Ian MacKaye - 1986 - Emocore is stupid
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- Опубликовано: 16 авг 2006
- For all you "emo" kids out there, here is Ian MacKaye from 1986 saying, live with his band Embrace:
"I must say one thing. I must say emocore must be the stupidest f$%ing thing I've ever heard in my entire life. But just in case you are wondering, I read in my Thrasher the other day, that in fact, what my band (Embrace) along with other bands (Rites Of Spring, Beefeater, etc) in this city (Washington DC) are playing is emocore. I'm thinking Emo Phillips, the comedian (look it up if you don't know who he is), emocore? Emotional hardcore?? As if hardcore wasn't emotional to begin with. Anyway, it's caca. I hate to say it but you can only hold your silence for too long about this stupid sh#$t."
Just a quick history lesson in emo :) 
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"As if hardcore wasn't emotional to begin with."
Embrace and Rites of Spring still created the sounds that emo bands would later draw from (more melodic guitars, double guitar harmonies, smooth bass, more complicated drums, lyrics). The genre needed a name, maybe emo wasn't the best for it, but that's what happened.
is that what wikipedia told you ?
@@kurtgannon94 I mean it's kind of what happens when a genre like "emocore" is coined by some music journalist.
guy picciotto said it best
"I've never recognized 'emo' as a genre of music.... I know there is this generic commonplace that every band that gets labeled with that term hates it. They feel scandalized by it. But honestly, I just thought that all the bands I played in were punk rock bands. The reason I think it's so stupid is that - what, like the Bad Brains weren't emotional? What - they were robots or something? It just doesn't make any sense to me."
I’m the guy that says “oh come on man”
Why did you say that?
It's funny reading people saying that they love punk and hate emo. Emo IS punk.
Lmao no. Like grunge it's rooted in punk
It's emotional punk too
cubicle yes but no. Emo is a subgenre of punk
Kami 15 in a way yes. Emo started out as a hardcore punk genre, then it started branching out into the elements that distinguished it from other hardpunk music and started appearing in the post hardcore scene. Eventually becoming more indie sounding. There are now different variations of emo (still talking about real emo, I don’t mean the scene stuff that appropriated the name.)
So yes but actually no.
I've heard the exact opposite. "I hate punk. I like emo."
Ian was young and angry back then. Thats what gave his music an edge. He's just reacting at being put into a little box by the press, and frankly who can blame him.
You know, even though I love emotive hardcore/emocore/emo -- whatever you wanna call it -- he's kinda right. Hardcore is by definition a pretty emotional genre. Just usually angry or otherwise violent. What bands like Rites of Spring did was just give the punks a new way to express themselves, albeit in a way that wasn't post punk or new wave. In my mind, emo is just another offshoot of punk, another way for fans of the genre, and I love it all the same. Ian is fucking rad for speaking his mind so freely, though, and you have to respect him for that.
Yeah but it's kinda analogous to if he were saying soul is stupid, as if old r&b, gospel and old rock weren't soulful and full of passion.
I wish it wouldn’t mean fro sad and I don’t want suicide depressions sometimes it doesn’t need to be like that they need to be happy and cool in fact they are cool also it’s wild and awesome and it’s a awesome genre
Need to get this guy to do a documentary with Kent McClard. 80s hardcore meets 90s hardcore.
A lot of bands like to seperate themselves from labels that others coin them with. For example, My Bloody Valentine and the shoegazer wave. They tended to distance themselves from that scene as much as possible. The fact remains that Rites of Spring were extremely influential to emo (the hardcore stuff, not today's pop-rock). Whether you like the term or not, it does serve a purpose, and that's to distinguish a particular sound.
the problem with this video is that it was made in 1986...
Whether he likes it or not the genre of music known as emo has evolved to so much more than just this form of hardcore punk.
It is now a valid musical genre with characteristics that are its own.
Granted I am talking about the modern underground emo scene with bands like Circle Takes the Square and Envy.
Indian Summer is a good band, along with Cap n Jazz. More than likely taking influence from Embrace, Rites of Spring and Fugazi. Even though Ian here rejects the term "emo-core" He and Guy certainly in-consequently put a lot of influence into the genre.
beatles61 Indian Summer was influenced by Fugazi, Moss Icon, and Slint.
Of course to him it was hardcore punk.. Like black sabbath it was just hard rock for them.
Hahaha, I like the one guy going "Come on, man!"
"Hardcore" was first officially coined by DOA as the title of their album Hardcore '81
“well come on mannnn”
do you english speking ones say "it's caca" as a usual expression as it is in spanish?
That's pretty funny! Good job Jordan, way to lighten the day!
Straight edge wasn't really about staying heathly and safe, but rather it was about being in control of your own life and not having to use drugs to have fun. I don't label myself as straight edge, but I uphold a similar ideal.
this video needs to make it to the most viewed/most discussed top five. i pray for that day.
I forgot to mention it in my email to you. This was the first mention I had heard of it. I bought the issue of Thrasher he's referring to back in '86, but I don't remember much talk about 'emo' until '93 or '94, especially in DC. It was just what we listened to. DC punk.
Ian Mackaye: Emocore is the stupidest fucking thing I've heard in my life
Gerard Way : *I AM THE SHERIFF OF EMO TOWN*
This just proofs, that the term "emo" should have never been used
because the true emocore or emotive didn't like the label...emos of
today take note of that :)
"the true emocore or emotive didn't like the label." yeah, they would just call their music hardcore or punk.
Wow. I've just finished sifting through 140 odd responses for this awesome clip of music history and it's amazing how strongly people feel about a media buzzword. Everyone's entitled to their own take on this media tag & some people have raised some reasonably valid points. But opinions aside, look at the facts. Most people can agree that the origins of this
music lay in Husker Du,R.O.S.,Embrace,Dag Nasty,Moss Icon,Revolution Summer,thru to bands like Drive Like Jehu,Heroin,etc.(cont'd)
"Come on man" ..hahahahahahahahahahaha
@parman He was a fan of Rites of Spring, I don't think he ever denied that.
this is exactly what i have thought of the term emo ever since i heard it. He summed it up. He didn't say the music classified is stupidest fucking thing he's heard because the music that was classified as that then was his band embrace, and other dc bands, he was saying the term emocore was stupid because music is emotional.
@Petrrise Thank you!!! Ur one of the few who understood Ian.
You’d think with a band called Embrace that they’d embrace the term
Thanks for pointing me to Cap'n Jazz. Pretty good shit.
Not only was "emo" part of the lexicon in hardcore back in the day, but was "scream-o," was too(circa 93-96). I remember hearing that when people described xFrailx or Policy of 3 (that band featured the brother of the guy who wrote NO Loger a FANzine). Gervasi... Great band. Great mag. That family bred well.
Exhibit A:
"There's a new form of performance occurring out in Washington, D.C. It goes by the name of Emo-Core or Emotional Core. Bands like Embrace (featuring Ian McKaye), Rites of Spring, Beefeater, among others are taking the severe intensity of an emotional projection and adding it totally into their respective life sets. Crowds are said to be left in tears from the intensity. This sort of a gig is not a frequent affair, as the bands are fully drained after a performance"
@Biglotsemployee That makes so much sense.
He's absolutely right
LOL Gotta love Ian and Embrace and Rites of Spring own
The bottom line here is that rock music is a form of expression, and all expression has an emotional component to it. Trying to say a particular style of music by definition is inherently more emotional than another is ignorant and redundant. Rock music with integrity and intelligence (like embrace)will be remembered long after media buzz words, sleeve tattoos and black fringes are forgotten. Thanks for posting this awesome footage!
minor threat is one of the greatest bands ever
I've evolved past this topic of conversation, but I'd like to make an addendum. Music is emotional. It encodes emotion, and is intended to create/withdraw emotion in the audience, whether extrinsically or intrinsically. As an aesthetic, "emocore" has become a simple "hipster" culture, composed of consumers of repackaged social movements of the past. It is not alone in this. the problem with these cultures is that they occupy space benignly rather than utlize it for progression. That is all.
two things: 1. old emo is definately better than the new hot topic clone shit they're churning out now a days
2. Its pretty funny that he went on to form a band with two members of Rites Of Spring
Actually a few old I know timers recall that Brian sorta borrowed the term from my buddy Dave "I collect quack medical artifacts & obscure industrial recordings" Rickert who jokingly began referring to several bands of that era and ilk in DC as playing a new type of "emocore"...but Brian's pretty much the most well known source of that lil' phrase....
this is the beginning of emo bands denying the "emo" label because of its social connotations. MacKaye isn't saying that the idea of playing hardcore music with emotional expressivity is stupid. in fact he's saying that it's absurd to think that there's any other way. "as if hardcore wasn't emotional to begin with"... the misconception that "emo" refers most correctly to whiny bullshit isn't a new one.
I fully agree with Ian.
Finnaly this disproves that minor threat was the first emo band.
They were a straight edge Punk band not many have ever existed.
Palatka sampled this recording in one of their songs.
Emocore is just a word, but I use it
Damn right! People don't get what punk is supposed to be anymore.
just like any time in the history of rock 'n' roll when a few musicians had enough originality to spark a whole movement, people started defining it as a new genre, and labeling it
and any band with any sense of originality will always refuse to accept such labels
@SwirlyBrokenHearts You should probably do your homework, Ian MacKaye was in Minor Threat, one of the most influential punk bands of all time, then later Fugazi, the most influential post-hardcore band of all time. He took a break in 1985 to accidentally invent emo. He also couldn't give two shits about being famous. At all. The fact he IS famous is merely incidental.
Even back in '86 emo was a dirty word. I don't remember any band referring to themselves as 'emo' until around 5 years ago, when corporate rock bands found it a good marketing tool to use to attract bullied teenagers who think they're joining some 'alternative' little club by wearing eyeliner.
@SwirlyBrokenHearts I sure hope you weren't talking about Ian MacKaye...
Actually in the early 80's, we did run around calling ourselves hardcore punks.
And so did Black Flag.
I don't know why you mention Negative Approach and Negative FX as grindcore/powerviolence though.
can't believe 24 people disliked it. must be people from that trasher magazine lol
Thats a pretty big compliment
its rare to hear anyone during the 80 acknowledge emo.
Emo back then was pretty much the same thing as hardcore punk, emo from today is something entirely different, but then again so is today's punk.
I am locking down comments on my videos guys. I spend more time deleted "Great site but check this site out HOTBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH" than I do reading real comments. I hate to censor, and I won't as long as it's on topic, but these comment flooders need to be stopped.
^^
this needs more attention because it's true.
this guy knows what he's talking about
Here you have two seconds of a guy saying emocore is stupid. And because it's Ian, all you bucketheads feel it's worth discussing. You make Ian Mackaye into something he's not. Wich is a guru of some sort. The great hardcore prophet. There's only one thing that's important and that's to think for yourself. Not wether this guy and that guy are straight edge or what should be the right name for any particular "genre" of music. Hear it, and proceed to like it or not. That's all there is to it.
Modern emo comes in two forms: commercialized emo-pop (generally shit) or underground midwest revival stuff/twinklecore (generally pretty good).
Twinkly revival bro shit is garbage and about as far removed from emo as the "emo-pop" bands you're talking about
you're joking comparing emo revival bands that are actually good like Snowing to emo-pop bands like Panic! 23D1998 lmao
Emo has gone drastically downhill in recent times
I heard someone call Halsey fucking emo
@Goka Gola word up brother!
"Shut the fuck up and just play your music."
Yeah because that's the essence of hardcore and punk music in general...
if it had been called "awe", short for "awesome fucking music", i wouldn't hear anyone complaining.
can anybody remove the article at the wiki which is telling ian stared emo shit!
Totally agree with him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I totally agree emo is shit.
And not only the flashy emo hair crap scene shit.
But calling hardcore 'emotional' come on they sing their songs with passion.
If you think emo is stupid, go give an honest listen to the band Shotmaker. You can find their discography anywhere on the internet easily, and if you don't like it, delete it. Or Still Life.
rites of spring started as a hardcore band though.
Wow... so many opinions... if anybody, without any trash talk, would tell me what emo music is and list a few emo bands from the far past, i would be really thankful! And you think that emo never existed and never will you may say so as well :D
Seeing him with hair is the weirdest shit
YEAH IAN!
10000000000% right...why call one music genre emotional, regardless what decade it is..theres only good heart felt music and mainstream-crap
he is SOOOO right!
by the way, you may not know in 1986 the current label "emocore" was not the same, not even the same style of music even existed. Emocore until 1999 was a different thing.
See, the thing is here Ian is referencing Emo before it became associated with a scene ( tight pants, straightened hair, eyeliner ) and couldn't fathom why a certain kind of music would be special for being emotional: it all is. Then marketers came in, basically the same kind of marginalizing happened to the Seattle music scene with Grunge.
ian said it the best..all hardcore is emotion
i think nick needs some love.
@XDisintegrationX emo isn't anything now. it's not 1985.
It is what it is
and to vitaminb
i agree with you...
@uberscheisse It's not 1995. Sunny Day Real Estate took emo away from "Emotive Hardcore" and made it it's own thing. That stuff's the real "emo" to me if ever there was such a genre
Straight edge AND emo > all.
HAHAHAHA! Some dude was seriously pissed about that hahaha.
emo the word itself is like the word punk.
its undefinable.
technically since its described as emotional music
alot of music would be emo.
just like how some rap songs would be considered punk.
so labels should never really com into the picture, because labels are misleading, and overall confusing.
like punk, emo would be a reference to the genre's fans(if they even really are)
almost all music has emotion put into it.
people use emo now like they use to use the word "mel"
to describe melancholy
Ian MacKaye has to shut up and leave emo alone okay and that genre should not be emotion no sadness no suicide it’s always like this it could be happy sometimes and it’s wild and they should not have those stuff okay I wish it was removed okay and the fashion is cool the clothes are they don’t always have to wear jeans and they were different color of clothing and they have awesome hair it’s not always balck it could be different colors of hair okay and I want people to have them more so they could look cool even kids teens 20 year olds 30 year olds okay I am not obsessed with them I love the fashion and genre they have the best fashion and best hairstyle also the worst hairstyle is 4 or 5 beaded hair in the front and the others is buzz I heard it from good mythical morning video go watch it okay it’s good and you know what I am talking about I think that’s the real bad hairstyle and mullets aren’t bad
haha Ian is awesome
any emo kids watching this i hope you cry lmao
They were to emocore to be emocore. XD
shake dude did you know you put jimmy eat world on the wrong side of your list?
its kaka
@halifuckinfan I used to call it hardcore when I was a youngster
emo's rocken hou je mond over emocore man!!!
native nod, bev.clone, chain to thread, the hated, chino horde, plunger (to name only a few personal favorites).
listen and tell me honestly that it falls into the same category as bands labeled as only "punk".
if you think it's the same shit, you should be banned from listening to any music at all.
do not get it confused for the current usage of "emo". it shouldn't really be an issue though. it is just a word that exists to help classify that which would otherwise lack specific terminology.
He didn´ t say the music is stupid(´cause he played that music), but he thought the sorting HC to many genres(classic HC, Emocore, Grunge etc.) is stupid
inspirationxx,its not HOMO core, its quere core
@SwirlyBrokenHearts what
or just (post)hardcore... i mean ian mackeye obviously doesn't want embrace to be called "emocore"
hxc old chool like adolescent yeahhhhhhh
emo dosent exsist never has.
@SwirlyBrokenHearts who the fuck is rites of spring? LOL
Ian isn't saying the music is stupid...just that the "emocore" label is ridiculous.
@SwirlyBrokenHearts Yeah....Minor Threat is way the fuck more popular and better than any emo band.
EMOTIVE - Characterized by, expressing, or exciting emotion: an emotive trial lawyer.
hmmm emotive means expressing emotion? how is that any different?
labels