Should be pretty simple to know which is better. They have the same gearing, same software for offroading(Crosstrek Wilderness won't) the Forester is a bit lighter and has far better approach and departure angle which more than makes up for that 0.3" ground clearance loss in most scenarios.
@@wildernessinwilderness8032 My 2006 Forester with even worse gearing and crap power has enough power. It's never the limiting factor and I'm regularly over 8000' and haven't had issues at 11000 either'. I live at 4500' in Salt Lake and my Forester is a permanent minipcamper. The gearing(the new ones are better) and open diff is the problem for me. *I also have an oversized transmission cooler. But the power is fine
Researched this car segment for the last 2 months, my findings, - 5th gen forester rated #1 in safety and readability over all others including RAV, trial hawk, honda and bronco. That said, it has been a long road for Subaru from the CVT tranny , oil consumption, head gasket issues of past generation vehicles. At 6'3, CR just announced the Forester is #1 with tall drivers as well, no surprise as the "green house" visibility is very attractive. All the safety dings can be disabled permanently, with the exception of engine on/off at stop. After market solution will solve that as well. So, I will be picking up my Subaru Forester Wilderness / pearl white next week. Comfortable driving on and off road, safety and readability, looks, honest service advisors that I have visited with during this time, all have pushed me this direction. And finally driving my daughters 2017 Forester premium, sold me on being a Subie owner. Suggested maintenance to ensure long life; 30k diff (F/R) service, 40k CVT Transmission service, and oil changes every 4k. HAPPY TRAILS
I wouldn't say that, the guy went on some light logging/forest access roads and severely damaged a skid plate which could be a repair bill of a few hundred dollars. That's exactly what you get when you lightly offroad these crossover vehicles compared to a SUV.
@@pizzasaurolophus This, plus there is a difference from going down a private dirt road and going through actual trails. Even then there is the question of "how often". If you even weekly what they test drove this vehicle on. Don't expect that suspension and drivetrain to last 100k without some much needed repairs. I know this from experience, I've been able to handle an Ur-allroad through stuff my jeep buds had issues with. That being said, my Allroad even for a low mileage example got beat up drivetrain wise very fast.
@@asymsolutions for sure. I have an R51 pathfinder with 2 inch lift and 32s my ground clearance is like 11 inches and its still not enough, i am always nervous on real offroad trails, it has no articulation compared to a wrangler, but like 3 times as much as a cross trek and often i get that nervous feeling when you go on 3 wheels, that's when you feel like you're going to break something. I imagine taking one of these Subaru CUVs off road would just constantly be that worrisome feeling in your gut which would be terrible. You feel GOOD when your vehicle just crawls over some obstacle like it's nothing. When you have to go on 3 wheels slipping,sliding and tetering back and forth it's no fun at all.
@@pizzasaurolophus My Jeep YJ suspension busted several times within 100K miles. You could also disconnect both anti-swaybars on a Subie, if you want more articulation. High-clearance steel bumpers, rockers, a rear locker/LSD, and some aggressive tires, could make this Forester even better offroad.
@SnowBoarder&Skier those tesla drivers are actually boring because they don't do activities that subaru drivers can do, imagine braking your screen in the middle of nowhere you can't control the simples things without the tesla screen.
As an Outback Wilderness Owner, I will say I'm jealous of the 2 cameras at once, and physical AC/X mode buttons... having everything controlled by a touch screen becomes annoying AF
I find it hilarious that companies are selling different traction control profiles and making them only available on certain models. . At least with a locker or lsd it costs more to make the vehicle.
@@KTMcaptain It makes sense in that they're limiting the vehicles they warranty for pushing it's limits. It's weird but buying these packages is almost like buying more warranty coverage.
@@tball84 the problem is that subaru still uses very old techs like who still uses a cd in 2021?! By adding a reworked Samsung tablet as infotainment it should have made the experience way better tbh.
I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t tempted to trade in the 4runner ORP I just got for 43k. This is about the best vehicle you can get in this segment at this price. But I have smol pp and need the bigger vehicle to help compensate that.
I want to sell my 06 LC100 to buy a Subaru, because here in Denmark, the LC costs around 3000 dollars yearly in tax, that’s not including fuel, insurance or anything else…
These Wilderness versions are definitely a trend in the right direction for more off-road capability. I still think there needs to be a true off-road version, so it will be interesting to see how they evolve over the next few years. For now, it looks like a nice marriage between practicality and mild adventure
Would be cool if they'd do the Ascent Wilderness with a low range 4WD, true low range, not just locking the transmission in 1st gear like many are doing. Maybe a limited slip differential, or the option of limited slip front and rear in the Ascent Wilderness combined with low range and the Xmode I bet Subaru would sell a lot of them, and if they'd get the ground clearance up a bit more they'd sell quite well to those who love Subaru, but have migrated to the 4Runner, Jeep, etc. Subaru has the capability to build a cool offroader, but they don't. Maybe go back to a 6 or 8 speed automatic for the Ascent Wilderness and do all the above mentioned...I'd certainly look into one. I don't do any major offroading, but having something I can just jump in and go up to the mountains in the snow if I want, go camping, etc. would be nice.
@@wildbill23c but then it qould not be a conpetitor to the 4runner but more to the landcruiser if you consider the size! And they allready compared the outback wilderness to the 4runner themself
@@me_ca136 The 4Runner isn't even the same class of vehicle as any Subaru, so whoever is trying to compare them to a 4Runner shouldn't be doing vehicle reviews or comparisons.
@David Muela what are you on about? Subaru didn’t use the 4Runner as a mark reviewers are. That being said the wilderness does quite well on and off road. Not as good off-road as the 4 runner but it makes up for that in its on road manners.
I have always seen the Subaru as a great all weather vehicle (snow/slush/ice/wet/dry). I believe that is where they excel, but it is great that you can show what they can really do off the beaten path.
Ryan, omg. I really love and appreciate all of your content. Very professional, but still feels one on one. Also, you are so thorough, and don't just do information from a screen or website. Actual footage, out in the field, testing things.
I wasn’t sold on this initially but it’s grown on me. Really looks like a solid daily driver. I could probably do the same with an inch lift and tires on the Sport I have, but for a drive off the lot adventure machine, this is perfect for the target audience.
I've been comparing a few models, my mind says Rav 4 hybrid because that's the practical route. But even if I wanted it, I can't find any. Not even gas ones. I was looking at Foresters, and I like the Wilderness, though the Sport would probably do everything I need. Though I tow a trailer and bike it would encroach near the limit of the 1500lbs the Sport is rated at. I may get another bike one day and it would exceed the limit. The Wildereness 3000lbs towing would be enough, but 5mpg hit in the long term seems high.
Great review, I would've sold my wife's 2016 Forrester Touring and bought a new Wilderness Forrester...but I just cannot do it when it doesn't come with the new 260 hp Turbo engine...literally a huge selling point for me. Keep up the great content!
The turbo yes is faster but overall the driveablitiy in the 2019 and is improve and much better epa the newer model smoother and handles better and just the improvements made to wilderness it even better for 22 and something you need to understand it not a race car
@@jeremyanddanaeferguson6020 There's no way the Forester wilderness does 7.9 in most situations with this powertrain. Maybe at sea level with a 90 pound driver.
As a life long Oregonian and often Subaru owner, I just want to say: Thank you for pronouncing the states name right. Oh, also, yeah, looks like I found my new car.
Somebody at work had purchased an outback wilderness. It was nice to be able to take a closer look at it. It’s actually a really nice looking rugged vehicle.
Just realized how great it would be to have a hybrid version of this due to the electric motor not being negatively effected by high altitude and could compensate for the gas engine's drop in performance at high altitude.
I'd like to see how it tackles these obstacles at elevation with 4 people in it and a days worth of food and drinks in the back to simulate a common day out excursion. Granted people can get out and walk a hard obstacle but if its raining out then some people would have to be dragged out of the car before that happens. More people need to test these kinds of vehicles this way.
Looking at the obstacles, probably it would do okay, maybe a lil more rough for wear. The question is how often can you do this. If you look at any offroad centric vehicle as a tool, and look at your needs, then you should understand your needs are probably at 70-80% of what they can turn into (at best). Such a vehicle will not surely last 5-10K of this test constantly done over 6 years without some heavy maintenance, if not breaking down. So if you are some suburbanite who drives to the local ski-lodge and might get caught in a snowstorm on a washed out paved road every year at absolute worse? Sure this sounds like a great idea (until the reality of knocked down trees and branches come into play...looking at you VT/NH/ME bros). Always have your tools more capable than what you think you need. Because you never know what you need till you need it.
@@asymsolutions And that's why I want to see this Subaru tested as I described because the whole point of a test is to push the vehicle but what I described isn't an unreal situation. I'm curious to see if the extra weight will cause the car to shut down in certain situations to protect the CVT from overheating where as the car might have been fine with just the driver inside. When people do reviews for vehicles like this, they are always empty. But the trend lately is taking these softroaders, loading them up full of gear and people and trying to compete with more purpose built machines. I'm of the over prepare and overbuild mindset for the job needed, but a lot of people are trying to take these things beyond what they are realistically for whether out of ignorance or seeking a challenge.
@@schmojo33 I get you, my point which I failed to relay (sorry) was that they'd probably try to sell it as a success still so the end judgement by these "automotive journalists" would still be the same. Either way I say we are on the same page. These are not true softroaders. I would consider a 4x4 pickup with rear locker, factory skids and offroad tuned shocks to be the adequate vehicle for this test on the norm.
@@asymsolutions My Forester can run rings around my 2500 HD Silverado. Even with big aggressive tires, without a bunch of weight in the back it can't even get out of my icy driveway . Subaru walks right out in ice and a foot of snow
It feels like Subaru should be the next manufacturer to put an actual geared low range in a crossover-type vehicle like this. It's been 8 years since Jeep did it. Granted for Subaru it would be some engineering $$ as it would almost certainly have to be built into the transmission case as the AWD bits are in there already. There would be benefits like less strain on the CVT parts and the possibility of a more MPG-friendly final drive without killing the ability to climb steep stuff. What they have now though seems plenty good enough for "need to get through this tricky section". Low range would be nice for (the tiny minority of) folks who are into "off-road for hours".
The Grand Cherokee still has a true low range, but I think the current Cherokees just lock the transmission in 1st gear if I recall. I agree, if Subaru would do a true low range 4WD system, X-Mode, and maybe limited slip differentials they'd have a winner for sure...I'd love something like that, the Ascent or the Forester with those features would definitely get me into a Subaru. I loved the old 80's Subaru wagons with the manual 4WD with high and low range...the dang things would go anywhere. Low Range is nice to just keep you from being on the brakes all the time trying to keep lower speeds...but certainly a help in hill climbing too. It would help take some of the CVT related issues out of the equation in hill climbing scenarios where you run out of momentum and power before getting up the hill.
@@wildbill23c Renegade/Compass do the "lock in 1st" for low range. Cherokee with the right options has true low range, 2.76:1 or something close to that. It's complicated, with a reduction gear set for each axle but it works. :)
I very much doubt there is space to fit it. A good part of the reason they use a CVT rather than an 8-10 speed is because symmetrical AWD leaves limited space for the transmission. There is little reason to invest in the R&D to try get it to work when electric drivetrains without any need for gearing are on horizon anyway.
Thank you for the video! This is exactly what I was looking for (and expected). I use my slightly modified crosstrek with that garbage engine (147 hp) to attempt to get to trailheads deep in the wilderness in Colorado. It is frequently defeated before other cars, even such as the CRV. Subarus seem great and *some* off-roading work, but really struggle when put to the test of big dips off-road. The skid plates are a must.
I got my Ascent with Falken Wildpeak ATs up and back down that road you were on. Was a real pucker factor going through that deep rut segment but it handled it no issues.
@Ray this is a pretty well travelled route and the only way in or out. If you got stuck in the part I mentioned I expect there’d be plenty of folks to help you if only to get you out of the way. It also helps that it’s much easier coming back down than up so if you don’t make it on the way up you can usually just back out. In other situations I have no idea… bring some rescue gear or call for help. I try to always have some way to make emergency calls if only a satellite beacon.
had a 2015 forester and was blown away how comfy and capable it was living in and exploring the rocky mountains. huuuge amount of storage, very comfortable, great handling, almost impossible to get it stuck, fantastic in snow and mud, rocks, etc. Looks like a '22 wildnerness upgrade would be 100% capable of being a perfect all around adventure rig. My only issue was the CVT in the 2015 and lack of ability to select a low gear for descending super snowy slick steep downhill mountain highways without tapping the breaks (dangerous!). The CVT even in 'low gear' didn't allow for enough engine braking, but we managed. we didn't have x mode or the paddle shifters tho... Too bad they don't offer an actual stick shift manual clutch for the last several years...
@@doctordryan had the base model 2.5 gas engine with CVT. Only bell or whistle were the roof racks which were useful. had stopped making the manual by 2015, which was a huge bummer but it was still unstoppable off road. I had driven my friends '12 or '13 iirc, stick shift non-turbo, and it was a dream for offroading. CVT just doesn't have a low enough 'gear' but meh it works. I think with any motor or tranny, Forester is just too damn good in slick or rough terrain.
Even on the current gen i can tell you that engine braking going downhill is not great, even in the lowest "gear" you can set on the paddle shifters. Just going down the ramp into the parking garage at work it picks up a lot of speed, i don't see this negotiating a serious downhill without a lot of braking
@salsamancer it's a shame! The rest of the world still sees plenty of love and use of manual cars, yet allegedly there is no market anymore in the USA. The brake tapping on steep downhill passes in winter mountains in a CVT is much more dangerous than a true 1st or 2nd gear manual selection. I have only a vague understanding of how CVT works, but I guess it's a pretty limited system if even by now they can't get a low enough "gear" to safely go down steep grades in winter conditions, where subies are supposed to shine for safety and capability. In my experience it was either tap the brakes and occasionally lose traction and start sliding or spinning, or gain speed and risk getting way too close to the traffic ahead, which likely had an actual low gear to maintain low speed. CVT ughhh.. bring back manuals to the USA pleease, like the rest of the world still uses.
I’d love to get this or the up and coming crosstrek wilderness. Looks and functions amazingly. Viva Subaru Wilderness. Just looks like it’s in its element, no issues.
CVT. I have a 21 Outback Limited with the 2.5. I recently took it on a drive up I-77 in the West Virginia mountains. I loved that the CVT was smooth and changed effortlessly. It was much better than my Chevy Equinox that kept searching up and down through the gears as topography changed.
@@crabjay7086 It really depends on what kind of driving you do. If you drive aggressively and like to "wind it out" that is get every rev out of each gear before changing, then the CVT is not for you. If you are looking for a daily driver that will give you good service and great gas mileage then you will enjoy the CVT. The power will depend on whether you get a turbo or not. I understand there might be a little turbo lag, but the turbo boost will make up for it. From my research, Subaru has the best CVT on the market.
I love my SK Forester (2020), no complaints as a family car. I’ll be installing Flatout Suspension next week. Installing larger diameter tires and going down to 17” from those ridiculous 18” made a huge improvement. I’m only jealous of the all black ceiling interior on that wilderness.
I was hoping that the Wilderness Forester was going to get the Full Wilderness package, especially the turbo engine. Just wanted a stronger, quicker engine in any Forester and was really hoping this would be the one; but the no-option, 1 engine only, cost saving mentality is still in place. The transmission tweak helps for the purpose of this vehicle.
@@wind7sailor I have a 2014 XT Forester and it is so much fun. I really want a new version but unless they bring the 2.0L turbo back I simply will not be buying a normally asperated version.
The Wilderness CVT gearing: 1st gear is 4.07:1, compared to 3.60 on the standard Forester. Reverse is 4.38 compared to 3.69. Combined with the 4.11 final drive, you can feel the difference. I can plow through deep sand no problem! Of course this is not a true off-road vehicle, but for mild stuff, it's pretty decent. Nice review BTW. One thing you touch on (pun intended) is the plethora of buttons. Plus it can be a bit confusing, as some settings can be configured from the Info panel on the center console, and the exact same setting is available in the dash menu. Wish they would clean that up so each setting is available in one location only.
Really good review, I feel like this video demonstrated capabilities as well as ones on the new private track do and definitely makes this a very appealing Forester. As a 2020 Outback owner, I’m very happy w/my it & would go Outback Wilderness over a Forester if opp presents. And, let me thank you for taking a moment to chat & selfie w/me at Subie Fest 2021 last weekend. Definitely was best part of the event to meet a YT channeler I follow. Hope to see the work you were producing there…if any????
Not gonna lie, the large screen in the Outback vs the Smaller screens in the Ascent (plus the 3rd row, obviously) were big pluses and why we ultimately bought the Ascent. I would love if Subaru put the Turbo in here and bring back the Forester XT.
@@ZachMauch I’ve heard that rumor too. Using the RAV4 Prime drivetrain, I think. I just hope they’re able to make it work with the mechanical vs through the road AWD
@@ZachMauch If Subaru's weak, underpowered 2020 E-boxer hybrid, sold overseas is their response to the more powerful Hybrids already being sold here by their competitors; there is little hope to see a more powerful Forester and this is the best they can do. Maybe Subaru has something better coming and I hope they do
@@wind7sailor ...because it won't be the same tech. Subaru's current hybrids are mostly for compliance. Most reports and rumors are suggesting they will be leveraging Toyota tech for future hybrids and EVs. It is possible they could even stray away from boxer engines for some vehicles. Rumors are suggesting the forester would use the same engine from the RAV4 prime. That make over 300 combined horsepower and does 0-60 in under 6 seconds.
@@ZachMauch I'd take just the regular Rav-4 hybrid engine with about 220hp and a reasonably quick 7.5 seconds 0-60 instead of 9.2 to 9.9 seconds. I'd just like the option. Being taller, the Forester is a nice small SUV that gives me the legroom I need, but with no option for stronger performing engine and the rattling auto stop/start system, we choose another vehicle in 2020. We'd love a Subaru RAV-FOR-ester Hybrid. My wife liked the Forester interior size and more compact exterior, so we've kept an eye it just in case they developed a Hybrid(sadly the overseas E-boxer was a disappointment) or if they offered the full Wilderness package including a turbo on this model. It should work well for driving slowly over beautiful, rocky, country roads, it should fill the need for a lot of people that love to do this kind of thing.
Gorgeous scenery in the backdrop. $36,000 is not bad. A 10 second 0-60 in a brand new car - that's bad. I hold on to my vehicles for more than 10 years and I can only imagine how slow it'll be once it has a 100,000 miles on it.
Early 2022. To get one of these, at least in my area, you need to purchase before it ever arrives at the dealership. Waiting for mine to arrive now. It's "in transit." Can't wait to pick it up!
For less than 20k I’ve seen my Caravan GT drive through the same terrains. Still gets me how going down a dirt road and up a hill is what sets the bar for “off road” vehicles.
I have always liked both the Outback and Forester models. I think the Forester Wilderness looks better than the Outback Wilderness. Although, a simple wheel change would help the Outback Wilderness immensely. The same wheels on the Forester look a bit better for the proportions. The only issue is the lack of turbo, I think they should have included, maybe with a different tune and a little less horsepower. I suppose I would buy the Outback.
I have a 2019 forester sport. I put the yoko get on in and 28 inch wheels with a 2 inch lift. I love it. The forester has more head room for me to sit up with the rear seat down. I travelband overland with it. I do wish the turbo was available in this model. It it was I would switch and modify it again
I Love my Forester Touring. I don’t take it serious off roading but our private road and driveway is considered light off roading in the winter months. I considered a Wilderness, but for serious off road, we take our 4X4 pickup. Great review Ryan
I only have one Subaru remaining in what was a fleet of Subies over the years. After my 3rd blown head gasket, I am trying out Toyotas now. But this Wilderness model is very attractive. I loved the way my 2019 Forester Sport handled on the road. Great reviews as always. Best on RUclips.
While the Forester Wilderness does have slightly less ground clearance than the Outback Wilderness, it's shorter wheelbase architecture does give it better approach, departure, and brakeover angles.
Ryan, It looks like this is the best trip you have been on since the Death Valley voyage in your 22:25 4Runner ;-) Speaking of Toyota, I hope TMC takes notes on the generous rear head and leg room provide dby the Forester.
I'd think, as much as (or more than) the nominal extra 1/2" of ground clearance, the improved front approach angle would help counteract that long front overhang (of all Subarus). I'd prefer the extra 2" of interior ceiling height of the Forester to the extra couple inches of length of the Outback.
Okay, so I own a 19 Crosstrek Premium 6spd manual I live in upstate New York - southern tier, south of Rochester…. That being said, my Crosstrek is kinda decked out for over landing and old logging road driving…. That being said here - it’s likely better than the OB Wilderness and the Foz Wilderness - the Wilderness package is cool looking and yes they have a bit more ability but you’re still getting a factory built car that’s better for getting groceries than it is for off-roading…. And that’s not me talking smack or being negative…. What I’m simply saying here is you can buy a mid level trim Foz or OB or Trek and instead of getting the craziest bestest most “off-roady” model they sell from the factory, you’re better off buying a mid level trim or better get a base model and instead of financing $40k, you finance $30k and then put a few thousand into the lower trim level - and for less cost than the loaded wilderness package, you have a more off-road worthy Subie I understand these will sell like crazy and they really are great vehicles and look awesome and really make a statement as far as being a lifestyle vehicle…. But good lord - the amount of money you’d not spend on a payment will really make a lesser trim model WAY better and a lot more fun - and not to mention, you also have the ability to brag a bit as you made your vehicle your own, versus a factory looking wilderness model…..
As a previous owner of several Forester XT vehicles(SG/SH), The only thing I have to say is, "CVT and No Turbo." Okay maybe a few things lol Subaru stop playin' WE KNOW you're going to be bringing the 1.8L Turbo Forester to the US.. Give it to us NOW!!! Please??? Ryan.. Thank you.. for consistency... You are among the Elite whom is committed to your work.. Very Honored to say I've been following you since the turn of the century.
@@0HOON0 You know, I've been buying Subarus since the mid 80s(Still own one, which we purchased new in '17 actually. And yes, Turbo as well) and they have been reliable for the most part. Past 200k miles? Sure.. Have I also owned a lot more brands? I definitely have. Both Japanese and German(Still own German as well). Therefore, for the most part, We have been lucky and fortunate.
I own a 2008 FXT. I just can't imagine getting a new Forester that has a 0-60 time over 10 seconds. I guess I'll just have to accept that there will never be another sport enthusiast minded Forester again.
Great video. But please don't complain about too many buttons on the steering wheel. Otherwise they'll replace the steering wheel with a touchpad too...
I like how Subaru give you both the static & dynamic weights for the roofrack. Most manufactures (that I know of), don't give either one, or even roof capacity if no factory rack.
I have a built 2018 and have drown easily up jeep trails, but the only thing that has held me back is the transmission. Really wish they could do away with the cvt as it is an absolute weak point in an offroad setting.
Have you actually driven one with a CVT? I have a crosstrek with a CVT and it got me everywhere I needed to go with standard tires. People like to hate on the CVT but they've never driven it. It works just fine for most scenarios.
The CVT is very good transmission for regular use (town traffic + some good to average roads in the wild). It's also the best one for heavy traffic by far, especially compared to the robotic (god forgive me DSG) ones. So maybe it lacks some capability compared to manual one in offroad (which i didn't ever feel, because in my offroad i never had any problems with it), but almost everyone who buys it, never tries something remotely capable to bring the CVT to it's limit.
The washboard on the forest roads in the Deschutes NF is super gnarly. Any non-subaru crossover will blow out its shocks in one summer of forest road driving in Oregon
I just bought a '21 sport. I wish I had known the Wilderness series was coming out because I would have waited. There's not much else that's changed except the trim color, the front camera, and the things they incorporated specifically for the Wilderness for a better off-road experience. With what I need my Forester for, I don't need an upgrade. But this sure is a beaut.... I do wish they'd allow someone like me, with '21 model, to upgrade to the software that's in this '22 Forester.... I feel like maybe my car could do the exact same.... But alas... They probably won't offer that... And if there's any good reason why that would be a bad idea, someone let me know.
Love the new Wilderness series. I don't want a wagon so it'd be really nice if they offered the same 260hp motor in the Forester as well as the Outback - at least make it an option.
I doubt Subaru will, since the Ascent and Outback that use or offer options for the 2.4 turbo are build at their factory in the US, that might explain all the problems and recalls on the Ascent, and the Forester, Crosstrek and smaller models are built in Japan. The Forester is a nice Suv, could just use an extra 20 to 40 hp; the sacrifice conceded for decent non-hybrid mpg.
I hope hey make a wilderness for the Ascent. Since they are really trying to get more into the "wilderness" with upgraded roof racks allowing more weight, I would love to see an 110V outlet somewhere on the vehicle. Subaru has a major chance to break more into the Overland Community with the Wilderness. Give us a locking rear diff and even a really mild low gear.
Mine is best vehicle I ever purchased. It will never see any off road use but I like the increased ground clearance and rugged features. Mine has never got more than 22mpg in town but I don’t really care. The high ground clearance and semi off road tires are worth the decreased mileage. I don’t have to worry about pulling into driveway and having front drag on ground like the Hondas I had. Hopefully it will snow one day and I can try out the features
Would be a great comparison. I'm thinking Forester: more offroad capable, better roomier interior, but slow. Rav4: nearly as offroad capable, more powerful.
"Now, it is unfortunate that it doesn't have a turbo engine up front, but, if you want a turbo, you could always get the Outback XT." And tack on another 260 lbs and $2,300. Subaru packaged the 2.4T for the global platform on the WRX. At this point, their refusal to offer it in the Forester, Crosstrek, or Impreza hatchback is just annoying ... or a desperate need to make CAFE numbers.
Meeting CAFE standards is extremely important. More important than us getting horsepower. The real ball they've dropped is staying with CVTs while others have good to 8-11spd autos without losing efficiency.
Can you do a new test drive and mud test on the 2024 Forester Wilderness!? I just bought one and am stoked but would love to see a video on the newest model! 😃
Interior cubic ft of the Outback vs. Forester is actually identical! Great video I can't wait to get our Forester Wilderness in that beautiful Geyser Blue
Subaru's got nice looking Levorg station wagon which is basically Impreza/Crosstrek. It has 1.8 turbo and sold in Japan and Europe and some other countries. The U.S. Subie fans would be certainly excited about Weird... sorry Wilderness version of Levorg.
Hopefully,the seats are better on this version. The Forester of 2021 lacked thigh support for my wife and I coming out of a Honda Pilot. I'm 6'4" and getting and out is pretty easy. The rest of the vehicle is a winner. My buddy was 1/2 owner of a Subaru dealer but he retired and sold his half prior to the release of the 2022. bummer. good job Subaru!!
Awesome review. Can't wait to see that added info about the difference in the transmission between Outback & Forester. Keep up with the great videos. Saw a few other channels posting stuff but I've gotta check out your review first. Great seeing you at SubieFest a couple of weeks ago. That's was an awesome turn out and it was cool to see a Forester Wilderness in person. Still thinking about possibly trading in my '19 Sport for the Wilderness or if I should just spend some extra money to upgrade it a bit. That Transmission video will give me the data points I feel that are the biggest improvements/changes. Take care.
I understand not doing the 2.4 liter turbo, but I do wish they had done the 1.8 liter turbo that was roughly the same power as this engine. That would have really helped at elevation and with low end torque.
I am not loyal to any manufacturer. The Subaru's are great but I can't accept a CVT for an AWD vehicle. For those who accept the AWD-CVT, enjoy and best wishes.
I own one of these vehicles and your tire discussions were generally positive and I mostly agree but I unfortunately have experience that they are not up to a trail with lots of rocks. This past summer I experienced a side wall cut that was not repairable and with only one spare (thank goodness it was a full size spare, thank you Subaru) I had to shorten my long awaited trip. I am now looking at Falken Wildpeak AT3Ws as they should fit on the factory rims. BF Goodrich K02s would require new rims as I would need to go a 16 inch size to keep circumference close to factory OEM tires but either way a sturdier sidewall is my goal. I understand why Subaru uses the Yokohama tires, they are quiet on pavement and certainly suitable for forest service gravel roads but the sidewall let me down. Rather than carry 2 spares I would rather upgrade the tires as soon as the geolanders wear out which in my case is coming up pretty soon. My comments to Subaru would be to offer as an option more agressive off-road tires, add a turbo, and my personal pet peeve, make the space under the info center wider so a iPhone 14Pro size phone in a case will flat lay across it, as there is no good place to lay the phone.
I have to ask: Why people push and HOLD the start button like we did with key? A simple and quick push do the exact same thing as you don't need to hold to keep the starter to rev the engine : it is all done automatically for as long as it is required.
I think the biggest reason why i went forester over outback for wilderness is harmon kardon sound system, why that is not on the outback wilderness is beyond me
what I am missing, is adding low range, and probably Subaru could introduce edition Wilderness X with low range and diff locks, and they will cover 99% of usages.
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Outback Wilderness Vs Forester Wilderness on your test mountain would be a huge video
This right here!!! Please do this!
Should be pretty simple to know which is better. They have the same gearing, same software for offroading(Crosstrek Wilderness won't) the Forester is a bit lighter and has far better approach and departure angle which more than makes up for that 0.3" ground clearance loss in most scenarios.
@@veganpotterthevegan But would be interesting to see if the lack of horsepower effects the forester on steep climbs
@@wildernessinwilderness8032 My 2006 Forester with even worse gearing and crap power has enough power. It's never the limiting factor and I'm regularly over 8000' and haven't had issues at 11000 either'. I live at 4500' in Salt Lake and my Forester is a permanent minipcamper. The gearing(the new ones are better) and open diff is the problem for me.
*I also have an oversized transmission cooler. But the power is fine
Looking forward to it
Researched this car segment for the last 2 months, my findings, - 5th gen forester rated #1 in safety and readability over all others including RAV, trial hawk, honda and bronco. That said, it has been a long road for Subaru from the CVT tranny , oil consumption, head gasket issues of past generation vehicles. At 6'3, CR just announced the Forester is #1 with tall drivers as well, no surprise as the "green house" visibility is very attractive. All the safety dings can be disabled permanently, with the exception of engine on/off at stop. After market solution will solve that as well. So, I will be picking up my Subaru Forester Wilderness / pearl white next week. Comfortable driving on and off road, safety and readability, looks, honest service advisors that I have visited with during this time, all have pushed me this direction. And finally driving my daughters 2017 Forester premium, sold me on being a Subie owner. Suggested maintenance to ensure long life; 30k diff (F/R) service, 40k CVT Transmission service, and oil changes every 4k. HAPPY TRAILS
The Forester Wilderness passed all your tests with flying colors. Most people will never need anything more.
I wouldn't say that, the guy went on some light logging/forest access roads and severely damaged a skid plate which could be a repair bill of a few hundred dollars. That's exactly what you get when you lightly offroad these crossover vehicles compared to a SUV.
@@pizzasaurolophus This, plus there is a difference from going down a private dirt road and going through actual trails. Even then there is the question of "how often".
If you even weekly what they test drove this vehicle on. Don't expect that suspension and drivetrain to last 100k without some much needed repairs.
I know this from experience, I've been able to handle an Ur-allroad through stuff my jeep buds had issues with. That being said, my Allroad even for a low mileage example got beat up drivetrain wise very fast.
@@asymsolutions for sure. I have an R51 pathfinder with 2 inch lift and 32s my ground clearance is like 11 inches and its still not enough, i am always nervous on real offroad trails, it has no articulation compared to a wrangler, but like 3 times as much as a cross trek and often i get that nervous feeling when you go on 3 wheels, that's when you feel like you're going to break something. I imagine taking one of these Subaru CUVs off road would just constantly be that worrisome feeling in your gut which would be terrible. You feel GOOD when your vehicle just crawls over some obstacle like it's nothing. When you have to go on 3 wheels slipping,sliding and tetering back and forth it's no fun at all.
@@pizzasaurolophus My Jeep YJ suspension busted several times within 100K miles.
You could also disconnect both anti-swaybars on a Subie, if you want more articulation.
High-clearance steel bumpers, rockers, a rear locker/LSD, and some aggressive tires, could make this Forester even better offroad.
Agreed. Wonderful vehicle. Viva Subaru
Having hard buttons for climate control and the heated seats makes this far more appealing for me than the Outback and it's giant clunky touchscreen.
'Also nice to have the physical switch to defeat the "auto stop/start" feature (do other Forester models have the toggle?).
Omg. As a Wilderness Outback owner who came from a 2017 WRX, I miss buttons. The touch screen on the Outback is a hazard to the driver and the road.
@SnowBoarder&Skier no they just overpay and are too afraid to admit they made a mistake buying into hype.
@SnowBoarder&Skier those tesla drivers are actually boring because they don't do activities that subaru drivers can do, imagine braking your screen in the middle of nowhere you can't control the simples things without the tesla screen.
@@alanmay7929 how the hell would you shatter the screen inside your car lmao
As an Outback Wilderness Owner, I will say I'm jealous of the 2 cameras at once, and physical AC/X mode buttons... having everything controlled by a touch screen becomes annoying AF
I find it hilarious that companies are selling different traction control profiles and making them only available on certain models.
.
At least with a locker or lsd it costs more to make the vehicle.
@@KTMcaptain It makes sense in that they're limiting the vehicles they warranty for pushing it's limits. It's weird but buying these packages is almost like buying more warranty coverage.
@@tball84 the problem is that subaru still uses very old techs like who still uses a cd in 2021?! By adding a reworked Samsung tablet as infotainment it should have made the experience way better tbh.
Don't forget about the Harmon Karmon Audio. I don't know why Subaru left that off of the Outback.
@@alanmay7929 I use CDs , in the middle of nowhere radio or streaming doesn't always work
Crosstrek Wilderness is coming Summer '23 and that'll be my 1st Subaru.
I have some coming in now selling for MSRP in Buffalo NY
I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t tempted to trade in the 4runner ORP I just got for 43k. This is about the best vehicle you can get in this segment at this price. But I have smol pp and need the bigger vehicle to help compensate that.
wtf 😂
At least they're bigger than the dudes that have lifted diesels
brah!!
Sorry about your peenor. Nice Toyota tho
I want to sell my 06 LC100 to buy a Subaru, because here in Denmark, the LC costs around 3000 dollars yearly in tax, that’s not including fuel, insurance or anything else…
Can't wait to see you review the Outback Wilderness on your new off-road test track
These Wilderness versions are definitely a trend in the right direction for more off-road capability. I still think there needs to be a true off-road version, so it will be interesting to see how they evolve over the next few years. For now, it looks like a nice marriage between practicality and mild adventure
Would be cool if they'd do the Ascent Wilderness with a low range 4WD, true low range, not just locking the transmission in 1st gear like many are doing. Maybe a limited slip differential, or the option of limited slip front and rear in the Ascent Wilderness combined with low range and the Xmode I bet Subaru would sell a lot of them, and if they'd get the ground clearance up a bit more they'd sell quite well to those who love Subaru, but have migrated to the 4Runner, Jeep, etc. Subaru has the capability to build a cool offroader, but they don't. Maybe go back to a 6 or 8 speed automatic for the Ascent Wilderness and do all the above mentioned...I'd certainly look into one. I don't do any major offroading, but having something I can just jump in and go up to the mountains in the snow if I want, go camping, etc. would be nice.
@@wildbill23c but then it qould not be a conpetitor to the 4runner but more to the landcruiser if you consider the size! And they allready compared the outback wilderness to the 4runner themself
@@me_ca136 The 4Runner isn't even the same class of vehicle as any Subaru, so whoever is trying to compare them to a 4Runner shouldn't be doing vehicle reviews or comparisons.
@@wildbill23c they used the 4 runners off-road prowess as a benchmark.. doesn’t take much to figure that one out.
@David Muela what are you on about? Subaru didn’t use the 4Runner as a mark reviewers are. That being said the wilderness does quite well on and off road. Not as good off-road as the 4 runner but it makes up for that in its on road manners.
I have always seen the Subaru as a great all weather vehicle (snow/slush/ice/wet/dry). I believe that is where they excel, but it is great that you can show what they can really do off the beaten path.
With useful reviews like this one...You have become my favorite vehicle reviewer over the past few months. Keep up the great work!
Honored! Thanks for watching!
Ryan, omg. I really love and appreciate all of your content. Very professional, but still feels one on one. Also, you are so thorough, and don't just do information from a screen or website. Actual footage, out in the field, testing things.
I wasn’t sold on this initially but it’s grown on me. Really looks like a solid daily driver.
I could probably do the same with an inch lift and tires on the Sport I have, but for a drive off the lot adventure machine, this is perfect for the target audience.
Everything I wanted out of the sport trim
Wouldn’t the lift and tires be as expensive as if you just fo straight with the wilderness?
@@UnitedStates. ]
the upgraded CVT is worth the money alone, ups tow capacity as well
I've been comparing a few models, my mind says Rav 4 hybrid because that's the practical route. But even if I wanted it, I can't find any. Not even gas ones. I was looking at Foresters, and I like the Wilderness, though the Sport would probably do everything I need. Though I tow a trailer and bike it would encroach near the limit of the 1500lbs the Sport is rated at. I may get another bike one day and it would exceed the limit. The Wildereness 3000lbs towing would be enough, but 5mpg hit in the long term seems high.
Great review, I would've sold my wife's 2016 Forrester Touring and bought a new Wilderness Forrester...but I just cannot do it when it doesn't come with the new 260 hp Turbo engine...literally a huge selling point for me. Keep up the great content!
The turbo yes is faster but overall the driveablitiy in the 2019 and is improve and much better epa the newer model smoother and handles better and just the improvements made to wilderness it even better for 22 and something you need to understand it not a race car
Plus acual 0 to 60 is 7.9 on the wilderness
@@jeremyanddanaeferguson6020 doesn’t matter. More power is more power. That power can get you unstuck and tow more .
I could almost give up the power if they would contract out the transmission to somebody like ZF.
@@jeremyanddanaeferguson6020 There's no way the Forester wilderness does 7.9 in most situations with this powertrain. Maybe at sea level with a 90 pound driver.
As a life long Oregonian and often Subaru owner, I just want to say: Thank you for pronouncing the states name right.
Oh, also, yeah, looks like I found my new car.
Somebody at work had purchased an outback wilderness. It was nice to be able to take a closer look at it. It’s actually a really nice looking rugged vehicle.
Just realized how great it would be to have a hybrid version of this due to the electric motor not being negatively effected by high altitude and could compensate for the gas engine's drop in performance at high altitude.
How you gonna charge it out in the middle of nowhere? A Jerry can full of electricity?
@@WildernessForever Plug in hybrids have HUGE range. You don't need a Jerry can because you have a fuel tank.
@@WildernessForeverkey word.. HYBRID
I really wish they offered a turbo option for the Forester. Feel like they missed out. Wouldn’t hurt to have a little more pep in your step!
I agree but speaking about the wilderness version, a turbo is useless for an 'offroad' vehicle.
@@PR-xh3nj Not really. Many modern turbos can spool at low RPM, and boost is great at high altitude.
@@RKmndo Which new cars would those be with modern turbos and an automatic transmission that are spooling at low rpm?
Low torque chug of NA is by far the better choice.
@@RKmndo Altitude performance is a complete non factor. A turbo is pointless.
people always seem very concerned about the cvt but it seems like in recent years with proper maintenance they are hardly an issue
They just replace em... Gfs outback 2014 got a new one at 67k ... took Subaru 5 days free of charge with a free loaner
I'd like to see how it tackles these obstacles at elevation with 4 people in it and a days worth of food and drinks in the back to simulate a common day out excursion. Granted people can get out and walk a hard obstacle but if its raining out then some people would have to be dragged out of the car before that happens. More people need to test these kinds of vehicles this way.
Looking at the obstacles, probably it would do okay, maybe a lil more rough for wear. The question is how often can you do this.
If you look at any offroad centric vehicle as a tool, and look at your needs, then you should understand your needs are probably at 70-80% of what they can turn into (at best).
Such a vehicle will not surely last 5-10K of this test constantly done over 6 years without some heavy maintenance, if not breaking down. So if you are some suburbanite who drives to the local ski-lodge and might get caught in a snowstorm on a washed out paved road every year at absolute worse? Sure this sounds like a great idea (until the reality of knocked down trees and branches come into play...looking at you VT/NH/ME bros).
Always have your tools more capable than what you think you need. Because you never know what you need till you need it.
@@asymsolutions And that's why I want to see this Subaru tested as I described because the whole point of a test is to push the vehicle but what I described isn't an unreal situation. I'm curious to see if the extra weight will cause the car to shut down in certain situations to protect the CVT from overheating where as the car might have been fine with just the driver inside. When people do reviews for vehicles like this, they are always empty. But the trend lately is taking these softroaders, loading them up full of gear and people and trying to compete with more purpose built machines. I'm of the over prepare and overbuild mindset for the job needed, but a lot of people are trying to take these things beyond what they are realistically for whether out of ignorance or seeking a challenge.
@@schmojo33 I get you, my point which I failed to relay (sorry) was that they'd probably try to sell it as a success still so the end judgement by these "automotive journalists" would still be the same.
Either way I say we are on the same page. These are not true softroaders. I would consider a 4x4 pickup with rear locker, factory skids and offroad tuned shocks to be the adequate vehicle for this test on the norm.
@@asymsolutions My Forester can run rings around my 2500 HD Silverado. Even with big aggressive tires, without a bunch of weight in the back it can't even get out of my icy driveway . Subaru walks right out in ice and a foot of snow
It feels like Subaru should be the next manufacturer to put an actual geared low range in a crossover-type vehicle like this. It's been 8 years since Jeep did it. Granted for Subaru it would be some engineering $$ as it would almost certainly have to be built into the transmission case as the AWD bits are in there already. There would be benefits like less strain on the CVT parts and the possibility of a more MPG-friendly final drive without killing the ability to climb steep stuff. What they have now though seems plenty good enough for "need to get through this tricky section". Low range would be nice for (the tiny minority of) folks who are into "off-road for hours".
The Grand Cherokee still has a true low range, but I think the current Cherokees just lock the transmission in 1st gear if I recall. I agree, if Subaru would do a true low range 4WD system, X-Mode, and maybe limited slip differentials they'd have a winner for sure...I'd love something like that, the Ascent or the Forester with those features would definitely get me into a Subaru. I loved the old 80's Subaru wagons with the manual 4WD with high and low range...the dang things would go anywhere.
Low Range is nice to just keep you from being on the brakes all the time trying to keep lower speeds...but certainly a help in hill climbing too. It would help take some of the CVT related issues out of the equation in hill climbing scenarios where you run out of momentum and power before getting up the hill.
@@wildbill23c Renegade/Compass do the "lock in 1st" for low range. Cherokee with the right options has true low range, 2.76:1 or something close to that. It's complicated, with a reduction gear set for each axle but it works. :)
I very much doubt there is space to fit it. A good part of the reason they use a CVT rather than an 8-10 speed is because symmetrical AWD leaves limited space for the transmission. There is little reason to invest in the R&D to try get it to work when electric drivetrains without any need for gearing are on horizon anyway.
Thank you for the video! This is exactly what I was looking for (and expected). I use my slightly modified crosstrek with that garbage engine (147 hp) to attempt to get to trailheads deep in the wilderness in Colorado. It is frequently defeated before other cars, even such as the CRV. Subarus seem great and *some* off-roading work, but really struggle when put to the test of big dips off-road. The skid plates are a must.
I got my Ascent with Falken Wildpeak ATs up and back down that road you were on. Was a real pucker factor going through that deep rut segment but it handled it no issues.
@Ray this is a pretty well travelled route and the only way in or out. If you got stuck in the part I mentioned I expect there’d be plenty of folks to help you if only to get you out of the way. It also helps that it’s much easier coming back down than up so if you don’t make it on the way up you can usually just back out.
In other situations I have no idea… bring some rescue gear or call for help. I try to always have some way to make emergency calls if only a satellite beacon.
had a 2015 forester and was blown away how comfy and capable it was living in and exploring the rocky mountains. huuuge amount of storage, very comfortable, great handling, almost impossible to get it stuck, fantastic in snow and mud, rocks, etc. Looks like a '22 wildnerness upgrade would be 100% capable of being a perfect all around adventure rig. My only issue was the CVT in the 2015 and lack of ability to select a low gear for descending super snowy slick steep downhill mountain highways without tapping the breaks (dangerous!). The CVT even in 'low gear' didn't allow for enough engine braking, but we managed. we didn't have x mode or the paddle shifters tho... Too bad they don't offer an actual stick shift manual clutch for the last several years...
Which varient of the 2015 did you have? I recently got a 15 turbo diesel cvt, trying to ascertain how capable it is off road with that transmission...
@@doctordryan had the base model 2.5 gas engine with CVT. Only bell or whistle were the roof racks which were useful. had stopped making the manual by 2015, which was a huge bummer but it was still unstoppable off road. I had driven my friends '12 or '13 iirc, stick shift non-turbo, and it was a dream for offroading. CVT just doesn't have a low enough 'gear' but meh it works. I think with any motor or tranny, Forester is just too damn good in slick or rough terrain.
@@bfboobie i can stop that pyle on a trail 20 mins from my house. lol...
Even on the current gen i can tell you that engine braking going downhill is not great, even in the lowest "gear" you can set on the paddle shifters. Just going down the ramp into the parking garage at work it picks up a lot of speed, i don't see this negotiating a serious downhill without a lot of braking
@salsamancer it's a shame! The rest of the world still sees plenty of love and use of manual cars, yet allegedly there is no market anymore in the USA. The brake tapping on steep downhill passes in winter mountains in a CVT is much more dangerous than a true 1st or 2nd gear manual selection. I have only a vague understanding of how CVT works, but I guess it's a pretty limited system if even by now they can't get a low enough "gear" to safely go down steep grades in winter conditions, where subies are supposed to shine for safety and capability. In my experience it was either tap the brakes and occasionally lose traction and start sliding or spinning, or gain speed and risk getting way too close to the traffic ahead, which likely had an actual low gear to maintain low speed. CVT ughhh.. bring back manuals to the USA pleease, like the rest of the world still uses.
I’d love to get this or the up and coming crosstrek wilderness. Looks and functions amazingly. Viva Subaru Wilderness. Just looks like it’s in its element, no issues.
CVT. I have a 21 Outback Limited with the 2.5. I recently took it on a drive up I-77 in the West Virginia mountains. I loved that the CVT was smooth and changed effortlessly. It was much better than my Chevy Equinox that kept searching up and down through the gears as topography changed.
CVT on the Subbie, that has been a factor that holds me from getting one...
@@crabjay7086 It really depends on what kind of driving you do. If you drive aggressively and like to "wind it out" that is get every rev out of each gear before changing, then the CVT is not for you. If you are looking for a daily driver that will give you good service and great gas mileage then you will enjoy the CVT. The power will depend on whether you get a turbo or not. I understand there might be a little turbo lag, but the turbo boost will make up for it. From my research, Subaru has the best CVT on the market.
@@adamrenissance3322 thanks for the input Adam.
That shot with the dust devil blowing by as you drove by was really neat!
dust devil? is that what that's called? 16:44
I love my SK Forester (2020), no complaints as a family car. I’ll be installing Flatout Suspension next week. Installing larger diameter tires and going down to 17” from those ridiculous 18” made a huge improvement. I’m only jealous of the all black ceiling interior on that wilderness.
Hai 225 65 17 ?
I would love to see you compare the RAV4 TRD Pro to the Outback Wilderness to see two companies "off road CUVs"
Love this car! Imagine if it had the Outback XT turbo motor! Then again, I like the mileage of the 2.5L engine in the Forester.
I was hoping that the Wilderness Forester was going to get the Full Wilderness package, especially the turbo engine. Just wanted a stronger, quicker engine in any Forester and was really hoping this would be the one; but the no-option, 1 engine only, cost saving mentality is still in place. The transmission tweak helps for the purpose of this vehicle.
@@wind7sailor I have a 2014 XT Forester and it is so much fun. I really want a new version but unless they bring the 2.0L turbo back I simply will not be buying a normally asperated version.
The Wilderness CVT gearing: 1st gear is 4.07:1, compared to 3.60 on the standard Forester. Reverse is 4.38 compared to 3.69. Combined with the 4.11 final drive, you can feel the difference. I can plow through deep sand no problem! Of course this is not a true off-road vehicle, but for mild stuff, it's pretty decent.
Nice review BTW. One thing you touch on (pun intended) is the plethora of buttons. Plus it can be a bit confusing, as some settings can be configured from the Info panel on the center console, and the exact same setting is available in the dash menu. Wish they would clean that up so each setting is available in one location only.
Really good review, I feel like this video demonstrated capabilities as well as ones on the new private track do and definitely makes this a very appealing Forester. As a 2020 Outback owner, I’m very happy w/my it & would go Outback Wilderness over a Forester if opp presents. And, let me thank you for taking a moment to chat & selfie w/me at Subie Fest 2021 last weekend. Definitely was best part of the event to meet a YT channeler I follow. Hope to see the work you were producing there…if any????
They need to offer the Forester Wilderness in a manual. I would love to see an off-road test of a CVT vs a manual transmission!
That would be more than just a comparison of CVT vs manual. That would be also a comparison of two different types of S-AWD systems.
"They need to offer the Forester Wilderness in a manual."
Rather you need to learn to enjoy the automatic.
Not gonna lie, the large screen in the Outback vs the Smaller screens in the Ascent (plus the 3rd row, obviously) were big pluses and why we ultimately bought the Ascent. I would love if Subaru put the Turbo in here and bring back the Forester XT.
PHEV will be the new Forester XT IMHO. Won't get that until the redesign though.
@@ZachMauch I’ve heard that rumor too. Using the RAV4 Prime drivetrain, I think. I just hope they’re able to make it work with the mechanical vs through the road AWD
@@ZachMauch If Subaru's weak, underpowered 2020 E-boxer hybrid, sold overseas is their response to the more powerful Hybrids already being sold here by their competitors; there is little hope to see a more powerful Forester and this is the best they can do. Maybe Subaru has something better coming and I hope they do
@@wind7sailor ...because it won't be the same tech. Subaru's current hybrids are mostly for compliance. Most reports and rumors are suggesting they will be leveraging Toyota tech for future hybrids and EVs. It is possible they could even stray away from boxer engines for some vehicles. Rumors are suggesting the forester would use the same engine from the RAV4 prime. That make over 300 combined horsepower and does 0-60 in under 6 seconds.
@@ZachMauch I'd take just the regular Rav-4 hybrid engine with about 220hp and a reasonably quick 7.5 seconds 0-60 instead of 9.2 to 9.9 seconds. I'd just like the option. Being taller, the Forester is a nice small SUV that gives me the legroom I need, but with no option for stronger performing engine and the rattling auto stop/start system, we choose another vehicle in 2020. We'd love a Subaru RAV-FOR-ester Hybrid.
My wife liked the Forester interior size and more compact exterior, so we've kept an eye it just in case they developed a Hybrid(sadly the overseas E-boxer was a disappointment) or if they offered the full Wilderness package including a turbo on this model.
It should work well for driving slowly over beautiful, rocky, country roads, it should fill the need for a lot of people that love to do this kind of thing.
Gorgeous scenery in the backdrop. $36,000 is not bad. A 10 second 0-60 in a brand new car - that's bad. I hold on to my vehicles for more than 10 years and I can only imagine how slow it'll be once it has a 100,000 miles on it.
After 100,000 miles it will still be a 10 second 0-60 used car.
Early 2022. To get one of these, at least in my area, you need to purchase before it ever arrives at the dealership. Waiting for mine to arrive now. It's "in transit." Can't wait to pick it up!
2024 Outback Wilderness here. Just brought her home. Love it. Good stuff my man.
Subaru Forester Wilderness vs Ford Bronco Sport in terms of off road / rock crawl would be a great decider video.
For less than 20k I’ve seen my Caravan GT drive through the same terrains. Still gets me how going down a dirt road and up a hill is what sets the bar for “off road” vehicles.
I prefer this display set up to the new big touchscreen.
That spot in front of the top screen is flat top. I often use it as a shelf
What a badass vehicle... Back to my 2015 Forester lol
I have always liked both the Outback and Forester models. I think the Forester Wilderness looks better than the Outback Wilderness. Although, a simple wheel change would help the Outback Wilderness immensely. The same wheels on the Forester look a bit better for the proportions. The only issue is the lack of turbo, I think they should have included, maybe with a different tune and a little less horsepower. I suppose I would buy the Outback.
I have a 2019 forester sport. I put the yoko get on in and 28 inch wheels with a 2 inch lift. I love it. The forester has more head room for me to sit up with the rear seat down. I travelband overland with it.
I do wish the turbo was available in this model. It it was I would switch and modify it again
I Love my Forester Touring.
I don’t take it serious off roading but our private road and driveway is considered light off roading in the winter months.
I considered a Wilderness, but for serious off road, we take our 4X4 pickup.
Great review Ryan
I only have one Subaru remaining in what was a fleet of Subies over the years. After my 3rd blown head gasket, I am trying out Toyotas now. But this Wilderness model is very attractive. I loved the way my 2019 Forester Sport handled on the road. Great reviews as always. Best on RUclips.
Were you doing proper maintenance?
While the Forester Wilderness does have slightly less ground clearance than the Outback Wilderness, it's shorter wheelbase architecture does give it better approach, departure, and brakeover angles.
Side sill clearance is very important too. It allows for “wheel placement” to be effective. I think the Outback has more of it. 11.5” vs. 9.5”
Ryan, It looks like this is the best trip you have been on since the Death Valley voyage in your 22:25 4Runner ;-) Speaking of Toyota, I hope TMC takes notes on the generous rear head and leg room provide dby the Forester.
Physical buttons like a Porsche??!!
I’m in!! ❤️
Highest rated car in Consumer Reports #1.
Need 260 HP motor and 4k cameras. CVT sucks.
I'd think, as much as (or more than) the nominal extra 1/2" of ground clearance, the improved front approach angle would help counteract that long front overhang (of all Subarus). I'd prefer the extra 2" of interior ceiling height of the Forester to the extra couple inches of length of the Outback.
yeah, the extra 2" helps alot if you plan on sleeping in the car.
Agreed. I'm 6'4" and feel cramped in the Outback. Getting in an out is much tougher in the outback.
Okay, so I own a 19 Crosstrek Premium 6spd manual
I live in upstate New York - southern tier, south of Rochester…. That being said, my Crosstrek is kinda decked out for over landing and old logging road driving….
That being said here - it’s likely better than the OB Wilderness and the Foz Wilderness - the Wilderness package is cool looking and yes they have a bit more ability but you’re still getting a factory built car that’s better for getting groceries than it is for off-roading….
And that’s not me talking smack or being negative…. What I’m simply saying here is you can buy a mid level trim Foz or OB or Trek and instead of getting the craziest bestest most “off-roady” model they sell from the factory, you’re better off buying a mid level trim or better get a base model and instead of financing $40k, you finance $30k and then put a few thousand into the lower trim level - and for less cost than the loaded wilderness package, you have a more off-road worthy Subie
I understand these will sell like crazy and they really are great vehicles and look awesome and really make a statement as far as being a lifestyle vehicle…. But good lord - the amount of money you’d not spend on a payment will really make a lesser trim model WAY better and a lot more fun - and not to mention, you also have the ability to brag a bit as you made your vehicle your own, versus a factory looking wilderness model…..
As a previous owner of several Forester XT vehicles(SG/SH), The only thing I have to say is, "CVT and No Turbo." Okay maybe a few things lol
Subaru stop playin' WE KNOW you're going to be bringing the 1.8L Turbo Forester to the US.. Give it to us NOW!!! Please???
Ryan.. Thank you.. for consistency... You are among the Elite whom is committed to your work.. Very Honored to say I've been following you since the turn of the century.
After my previous experiences I still don't trust Subaru to build a turbo engine that can survive to 200k.
@@0HOON0 You know, I've been buying Subarus since the mid 80s(Still own one, which we purchased new in '17 actually. And yes, Turbo as well) and they have been reliable for the most part. Past 200k miles? Sure.. Have I also owned a lot more brands? I definitely have. Both Japanese and German(Still own German as well). Therefore, for the most part, We have been lucky and fortunate.
I own a 2008 FXT. I just can't imagine getting a new Forester that has a 0-60 time over 10 seconds. I guess I'll just have to accept that there will never be another sport enthusiast minded Forester again.
I have a 2023 on order. This very helpful video helped me decide to do that.
Great video. But please don't complain about too many buttons on the steering wheel. Otherwise they'll replace the steering wheel with a touchpad too...
I like how Subaru give you both the static & dynamic weights for the roofrack. Most manufactures (that I know of), don't give either one, or even roof capacity if no factory rack.
The CVT will always be a deal-breaker, no matter how much I like the rest of the vehicle.
I have a built 2018 and have drown easily up jeep trails, but the only thing that has held me back is the transmission. Really wish they could do away with the cvt as it is an absolute weak point in an offroad setting.
@@ItsPapaa the majority of subaru buyers are still safety enthusiast. unfortunately.
Have you actually driven one with a CVT? I have a crosstrek with a CVT and it got me everywhere I needed to go with standard tires. People like to hate on the CVT but they've never driven it. It works just fine for most scenarios.
@@STATEOFTRANCE14 for the lack of a better word, it is harder to drive like an ass with a CVT transmission car
The CVT is very good transmission for regular use (town traffic + some good to average roads in the wild). It's also the best one for heavy traffic by far, especially compared to the robotic (god forgive me DSG) ones. So maybe it lacks some capability compared to manual one in offroad (which i didn't ever feel, because in my offroad i never had any problems with it), but almost everyone who buys it, never tries something remotely capable to bring the CVT to it's limit.
The washboard on the forest roads in the Deschutes NF is super gnarly. Any non-subaru crossover will blow out its shocks in one summer of forest road driving in Oregon
I just bought a '21 sport.
I wish I had known the Wilderness series was coming out because I would have waited. There's not much else that's changed except the trim color, the front camera, and the things they incorporated specifically for the Wilderness for a better off-road experience. With what I need my Forester for, I don't need an upgrade. But this sure is a beaut....
I do wish they'd allow someone like me, with '21 model, to upgrade to the software that's in this '22 Forester.... I feel like maybe my car could do the exact same.... But alas... They probably won't offer that... And if there's any good reason why that would be a bad idea, someone let me know.
Really like this channel! Lots of info, and reviews presented clearly and without any distractions. Please don’t mess with a good thing!
Love the new Wilderness series. I don't want a wagon so it'd be really nice if they offered the same 260hp motor in the Forester as well as the Outback - at least make it an option.
I doubt Subaru will, since the Ascent and Outback that use or offer options for the 2.4 turbo are build at their factory in the US, that might explain all the problems and recalls on the Ascent, and the Forester, Crosstrek and smaller models are built in Japan. The Forester is a nice Suv, could just use an extra 20 to 40 hp; the sacrifice conceded for decent non-hybrid mpg.
i fitted those yokohama's to my wife's 2008 forester and they are pretty great. i was pleased with how well they did in oregon's snow storm last year.
I hope hey make a wilderness for the Ascent. Since they are really trying to get more into the "wilderness" with upgraded roof racks allowing more weight, I would love to see an 110V outlet somewhere on the vehicle. Subaru has a major chance to break more into the Overland Community with the Wilderness. Give us a locking rear diff and even a really mild low gear.
never gonna happen. cvts for all forever. fuc a subaru. i dont want to get stuck in the middle of nowhere.
Mine is best vehicle I ever purchased. It will never see any off road use but I like the increased ground clearance and rugged features. Mine has never got more than 22mpg in town but I don’t really care. The high ground clearance and semi off road tires are worth the decreased mileage. I don’t have to worry about pulling into driveway and having front drag on ground like the Hondas I had. Hopefully it will snow one day and I can try out the features
I think I prefer the wilderness treatment on this Forester more than the outback. But no turbo??? Come on Subaru!!!
I really enjoy watching your videos where you test a vehicle's abilities. Thank you.
A comparison with the RAV4 TRD Off-Road is in order.
I suspect the TRD is more capable but lacks skid plates.
My 21 trd has good skid plates and the dealer installed pro kit, taller springs and larger tires
Would be a great comparison. I'm thinking Forester: more offroad capable, better roomier interior, but slow. Rav4: nearly as offroad capable, more powerful.
"Now, it is unfortunate that it doesn't have a turbo engine up front, but, if you want a turbo, you could always get the Outback XT." And tack on another 260 lbs and $2,300. Subaru packaged the 2.4T for the global platform on the WRX. At this point, their refusal to offer it in the Forester, Crosstrek, or Impreza hatchback is just annoying ... or a desperate need to make CAFE numbers.
Meeting CAFE standards is extremely important. More important than us getting horsepower. The real ball they've dropped is staying with CVTs while others have good to 8-11spd autos without losing efficiency.
Can you do a new test drive and mud test on the 2024 Forester Wilderness!? I just bought one and am stoked but would love to see a video on the newest model! 😃
Ordered mine back in July, anxiously waiting for it to get here!
Not me angry that the Forester gets the HK sound system and my outback wilderness didn't
It sucks. Just swap the tweeters in the base system and wire in a sub.
Interior cubic ft of the Outback vs. Forester is actually identical!
Great video I can't wait to get our Forester Wilderness in that beautiful Geyser Blue
Baja wilderness would be interesting. 3 inch lift, Independence suspension in the front & locking near differentials. Now that sounds interesting.
Subaru's got nice looking Levorg station wagon which is basically Impreza/Crosstrek. It has 1.8 turbo and sold in Japan and Europe and some other countries. The U.S. Subie fans would be certainly excited about Weird... sorry Wilderness version of Levorg.
Leaving work earlier to watch this ;)
I would not even consider this over my 2018 forester MT unless it had a turbo motor w/ 250+ HP.
Hopefully,the seats are better on this version. The Forester of 2021 lacked thigh support for my wife and I coming out of a Honda Pilot. I'm 6'4" and getting and out is pretty easy. The rest of the vehicle is a winner. My buddy was 1/2 owner of a Subaru dealer but he retired and sold his half prior to the release of the 2022. bummer. good job Subaru!!
Awesome review. Can't wait to see that added info about the difference in the transmission between Outback & Forester. Keep up with the great videos. Saw a few other channels posting stuff but I've gotta check out your review first.
Great seeing you at SubieFest a couple of weeks ago. That's was an awesome turn out and it was cool to see a Forester Wilderness in person. Still thinking about possibly trading in my '19 Sport for the Wilderness or if I should just spend some extra money to upgrade it a bit. That Transmission video will give me the data points I feel that are the biggest improvements/changes. Take care.
For such a severe MPG hit, I would have loved a more powerful engine.
I understand not doing the 2.4 liter turbo, but I do wish they had done the 1.8 liter turbo that was roughly the same power as this engine. That would have really helped at elevation and with low end torque.
Not offering an XT variant for this model is a bummer, as evidenced by every Subaru related forum since its announcement. ☹
16:42 That's awesome that you caught a Dirt Devil on camera and drove through it there.
Great mpg and that’s not going to get better any time soon . This is a great vehicle
Just ordered mine thanks to this video 👍🏽👍🏽
I am not loyal to any manufacturer. The Subaru's are great but I can't accept a CVT for an AWD vehicle. For those who accept the AWD-CVT, enjoy and best wishes.
Seems to work just fine for a whole lot of us.
@@WildernessForever Agree, there are so many Subaru's on the road . Just my preference. I accept that my Civic has a CVT but don't like it.
In my opinion the Forester y so much prettier than the Outback
I own one of these vehicles and your tire discussions were generally positive and I mostly agree but I unfortunately have experience that they are not up to a trail with lots of rocks. This past summer I experienced a side wall cut that was not repairable and with only one spare (thank goodness it was a full size spare, thank you Subaru) I had to shorten my long awaited trip. I am now looking at Falken Wildpeak AT3Ws as they should fit on the factory rims. BF Goodrich K02s would require new rims as I would need to go a 16 inch size to keep circumference close to factory OEM tires but either way a sturdier sidewall is my goal. I understand why Subaru uses the Yokohama tires, they are quiet on pavement and certainly suitable for forest service gravel roads but the sidewall let me down. Rather than carry 2 spares I would rather upgrade the tires as soon as the geolanders wear out which in my case is coming up pretty soon. My comments to Subaru would be to offer as an option more agressive off-road tires, add a turbo, and my personal pet peeve, make the space under the info center wider so a iPhone 14Pro size phone in a case will flat lay across it, as there is no good place to lay the phone.
Too bad the dealer mark up add another $6k where I live.
Great car, I'll consider getting one once they stop taking advantage of this "chip shortage"
The Sport model should use this upholstery material.
I have to ask: Why people push and HOLD the start button like we did with key? A simple and quick push do the exact same thing as you don't need to hold to keep the starter to rev the engine : it is all done automatically for as long as it is required.
Love it. Probably still want to wait until I see some longer term reviews on that CVT first tho 😬
I hope subaru could have added 1 or 2 gears on that cvt like toyota did with their own cvt.
@@alanmay7929 I think they may have added one ? There’s one more lower gear on the paddle shifter I think?
Needs the FA24 motor to be truly relevant
Especially from WRX with manual
Dear Subaru, please bring back the Forester XT (Turbo). Having that extra power is so fun and quite useful in sticky situations.
thank you for not letting off the gas the moment it slips
"Under the hood you get one engine." That's it?! I was expecting two. Deal breaker, ha!!
Dayum that hood release underneath the attached emblem..chefs kiss
I was hoping someone would notice that.
@@drivingsports finaggling underneath the hood for the latch with a hot engine has taught me to appreciate the little things 🤪
Badly needs the turbo. I love our XT!
I REALLY appreciate you beating the **** out of that skid plate!!!
I appreciate that you always test the built-in navigation. But seriously in a world with AA and Carplay does anyone still use built-in navigation?
Rarely. But it’s an option so might as well test it.
What a great location for the Forester Wilderness. There’s so much to see in that area and why not do it with a very capable car.
I think the biggest reason why i went forester over outback for wilderness is harmon kardon sound system, why that is not on the outback wilderness is beyond me
Niche, no bias, review demo … 👍🏼
what I am missing, is adding low range, and probably Subaru could introduce edition Wilderness X with low range and diff locks, and they will cover 99% of usages.