Eurovision 2024 Was the Worst, but It Was Still Pretty Great
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- Опубликовано: 14 май 2024
- When all the artists seem relieved Eurovision is over, you probably could have done a better job running it. But even as the whole thing nearly melted down, we found a lot of songs and performers to love.
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for Germany last year, and Norway this year, I think the problem was not the folk music, but that the rock loving voters massively favoured Baby lasagna and Käärijä.
I mean voting for more than one country is an option, i did favor baby lasagna, but i did sent a couple of votes for Gåte as it was my #2 overall.
What also likely hurt is a ton of astroturfing voting for Israel. This politically driven and organized vote brigading of non-Eurovision watchers and even non-music listeners has massively skewed points to Israel who had a very mid song.
Without that, Israel wouldn't even get 2/3 of the Televote points they got at best, so these points would have been spread differently all over.
@@CroGamer002what’s incredibly funny about the whole ordeal is that Eden Golan’s song got slaughtered by the Israeli media and public when it was initially picked - not because of its themes or messages, mind you, but simply because most people thought it was weak from a musical perspective. I don’t think any person who is actually Israeli would care even if they ended up doing way worse with the televote - in fact, I’d say most of them were expecting it.
@@MarshallsEmporium True, but I wouldnt be surprised if the majority of voters just vote for one country and that vote spreading like you did is relatively rare. (just my opinion tho, i've got no evidence to back this up)
@@CroGamer002People in the UK, who have never watched Eurovision, even admitting this on the radio.
Here in the Netherlands most of us were absolutely gutted when we found out Joost was disqualified. Hearing the love for Joost from everywhere around the world and the little things like Estonia saying "Dankjewel" at the end of their Grand Finale performance was incredibly heartwarming.
We don't know yet if we'll be back next year, but I hope next year will be better than the disaster it was this year.
This year was not a disaster. Netherlands left a very clear mark on this competition, a mark that can be interpreted in different ways. In the eyes of many Joost is the hero of this years Eurovision. Please, dear Dutch people, be good to him and help him heal after all that has happened.
The hero of the eurovision? He assaulted a woman!
@@alexm9148oh don’t you worry, we absolutely love him.
One of our Radio stations player Europapa for over 30 minutes straight because people kept requesting it, and the DJ’s happily obliged.
Ik hoop dat we iig 1 jaar stoppen.
I was gutted mate
11:07 - I'm so glad you posted this footage. Croatia is celebrating Marko like he is the king of our country. We made him cry with joy; he didn't expect so many people to show up to celebrate his win.
Just today, his concert tickets sold out in 4 minutes.
I'd love to check out his concert one day, hopefully he'll be able to go near me.
@@TheOrian34 He already sold out concerts, first one in september in Zagreb, but already announced a concert in Amsterdam
@@lemonstealinghorse Yeah hopefully there's more to come.
Thank you all good people 😊God bless you 🙏❤️
Even crazier, his first concert sold out in FOUR MINUTES.
Netherlands disqualification is where everyone started joining together more than ever against the unprofessionalism of the ebu
United by Music, was it?
Except for the thugs coming together to bash Joost and pushing the popular vote for Israel.
And what did you feel was unprofessional about the EBU?
He was disqualified because he attacked a crew member!!
@@m.s.6586 wrong. he didnt attack her. thats a rumour. dont believe everything you see.
@@m.s.6586not exactly he made a gesture towards her phone after she was filming him several times against his will, it wasn’t his intention to do it and he apologied immediately after it. both should have known better, the tension behind the scenes was very high,which led to unpleasant situations, We are all humans people make mistakes.
As a kid whose dad also died, and who also dreamt of Eurovision but gave up on pursuing music after school bullying gave me social anxiety, and then spent years fleeing from my pain and trauma by traveling Europe... Europapa and the whole Joost thing has kept me up at night.
When I found out Joost was not in the final, I felt that sinking feeling as if it had been me who had been disqualified. Because damn did it both break me and also heal me to see someone smiling and dancing so happily with that same pain I grew up with, and him almost fulfilling my childhood dream, and then that dream being completely crushed.
It's affected me so much that I even started writing a song about my own dad yesterday. I've been afraid of speaking or even thinking about my dad and his death, but everything that happened made me feel like I have to do it. The pain won't ever go away, but now I see it can be turned into absolute bops that make others feel less alone, and I want to do that.
This year's Eurovision united us against the EBU, which is hilarious. But most importantly for me, it united me with music, and maybe music can unite me with my dad and that little orphan kid in me, too.
thanks for sharing you story made me tear up a bit ❤ wishing you all the best
That is beautiful! Keep doing that, I can imaging it helps with the healing, if there is ever one after that loss.
Thank you for your words. It's great to see how music can give people hope and comfort. Sending hugs and love 🤗
Thanks for sharing your story! Don't give up on your dreams. Joost showed us all that you can achieve anything you set your mind to. Continue to write about your own life journey, and hopefully, we will see you on the stage at eurovision ❤
I can relate to this deeply, my mom died the day the song by Joost was first shown. Of course I didn’t see it that day, but a week later when I did I was about to play it at her funeral, if it wasn’t other people deciding on music too.
The lyrics have multiple levels which resonate deeply.
I’ve been watching the ESC from an early age, remembering that the broadcast was stopped once in the Netherlands because of a major fireworks disaster back then. I was mad for it being replaced, for I wanted to see all the performances. My love grew bigger after moving to Sweden and seeing how big it is(second semi-interval act=> genious!!)
And then to see him disqualified would maybe be like if Usain Bolt would have been disqualified for the finals sprint running during the Olympics when he competed, or my football club during the champions league.
I was heartbroken, crushed, devastated
I’m so happy you made this new award, to honour him. Thank you💙🇳🇱🇪🇺👨🏼
Dutch private broadcaster RTL is conducting a poll about whether the Netherlands should return next year. Last I saw, 67% voted no and 26% voted "only if Joost can compete", leaving a measly 7% yes
No please! , I hope they find a way to make it up for Joost and Ducht people and all the fans of joost. A public declaration to clean up his image after the first few hours where nobody knew anything but there was this rumor about a female staff and some aggression.. and they let the people go with that… after that , DQ, o my god they have done so much wrong, and they need to do a very big gesture. I like Dutch entries!!
@@martinnur The minimum apology would be an automatic Q for the Netherlands next year.
Europapa as the official theme song of Eurovision door the next 5 years would be the start of an apology.
Together with the firing of the board and a repayment of costs.
@@user-bt5mk3fe9sIt’s not a great song. Switzerland is actually better.
Good. Any country that sends a russia-lover like Joost should not compete anymore. Israel too, did you know that Eden Golan is from moscow and illegally visited Ukraine? Even before 2022 she supported the war. And Joost did it after 2022. So he can keep doing shows in russia that he loves so much.
I get that Norway's Ulveham is far from being everyone's cup of tea, but many of us love it transcendentally, and it was, needless to say, undeserving of the last place during the Grand Final.
Absolutely. I loved it.
From what I have seen it tended to end up in 12-15 place spot for most juries and televotes, which gives it 0 points across the board almost. That means that a far worse country that say is placed last by almost everyone, only needs a couple of good scores to beat it. The point system is flawed - it really punishes acts that are a bit more niche and didn't catch some wave of hype.
Them and Estonia deserved a far better finish. Both were awesome.
As a Norwegian myself, it wasn't the song I'd have voted to represent us. It's not bad but for me it became too noisy and scream-y at some point.
BUT- on my own list of the placements, Norway was at around 12th on the list. So I was a bit amazed how some of the other songs got more points, some songs were incredibly boring and just sad.
@@RunicTitanLike Portugal, Slovenia and Serbia
Can we please give a Joost Klein Award to Iceland 2021, for having to stay in the Covid-hotel-room?
Yeah, I agree. That was sad
If we are giving retroactive Joost Klein Awards, i nominate Aline Lahoud with 'Quand Tout S'Enfuit' who should have gone to ESC for Lebanon in 2005:
ruclips.net/video/-MprNsiDaX4/видео.html
They should get it twice!! 2020 was just as sad! They had a brilliant song that would have won that year
jan with gladiator too!! he was supposed to compete last year for poland but they rigged the votes so he couldnt win. He technically won tho
And Montaigne from Australia!
I have never heard of Olly Alexander before Eurovision. I honestly think they overestimated how many people outside UK knew Olly Alexander.
I think we overestimate the popularity and recognizability of Olly Alexander. Very few people in Europe outside EU knew him. His presentation was very special but his voice very weak so, I think, the result is not that surprising.
And him being English does not help; lots of people have negative bias because 1) History and 2) them automatically going in the finals and it feeling un-earned
I think it has more to do with people that listen to that kind of music(Years and Years) tend to not have an interest in Eurovision. They prefer indie pop.
It really wasn't that. For instance, my friends and I love both years&years and eurovision.
It's more like that we hated the song. When the audio version came out a couple of months ago we were all very disappointed.
I only knew the Years&Years song King, so I think if anything, he is mostly known as a one hit wonder in the rest of Europe. And that was with the band, so how much of that is left without other two members? So eurovision was a way to rebrand him to a solo act and quite obviously so and I don't think people react to that very well. I also don't think the staging did him any favors, especially the grungy shower look and it being mostly in a box.
Honestly I was hoping Luktelk would get more votes but I guess 14th is pretty good
I was hoping it too. I hope Lithuania will keep sending songs in their native language. So much more authentic
It was the first one I liked in the semi finals, but yesterday I had it playing all day. I'm so glad I voted for it in the final since I nearly didn't, I adore it!
I think Sylvester just got screwed on his running order position. 14th is great but if he’d been later in the running order I think it would’ve done better. Plus I don’t know if this is just me knowing the context or what, but he seemed visibly lower energy, almost sad in his grand final performance and he later said on twitter that it was traumatising going on straight after Israel with everything that had been happening and with the crowd in such uproar - the booers trying to outdo the cheering and the atmosphere being so unpleasant. I think he should be very proud of what he achieved but I feel bad for him, I think he could’ve placed better had he not been screwed by the order. They should’ve put Lux after Israel.
listening to this one and estonia on repeat since days :)
Luktelk is in my "Returning to home at night" playlist.
Norway being last is criminal
Love the appreciation for Fulenn here 💚 Also, Dons from Latvia needs a shout out for everyone severely underestimating his power!!
He seems to me such a genuine nice person. There is this clip from all candidates and Joost is just being silly, next to him, and he looks at Joost, and gives him his hand, and genuinely really nice. After the finals. He was only a few, who was really nice about Joost, and said, please tell him to answer my call I really would love to talk to him.
I loved Fulenn too!! I just found out about this account little over a week ago. There’s so much to find here! I love it!
His song grew on me. It seemed pretty basic, but I found myself vibing to it halfway through. And he seems like a sweet guy.
@@helenaterschegget8791 Honestly seeing that clip, I was surprised at how nice he seemed to be. Really down to earth to.
yes! i loved the simplicity and how good the song was
The entirety of The Netherlands is still in awe of what has happened.
Multiple sketches about the EBU & Eurovision and a lot of love for Joost. (Who has been silent and only posted a story of dancing dogs) Our broadcaster AVROTROS is still backing Joost. This story is far from over.
I hope Klein and AVROTROS sue EBU for all the money they got from the Israelis.
Multiple broadcasters have filed complains about the EBU, specifically against the Israeli delegation and their media's constant harassment to other performers.
I can list them:
Netherland's AVROTROS
Switzerland's SRG SSR
Slovakia's RTVSLO
GB's BBC
Portugal's RTP
Ireland's RTE
as well as Spain's RTVE making a statement regarding harassment towards one of their journalists and Croatia's RTS criticising the DQ of Joost.
Can you share some sketches? I'm abroad for a few months and I'm in desperate need of some commiseration (looked up a dutch owned bar here just to zeik to someone about it). Only saw the lubach tribute on my socials!
Really hoping to hear more and have justice be served for him. That was soul crushing his dream...
@@CanelaAguila even tot hier has made a great parody on Europapa which is basically a big middle finger to the EBU
so sad for Estonia!
It's not terrible.. We take comfort in 1) qualifying 2) not being last in the final 3) We did pretty good in the televotes (in the semi and grand final) and 4) The boys are getting a lot of new fans all over the world now. (Like in Spotify viral top 50, we're 10th! overall and 5th Eurovision 2024 song in the list behind Switzerland, Croatia, Ireland and Netherlands) :)
@@greendude96Exactly. True win this year for me was discovering them, I’m so glad they gained so many new fans/followers.
Their song was a banger, my fav of the night
The song was a banger, but the vocals were...... special.
Estonia's song was great but the stage show should have been crazier. Maybe some weird clothes and better coreography would have worked.
People need to stop complaining that ABBA didn't perform or show up. They said in May of last year that they had no intention of being at Eurovision 2024, which is fine.
I just don't understand why? What are they holding against ESC? After all, that's what made them famous. My heart almost jumped out of my chest when it seemed they were announcing Abba and ended up talking about other band.
@@thalassophile_artist They just don't want to reunite. They've turned down massive offers for other shows, so why would Eurovision be the exception? They don't owe us or the show anything.
The AI ABBA was scary :(
I think a reason why people may complain that ABBA didn't perform at Eurovision is that during last year Eurovision the presenters made an exclamation that in 2024 it would be 50 years since ABBA won Eurovision and became famous around the world. So people would be expecting something special for such an event.
@@treverthetree They aren't AI
Sweden being in 9th place and that being their second worst result in a decade is absurd and very clear proof of how biased the jury votes are towards a few countries, including this one. Don't get me wrong, they don't send bad songs, but they are most often than not unimpressive and you can easily find songs in each year that would deserve their spot more. There's been way more egregious results than Sweden's this year because of the context, but a song as bland as "Unforgettable" being this high doesn't seem fair to me anyway.
As a swede I wholeheartedly agree with you. My vote was for Croatia to win but so many good songs, Sweden should have been maybe 20th...
I thought Unforgettable was one of the most generic songs ever with a vocal range of children ... I don't understand why did for example Serbia or Norway as well as so many others with way more interesting songs and vocally way more advanced do so badly
Even with only televote it would have still been 11th.
It was well performed and well staged. Therefore rewarded.
As a swede, I didn’t even vote for them in our national final. Trust me when I say we DO have more interesting songs but THEY NEVER WIN.
I also think M&M have a fanbase of mainly preteen girls across Europe who can and will vote on them no matter what
@@melonsodaproductions2838 this ☝️ every year we have some interesting songs but they never get sent to Eurovision
i will never forgive ebu for what they did to Joost. I respect artists for their songs and their efforts despite everything.
Justice for Joost
He is no Michael Jackson to dictate who can record him and when. He happily participated in the biggest show in the world so no there is no privacy when you go behind the stage..
And btw his bullying towards the Israeli girl was disgusting and sad..
As much as I liked Joost, I still cannot believe he let his intrusive thoughts win. You cannot command who can record u, not even Britney Spears could stop those pricks with camera. Yet one thing is left for u - and it's just go with the flow, ignore cameras, remain modest until u enter your hotel room to let your frustration out. I hope this incident will help him in the future projects
@@sindibadageall he said towards Israel’s rep was “Why not”. Don’t spin it as heinous or gross, maybe in poor taste but really not a big deal. Sensitive …
@sindibadage He didn't bully her. Pretty much everyone was just ignoring her. Israeli media on the other hand were harassing everyone who didn't want them there.
"Mon Amour" was insane... Honestly: This whole Eurovision was, for all the wrong reasons. And as a German I am proud of Isaac's performance, I was so ready to go to bed not understanding how we could have come last again, but my man delivered with the most insane vocal performance of the night. Much love Isaac!
As I also said elsewhere on RUclips: as a Dutch person, I don't remember when children were this excited about Eurovision. All of them really. And we had to tell them all he couldn't perform at the finals on Saturday. I think many kids hearts broke that day. My kids' hearts sure did. And I think most of my fellow Dutchies would agree that if he actually was in the wrong he should definitely be disqualified. But to disqualify him before all the facts were known was a bit much. Also I think the statement the Dutch broadcaster made was a bit premature as well, they also did not have all the facts and they shouldn't have immediately said it was "nothing". That being said, I think he should have performed on Saturday. If a judge later says he was in the wrong, that would be the time to disqualify and ban us from competing next year, perhaps along with a hefty fine for the broadcaster. If a judge were to rule now that Joost was not in the wrong, there's no going back to that moment and having him perform. They punished all the Dutch children, and I highly doubt they'll be Eurovision fans growing up after this. And I'll bet a lot of other people are feeling the same now, no matter the outcome of the investigation.
Even not being a Dutch, i agree. The only thing i wished when found out the news on saturday is that they would allow Joost to perform in the final and decide everything besides later according to the laws. Not to mention Europapa was my favorite this year, still cant believe it happened :c
Exactly my thoughts! They could've disqualified him AFTER the prosecution was completed. We're not Dutch and still my daughter feels so miserable about the Grand Final. It was not what she expected from this year's ESC. The real joy vanished...
@@AF-gf5hm My guess is that it would actually have been a violation of Swedish work place laws to let him compete. I am not a legal expert but I think that someone who is under investigation for threats or violence (it seems like he made some kind of punching motion towards a photographer) is usually not allowed into the workplace during the investigation. Even if ESC is an epic event for us, it is still a workplace for many people there.
I think that another big problem was the EBU's double standards here. The Israeli delegation has been accused of harrassing and intimidating several artists and journalists in Malmö, but the EBU didn't take any decision about that to make it stop. Plus, Israel participating was already very controversial in the first place.
More generally, this year's situation showed that there were many problems about the EBU, that in some cases are actually more ancient than 2024. Many artists talked about how their experience was difficult, even traumatic for some of them. And a few artists of previous years (La Zarra, S10) also said that they had a bad experience. I think that what we are currently witnessing is just the beginning, and I hope that artists talking about it will allow for change, and more consideration for their well-being.
So, has everyone here already been updated on how the suggested "violent incident involving a female staffmember" turned out to be pushing her camera down when she harassed him?
Finland is massively underrated for the performance. I don’t think people realise the insane amount of directing and production it takes to produce a performance using props on stage to cover this ‘naked’ dude, and it’s all LIVE!! I was mesmerised and laughing throughout the whole performance, and they were easily my top 3, if not the top performance.
YOURE SO TRUE ON THIS MAN
Just because it's hard to do doesn't mean it's good. It's a bit like those singers who hit high notes and hope it will save their generic song. It won't. Finland was entertaining for some and cringe for others. Staging being complicated won't solve the problem for the latter group.
@@samomuransky4455 The staging was briliant, the song less so. But you know what, if songs like Sweden's unforgettable get 9th place by good staging alone, then Finland should have gotten more points as well.
@@samomuransky4455 just because song is hard bla bla bla find happiness 🤓
@@ojigbo Fair point, but that's really a case of Sweden being overrated rather than Finland being underrated.
Fun fact: The Lada Niva car was called Lada Sport in Iceland, which was also the name for a well known band in Iceland. The commentator kept reminding us and saying that's why we should connect with them 😊
I know joost didn't get to perform in the final, but he did gain over 1 million Instagram followers since his 2nd semi final appearance.
And church towers in the Netherlands played Europapa
But, what's exactly happens with the EBU worker? They said that something was wrong, but nothing more.
@@CBOANDALUCIA Before the songfestival it was agreed that Joost would not be filmed after his performances, because he is very emotional and neurodivergent. Sadly, his wishes were not granted and a camerawoman continued to film him, dispite him asking her many times to stop it. In a moment of frustration he made "a threatning move". What that move is, nobody knows. He immediately appologized afterwards
@@ZaphiraX So, it's the ESC fault bc they should explain that to the Sweden TV workers.
Ok, Ty.
I really hope EBU think twice the situation and humble themselves, but they are too much blind for the ESC fame and success to made a public apologize.
All people deserves respect.
His tour venues have also all been upgraded too!
man, i love ladaniva so much. the charisma and musical talent is beyond comprehension
They reminded me of Zdrob si Zdub! And the singer is 🔥 so it couldn't go wrong
Her clips of singing in Greek, Romanian, Georgian and so many other languages are just spectacular!
If you want to discover similar music, you might want to give the Finnish "kebab kletzmer folk punk" band Alamaailman Vasarat a try. They don't have a singer, but capture the same high energy brassy energy than "Jako".
@@Suikanen kebab kletzmer brassy punk from Finland you say 🤔🤔
I think they took the "we love fun ethnic songs" vote 1000%. I did also vote for Estonia and Norway, but gave more points to Ladaniva.
I CAN'T BELIEVE I GET AN OVIDIU ANTON MENTION IN 2024........... i thought i was the only one who was bitter about him not making it to the contest 😭
We'll always be bitter. Here's our review from 2016: ruclips.net/video/NJG3wFeVbI0/видео.html
@@overthinkingit ooh i missed this one somehow! thanks for linking it here
@@overthinkingit I am Greek and even more than Ovidiu, I’m bitter about Mihai Trăistariu and Tornero!! It is still in my playlist 20 years later!
Is this how I'm gonna feel about Jann in a few years 🤧 I hope he doesn't get forgotten my guy was ROBBED
@@lucid_3938oh i felt like that the second i heard he didn't win the national lol. he has a fan in me though, his music is amazing 💪
I'm nominating Electric Callboy for the Joost Award 2022
I am Dutch and I agree!! When is Germany going to send them??
@@alaia-awakened Possibly never because after that debacle they lost interest. On the one hand unfortunate and let's you think that their try was really because people in the comments to Hypa Hypa told them and it wasn't really their idea but on the other idea understandable. The NDR commited their biggest f*** up in their ESC history with that.
I'm nominating Jann for 2023
dont be sad for Estonia just stream it. keep it viral. I think we have never received this much love for a 20th place. I am thinking if we got 5th or 6th a lot of people would have been mad and a lot angrier than now, our act is still being treated with fierce enthusiasm as if we got 2nd place
I have a theory on why Norway and Estonia placed so low! I think a lot of the people who would've loved these songs, were actually boycotting this year. Norway and Estonia were my and my friends' favourites this year, but we didn't really feel like giving the EBU money by voting - especially after the ridiculous Joost DQ. So that could maybe be a reason for them placing so low?
Yeah, I voted for Norway in the semi, but I didn't watch the final due to the Joost debacle. It sucked out all the fun and excitement I had for the show :(
Maybe, but me and my friends like Norway and watched. So you and I cancel each other's anecdotes and your comment is automatically deleted. Bye! 🙃
It's true I didn't vote because of this. But would it be one of these countries? Normally I vote for the "underdog" and I saw Norway as a potential winner. With a better staging Slovenia would probably have my vote.
I don't see why your argument applies to Norway or Estonia specifically.
Definitely, they would be loved by a lot of fans who aren't that invested in Eurovision and completely boycott the whole competition
The reason Gåte didn't get any votes was because Baby Lasagna had the best rock/metal song
Staging was also a bit lacklustre? I felt it made it hard to connect with the lead singer at times. I thought it worked better at MGP
the best thing from this esc was joosts ”käärijä shouldve won” sign and the roblox protest
the WHAT?!?
Excuse me, WHAT?
Wait… WHAT!?
Another thing to consider about Joost's jury scores is that the prevailing (totally untrue) rumour at the time was that he punched a female from another delegation. I waited in the queue to get into the jury final and that rumour was everywhere, which the organisers did nothing to quash. That may have impacted a jurors willingness to give points under those circumstances. Not saying he would have toppled Nemo but we may have seen more 8's and 10's.
The crowd in the arena went crazy for Joost even just on VT, which was very heart-warming.
He never touched anyone, it's horrible, all the lies spread about him. While many delegations, including the Dutch one have said that the atmosphere for the artists was not safe. But ebu did nothing with that....
Completely agree. He would have scored more jury points if he had not been slandered, and with a live performance.
Jury would absolutely not have favored Europapa. It's a people's favorite.
Totally agree, and the EBU totally knew what they were doing when the only thing they said in their communication was that he had „inappropriate behaviour against a female member of the crew“. We all know this has become a synonym for sexual harassment in the media and they clearly tried to frame him as a predator or worse.
His jury's vote video is already available on RUclips. It has a few different takes of the semifinal. the most different thing I saw is the ending. You can here Joost crying his heart out, which make all this situation of "please no cameras after semis" more sad.
My friends: Wow, how do you have such large and profound insight into Eurovision songs?
Me (Mona Lisa smile, thinking about all the Overthinking It videos I've watched in prep for Eurovision): You know, I'm something of an... overthinker myself.
I think before everyone immediately rallies behind Joost - we need to learn more details about what really happened. We only heard the side of the Dutch broadcaster. The Swedish police have come out & retorted that the Dutch broadcaster’s interpretation of events does not match what several witnesses saw and that he was very aggressive. People have been spreading a lot of unconfirmed rumors about the situation about why he was acting so aggressive. It is possible that the EBU was justified in their decision. It would make me sad bc I too really loved the song & think Joost is a really special artist. I am disappointed in the situation as well, I would have loved to see him perform in the final. However, everyone has a right to feel safe.
Yeah I tried to reserve judgement in this video. I very much did not say the EBU was wrong. I hope they were. Nothing would make me happier now than to learn Joost didn't do anything that bad and the EBU flew off the handle. But I worry that the EBU would never have done this if it wasn't very serious and well-documented.
@@overthinkingit You are not very objective when it comes to your idol Joost Klein
@@overthinkingit I think if it was very serious and well-documented, then AVROTROS wouldn't stand by Joost.
Quite likely they were around him at the time of the incident, and they know exactly how serious his action was and how it doesn't deserve this strict punishment.
@@Eva-mp7xg I don’t know that AVROTROS was actually present at the event. They’re supporting Joost, but they’re also biased.
@@eleo_b I've never seen artists walking backstage without any members of their delegation. I'm sure AVROTROS delegation knows exactly what happened. If in doubt, they would definitely choose to drop Joost and obey their superior organization (it's always easier to drop the artist as they're below them while EBU is above)
But they didn't do that, they started to negotiate with the EBU, offering different (less strict) solutions for that incident.
The way they figured out Joost's jury points (I believe) is that the juries voted when he was technically still in contention (although they had already decided to boot him). This meant that all the jury scores had the Netherlands in them, so they simply removed the rankings for him and carried on. Issue is that every jury score is now missing a number somewhere between 1-25/26, as each song is ranked in relation to every other one. For some reason they didn't fix this and still haven't, so we can still tell exactly where he was ranked. Sadly a lot of jurors didn't put him very high anyway...
Wait I cant find it. Can you tell me where he was ranked?
@@AnaisAzuli 12th place or something
@@AnaisAzuli They got from memory 58 points. If they got 0 televote points, they would've finished 17th just above Serbia.
Marina truly succeeded at what she wanted to do! She wanted to show the new Greece, promote the music of here generation without having to switch in English to be successful and guess what... "ZARI" is the first song with Greek lyrics to enter the global charts!
Good!
I was so shocked when the Cyprus jury votes came out, finally a proper deserving 12 points & they fluffed it.
(not complaining about block voting, as a Dutchy i'm way more likely to vote for Belgium than another country[if they deserve it])
When I first heard this song out of context I thought it was Spanish
I was absolutely shocked to find out that she is 37 years old.
Such a great track. I do think the staging could have been better
Trully, plus zari was powerfull through its imagery too, which was very difficult to portrey in a live show like eurovision
Sweden finished 9th and might be their worst finish in recent years, but jury bias for them is still obvious. I'd like to complain about juries here, but this year there were a lot of other issues, so jury problem remains .. how to put it.. klein?.
Honestly I agree about the bias thing. I'm swedish but I thought we'd place dead last; Marcus & Martinus were awful. I mean, the song was super forgettable (to the point i'd forgotten about it by the time it would be brought up again during voting...) but I think the other jury problems overshadow it for sure. Joost's disqualification felt like a last second decision with little to no thought put into it. An allegation shouldn't mean you get kicked out, I mean, Imagine how easy it is to weaponize that. It's silly, stupid even.
I litterly forgot about them lol
It's not just juries, it is the whole point system. It rewards countries that get good scores in at least a couple of countries over countries that get decent placements across the board. M&M was 11th among the overall televote, which is not that great. It will be interesting to see how it breaks down over countries, but it certainly means they got 0 from some televote countries, and probably rewarded highly by a few, and some low scores as well. If you take Gate as an example, they seem to have been fairly similarly placed on average, with lots of countries placing them in the 12-15 spot. This of course means 0 points, and since they had almost no countries that gave them good scores to compensate, they got a very low score. In fact, Gate could have had 11th place in all countries and gotten 0 points, while another act had 25th place in all countries except one, but got 1 point from a friendly neighbor, and beat them. It is crazy....
@@frog6183 I can't even remember anything from that song except that part "ooooh she's unforgettable", was that the whole song?
Forget Joost, we all know Nemo won because of gender bender political stuff. Come on, 30/37 juries give it 12 points, that's BS. Only Ukrainian public gave it 12 points. Not a single other country thought that's 12 points, and they're telling me that's the winner, clown world.
Klein probably* deserved disqualification! We don't know the full story.
It’s so poetic that in the messiest Eurovision ever, the neutral country won. 🇨🇭😂
Not poetic, just fixed.
@@neumy12
No, just a perfect jury song. (No, it wasn't a favorite of mine either, but neither was the second place either.)
Nah, Israel maybe wanted Switzerland because they have give tons of money there
Switzerland is not a neutral country. Never were. What they did during ww2 sill never be forgotten. And the business they carry out with russia to enable them to end Ukrainians is only a testimony of their evil nature
you mean country where HQ of EBU is placed, that organize whole contest? .. yeah, neutral 😀
I am from the US, married a Dutch lady, and have been pulling for the Netherlands since Anouk (who I knew from listening to Dutch radio) took the stage in 2013. And while I saw the video for Europapa for the first time and immediately said, "The Netherlands didn't want to win this year, anyway", the song grew on me. When I saw your "longest video" I immediately not only grew to love the song, I loved the artist. Which is why I was so gutted when the decision to DQ Joost from the contest came down. I was going to skip Eurovision this year, and made a decision last moment to watch, hoping for a s%&^ show of massive proportions. Getting to see Martin Osterdahl booed and get flustered enough to say the word result(s) three times was good enough. Nemo deserved the win, and Gate deserved a lot more than last. Where Joost would have landed is anyone's guess, but we were robbed of that. Whether you blame a photographer that didn't respect boundaries, or an artist that lost his s%^& when he shouldn't have, the EBU really overreacted. Don't even get me started on how terrible the situation behind the scenes was due to tensions related to Israel competing brought.
So I am happy, and I am sad. I just hope next year is a lot better.
Oh goodie! Blame the victim for causing “the tensions” and not the people hating on her for no reason except Jew hatred and being misinformed..
@@m.s.6586 Who did I blame?
Many people don't realize that what joost sent was representing Dutch culture in a way nobody dared to do before. It's a gabber song with hakken, a huge and specific subculture
@@m.s.6586okay schizophrenic
@@dadgbe4834 that's interesting. What are some other examples of gabber songs and hakken?
Hosts' jokes in the semi-finals landed flat, but in the final they sounded like mockery.
I liked ''Sweden loves Eurovision to much'' act in semi-final 2.
Ovidiu Anton's Joost Klein award was long ovidiu.
I cannot believe we didn't make that joke ourselves. Here's our review from 2016: ruclips.net/video/NJG3wFeVbI0/видео.html
This ‘reasons to feel better’ section is exactly what we needed at this point.. thanks! 😊
The bald guy next to Martin looked so uncomfortable. I'm amazed Martin managed to keep smiling through that.
Martin probably had anti-booing technology in his ears 💀💀😂😂
that's all they can do: smile and pretend everything is fine while everything in esc2024 was cursed and falling apart
Except that he never looks like smiling.
Smile and wave boys, smile and wave
Tbh he could keep the smile easily, when the fat stacks of money filled his pockets.
wish joost could have partecipated to the finale and sing again, no matter the results. his song literally melted our hearts, the situation got everyone mad at ebu and supporting him. many people are discovering his music and supporting him, he's earned europe's love, which what the song is "europe, come together, now or never". we literally did come together into supporting jost and asking for justice for it
Ironic considering he supported boycotting another contestant.
@@m.s.6586No, he did not
just because he doesn't support their actions and covers himself up doesnt mean he gives up on the message to come together. the israeli have fimed him before when asked to stop they continued, but did it in secret and posted it on social media that why he covered up and was salty. he also can't ignore the fact that theres a war going on but he never really statet anything to that@@m.s.6586
I think ”We just love ESC too much” would have worked better as a Grand finale interval act. But I also know, with everything that went down in-between those days, I don’t know if it would have worked in the finale.
I bet they’re gonna make a documentary about this year at some point…
That song was so arrogant and gross, and extremely insulting towards Finnish people.
@@jijitters I think you took the song a bit too seriously 😅😅 Nordic Countries make fun of each other all the time, and if Finland hosted this year and did a similar interval act, they would have probably made a joke about how it in Sweden would have been Pippi Longstocking dancing around the midsummer pole to Caramelldansen.
Imagine the camera woman harrassing Joost was filming stuff for a shitty documentary nobody outside of Sweden (and maybe Switzerland) would be interested in.
"Love Love Peace Peace" from 2016 - I'm not saying it could never be topped, but so far, it wasn't
Also that mockumentary abt the making of Abba, same year 💀
I would love the Well There's Your Problem podcast to cover this. I know they only cover engineering disasters, like the Berlin Airport, Costa Concordia and the Therac incidents, but they are the only ones that could cover it without making me cry.
I was so disengaged from eurovision this year (personal issues) so I completely missed all the drama. The only song that stuck with me is europapa (which I didn't find out was disqualified until 2 days later)
My wish for Eurovision 2025 as a german fan is that Overthinking Eurovision uses an updated map of Europe in the intro 🙊
Second that!
As a Finn, I would love it if Finland was on the map in 2025! 🤣
Okay I'll look for a good one!
We still have the same "jury problem" as the year before... The difference was simply unattainable, even Baby Lasagna was aware of it.
Booing at Martin is just like arguing with a macdonald cashier cause the food is unhealty
I know this won't be mentioned a lot but I was so devastated for Kaleen. She had that technical error FROM THE BROADCASTER where the camera to do her dance break dying and so nobody actually got to see the insanity that she has. But not only that, Austria was just sooooo good and such a bop. A shame it's so low
Austria was seriously robbed this year. She was fantastic.
The performance was essentially full playback with occasional live vocals buried under the pre-recorded track. That never does well in Eurovision. So far pretty much all entries relying on playback failed hard.
I personally did not like her song, but I agree that ESC should've permitted her to perform again.
@@samomuransky4455 This. The song is a banger and as a gen X, I love the nostalgic retro 90s vibe, but Kaleen barely sang live - I'm not denying she has a good voice, but it's true what you said, she gave us essentially a playback with occasional live vocals. She's lucky she qualified because some other good songs with good vocalists in previous years that were relying heavily on pre-recorded vocals fell through really hard, didn't qualify or didn't finish as high in the finals as everyone expected (Latvia 2021, Malta 2021).
Käärijä getting second place at the US presidential election despite winning the popular vote is something I would totally see happening 😆
When I woke up and saw that Joost was disqualified, it literally ruined my day. I had to go to work (retail, ugh) and I was in a horrible mood the whole 8 hours. Then there was text from my family asking for favors and when I got home, I ended up sitting in my car for 5 minutes crying. But finding out that Nemo won made me so happy. They really do deserve it and I'm also proud of Baby Lasagna for how far he has come. In the end, this year had so many great songs that I knew that some were not going to make it to the finals, even though they deserved to. Here's to hoping that the EBU will actually listen to the fans and improve next year!!
Same
@@SepticPegwhat should ebu improve though??????? Yes, They need a better point system and they need to fix the juries. But other than that????
I get that you are sad about joost disqualification BUT did you consider that maybe you should get angry on the "artist" ????? We don't know what happened BUT maybe he should learn to behave???? Just maybe???
Norway doesn't deserve the last place. They were supposed to be in the top 3, if not win the ESC
🤣
So… did Nemo got the ‘Gilmore Girls S3’ DVD box from Petra? Also, Petra Mede, 12 points👍
12 points though? She had a couple of flubs, and the writers definitely gave her some lazy jokes.
Estonia was so fun I am extremely sad they got no points 😢😢😢😢
10:56 Croatia basically won the Eurovision back in 1989 when it was part of Yugoslavia.
Why. Do. You. Always. Make. Me. Cry.??! And I'm just 3min in...
Joost's comment on the video about him and Olly also totally destroyed me, especially knowing it was written before "all the hell broke loose".
Let me get some handkerchief and continue... ☺️
Joost, you are bloody amazing!!! (not that he will ever see this comment, but I had to say it!)
I'm too emotional, man! And shallow, obviously. Your explanations are making me sobbing...
Love to everyone from Croatia(Zagreb) ❤
As much as this year was a shitshow, I am so happy Nemo won, they were my favourite entry and I was so happy.
I had a few favorites this year but their performance was so perfect I knew they would win. Such a demanding song yet they sounded like the studio version. Insane. They got my vote after that (together with Ukraine)
they? Its just 1 person
lets not get in to the world of John Money and Nambla making up terms for kids to pull them away from the parents
@@SebastiansSebastian-fc4pjLet people talk about music you miserable piece of work
@@SebastiansSebastian-fc4pj Imagine being so fucking pressed about pronouns. Seek help.
@@SebastiansSebastian-fc4pj Merriam-Webster “We will note that "they" has been in consistent use as a singular pronouns since
the late 1300s"
Even though he still technically competed, I think Dadi Freyr should retroactively receive the Joost Klein Award 2021
Yeah
"Make the braids thicker" IM SOBBING
Europapa and Rim Tim Tagi Dim as a theme music for UEFA Euro 2024 are the ones to listen. Forget Major Tom.
Yeah but it can't get worse right? ...
right?
Right??
Right?
Right?
Right?
I love this analysis: thank you for putting in perspective the issues of Eurovision and the strength of the music not celebrated by this festival
9:45 Dancing Lasha Tumbai wouldn't come close to winning today?! sorry but what. sure it's a novelty song but it's made appearances at three separate Eurovisions, it's no accident it got 2nd and is now well-entrenched in Eurovision history while other winning songs have been long forgotten. ps. good video
Can we retroactively award the 2023 Joost Klein award to Jann? Gladiator was so good he really deserved to perform
Second
Clearly we need to have nominations for retroactive Joost Klein Awards. A lot of people have suggestions!
@@overthinkingit How insulting for the artists who didn't get themselves disqualified. "The guy who was disqualified is better than you !" A moment of silence for the respect I had for this channel.
Greetings from Croatia. I'm watching after the video about Joost and Olly...so I had to see what's your conclusion.
Your coverage and insights are👌👌👌!!!
If you look at Jury vote the bioses are so clear .
This one was probably too overthought... Folk, rock and other genres can still be huge even if not modern, it's just that this year was above the average. People were between Armenia, Estonia and Norway, or Norway, Croatia and Ireland for the folk/rock votes, and probably Marina lost a lot of points because people who'd vote for her voted for Baby Lasagna or Nemo instead since she wasn't topping any odds.
and what makes it worse is that even if an entry gets an 11th place, they get the same 0 points as the one in 25th place, which is stupid. Gate seems to have ended up very often in the 11-15 spot among countries both for jury and televote, and got nothing for it, while a country that has a lot of 20-25 spots, but a friendly country awards them a few points and they will have a better overall score even if they were less liked across Europe
Thanks for all the fun, Matt & Matt & OTI. It's been a blast. I'll be watching out for the AI ...
Commenting for the algorithm. Thanks for the amazing videos!
Estonia was the best performance for past 10 years of eurovision, but judges have no sense.
That's were you get it wrong. It's a SONG contest - Not a Performance Contest. - The Juries are professional musicians who judge the quality of the song! - Geddit?
Out of the ~260 grand final performances of the last ten years, you think that this was the best one? I mean, you can like Estonia, that's cool. But can't you be a little more levelheaded at the same time? Does something you like have to be the best of a whole decade? And if judges disagree with you, they're dumb? You are very dismissive is what I'm saying.
@@grahamnancledra7036 It's more performance contest than song contest it's obvious...Quality of the song and eurovision are far away from each other. Every professional musician who care about his honor have to admit that.
I love the Estonian entry and would be quite happy to see it win but it had a few weaknesses like the absence of a choir that could be easily sung from people accross Europe, like Cha cha cha. It was also reasonably complex, that made it loads of fun but probably confused some people. The drug related theme could also have been an issue.
Nevermind. I love it, many non Estonians love it and Estonians love it so its still a win.
@@pajopatak9439 The point of eurovision is to "unite people through music", so it's kinda obvious it's the popular songs, not the highly technical ones that would and should win. That's also why the jury having so much power and foiling the votes hurts more.
I loved the Estonian song to bits and am sad that it ended up as low as it did, but I'm not too surprised about it. But Norway? It is honestly a crime that Norway placed last. Like, I didn't expect them to win, but I was at the very least confident that they'd end up on the left side of the scoreboard. I'm still baffled about that result
Also kinda sad about the result for the UK. I get that it was never gonna be a top contender for this year, but the 0 points felt undeserved
Given all the hesitations that some acts had in competing this year, on top of all the current political strife, I wouldn’t be surprised to see an even greater mass exodus for Eurovision in coming years. Silvester from Lithuania has stated that competing in the final might have been a mistake, and apparently withdrawing from the contest was on the table for Norway right up to the last minute, and that’s not even mentioning how outspoken the Irish team has been in the moments after the show. How long will it be before more countries follow suit? As Nemo said in their post show press conference, “maybe Eurovision needs fixing too.” This could be a major turning point for the contest. I will be interested to see how many countries will participate next year.
If you don't like the rules, Goodbye. You knew the rules when you participated. Stop destroying the competition.
great job on the whole channel and the video !
The massive discrepancy between the votes Israel received from a bunch of industry professionals that formed the juries versus the people was interesting. I'm sure both the low jury points and the high audience points were political, so I'm not sure how Eurovision should continue handing out points.
But EBU definitely messed up. Several contestants have spoken up about the behind the scene tensions. And the fact they disqualified Joost Klein after his personal boundaries were invaded by a camera woman and he reacted to that... he should have been protected. Him getting DQ'ed still pisses me off today.
It wasn't a camera woman. It was the Israeli songwriter who knew full well what she was doing when she kept crossing the boundary set in a written agreement between Klein and the Netherlands' broadcaster.
“Tensions” aka: we aren’t being allowed to bully the Jewish contestant quietly so it’s “tensions”.
I have a friend who was part of one of the delegates he said the level of harassment and bullying the Israeli singer and the entire delegation had to endure from other delegations was absolutely horrific to him. He told me there is ALOT that didn’t make it out because the Israeli delegation wanted to try and maintain everything as professional as possible so they kept it hush.
he broke Swedish law, it's that simple ... EBU should be a safe working environment
@@m.s.6586 They shouldn't have been allowed to compete. Russia wasn't allowed to. Why should they?
@@jouiboui
u r utterly insane at best.
Thank you for all these fantastic videos this season! Your channel is among the best youtube has to offer. You make my little Eurovision superfan heart beat faster with all your overthinking and deep dives.
Your channel is one of my favorites during Eurovision season! Thank you for adding to the joyful part of it. I might be wrong, but my impression is that you talked about less of the actual songs. I'd love to see more videos about the individual songs next year - they're always so funny! (This video was awesome, btw)
The Lada Niva is a legendary car. It has basically been kept unchanged since 1977, only the engines got overhauled. There is even one full of apples in the original music video.
I'm sorry to be That Guy, but Ladaniva's Lada Niva was full of pomegranates 😉 My favourite this year for sure!
@@andrewp3748 Ah, pomegrenades (how do you even spell that xD)
Thx, a great video. I was introduced to Joost through your previous video, then adored his Euro performance. I'm trying to learn his hakken style dance. .Thx for explaining Nemo's performance..what a wonderful winner..
Last year's Joost Klein award should be handed to Jann
Thank you guys for your content this year! I've really enjoyed it.
It's clear there's people who are allowed to break the rules, while others are dq'd without even breaking any
Nemo waving the non-binary flag was against EBU's own rules, yet he was allowed to sing his song and eventually win the thing. What's the point of rules if they're applied selectively.
I wouldn't say anyone were dq'd without breaking rules. I'm sure EBU has contracts outlining expectations of the artists, plus there is a police investigation, so the jury (maybe literally) is still out on whether he broke the law or not. That said, it sucks when stuff like this happens.
@@tosvus The police publicly declared there was no crime whatsoever the second ESC was over, It's quite evident that they knew al along yet weren't allowed to say it until ESC was over
@@HoofHearted88 I challenge you to tell me where in the EBu rules is it stated that the NB flag is banned. In fact, it is explicitly stated that the only flags allowed are pride flags and the flags of participating countries; the NB flag is a pride flag. As seen in Bambie's case, the trans flag was allowed too. They made a random decision there with the NB flag specifically, and it is NOT written down in the rules.
Nemo didn't display a banned flag, they didn't break any rules.
@@tadesubaru1383 Nemo said it in the press conference after the win. If you're calling Nemo a liar for it, that's on you.
This is the first one of your videos I watched this year, and I never missed them since 2017. I couldn't watch anything related to Eurovision, I didn't watch any of the semis nor the final. I have been a fan of Eurovision since the early 90s when I was a literal toddler because I couldn't believe seeing so many countries coming together to celebrate music, I always thought it was fascinating. It was created as a place to bring a broken Europe together.
For me Eurovision has always been the happy week of the year, something I looked forward and marked in the calendar since January.
The EBU has made decissions that don't correspond with the values I always admired and respected.
I seriously doubt I would ever be able to watch the contest again, it's broken
Why do your feel like this?
Was also my first year that i decided to skip the final. And i was really excited to see all the artists perform.😢
i understand that events and incidents taking place this year may have removed or broke some of your joy to watch the contest. but just because of that, you shouldnt take away your childhood and personal hobby from yourself. youre missing out not because others are seeing and talking about it, but you, cuz its the thing you like and love. its still a song contest, it still tries to unite us all, so maybe give it a shot. life happens, many things that arent in our hands happen, and we can either run away from it, avoid it, be all sad crying worms, or actually learn to live up with it, by one day doing our part to change it :)
@@solroko_ I understand your point, it's super valid, but the contest is not bringing me joy right now. it was more bringing my sadness and upset, and so I couldn't bring myself to watch any of it. It was not me trying to boycott anything while desiring to watch it, I had zero desire to watch it, esentially
@@henning1152 as I said above "The EBU has made decissions that don't correspond with the values I always admired and respected"
Saddens me that this year's competition was ruined by repeated self-inflicted damage, and I have no confidence that anything next year will be any different.
It could be better, but most of these messes were caused by the EBU's lack of transparency and double standards. They were not open about the incident and caused rumours to spread like wildfire. They should really make a few changes, the first one being firing Martin Österdahl.
Genius! I wish I had found you sooner! Thank you so much for all the thoughtful commentary! ❤
Despite everything that happened this year (10th May trauma especially), this year will always be one of my favourites. It's the first year I watched it live with my partner, and the first time I think I've ever felt myself *represented* by someone, and that someone went on to win!
This year was traumatic
Love your updates 🙂
I would really love a story about spain and the people behind the act
Thanks for all the great videos this year! I'm curious if you think Joost should bother trying again for Eurovision, I'm sure the Netherlands would be happy to have him, but would it even be worth it? Would it potentially be a runaway victory without even hearing the song if he was selected again?
Now that more information is coming out it seems that Joost and the EBU just really weren't a great match. Joost likes to do his own promo, likes to be in control of his creative process, needs his downtime and doesn't just do whatever people want from him. The EBU wants many many many things from artists, including interviews, funny short videos for multiple platforms, press conferences, etc. From the news it seemed like there were many frustrations from both sides already; Joost didn't want to participate in certain things, (probably setting healthy boundaries in his case, must be an insanely overwhelming experience), the EBU didn't want to make exceptions for him. Personally I think the EBU should really look at how they treat artists and should make sure they have their downtime, a few interviews is fine but they shouldn't force people to basically make content throughout the whole week if they aren't up for it. However you look at it, I think Joost wouldn't even want to go through this again now he knows the reality of participating. Unless there are some big changes.
Thank you so much for honouring Joost. It's super disrespectful what happened to him. Once it gets cleared up, I really do hope he will get justice. I still got to enjoy some of the finale, but after he got disqualified (I'm Dutch), I watched on and off. The EBU was simply too harsh to make a decision based on speculation without any facts to back them up, of which they refused to share.
What we should really adhere to is the sentiment: "Not guilty until proven." I doubt the Netherlands will compete again if 1. Joost does not get justice and 2. Nothing in the EBU changes.
I just discovered your channel a few weeks ago, when the Joost essay was recommended to me. I gotta say, your videos are the best Eurovision analyses I've seen on RUclips. I had such a blast watching them the week before the show and I can't wait to consume all the new content next year! Lots of love from Belgium!
Love your channel! Very good resumé of this crazy year! ❤
10000 points for Netherlands! ❤🇳🇱💙
Another retroactive Joost Klein award nominee could be Jann last year...
Love your work!
Thanx for your work - best Eurovision Channel!
First time American watcher of Eurovision, and just want to say these videos have been sending me.
No Rules didn't win because Eurovision truly has no rules!
This is the most underrated channel on youtube! You are so good!
i LOOOVE this channel. i seem to find myself in the words "overthinking it", because my teachers used to desrcibe me as 'dreamy' when i was a child and i love thinking about stuff that doesn't seem to matter all that much. it's so impressive how you find these hidden meanings and you talk about things i would have never thought about. keep up the good work! so cool.
nemo would also be a good shout for kilometers of fun as illustrated by their hitchikers guide to eurovision series
I watched that trip-footage; so much Fun!