Ep. 22 - PUSHING THE LIMITS: 16' TRAILER SAILER IN 37kts!!!!!!
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- Опубликовано: 9 сен 2024
- No music, no fancy editing, no Banana’s in Bilge Water cook ups…just two Salty Blokes pushing the limits of a 1993 Com-Pac 16XL on the River Derwent, Hobart…
Jimmy’s Sails & Canvas: jimmyscanvas.c...
ePropulsion: www.epropulsio...
Waterspeed (the app on Mat's watch): waterspeedapp....
Salty Merch: smallcrafttasm...
This just goes to show that in Hobart the conditions have to be cyclonic before someone will not go sailing. I remember a comment made by a former Queenslander who had moved to Hobart that in Queensland when the wind hits 25 knots everyone goes ashore, in Hobart everyone goes sailing.
@@peterlovett5841 ha,so true. Though it was pretty quiet out on the water. But it was a weekday...
I have learned more in this video than most of the others I've seen. Would like to see an update on the changes and a run down on what rigging is needed.
I can't tell you how much I enjoy these videos and glad to see this subject covered! I've always felt as though these boats would do well with a smaller head sail for really windy conditions but never knew what size to have made. I've been using a jib downhaul for a couple years now with great success, I sure wouldn't want to be on the foredeck in conditions like these!
I rigged a downhaul on my jib for the exact same reason.
I sail a Precision 18 which has the same 1,100 lbs displacement as your ComPac 16…but with 100 lbs less ballast and more sail area (145 sq ft with a SA/displacement ratio of 21.81). I sail in the Rocky Mountains where it is quite gusty…so I added a second reef and a custom hanked-on 80% (#4) jib which pairs very well with the double-reefed main and keeps her well-balanced. A kicking strap would be nice for controlling mainsail twist and a backstay to add some aft mast bend and prevent that inversion. Great sailing!
I have found the Compac 16 sails well with less main and the 110 jib. I have a set of heavy Doyle sails. The main has three reef points. The boat is very manageable under third reef and jib at 20-22 knots. It will cruise along at 5.5 knots (with aftermarket foil rudder). I have a storm jib. It’s never been out of the bag. Rig a little spinnaker for this boat. It will zip along down wind. Have a great time out there!
Interesting because that's completely the opposite of what we experienced.
@@SmallCraftTasmania-ms4sx Mine is a 1991 so it has the head sail moved forward 11 inches. Same as this one? Admittedly I’m not an expert on how the extra 11 inches changed the handling, because I have never sailed the Mark 1. Moving the jib sheets inside the stays seemed better to me. I am interested to see what you figure out. Always open to new ways of doing things.
Do you have a picture of your third reef? I'd be interested to see where your sailmaker has put that extra deep reef. Thank you.
@@SmallCraftTasmania-ms4sx I’d love to but I am looking at the sail and realizing I am a liar liar pants on fire. The heavier fabric Doyle set of sails that I prefer is two reef points. Not three. The first is about 27 inches up from the foot the second reef point is 56 inches up. This main has 4 partial battens. The 2nd reef reduces the foot to 60 inches and the luff is reduced to 120 inches. The reduced sail has 3 battens still in play. Sorry to lead you astray. Despite misremembering the reef points, my recollection this boat does well under reduced main sail stands. Hope the measurements help.
Jeez! Well salty.
Looked like a ripper of a day. Great video. I love seeing what our 16s can handle!
I've played 5 sec of the video and I think the radio in the first shot has to be the winner here! I LOVE it.
I like my radios too!
Great video! I learned to sail on a CP16. I remember regularly exceeding 6kts in high winds, but I didn’t check wind speed forecasts back then until I also lost all rudder control one rough day 😅
Such a capable little boat! Have recently moved up to her big sister, the 19 in order to accommodate a couple of kids.
@@SvNautilusSFL those 19's look pretty nice. I am super impressed with the 16, but it would be tight with a couple of kids overnight.
Epic sailing and a great video! Well done 👍
What a hoot!!!
Thank you for this episode. I have a Pirate 17 with a swing keel. 110% Jib, I think, and a storm sail. I have 2 reefs in the main. Saying all this I'm new to sailing and still finding my feet. I used to sail a Laser as a youth but with limited experience. You gave me some good information today, thank you very much.
Sounds like a sensible sail wardrobe for stronger winds.
Intense!
thanks for a real sailing vid ! love that compac. tho lucky you were not in more open waters...got caught in 20-30kts in my 16fter with 1-1.5 mtr semi breaking waves , could not sail to windward in those waves and was glad for a flat out 6hp ob to smash back to shelter over 2 hours . Never felt in real danger tho...
@@brazil8617 Sounds unpleasant. Open water would have gotten dangerous very quickly. Best to sort stuff out in flat water with strong winds, before you add strong winds and big waves...
That looked great fun. Will be even better with decent sails and a rudder the right shape and size. Lee helm reaching has to be more the rudder than the sails don't you think? Great little ship when properly sorted ❤
I think it's a combination of many things. The mast is a long way forward on this design, having no vang also doesn't help.
It will be very interesting to try her with the new sails.
Love the series, I’m waiting for you guys to add some better sail controls. It will be interesting to see how much more comfortable the boat will be in a big breeze.
i can confirm, not being a sailor, that dinghy sailing maybe something, if i take it on, will be done in calm waters and a little breeze and one sail lol. i admire the experience and appreciate the knowledge shown on this channel, even though a lot of terminology goes above my head I'm sure I will get my head around it eventually . Frank from Sydney
DO IT!
Epic! And a great test. You both probably know (but also for readers) ... setting up a block below the jib and a downhaul that goes from cockipit to that block through the hanks and is attached to the head reduces the need to go forward. A more powerful vang/kicker might help flip the mast inversion.
Thanks Mik. Definitely keen on a strong kicker. Though the gooseneck isn't especially strong.
The downhaul we had rigged was very handy. Though it didn't go right to the head of the jib. Also modito the spreaders might help stabilise the middle of the mast.
Thanks Mik! When we get the new sails we'll play with a vang. The gooseneck is the same as the Eclipse from memory and she had a vang.
A wild ride... great to watch 😂
Looks like new sails, added sail controls, and a redesign rubber are in order.
Big roach main with full battens, it will hold its shape better and give more control. Plus you need a vang or traveller for that main
Our thoughts exactly. Matt is ordering a fully battened big roach main.
My Welsford Sweet Pea(17.5 ft) sails very well with just the main upwind or down but gets heavy on a reach. I have the same problem with too much power in the jib but it’s rigged with the furling jib as the forestay so I can’t replace it easily, or reef it. 3 reefs in the main, though. It’s fine up to 25 knots with 1 reef, no jib. I haven’t tried the third reef yet. Well done for filming this. You could try a Cunningham and closer sheeting angle on the jib to flatten it.
I like the sweet peas. I take it she is the bermudian rigged version not the gaff yawl?
The boat went a bit dead without any headsail. But the conditions were very gusty. We need to go out in slightly more moderate and steady day and do some more testing.
@@bentucker5009 yes, it’s the Bermudan sloop version. Yup, when it’s that strong you can’t really tell much except how hard you can hang on!
I sail a similar boat, a Sparrow 16. I have been in winds over 30 knots. I can confirm that having a second reef for the main and a jib downhaul are great to have.
Regarding the reef, I'd highly recommend rigging a Gerr downhaul as it negates the need go to the foredeck to secure the jib once it is doused.
I haven't played with them but it could be worth a go. I assume you mean the system that pulls the clew forward to the tack when you pull it down. We used similar systems on the square riggers I sailed on, and they helped tame big heavy sails.
How do you run it on your boat?
@@bentucker5009 Yes, that is how my Gerr downhaul is rigged. Mine runs down from the head of the sail through three or so dedicated grommets on the luff of the jib down about halfway. There it passes through a small block attached to a grommet at the luff to a dedicated grommet just inside of the clew. From their it goes back to a second small block a few feet below the first block and then down to a third block attached to the forestay anchor plate just below the the tack of the jib. From the second block down, the downhaul line does not go through any more grommets.
From the anchor plate block, the downhaul line runs aft through a couple fairleads to the aft end of the port side of the cabin where it runs through a fairlead that is part of a cam-cleat. I learned the hard way that these fairleads required stainless steel eyes, otherwise the friction from the line I was using would cut a groove in the plastic.
The nice thing about the Gerr system is that in a pinch, to depower the jib, all you have to do is release the jib sheets and pull on the down haul and lock it in the cam cleat. This gathers the jib at the forestay. This allows the extra step of releasing the jib halyard to be done at a later time if is short.
For my 85 heavy weather jib, I use a simple downhaul as it is small enough to stay gathered at the bow.
The two blocks on the luff have sheaves that are about 3/8" diameter and the one at the anchor plate has a diameter of about 5/8" to 3/4" diameter. The downhaul line diameter is about 1/8".
Thanks for the video!
@idaho_girl thanks for the excellent description. Matts boat would be a good candidate for it as the jib foot doesn't overlap the mast much, and there isn't much on deck for stray lines to catch on.
The simple luff downhaul we have really earned it's keep on the day. But it really needed to be tied further up towards the head of the sail, and ideally some netting and bungy tiedowns on the foredeck under the lifelines. To help contain the sail.
I think the mast has to be raked aft some. That may eliminate your lee helm.
I sailed my Siren 17 in similar coditions. My usual pracice in weather like that was to leave the jib in the sail bag. I sailed main only more times than I can count.
The Suren 17 has a swing keel of only 140 lbs. But, by adjusting its rake, I could get excellent balance with main only. I used to count the turns of the winch crank.
@@bobcornwell403 Hopefully a bit more mast rake will help a lot. As will the bigger, more roachy main thats on order.
A good case for rolling reefing on the jib!!!!
Though the normal small boat wire luff system might not have worked properly in the bigger puffs. And nothing is worse than a half rolled jib flogging. A proper solid reefing system would have been nice, but they are hard to find for small boats.
Very cool 👍
While i am a competant sailor its nice to see folk who understand the nuiance of rigg design and its effect. The off the beach racing fraternity dont always want to share what gives them an advantage, stability or sailability. I sail in westernport and their not always a place to run too yet love the sence of adventure and pushing to find limits.
@lightprint348 there is definitely a lot of little tweaks that make a big difference. I am not an expert on them but Ive got a rough idea of the basics. Its hard on a boat like this thats very simple but lacks a lot of more modern 'high tek' refinments in the rig. Racing is very useful to refine and improve performance in most conditions.
WELL DONE. We did the same in a Hartley TS16,though only 25knts Have sailed in 30 on port philip bay. We don't have reef points on our mains'l
Id be curious as to how the H16 goes in those conditions. I am guessing you drop the jib and flatten the main as much as possible and feather it in the puffs. Unless you are going downind and can drop the main and run under jib only.
I've always liked those Hartleys. Planing in the puffs also helps depower the boat. It would be a fun Ride!
wow that is great going in a lightweight boat - I had a figlass ts16 called a quicksilver that coped with 20-30 but i would not try it in a lighter ply TS-well done !
@@brazil8617 I was on the main, I'm chicken. Always watching for gusts and quick to depower. My son got a little aramed at seeing water go past the cabin window. The Ts16 is quite a stable little boat.
SUPERB video, great seamanship, your skills put me to shame,
Thanks.
Why no roller reefing jib? Even my 1977 wayfarer has it so you can Balance the main
I see you do not have a feed slot Gate installed. I use a custom MastGate that allows the boom to be pushed above the feed slot and to be able to pack the sail on the boom.
I created and installed a '"Variable reefing" system & a custom "QuickRelease TrackStop" under my sliding boom. I am able to reef the main in 30 seconds.
I also have the option to push the boom high above my head to perform "Reversed Reef sailing"
ruclips.net/video/Cvpxon8mUP8/видео.htmlsi=gl3SmpPjRi605kuA
I am impressed how well you did your video while under high winds. Your boat did not cause water to splash over the bow.
Great clip looked pretty "fresh"talking about a bigger main with a bit of roach, I'm no expert but I thought roachy battened sails on smaller boats can cause lee helm, is there any truth to that?
Its more likely a roachy main would cause weather helm, which is what we need more of on this boat.
Great seatrial. What type and size rope do you use on the jib downhaul? Thanks.
It was something like 4mm double braid polyester through a small block at the tack of the headsail. Ideally tie it just below the first hank. If you tie it to the head it sometimes causes the hank to twist and bind.
The line is lead aft to a staunchion. At some stage it will probably get its own cam cleat.
I've also used the tail of the halyard in the past. I like the simplicity of this approach and it reduces the amount of line in the cockpit.
Thanks very much.
How about a jib furler ? Then you can have a jib of nearly any size?
There are not many suitable reefing systems for this size of boat. The normal wire luff system would be a nightmare in these conditions. It needs to have a solid foil of some sort. There is a nice system built in the UK, but postage would be very difficult since it would be a delicate 4.5 meter length.
Hi Matt,
Love your videos - well done.
Do you know of anywhere we can bare boat charter in Hobart?
Thanks
Hi Peter. What size boat? How many people? Duration?
@@SmallCraftTasmania-ms4sx I would be very comfortable with something around 30ft for 4 people for 3 or 4 days.
Got your email. There’s no commercial bare boat charters but I might know someone that would consider something. I’ll get her to contact you via your email.
@@SmallCraftTasmania-ms4sx Thanks Matt... stay salty!
This explains why Tasmania's insane asylums have padded cells upholstered with Sunbrella and straight (strait?) jackets tailored from Dacron.
All jokes aside, do you only cop the lee helm in these conditions, or does she have a tendency to bear down in more gentlemanly conditions? I was hardly surprised with her tendency to lengthen your arm when you had the headsail up (it's not a small bit of cloth), but when you were under main alone, I was expecting it to be quite balanced.
If it is a bit inclined to lee helm in all conditions, is the mast stepped in such a fashion that it can be brought aft by a few inches or do you think that revised reefing points and a smaller headsail will cure such ills?
I'm stuck to an armchair in Central Vic these days but would appreciate your feedback. Thank you very much for the content and good work not testing her right ability.
Yeah, she suffers from lee helm in light airs as well. We intend to rake the mast even further aft, and the bigger main will help a fair bit. The mast is a long way forward on this design. She would make a fine yawl.
@@bentucker5009 Thanks for your reply. Hopefully tuning the rake doesn't mean sending the main off to the loft. That said, you're a sailor, you're meant to be poor!
@davidbrayshaw3529 its Matts boat, but he is getting a new sail built, one of the reasons we wanted to test her in a bit of wind.
The mast can ho aft a fair bit more, but the current sails foot might get a bit low.
@@bentucker5009 Oh, lovely, you get to sail someone else's lentils and rice dinners.
My father was a strong proponent for sailing on other people's yachts, after he sold his!
I was wondering about the foot getting a little low.
I've got to say, it looks like a pretty impressive vessel, despite requiring a bit of tuning. I get the impression that it's quite seaworthy for its size. Is your mate happy with his choice?
Great video guys. Can I ask what app you’re running on your watch? Cheers
Waterspeed: waterspeedapp.com/
Why does it not have a kicker? ⛵️
They were not released from the factory with one. See our latest Episode...we added one. Much better!
@@SmallCraftTasmania-ms4sx cool, I’ll check it out. 👌⛵️
Is the center board all the way down?
She doesn't have a CB. Just a shallow long keel.
No expert here, but not sure why you would have so much sail up forward in those expected conditions. Im assuming 110% on the jib. Balance of the boat would be atrocious. I mean you are reefed on the main and still sailing a full sail up front.
Unfortunately we didn't have a smaller jib. I did pack one of my mirror headsails but the hanks were wrong.