TINYSA ULTRA SPECTRUM ANALYZER AND RF SIGNAL GENERATOR
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- Опубликовано: 13 дек 2022
- Here we take a look at the TinySA ULTRA, a spectrum analyser and signal generator.
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Great video, just In vhf the S-meter S9 is arround -93 dbm
That is correct and thank you pointing this out. -73dBm for HF and -93dBm for VHF. Thanks I have pinned your comment for others to easily see.
That TECH MINDS fix in a video my commentary is the best of 2022. You was my inspiration for RADIO BUNKER. ! all the best
@@RADIOBUNKER73 That's awesome! I have subscribed to your channel just now.. :-) Good luck!
Is the dBm "Millivolts" or actually dBu ? "Microvolts" with the m designation? Considering one for Amateur Radio experimentation. Setting generator levels and associated attenuation levels.
These devices are amazing, people don't realize how advanced this is for the price. 10 years ago tech nerds would cream over having a functional spectrum analyzer in the palm of their hand.
I have one of these, they are S tier.
I'd advise anyone buying this to get a replacement set of connectors, and some extra female to male , male to male, and female to female connectors to attach the unit itself (AND some short jumpers) to "save" the ones on it from wear and tear, AND because you ARE going to loose them and drop them, etc. And BNC to sma adaptors and BNC ones too. Also, if you are considering obtaining a full size spectrum analyser over this one? DON'T. instead? Buy THIS ONE FIRST along with the Tiny VNA. Trust me, sure the display is small. But you can't beat the portability and price! It's incredible that you can place a DMM, VNA, SA, and digital tiny scope into a shaving kit bag: Do just that, and these instruments become your EVERYDAY CARRY instruments that you actually USE. AND? It all runs independent of the mains so you get rid of ground loop problems. After you take these steps? You just might forget that you need an expensive VNA and SA, or NOT... But if you do? You'll have THIS fine unit AND interchangeable connectors at the ready for you larger unit! ;-) All the Best! 73 DE W8LV BILL
Not to mention that the price spike really really fast for "good" SA or VNA, or in some case combined SA+VNA, upwards of tens of thousands for Rigols and Siglents, and R&S or Keysight is just comically priced compared to those tinySA, NanoVNA/LiteVNA etc.
Thanks for taking the time to make such a concise and informative review of the TINYSA ULTRA. Looks like exactly what I have been searching for!
Wow this is so interesting. I am learning how to put together, setup, and test a hydrogen-line 21cm (1420.4058 MHz) SDR radio telescope dish. The TinySA Ultra spectrum analyzer is one of the recommended test equipment items. Now what? This video is just what I need to understand what it can do. The R-scope is all new to me. 😎 Thank you.
Wow. What a great real world demo! Thanks for going through this clearly. I of course have to have one now.
Great video as usual, gotta get me one of them!
The whole point of the pin number was for the users to read what is written on that page 😀
Ohhh my bad..
@@TechMindsOfficial Good excuse to do a follow-up showing the limitations of the "ultra" mode. A suggestion for the RF gen part: use one of your SDRs to show the signals produced.
A very interesting and inexpensive piece of kit. Thanks for the review.
I applaud screenshot capability as we have been needing it for a LONG time, but we really need it on the nanovna.
Amazing piece of tool.
Hi. Thank You for interesting video. I have just obtained my Tiny S.A ULTRA and played a little. Before I had previous version, but wasn't fully satisfied because ow it's RBW limitation to 3KHz. It was impossible to observe basic audio modulated signal lika AM or SSB, but ULTRA model is improved to 1khZ AND 200Hz which allows that. I also plkayed with it as signal generator. Measured output power with chinese small power meter. Results are satisfactory. I subscribed to Your channel and looking forward for other cool videos. Best regards. 73 Marcin SP5IOU
Great video, off to order one.
Thanks. Goint to recommend to my HAM club members.
very nice/ Thanks
The audio out is primarily AM demodulation. FM is recovered using slope detection.
And now someone need to merge #TinySA, #NanoVNA and flipper zero in the same package :)
and while at it throw some #picoAprsV4 in to the mix :)
Pro tip:
"dBm" is a power measurement (ref'd to 1 milliwatt) where 0 dBm = 1 mW
"dB" is an attenuation value where 30 dB is a power attenuation factor of 1000.
End of Pro tip.
Great video. I have just ordered one. Cant wait to get my hands on it. Thank you. Mark 2w0jmk
Nice tool.
I think those harmonics might have been due to overloading the input to the Tiny SA. 30dB attenuation is probably not enough as the maximum quoted input level is the damage level, not the working input level. The easy way to tell if you are overloading your Tiny SA (or any spectrum analyser) input is to add an additional 10dB attenuation, if the harmonics drop by more than 10dB then you are overloading the Tiny SA's input pre-amplifier.
The internal attenuator was set to automatic, do you think I should of set that to manual? Maybe to 10dB?
@@TechMindsOfficial You can try that, switch in the internal attenuator, if the harmonics fall by more than the amount of the attenuator then you were overloading, but really because we don't know how the internal attenuator works (it could just be a gain controlled amplifier) an additional 10db or 20dB in-line attenuator before the input is the way to 100% sure. Also make sure the LNA is switched off. Actually my TinySA Ultra arrived since my post and I must say it is very impressive for the price and size. My main SA is a 1980s HP8060A, in these the attenuator is a real piece of hardware and you can immediately switch in a resistive attenuator. As a precaution I have a 10dB attenuator permanently connected to the front panel, apart from offering a degree of protection against overload it also serves to save wear on the unit's own "n" socket.
He should have had adequate attenuation if the signal output was just one watt. For a 5 watt HT radio I typically use about ~65dB of attenuation and that keeps me at least the recommended 30db below its maximum input rating of 6dB. The only difference is I use external attenuators and then allow the auto-attenuate function to act as internal protection if I ever miscalculate my attenuation, but with 65dB attenuation on the input the auto-attenuator ordinarily remains at 0dB. You may also use an external step attenuator, if you prefer, but the less expensive one I purchased on Amazon for $75 I noticed was off by nearly 1.5dB with around 40dB attenuation added in (as in, a bit too much attenuation) whereas my fixed attenuators always seem to be practically dead on their target attenuation (as in, within plus/minus a few hundredths of a dab versus stated attenuation) when I have tested them. If you enter the amount of external attenuation you have provided as a negative value in the EXTERNAL GAIN parameter then the TinySA Ultra will automatically account for your external attenuation in its reported numbers (it automatically accounts for any automatic internal attenuation, so do not count that value - just your external attenuation).
The Baofeng and similar Chinese knock-off radios sold at economy prices are fairly notorious for their harmonics as they have no meaningful input or output filtering to block those harmonics. Some are just within legal limits while others are well outside and it is just chance in many cases. My Baofeng UV-82 (which was Part 90 certified) was well within the legal limit for harmonics, but they were quite clearly there as compared to my Yaesu VX-6r which had no visible harmonics (so somewhere below the TinySA Ultra’s noise floor). I use a 20dB 50W (I also have a 20dB 100W) power attenuator as part of my TinySA Ultra’s kit as that allows me to use the same exact setup for both HTs and mobile radios just by adding in another 10dB when testing mobile radios. I use my 100W 20dB attenuator for testing 100W HF radios. Combined with the NanoVNA-H4 (also a 4” display) the combo offer us all sonde extremely portable and affordable options for testing that both our radios are operating within spec and that our antennas are performing at there optimal best as well. Just a few years ago the equivalent capability and bandwidth to cover all the popular amateur bands would have cost the amateur operator many thousands of dollars and we now have that all covered for about $350, tops (and covers to at least the 23cm band, if not greater, on the VNA/antenna analyzer).
Just be careful not to buy a counterfeit TinySA Ultra as they do not pass self-diagnostics as-is so their manufacturers are patching the firmware so it will report “success” on the self-test. This causes all to look good (whether it is, or not) until you install your first update patch and discover that your counterfeit unit will never pass self-diagnostics. Obviously, the author author and creator of TinySA Ultra (its hardware and firmware) can not help people out if they bought a counterfeit unit as he has no say in their manufacture, quality control, or repair (the counterfeit manufacturers are simply ripping off his work and seeking a knock-off fir just a few dollars less than the authentic units).
Good point. I always use an external attenuator with my SA's, and try to measure around -20dBm or so for best dynamic range and accuracy.
re: "I think those harmonics might have been due to overloading"
Yes. Professional measurement with quality gear like HP, Agilent or Keysight calls for attenuating the fundamental as well, IF one cares to read thru the procedure used by manufacturer for FCC Type Acceptance tests.
The fact that it has demodulation and frequency generator and seem to be decent. I going to buy one to try it as have portable spectrum analyzer that cost at one point 38k and still around 19k refurbished for one it a real time spectrum analyzer. Obviously don’t expect to see I be near the performance but also did repair recently a older rohde & schwarz fsh 3 spectrum analyzer that had a bad FET as won’t turn on and bad battery which replaced and now works so wonder how it hold up compared to that one? For $130 don’t expect it to but if it come close and usable it be a steal. Also interested in how well the signal generator is and quality of signal?
original unit sold on aliexpess ?
made my day.
So cool! Does anyone know if there is an API to talk to the TinySA with custom software?
I'm relatively new to amateur radio, and I'd like to use a TinySA Ultra to determine where RFI may be coming from. Is that possible, and if so, what should I be googling for a guide?
Thank you, I have always wanted a Spectrum Analyzer (You have the "R" in the wrong place by the way) but could never afford the ridiculous prices. I have purchased from your link, I hope I don't get a rip off clone. Bob. UK
Cheers! Thanks for letting me know, I’ll fire my proof reader.. that’s me duh lol thanks
I wonder if I should upgrade!. I have the older version. Any thoughts?
The ultra has few upgrades: SD card, headphone jack for FM demodulation, frequency generation! Did I miss anything?
I wish if there is an in depth comparison to see if it worthwhile to upgrade?
well worth it, I have 3 of the old ones integrated into various projects and will replace them with the ultra.
Are these better than the rf explorer analysers? I now need one 600mhz to 5gig. The rf explorer model is 2-300 ukp
Hi where did you get your attenuators from. Trying to find some at a reasonable price. 73
Hi Mat.
Would you consider doing a run through some of the radios you have reviewed in the past with the TinySA. We are all well aware if the bad rep some Chinese manufacturers have concerning signal purity so it would be interesting seeing how recent radio perform. I would particularly be interested in the performance of the Q900 and some of the multiband HTs you’ve done in the past. I note you have done some spectrum test on recent radios, so thanks for that.
Hey Gerry! Thanks for the message. I currently have the Q900 V4 in video production, and I intended to do the testing and show results. It may be a separate video from the first launch video, as it could be a quite long segment with all the bands, but yes, it will be done :) cheers
@@TechMindsOfficial thanks. That would be a welcome video for sure as I am about to pull the trigger on a Q900 v4 and this sort of information would greatly help by purchasing decision
Good morning, I am writing from Italy and I am using a translator. Regarding the characteristics, I read that as a signal generator, AM is optional, for me it is exactly the AM that I need, what can I do? Greetings
Please unboxing/tear down it
How could I measure resonant antenna frequency with this unit?
Can you change module in am?
Your attenuator is 10 dB with 10 W max operating power. You're not doing 30 dB attenuation externally. Even with a 5W transmitter, you need at least 37 dB attenuation to bring the power down to 0 dBm (= 0.001W = 1 mW) which is the recommended for the TinySA input.
If you listen to what I say I mention that after the 10dB attenuator there is a 20db, lower powered attenuator. It’s a NooElec one, so they are very small, it’s silver in colour and you can see it in the video. Plus I am using low power on the radio.
@@TechMindsOfficial Even with 30 dB attenuation, that will only bring 1W to 0 dBm. So if the transmitter outputs anything above 1W you are potentially damaging the equipment. What if the power level changes, e.g. because you are in memory mode and the channel has a set power level and after overwriting it you accidentally reset to the original power level by changing the channel and going back or restarting the radio? It's not expensive equipment, but IMO this is not a good practice
Hi! De VU2RJV Handle Raj from India here. Thanks for your awesome videos. They are simply superb. I wanted to know how to set up for testing crystal frequencies to match crystals within 20Hz of each other for use in a ladder filter. Thanks. 73
It does appear to be able to do resolution down to 20 Hz. A good test fixture and a signal generator with a high accuracy timebase (or GPS disciplined osc) might be needed. Also, your specs might be too tight - drift of 20 Hz with room temp shift could be expected at say 10 MHz easy with the crystal itself, and then the other components play a par too.
I thought it was stable to 6ghz? I want to get this for fpv signals which are usually 5.8ghz. Is this not the right item for this?
Hello . Can i do the same test using tiny sa not ultra😊
Can it test distance to fault (DTF) on a 50 ohm coaxial cable, with a 50 ohm load at the far end of the cable? Thx
That's what the VNA can do - NanoVNA or LiteVNA. TDR is a feature of a Network analyser rather than the Spectrum one.
My english is not good that is why i want to ask , can i ues it to measure the signal of car sensors as crankshaft sensor or maf sensor ..etc
No, please use an oscilloscope for such purpose such as DSO2512g.
not all baofeng's are equal.
uv82 (6mths old) is very clean on output, but it is deafer than my yaesu (137dbm) its signal is lost at about 126dbm
No such thing as a 10dbm attenuator. an attenuator is not referenced to 0dbm . Its plain a 10db or 20db attenuator. also, Remember a harmonic around -50dbm means nothing if the fundamental is at -30 as an example. It is common to use the term dbc and then reference the harmonic to the fundamental. The Tinysa will do this for you if you use the harmonic measurement function. Otherwise good job making the video.
Thanks mate, I’m still learning this amazing bit of kit, lots to learn! Thanks for your comment, it’s very much appreciated.
Thank you for noting this too. And also thanks to the channel creator for his time to do this review.
HOW ARE YOU DOING THANK YOU FOR YOUR VIDEO ON YOUR YOURTUBE CHANNEL I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU ABOUT ONE THINK
I HAVE A ELECTRO MAGNETIC EXPOSURE FROM WORK ENVIRONMENT AND I WOULD PERSONALLY LIKE TO MEASURE THIS IS THIS IS SAFE OR I WOULD NEED TO USE SOME SAFETY MEASURMENTS
ALSO I WOULD LIKE TO RECORD IT - AND HAVE A JOURNAL OF HOW MUCH EVERY DAY AND WHAT TIMES I HAVE THIS EXPOSURE ON AROUND THE AREA
WOULD YOU RECOMMEND ALSO SOME SPECTRUM ANAYLZER AS WELL CONNECTED TO A EM METER
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME LOOKING FORWARD TO HEAR FROM YOU BEST
I found a 2023 New Handheld 2.8" Display Tiny Spectrum Analyzer TinySA ULTRA 4" Display 100kHz to 5.3GHz With 32GB Card Version V0.4.5.1, don't know if this the latest one or not. What puzzles me is that the Tiny SA cost 45.59 Euros while the so called Ting SA Ultra cost 127.19 Euros. from your video it is easy to enable the Ultra mode, but I'm still not sure because this seems to be too vague. Would like to see your feedback on this.
This says I will not ship to my address (uk)
Attenuation is measured in dB not dBm. dBm is an absolute power measurement with respect to 1mW. 0 dBm equals 1mW, 30 dBm equals 1 watt, etc.
you couldn't connect this to an android phone could you?
Can you please remove the part where you show the ultra unlock code?
Sure.. :-)
there’s little point blanking the screen, only to say it in the audio….
It’s RUclips editor taking its time to process!
On small detail: The first harmonic is the fundamental frequency. What you call first harmonic is the second harmonic. For the rest a nice review.
xx dBm attenuator ... my brain hurts
Is this spectrum analyzer good enough to know if my HackRF is going to splatter harmonics all over the band landing me thousands in fines? 😆 (Or should I buy an old chonky spectrum analyzer unit from eBay?)
Yes.
5:38 that's not 50% lol, that's -35 dB or just 0.02% of fundamental.
Why do you keep saying you have 30 dB of attenuator when the sticker on it says 10dB
If you listen to what I say I mention that after the 10dB attenuator there is a 20db, lower powered attenuator. It’s a NooElec one, so they are very small, it’s silver in colour and you can see it in the video.
TL;DW
An RF generator?
Is this a kind way of saying jammer?
I know it's not the purpose but ...same basic principle?
Hardly. It's useful for generating a signal on a specific frequency to test receiver equipment. Not everything is a jammer!
@@josephhacker6508 correct, not everything is used for it's intended purpose (10/29/69) and it's because of that that we have advanced fast and far...but I assume you know this already if you're using the loose term "hacker" in your name.
So from the vague information you so gallantry offered it is then safe to assume it can only jam a single frequency at a time, that is if using a singular antenna?
@@JohnnyDerppp it wont be jamming anything. The output power is too low.
nope, its a signal generator to check receivers and other gear.To low a level to be an effective jammer.
it has no reference value,