Very sad. 😢 Reminds me of when I had a fresh Instrument rating in my hot little hand, and planned a late arrival flight back into Sydney over the blue mountains. The refuelling guy said to me in a thick aussie drawl " We'll be readin' about ya on the news tomorrow mate, why don't ya come home an have a beer with me and the missus instead " An hour into the flight I saw the cloud on the mountain and chickened out. Turned around and went and found Gary. Thank you Gary, you may have saved my life that day. Please remember that little signature on your licence does not mean " just because you can, you should. " I love the idea of a network of friends with a spare bed, and a free pick-up at the airstrip. ❤
@@CS_247 it’s good that he put the idea in your head, but you probably would have made the right decision anyway. Just because other pilots do stupid things doesn’t mean we all will nor does it mean we have to stay on the ground and not try as others are trying to suggest. You gave it a go and decided it wasn’t for you that day. I would be more worried about the ones who normally stay on the ground being incapable of making the right decision in the air.
Chilling words to a man who will heed them..." We'll be readin' about ya on the news tomorrow mate, why don't ya come home an have a beer with me and the missus instead ". I've lost more than a few friends who never lived to become wise enough, soon enough, to heed them. Glad you got a second chance mate!
Hi, Yay for Gary and any person who provides a bed or any shelter during a time of need. I am not a pilot, so I sometimes try to figure out how to apply these lessons or philosophies in life.
Oh, I don't think you chickened out. I think you used your judgement and operated within your scope of practice (to borrow a term from medical practice).
I was pilot 1 and Seuk was pilot 2 on a 3 leg dog rescue last month. I only got to meet him briefly outside of CLT as we moved the dogs from my plane to his. Such a punch in the gut. RIP.
@@mofayer There are so many dogs in an overloaded system that if there is space available, or if someone sees a dog they want that is hundred of miles away, there are people willing to help will transport them. We’ve had relays of car drivers, a bus came in with 41 dogs and pups, and we had a pilot that flew up from Kentucky to NE Ohio with a dog. It is a certain mindset. Just get it done. I just wish this guy realized getting it done tomorrow would have been fine even if inconvenient.
With all due respect, way too many of you are putting our lives and more importantly, the lives of our children, at risk for your narcissistic need for attention. Instead of focusing on the task at hand and nothing more. This is a serious issue. You're putting our children's lives at risk and there's a reckoning on the horizon. These pilot influencers are a disgrace. They never think of anyone else. Do you know why? It's genetic. But we're not permitted to discuss actual solutions to actual life threatening issues. They are all born afflicted by a genetic precursor for an underdeveloped amygdala in utero and this is a fact that you're just not aware of because we're not allowed to discuss the known physical characteristics directly connected to the development of the amygdala which is where the conscience (thinking about others) or lack there of exists. They all have these same features and we're just not allowed to talk about it but for those that are aware of actual science know what I'm talking about as they all have that same feature. It's just a scientific clinical medical physical genetic disorder and we're just not permitted to discuss it openly...for obvious reasons even though it's everything.
Instead of "whipping the credit card out" maybe we need to form a group of aviation people who live near small airports who have space to put up pilots and their "cargo" until weather improves. Kind of a no questions asked thing, if a pilot thinks flying is a bad idea having another pilot in the area who can help remove the expense of getting a hotel from the decision making process. We always hear, "If it would save 1 life, we should do it" and this definitely has the potential to save more than just a single life.
If you take not just a little but substantial risk because of cost to stay then you should have never left your home airport..knowing that weather is a variable. This is wrong decision making.
We had something like that in the Goldwing Road Riders Association (GWRRA), now defunct due to selfish, incompetent management with ego problems. Nonetheless, we had the "Gold Book", with every member in every state and city. The listing would show help available: tools, towing, parking, camping, housing, etc., with the member's phone # to call for help. Something similar for pilots would be helpful...he could have spent the night and flown in the morning.
@@Rimo-ls4dgapparently you just landed on earth so I'll let ya in on a well known fact ..weather always changes and you can't predict it on Earth. How long have you been on the planet?
Met Seúk personally at our airport. My buddy flew with him over 200 hrs ferrying planes from coast to coast and all over the place. I was flying in culpeper and Manassas and saw him at the airport the same day he crashed ; so this hits home in a tough way. My prayers go out to his family, not here to start controversy or being insensitive and I totally hate to bring this up but Seúk was always border line bragging about how he was doing all these crazy cross wind landings and flying at nights in turbulence and him being the only one flying because of the conditions. Unfortunately This behavior eventually catches up to you ! Let’s all learn from this very painful lesson ! So unnecessary and horrible for his family. 🙏🙏
Juan, I can see in your face and hear in your voice how tired/disappointed you are to report this crash, knowing Seuk knew the conditions prior to takeoff and just didn’t stay put. I’m sorry for his families loss, may he rest in peace!
@@pulaski1and he’s right of course, I often choose to pick none. And I’m instrument rated, but a single is a single, even the Fiki ones don’t transform you into Superman.
@@unclefreddy2009it being a single seems to have played absolutely no part in the crash at all. Refusing to do flights that can be conducted with a decent safety margin and not getting the job done is not the sign of a good pilot like lots of people want to pretend.
@@zachansen8293That wasn’t in the video at all. He probably assessed it as safe enough and chose to do it. Nothing said that he was in any sort of a rush or couldn’t afford to stay somewhere overnight. It could have been because it’s easier than finding somewhere for the dogs, but then it’s not just a matter of getthereitis but a reasonable factor to consider. Flying in bad but safe conditions is not the sign of bad decision making. Staying in a motel room unnecessarily is
Very well said. He was quite popular in this area and no one seems to have been willing to discuss the chain of decisions made that led to this accident. You stated what needed to be said, clearly and respectfully.
@@larryvrooman4672 If people want to discuss them that’s fine, but do pilots really need to discuss the same things over and over? We already know what we should and shouldn’t do pretty well. I also don’t like pretending every time that someone crashes that it could have been any of us. Why pretend that everyone is equal to the worst? We know it’s not realistic to think that we are all equal to the best why can’t we acknowledge that some are better and some are worse than the majority? I am not commenting on this person, just the general idea.
@@chrisnoname2725 It's not about having 100% applicability. It's about trying to decrease the worst. If it's not for you then great. Move on. But obviously there are others that need it. Just because something isn't for you doesn't mean it's wrong.
@@zachansen8293 i was asking a question. Before these channels, did people bother to find the reports and read them? I don’t remember anyone really caring when i was flying. We knew what we needed to do and just did it, we didn’t need endless cautionary tales. Obviously nothing needs to be universally needed to be worth doing. I was questioning if we really need to analyse every single crash when as people have acknowledged, there are lots of nearly identical crashes for nearly identical reasons and normally doing things that we all know not to do. There’s no learning in those instances.
@@zachansen8293 those you think need it, aren’t going to learning from it anyway. Those on here that say they have learned something, i strongly doubt needed to learn because they seemed to have the right personalities to avoid these situations because of learning what to do and why and are responsible people.
@@chrisnoname2725 Yes we need to discuss the same things over and over if they keep happening. Clearly we are not learning, and every time something like this happens, it's a lesson for the rest of us. Rest in Peace to this man, and I'm sure he's a great guy. He just didn't make the best decisions that day.
Juan first I want to thank you for your efforts in analysis of these accidents. I continue to fly in GA, having recently retired from a 33 year airline career with GA prior, since 1974. You stated it well in this review on the Mooney dog rescue crash, in allowing " the mission drive the decision-making process " and IT IS CRUCIAL WE REMAIN EVER cognizant of not allowing outside factors to change our Core Safety Decision Making Process. I'm commenting as a hypocrite today, as back in 1981 I was a " single pilot night freight dog",..flying Cessna 310s in the worst of conditions, under pressure from management that ' mission accomplishment is imperative'. I miraculously lived through those years. I've learned from the worst of conditions many decades ago and moved forward from there to not allow "comfort to breed complacency". I thank the Good Lord above I'm alive today to convey. Thank you, Sir. Capt. Edward A. Sarkisian United Airlines ("Retired")
@@edsarkisian4434 it’s much better to be pushed to learn than be coddled and think you’re perfect and everything is always the same. I had instructors that would get flustered when they were told to do something different to what they always did. They looked good on paper and they were very smooth at what they did all the time. There’s a reason i had a young, new instructor doing the night training that those others didn’t do. More hours doesn’t mean a better pilot. They just rejected any jobs requiring any effort to try to look perfect
Spent a lot of time in an almost identical airplane. As amazing as this airplane is - it cannot withstand even moderate amounts of time in icing conditions. I got a clearance for a quick descent through a cloud layer into Seattle - and after only a few minutes I had severe ice on everything, but worst of all the propeller. I only attempted the descent because I knew the two thousand feet above the ground were above freezing. The aircraft became sluggish and not very responsive. Finally I got to the warmer air and the ice came off quickly. It was quite a lesson for me
Agree with everything you say @szendrenko. I have a few thousand hours in a J-model Mooney and those laminar flow wings cannot tolerate any icing at all before starting to provide reduced lift. RIP Seuk but he should have known that.
Very well said. Seuk was a friend, and I’m devastated by his loss. But we have to face the reality that he made some decisions that led to this tragic outcome.
I lived near the area of the crash for many years and have hiked a lot of the trails. That last bit of ridge line near Windham Mt is deceptively steep combined with winds that can shift quickly as you cross to the northeast.
Juan - several observations. Just as it would be easy for me to get into trouble in the mountains of California, it's easy to get into trouble in the not as high mountains of NY state. The Catskills can be more dangerous than what many think. There's a reason the preferred routing up the Hudson Valley is on the east side, where the terrain is much lower. The day of this accident I was flying south of there in PA, along the route that Seuk took. There was a fairly strong shear layer at 2 - 3 thousand feet. No doubt mechanical turbulence over the mountains were a contributing factor. As for Seuk's experience. I had messaged him several times over the last year, as he had purchased a Grumman I had considered purchasing a year ago this month. He had only recently transitioned to the Mooney several months ago. Whether this was contributing factor to the accident, can't say, but he was relatively new to the Mooney. Not sure what his total experience level was, but he did hold Commercial multi and single, and instrument ratings. As for the route, back in my 135 days and flying the commuters in turboprops, you almost never flew in that area. If you look at the low-enroute charts, the preferred routing up and down the Hudson Valley is along the east side of the river, where the preferred airway is, and has much lower MEAs and MOCAs. In your comment of building time towards the airlines. I don't think that was his goal. Looking at LinkedIn, it appears he had a career in public relations. We all feel your frustration. I know I've been guilty of being 'mission minded.' Seuk was dedicated to the dog rescue mission. Unfortunately, I think his mission mind may have led him to push the limits of the machine and the weather
So obviously, the best decision was to postpone that flight. But after making the decision to go, probably flying IFR - as in “I Follow Roads” would’ve been a good decision to at least be able to have some type of visual contact with the terrain, especially if there was traffic and lighting along the roads. I agree with Juan‘s conclusion. Likely CFIT, single engine & icing not direct causes other than preventing a higher altitude and instrument approach.
I agree. But due to icing, he was likely unable to fly at the MEA/MOCA. My point is this - once he was in a situation where he was in the mountains over uneven terrain at night, flying over the roads would have given him more obstacle clearance (provided there were no wires or towers) and at least some reference to the ground to avoid flying into it.
@@I_Am_Your_ProblemYou are clearly The problem here yes. So you know what plenty of people in Europe have done? Traveled to get stray dogs from an actual warzone.
@@NotASeriousMooseI would suggest anyone who thinks that going into a warzone to rescue animals is a reasonable thing to be doing gets themselves evaluated. I would even consider putting down injured animals as reasonable but to be transporting just strays is not sensible nor something anyone should be considering a priority. It’s nearly as smart as the foreigners that went there and were posting the location of their training camp on social media.
Rest in peace, dear Seuk. What a terrible terrible loss. May you be with us all in spirit as we’re making weather calls, navigating our routes and altitudes, managing our birds and following our passions. ❤ 🐶 ❤ Safe flights to all.
I flew into unexpected icing conditions in IMC on a normal day in May in SoCal a few years ago and having experienced that once I now avoid it like the plague. A few years later I even turned around and RTB’d once because I was doing a night flight, on a cold evening, and couldn’t see if I would be above the clouds ahead of me. I was at 12,500 and OAT was reading 14F. I didn’t want to risk icing so I turned around and went back home. Ice is not something to be tested. Oh, and I was flying my 201 as well. My goal is to never be the subject of an NTSB report or one of Juan’s videos.
I lost a classmate and friend from the Air Force Academy shortly after we graduated. Icing in clouds at Colorado springs, pancaked in 1 mile short of the runway. His fiancé was with him and both tragically were lost. GA airplanes are just not built to handle ice. I will never fly in clouds or visible moisture with flight level temps below 15C in a bug smasher.
Juan, Pretty much covers the whole ball of wax. So, so sad. This was a top tier man, with a wonderful family. He did a wonderful job. We have got to stop putting ourselves in these types of situations. Please fly safe guys!!
Mistakes never happen in your world? Single engine wasn’t a factor. Icing might not have been either if he successfully kept out of it. He could have just lost track of where he was or thought he was past the last of the mountains. Nobody knows what actually happened but everyone wants to make out that the best pilots are the ones most determined to stay on the ground
I knew him personally he was a great guy with beautiful smile, funny caring, and makes you feel as if you were his best friend, even if you just met him. I’ve watched your channel religiously, never thought that I’d be watching a video about my friend. What a punch to the gut. so sorry he’s gone. I pray for his family.
Your account of this accident brings to mind a very similar one that claimed the life of a colleague and fellow flying club member and his two passengers back in 1979. They were approaching their destination of Livermore, KLVK, from the East at night under an overcast with rain showers. As in the case of the Seuk Kim accident, there was a final ridge, Altamont Pass, between them and the airport, which was VFR. I flew this route many times at night, and it has the surprising feature that you can clearly see the airport lights continuously while descending until suddenly you can't. At that point you are seconds away from the terrain. This same terrain claimed a second aircraft on the same night, which crashed a few hundred yards away. No GPS terrain database back then, but there sure is now. Use it!
For those conditions that was not the night to be out there in a Mooney. I've got well over 10,000 hours commuter time in New England. This time of year in those conditions you can go from just flying along in light precip to penetrating large supercooled water droplets in a heart beat. I've inadvertently encountered just that on several occasions where the ice buildup sounds like someone slinging wet mud at the airplane. Got pretty dicey in an airplane certified for known icing nevermind a Mooney. Condolences to his family.😢
Yep, 46 years ago, I flew canceled checks out of Albany in a Cessna 310Q with boots and a hot windshield. The WX can change in a blink of an eye; it's icing season now. And it looks like a good bit of lake-effect snow for the weekend. Calling for two feet or more in someplace.
Juan, thank you for the excellent review. Always thoughtful and in-depth. It’s jarring to hear about another pilot making terrible decisions. Surely Seuk watched your videos and others that also review accidents. For some reason, pilots keep stacking the risks until they die. Human factors and decision making seem to be a huge problem.
A thorough and very professional excellent analysis as always from you Juan. Thank you so much. Seuk was a well qualified and experienced pilot doing what he loved. It seems from many of the comments from those that knew Seuk that he may have enjoyed the challenge of the harsh conditions. He was doing so well up to the point of the disaster. It will be interesting to learn of the weather condition that finally overpowered him, possibly icing, wind shear or both. Such a sad loss to a kind hearted man. Condolences to his family. RIP Seuk.
Thank you for the video, Juan! RIP to this man! He seems like an extremely compassionate soul that was doing good in this world! I'm sorry to his family for their loss! 💔
Such sad news to hear about Seuk and one of the dogs. Hopefully the other two pups that survived will be okay. Condolences and prayers of comfort to Seuk’s family. 🙏🏼 Thank you, Juan, for sharing yet another unfortunate example of what happens when too many odds are stacked against a pilot. A tragic situation that could’ve been avoided. 😢
Man, for some reason, this really hits hard. I mean, here’s a guy who has his commercial and instrument rating, and is doing community service. It’s such a shame. I hope his family knows that we are all praying for them. The aviation community is loving and supportive, and we will honor him by learning and becoming better pilots.
Gah! As a VFR night-qualified pilot, I always used a "3 strike" rule: when I had something adverse happen during a flight (e.g. cloud coverage greater than forecast, or fuel reserves going less than 1 hour daytime), I added a strike. If I got to 3, I landed at the closest appropriate airport. I only had it make it to 3 strikes twice, both times the destination airport was socked in for several hours after we diverted.
@@chrisnoname2725 You can get a VFR rating with a "day only" restriction. An IFR ticket is a LOT more work, and without a legit simulator it's really tough to keep a decent level of currency.
Thank you for your fair and honest reports. Your mission to communicate these reports helps keep eyes open. "A mind is like an umbrella - it works best when it's open."
I fly a lot in this area. His best option was to fly up the Hudson River from the NYC area to KALB. KALB is 285 ' msl. The river was only about 20nm to the east of the mountains with a lot of towns to provide reference points. Single engine and single pilot IFR at night over the mountains - no thanks. Around 5 PM I was to the east driving back to Albany, NY. As I looked to the west I could see what was going on in the Catskills . As I looked over that way I could see a lot of low level clouds and was thinking how threatening the weather looked. Also, why fly at night if you don't have to.
Thank you for at the end pressing the use of the credit card. I got my private pilot in NH and for years, every winter there was these iced up lawn dart crashes and IMC fiascos. New England and Upstate New York ain't the Sierra's but it's still mountain flying. Doing the flight at night into known IMC was nuts. Put the credit card down at the counter and take it up tomorrow morning!
We’ve all heard the axiom: “The job is easy if you have the right tools.” This big-hearted man simply had the wrong tool for the weather conditions at the time. I wish someone with more experience had been there at the departure point to insist that this pilot either delay his flight or hand it off to someone else with the “correct tool.” 😢
Sometimes these accidents hit harder than others...when I first heard of this crash I watched a newscast with Seuk's daughter speak about his passion for aviation and dedication to helping the dog rescue...what a loss. The only good that could come from this is if we all learn to avoid similar situations.
Wow! He could have landed at Stewart Airport (SWF) in Newburgh, or at least headed east as he crossed from PA into NY towards SWF and then flown up the Hudson, where he could have maintained a lower altitude. Choosing to continue over the Catskills in these conditions with low terrain over the Hudson available just 30 miles east is hard to comprehend. This is just sad. With all of the RUclips channels and podcasts that are constantly addressing civil aviation operations in these conditions, it is hard to understand how pilots continue to get themselves into these situations with alarming regularity. RIP.
I can't tell you how amazed I am to see how many grown ass adults make horrible decisions when all they had to do was just wait a few hours and make that flight during warmer daylight hours .
The Hudson River valley was nearby and a small dog leg to his path would have let him avoid the mountains entirely. Those mountains have claimed several airplanes over the years.
This one broke my heart when I first saw it reported on local news. A good guy doing good deeds for dogs. Gotta be a special place in heaven for the pilot and the pup.
My grandfather who was a top turret gunner and flight engineer on a B-24 during ww2 with the 464th bg 779th bomb squad out of Italy....he used to say that when you get in a hurry bad things start happening or can happen
The moment a person makes a habit of repeatedly pushing the envelop, the more oblivious they become to apparent danger. Seuk probably had done similar flights before with success but sadly this night was different. Condolences to the bereaved.
My first cross country when training was KPOU. The reason I picked it, if I saw the Hudson River I’ve gone too far. If Seuk deviated a few miles to the east he could off flown right up the Hudson River to Albany at 2,000 for a straight in or an ils to rwy 01 Instead he was flying direct over the rising terrain. 😢 alb was 4o degrees 6,000 ovc 10 miles vis with scattered clouds at 2200-2700. He was probably flying direct with his GPS and trying to stay under the scattered clouds. It wasn’t terrible weather. flying direct with the gps was the mistake , if he flew east for 2 minutes he could fly up the Hudson River or call Atc and ask for vectors to the ils at Albany straight in or circle to land with wind down the runway
Hi Juan - such a sad situation... any time of year but especially hits you right around the holidays... I live on the fringes of the Catskills and volunteer as a summit steward / fire tower volunteer on one of the more popular peaks. The Cats don't get the press of the Adirondacks or the Whites / Mt. Washington etc. but their weather can be every bit as terrible as bigger mountains. A lot of the "mountains" are long ridges and escarpments and the elevation relief can be significant and without breaks between their various "peaks" along the way. During winter the lake effect bands off Lake Ontario can really slam into the northwestern higher terrain at the edge of the Catskills and produce conditions you'd normally see on much higher mountains. Definitely not an area to be underestimated...
I've been told that same and so I've adopted that rule too. Put it to use recently flying in NC after the hurricane, whipped out the credit card instead.
So sad. Thanks for doing these videos. For GA guys and gals it’s good to watch these videos to keep in mind how bad things can go so quick. Thanks again.
This decisions made by this unfortunate pilot reminds me of a flight I completed during my flight training. I had my PPL and was building hours for my CPL. I had planned an afternoon flight to an airport nestled at the bottom of a valley with a town on one end of the airport and a lake on the other. I had planned an afternoon flight and arrive just before sunset to avoid night approach into an unfamiliar mountain airport. Well, I departed 45 minutes later than expected. Conditions were excellent VFR yet I was under pressure to arrive before dark. Things didn't go as planned and I arrived after sunset and had to do a night approach at a tricky airport along a valley with mountains to each side. Boy was I all nerves as I ensured I flew the pattern at exactly the prescribed pattern altitude and it took three missed approaches before I had the 172 settled on the VASI and plopped it down a little firmly but safely. Now if that was a night approach in IMC (if the airport in fact did have a GPS approach) I would have immediately aborted the approach and in fact would never have departed in the first place. The best decision you can make is when you are ON THE GROUND.
So sad. I was just talking to a pilot friend in CT earlier and one of the things we talked about is that he do not fall victim to thinking that the weather doesn't change this time of year and always do not fall victim to getthereitis.
CFIT seems to happen to experienced pilots who get used to the risks and lose perspective. I know others who have also flown perfectly good airplanes into mountains in similar conditions. All well experienced. On the upside it should help others do the things that are needed to steer clear of cumulogranite formations.
Blancolorio should be required study prior to any pilot that thinks they can fly in any wx just because they have the ratings. Thank Juan. God bless you for your courage to report out on these accidents. It’s heartbreaking for sure.
GA continue to lose very good people due to very poor decisions. Each accident no less painful than the last. Juan's excellent accident reviews are almost certainly saving lives, but more solutions are needed......and I have no idea what those are.
We had similar accident here UK. We were flying around with a 1300 foot cloud base local area. Pilot transiting asked for cloud base then nothing more. We later found he descended into local 1400 foot hill, bang on his straight line track 15 miles from his destination. If only he had stayed at cruise to destination. That was a Mooney.
Thank you Juan for this painful report and your respectful coverage of this accident. This one hit me really hard to the point of failing to keep a dry eye. As a dog lover from birth anyone risking the hazards to save a dogs life is a hero to me and loosing such a wonderful person and pilot as Suek hits me hard. RIP Seuk my heartfelt thoughts and prayers to family and friends.
This one bothers me. I always thought an instrument rating was the ticket to flying in any weather. That is NOT the case for GA pilots. My wife used to say, "I thought you could fly in the clouds?" No we can't. Icing will kill you. Thunderstorms will kill you. But, scud running will kill you too. Don't get yourself trapped below icing conditions. Stay on the ground until conditions improve, and the forecast is for higher ceilings.
Part 91 allows pilot discretion and flexibility when sometimes our ADM is not up to the task. Many biases prevent us from objectively evaluating our own risks and it would've been good for him to have a trusted, impartial CFI or other expert aviator to help him evaluate this flight before takeoff. Personal minimums also work, as does a predeparture briefing (even if it's just talking to yourself) to discuss likely scenarios and pre-decide the course of action for each. - I (CFII/MEI) once flew with another instructor (CFI/MEI) and we decided to takeoff in daylight hours and stay below the clouds over/through gently rolling terrain, but set the floor at 1000' AGL and would immediately bugout up through the (freezing) cloud layer if we got squeezed or lost sight of the terrain. We knew the layer was relatively thin and we had plenty of power (Seneca II), but clearly the better decision would've been to wait it out. The Mooney's laminar flow wing won't take kindly to accretion and those 200HP feel mighty weak when there's drag on the airframe and you want to climb. I wish for a peaceful future for Seuk's family and I hope his legacy is reflected by the lives saved through "breaking out the credit card" and staying put when the mission should be scrubbed.
Thanks Juan. Confirms what I suspected when I first heard of this accident. If only he had flown up the Hudson river VFR he would have been fine. These events make me mad and sad. Totally avoidable with a little planning and thinking.
I have done countless public benefit flights (Pilots-n-Paws like this and others) and the get-there-itis can be a real challenge. I canceled the last PnP mission I was scheduled to do because the weather at my pickup was going to be potentially stormy. I got A LOT of pressure from one of the other pilots to do the trip, to the point we got in an argument, it was hard to stand my ground but I did. Later, I flew missions for Operation Airdrop in North Carolina after the hurricane and part of my pre-flight with my right-seater (my former CFII) was that we both had to be aware of the potential for get-there-itis and be ready to call each other on it if we saw the other possibly making a bad decision. My point in this diatribe is that if you're going to do these kinds of missions, YOU MUST TAKE VERY DELIBERATE MEASURES to be aware of, identify, and avoid the pressures and get-there-itis.
You didn’t tell us if the other pilot ended up being correct and you cancelled a flight because you’re unprepared to try things and deal with different situations and instead don’t even try unless there’s zero chance of needing to make a decision in flight. You only said there was a chance of storms. That’s not uncommon on a forecast and the day ends up being perfectly fine to fly. The instructors at a school i went to wouldn’t fly if there was low cloud but safe and legal, it cuts down on flying days unnecessarily. They just didn’t want to risk putting effort in. I on the other hand flew safely and legally on many more days than others. I am not stupid for putting in effort. It’s about being prepared to make decisions when needed.
After I heard about this, I wanted to see what Juan had to say, and now, I wish I hadn't watched this. I love dogs, my sister rescues dogs. Is flying dogs for rescue actually a good thing? Does the cost to benefit work out? Well, in this case, NO. At least two dogs survived.
Great coverage of what we know so far Juan. This is so sad, and why why would he force this mission into a situation with five serious risk factors? God bless him and his family and friends.
Because that’s not how risk factors work. Clearly people watching this channel think that’s how they work but it’s just nonsense made up to employ useless people to base more nonsense off of. Flying single engine has a risk, so you have maintenance and preflight procedures that make engine failures rare. In this case it didn’t matter. Flying at night is a risk for navigation, so we have navigation aids. Flying in imc is a risk so we have instruments and backup instruments. We don’t know what caused the crash and it could have just been a mistake he made in the moment. The only risk not mitigated and that possibly should have stopped the flight was icing. The others are already lowered to an acceptable level individually and added together. For me personally i still don’t like night without at least one extra engine and proper single engine performance but realistically it’s not that big a deal unless someone rare happens and then you could lose both engines at the same time due to a manufacturing fault. So they somewhat stack but not really. In a workplace each risk is dealt with individually and the number of risks doesn’t matter, mitigating each one is what matters . If i assume icing was the cause and was the only risk not mitigated then that could legitimately be seen as the thing to stop the flight going ahead. The rest is irrelevant. Not everyone wants to just fly in perfect condition, some of us even enjoy a challenge. Maybe the best pilots are those that never even tried. They will forever be safe from a plane crash
I also flew over the mountains on the 24th except I was in VFR in North Carolina Tennessee Kentucky beautiful evening in the air at the same time super sad 😔 prayer for his family and friends… I consider night flying the first strike on a 3 strike rule single engine at night is 2 of 3 anything past that is a no fly rule I don’t care if it’s superstition or any other strike weather wind ice clouds I forgot something on my way to the airport that’s enough to cancel that flight and wait for morning… really do hate to hear this for Seuk…
"All he had to do was clear this last bit of terrain and he would have had it made" Some times our destiny is not what we wish. His time here on earth was well spent.
I volunteer as a summit steward on a Catskill peak and there is a plane crash from the 1980s on "my" mountain... same deal - guy missed clearing the summit ridge by maybe a couple hundred feet... the Cats are tricky because they aren't really pointy mountains... more like bumps with long limbs and ridges - so if you're too low heading right at the mountain, you can very easily be too low out for a mile out either side away from the mountain...
I've driven many times from the Hartford, NY area to Albany, and it is a difficult drive in wet and foggy days, much less doing it at night in an airplane flying minimums.
I can't help but notice the data track goes directly over the 3990 ft label on the chart halfway between the 3800' and 3525' altitude ticks on the flight record. The 3990' point was to the right of the flight path, but not far. A kind man trying to do a kind deed. I'm deeply sorry at his loss.
Looking at the sectional chart, a flight path just 10 miles to the east of where he flew would have put him over the valley with two alternate airports available and at a lower flight altitude. Icing may have been an issue at this flight path also, but at 4 deg C at the surface, and flying at 1500 AGL might have saved icing. Still, too many uncertainties.
Well that's the thing: you take big risks and make it through a few times, then one day you don't. I'm not too far from there and there are many days in these conditions you really just can't fly. In the winter your IFR rating isn't of much use.
One of the little bunnies was found nearby in a hole he'd dug in the snow -- despite having two broken legs, the poor thing! The other surviving dog was found wandering around near the crash site and was barely injured, thank goodness. Both Whiskey and Pluto are expected to make a full recovery. But it breaks my heart that Seuk and the third dog did not survive. Seuk was a kind and generous man with an enormous heart.
@@Bright_Broccoli That's exactly right. I call pretty much any animal a little bunny -- an admittedly confusing habit I picked up from my daughter, who would call just about every living THING a little bunny.😊
This one is harder than most to process. It is easy to surmise the large amount of psychological reinforcement behind "completing the mission" that entered into the decision process for this pilot. The combination of a substantial history of successful flights, the routine nature of the process, and the the undoubtedly strong internal and external emotional rewards that come from the work he was doing can make postponing or canceling a flight difficult. To balance the psychological inertia behind the desire for mission completion requires a strong overt safety emphasis especially throughout the cultures of humanitarian and rescue flying.
This is super unfortunate. Look at that straight line, he knew what he was doing flying in IMC conditions… but it doesn’t matter how well you’re flying if there’s terrain in the way. 😢
ADS-B frequencies are approaching line of site unfortunately. "How does it work? In the United States, ADS-B-equipped aircraft and vehicles exchange information on one of two frequencies: 978 MHz or 1090 MHz. Mode A/C and S transponders, as well as Traffic Collision and Avoidance Systems (TCAS), use 1090 MHz."
We had a rental van transporting approximately 30 pitbulls crash on the Interstate in Idaho a few years ago. A very sad scene that appeared to be due to the drivers falling asleep. Both drivers and several dogs killed. The trip originated from AZ and was going non-stop to MT or Canada. I think that dogs bring another level of get-there-itis. The logistics the dogs bring about probably compound a bad situation. Very sad.
That is really sad to hear. I used to transport for the Santa Fe shelter, mostly to Phoenix and Denver, sometimes to Best Friends in Utah which was a pretty long day. The animals definitely add distraction, and serious logistics issues if you get off schedule like an unplanned overnight.
Just having a modern GPS,even an old Garmin 496 shows you terrain and indicates you height via Red,Yellow or green. I always have used mine in my usual western mountain flying. I don’t fly night single engine.
"Get there itis" is a very strong internal force to overcome. We have a natural tendency to want to complete our missions. That force needs to be balanced by Captain Lamplugh's famous words; “Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect.”
Very sad. 😢 Reminds me of when I had a fresh Instrument rating in my hot little hand, and planned a late arrival flight back into Sydney over the blue mountains. The refuelling guy said to me in a thick aussie drawl " We'll be readin' about ya on the news tomorrow mate, why don't ya come home an have a beer with me and the missus instead " An hour into the flight I saw the cloud on the mountain and chickened out. Turned around and went and found Gary. Thank you Gary, you may have saved my life that day.
Please remember that little signature on your licence does not mean " just because you can, you should. "
I love the idea of a network of friends with a spare bed, and a free pick-up at the airstrip. ❤
@@CS_247 it’s good that he put the idea in your head, but you probably would have made the right decision anyway.
Just because other pilots do stupid things doesn’t mean we all will nor does it mean we have to stay on the ground and not try as others are trying to suggest.
You gave it a go and decided it wasn’t for you that day. I would be more worried about the ones who normally stay on the ground being incapable of making the right decision in the air.
Chilling words to a man who will heed them..." We'll be readin' about ya on the news tomorrow mate, why don't ya come home an have a beer with me and the missus instead ". I've lost more than a few friends who never lived to become wise enough, soon enough, to heed them. Glad you got a second chance mate!
Hi, Yay for Gary and any person who provides a bed or any shelter during a time of need.
I am not a pilot, so I sometimes try to figure out how to apply these lessons or philosophies in life.
Oh, I don't think you chickened out. I think you used your judgement and operated within your scope of practice (to borrow a term from medical practice).
Good on ya Gary.
I was pilot 1 and Seuk was pilot 2 on a 3 leg dog rescue last month. I only got to meet him briefly outside of CLT as we moved the dogs from my plane to his. Such a punch in the gut. RIP.
Can anyone explain why the dog rescue needed an airplane? I'm so confused.
@@mofayer There are so many dogs in an overloaded system that if there is space available, or if someone sees a dog they want that is hundred of miles away, there are people willing to help will transport them. We’ve had relays of car drivers, a bus came in with 41 dogs and pups, and we had a pilot that flew up from Kentucky to NE Ohio with a dog. It is a certain mindset. Just get it done. I just wish this guy realized getting it done tomorrow would have been fine even if inconvenient.
@@mofayerlook up “pilots and paws”
@@mofayer to some extent it's an excuse to fly.. but it's a good excuse. But in this case he should have just turned around.
With all due respect, way too many of you are putting our lives and more importantly, the lives of our children, at risk for your narcissistic need for attention. Instead of focusing on the task at hand and nothing more. This is a serious issue. You're putting our children's lives at risk and there's a reckoning on the horizon.
These pilot influencers are a disgrace. They never think of anyone else. Do you know why? It's genetic. But we're not permitted to discuss actual solutions to actual life threatening issues. They are all born afflicted by a genetic precursor for an underdeveloped amygdala in utero and this is a fact that you're just not aware of because we're not allowed to discuss the known physical characteristics directly connected to the development of the amygdala which is where the conscience (thinking about others) or lack there of exists.
They all have these same features and we're just not allowed to talk about it but for those that are aware of actual science know what I'm talking about as they all have that same feature. It's just a scientific clinical medical physical genetic disorder and we're just not permitted to discuss it openly...for obvious reasons even though it's everything.
Instead of "whipping the credit card out" maybe we need to form a group of aviation people who live near small airports who have space to put up pilots and their "cargo" until weather improves. Kind of a no questions asked thing, if a pilot thinks flying is a bad idea having another pilot in the area who can help remove the expense of getting a hotel from the decision making process. We always hear, "If it would save 1 life, we should do it" and this definitely has the potential to save more than just a single life.
definitely need the aviation equivalent of the "Green Book"; which is a most excellent movie by the way.
🎉❤bingo
If you take not just a little but substantial risk because of cost to stay then you should have never left your home airport..knowing that weather is a variable. This is wrong decision making.
We had something like that in the Goldwing Road Riders Association (GWRRA), now defunct due to selfish, incompetent management with ego problems. Nonetheless, we had the "Gold Book", with every member in every state and city. The listing would show help available: tools, towing, parking, camping, housing, etc., with the member's phone # to call for help. Something similar for pilots would be helpful...he could have spent the night and flown in the morning.
@@Rimo-ls4dgapparently you just landed on earth so I'll let ya in on a well known fact ..weather always changes and you can't predict it on Earth. How long have you been on the planet?
Met Seúk personally at our airport. My buddy flew with him over 200 hrs ferrying planes from coast to coast and all over the place. I was flying in culpeper and Manassas and saw him at the airport the same day he crashed ; so this hits home in a tough way. My prayers go out to his family, not here to start controversy or being insensitive and I totally hate to bring this up but Seúk was always border line bragging about how he was doing all these crazy cross wind landings and flying at nights in turbulence and him being the only one flying because of the conditions. Unfortunately This behavior eventually catches up to you ! Let’s all learn from this very painful lesson ! So unnecessary and horrible for his family. 🙏🙏
I imagine you were shocked because you just saw him.
The proverbial old pilots vs bold pilots
Don't be like Seuk
Physics don’t change because you’re doing good work.
💯
Juan, I can see in your face and hear in your voice how tired/disappointed you are to report this crash, knowing Seuk knew the conditions prior to takeoff and just didn’t stay put. I’m sorry for his families loss, may he rest in peace!
getthereitis claims yet another pilot
I can already hear what Dan Gryder is going to say "Pick one: ...."
@@pulaski1and he’s right of course, I often choose to pick none. And I’m instrument rated, but a single is a single, even the Fiki ones don’t transform you into Superman.
@@unclefreddy2009it being a single seems to have played absolutely no part in the crash at all. Refusing to do flights that can be conducted with a decent safety margin and not getting the job done is not the sign of a good pilot like lots of people want to pretend.
@@zachansen8293That wasn’t in the video at all. He probably assessed it as safe enough and chose to do it. Nothing said that he was in any sort of a rush or couldn’t afford to stay somewhere overnight.
It could have been because it’s easier than finding somewhere for the dogs, but then it’s not just a matter of getthereitis but a reasonable factor to consider.
Flying in bad but safe conditions is not the sign of bad decision making. Staying in a motel room unnecessarily is
Very well said. He was quite popular in this area and no one seems to have been willing to discuss the chain of decisions made that led to this accident. You stated what needed to be said, clearly and respectfully.
@@larryvrooman4672 If people want to discuss them that’s fine, but do pilots really need to discuss the same things over and over? We already know what we should and shouldn’t do pretty well. I also don’t like pretending every time that someone crashes that it could have been any of us. Why pretend that everyone is equal to the worst? We know it’s not realistic to think that we are all equal to the best why can’t we acknowledge that some are better and some are worse than the majority?
I am not commenting on this person, just the general idea.
@@chrisnoname2725 It's not about having 100% applicability. It's about trying to decrease the worst. If it's not for you then great. Move on. But obviously there are others that need it.
Just because something isn't for you doesn't mean it's wrong.
@@zachansen8293 i was asking a question. Before these channels, did people bother to find the reports and read them?
I don’t remember anyone really caring when i was flying. We knew what we needed to do and just did it, we didn’t need endless cautionary tales.
Obviously nothing needs to be universally needed to be worth doing. I was questioning if we really need to analyse every single crash when as people have acknowledged, there are lots of nearly identical crashes for nearly identical reasons and normally doing things that we all know not to do. There’s no learning in those instances.
@@zachansen8293 those you think need it, aren’t going to learning from it anyway. Those on here that say they have learned something, i strongly doubt needed to learn because they seemed to have the right personalities to avoid these situations because of learning what to do and why and are responsible people.
@@chrisnoname2725 Yes we need to discuss the same things over and over if they keep happening. Clearly we are not learning, and every time something like this happens, it's a lesson for the rest of us. Rest in Peace to this man, and I'm sure he's a great guy. He just didn't make the best decisions that day.
Juan first I want to thank you for your efforts in analysis of these accidents. I continue to fly in GA, having recently retired from a 33 year airline career with GA prior, since 1974. You stated it well in this review on the Mooney dog rescue crash, in allowing " the mission drive the decision-making process " and IT IS CRUCIAL WE REMAIN EVER cognizant of not allowing outside factors to change our Core Safety Decision Making Process. I'm commenting as a hypocrite today, as back in 1981 I was a " single pilot night freight dog",..flying Cessna 310s in the worst of conditions, under pressure from management that ' mission accomplishment is imperative'. I miraculously lived through those years. I've learned from the worst of conditions many decades ago and moved forward from there to not allow "comfort to breed complacency". I thank the Good Lord above I'm alive today to convey. Thank you, Sir.
Capt. Edward A. Sarkisian
United Airlines
("Retired")
Exactly, Captain. “Good judgment comes from experience. But experience comes from bad judgment.“
@@edsarkisian4434 it’s much better to be pushed to learn than be coddled and think you’re perfect and everything is always the same. I had instructors that would get flustered when they were told to do something different to what they always did. They looked good on paper and they were very smooth at what they did all the time.
There’s a reason i had a young, new instructor doing the night training that those others didn’t do. More hours doesn’t mean a better pilot. They just rejected any jobs requiring any effort to try to look perfect
Spent a lot of time in an almost identical airplane. As amazing as this airplane is - it cannot withstand even moderate amounts of time in icing conditions. I got a clearance for a quick descent through a cloud layer into Seattle - and after only a few minutes I had severe ice on everything, but worst of all the propeller. I only attempted the descent because I knew the two thousand feet above the ground were above freezing. The aircraft became sluggish and not very responsive. Finally I got to the warmer air and the ice came off quickly. It was quite a lesson for me
Agree with everything you say @szendrenko. I have a few thousand hours in a J-model Mooney and those laminar flow wings cannot tolerate any icing at all before starting to provide reduced lift. RIP Seuk but he should have known that.
A good man, doing good work. Rest peacefully sir .
Very well said. Seuk was a friend, and I’m devastated by his loss. But we have to face the reality that he made some decisions that led to this tragic outcome.
I’m sorry for your loss 💔 I remember reading an article about him a year or so ago and being touched by his mission.
I lived near the area of the crash for many years and have hiked a lot of the trails. That last bit of ridge line near Windham Mt is deceptively steep combined with winds that can shift quickly as you cross to the northeast.
Juan - several observations. Just as it would be easy for me to get into trouble in the mountains of California, it's easy to get into trouble in the not as high mountains of NY state. The Catskills can be more dangerous than what many think. There's a reason the preferred routing up the Hudson Valley is on the east side, where the terrain is much lower. The day of this accident I was flying south of there in PA, along the route that Seuk took. There was a fairly strong shear layer at 2 - 3 thousand feet. No doubt mechanical turbulence over the mountains were a contributing factor.
As for Seuk's experience. I had messaged him several times over the last year, as he had purchased a Grumman I had considered purchasing a year ago this month. He had only recently transitioned to the Mooney several months ago. Whether this was contributing factor to the accident, can't say, but he was relatively new to the Mooney. Not sure what his total experience level was, but he did hold Commercial multi and single, and instrument ratings.
As for the route, back in my 135 days and flying the commuters in turboprops, you almost never flew in that area. If you look at the low-enroute charts, the preferred routing up and down the Hudson Valley is along the east side of the river, where the preferred airway is, and has much lower MEAs and MOCAs.
In your comment of building time towards the airlines. I don't think that was his goal. Looking at LinkedIn, it appears he had a career in public relations.
We all feel your frustration. I know I've been guilty of being 'mission minded.' Seuk was dedicated to the dog rescue mission. Unfortunately, I think his mission mind may have led him to push the limits of the machine and the weather
So obviously, the best decision was to postpone that flight. But after making the decision to go, probably flying IFR - as in “I Follow Roads” would’ve been a good decision to at least be able to have some type of visual contact with the terrain, especially if there was traffic and lighting along the roads.
I agree with Juan‘s conclusion. Likely CFIT, single engine & icing not direct causes other than preventing a higher altitude and instrument approach.
@@richardweiner6405 that’s what got him in trouble. He may have been better to go IFR (instrument)
I agree. But due to icing, he was likely unable to fly at the MEA/MOCA. My point is this - once he was in a situation where he was in the mountains over uneven terrain at night, flying over the roads would have given him more obstacle clearance (provided there were no wires or towers) and at least some reference to the ground to avoid flying into it.
Those of us in east coast dog rescue are absolutely heartbroken for this true hero for the dogs.😢
No need to yell with !!
@@PahrumpStop nitpicking people gripped by grief. Seek mental health services
@Shakaiharp Really... you need to fly stray dogs around? Get your fing priorities in order.
@@I_Am_Your_ProblemYou are clearly The problem here yes.
So you know what plenty of people in Europe have done? Traveled to get stray dogs from an actual warzone.
@@NotASeriousMooseI would suggest anyone who thinks that going into a warzone to rescue animals is a reasonable thing to be doing gets themselves evaluated.
I would even consider putting down injured animals as reasonable but to be transporting just strays is not sensible nor something anyone should be considering a priority.
It’s nearly as smart as the foreigners that went there and were posting the location of their training camp on social media.
Rest in peace, dear Seuk. What a terrible terrible loss. May you be with us all in spirit as we’re making weather calls, navigating our routes and altitudes, managing our birds and following our passions. ❤ 🐶 ❤
Safe flights to all.
Beautifully said ❤❤❤
I flew into unexpected icing conditions in IMC on a normal day in May in SoCal a few years ago and having experienced that once I now avoid it like the plague. A few years later I even turned around and RTB’d once because I was doing a night flight, on a cold evening, and couldn’t see if I would be above the clouds ahead of me. I was at 12,500 and OAT was reading 14F. I didn’t want to risk icing so I turned around and went back home. Ice is not something to be tested. Oh, and I was flying my 201 as well. My goal is to never be the subject of an NTSB report or one of Juan’s videos.
I lost a classmate and friend from the Air Force Academy shortly after we graduated. Icing in clouds at Colorado springs, pancaked in 1 mile short of the runway. His fiancé was with him and both tragically were lost.
GA airplanes are just not built to handle ice. I will never fly in clouds or visible moisture with flight level temps below 15C in a bug smasher.
Juan, Pretty much covers the whole ball of wax. So, so sad. This was a top tier man, with a wonderful family. He did a wonderful job. We have got to stop putting ourselves in these types of situations. Please fly safe guys!!
Mistakes never happen in your world? Single engine wasn’t a factor. Icing might not have been either if he successfully kept out of it. He could have just lost track of where he was or thought he was past the last of the mountains.
Nobody knows what actually happened but everyone wants to make out that the best pilots are the ones most determined to stay on the ground
I knew him personally he was a great guy with beautiful smile, funny caring, and makes you feel as if you were his best friend, even if you just met him. I’ve watched your channel religiously, never thought that I’d be watching a video about my friend. What a punch to the gut. so sorry he’s gone. I pray for his family.
I'm sorry for your loss.
Juan, you are saving an unknown number of lives, and teaching self awareness. We all thank you..
❤
Your account of this accident brings to mind a very similar one that claimed the life of a colleague and fellow flying club member and his two passengers back in 1979. They were approaching their destination of Livermore, KLVK, from the East at night under an overcast with rain showers. As in the case of the Seuk Kim accident, there was a final ridge, Altamont Pass, between them and the airport, which was VFR. I flew this route many times at night, and it has the surprising feature that you can clearly see the airport lights continuously while descending until suddenly you can't. At that point you are seconds away from the terrain. This same terrain claimed a second aircraft on the same night, which crashed a few hundred yards away. No GPS terrain database back then, but there sure is now. Use it!
For those conditions that was not the night to be out there in a Mooney. I've got well over 10,000 hours commuter time in New England. This time of year in those conditions you can go from just flying along in light precip to penetrating large supercooled water droplets in a heart beat. I've inadvertently encountered just that on several occasions where the ice buildup sounds like someone slinging wet mud at the airplane. Got pretty dicey in an airplane certified for known icing nevermind a Mooney. Condolences to his family.😢
Yep, 46 years ago, I flew canceled checks out of Albany in a Cessna 310Q with boots and a hot windshield. The WX can change in a blink of an eye; it's icing season now. And it looks like a good bit of lake-effect snow for the weekend. Calling for two feet or more in someplace.
Juan, thank you for the excellent review. Always thoughtful and in-depth. It’s jarring to hear about another pilot making terrible decisions. Surely Seuk watched your videos and others that also review accidents. For some reason, pilots keep stacking the risks until they die. Human factors and decision making seem to be a huge problem.
A thorough and very professional excellent analysis as always from you Juan. Thank you so much. Seuk was a well qualified and experienced pilot doing what he loved. It seems from many of the comments from those that knew Seuk that he may have enjoyed the challenge of the harsh conditions. He was doing so well up to the point of the disaster. It will be interesting to learn of the weather condition that finally overpowered him, possibly icing, wind shear or both. Such a sad loss to a kind hearted man. Condolences to his family. RIP Seuk.
@@christianpetersen1782 Nice to see a decent comment here and not the endless people wanting to condemn anyone for wanting to challenge themselves.
Thank you for the video, Juan! RIP to this man! He seems like an extremely compassionate soul that was doing good in this world! I'm sorry to his family for their loss! 💔
Such sad news to hear about Seuk and one of the dogs. Hopefully the other two pups that survived will be okay. Condolences and prayers of comfort to Seuk’s family. 🙏🏼 Thank you, Juan, for sharing yet another unfortunate example of what happens when too many odds are stacked against a pilot. A tragic situation that could’ve been avoided. 😢
Man, for some reason, this really hits hard. I mean, here’s a guy who has his commercial and instrument rating, and is doing community service. It’s such a shame. I hope his family knows that we are all praying for them. The aviation community is loving and supportive, and we will honor him by learning and becoming better pilots.
Gah! As a VFR night-qualified pilot, I always used a "3 strike" rule: when I had something adverse happen during a flight (e.g. cloud coverage greater than forecast, or fuel reserves going less than 1 hour daytime), I added a strike. If I got to 3, I landed at the closest appropriate airport. I only had it make it to 3 strikes twice, both times the destination airport was socked in for several hours after we diverted.
@@mikebridges20 Why do night VFR rather than IFR?
@@chrisnoname2725 You can get a VFR rating with a "day only" restriction. An IFR ticket is a LOT more work, and without a legit simulator it's really tough to keep a decent level of currency.
Thank you for your fair and honest reports. Your mission to communicate these reports helps keep eyes open. "A mind is like an umbrella - it works best when it's open."
I fly a lot in this area. His best option was to fly up the Hudson River from the NYC area to KALB. KALB is 285 ' msl. The river was only about 20nm to the east of the mountains with a lot of towns to provide reference points. Single engine and single pilot IFR at night over the mountains - no thanks. Around 5 PM I was to the east driving back to Albany, NY. As I looked to the west I could see what was going on in the Catskills . As I looked over that way I could see a lot of low level clouds and was thinking how threatening the weather looked. Also, why fly at night if you don't have to.
Thank you for at the end pressing the use of the credit card. I got my private pilot in NH and for years, every winter there was these iced up lawn dart crashes and IMC fiascos. New England and Upstate New York ain't the Sierra's but it's still mountain flying. Doing the flight at night into known IMC was nuts. Put the credit card down at the counter and take it up tomorrow morning!
I hiked that Black Mountain ridge trail in 1985 and saw a Cessna that had crashed the same way right on the trail...
We’ve all heard the axiom: “The job is easy if you have the right tools.” This big-hearted man simply had the wrong tool for the weather conditions at the time. I wish someone with more experience had been there at the departure point to insist that this pilot either delay his flight or hand it off to someone else with the “correct tool.” 😢
Sometimes these accidents hit harder than others...when I first heard of this crash I watched a newscast with Seuk's daughter speak about his passion for aviation and dedication to helping the dog rescue...what a loss. The only good that could come from this is if we all learn to avoid similar situations.
RIP Seuk Kim, condolences to the family. Its even more terrible that it happened during the holidays.
This is truly sad. I would see this fella's posts in one of my aviation FB groups. Such a class act.
I can tell this affected you. Im in tears as I read more about this man s selfless dedication.
Sad to hear. Thank you for your compassionate, professional reminders.
Wow! He could have landed at Stewart Airport (SWF) in Newburgh, or at least headed east as he crossed from PA into NY towards SWF and then flown up the Hudson, where he could have maintained a lower altitude. Choosing to continue over the Catskills in these conditions with low terrain over the Hudson available just 30 miles east is hard to comprehend. This is just sad. With all of the RUclips channels and podcasts that are constantly addressing civil aviation operations in these conditions, it is hard to understand how pilots continue to get themselves into these situations with alarming regularity. RIP.
Lost friends of mine in similar circumstances. Thank you, spread the word.
yup, same here. CFIT while scud running
I can't tell you how amazed I am to see how many grown ass adults make horrible decisions when all they had to do was just wait a few hours and make that flight during warmer daylight hours .
The Hudson River valley was nearby and a small dog leg to his path would have let him avoid the mountains entirely. Those mountains have claimed several airplanes over the years.
RIP Mr. Seuk. Thanks for trying to help dogs. This was pretty close to us here. So sad.
I'm about a hour north east of Albany, in Vermont. Close to me as well. Very sad, indeed.
This one broke my heart when I first saw it reported on local news. A good guy doing good deeds for dogs. Gotta be a special place in heaven for the pilot and the pup.
Indeed, and Juan's theme music, "Weightless" never more haunting than herein the closing credits...
@@paulmatley8818 I cry when it plays.
Unfortunately worshiping pets does not guarantee anything.
This is just sad. People glorifying a fool doing a fools errand.
@@mediocreman2 neither does worshipping the sky fairy
My grandfather who was a top turret gunner and flight engineer on a B-24 during ww2 with the 464th bg 779th bomb squad out of Italy....he used to say that when you get in a hurry bad things start happening or can happen
Condolences to the family and friends! RIP
Very sad loss...rare thing to find such a giving, dedicated man..
The moment a person makes a habit of repeatedly pushing the envelop, the more oblivious they become to apparent danger. Seuk probably had done similar flights before with success but sadly this night was different. Condolences to the bereaved.
My first cross country when training was KPOU. The reason I picked it, if I saw the Hudson River I’ve gone too far. If Seuk deviated a few miles to the east he could off flown right up the Hudson River to Albany at 2,000 for a straight in or an ils to rwy 01 Instead he was flying direct over the rising terrain. 😢 alb was 4o degrees 6,000 ovc 10 miles vis with scattered clouds at 2200-2700. He was probably flying direct with his GPS and trying to stay under the scattered clouds. It wasn’t terrible weather. flying direct with the gps was the mistake , if he flew east for 2 minutes he could fly up the Hudson River or call Atc and ask for vectors to the ils at Albany straight in or circle to land with wind down the runway
Hi Juan - such a sad situation... any time of year but especially hits you right around the holidays... I live on the fringes of the Catskills and volunteer as a summit steward / fire tower volunteer on one of the more popular peaks. The Cats don't get the press of the Adirondacks or the Whites / Mt. Washington etc. but their weather can be every bit as terrible as bigger mountains. A lot of the "mountains" are long ridges and escarpments and the elevation relief can be significant and without breaks between their various "peaks" along the way. During winter the lake effect bands off Lake Ontario can really slam into the northwestern higher terrain at the edge of the Catskills and produce conditions you'd normally see on much higher mountains. Definitely not an area to be underestimated...
ThankYou for sharing this. So sad that this happened.
single engine, night, mountains, IMC…pick two
-my instructor way back in 1996
We call that the, “three strikes” rule. This was four strikes 😬😬
As a retired NTSB GA accident investigator, you & Juan hit this nail on the head. I saw it far too frequently in my career. So sad for all involved
I've been told that same and so I've adopted that rule too. Put it to use recently flying in NC after the hurricane, whipped out the credit card instead.
Pick none--Dan Gryder.
Night and IMC seem close enough together. If you can't see the mountains, don't go near the mountains.
So sad. Thanks for doing these videos. For GA guys and gals it’s good to watch these videos to keep in mind how bad things can go so quick. Thanks again.
You gotta listen to that little voice inside your head saying “ is this a good idea?”
That voice is trying to save your life.
Or better yet, if you have to ask yourself that question you already know what the answer is
The drive that produces such amazing results can undo us if we aren’t careful. RIP Seuk.
This one really breaks my heart. Be safe out there.
This decisions made by this unfortunate pilot reminds me of a flight I completed during my flight training. I had my PPL and was building hours for my CPL. I had planned an afternoon flight to an airport nestled at the bottom of a valley with a town on one end of the airport and a lake on the other. I had planned an afternoon flight and arrive just before sunset to avoid night approach into an unfamiliar mountain airport. Well, I departed 45 minutes later than expected. Conditions were excellent VFR yet I was under pressure to arrive before dark. Things didn't go as planned and I arrived after sunset and had to do a night approach at a tricky airport along a valley with mountains to each side. Boy was I all nerves as I ensured I flew the pattern at exactly the prescribed pattern altitude and it took three missed approaches before I had the 172 settled on the VASI and plopped it down a little firmly but safely. Now if that was a night approach in IMC (if the airport in fact did have a GPS approach) I would have immediately aborted the approach and in fact would never have departed in the first place. The best decision you can make is when you are ON THE GROUND.
So sad. I was just talking to a pilot friend in CT earlier and one of the things we talked about is that he do not fall victim to thinking that the weather doesn't change this time of year and always do not fall victim to getthereitis.
CFIT seems to happen to experienced pilots who get used to the risks and lose perspective. I know others who have also flown perfectly good airplanes into mountains in similar conditions. All well experienced. On the upside it should help others do the things that are needed to steer clear of cumulogranite formations.
Blancolorio should be required study prior to any pilot that thinks they can fly in any wx just because they have the ratings.
Thank Juan. God bless you for your courage to report out on these accidents. It’s heartbreaking for sure.
GA continue to lose very good people due to very poor decisions. Each accident no less painful than the last. Juan's excellent accident reviews are almost certainly saving lives, but more solutions are needed......and I have no idea what those are.
We had similar accident here UK. We were flying around with a 1300 foot cloud base local area. Pilot transiting asked for cloud base then nothing more. We later found he descended into local 1400 foot hill, bang on his straight line track 15 miles from his destination. If only he had stayed at cruise to destination. That was a Mooney.
Juan thank you 🙏🏼 for your vids
Very sad. Thank you for the report Juan.
Absolutely tragic. RIP, pilot. Thanks, Juan.
As a non pilot I wonder why he would not fly up the Hudson River where the terrain would be much lower? Sad to lose a man doing good things. RIP
Thank you Juan for this painful report and your respectful coverage of this accident. This one hit me really hard to the point of failing to keep a dry eye. As a dog lover from birth anyone risking the hazards to save a dogs life is a hero to me and loosing such a wonderful person and pilot as Suek hits me hard. RIP Seuk my heartfelt thoughts and prayers to family and friends.
"loosing" :( :(
RIP - Tragic unnecessary loss. 🙏🏻
This one bothers me. I always thought an instrument rating was the ticket to flying in any weather. That is NOT the case for GA pilots. My wife used to say, "I thought you could fly in the clouds?" No we can't. Icing will kill you. Thunderstorms will kill you. But, scud running will kill you too. Don't get yourself trapped below icing conditions. Stay on the ground until conditions improve, and the forecast is for higher ceilings.
As always, thank you for the video.
So sad beyond words. Condolences to family and friends. Rest in peace.
Thank you for the video 👍😞
Part 91 allows pilot discretion and flexibility when sometimes our ADM is not up to the task. Many biases prevent us from objectively evaluating our own risks and it would've been good for him to have a trusted, impartial CFI or other expert aviator to help him evaluate this flight before takeoff. Personal minimums also work, as does a predeparture briefing (even if it's just talking to yourself) to discuss likely scenarios and pre-decide the course of action for each. - I (CFII/MEI) once flew with another instructor (CFI/MEI) and we decided to takeoff in daylight hours and stay below the clouds over/through gently rolling terrain, but set the floor at 1000' AGL and would immediately bugout up through the (freezing) cloud layer if we got squeezed or lost sight of the terrain. We knew the layer was relatively thin and we had plenty of power (Seneca II), but clearly the better decision would've been to wait it out. The Mooney's laminar flow wing won't take kindly to accretion and those 200HP feel mighty weak when there's drag on the airframe and you want to climb. I wish for a peaceful future for Seuk's family and I hope his legacy is reflected by the lives saved through "breaking out the credit card" and staying put when the mission should be scrubbed.
Thanks Juan. Confirms what I suspected when I first heard of this accident. If only he had flown up the Hudson river VFR he would have been fine. These events make me mad and sad. Totally avoidable with a little planning and thinking.
I have done countless public benefit flights (Pilots-n-Paws like this and others) and the get-there-itis can be a real challenge. I canceled the last PnP mission I was scheduled to do because the weather at my pickup was going to be potentially stormy. I got A LOT of pressure from one of the other pilots to do the trip, to the point we got in an argument, it was hard to stand my ground but I did. Later, I flew missions for Operation Airdrop in North Carolina after the hurricane and part of my pre-flight with my right-seater (my former CFII) was that we both had to be aware of the potential for get-there-itis and be ready to call each other on it if we saw the other possibly making a bad decision. My point in this diatribe is that if you're going to do these kinds of missions, YOU MUST TAKE VERY DELIBERATE MEASURES to be aware of, identify, and avoid the pressures and get-there-itis.
Way to make it about you
@@jameshuggins7320lol. There’s a lot of that here, but sometimes it’s just the best way to explain your point. In this case i am not sure
You didn’t tell us if the other pilot ended up being correct and you cancelled a flight because you’re unprepared to try things and deal with different situations and instead don’t even try unless there’s zero chance of needing to make a decision in flight. You only said there was a chance of storms. That’s not uncommon on a forecast and the day ends up being perfectly fine to fly.
The instructors at a school i went to wouldn’t fly if there was low cloud but safe and legal, it cuts down on flying days unnecessarily. They just didn’t want to risk putting effort in.
I on the other hand flew safely and legally on many more days than others. I am not stupid for putting in effort. It’s about being prepared to make decisions when needed.
Thank you Juan, you tell the sad story well. I sure hope others learn.
So unfortunate to lose a pilot this way. CFIT continues to be a major safety issue for us in GA. My prayers are with him today.
Thanks for the analysis, Juan. So sad, and such good work being done, RIP. Flying ain't like driving though...
As Dan G always says - pick 1 !
I am old now and chose to pick 0 !!
After I heard about this, I wanted to see what Juan had to say, and now, I wish I hadn't watched this. I love dogs, my sister rescues dogs. Is flying dogs for rescue actually a good thing? Does the cost to benefit work out? Well, in this case, NO. At least two dogs survived.
Great coverage of what we know so far Juan. This is so sad, and why why would he force this mission into a situation with five serious risk factors? God bless him and his family and friends.
Because that’s not how risk factors work. Clearly people watching this channel think that’s how they work but it’s just nonsense made up to employ useless people to base more nonsense off of.
Flying single engine has a risk, so you have maintenance and preflight procedures that make engine failures rare. In this case it didn’t matter. Flying at night is a risk for navigation, so we have navigation aids. Flying in imc is a risk so we have instruments and backup instruments.
We don’t know what caused the crash and it could have just been a mistake he made in the moment.
The only risk not mitigated and that possibly should have stopped the flight was icing. The others are already lowered to an acceptable level individually and added together. For me personally i still don’t like night without at least one extra engine and proper single engine performance but realistically it’s not that big a deal unless someone rare happens and then you could lose both engines at the same time due to a manufacturing fault. So they somewhat stack but not really.
In a workplace each risk is dealt with individually and the number of risks doesn’t matter, mitigating each one is what matters .
If i assume icing was the cause and was the only risk not mitigated then that could legitimately be seen as the thing to stop the flight going ahead. The rest is irrelevant.
Not everyone wants to just fly in perfect condition, some of us even enjoy a challenge.
Maybe the best pilots are those that never even tried. They will forever be safe from a plane crash
I also flew over the mountains on the 24th except I was in VFR in North Carolina Tennessee Kentucky beautiful evening in the air at the same time super sad 😔 prayer for his family and friends… I consider night flying the first strike on a 3 strike rule single engine at night is 2 of 3 anything past that is a no fly rule I don’t care if it’s superstition or any other strike weather wind ice clouds I forgot something on my way to the airport that’s enough to cancel that flight and wait for morning… really do hate to hear this for Seuk…
Very sad loss…..RIP sir…..
"All he had to do was clear this last bit of terrain and he would have had it made" Some times our destiny is not what we wish. His time here on earth was well spent.
I volunteer as a summit steward on a Catskill peak and there is a plane crash from the 1980s on "my" mountain... same deal - guy missed clearing the summit ridge by maybe a couple hundred feet... the Cats are tricky because they aren't really pointy mountains... more like bumps with long limbs and ridges - so if you're too low heading right at the mountain, you can very easily be too low out for a mile out either side away from the mountain...
I've driven many times from the Hartford, NY area to Albany, and it is a difficult drive in wet and foggy days, much less doing it at night in an airplane flying minimums.
Many have noted that night/obscured VFR should be treated as IFR. High time night 'VFR' is tightly restricted to extremely optimal conditions.
A few miles to the east of the crash site is the Hudson River. Plenty of room to descend. Elevation is about 400 feet above sea level. So sad.
Bummer. RIP good man.
I can't help but notice the data track goes directly over the 3990 ft label on the chart halfway between the 3800' and 3525' altitude ticks on the flight record. The 3990' point was to the right of the flight path, but not far.
A kind man trying to do a kind deed. I'm deeply sorry at his loss.
I knew Seuk , he was a great guy. Tragic loss.
Looking at the sectional chart, a flight path just 10 miles to the east of where he flew would have put him over the valley with two alternate airports available and at a lower flight altitude. Icing may have been an issue at this flight path also, but at 4 deg C at the surface, and flying at 1500 AGL might have saved icing. Still, too many uncertainties.
Well that's the thing: you take big risks and make it through a few times, then one day you don't. I'm not too far from there and there are many days in these conditions you really just can't fly. In the winter your IFR rating isn't of much use.
One of the little bunnies was found nearby in a hole he'd dug in the snow -- despite having two broken legs, the poor thing! The other surviving dog was found wandering around near the crash site and was barely injured, thank goodness. Both Whiskey and Pluto are expected to make a full recovery. But it breaks my heart that Seuk and the third dog did not survive. Seuk was a kind and generous man with an enormous heart.
I thought it was a dog rescue not a rabbit rescue?
Die for Bugs ????
@@scifikid108 I think they used the word bunnies as an affectionate term. I could be wrong.
@@Bright_Broccoli That's exactly right. I call pretty much any animal a little bunny -- an admittedly confusing habit I picked up from my daughter, who would call just about every living THING a little bunny.😊
This one is harder than most to process. It is easy to surmise the large amount of psychological reinforcement behind "completing the mission" that entered into the decision process for this pilot. The combination of a substantial history of successful flights, the routine nature of the process, and the the undoubtedly strong internal and external emotional rewards that come from the work he was doing can make postponing or canceling a flight difficult. To balance the psychological inertia behind the desire for mission completion requires a strong overt safety emphasis especially throughout the cultures of humanitarian and rescue flying.
This is super unfortunate. Look at that straight line, he knew what he was doing flying in IMC conditions… but it doesn’t matter how well you’re flying if there’s terrain in the way. 😢
ADS-B frequencies are approaching line of site unfortunately.
"How does it work? In the United States, ADS-B-equipped aircraft and vehicles exchange information on one of two frequencies: 978 MHz or 1090 MHz. Mode A/C and S transponders, as well as Traffic Collision and Avoidance Systems (TCAS), use 1090 MHz."
We had a rental van transporting approximately 30 pitbulls crash on the Interstate in Idaho a few years ago. A very sad scene that appeared to be due to the drivers falling asleep. Both drivers and several dogs killed. The trip originated from AZ and was going non-stop to MT or Canada. I think that dogs bring another level of get-there-itis. The logistics the dogs bring about probably compound a bad situation. Very sad.
That is really sad to hear. I used to transport for the Santa Fe shelter, mostly to Phoenix and Denver, sometimes to Best Friends in Utah which was a pretty long day. The animals definitely add distraction, and serious logistics issues if you get off schedule like an unplanned overnight.
So sad. My condolences go out to his family.
Just having a modern GPS,even an old Garmin 496 shows you terrain and indicates you height via Red,Yellow or green. I always have used mine in my usual western mountain flying. I don’t fly night single engine.
Exactly. There are lots of affordable tools out there today to show us where terrain is, even in IMC. I wonder if Seuk had any on board.
"Get there itis" is a very strong internal force to overcome. We have a natural tendency to want to complete our missions. That force needs to be balanced by Captain Lamplugh's famous words; “Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect.”
Ice above, terrain below - sadly when these converge, especially at night, the results are inevitable… eventually.
RIP, and condolences to his family.