RCA Victrola - A look at one of the great bargains in classical vinyl
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
- RCA Victrola is a budget label started by RCA Victor in the mid 1960's as a series that served to reissue many of the great recordings in the RCA Living Stereo catalog as well as important mono recordings. Many early stereo recordings that were only originally issued in mono made their debut in stereo on this label as well. RCA claimed that there was no difference in the quality of the records themselves, and the jackets are all of a kind, a collection in a library style which is very attractive. Of course stamper variations will come into play and as such not every one will equal or beat an original. At the very reasonable price they go for it's always worth a chance for me. Many of these titles I would never find otherwise, and most never received an audiophile reissue.
Today I will highlight a handful of these treasures to keep an eye out for.
00:00 Introduction
01:27 The Victrola Jackets
01:48 The Pressings
02:44 Some Recommended Titles
09:03 My Favorite Victrola
13:09 Conclusion
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I enjoyed your insights to the RCA Victrola pressings. I have some of them and agree with your observations. When you mentioned how you found your copy of Corroboree I just connected that you are the author of Listening Notes, a recording site I enjoy reading. In regards to the sound of the original pressings and the various reissues, have you read and heard Steve Hoffman discuss the virtues of the Westrex 45/45 cutting head used in the late 1950s and early 1960s and how the euphoric sound found on the vintage LPs is not on the tape? Here is a citation and link to that discussion.
Steve Hoffman states;
"I've seen all the Contemporary master tapes (well, a lot of them) and I've seen the mastering/cutting notes for them (stereo) and apart from the fine cutting style of Roy and Howard, the key, the serious key here is the Westrex 45/45 cutting system they used.
Before or after modded by Howard makes no difference. The Westrex system adds the magic you speak of. Same thing with the RCA-Victor Living Stereo cuts that we all love and collect.
No reissues have this extra magic. That is the sad truth.
Remove the vacuum tubed Westrex cutter from the equation, everything becomes, how you say? Normal again.
Remember how I've written about how the flaw (so called) in the Westrex 45/45 system (among other things) is the out of phase problem that happens around 8k? Well, that helps the magic. The solid state Neumann system got that out of phase goofy stuff up to 12k so pretty much unnoticable.
The beautiful distortions of the Westrex system are what make the early cuts sound so lifelike and wonderful, better than the actual master tapes.
Worth collecting, that's for sure."
forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/contemporary-records-70th-anniversary-reissue-series.1093420/page-131
Thank you for your excellent comment. I am going to pin it to the top because of the information you brought up. I have read that specific comment from Steve Hoffman regarding this and I'm so glad you linked it for others to see.
What he says does explain why this sound is lost on modern reissues of this material. I know he was referring to the shaded dogs, but it seems to be a factor here too.
Yes, Listening Notes was an early, but abandoned attempt to do a blog. It's still up, so cool you found it!
Great video! Thanks for sharing your knowledge on Classical titles. I have taken a little break from adding to my Jazz collection to build up a Classic music collection and your show has been a great resource!
Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed it. I too took a little break from buying new jazz reissues and have been delving into my classical collection to make some new videos, and I thought this would be welcome because there is so little out there on this series. Drawing from the Living Stereo classical catalog, there's a lot of gems here for very little money. I hope you can find a few and try them out!
I am fortunate that a lot of the local thrifts have Classical titles that remain overlooked even during this time of renewed interest in vinyl. Just last week I was able to get 17 titles which included a number of Living Stereo, Phillips (Holland), Decca (England), EMI (England), London (Made in England) and a Deutsche Grammophon 9 LP box set for less than $7!
In addition to reissuing performances from RCA, they also released for the first time the complete Beethoven Piano Sonatas played by Claude Frank. They're wonderful performances that I've only been able to enjoy on CD, although I do own them on LPs. The problem was the quality of the LPs which were all too often warped. There was also an excellent series of all the Schubert piano sonatas on Victrola from around 1970 as played by Paul Badura Skoda. There were several authentic instrument LPs on Victrola, some of whom I believe originated on German Harmonia Mundi. One was the Collegium Aureum playing two Mozart Divertimentos (absolutely wonderful performances), another with Badura Skoda & Demus playing Schubert music for piano four hands. Another two LPs featured Elly Ameling and Jorg Demus performing Schubert and Schumann lieder. Thanks for the video about RCA Victrola. They were a wonderful label, as you said.
Thanks for shedding some light on the Victrola reissues that were licensed from other labels. I have some of these and used to view them indifferently as they were not original RCA recordings, but now I must take a closer look and listen to them. I do love Harmonia Mundi as a label and didn't realize that was where these odd later Victrola reissues came from.
Hi - thanks to this video I put a Strauss - Also Sprach Zarathustra in my Discogs cart and got it today. Fantastic! Keep up the great recommations!
Hi Jason!
Thanks for getting back to me! That's a great example of RCA's two mic stereo. You have one of the best performances if this piece. Glad that you liked it!
I didn't know that concertos are sometimes better in mono, I'll have to keep that in mind! excellent video as always
They can be only because on the stereo the soloist is often out of proportion to the orchestra. The mono mix is sometimes more cohesive.
Hi Scott ! I just ordered Symphonie fantastique by Berlioz conducted by Monteux , looking forward
Great video, I am always learning something new with your videos. I don't collect much classical but pick up the Living Stereos, Mercury's and London blue backs when I find them cheap. I had just passed on a bunch of theses Victrola pressings, but due to your video went and picked up the plum colored Indianapolis ones. Will give them a listen. Thanks for all your insite, keep up the great videos.
Thank you!
Certainly it's usually inexpensive to give them a try if they look nice and are music you might be interested in. The Classics and APs might be good choices for the most popular titles, but the Victrola line is great for records that went out of print quickly in their original form. I'll be interested to hear if you found any you like. A good cleaning is always recommended of course.
I love the intro. Have some of these victrola unfortunately I see a lot of them with the pink label on thin floppy vinyl. Thanks for reminding us to stick with the plum colored label
I do prefer the plum label, heavier Indianapolis pressings in general, but there could be good pink label pressings as well. I didn't get into it here, but I have a few, some on floppy discs, and although those can be very quiet, it's hit or miss.
This is a fun series because it's so inexpensive. Not too painful to try a few.
One famous one only in pink label is Overtures and Dances, a collection of recordings from Reiner/CSO. It was on the TAS Superdisc List. That one is VICS 1424. It was also reissued by Classic.
Thanks for shouting out this series. I do find Victrola noisier and less seminal as recordings than RCA Red Seal of course. I tend to stick to the latter
Yes in general, surfaces are better on Red Seal, but it's just a cool series that I wanted to highlight. There are many that I didn't show that are nearly impossible to find in the LSC series, many had one run and that was it. With a good cleaning, the VICS counterpart is a decent option to get that title for very little money.
Nice intro. Excellent video on wonderful Victrolas. Your collection never ceases to amaze!
Thanks Anthony! I may need to tweak the music so that it's more universal? But it's nice that my housemate Marco came up with something fresh. It's a bit of a shock to me!
“With Scott Wilson” slants upwards slightly. On purpose? Yes, maybe some cool jazz piano trio usually goes down well and is universal.
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Very enjoyable video, Scott (and cool new intro). I’ve maybe a dozen Victrolas but with the UK release sleeves and I always keep a lookout for more in charity shops etc. They do sound marvellous and it shows that you don’t always need to spend big money on building a classical collection.
I've always admired the U.K. sleeves for these with their lamination and bold colorful modern art. Just as pretty, but in a much different way. I don't have a lot of experience with them, but I would think the Decca recorded titles could possibly sound great at the very least. Pressing quality was nice too as usual for the U.K.
Great review as always , i must look out for these albums
Thanks! For the couple of dollars they cost it's always worth a try. Especially titles that haven't seen a vinyl reissue since the original red seals. There's quite a few that fall into that category!
@@ThePressingMatters thanks Scott will keep you updated of the hunt ☺
Like the new intro change is good. I'm not really a classical music fan. might get the Arthur fiedler since I'm from boston.But I feel like I learned something from these videos that you do. Thanks, scott. Happy Father's Day if it applies
Hi Chris,
I'm glad you liked the intro! I may tweak the music a bit. It's so lively, it's kind of a shock to me lol.
I am from the Boston area, just an hour north, and went to school there. I started collecting classical in Boston. I loved being in a college town then (1981) because there was so much music everywhere. Rock, Punk, Disco, Classical and Jazz, both live and on records. Great memories. That Pops record is good but an acquired taste! Stream first if you are not used to classical, even though it might be considered pop classical.
I have never set eyes on one of these! However, by some strange twist every time you introduce something, or it is introduced on the Classical Live stream low and behold they appear. Whether its new information on my part or voodoo I neither know nor care... 🤣Looking forward to hunting these down. Great video as always. I have to say I do like the stylish music of the ORG intro.
Thanks for your honest opinion on the intro. I like the graphic well enough but I agree, the music doesn't quite fit. I'll be working on options.
Thanks for your honest opinion on the intro. I like the graphic well enough but I agree, the music doesn't quite fit. I'll be working on options.
It's funny that now y that you've become aware of these, that you may start seeing them! Funny how that happens!
Worth a try if they are inexpensive.
I give the Monteux-Vienna PO Brahms 2nd on Victrola a big thumbs up (VICS 1055).
I'll clean mine up and give it a spin! Thanks for the tip off!
I bought most of my RCAs first on Victrola and I thought they sounded great. I was a junior high and high school student on a budget.
I loved most of the psychedelic jacket covers...especially the Bartok Concerto for Orchestra and the Strauss Also Sprach.
Hi,
Thanks for watching and commenting. I found most of mine years later, in the late 80's and early 90's. Many were found in thrift shops as well as record stores. I don't think I ever paid more than two dollars for any of them. I eventually bought original shaded dogs and reissues from Classic and others, but I'll never let go of these. The ones I've recently cleaned ultrasonically have really elevated them. They do have a certain beauty that the modern reissues can miss.
Hi Scott,
Great intro! Awesome video
Iam in the hunt. Thank you for the great video and content.
Bravo 🎉
Thank you Joey!
What a collection you have man. 🤯
Thanks! I was very fortunate to be collecting at the right time - the start of the CD era. Most of these were a dollar each!
I haven't been out to the thrifts and estate sales in years but I imagine collections are coming out from collectors that no longer need them. Worth keeping an eye out for sure!
@@ThePressingMatters After hunting through eighteen crates of Classical Vinyl. I found one RCA Victrola! Beethoven/Wagner with Pierre Monteux. NZ pressing, has that lovely smooth edge and sounds incredible. Thanks again Scott. The voodoo is still working. 😁
@raywelsh5335 Very cool! I have that one too! Glad you took a chance on it. What was the jacket like? Like the US pressings or the UK?
@@ThePressingMatters Jacket looked exactly the same as you were showing. Dark violet/plum label.
@ThePressingMatters actually let me check that the cover is the same. Looking back at your video maybe not. Same type of colour scheme but yours look sharper. The typography looks different. The central image is of Monteaux and has a rounded edge border!?
Thanks for yet another enlightening video, Scott. 👍👍👍 I wasn't aware of the sonic value of this series. I've certainly seen them around for years and didn't think much of them. With this wonderful revelation, I'll keep my eye out for them in the future.
Thank you!
I do have a fondness for this series. Perhaps because they had titles which I simply never came across in original pressings. Making comparisons is understandably impossible for most of us, yet because they are so well made, often found in mint condition, inexpensive, and were done just a few years after the shaded dogs, I find them to be a great value. It certainly doesn't cost much to take a chance on something that is unobtainable otherwise.
Thanks so much for watching!
@@ThePressingMatters Sure, you bet. I figure that I can pick these up for around $2 or less in many instances. Part of the reason why I'm interested in classical is the great value of these records. I've found a few of the ones you showed in nice shaded dog originals. I never cease to be amazed at how some of the truly greatest music ever made can be purchased in analogue era pressings for so little. You and I are blessed to have such excellent taste in music. If you're a dad, Happy Father's Day!
@@audiophileman7047My days of hunting out classical records were so enjoyable. Bargains everywhere, often times great condition, and a wonderful learning experience. I'm no expert on classical music, but this was a great way for me to learn about composers, conductors, engineers and labels. The music has made my life richer. I hope others are inspired to have a similar journey as we have.
@@ThePressingMatters Well said. There's still a lot I don't know, but I'm catching up pretty quickly. It's still worth going out to look. Grails can be found in the most unlikely of places. I also believe that forgotten treasures and gems can be found. That's still a lot of fun and rewarding as you said.
@@audiophileman7047 You might find a bunch of grails in my garage!
I have the Reiner Zarathustra from this series. Havent heard the original living stereo but this one sounds incredible!
I have that one too, and it easily could have been included here. I have many original shaded dogs, but not that one! Very rare to find. I do have the Classic of that and honestly I think I prefer the Victrola.
Thank you so much for watching and commenting.
That was one of the later ones after they had dropped the matte textured library look. As the series wore on, toward the end, it seemed like there was no focus on the artwork, and the art drawings were dropped in favor of more modern, and pretty awful 'artwork'
@@ThePressingMatters I have the AP/QRP reissue of the Reiner Zarathustra (which is still in stock at Acoustic Sounds). If either of you have heard both, how does the QRP compare to the Victrola, or to the Classic?
@@rc2257 I don't have the AP, but I'd be happy to compare the plum Victrola, the Classic 33 and the .5 series pressings. I'll let you know!
@@ThePressingMatters That's super nice of you Scott, but please don't go to the trouble on my behalf. You already put a lot of thought and effort and prep into these videos, keep doing that and I'll be more than happy!
Hi Scott! Thanks for another great video.
You've mentioned the Degritter in a number of videos now. What do you think about it? You're borrowing it, right? Would you ever buy one?
I bought one two years ago. I winced at the price, but as soon as I had it, any qualms about the price disappeared. It does an amazing job, and it's ridiculously easy to use.
The first record I cleaned with the Degritter was an original pressing of Herbie Hancock's Headhunters, which I purchased myself when I was a 13-year-old aspiring jazz pianist. I didn't handle records very well back then, and I never cleaned them. When I got back into vinyl after a 3-decade diverison into CDs, I cleaned Headhunters in a Pro-Ject VCS, one of the wet-vac type cleaners. That helped. But after running it through the Degritter, Headhunters had more life, energy, and warmth than ever before. Since then, I've cleaned hundreds of records, including every new record I buy. On most of my older records, the SQ improvement from the Degritter is usually not as dramatic as I experienced on Headhunters, but it's almost always quite noticeable and better than when I've used other methods of cleaning records. And occasionally, the SQ improvement from the Degritter is dramatic, like getting a cart upgrade.
Besides doing a phenomenal job cleaning, I freaking LOVE that it's soooo easy to use. Literally push a button, walk away, come back to a perfectly clean and dry record. As a result, I am cleaning a LOT more records than I ever did with the wet-vac machine, which requires me to operate it. I can easily clean a dozen records in the Degritter while grading a batch of exams (I'm a professor now), I absolutely could not with the wet-vac machine.
That's really what makes it worth the price. For 9 months a year, I am working 55-60 hours a week, and don't have the time/energy to clean more than a few records per week on the wetvac. But I can clean an unlimited number on the Degritter, while I'm doing schoolwork.
Lastly, I can justify the spend because the price was about 5% of the estimated value of my collection. 5% seems like a reasonable amount to invest in protecting my record collection and making them sound their best.
I hope you are doing great.
Warmest regards,
Ron C.
Hi Ron,
So good to hear from you! Hope you are doing well.
Yes, the Degritter is a MK1 that was traded into my dealer when the client bought a MKII. He had planned to sell it on, and happened to come right from picking it up at the client to my house. So we set it up and tested it. We both were very impressed, and he left it for two days before he decided he couldn't live without it!
He brought it by another time and I cleaned a bunch of things up for review.
I had the same reaction. I must have one of these units. It's essential. The ease of use is wonderful. I love it for new records. It can really help my older records too.
The price is steep but I'd rather this model than a Humminguru.
It's just what I've been looking for.
I think you were in the right track with this and a Sugarcube.
Makes vinyl life a lot more fun and rewarding!
Fascinating video I have about 30 of these Scott but always thought they were inferior till you pointed out their Quality! I didn’t realise Corroboree was an Australian only release!!
Thanks Andrew,
I kind of cherry picked ones that are very quiet and that I feel have the best stampers. The US Indianapolis are pretty good, but in some cases are inferior to the Red Seal. I don't think the differences are as dramatic as some have painted over the years. I have heard a few UK ones and again it's a case by case basis. Which country are yours from? Maybe clean a few up and give them a fresh listen!
Yes that EMI had its only vinyl release in Australia. That it was featured on the TAS list for years drove up the price also. I'm still baffled no one has been able to do a nice reissue of it.
This is the background to the first Australian version, The Everest was re-recorded with LSO and Gossens : On 5 December 1950, in a recording ‘supervised’ by the composer, who would otherwise have been a member of the ABC’s recording team, the 77-member ABC Sydney Symphony Orchestra under Eugene Goossens recorded a ballet suite from 'Corroboree’ in the Ashfield Town Hall for His Master’s Voice. Originally issued on two 12” HMV discs, ED 1193/4, the music was subsequently transferred to LP, HMV OALP 7503.
The ABC Weekly of 23 December 1950 described the scene in the Ashfield Town Hall, noting that 'triple recordings of “Corroboree” were made simultaneously: two by PMG landlines to the recording company’s studios in Homebush and the ABC’s city studios, and one at Ashfield upon an EMI Magnetic Tape Recorder’. This latter unit gave instantaneous playback and allowed the conductor and orchestra to hear their work through loudspeakers, re-recording unsatisfactory passages until all were satisfied. The recording process took five hours in total.
The EMI you have is the 1977 with Lanchbery and Sydney Symphony, this was indeed an Australian pressing.
Could it be the master tapes are still in Australia ?
Great information! I love all the background on the first recording. I had no idea!
It seems the tapes would be in Australia, and that any AAA reissue would be a challenge due to that
Scott since u liked Corroboree, how about real Aboriginal music available on Decca vinyl it’s pretty spectacular ruclips.net/video/E-ETnhrQE0I/видео.htmlsi=h48w6Y3W4fPs-qDn
Hi Scott this is a recent Aboriginal lp released by Decca which is not dissimilar sound to Corroboree: ruclips.net/video/WVogqJRSzlY/видео.htmlsi=dJGOXCkeaFpjtjwX by Gurrumul who passed away in 2017 2 weeks after he finished it and released 2018 I think u will find it interesting !
Love the intro
Thanks my friend. I might toy with the music and volume, but it is nice to try something different.
I love anything with vibes. Good to change things up
Ok so I usually skip victrola pressings when I see them while hunting… you’ve convinced me to give them a shot. These are very plentiful around the motor city and usually in decent condition. Great video
@@mporentas Wouldn't hurt to give it a try. You should be able to get clean plum labels for a few dollars, and if it's a title you love it's worth trying.
I always pick up the stereo Victrolas when they are in good shape. Another great video. PS. I like the intro. 🙂
My associate Marco designed it for me in an afternoon! I tried not to interfere,,but I may choose music that would work across all genres. Still it's pretty lively after the rather somber one we're all used to!
@@ThePressingMattersDo you store your record jackets in sleeves?
@vinylrules4838 Yes, of course. I simply remove them when doing a video or taking photos for cutaways to avoid glare and reflection. I'm using VSS sleeves for all my new or newly cleaned records and working my way through.
@@ThePressingMattersThanks!
What are the differences you notice that make you prefer the Indianapolis pressings versus the Rockaway and Hollywood pressings?
Good question. It seems to me this plant had better machines, higher vinyl quality, heavier pressings, nicely finished as far as the edges, center holes, and quietest surfaces. It just seems someone there cared about the result. Hollywood not so much.
To my knowledge promos were always done at Indianapolis. Makes sense for promo records to be top quality.
I also found this across the Readers Digest sets that RCA pressed.
1. Indianapolis
2. Rockaway
3 Hollywood
Rockaway did press decent quality record but they weren't like Indy.
Wonderful piece Scott. Always wondered where the VICS series fit in. Any idea where to find a discography of these issues?
Hi Robert,
There might be something online but for a comprehensive cross reference with the Living Stereo line, check out this book in my storefront.
This link takes you to the store, and search under reference books section for the RCA Living Stereo book by Kim Weston
www.amazon.com/shop/thepressingmatters
@@ThePressingMatters I do have the book by Kim. Lot of stuff in there. Still looking for the elusive RCA Bible. Can’t believe it never got reprinted as any Living Stereo fan desires it. I really enjoyed your latest feature on the VICS discs as I have come across many of these lately in thrift shops and always snag them. Now I know the quality is very good and not a budget throwaway. Cheers!
@@bobsink44 I did find a copy of the RCA Bible after decades of looking. It's literally a photo copy. But I was so thrilled to get it.
This series is like anything - a case by case basis - certain stampers can sound better etc. But when you hit it right it can be amazing.
The Golden Age of RCA Records by James Mitchell provides a list of VICS releases. It's still available at Irvington Music. I attached a link.
www.irvmusic.com/mitchell.php
Yes, those Victrola series reissues are relative bargains. They can be had quite cheaply compared to their Red Seal counterparts. However, unlike the "Miracle Surface" vinyl used for the Red Seals, the stuff they used for the '60s Victrolas tended to result in noisier background surfaces. However, the '70s reissue Victrolas are surprisingly quieter.
If I may, let me also add that the few Classic Records classical titles I kind of hated. They were dynamic, but I thought they were too bright. I didn't love their tonality. And I found that all of Bernie Grundman's mastering from that period often to be too bright in all the genres.
Hi Jeff,
Yes the later, pink label and Dynaflex are often quiet as can be. I personally have found the plum label originals to clean up very well. I was delighted when I had the opportunity to clean the last two I showed on the Degritter that Oz brought over. Surprisingly quiet, if not quite up to the the best original shaded dogs. I just think they are a very cool series. I have multiples of many, always searching for the best one. For a couple of bucks, why not.
Anyway, thanks for your comment!
Take care!
I have the same 45 Clarity Vinyl of Corroborree. It was pressed SOOOOO off-center. You can imagine the amount of wow that reoccurs with every 45rpm rotation. Oy.
Oh you mean the Everest Corroboree in the red box? Yeah, I don't have that but I have three Clarity vinyl boxes and not a fan of that vinyl formulation.
The Classic orchestral records by Bernie were a mixed bag. I prefer originals and even Victrolas for the better tonality. Yes the Classics are more dynamic but I rarely listen to them today. Like you I don't care for bright sounding records.
Hi Scott a great video with impeccable timing as I did consider covering UK pressed Victrola on my Red Seal UK pressings video from last week but it would have made it too long. Of the UK Victrola pressings I’ve picked up the Plum grooved ones are repressings of the Decca pressed Red Seal original releases they nearly always carry the tax code from the original year but can sometimes have a second one added from the period of the repressing. Nearly always can sound very good and in consequence rarer to pick up than the pink label Victrola which are new Decca masterings and dependent on the quality of the tapes obtained for this. Most of these are disappointing but I will occasionally still pick up one and give it a go. I was impressed by a 1973 copy of Reiner Respighi Fountains/Pines with a photo of Trevi fountain on cover mastered by Tony Hawkins. I suspect it would be annihilated by a modern remastering but most excellent for a few pounds and probably the only one of the pinks I’m not giving back to the charity shop ecosystem.