Wonder if for running a shoe with some drop might fix pain you were having. Softer shoe with some bounce is Topo Specter. For trails the Saucony Xodus Ultra has fairly wide toe box and low drop.
Did you try the altra Superior? Or try the Lone Peak with the sock liner removed? What PT did they recommend for the issues that didn't "test out structurally"? Sounds like a strength, coordination, range of motion, or just running form issue... you should be able to be mindful of form and run the same exact way in the LP as you do in the xeros. The cushioning is there to protect your feet, not enable you to be sloppy in mechanics.
I think it sounded like his feet were not getting the right signals to move right when wearing the Lone Peak, he used tr. I think using the Minimal trail model from Altra though the models for trails even the minimal models seem to be less minimal and more substantial closer to a standard Altra trail shoe now.
I started the AT with Altras this year. I could feel every rock through the sole of my Altras. Just not a great shoe for me on the rocky AT. Switched to the thicker sole of the Hoka Speedgoats and those worked for my feet. Tried a Solomon trail runner in NY when an outfitter didn’t carry Hokas. That was a disaster, they had no grip, I was sliding on wet rocks like ice. Picked up Hokas again at the next place that carried them.
Oh boy, you would hate the Xero shoes then! Lol. You almost feel the flat trail through them. I am used to that since I like the barefoot style. I pretty much grew up barefoot so maybe that is why it doesn’t bother me. I hear good things about the speedgoats…that might be one for me to take a look at. Cheers!
"You might be asking where did all of this violence come from?" 😅 My first Ecco gore-tex Tracks lasted a decade so I got another pair when my old ones gave out. A tad pricey but very durable and comfortable.
I've been wearing Xeros at work for about 2 years and like them but I can't imagine hiking in them. I went Topo from Altra and so far so good but I want to get tested now!
I’ve been loving my Topo Cyclone 2’s and Atmos. But I also like the Altra FWD and Vanish Tempo. I’m done with their more popular models like the Torin. The upper disintegrates after 100 miles.
I own two pair of Altra Lone Peak 7’s - same size, bought at the same time, purchased from the Altra website - and after a hundred miles in each, I find that one pair is fantastic and the other is just trash and kills my feet. Poor quality control. Plain and simple. If wearing Altra’s I recommend buying a few pair, trying them, keep one that works and send the losers back. Never going back to boots. I’ve been through so many shoe brands that don’t work past five miles. Merrell’s, Columbia, Topo, Hoka and Saucony are all too narrow. Last thing: double check your shoe size. After a couple hundred miles, I found my feet widened CONSIDERABLY. I’m now almost two sizes up. I went from a 13 to almost too tight in 14 wides. Might be time to explore a 15 here. And for you, double check your size. Consider a size up, and/or a size wider.
Crazy thing is that my altras were still comfortable, even on long hikes. They were unfortunately throwing off my structure and causing other issues. But I am with you on the narrow shoe struggle bus. Cheers!
I have the Xero Z-Trek & Jessie sandals. Love them. Both are great for hiking, except when I get stuff between my sole and the sandal. I've only been wearing Xero's for the last couple of years. However, I've been wearing Vibram Five Fingers since early 2000's. Five Fingers are pretty much my daily wear - even in the winter and I've done most of my hiking in them too. (My typical days are somewhere between 3 and 10 miles) My favorite Five Finger to hike in is not one of their trail shoes. It's one of their casual shoes - the CVT Hemp. Light weight, dries quickly, and great traction on wet rocks. Unfortunately, I wore through a pair in one summer. I also tried a pair of Merrell Vapor Glove 4. Those were pretty good, although not as grippy as some of the Five Fingers.
Awesome. I've been using the cheap Amazon extra wide Whitin sneakers for daily wear. Only $40 but have been really durable. I might try some 5 Fingers eventually.
Vibram Five Fingers were not out until 2005 or 2006, mid 2000's. Vapor Glove, I know a guy who used them for running after New Balance stopped the minimus models, he was soon after getting stone bruises all the time trail running. He then switched to hardest midsole trail shoes with the SCARPA Bushido a nearly plastic midsole running shoe right before he stopped running for mountain climbing and Adventure Dropoff Race where you out to finish on map you are given, after being blindfolded and enough hearing protection you can't hear so you do not know where you are in State/Federal Park. The big Adventure Dropoff Race one being in dropped off in Denali Federal Park in summer where each person is left in one area as a group and are not allowed to work as a team with 0 clue where you are, only a finish on map each person is given along with a distress beacon. Adven where 98% of people who ever started never finish with 1% of all started have died/vanished and only 1% have finished. Now with young kid he does not do anything as he has a kid for some reason his wife threatened to sue for house and leave father with kid if he even did as simple as a 5k on roads with no training finishing under 25 minutes.
@@caseysmith544 I think my first VFF shoes were the classic in 2006. I go barefoot as much as I can and I don't run. I haven't noticed any bruising. However I do know when you walk fast or run barefoot (shoes or not) you need to change your gait to avoid injuries. Land on your forefoot and let the rest of your foot be the natural shock absorber that it was meant to be. I believe Vibram had dealt with some lawsuits because of the injuries some people were getting when they switched and ran improperly in them.
@@Doc_Watson this guy landed midfoot to forefoot getting stone bruises only when he switched from most minimal New Balance Minimus due mainly where he was running, not paying attention to sharp rocks embedded into to ground running same as before but due to how thin the rubber was on the early Vapor Glove models so he got a shoe where he got a more classic thickness midsole trail shoe but getting feedback only due to how stiff the midsole was. If he had done some research at the time in 2012-2013 he could have found other minimal brands with more protection with the rubber and a minimal midsole like UK Innov8 brand had several shoes since 2000's in USA that were more minimal shoes.
Great recap of your footwear experiences. You know I am still with the Altra Lone Peak 6’s- for me they are still working, though I saw many complaints online. I haven’t tried the Topos or Xeros yet. I will still run Merrill Moab wides in rockier terrain just for durability and stability. I also recently picked up a pair of Hoka Stinsons and those seem fine, but still getting used to the ultra thick soles. Will be super interested in how those Xeros net out for you long term. -Chris
I will def be doing a review of these Xero shoes in April/May after a few good trips. Finding the right shoe is a pain so I am hoping these are good to go!!! Cheers!
I'm with you. I have several pairs of Xero shoes for daily wear, exercise, casual. I've worn the Terra flex on long day hikes and they've been great. I'm hesitant to wear on a backpacking trip with a full pack. I'm still wearing Altras for that. I'll be curious how this shakes out for you. Keep us posted.
Haha I have those same extra wide blue Lone Peak 5s. I've been using a pair of the regular Lone Peak 5s and the extra wide for a few years. Bought both used/on sale. It was great. I'm just not a fan of the MaxTrac outsoles. They wore down pretty fast. I've been going through the barefoot shoe journey a few years and I have a pair for every situation now. Even weddings. 😆 I also figured I would be saving money in the long run because there's no EVA foam to wear down. I'll take out the Xero Mesa Trail when I pack lighter. I just picked up some Topo Athletic Runventure 4's so we'll see how they turn out. They seem like another transition shoe between the 25mm stack height Lone Peaks and the 8mm stack height Xero Mesa Trail. Maybe my feet and posterior chain will eventually be strong enough to use the Xero shoes with a full pack.
Haah, I was just thinking Darwin posted a video, today, that he's also done with Altras. I just bought my first pair of LonePeak 7's, so I have nothing to compare them to in regards to their older models. I've heard nothing but complaints about the 7's compared to the 6's, but I'm going to give them a try and see how they work out. Hopefully this sends a message to Altra that they need to reverse course with their QC before even thinking about releasing the LonePeak 8. I bought a pair of Xero Trail EV awhile back and have been pretty happy with them. My only complaint is they like to show me how dirty my floor mats are in my car. 😂
@@MrLlama999 none have a wide to box per say, i just get the wide width. Think they are the xa pro 3d, not sure of the version/generation. Toes feel good.
I love the foot box of the Altras but my heel just hates the zero drop because of a prior injury. Does anyone know of any shoes that are similar foot box wise to a Altra but not zero drop. Thanks
There are some very simple muscle response tests that should produce a certain result. When a shoe throws that off it can cause issues like my calves feeling like rocks and on fire. In a similar way when I roll my ankle it pulls on the internal structure (I am avoiding technical terms because I am just a patient and not the doc) and the body will compensate by the rest of my leg pulling down and maybe something in my back is needing to help that, etc. Sometimes when my lower back hurts it is actually caused by a weak ankle. I am sure there are a ton of gaps in this explanation, but I don’t ask too many technical questions. Cheers!
A bunch of people are stopping Altra shoes for a very dumb reason in now brand has the FDW or minimal drop shoes so people think brand has sold out and going to other minimal brands/brands with minimal models making trail shoes that are not fully barefoot, even if the shoes cause issues or are not durable. Xero is one of the few minimal brands besides Merrill's one model not making causal only true minimal that are not women repellers like Vivobarefoot and why most models are in men's and women sizing on same page and called Unisex or like Vibram Five Fingers the fit in toes is not for most guys and why Vibram Five Fingers has more models strictly for women. Xero claims some models can be worn for 2,000 miles or one trip across the USA from LA California to NYC and some really durable up to 3,500 miles or almost back to LA after hitting NYC with least durable models of super minimal sandals of just rubber lasting about 1,500 miles, so do not worry. Xero is not for super Vegans who have to use Vegan not only for food but entire life as they use leather in most of the shoe models so for them I recommend using for minimal Hobbiebear, TSLA, or Whiten, with some of these brands having crossover identical copied models being Chinese.
Wonder if for running a shoe with some drop might fix pain you were having. Softer shoe with some bounce is Topo Specter. For trails the Saucony Xodus Ultra has fairly wide toe box and low drop.
Did you try the altra Superior? Or try the Lone Peak with the sock liner removed? What PT did they recommend for the issues that didn't "test out structurally"? Sounds like a strength, coordination, range of motion, or just running form issue... you should be able to be mindful of form and run the same exact way in the LP as you do in the xeros. The cushioning is there to protect your feet, not enable you to be sloppy in mechanics.
I think it sounded like his feet were not getting the right signals to move right when wearing the Lone Peak, he used tr. I think using the Minimal trail model from Altra though the models for trails even the minimal models seem to be less minimal and more substantial closer to a standard Altra trail shoe now.
I started the AT with Altras this year. I could feel every rock through the sole of my Altras. Just not a great shoe for me on the rocky AT. Switched to the thicker sole of the Hoka Speedgoats and those worked for my feet. Tried a Solomon trail runner in NY when an outfitter didn’t carry Hokas. That was a disaster, they had no grip, I was sliding on wet rocks like ice. Picked up Hokas again at the next place that carried them.
Oh boy, you would hate the Xero shoes then! Lol. You almost feel the flat trail through them. I am used to that since I like the barefoot style. I pretty much grew up barefoot so maybe that is why it doesn’t bother me. I hear good things about the speedgoats…that might be one for me to take a look at. Cheers!
Please count me in on the Christmas train and I’m glad to do about your new channel. I’ve been watching you for a few years.
"You might be asking where did all of this violence come from?" 😅
My first Ecco gore-tex Tracks lasted a decade so I got another pair when my old ones gave out. A tad pricey but very durable and comfortable.
When it comes to outdoor gear you generally get what you pay for. Great talking with you last night, Luke!
Great talking with you as well, Mark! Looking forward to more convos down the trail!
I've been wearing Xeros at work for about 2 years and like them but I can't imagine hiking in them. I went Topo from Altra and so far so good but I want to get tested now!
I am happy those tools work for you! I think you should try a hike in the Xeros 🤙🍻
I’ve been loving my Topo Cyclone 2’s and Atmos. But I also like the Altra FWD and Vanish Tempo. I’m done with their more popular models like the Torin. The upper disintegrates after 100 miles.
I own two pair of Altra Lone Peak 7’s - same size, bought at the same time, purchased from the Altra website - and after a hundred miles in each, I find that one pair is fantastic and the other is just trash and kills my feet. Poor quality control. Plain and simple. If wearing Altra’s I recommend buying a few pair, trying them, keep one that works and send the losers back.
Never going back to boots. I’ve been through so many shoe brands that don’t work past five miles. Merrell’s, Columbia, Topo, Hoka and Saucony are all too narrow.
Last thing: double check your shoe size. After a couple hundred miles, I found my feet widened CONSIDERABLY. I’m now almost two sizes up. I went from a 13 to almost too tight in 14 wides. Might be time to explore a 15 here. And for you, double check your size. Consider a size up, and/or a size wider.
Crazy thing is that my altras were still comfortable, even on long hikes. They were unfortunately throwing off my structure and causing other issues. But I am with you on the narrow shoe struggle bus. Cheers!
I have the Xero Z-Trek & Jessie sandals. Love them. Both are great for hiking, except when I get stuff between my sole and the sandal. I've only been wearing Xero's for the last couple of years. However, I've been wearing Vibram Five Fingers since early 2000's. Five Fingers are pretty much my daily wear - even in the winter and I've done most of my hiking in them too. (My typical days are somewhere between 3 and 10 miles) My favorite Five Finger to hike in is not one of their trail shoes. It's one of their casual shoes - the CVT Hemp. Light weight, dries quickly, and great traction on wet rocks. Unfortunately, I wore through a pair in one summer. I also tried a pair of Merrell Vapor Glove 4. Those were pretty good, although not as grippy as some of the Five Fingers.
Oooo, I will check out the five fingers. Sounds intriguing! Thanks Doc!!!
Awesome. I've been using the cheap Amazon extra wide Whitin sneakers for daily wear. Only $40 but have been really durable. I might try some 5 Fingers eventually.
Vibram Five Fingers were not out until 2005 or 2006, mid 2000's. Vapor Glove, I know a guy who used them for running after New Balance stopped the minimus models, he was soon after getting stone bruises all the time trail running. He then switched to hardest midsole trail shoes with the SCARPA Bushido a nearly plastic midsole running shoe right before he stopped running for mountain climbing and Adventure Dropoff Race where you out to finish on map you are given, after being blindfolded and enough hearing protection you can't hear so you do not know where you are in State/Federal Park. The big Adventure Dropoff Race one being in dropped off in Denali Federal Park in summer where each person is left in one area as a group and are not allowed to work as a team with 0 clue where you are, only a finish on map each person is given along with a distress beacon. Adven where 98% of people who ever started never finish with 1% of all started have died/vanished and only 1% have finished. Now with young kid he does not do anything as he has a kid for some reason his wife threatened to sue for house and leave father with kid if he even did as simple as a 5k on roads with no training finishing under 25 minutes.
@@caseysmith544 I think my first VFF shoes were the classic in 2006. I go barefoot as much as I can and I don't run. I haven't noticed any bruising. However I do know when you walk fast or run barefoot (shoes or not) you need to change your gait to avoid injuries. Land on your forefoot and let the rest of your foot be the natural shock absorber that it was meant to be. I believe Vibram had dealt with some lawsuits because of the injuries some people were getting when they switched and ran improperly in them.
@@Doc_Watson this guy landed midfoot to forefoot getting stone bruises only when he switched from most minimal New Balance Minimus due mainly where he was running, not paying attention to sharp rocks embedded into to ground running same as before but due to how thin the rubber was on the early Vapor Glove models so he got a shoe where he got a more classic thickness midsole trail shoe but getting feedback only due to how stiff the midsole was. If he had done some research at the time in 2012-2013 he could have found other minimal brands with more protection with the rubber and a minimal midsole like UK Innov8 brand had several shoes since 2000's in USA that were more minimal shoes.
Great recap of your footwear experiences. You know I am still with the Altra Lone Peak 6’s- for me they are still working, though I saw many complaints online. I haven’t tried the Topos or Xeros yet. I will still run Merrill Moab wides in rockier terrain just for durability and stability. I also recently picked up a pair of Hoka Stinsons and those seem fine, but still getting used to the ultra thick soles. Will be super interested in how those Xeros net out for you long term. -Chris
I will def be doing a review of these Xero shoes in April/May after a few good trips. Finding the right shoe is a pain so I am hoping these are good to go!!! Cheers!
I'm with you. I have several pairs of Xero shoes for daily wear, exercise, casual. I've worn the Terra flex on long day hikes and they've been great. I'm hesitant to wear on a backpacking trip with a full pack. I'm still wearing Altras for that. I'll be curious how this shakes out for you. Keep us posted.
Look for a review in late April/May after I knock out a few trips. 🤙
@@MarkGoesHiking will do.
Haha I have those same extra wide blue Lone Peak 5s. I've been using a pair of the regular Lone Peak 5s and the extra wide for a few years. Bought both used/on sale. It was great. I'm just not a fan of the MaxTrac outsoles. They wore down pretty fast.
I've been going through the barefoot shoe journey a few years and I have a pair for every situation now. Even weddings. 😆 I also figured I would be saving money in the long run because there's no EVA foam to wear down. I'll take out the Xero Mesa Trail when I pack lighter.
I just picked up some Topo Athletic Runventure 4's so we'll see how they turn out. They seem like another transition shoe between the 25mm stack height Lone Peaks and the 8mm stack height Xero Mesa Trail. Maybe my feet and posterior chain will eventually be strong enough to use the Xero shoes with a full pack.
Oh the joy of getting the right shoes…and then to get some consistency. Cheers!
Haah, I was just thinking Darwin posted a video, today, that he's also done with Altras. I just bought my first pair of LonePeak 7's, so I have nothing to compare them to in regards to their older models. I've heard nothing but complaints about the 7's compared to the 6's, but I'm going to give them a try and see how they work out. Hopefully this sends a message to Altra that they need to reverse course with their QC before even thinking about releasing the LonePeak 8.
I bought a pair of Xero Trail EV awhile back and have been pretty happy with them. My only complaint is they like to show me how dirty my floor mats are in my car. 😂
I hope they work for you! Only one pair I owned didn’t hold up. Fingers crossed!
I run Altras for road running, xero for light hikes, salomon for long hikes
What Salomon’s have a wide toe box? I have wide ultra mids. They’re my choice for long hikes but definitely pinch my toes.
@@MrLlama999 none have a wide to box per say, i just get the wide width. Think they are the xa pro 3d, not sure of the version/generation. Toes feel good.
I love the foot box of the Altras but my heel just hates the zero drop because of a prior injury. Does anyone know of any shoes that are similar foot box wise to a Altra but not zero drop. Thanks
Some of the Topo models are not zero drop.
@@MarkGoesHiking Thanks I will check them out. Take care
@@mtadams2009The Altra Fwd Experience is standard width with 4 mm drop EVA midsole. Next year the Fwd Wild will be the trail version.
what exactly is test out structurally?
There are some very simple muscle response tests that should produce a certain result. When a shoe throws that off it can cause issues like my calves feeling like rocks and on fire. In a similar way when I roll my ankle it pulls on the internal structure (I am avoiding technical terms because I am just a patient and not the doc) and the body will compensate by the rest of my leg pulling down and maybe something in my back is needing to help that, etc. Sometimes when my lower back hurts it is actually caused by a weak ankle. I am sure there are a ton of gaps in this explanation, but I don’t ask too many technical questions. Cheers!
@@MarkGoesHiking uhuh, thanks for that.
A bunch of people are stopping Altra shoes for a very dumb reason in now brand has the FDW or minimal drop shoes so people think brand has sold out and going to other minimal brands/brands with minimal models making trail shoes that are not fully barefoot, even if the shoes cause issues or are not durable. Xero is one of the few minimal brands besides Merrill's one model not making causal only true minimal that are not women repellers like Vivobarefoot and why most models are in men's and women sizing on same page and called Unisex or like Vibram Five Fingers the fit in toes is not for most guys and why Vibram Five Fingers has more models strictly for women. Xero claims some models can be worn for 2,000 miles or one trip across the USA from LA California to NYC and some really durable up to 3,500 miles or almost back to LA after hitting NYC with least durable models of super minimal sandals of just rubber lasting about 1,500 miles, so do not worry. Xero is not for super Vegans who have to use Vegan not only for food but entire life as they use leather in most of the shoe models so for them I recommend using for minimal Hobbiebear, TSLA, or Whiten, with some of these brands having crossover identical copied models being Chinese.
It might be an idea to get a biomechanical assessment from a podiatrist.
Yeah great way to get prescribed useless expensive insoles that will ruin your life.
He switched to barefoot shoes. That's ALL you have to do.
Nooooooooooo
Lone Peaks for Life
I know! I wish this didn’t happen!