My favorite part is "learn who you are as a person and then decide how you want to look later". It's something I am still learning to do know. I primarily thrift and its so easy to fall into looking for trends at the thrift as well. Also wanted to mention if anyone one else went looking for the mycelium leather the artists name is Aurelie Fontan. I misspelled it as well searching and couldn't find it at first.
“Goth” fashion was inspired by some of the looks by the early bands such as Siouxsie and The Banshees, The Cure, Bauhaus, and Sisters of Mercy. That being said Goth is a music based subculture so if you like goth music you can be goth. I wear a lot of black but they are just regular shirts and jogger sweatpants. I don’t like fishnets, chokers, teased hair, or eyeliner. I wear eyeshadow but I am not going to dye my hair black or paint my face with white paint. I do not want to “look like a goth” because why should I feel forced to look a certain way, I am goth because I love the music. If I have any advice it is to allow yourself to just like things, don’t make one thing your identity, and fashion wise you can take and leave aspects (not counting cultural appropriation).
exactly! its about not conforming to societal expectations of gender and consuermism and embracing the macabre instead of running from it. if we're such non-conformists, its so counterintuitve to expect everyone to conform to a certain visual "look." as long as you appreciate the music, community, and aren't a shit person, you can be goth!
I do like the look, I love the music and for a huge part i stand with goth morals and believes / political views. it's just the what? small part of me that isn't 100% extreme left that is apparently what makes me none goth? is it wrong to not be 100% politcal or is this truly needed to be a goth? Do I need to throwmyself in every war that has been happening since 2001? Do i need to go around throw paint on art to be goth? cuz that's what i have been hearing lately. that if i'm not focused on every politcal stuff. If I DARE to view things in a grey perspective. that I should not be goth or a cybergoth. and the amount of people that will screen short your words out of context and tell people to avoid you is just....maaaaaaan... what does one need to do? I'm asking other goths who have been goth way longer than I have. in hope to find a form of hope. because i love the goth subcultre but lately I have faced so many extreme left or right people that i feel like i belong no where and can't even enjoy myself. that i shouldn't listen to any songs or wear any of my clothes. I tried to take a distance from goth and cybergoth but i have been feeling so hollow as if i lost a part of myself. But I don't dare to go back.... afraid of the bullying, I'm to tired to be dealing with bullying from a subcultre i would love to call my home. I"m not among the "normal" people. people who bullied me for over 9 years irl and now the subcultre I turned too for comfort and sense of longing is doing the exact same but digitally. I hear older goths being so relaxed and okay with me but as a 23 yearold you don't really go out for funs with people 60+. where does one belong? If the place you seek doesn't exist anymore? Am I in the wrong? Am I doing something wrong? Did I miss something? Did I live in an aesthetic this whole time? or is this just media?
It’s just sad that nowadays, many people no longer have their own personal style to present their identity. Now, we see people dress in different types of ‘aesthetics’ that they feel like they have to follow if they’re into it. My stand is this: you do you but if it’s taking over your life and impacts your time, mental well-being and money, let it go. Thanks for speaking out about this, it was an excellent video! At this point we’re just thrown into a category based on our ‘aesthetic’, just like those “personality tests” and “zodiac signs”.
[laughs in goth while watching this] if goth is dead, i guess i need to tell everyone at the monthly goth night i go to that always gets packed out. don’t look at a few egirls and conclude an entire subculture is dead because of that
@4Tlccas is it not the name of the music genre??? or should i call it post punk for your elder sensitivities. and who’s to say i’m not using egirl derisively. don’t pmo, there are people born past the prime of the 80s who adhere to those diy alternative ideals and i’m sorry you can’t see past your narrow boomer mindset. ironic considering how this is supposed to be an accepting subculture, but don’t even get me started on the racism i’ve encountered from people as old as yourself and as young as me! anyway, bless your heart for being bitter all up and down these comments. i can see your reply history to others under this video if i click on your profile. get a hobby 🫠
it paints me to see how "self expression" has turned into what it is currently. since a very young age ive been drawn to the punk and goth subcultures, studying their history, listening to the music, and participating in the communities. this has also led me to diy my own battle jackets and crust pants, and buy clothing pieces and accessories and such by small artists and fellow punks/goths. ive also been very into alternative japanese fashions such as lolita, decora, cult party kei, and i like to combine my interest in all of these subcultures and styles and play with them to create outfits i feel comfortable in and reflect who i am. i definitely feel like my passion and connection to these subcultures and styles is definitely influenced by the fact that i am gay, trans, and autistic. my mere existence and experiences are outside of the norm of most of the world, so i am naturally drawn to these outside expressive groups, styles, and music. like they were made for me and for my comfort, compared to the norm that tries so hard to push me away and make me feel discomforted. seeing these subcultures being twisted into money printers for crapitalism and being eaten up by consumers who dont know where these things come from is so hurtful.
For example, in japan, jirai kei is popular rn. It's based on runaways that ends up in kabukicho, most drink until late, take drugs etc. Basically misfits in depression (i sound rude sorry). People use it as an aesthetic but the origin is very sad and it isn't just a style.
I dont know what the hell is going around. I think self style has lost completely to a type of aesthetic. As a hip hop lover, this type of Y2k aesthetic, tattoos, dye hair, baggy clothes and lots more… Is just the same for every one. I see every R&B, trap, soul artist look very similar. Other thing that i dont understand is the facial and body surgery. It seems in 2022 every one wants to be a bratz. I Love your talk, thanks for sharing 💜🍓
i think you just materialized a thought i was really stuck with - personal style and aesthetic are separate. i started feeling a little pressured to dress and be perceived as my aesthetic and the more i tried to adopt the aesthetic, the more i felt like an imposter.. which took the fun out of the creative subculture. not falling into that again - especially for social media clout
This was suchhhh a good video! It's really interesting, and I'e notice on platforms like tiktok that there are a lot of videos pushing back against the way we view subcultures as aesthetics in relation to the last few years- I've noticed in the alternative area (ie. punk, goth etc) that there's a lot of upset towards people that are now looking back on when they tried 'e-girl/alt' for a year with shame, it's upsetting to see people use it as a a trending aesthetic as you said, only throw it away when they're done with it, ignoring the actual history and people behind it. I think especially with younger people who have less of a sense of identity, aesthetics are a way to try out different aspects of yourself, but it's being done from a superficial perspective rather than being introspective and genuinely considering who they are as people.
that is so true! it's weird because when I was younger it wasn't for show. If you were emo, you were that to the core, the same way with scene, etc. I get doing things for fun but it's just seems draining somehow.
@@beckjuice8687 Yes I couldn’t find the right terms to describe all of that! Like back then there have been emos, goths, hipsters, … but now it seems like all these subcultures completely died and things like the e girl came up, and they take so much from the old emo style and everything.
i struggle with this because ive been into the cyber y2k late 90s new millenium since 2012 when it was popular in tumblr based off the music you listen to. im 23 now and i still love rave music im actually trying to become a dj. so for me my style has always been a direct representation of the music i like ixed together. my issue was when the cyber subversive basics, post-apocalyptic style came about and i was watching fashion videos about not giving into micro trends and i started having an existential crisis because now i was questioning if i was falling victim into the micro trend cycle. i then tried to reimagine my style but didnt feel myself. i stopped paying attention and kept DJing and focusing on my music again and naturally my style reverted back. ive experienced the wave of the cyber aesthetics come in and out at least twice in the last 5 years
@4Tlccas yeah if you read you can see it’s a revival of 90s y2k which is a recreation of retrofuturism in the mid century. i obviously wasn’t alive back then lmao so i came about in the 2012 wave.
one reason I had to stop using tiktok was because of this. i’ve always used my clothes as a form of self expression, but for years i didn’t have a strong sense of self to express. the peak of feeling insecure in my sense of identity coincided with me buying into tiktok microtrends the most, and it was negatively affecting the way i thought about fashion and engaged in consumerism. once i started to come into my gender queerness and regained confidence in who i was, i started to just buy and wear things that i felt the most myself in , not just what i thought looked cool (i’m not above being Influenced tho, sometimes i just actually really fw what happens to be on trend). i try to tune out tiktok because, even if what i’m wearing is microtrend #8 of the month, it’ll still feel personal. i don’t need the algorithm to push some random style on me that fast fashion + vintage resellers are going to capitalize on heavy… this video was really really great btw :)
I feel sorry for young people trying to explore their identity through fashion because they grew up with the super confusing social media landscape. I think they're just as susceptible to the societal, cultural and political antagonists that people before them faced. I think they also face a whole lot of scrutiny about the way they dress too which isn't fair imo. I admittedly watch a lot of these young RUclipsrs and they have kinda glossy lifestyles but they seem super fucking lonely and i kinda feel for them. Not to say they're all victims but they've just grown up with a different set of rules / tools for self- expression (as you've so cleverly put in this vid!). I feel really old writing this lol. Anyway thanks for making the brain do a bit of thinking haha. Great vid.
I was nodding my head as I read your comment and I’m now feeling old too 😅. You’re absolutely right though, gen z has it tough with genuine self expression due to cancel culture, etc (I see it with my younger relatives and feel bad).
If it’s any consolation, I don’t think most people are like this. When you’re online a lot it’s easy to think that everyone’s acting a particular way but, as someone who I guess is part of gen z ( 🤮 hate that term 😂) your average person isn’t dogmatically adhering to aesthetics and trends. Like yes the internet has a massive influence on irl trends but I don’t think it’s as pervasive as we may think. Most people Ik aren’t prominent figures on social media and don’t seem to have this issue- especially cos it seems like a rather expensive issue to have- at least where I am but maybe elsewhere its a lot more pronounced.
This is a little bit of a nitpick and I'm not sure how this is viewed outside of the Nordics where I live. Here the japandi feels more like the continuation of the cultural exchange between two very different cultures that still somehow manage to share similar tastes and sensibilities. We find it intriguing so we blend the two, at least that is the attitude I've seen. More like a positive celebration of two cultures with different history but similar values than cultural appropriation of either.
I can admit that aesthetics can help lead someone towards finding their style, but it can also lead to a conformist path. I've seen people feel inadequate or confused because they cannot find "their aesthetic" or they like many aesthetics and cannot chose which one to settle on. The belief that one needs to stick within a single ridig style is too prominent. I think we need to teach adolescents that they are allowed to cross the lines and combine different styles so they can properly express their individuality
this was a really good video. its interesting to look at now that the hype of the 2020 “alt girl” has died down many people are going right back to bullying people who are a part of punk/goth/grunge/etc. subcultures. i know ive seen a lot of “looking back and cringing at my alt phase” videos, and these people redid their entire life around this style divorced from the politics and music that originated only to throw it all away after one summer. even “core” aesthetics like goblincore, cottagecore, etc. have become watered down to just the fashion, when looking at it even just in 2018 there was often deeper reasons for it. you mentioned in the video how cottagecore went from what was often an attempt to escape capitalism and help save the earth to just the dresses, and i personally saw goblincore go from anticapitalism and rejection of what is “pretty” or “perfect” in a way that felt very similar to grunge to basically just the colors green and brown. i grew up with a dad who is into a lot of alternative music from many different subcultures, and i also was part of online movements such as goblincore from fairly early on. it is truly a weird experience to watch as the rest of the world starts dressing like you for a single summer before going right back to seeing you as weird. i’m not gonna claim i was perfect or never fell into this, but its definitely an interesting thing to think about.
I'm happy the algorithm recommended you. This was a great video. I think it is possible to find a subculture that you feel you identify with and actually want to engage with long term. The issue is that if you are only looking to monetize or use the look/aesthetic to stand out from the rest (Ariana/ Miley/ Gwen), then you just hop from one 'look' to another without trying to understand the origins or the culture it came from. You don't ever admit that it's just a marketing ploy. You just act like this is 'the real you' (cough cough Akwafina) until it financially benefits you to change. I think the people who truly engage with the cultures and subcultures won't be trying their hardest to seem like the 'face' of it. They just belong to it. Meanwhile the people who want to stick with whatever is popular just bounce from aesthetic to aesthetic in an attempt to seem 'relevant' and 'interesting'.
great video. when I first started hearing about these aesthetics I thought it was so fun and pretty innocent. but then things seemed to just...get out of hand. it's like how when I was younger, you got labelled a goth, punk, skater, prep, nerd, scene, emo, etc. but to another level. on one hand, younger people are experimenting with their identities and sense of self and if this is one way to do it, cool. but it's also important to remember that it isn't everything.
Oh! I'm glad this came up on my recommended! this has got me thinking about how often "aesthetics" are used as shortcuts to personal style. I get how people get sucked into it, but it's much better to do the hard yards first and get a personal style, rather than cycling through trends and concepts - that's wheel's only spinning faster these days too Absolutely the internet and social media especially has sped this up too. It's sped up everything greatly. I'm old enough to remember time before the internet and life was...stable. Sometimes that meant boring (heck, often it meant boring, because i was a kid), but it also meant assurance, that you'd have something to return to. Now, everything changes so rapidly it's draining - mentally, emotionally, and financially if not super careful.
OMG THANK YOU. I've been looking for this video! I think about these themes EVERY DAY as a 32 year old Black Millennial who's been alt/ subcultured since I was 10.. I got into my ~* look as a BYPRODUCT of the alt life I was living and my interests. To see now, the style I spent decades curating for myself being mass produced and reduced down to an "aesthetic" feels so commercial and insulting. This video is spot on and so necessary. I worry so much for digital natives, who have the entire internet to influence them at such an early age.. where it used to be you, the media sources you sought after, the company you kept, and your region that influenced people just a decade or so ago.
30 year old former scene kid here, and I call this the "commodification of alt." I worked at hot topic years ago and kids would be dressed like I was back in 2005, so I'd mention a band to them. They'd have no idea. Not judging those kids, but it surprised me so much to learn that now, the look comes *first* whereas in our formative years, the music, art, lit/poetry came first and the styles followed.
As someone who is in the alternative/punk subculture, I think the thing that only bothers me is that such a huge part of punk and alternative styles is to thrift things, to not buy corporate, to dyi things, make things your own (even a bit of critique to the people in the punk subculture, who can be too absorbed with the look and music to realize the look isn't really that punk. It's the attitude and the mindset that's punk. I do think there are 'punk' looks out there right now, but it's not what most people think of with punk). To think of what you buy. Not buy what's in at the next fast fashion store. Besides that, I am kind of happy that the interest in the aesthetic/look, is what gets people interested in the subculture, and learn the history of it, where it came from and what it actually stands for. I've definitely seen the rise of people joining the subculture again. But it can still be weird because social media is so visually, a lot of people just think it's a look, not a subculture, especially for the people who aren't really interested in anything more than the look. I've definitely heard the same from people who are gothic. But I do think the hypes around these aesthetics will die down in a while again for other looks.
I do have a question for you tho. What if you for like 80% or 90% agree with a subcultre but the 10% of you that doesn't or has different views. Would it be right for the subcultre to bully you out of it? because I've been seeing a LOT of stuff on social media in which people who have a grey perspective (not right nor left view people. usually leaning more one of the sides) getting bullied out of a subcultre. or people from the same subcultre who are devided into more groups and each having other view just battling one another claiming "their view" is the right view. Are subcultes that strict? Are subcultres soposed to be that strict? Is there no space for induvidual point of views as long as the majority is the same? I always wondered this. Cuz this is what is keeping me away from a subcultre. the constant fighting, fragaile people who bully their own people into being 100% like them. The selfexsperession in some of these is truly gone. but this is what I have seen nowadays. maybe you have some more insight on this?
A quick note: not Romanian, it was an appropriation or Roma, or Romani culture (and bohemian, like you said). Rroma people are not inherently Romanians (the people from Romania), they were actually enslaved for a long time in Romania, so while I understand it’s a simple linguistic mistake, it can be a huge and painful conflation to make.
I don’t think subculture is dead I think we fall into the failure of realizing that truly being apart of a subculture is to be apart of them in real life. A lot of alternative subcultures are based in music and being apart of the music and diy scene is still alive. Online subcultures definitely fall into the pandering or vapid nature of being an aesthetic. But a lot of subcultures are real spaces on real life
As someone who has been into punk and post-punk since late 90's, I appreciate your clarifying of Kurt Cobain's place in the evolution of the genres (calling Cobain "grunge" is like calling Jesus a Christian... he was Jewish... and Cobain was punk). I also appreciate you bringing up the impact of X-Ray Spex and Siouxsie and the Banshees, the Stooges, etc. Usually people say "sex pistols" and "the cure" and leave it at that. Well done! You clearly did your research! 👏
As a mexican who was born and has lived their whole life in CDMX, I was a bit scared that the whole "little mexican girl core" on tiktok would result in even more cultural appropiation from big brands but I think we bullied those who took this "aesthetic" seriously too much and it endend up dying and becoming a meme which I think was a bit mean but also kinda fun
This was such a well researched piece and a convincing essay. I personally have hope that aesthetics won't last because I believe fashion is a cycle with updates.
I always liked the idea of having an aesthetic that I could follow because it was so much easier than trying to explain, "I'm eclectic as fuck." But as I've gotten older, I've just embraced the "I'm an eclectic rando who usually looks like the fun weird art teacher" and I'm okay with that. I really did enjoy your video and the drive into fashion history. I always find it super fascinating.
Really good video, I think you managed to keep it focused while still giving background info and details about different subcultures. As a non-native English speaker, though, I had a bit difficulties to follow what you were saying due to the evenness of your tone.
You totally nailed it. Thank you for addressing this issue. I had been feeling like the last great era for personal style was the 80s for a long time now, and nobody has addressed that until you.
Totally here for your critique of subculture and ethnic cultural exploitation But I am just…super cautious of saying what I wear is how I identify/is my identity, particularly as our understandings of ourselves shifts.
hyperspeed consumerism is at the crux of it all. not only has culture and ways of living been co-opted and packaged into easily consumable 'aesthetics' for people to put on and take off each day, we are turning ourselves into instruments of marketing. we market ourselves as items through our social image and appearances, and derive our value from that instead of from within nd in our own tastes/preferences/interests. its so bleak and i wish i could just do something without the underlying forethought of how its going to make me come across or be received and what that spells for me in the grand scheme of social relationships and my place in it all
I was looking for a video on this a few months ago and couldn't find any for some reason. So happy your video came up on my recommended, it's so well done!
Great video, super interesting! I hope the algorithm spreads this video, you deserve more attention. I have to say though, it was the japanese who made the japandi-style because they liked scandi style, not scandinavians taking some japanese styles and disregarding others
Yes, Japanese themselves also have done a lot of cultural appropriation, I'm not against it. But Lolita style, Anime and even their school uniforms are inspired by European and American culture. Singapore, combines very eastern and western elements with their several ethnic groups despite being so small. Mexico also is a combination of Spanish and Indigenous cultures. Appropriation is part of culture forming.
I have a question for you as (a semi baby bat.) is it needed to be 100% into political things to be a goth? Do I need to be 100% left wing to be goth? Cuz I'm on a grey perspective leaning more left. But people have been bullying so many other people out of the subcultre for not being 100% into their belives and pov's. Am I wrong to have personal different taste in example: people i like to date. Or does my personal taste truly need to involve everyone otherwise I set up a "unhealthy" form of beauty standarts that isn't goth like. Do I need to keep my eyes out on EVERY war that has been happening lately? or can I also focus on my school, job, etc? Do I NEED to 100% mix myself in every political issue to be goth? cuz that's what a lot of people have been saying recently and it's confusing the fok out of me. since a lot of old goths and such tell me that isn't the case. yet the younger peeps keep bullying the newer kids out of the subcultre. and it makes us very ,VERY afraid to even present ourselves into a lifestyle that once brought us comfort. What does one need to do to be goth? isn't thrifting, music, and all acceptance reguardless of colour and sexuality enough? Do I need to fight in wars I have no saying in? just curious. please educate me in a polite manner. I've had enough attacks headed my way for asking these questions from people around my age. Also pardon if my english is bad or if i worded something bad. I'm not native english and some stuff comes over weird because of it.
thanks for this vid! so informative & thoughtful ♡ i feel like aesthetic trend cycles are also just different ways to vault whiteness & thinness. like it's a new stage to "explore" that & once they've appropriated that style/subculture they move on to the next one.
Im 31 and Im still in off shoot metal punk rocker I still shave my hair in a mohawk mullet sometimes or dye it all different colours all over and sometimes grow a goaty and dye it
To counter this: I think that the variety of styles makes people not believe they have to abide to a specific style that doesn’t represent the complexity of the human mind or entirety of one’s interests and natural change in personality of every study in sociology that has been done Combining them in whichever way you desire could breach beyond micro trends into their end Being alienated when you dont comply while not easily identifying people and being uninterested within your same subculture when asked in depth about topics like economic policies sense of humor or self perception. Or fascinated by the reasons and specific background people can say or do the same as you and it being different Makes social expression harder. Inserting a personality can allow people to find you but not know you in depth and a visual representation of one’s interests would have the same effect People undertrained in having interests taste or identity can fall into a persona (jung) rabbit hole in which they ask everyone else what to look/act like (subconsciously) and it only serves as a social indicator I believe this undermines one’s idea generating and creating potential and only creates stress. But to some’s salvation is another’s end. I naturallypersonally wear different states of mind, emotions or mental philosophies at different times and there is no cohesion other than me liking them. Although once i like something i hardly ever dislike it again and it comes back for me I dislike shopping, I don’t throw clothes away and I have a very specific taste. I need to love something to obtain it, i dislike minimalism and I prefer having abundant clothing. I like modifying and dislike expensive clothes that lack value. I understand how someone undertrained in having interests can not benefit from finding their interests through being exposed to multiple trends What happens when you’re a social type and your main interest is gatherings display and adapting to your environment as well as aesthetic perfection and there is no pleasing interest but what stems from a presentation and magnifies it?
When you adapt to any environment (tao) you can benefit and exploit either. I dislike when my interests trend and they’re a part of my identity, get happy when they pass or people begin criticizing them and they become niche again but when they trend people can label you more easily meet you and understand it’s meaning or something similar, and it allows you to connect with more people and gain reputation thus power, without exerting effort to understand basic people and reduce your abilities
I do not have an aesthetic per se, but I do pull from these to make my own fashion which ever changes, just how I feel it. I also do not go for it if it means absolutely nothing to me.
I really think real subculture fashion died in the 90's. Everything after that has just been a recycled and watered down version of all the fashion subcultures from the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s.
I'm a bit annoyed by this critique. I guess I feel what's missing is the essential truth that even the most trivial followers of trends are often experimenting with style to give voice to identity in a good way and can be encouraged to do so in a culturally sensitive way, no matter what's the trend of the moment or what less thoughtful thing the money machine of fashion is doing with aesthetics. Just because fashion is a money game that runs on hype, doesn't mean the people who love it blindly follow that hype anywhere. They will follow it imperfectly, stumble arround aesthetically, critique one another and we will all be okay. Commersialism hurts core values of subcultures sometimes, and that's a problem, but those values are too strong to be consumed by the cycle of fashion. Subcultures worth have don't die from being commersialized and popularized. They can be contaminated in some ways, but that also means they reach more people and get talked about.
loved this video! very insightful and made me reflect on past and current fashion choices i make. i can't believe you're a small channel ! this video was so well-researched and the quality was great! i subscribed and will look forward to your future videos :)
Wow this really needs more views! I have definitely found particularly since the late-2010s but *especially* after covid that there is now a certain expectation on social media that people adopt an aesthetic rather than develop a personal style. I think a big reason for this is because we went for a while at the start of covid without really seeing people out and about and intermingling our aesthetic choices to create personal style, and this was really capitalized upon by fast fashion companies like Shein etc. Further, it became even harder to pay respects and learn about the people behind certain subcultures and subsequent aesthetics, because we weren't seeing them out and about. For example: it was impossible during covid, at least initially, to go to punk rock shows. Sometimes I feel like I'm "not doing it right" because I have a hard time sticking to just one aesthetic, even though historically people don't really do this, and they just mingle basics and trend/subcultural staples to create their own looks. But looking just one way is so boring! Great video!
I was assigned this exact topic in more hinsight towards tiktok and I'm happy to have found this video because of how well you explained it! Very eye opening
I see the dissolution of personal style online, but do y'all see it in real life too? Personally I don't, I see really strong personal style in my offline life. Maybe this has to do with my personal bubble though...I'm in my mid 20s, and the queer community has a unique relationship with fashion. The more unique you look, the cooler you are perceived. Thrifting, maximalism, feminine, masculine, small clothes, big clothes, colors and textures are all encouraged in queer fashion. Aesthetics, although wide in variety, are VERY closely tied to our subculture. Hm, I'll be thinking about this more.
This is such a great analysis and I'm glad to see it's gaining some algorithmic traction (you had 600 something subscribers when I opened this tab and now a day later I see you're over 800!) 🙏🏼 I doubt this trend of organized fashion drawing on a particular subculture, and in the process basically ruining it in exchange for a quick profit, is going to go anywhere soon. Certainly not in an economic system predicated on continuous growth at any cost. However, I am interested and excited to see further hyper-specification occur among those individuals rejecting consumerism and taking a more DIY approach. I think that as people become more self-aware and tired of the overcommodification of aesthetics, that which companies cannot infiltrate to profit from will become the "currency of the most cool." But of course, that which economic interests don't know about and cannot knock off for profit is an inherently moving target.
To me, true subcultures are based on shared passion for a type of music: punk, goth, hip-hop, metal, indie, rave, jazz, hippie, etc. They also have a set of ethics / politics / values that are shared in the communities. They are based on people getting together regularly in real life at music shows, clubs, parties, etc, and having a network of people that actually knew each other and had a social connection. Cottagecore and Dark Academia were never actually subcultures-- it is modern misuse of the the word "subculture" because I think Gen Z came up at a weird time and sadly didn't get to experience real subcultures-- so they think a subculture is the same as a trend or a meme being passed around. It would be more correct to say that "Cottagecore and Dark Academia" are aesthetic trends. Don't get me wrong, I really love the aesthetic trends of cottage core and dark academia, but they are not subcultures. Not even close. If they were actual subcultures, they would provide regular social events, a slew of contemporary bands, values, and a community. There would be frequent get togethers in real life. I am concerned that real subcultures might barely even exist anymore, as Gen Z is extremely online and maybe don't even go to underground music shows or warehouse parties in real life, at least not in such a way where its the same crowd getting together regularly and getting to know each other. I'm an old timer (Millenial) and we had many thriving subcultures that were communities of people that knew eachother in real life back in the day. Now I'm raising a family and am sadly not connected to the various subcultures anymore, though I really wish I were. I miss having a community. On the other hand, subcultures were always underground. Perhaps they are underground now, and only the insiders know where and what they are, and the mainstream people won't find out until it is commercialized.
Totally agree, but you definitely should’ve been a little meaner here. It’s not fashion anymore it’s trends. If the world was good and we all still had common sense then MAYBE people would just…do what they like without feeling pressured to do what’s trendy. But instead there are so many fools out there who just blindly follow along bc they have no understanding of the fact that their entire personality is based on something they saw online.
History repeats itself. It’s such an unfortunate truth. You made amazing points! I know it’s hard to not talk fast while presenting. It’s common for many people. I recommend taking your time and slowing down a little while you’re speaking. It will make a huge difference in helping you get your points across. Great work!
Love your including relevant and notable music and imagery 😍 this was so meticulously put together! ps. hunger strike by temple of the dog took me back. I was a small child in the 90s and always fantasised that when I grew up I'd dress just like kurt and courtney lol
As someone who listens more than I watch, your flat intonation makes it hard for me to follow you. For eg, I suggest not reading the headings OR having a break of a beat or two before and after reading a heading. Thanks :)
But I'm still a cottagecore girly😭😭 Cottagecore is not dead! I was always more of a dark academia girly tho. But it was learning about these two aesthetics that I came to find out about prep and coquette, with are my two current major aesthetics. Although I'm poor. So I never actually bought or wear any itens of these aesthetics because I live in a 3rd world country🥰🥰 But I'm going to Buenos Aires next year for vacation, so I asked my mom if I could buy any itens at thrift stores and she said yes!! So imma combine the things I like most about these aesthetics into my personal style :) For example: I love the pleated skirts in preppy, or those formal pants in dark academia! Meanwhile I like those delicate itens and pearls in coquette, and the long skirts and dresses in cottagecore! Idk what imma make with this, but I'm gonna try at least
My favorite part is "learn who you are as a person and then decide how you want to look later". It's something I am still learning to do know. I primarily thrift and its so easy to fall into looking for trends at the thrift as well. Also wanted to mention if anyone one else went looking for the mycelium leather the artists name is Aurelie Fontan. I misspelled it as well searching and couldn't find it at first.
“Goth” fashion was inspired by some of the looks by the early bands such as Siouxsie and The Banshees, The Cure, Bauhaus, and Sisters of Mercy. That being said Goth is a music based subculture so if you like goth music you can be goth. I wear a lot of black but they are just regular shirts and jogger sweatpants. I don’t like fishnets, chokers, teased hair, or eyeliner. I wear eyeshadow but I am not going to dye my hair black or paint my face with white paint. I do not want to “look like a goth” because why should I feel forced to look a certain way, I am goth because I love the music. If I have any advice it is to allow yourself to just like things, don’t make one thing your identity, and fashion wise you can take and leave aspects (not counting cultural appropriation).
exactly! its about not conforming to societal expectations of gender and consuermism and embracing the macabre instead of running from it. if we're such non-conformists, its so counterintuitve to expect everyone to conform to a certain visual "look." as long as you appreciate the music, community, and aren't a shit person, you can be goth!
I do like the look, I love the music and for a huge part i stand with goth morals and believes / political views. it's just the what? small part of me that isn't 100% extreme left that is apparently what makes me none goth?
is it wrong to not be 100% politcal or is this truly needed to be a goth? Do I need to throwmyself in every war that has been happening since 2001? Do i need to go around throw paint on art to be goth? cuz that's what i have been hearing lately. that if i'm not focused on every politcal stuff. If I DARE to view things in a grey perspective. that I should not be goth or a cybergoth. and the amount of people that will screen short your words out of context and tell people to avoid you is just....maaaaaaan...
what does one need to do? I'm asking other goths who have been goth way longer than I have. in hope to find a form of hope. because i love the goth subcultre but lately I have faced so many extreme left or right people that i feel like i belong no where and can't even enjoy myself. that i shouldn't listen to any songs or wear any of my clothes. I tried to take a distance from goth and cybergoth but i have been feeling so hollow as if i lost a part of myself. But I don't dare to go back.... afraid of the bullying, I'm to tired to be dealing with bullying from a subcultre i would love to call my home. I"m not among the "normal" people. people who bullied me for over 9 years irl and now the subcultre I turned too for comfort and sense of longing is doing the exact same but digitally. I hear older goths being so relaxed and okay with me but as a 23 yearold you don't really go out for funs with people 60+.
where does one belong? If the place you seek doesn't exist anymore? Am I in the wrong? Am I doing something wrong? Did I miss something? Did I live in an aesthetic this whole time? or is this just media?
It’s just sad that nowadays, many people no longer have their own personal style to present their identity. Now, we see people dress in different types of ‘aesthetics’ that they feel like they have to follow if they’re into it. My stand is this: you do you but if it’s taking over your life and impacts your time, mental well-being and money, let it go.
Thanks for speaking out about this, it was an excellent video! At this point we’re just thrown into a category based on our ‘aesthetic’, just like those “personality tests” and “zodiac signs”.
zodiac signs and astrology have been around for thousands of years tho
@@ep2848 And heighten in the 1970s.
[laughs in goth while watching this]
if goth is dead, i guess i need to tell everyone at the monthly goth night i go to that always gets packed out. don’t look at a few egirls and conclude an entire subculture is dead because of that
@4Tlccas is it not the name of the music genre??? or should i call it post punk for your elder sensitivities. and who’s to say i’m not using egirl derisively. don’t pmo, there are people born past the prime of the 80s who adhere to those diy alternative ideals and i’m sorry you can’t see past your narrow boomer mindset. ironic considering how this is supposed to be an accepting subculture, but don’t even get me started on the racism i’ve encountered from people as old as yourself and as young as me!
anyway, bless your heart for being bitter all up and down these comments. i can see your reply history to others under this video if i click on your profile. get a hobby 🫠
it paints me to see how "self expression" has turned into what it is currently. since a very young age ive been drawn to the punk and goth subcultures, studying their history, listening to the music, and participating in the communities. this has also led me to diy my own battle jackets and crust pants, and buy clothing pieces and accessories and such by small artists and fellow punks/goths. ive also been very into alternative japanese fashions such as lolita, decora, cult party kei, and i like to combine my interest in all of these subcultures and styles and play with them to create outfits i feel comfortable in and reflect who i am.
i definitely feel like my passion and connection to these subcultures and styles is definitely influenced by the fact that i am gay, trans, and autistic. my mere existence and experiences are outside of the norm of most of the world, so i am naturally drawn to these outside expressive groups, styles, and music. like they were made for me and for my comfort, compared to the norm that tries so hard to push me away and make me feel discomforted. seeing these subcultures being twisted into money printers for crapitalism and being eaten up by consumers who dont know where these things come from is so hurtful.
For example, in japan, jirai kei is popular rn. It's based on runaways that ends up in kabukicho, most drink until late, take drugs etc. Basically misfits in depression (i sound rude sorry). People use it as an aesthetic but the origin is very sad and it isn't just a style.
I dont know what the hell is going around.
I think self style has lost completely to a type of aesthetic. As a hip hop lover, this type of Y2k aesthetic, tattoos, dye hair, baggy clothes and lots more… Is just the same for every one. I see every R&B, trap, soul artist look very similar.
Other thing that i dont understand is the facial and body surgery. It seems in 2022 every one wants to be a bratz.
I Love your talk, thanks for sharing 💜🍓
i think you just materialized a thought i was really stuck with - personal style and aesthetic are separate. i started feeling a little pressured to dress and be perceived as my aesthetic and the more i tried to adopt the aesthetic, the more i felt like an imposter.. which took the fun out of the creative subculture. not falling into that again - especially for social media clout
This was suchhhh a good video! It's really interesting, and I'e notice on platforms like tiktok that there are a lot of videos pushing back against the way we view subcultures as aesthetics in relation to the last few years- I've noticed in the alternative area (ie. punk, goth etc) that there's a lot of upset towards people that are now looking back on when they tried 'e-girl/alt' for a year with shame, it's upsetting to see people use it as a a trending aesthetic as you said, only throw it away when they're done with it, ignoring the actual history and people behind it. I think especially with younger people who have less of a sense of identity, aesthetics are a way to try out different aspects of yourself, but it's being done from a superficial perspective rather than being introspective and genuinely considering who they are as people.
that is so true! it's weird because when I was younger it wasn't for show. If you were emo, you were that to the core, the same way with scene, etc. I get doing things for fun but it's just seems draining somehow.
@@beckjuice8687 Yes I couldn’t find the right terms to describe all of that! Like back then there have been emos, goths, hipsters, … but now it seems like all these subcultures completely died and things like the e girl came up, and they take so much from the old emo style and everything.
@aofmual go read my comment again
i struggle with this because ive been into the cyber y2k late 90s new millenium since 2012 when it was popular in tumblr based off the music you listen to. im 23 now and i still love rave music im actually trying to become a dj. so for me my style has always been a direct representation of the music i like ixed together. my issue was when the cyber subversive basics, post-apocalyptic style came about and i was watching fashion videos about not giving into micro trends and i started having an existential crisis because now i was questioning if i was falling victim into the micro trend cycle. i then tried to reimagine my style but didnt feel myself. i stopped paying attention and kept DJing and focusing on my music again and naturally my style reverted back. ive experienced the wave of the cyber aesthetics come in and out at least twice in the last 5 years
@4Tlccas yeah if you read you can see it’s a revival of 90s y2k which is a recreation of retrofuturism in the mid century. i obviously wasn’t alive back then lmao so i came about in the 2012 wave.
one reason I had to stop using tiktok was because of this. i’ve always used my clothes as a form of self expression, but for years i didn’t have a strong sense of self to express. the peak of feeling insecure in my sense of identity coincided with me buying into tiktok microtrends the most, and it was negatively affecting the way i thought about fashion and engaged in consumerism. once i started to come into my gender queerness and regained confidence in who i was, i started to just buy and wear things that i felt the most myself in , not just what i thought looked cool (i’m not above being Influenced tho, sometimes i just actually really fw what happens to be on trend). i try to tune out tiktok because, even if what i’m wearing is microtrend #8 of the month, it’ll still feel personal. i don’t need the algorithm to push some random style on me that fast fashion + vintage resellers are going to capitalize on heavy… this video was really really great btw :)
I feel sorry for young people trying to explore their identity through fashion because they grew up with the super confusing social media landscape. I think they're just as susceptible to the societal, cultural and political antagonists that people before them faced. I think they also face a whole lot of scrutiny about the way they dress too which isn't fair imo. I admittedly watch a lot of these young RUclipsrs and they have kinda glossy lifestyles but they seem super fucking lonely and i kinda feel for them. Not to say they're all victims but they've just grown up with a different set of rules / tools for self- expression (as you've so cleverly put in this vid!). I feel really old writing this lol. Anyway thanks for making the brain do a bit of thinking haha. Great vid.
I was nodding my head as I read your comment and I’m now feeling old too 😅. You’re absolutely right though, gen z has it tough with genuine self expression due to cancel culture, etc (I see it with my younger relatives and feel bad).
If it’s any consolation, I don’t think most people are like this. When you’re online a lot it’s easy to think that everyone’s acting a particular way but, as someone who I guess is part of gen z ( 🤮 hate that term 😂) your average person isn’t dogmatically adhering to aesthetics and trends. Like yes the internet has a massive influence on irl trends but I don’t think it’s as pervasive as we may think. Most people Ik aren’t prominent figures on social media and don’t seem to have this issue- especially cos it seems like a rather expensive issue to have- at least where I am but maybe elsewhere its a lot more pronounced.
This is a little bit of a nitpick and I'm not sure how this is viewed outside of the Nordics where I live. Here the japandi feels more like the continuation of the cultural exchange between two very different cultures that still somehow manage to share similar tastes and sensibilities. We find it intriguing so we blend the two, at least that is the attitude I've seen. More like a positive celebration of two cultures with different history but similar values than cultural appropriation of either.
I can admit that aesthetics can help lead someone towards finding their style, but it can also lead to a conformist path. I've seen people feel inadequate or confused because they cannot find "their aesthetic" or they like many aesthetics and cannot chose which one to settle on. The belief that one needs to stick within a single ridig style is too prominent. I think we need to teach adolescents that they are allowed to cross the lines and combine different styles so they can properly express their individuality
this was a really good video. its interesting to look at now that the hype of the 2020 “alt girl” has died down many people are going right back to bullying people who are a part of punk/goth/grunge/etc. subcultures. i know ive seen a lot of “looking back and cringing at my alt phase” videos, and these people redid their entire life around this style divorced from the politics and music that originated only to throw it all away after one summer. even “core” aesthetics like goblincore, cottagecore, etc. have become watered down to just the fashion, when looking at it even just in 2018 there was often deeper reasons for it. you mentioned in the video how cottagecore went from what was often an attempt to escape capitalism and help save the earth to just the dresses, and i personally saw goblincore go from anticapitalism and rejection of what is “pretty” or “perfect” in a way that felt very similar to grunge to basically just the colors green and brown. i grew up with a dad who is into a lot of alternative music from many different subcultures, and i also was part of online movements such as goblincore from fairly early on. it is truly a weird experience to watch as the rest of the world starts dressing like you for a single summer before going right back to seeing you as weird. i’m not gonna claim i was perfect or never fell into this, but its definitely an interesting thing to think about.
I'm happy the algorithm recommended you. This was a great video.
I think it is possible to find a subculture that you feel you identify with and actually want to engage with long term.
The issue is that if you are only looking to monetize or use the look/aesthetic to stand out from the rest (Ariana/ Miley/ Gwen), then you just hop from one 'look' to another without trying to understand the origins or the culture it came from. You don't ever admit that it's just a marketing ploy. You just act like this is 'the real you' (cough cough Akwafina) until it financially benefits you to change.
I think the people who truly engage with the cultures and subcultures won't be trying their hardest to seem like the 'face' of it. They just belong to it.
Meanwhile the people who want to stick with whatever is popular just bounce from aesthetic to aesthetic in an attempt to seem 'relevant' and 'interesting'.
How do you only have 48 subscribers?! I am so excited to see what else you feel drawn to talk about and see you grow as a creator.
great video. when I first started hearing about these aesthetics I thought it was so fun and pretty innocent. but then things seemed to just...get out of hand. it's like how when I was younger, you got labelled a goth, punk, skater, prep, nerd, scene, emo, etc. but to another level. on one hand, younger people are experimenting with their identities and sense of self and if this is one way to do it, cool. but it's also important to remember that it isn't everything.
Oh! I'm glad this came up on my recommended! this has got me thinking about how often "aesthetics" are used as shortcuts to personal style. I get how people get sucked into it, but it's much better to do the hard yards first and get a personal style, rather than cycling through trends and concepts - that's wheel's only spinning faster these days too
Absolutely the internet and social media especially has sped this up too. It's sped up everything greatly. I'm old enough to remember time before the internet and life was...stable. Sometimes that meant boring (heck, often it meant boring, because i was a kid), but it also meant assurance, that you'd have something to return to. Now, everything changes so rapidly it's draining - mentally, emotionally, and financially if not super careful.
OMG THANK YOU. I've been looking for this video!
I think about these themes EVERY DAY as a 32 year old Black Millennial who's been alt/ subcultured since I was 10.. I got into my ~* look as a BYPRODUCT of the alt life I was living and my interests. To see now, the style I spent decades curating for myself being mass produced and reduced down to an "aesthetic" feels so commercial and insulting.
This video is spot on and so necessary. I worry so much for digital natives, who have the entire internet to influence them at such an early age.. where it used to be you, the media sources you sought after, the company you kept, and your region that influenced people just a decade or so ago.
30 year old former scene kid here, and I call this the "commodification of alt." I worked at hot topic years ago and kids would be dressed like I was back in 2005, so I'd mention a band to them. They'd have no idea. Not judging those kids, but it surprised me so much to learn that now, the look comes *first* whereas in our formative years, the music, art, lit/poetry came first and the styles followed.
As someone who is in the alternative/punk subculture, I think the thing that only bothers me is that such a huge part of punk and alternative styles is to thrift things, to not buy corporate, to dyi things, make things your own (even a bit of critique to the people in the punk subculture, who can be too absorbed with the look and music to realize the look isn't really that punk. It's the attitude and the mindset that's punk. I do think there are 'punk' looks out there right now, but it's not what most people think of with punk).
To think of what you buy. Not buy what's in at the next fast fashion store.
Besides that, I am kind of happy that the interest in the aesthetic/look, is what gets people interested in the subculture, and learn the history of it, where it came from and what it actually stands for. I've definitely seen the rise of people joining the subculture again. But it can still be weird because social media is so visually, a lot of people just think it's a look, not a subculture, especially for the people who aren't really interested in anything more than the look. I've definitely heard the same from people who are gothic.
But I do think the hypes around these aesthetics will die down in a while again for other looks.
I do have a question for you tho. What if you for like 80% or 90% agree with a subcultre but the 10% of you that doesn't or has different views. Would it be right for the subcultre to bully you out of it?
because I've been seeing a LOT of stuff on social media in which people who have a grey perspective (not right nor left view people. usually leaning more one of the sides) getting bullied out of a subcultre. or people from the same subcultre who are devided into more groups and each having other view just battling one another claiming "their view" is the right view. Are subcultes that strict? Are subcultres soposed to be that strict? Is there no space for induvidual point of views as long as the majority is the same?
I always wondered this. Cuz this is what is keeping me away from a subcultre. the constant fighting, fragaile people who bully their own people into being 100% like them. The selfexsperession in some of these is truly gone. but this is what I have seen nowadays. maybe you have some more insight on this?
A quick note: not Romanian, it was an appropriation or Roma, or Romani culture (and bohemian, like you said). Rroma people are not inherently Romanians (the people from Romania), they were actually enslaved for a long time in Romania, so while I understand it’s a simple linguistic mistake, it can be a huge and painful conflation to make.
I don’t think subculture is dead I think we fall into the failure of realizing that truly being apart of a subculture is to be apart of them in real life. A lot of alternative subcultures are based in music and being apart of the music and diy scene is still alive. Online subcultures definitely fall into the pandering or vapid nature of being an aesthetic. But a lot of subcultures are real spaces on real life
As someone who has been into punk and post-punk since late 90's, I appreciate your clarifying of Kurt Cobain's place in the evolution of the genres (calling Cobain "grunge" is like calling Jesus a Christian... he was Jewish... and Cobain was punk).
I also appreciate you bringing up the impact of X-Ray Spex and Siouxsie and the Banshees, the Stooges, etc. Usually people say "sex pistols" and "the cure" and leave it at that.
Well done! You clearly did your research! 👏
As a mexican who was born and has lived their whole life in CDMX, I was a bit scared that the whole "little mexican girl core" on tiktok would result in even more cultural appropiation from big brands but I think we bullied those who took this "aesthetic" seriously too much and it endend up dying and becoming a meme which I think was a bit mean but also kinda fun
This was such a well researched piece and a convincing essay. I personally have hope that aesthetics won't last because I believe fashion is a cycle with updates.
I always liked the idea of having an aesthetic that I could follow because it was so much easier than trying to explain, "I'm eclectic as fuck." But as I've gotten older, I've just embraced the "I'm an eclectic rando who usually looks like the fun weird art teacher" and I'm okay with that. I really did enjoy your video and the drive into fashion history. I always find it super fascinating.
Really good video, I think you managed to keep it focused while still giving background info and details about different subcultures. As a non-native English speaker, though, I had a bit difficulties to follow what you were saying due to the evenness of your tone.
You totally nailed it. Thank you for addressing this issue. I had been feeling like the last great era for personal style was the 80s for a long time now, and nobody has addressed that until you.
This is the video I needed. So refreshing and so well thought out. Thank you
10:41 It's the band "Nova Twins"
Totally here for your critique of subculture and ethnic cultural exploitation
But I am just…super cautious of saying what I wear is how I identify/is my identity, particularly as our understandings of ourselves shifts.
hyperspeed consumerism is at the crux of it all. not only has culture and ways of living been co-opted and packaged into easily consumable 'aesthetics' for people to put on and take off each day, we are turning ourselves into instruments of marketing. we market ourselves as items through our social image and appearances, and derive our value from that instead of from within nd in our own tastes/preferences/interests. its so bleak and i wish i could just do something without the underlying forethought of how its going to make me come across or be received and what that spells for me in the grand scheme of social relationships and my place in it all
I was looking for a video on this a few months ago and couldn't find any for some reason. So happy your video came up on my recommended, it's so well done!
This video is fantastic, you made some excellent points and I can tell you know what you’re talking about. You earned a sub today.
thank you, i appreciate it!
Great video, super interesting! I hope the algorithm spreads this video, you deserve more attention. I have to say though, it was the japanese who made the japandi-style because they liked scandi style, not scandinavians taking some japanese styles and disregarding others
Yes, Japanese themselves also have done a lot of cultural appropriation, I'm not against it.
But Lolita style, Anime and even their school uniforms are inspired by European and American culture. Singapore, combines very eastern and western elements with their several ethnic groups despite being so small.
Mexico also is a combination of Spanish and Indigenous cultures.
Appropriation is part of culture forming.
This video is so well made and you’re so eloquent !!
As an old school goth,,, YUP YUP YUP, so glad someone said this shit.
I have a question for you as (a semi baby bat.) is it needed to be 100% into political things to be a goth? Do I need to be 100% left wing to be goth? Cuz I'm on a grey perspective leaning more left. But people have been bullying so many other people out of the subcultre for not being 100% into their belives and pov's.
Am I wrong to have personal different taste in example: people i like to date. Or does my personal taste truly need to involve everyone otherwise I set up a "unhealthy" form of beauty standarts that isn't goth like. Do I need to keep my eyes out on EVERY war that has been happening lately? or can I also focus on my school, job, etc? Do I NEED to 100% mix myself in every political issue to be goth?
cuz that's what a lot of people have been saying recently and it's confusing the fok out of me. since a lot of old goths and such tell me that isn't the case. yet the younger peeps keep bullying the newer kids out of the subcultre. and it makes us very ,VERY afraid to even present ourselves into a lifestyle that once brought us comfort. What does one need to do to be goth? isn't thrifting, music, and all acceptance reguardless of colour and sexuality enough? Do I need to fight in wars I have no saying in?
just curious. please educate me in a polite manner. I've had enough attacks headed my way for asking these questions from people around my age.
Also pardon if my english is bad or if i worded something bad. I'm not native english and some stuff comes over weird because of it.
thanks for this vid! so informative & thoughtful ♡ i feel like aesthetic trend cycles are also just different ways to vault whiteness & thinness. like it's a new stage to "explore" that & once they've appropriated that style/subculture they move on to the next one.
Im 31 and Im still in off shoot metal punk rocker I still shave my hair in a mohawk mullet sometimes or dye it all different colours all over and sometimes grow a goaty and dye it
To counter this: I think that the variety of styles makes people not believe they have to abide to a specific style that doesn’t represent the complexity of the human mind or entirety of one’s interests and natural change in personality of every study in sociology that has been done
Combining them in whichever way you desire could breach beyond micro trends into their end
Being alienated when you dont comply while not easily identifying people and being uninterested within your same subculture when asked in depth about topics like economic policies sense of humor or self perception. Or fascinated by the reasons and specific background people can say or do the same as you and it being different
Makes social expression harder. Inserting a personality can allow people to find you but not know you in depth and a visual representation of one’s interests would have the same effect
People undertrained in having interests taste or identity can fall into a persona (jung) rabbit hole in which they ask everyone else what to look/act like (subconsciously) and it only serves as a social indicator
I believe this undermines one’s idea generating and creating potential and only creates stress. But to some’s salvation is another’s end.
I naturallypersonally wear different states of mind, emotions or mental philosophies at different times and there is no cohesion other than me liking them. Although once i like something i hardly ever dislike it again and it comes back for me
I dislike shopping, I don’t throw clothes away and I have a very specific taste. I need to love something to obtain it, i dislike minimalism and I prefer having abundant clothing. I like modifying and dislike expensive clothes that lack value.
I understand how someone undertrained in having interests can not benefit from finding their interests through being exposed to multiple trends
What happens when you’re a social type and your main interest is gatherings display and adapting to your environment as well as aesthetic perfection and there is no pleasing interest but what stems from a presentation and magnifies it?
When you adapt to any environment (tao) you can benefit and exploit either. I dislike when my interests trend and they’re a part of my identity, get happy when they pass or people begin criticizing them and they become niche again but when they trend people can label you more easily meet you and understand it’s meaning or something similar, and it allows you to connect with more people and gain reputation thus power, without exerting effort to understand basic people and reduce your abilities
I do not have an aesthetic per se, but I do pull from these to make my own fashion which ever changes, just how I feel it. I also do not go for it if it means absolutely nothing to me.
you put all the thoughts ive been having the past couple of years into words
Great video, can’t wait for your channel to blow up! 🎉
I really think real subculture fashion died in the 90's. Everything after that has just been a recycled and watered down version of all the fashion subcultures from the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s.
I'm a bit annoyed by this critique. I guess I feel what's missing is the essential truth that even the most trivial followers of trends are often experimenting with style to give voice to identity in a good way and can be encouraged to do so in a culturally sensitive way, no matter what's the trend of the moment or what less thoughtful thing the money machine of fashion is doing with aesthetics. Just because fashion is a money game that runs on hype, doesn't mean the people who love it blindly follow that hype anywhere. They will follow it imperfectly, stumble arround aesthetically, critique one another and we will all be okay. Commersialism hurts core values of subcultures sometimes, and that's a problem, but those values are too strong to be consumed by the cycle of fashion. Subcultures worth have don't die from being commersialized and popularized. They can be contaminated in some ways, but that also means they reach more people and get talked about.
loved this video! very insightful and made me reflect on past and current fashion choices i make. i can't believe you're a small channel ! this video was so well-researched and the quality was great! i subscribed and will look forward to your future videos :)
Very eloquently put, I really enjoyed how you explored this topic! Can’t wait to see what other videos you’ll make :)
Amazing video. Keep it up ur channel has crazy potential
Your videos are so nicely executed, I wish RUclips algorithm would draw more attention to 'em😍
This was such an amazing, thought-provoking video. You put so many thoughts in my head into words. Thank you.
well done ! really helps understand so what's going on between subcultures and aesthetics
Wow this really needs more views! I have definitely found particularly since the late-2010s but *especially* after covid that there is now a certain expectation on social media that people adopt an aesthetic rather than develop a personal style. I think a big reason for this is because we went for a while at the start of covid without really seeing people out and about and intermingling our aesthetic choices to create personal style, and this was really capitalized upon by fast fashion companies like Shein etc. Further, it became even harder to pay respects and learn about the people behind certain subcultures and subsequent aesthetics, because we weren't seeing them out and about. For example: it was impossible during covid, at least initially, to go to punk rock shows.
Sometimes I feel like I'm "not doing it right" because I have a hard time sticking to just one aesthetic, even though historically people don't really do this, and they just mingle basics and trend/subcultural staples to create their own looks. But looking just one way is so boring!
Great video!
I liked the video and subscribed! on your next video would you please mix the volume higher? It was hard to hear, but I like what you said!
This was such an informative, good video. Thank you for making this! :)
Love everything you said. Small correction tho, at 9:37 it's the Rromani people, not Romanian. Small but important distinction
I was assigned this exact topic in more hinsight towards tiktok and I'm happy to have found this video because of how well you explained it! Very eye opening
that means a lot, thank you!
I see the dissolution of personal style online, but do y'all see it in real life too? Personally I don't, I see really strong personal style in my offline life.
Maybe this has to do with my personal bubble though...I'm in my mid 20s, and the queer community has a unique relationship with fashion. The more unique you look, the cooler you are perceived. Thrifting, maximalism, feminine, masculine, small clothes, big clothes, colors and textures are all encouraged in queer fashion. Aesthetics, although wide in variety, are VERY closely tied to our subculture. Hm, I'll be thinking about this more.
This is such a great analysis and I'm glad to see it's gaining some algorithmic traction (you had 600 something subscribers when I opened this tab and now a day later I see you're over 800!) 🙏🏼 I doubt this trend of organized fashion drawing on a particular subculture, and in the process basically ruining it in exchange for a quick profit, is going to go anywhere soon. Certainly not in an economic system predicated on continuous growth at any cost. However, I am interested and excited to see further hyper-specification occur among those individuals rejecting consumerism and taking a more DIY approach. I think that as people become more self-aware and tired of the overcommodification of aesthetics, that which companies cannot infiltrate to profit from will become the "currency of the most cool." But of course, that which economic interests don't know about and cannot knock off for profit is an inherently moving target.
I love the topic! 💖
To me, true subcultures are based on shared passion for a type of music: punk, goth, hip-hop, metal, indie, rave, jazz, hippie, etc. They also have a set of ethics / politics / values that are shared in the communities. They are based on people getting together regularly in real life at music shows, clubs, parties, etc, and having a network of people that actually knew each other and had a social connection. Cottagecore and Dark Academia were never actually subcultures-- it is modern misuse of the the word "subculture" because I think Gen Z came up at a weird time and sadly didn't get to experience real subcultures-- so they think a subculture is the same as a trend or a meme being passed around. It would be more correct to say that "Cottagecore and Dark Academia" are aesthetic trends. Don't get me wrong, I really love the aesthetic trends of cottage core and dark academia, but they are not subcultures. Not even close. If they were actual subcultures, they would provide regular social events, a slew of contemporary bands, values, and a community. There would be frequent get togethers in real life. I am concerned that real subcultures might barely even exist anymore, as Gen Z is extremely online and maybe don't even go to underground music shows or warehouse parties in real life, at least not in such a way where its the same crowd getting together regularly and getting to know each other. I'm an old timer (Millenial) and we had many thriving subcultures that were communities of people that knew eachother in real life back in the day. Now I'm raising a family and am sadly not connected to the various subcultures anymore, though I really wish I were. I miss having a community. On the other hand, subcultures were always underground. Perhaps they are underground now, and only the insiders know where and what they are, and the mainstream people won't find out until it is commercialized.
Short, precise and explains very well👌 this vid is a gem
this is just BASED
@4Tlccas dude are you gonna reply to everyone on this video? Take a day off
Totally agree, but you definitely should’ve been a little meaner here. It’s not fashion anymore it’s trends. If the world was good and we all still had common sense then MAYBE people would just…do what they like without feeling pressured to do what’s trendy. But instead there are so many fools out there who just blindly follow along bc they have no understanding of the fact that their entire personality is based on something they saw online.
History repeats itself. It’s such an unfortunate truth. You made amazing points!
I know it’s hard to not talk fast while presenting. It’s common for many people. I recommend taking your time and slowing down a little while you’re speaking. It will make a huge difference in helping you get your points across. Great work!
Love your including relevant and notable music and imagery 😍 this was so meticulously put together! ps. hunger strike by temple of the dog took me back. I was a small child in the 90s and always fantasised that when I grew up I'd dress just like kurt and courtney lol
top tier 🥹✨
loved this video
Excellent, well researched and well thought out. (Please talk a little slower!)
great video!
I LOVE THIS VIDEO!! ♥
Just found this video now and it’s really great! Subscribed
As someone who listens more than I watch, your flat intonation makes it hard for me to follow you. For eg, I suggest not reading the headings OR having a break of a beat or two before and after reading a heading. Thanks :)
New subscriber! Loved the video!
fascinating O_O
But I'm still a cottagecore girly😭😭
Cottagecore is not dead!
I was always more of a dark academia girly tho. But it was learning about these two aesthetics that I came to find out about prep and coquette, with are my two current major aesthetics. Although I'm poor. So I never actually bought or wear any itens of these aesthetics because I live in a 3rd world country🥰🥰
But I'm going to Buenos Aires next year for vacation, so I asked my mom if I could buy any itens at thrift stores and she said yes!! So imma combine the things I like most about these aesthetics into my personal style :)
For example: I love the pleated skirts in preppy, or those formal pants in dark academia! Meanwhile I like those delicate itens and pearls in coquette, and the long skirts and dresses in cottagecore!
Idk what imma make with this, but I'm gonna try at least
very good video!! exited to see more from u :))
subcultures never die
🐚💠🧜🏾♀️😊
Excellent the best great vid
Glad you enjoyed it
Good job! 😍
ami the only one who thinks it doesn't quite fit right when a white woman wears really huge hoop earrings? Let me know if my perception is incorrect.
Appropriation was mentioned way to many times in the video 🙄 boho dresses coming from history is clearly an appreciation.
my god you sound so sad
no hate, just an observation
zoom out the camera a bit, i almost got jumpscared i swear.
8:41