...
@@Augustus_McCraeHyamm Macolby The Mythmaker, and Paul and Hellenism
YES CORRECT DR WALSH ABOUIT THE AFTER LIFE - HE CLEARLY USED THE TERM 'perish' ALWAYS!!? Why isn't Paul commended for his insistence on the woman's "Passion" 1 cor 7 and that her husband is to fulfill her desires first!! That was not RADICAL??
Why are Paul's Sufferings and Power's= i.e, Major Miracles, his being whipped , JUST TO START!! Left out of his "credo" !
6:20 It's not necessary for a Jesus to be made up. Minimum mythicism postulates that the Jesus character evolved from and arose out of its seed and substrate in Judaism through what Judaism calls the two powers heresy and Philo's angel of the LORD. All Paul (and Peter and James) had to do was name this angel Jesus.
Careful guys, she looks like she could charm the hood off Peter!
Here a taste of Jesus power ❤ warning it is intense
Paul was a hypocrite when it came to being a jew vs being a gentile. " Unto the jews i became a jew and unto them that without the law I became as one without the law" Thats hypocritical and he tells Peter(Christs right hand man) that he is hypocritical for eating with a jew when you were eating with a gentile. Paul seemed real moved to throw peter under the bus. Peter is always being pushed down by Paul and people who follow paul. Follow Jesus.
Follow Jesus. Exactly.
The idea that what Jesus said during his life wasn’t important is a Pauline perspective that doesn’t make sense when used as a broad lens through which to interpret Christianity & I think this is why I often find myself disagreeing with RFW. If we assume Jesus was a historical teacher, the idea that his resurrection is the only reason we have these Christ groups is buying much too much into Paul’s agenda. That isn’t history, it’s data from a few letters by a very strange man. And on top of that, a man who tells us his agenda is a unique one.
In a strange way this position is actually going very much with the grain of orthodoxy and its desired narrative. It makes much more sense, historically, that Jesus was a treasured teacher whose words very much DID matter, than that a single exceptional event was truly the reason for his being remembered.
(To be clear, I understand RFW doesn’t think this event actually happened. But neither do I think it’s purported happening was nearly as important to these early groups - including, even, Paul’s groups - as we think of it today. Again, that’s retroactively injecting Christian Orthodoxy into the past)
If it was important enough to argue about, it was important enough to cite proof texts or words of the master. That's just how cultists are. They rely on the words of some unassailable authority for their opinions. The fact that Paul didn't cite any of Jesus' words is a big red flag to me.
@@pirbird14 A big red flag for what, exactly? Paul was the unassailable authority precisely because of his claim to special access to the divine Jesus.
@@Jd-808 He claimed unassailable authority. Doesn't mean anyone respected that claim. His "access" was a one off, never repeated. Did he get all the doctrine from that one encounter on the road to Damascus? Or was Jesus whispering in his ear on a regular basis?
@@pirbird14 that’s a great question. It seems Walsh understands it as continuing revelations but I’d imagine that’s very much debatable.
I'd like to know more about the Ebionites
St. Paul Heavenly Kingdom LOVE culture saving the world in true worship and justice.
You understand that people who hear voices in their heads can be treated with medication successfully. We have Today people who claim to talk to Aliens and all kinds of other people.
30:30 very interesting! Jacob has openly and publicly ridiculed Richard Carrier for saying exactly this. Does Dr Walsh just get a free pass here because she's already affirmed that she's "not a mythicist"?
Hypocrisy disappoints me. Scholarship should prioritise evidence
James- Why can't you believe in what Paul wrote as he put his eternal life or punishment that those witnesses saw what they saw??In my TRADER's logic, the chance that Paul is/was delusional is very very low. I love Christianity's forcing of all critical thinking people/ YOU HAVE TO DECIDE ON THIS RESSERECTION THING. For me Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 is SOOO detailed when compared to the Cross, IMPOSSIBLE for those peculiar verses being fulfilled to the letter. That forced me to accept the Supernatural, that God entered this world. A true "fairy tale" . Many of your guests mentally CANNOT ACCEPT THE SUPERNATURAL- maybe because that takes them off the throne , a frightening thought. I figured out that Chris Hitchens Slayed Pastors because he would not allow the POSSIBILTY of the Supernatural and they would never call him on it.. Like, How can they win a debate where a god is RIDICULOUS....sorry random
Is she _trying_ to be the perfect woman?
Paul ran around with a number of women. I suspect there was some interactions
These non-consensus views won't make a big impact on NT studies, beyond the small circle of progressives that praise her, and refuse to engage her work critically. Same thing has happened with Francesca Stavrakopoulou. The same reason she's not a mythicist would mitigate against fabricated divination experiences of events within Jesus' life. There's zero evidence that the Gospels last Supper traditions originate with Paul, and Paul is clearly saying these are things that happened *within* Jesus' life, and he's saying it fairly early. Its also fairly controversial material to fabricate. All of that would put his message at risk, were it not something that could be verified, and there'd be no reason whatsoever for him to retroject it back into Jesus' Life. He could've simply said "The Lord revealed to me that he wants us to partake of this ritual."
You’re missing the point. I don’t think the idea of a ‘last supper’ & communal meal was fabricated fwiw. But Paul does say he ‘received from the Lord’ his message about it. That implies the tradition of what we now call the Eucharist was a divination experience. So yes he’s saying it happened within his life, but he was not there for it, he received it from the celestial Jesus.
She isn’t saying it was fabricated. I think she believes Paul really thought this was a divine experience and he was telling the truth, at least at some level. IMO he probably didn’t think it was a literal historical event that Jesus said those words, I don’t think divination experiences generally work like that unless they ARE fabricated. But that doesn’t mean he was lying, either. Essentially (in my opinion) Paul IS saying “The Lord revealed to me that he wants u to partake of this ritual, that the wine we drink and the bread we eat at the Lord’s Supper (an already existing tradition which commemorates Jesus’s last supper) symbolizes these things”.
Poor old Robyn has virtually no spiritual experience herself but is trying to tell the world about one of the most spiritually switched-on personalities in the New Testament. She is not even sure that Paul's account of his "out of body experience" is what actually happened at the time of his conversion. That was a rare occurrence in those days but today OBEs and NDEs are as common as fish and chips. It is thanks to Paul that we learn how to apply the gifts of the spirit in our communities. Most important we learn that the spirits must be tested. Paul turns "The Holy Spirit" into a host of Heavenly Spirits of various abilities ministering to the early Christians. He teaches us that speaking in tongues is actually speaking in a real foreign language, unknown to the medium or prophet, for the benefit of the foreigners in the audience and that it has no similarity to the psycho-babble caused today by out of control worldly spirits. We learn that it is preferable to have a spirit speaking in the native tongue of the congregation whenever possible, or at the least have an interpreter present.
Paul never met Jesus:??? sure sweetheart as Paul wasn't part of the Sanhedrin who tried Jesus before he was given to Pilate! LOL 😆
Always love you're statements without evidence .
2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
What is your evidence that Paul did meet Jesus? He never claims to have met him. There's zero evidence that he was "part of the Sanhedrin who tried Jesus before he was given to Pilate". That claim appears nowhere in the New Testament. Are you just making stuff up? The idea that Paul never met Jesus is very basic biblical scholarship, like something you would learn on day 1 of an Intro to the New Testament course.
And, now look again at Paul's idiocy and failures. Look at Philemon 1:1 he sez he's "a prisoner of Christ Jesus" lol 😆😆😆😆 I thought was supposed to free prisoners from their captivity, but now Paul spews captivity and that contradicts jesus message and common sense with jesus outside him as well. Again like always apologists will never answer for this and can't.