Finally, fantastic video, we have that Lenox, we collect the draing water in a big pot for the plants in the winter, usally it just runs over to the cellar drain
Probably one of the best instructional videos I’ve ever seen. I fix industrial culinary equipment but needed a crash course in the condensing furnace special features. I’m going to tear into mine when I get home tonight. I can hear water sloshing around inside the inducer on start up. And I’m occasionally losing draft proof. Thanks for taking the time to create this informative video.
Pull up the installation manual and check the flue installation. They are manufacturer specific and often where the problem lies. Also check the furnace to see if it's level or pitching very slightly to the front. Make sure the drain plugs are in the right place. Sometimes the installers don't remove or place the drains in the right spot. If that does not solve the problem, you will likely need an combustion analysis performed This will help identify any issues with the heat exchanger and ensure it's burning correctly.
@@love2hvac thanks for the suggestions. I’ll be sure to look at the entire system. I’m my case we’re in the process of remodeling a basement bathroom and had a leak dripping down and pooling on top of the furnace. On my particular model the OA isn’t piped straight into an enclosed burner box. Instead it just dumps into the compartment. I think some grey water may have been pulled into the system. Before your video I didn’t know wether water slosh was a normal sound. At this point, I’m thinking it’s not. Thanks for you help again.
I'm hvac tech, went to school and all that. Watching your videos from trade school you were teaching and now that taking the time and uploading these valuable hands on training which is by far is the best. God bless and keep up great work. As you say you are visual guy. Nothing beats these phenomenal info than abstract from books.
Thanks for your time. I do 6 calls a day. Some of them are PM for furnace. I come across mainly propane ones that around 20 years or so and I read sometimes 6 or 7 ppm or 4 ppm at supply for CO level As hard as it is to check all tubing since bend all the way with my camera. I do have CO sensit Analyzer that gives o2 level also but when I'm working on package unit and for example last night call the whole heat exchanger with solid sheet metal on the side can't even open , I have bring whole blower motor out and look down hopefully to see or catch. I don't take this job as paycheck. I do take pride and every day I listen to Bryan Orr, Craig from Ac service tech, Zach. And any new videos from and etc. As much as I know I still don't know anything eager to learn everyday in my truck I don't waste time. Any recommendations for CO level reading under 10ppm. I document things what I read. But should I condemn the unit due to potential hazard since there is something going according to Mr Jim Bergman even 2 ppm is issues at the house I question myself why? Maybe gas cooktop or any other gas appliances around house. Am I to sorry using the word Anal or i should not be worried. Thanks for any inputs
I love it when a tradesman takes pride in his and her work! As for PPM I agree with Jim Bergman ( great source of information). Carbon monoxide build up in the body so even small amounts over time build up in the body. The cause for CO is another story. A 20 year old Heat Exchanger will still have an inducer fan meaning the HE is negative pressure. if the HE cracks its more likely air will leak into the HE than CO out of it. Cracked heat exchange's should still be condemned but is less likely the source of the high CO levels. The first thing I look to is the Water heater especially the plastic plugs next to the draft hood connector. As people seal up homes an already inadequate amount of combustion air becomes a big issue. Winds, bathroom fans, kitchen fans, clothes dryer and even the furnace without proper combustion can depressurize a home quickly. the Outside air comes in via the water heaters flue carrying with it Carbon Monoxide. Many others things to consider as well such as an attached garage, fireplace, candles and even false alarms such as charging batteries (think Golf Cart). There is a great book by bob Dwyer called Carbon Monoxide: A Clear and Present Danger - If you get the chance take a combustion analysis class that goes even deeper into the subject. Im glad your listening to Bryan Orr, hes a good friend of mine. I will be presenting again this year at the Symposium. You might alos Like Nate Adams the house whisperer with HVAC 2.0. they teaching to look at the house as a whole sytem.
@@love2hvac Thank you so much for putting time and answering my questions. It means a lot to me. Keep up great works. Lots of students like me are thriving to get as much info from Awsome Teachers like you. God bless 🙏
I have the 90% furnace. I had it service due to no air blowing. The svcman hesitate to repair my furnace. They offer to sell me their new furnace but mine only need a repair. No one wants to repair they only offer to sell new furnace. Any honest repairman out there??? I think my fan motor msybe bad but no repair man wants to work on it.
Couple time watcher, first time caller..... Only video I found with the 4 pressure switch Lennox. I have been messing with furnace for two winters. After watching your video and reading the whole manual as you mentions, I might have found my problem. The red silicon hose is not tight on the fire box. Put a little zip tie on both ends (box and pressure switch) and the furnace has been problem free for two weeks. Will replace all hoses soon. A BIG THANK YOU!!! 👍 Keep up the great videos!
Dr. Branaman, thank you for the total anatomy of the high efficient furnace. This is the best detailed description. I am glad that I ran into this site. Now I feel confident to take my furnace apart and assemble it back.
Hey dude! I'm not an hvac tech but over the years have watched your course a few times and I just wanna say thank you and let you know it has been useful in my professional career
I wish my HVAC installer would have watched this video. It took 7 years for them to install it correctly without exhaust leaks, electric issues. I think I'll get licensed to do my own HVAC work from now on.
TY, you are the best teacher. you make this furnace so easy to understand. Im a full time hvac tech and you just explained a problem i have with this kind of furnace.....! thank you
I just saw a condenser unit with some wiring on top of it, and I immediately thought of you. I told the owner of the bar where it's located, and he said he will look into it.👍
Ty, another Awesome video. It’s comforting to know that there are great teachers like you, who have a formal education in their subject, knowledge, experience , and teaching ability and are totally committed to actually teaching the students. I can learn more from one of your videos than from an entire semester at my lame school, Ivy Tech in Richmond indiana. If your school is offering courses online, count me in--I’m coming!!! Plus: Some schools are just in it for the moneyJust a little history on my old school, IvyTech in Richmond Indiana, that just recently made a guy an electrical instructor, who had no formal electrical education. He had a PhD in some off the wall subject, which impressed the hiring people, so he got a teaching job while being an incompetent. It shouldn’t have surprised my that much, because they also hire some bitter old crones in the nursing program that are totally incompetent to teach anything; I learned that first hand.
First, thank you! Second, I am a bit bitter with the for profit schools myself. Maximize profits and water down the education. From my experience across the country, the for profit schools, want the loan money! I have known a lot of good instructors that left the education side because of it.
Late to this one but another great video. In tomorrow’s class we start learning about different gas fired appliances, high efficiency furnaces included. Read the chapter then came right to this video!
I think the vacuum/pressure switch is actually a differential pressure switch which measures pressure at two different points in the flue path and subtracts one pressure from the other. This result can then be used to determine air flow in the flue. If the differential pressure is 0, then there is no flow, thus the motor is not turning or the flue/supply is obstructed. By the way the video was very educational. I really liked the tip of removing the blower motor and inspecting the bottom of the heat exchanger for dirt. Thanks.
great job explaing. QUESTION- Cañ a rebuild kit be purchased for this 90 percent furnañce. I wouldn't even start to do maintenance on this unit unless I had all gaskete. thank you TY
My old 80% Janitrol furnace uses a similar diaphragm pressure switch to sense the negative pressure in the inducer like millions of other furnaces do, although it only has 1 of them instead of 4. That black rubber vacuum hose to the diaphragm cracked from aging and caused a leak that caused the furnace to not start. The crack was right at the nipple on the inducer housing and there was some slack in the hose so I was able to cut the cracked end of the hose off for a quick repair. Then later I got some automotive silicone vacuum hose of the same ID and replaced the entire length of hose. The silicone hose does not crack with aging and will last indefinitely. If I had a furnace with 4 of those vacuum hoses I would upgrade them all to silicone right away.
Its true the Silicone is less likely to crack. I also replaced all the vacuum hoses on my truck with silicone for the same reason. This particular furnace uses really thick hoses and they are even square on the outside. the square allows for the cracks to be visible during servicing so they can be replaced before they fail.
@@love2hvac My Janitrol 80% is a lower end unit and the hose they used was the basic round rubber stuff that will likely fail inside of 10 years. Now if an expensive high efficiency unit is going to have upgraded square hose to make cracks visible, it would make more sense to me to just use silicone hose that probably will never crack at all. But I also understand that corporate accounting often doesn't use that type of logic and the better square rubber stuff is probably still cheaper than silicone. The way those hoses are situated in the unit and there are 4 of them, I would say it isn't practical to regularly inspect every inch of them and proactively find a crack that is just beginning, before it causes a breakdown. It's more likely the square profile will only make it easier to find which of the 4 hoses are cracked once you actually have a breakdown and you are actually pulling hoses out for inspection to troubleshoot it. So the proactive course of action would be to upgrade to the hose that won't crack in the first place. Same as in your truck, because realistically you probably aren't going over all the vacuum hoses in the truck until after you have a breakdown.
A lot of things to go wrong with these new furnaces, the older ones were much simpler and lasted very long. Some of these components last average of 5 years, like the hot sensor ignitor. My 25 yr old furnace still going strong. :) Only changed a thermistor. The piezo ignitor lasting whole time so far. It's the cost of increasing efficiency. Sensors, switches, solenoids prone to go bad. I guess what you save in heating bills, you can use for repairs.
I started on the old furnaces. We replaced thermocouples more than people replace hot surface ignitors. We replaced pilot assemblys, leaking pilot tubes, gas valves, limit switches and the natoriouse fan limit switches on a daily basis. As time moves forward changes happen. You can spend all your time fighting the change or you can adapt to it. The issues with the old furnaces is the heat exchanger wears out, cracks and leaks. They where never made to last for ever. Natural draft furnaces where also natoriouse for back drafting and pushing carbon monoxide into the home in windy days. These are some of the solutions with technology. The advancement in the automotive industry far outpaced the HVAC industry. Lots of people where against computers, and fuel injection but here where are moving forward without missing a beat. We use to have phones connected to the wall that lasted forever, now people replace them ever 2 years in average costing neat $1000. People replace their TV every 2 - 3 years even though there is nothing wrong with the old one. Nobody is making you replace your old furnace. I Highly recommend you have a low level CO monitor. Trying to convince people to not consider a newer, safer, more effencent furnace is not productive. If it's about simplicity and mastalgia just go to a wood burning stove. Cost lest to operate and last longer.
Love this comment. I am a retired automotive engineer and read comments from people nowadays critical of modern fuel injected engines and somehow incorrectly believed the older vehicles with carburetors were somehow better. I was a mechanic in the 70s and trust me cars ran poorly and broke down very frequently. New models run extremely well, have great drive ability in very extreme weather, not the case with prior tech. So I am half way thru this video and yout enthusiasm really shows. I had a pile of twigs in my pvc concentric vent exhaust that I discovered as I was doing preventative maintainable getting ready for winter use of my furnace. Since there are differential pressure switches monitoring the system, if furnace runs and doesn't set trouble codes is it safe to assume piping is clear of debris or do I need to check something else. Thanks again for posting this video.
Lennox really should thinks about redesign the open panels. When equipment becomes old it’s difficult to put them back into right position to keep the blower side sealed well
Thats true, but I'm a fan of blue taping all the panels especially when in the attic. I learned that with high efficiency homes and blower door testing. How about the Lennox wave heat echanger and the famouse pulse furnace for a failure! Haha if I can find one I will make a video of that.
@@love2hvac Cool, that will be nice. I used to have a customer who opened the panels by himself, but didn't put the panel back into correct position due to the shape of the whole unit slight changed (placed horizontal). The blower motor pulls air from the gas side into the return side. You can smell gas in the whole house. The two panels needs to be pushed tight to each other to have them at correct position. If one panel has problem the other wouldn't stay there tightly, which is a bad design.
Excellent explanation. Can those composite inducer fans be repaired by replacing the $3 bearing vs spending $400 for a new one? Usually that's was causes the noise?
It's usually a sleeve bearing, not a roller so there is not much you can do with it. I would replace it then see if you could rebuild the old one for a backup. I like when motors had oil ports. Manufacturers build them to sell the whole assembly. I have replaced many 80% metal assemblies and also just the motors. I have only had to replace a fuew composite assemblies from a 90+ and they were from improper drainage and water building up in the secondary.
Question on the collector box. I have a system I maintain that has a metal collector box that is starting to rust right where the drain tubing port is. There have been issues with the condensate drain system in the past. Does that condition automatically put the secondary heat exchanger into a suspected condition? Speaking of high efficiency furnaces, did you ever work on the Lennox Pulse? My employer has a site with one of those. No inducer fan that I could see so being the curious person I am I looked it up, fascinating system --- 90+ efficiency 30 years ago. System still works, well, no complaints, but most certainty needs to be replaced soon. Thanks for the video. To date I have not found anyone who took the time to dismantle a system completely.
Thank you. Rust does not mean there is a problem but it does warrant further inspection. The secondary heat exhanger has more connections and more points to leak but it's stainless steel so it should not rust. The primary is usually not stainless and is not suppose to condensate. It needs to be checked for rust. If rust and a combustion analysis performed. I was one of the few people that liked those old lennox pulse furnaces. I had the special tool to pull the spark plug, although if they system was running right they where never dirty. It used little explosions or puffs. That's what pushed the gas out without an inducer. There was a flapper valve behind the bolts and steel plate pannel in the front. That was always the issue. It allowed for the combustion air to be pulled in and when the gas ignited it was forced closed and the exaust had to go out the other way. It was pretty cool but very heavy. The big issue is the secondary heat echanger is notorious for leaking. Many where recalled because of that. I would inspect it thoroughly and make sure the customer had a few low level CO monitors. (Do not rely on alarms)
Do you prefer the furnaces with secondary heat exchangers? I hear others saying they are trouble and that they demand more looking after. Thanks for sharing! Its awesome to see one disected!
The biggest issue is improper installation. If they are installed correctly they will operate just the same. With the skilled training shortage there is a lack of people to properly install them. Some larger companies want people to install them fast, and others want to install them the same way that they did 40 years. Those people train the new people and the problem continues. Every single time I had a company or customer with a problem furnace it was because of improper installation. They don't even read the installation manual. #2 cost of repair. The very lack of training for installation also leads to lack of training for service and repair. If you hire a person who only worked on car carburetor engines to repair a file injection, the results will not be good. Excess time, trying parts, and frustration will be the result. A 90% has the same components but with a plastic flue, plastic inducer, a drain, a secondary heat exchanger and a second pressure switch. Everything else operates the same. Single stage 80% and single stage condensing 90+ very similar. 2 stage 80% vs 2 stage 90+ condensing, very similar. The big issue is Modulating 90+ condensing furnaces. These have much more expensive parts and they are much more difficult to properly diagnose. There is a big difference between a single stage 80% and a modulating 90+ condensing furnace. Are they more prone to failure? If they are installed correctly, no! If they areinstalled incorrectly, yes! Do they cost more to repair? Properly trained techs with single or 2 stage 90+ furnaces no. By Improperly trained techs, yes. Modulating 90+ furnaces yes. Hopelfully that helps
@@love2hvac That helps a lot man! Thanks! I would like to be an installer and a traveling tech but am getting a bit old to be running ducts in tight crawl spaces. My old 88 furnace I can draw a schematic of it by memory now. I did thoroughly inspect the heat exchanger yesterday and clean the coii put in a new pilot sensor but the igniter box is bad so still feeding the wood stove. The heat exchanger is still rock solid, no flexing and no cracks Someone has wired ithe fan wrong in the past,. As soon as the furnace comes on the hi ac fan comes on immediately on pin 2 of the 90-370. Then when the thermostat is satisfied 24v is killed to the 90-370 relay and then the honeywell fan limit switch becomes active on pin 5 normally closed to run the medium fan until the furnace cools down and the fan limit shuts off the blower. The scary part is the heat limiter has not been active for no telling how many years while the furnace is burning. On this furnace that leaves just one measure of over heat protection... the thermal switch on the fan. I have just days ago caught this by watching fan limit videos and how they work.
last summer I was checking the furance out and the burner inspection window was full of leaves, removed it and vaccumed all the leaves out, seems no one around me has any grillls over there PVC intake tubes
Please don't put grills over the intake or exhaust. It's will cause freezups in the winter. You can put a run down pipe on the intake though or even a tee that will prevent that. Always check the installation manual for what that model required. A leaf blower works well to blow the debris back out.
I think that black tube on dual pressure switch is under a negative pressure just like the red hose. I think that way the switch is seeing the P differential ???
Called auxillary limits, required for downtown and counterflow but nice to have in upflow. Multi positional furnaces usually have them. If the primary limit fails these will trip. They are at a lower trip (open) point that the primary limit.
Very interesting. As some said below , these HE furnaces are great when they work but repairs are excessively costly. I understand that the US Government is going to require the phase out of the 80 percent furnaces and these will be the only option , all in the name of efficiency. Nobody, however, figures the cost , resources and energy to build replacements on an increased frequency.On average per all these "experts" you will own 3 to 4 HE furnaces versus 2 of the 80 percent types on average life cycles. In my case, the the ECM module failed after 5 years with no reason apparent. The labor cost to replace it ( part covered under 5 tear warranty) more than ate up any energy savings to that point. So , assuming the HE option is mandatory, they should make the manufacturers provide minimum 20 year heat exchanger warranties and 10 years on the parts.
@@love2hvac Yes, I found and watched that. ( I do enjoy your videos). Technologically, when you were still in diapers, I purchased one of the very first Lennox Pulse Furnaces. I replaced a 12 year old 60 percent-er NG furnace with a ( as advertised) 95 percent-er. It had its issues , noise, and some breakdowns, but I felt I got my money's worth because the increase in efficiency was that great. Lennox , with some Government prodding , agreed to replace premature HE failures with a new HE or new 92 percent-er condensing furnace. We opted for the latter and I could see from casual inspection that the quality of the parts within had decreased, but in the name of good citizenry.... I am not in the business but grew up working with my building contractor father and learned a lot about the trades hands on. What I have observed over 45 years, owning two houses, that HVAC techs, are like the wind. They come and go and I have never seen the same people twice. Their knowledge and skills ( and attitude) are all over the map. My latest service supplier ( rated number 1 in all local polls) is great about showing up ,but with no parts and only basic tools ( no manometer, no combustion sensors , etc). A few weeks ago ,my two stage "Elite" furnace ( brand rhymes with a tool you use to smooth a cut pipe end) would not turn on. The board said error code 45. I looked it up in the manual ( I can read and can follow a circuit diagram) . Six things to check. I checked 1-5 and no issue. Number six was the inducer switches. I dragged out my VOM and watched a YT video on how to check them. Did so and, voila, the low pressure switch was not closing. Since I didn't (then) stock parts in my house, I called my " red carpet" installer/service supplier to come and fix it ( informing the dispatcher in advance of my furnace model and part needed). The guy shows up- repeats most all I did and tells me I had it correct. No parts on the truck ,though, ,of course. Next day , maybe, and $342 plus 8% tax ( the tech said the markup for the parts was 300 percent, plus travel, etc.) , in addition to this 200 dollar service "call". I said no thanks. Ordered both OEM ( yes OEM) switches in duplicate and had them noon next day for $60 bucks ( with shipping). Seven minutes to replace both. If you read the news a lot you will note that most people in this country do NOT have 500 bucks for an emergency. I can afford the $342 easily but what about those that can't ? I can tell you about my "professionally" installed (expensive) BW Water heater that they insisted that a condensate drain was need for the PVC flue., etc. etc. I can tell you about ten other stupid and costly ( to me) things that were done over the past 40 years by these techs. Anyway, a serious question for you. I asked the tech to check my outlet gas pressure in the furnace ( trying to get my 200 bucks worth) . Advised ( after my loaded request) they don't have manometers, but he "thought' ok because "factory set". That MAY be true, but is it possibly affected by my having a gas fireplace (thank God we had that to keep us warm overnight) installed, in addition to my gas water heater. That is, if they all fire at the same time would the pressure be ( adversely/significantly) affected ???
@@love2hvac As a yesterday update, my neighbor next door passed away suddenly a few months ago. His brother , checking on the house, noted a leak on the top of the (relatively new ) water heater and asked if I could take a look. Upon observation , I noted the leak was between the heat nipple and cold water copper supply . I said it was probably caused by the “professional” installer soldering the adapter fitting after attaching it to the nipple or not being careful with the Teflon wrap. So I cut the pipe ,replaced the nipple with proper threading and rejoined the supply and all is well. I also noted that the professional installer ( local established firm ) did NOT hook up the condensate drain from the draft inducer blower and that some water had backed into the fan (similar to what happened to me for my professionally installed BW). A 2 dollar piece of tubing to the Little Giant and all is well there. My point is what does a”normal” consumer have a right to expect . Do we have to read all the instructions ourselves and stand over them as they work?
I don't have an answer or solution for that. Shoddy work absolutely ticks me off. Right now companies are focused more on sales and marketing rather than skills and training. Inspectors are over worked and underpaid, they only look for some code prices and not a quality install. The BBB sold out to advertising. It's a problem without a solution.
Other than changing the filter, what maintenance would prevent the secondary exchanger from clogging up? I use washable synthetic fibre filters and have had no issues in ~18 years.
Filtration is the most important thing. You must keep a very clean house, the washable filters are typically the dirty units with the exception of the Paul Harvey allure pure filter that blocked so much airflow. It lasted this long so I would not change now. When the time comes to replace look at a 4 to 6" media filter. Other maintananace is clearing the drains, flue and intake pipes. Cleaning the flame sensor are the big ones.
Our furnace doesn't run that much. Well insulated with a setpoint of 64F in a Seattle type climate. Got me worried now lol. I think I better inspect the 2nd HX. Would a inspection from the bottom be sufficient? I only have room for a 1" filter. Thanks for the tips!
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Hi Ty! With These new 90 percenter furnaces it looks like it does away with the old smoke pipe like on oil furnaces? When I clean the old oil furnaces I have to clean the smoke.pipe and chimney. Do you have to clean the pvc exhaust pipe some how? Or is the soot none existing since its a condensing unit.
I have not had the pleasure to work with a condensing oil furnace. I would think with proper combustion analysis and operation it would not be necessary on the condensing oil furnace. I know on the standard oil furnaces I had to clean the flue when it wasn't burning right. This was misaligned electrodes, swirl plate improperly set, nozzle dirty worn or improperly sized, or failed ignitions causing the excess fuel build up. The 90% will have more controls to protect against that. The condensation will remove a lot of that alos. I imagine worse case scenario it would be easier to clean. In short I do not have a definite answer.
@@love2hvac thanks for the reply Ty! I was just curious. I am new the gas funace end of the business. We just got some new properties that have them. Thanks again. Super videos.
Also longer run time on low speed continues to filter the air. I have Trane 90% with clean air effects filter. Is that filter worth it ? I don't know if adding electricity is capturing enough dust to make it worthwhile.
I have not had a chance to play with the trane effects filter. My typical stance is against electronic filters because if ionization and ozone generation. There are some exceptions to that and that filter may be one. If it ionized and then is recollected in the filter, that would be an exception.
Could you make a video on installer setup options (ISU) advanced menu for thermostats....I know each thermostat is different but I feel like someone like you can make a very good video, explaining all the options for different applications... like ISU # "218" ISU name "reversing valve" ISU options "O/B on cool, or O/B on heat.... Some say most revering valves switch on cool...but how do I know for sure? It just seems like the ISU is full of information..that is over my head...
Thanks Rick. I need to film the electrical portion, the heat pump portion then I will do thermostat installer setup video examples, vocabulary and why's.
Varies by manufacture. Find the model number of the furnace. The search for the LP conversion kit for that furnace. It will include detailed instructions, the spuds/offices the spring for the gas valve, the diffusers for the burners. After that is installed variety gas pressure input and put put and perform a combustion anylaysis. Anyone working on LP appliances in Texas must have a certificate from the Texas Railroad Commission.
Ty or anyone else..one question. I was under the assumption that combination gas valve had the pilot and pilot thermocouple built in however on on new furnases this is done by the furnace control board. In this video he refers to the gas valve as combination gas valve... What makes it a combination gas valve is my question. Go easy on me I am learning too
Great question Combination gas valve means it's a combination of a pressure regulator and solinoid valve. In the old old days those components where separate. There are many types of combination gas valves be it standing pilot, intermittent pilot, redundant or smart valves. Thinking of it as a combination of those 2 is important in diagnosing. Remembering it reduces gas pressure and separately it opens and closest the flow of gas helps remember to check each function.
@@raymondcoleman6140 oh how exiting!! Lete know when you pass. Looking for little pieces of information will lead you to learn lots other things. Tests always make me nervous so if I can do it, you can do it.
Thats a great question On the data tag of the old furnace find the _____Input BTU/hr and the _______ % AFUE efficiency _______ input BTU x _______% = __________Output BTU for the house example 100,000 BTU input x 60% AFUE= 60,000 output BTU for the house That original furnace output is important , lets say I want to replace it The old furnace heated the home well without short cycling so the 60,000 is okay ( heat load calculation would be better) Now lets look at a new furnace. If I bought a 100,000 BTU furnace that was 98% AFUE the output would be 98,000 way too big! but if I bought a 62,000 BUT input x 98% AFUE= 60,000 BTU outpout the same as the old one. Hopefully that helps
Excellent continent after watching your video and if they follow your instructions and read the manual there should be no reason why 90% of all the 98% furnaces get installed wrong and you’re lucky if you can get 80% out of those 98% install furnaces
I’ve installed 80%, 90%+ single-stage, two-stage and modulating furnaces for 44 years. Many on LP, which they are not designed to run on. I will never push anything more than the simple 90-92% single-stages anymore. If you run on LP or want higher than that, save your money because you’ll need it for preventative maintenance and repairs. I had an igniter fail after two months on an NGK~ all manufactured in Saltillo, Mexico. I had a heat exchanger collector box rust out after 9 years and Goodman stopped manufacturing repair parts. Nothing but over-complicated, over-priced junk and poor customer service anymore.
the actual combustion efficiency is no more than 90%...beyond that is an educated guess based on a lot of potential variables outside of a lab environment. That is also how you can tell if your combustion analyzer is "true" or if it is coloring the measurements beyond 90 (marketing world). This is also why the secondary/condensing heat exchanger in the Payne PG9 92%, for example, is the exact same secondary as the Carrier MVP/MVB 96% modulating furnace. See what I am saying? Same primary, same secondary..., I will say it again: same primary and same secondary. The actual actual combustion efficiency is 90% or slightly less in all condensing gas furnaces. This marketeer shitshine world we have created says one is 92% and the other is 96% haha. These examples are not exclusive to Carrier/Bryant/Payne.
Then add to that, these highly refined energy efficient devices become energy hogs when oversized and/or improperly installed/maintained. A 2-stage furnace efficiency is measured in high fire (2nd stage), with a very steep drop off in efficiency while operating in 1st stage (think about it...what changes? not the cell size, the flame size changes with a static cell size... = way different thermal transfer dynamic. Now consider also the variable speed fan in the "more efficient" models, which actually uses more energy to overcome restriction when: filter dirties, or if the furnace is oversized and/or if the ducting is not large enough for the variable speed fan to operate within it's design range static pressure. People think they are going to get lower energy bills, but most times they get an oversized 2-stage furnace which costs them more to run that if they had just gotten a 92% with a PSC or ECM multispeed (non-variable) fan. But don't even get me started on "variable speed" and how it is maybe the biggest marketing misnomer I have noticed in this industry.
"Required". Required by whom? Are these ultra-complicated and expensive machines cost effective over their total life???? Or is this another expensive, pointless dictate from bureaucratic petty tyrants making life more difficult for everyone? (All I hear about these are those paper-thin heat exchangers rusting through, fans not working, cramped working conditions, more problems with water condensate damage and EXPENSIVE EXPENSIVE EXPENSIVE REPAIRS!!!) PS: am big fan of your channel, but have total disgust for the hideous things government has done to this industry. "I wish the regulations made as much sense as your fine videos."
I'm against the over regulations myself. It's a bit crazy to say you can sell the product here but not there. I have found the biggest issues with this equipment is installation. Improper airflow, over firing under firing the furnace, lacking combustion analys. Notoriously people are not piping the combustion air from outside. This pulls from the house creating negative pressure and pulls in more chemicals that kills the heat echanger. That secondary is stainless steel and if the drain is actually done correctly there is not an issue. For foamed houses it is the best gas heating solution. Birds in the flue are the one unsolved issue. It's the modulating furnaces I see the most issues with. That is one example of repairs exceeding benefits and initial cost. Either way they are here so we have to learn and adapt. It will be interesting to see is gas will even be allowed in new homes in the next 15 years
@@love2hvac Thank you, Ty. Duly noted. I'm still on the low end of the 90% learning curve (your videos the best on this) - have to learn to think of the house as a bit of a space capsule. I thought RSES was a place to go to discuss how deformed the HVAC business is b/c of the regs. I can't stand it. There must be a way to push back on this. [Dictating "efficiency" is such a stupid premise - "duhhh, who doesn't want efficiency?" But that stupid EPA has made a fetish out of it. And natural gas is so dirt cheap they have to flare it off (!). Maybe that's why it's called the "Montreal Protocol" -- have it in a place where people don't worry too much about air conditioning. Natural gas banned for home heating? Yes, we are fast approaching that level of stupidity. Thanks for the warning. You're reminding me I'm an old man who is sickened by a future like that.] [ Have to do homework on what "modulating" furnaces are. "Two-stage" sounds like a winner for comfort/selling purposes - nothing to do with that stupid EPA. The customer should have the option. And the outside-to-outside combustion air is like "of course, why didn't I think if that?" -- but those are things you can sell the consumer; don't have to be rammed down their throats by the disgusting EPA. And we've gotten along fine without houses being built with the atmospherics if an airplane. I almost cry when I watch those videos that go something like, "Today we're checking in on an R12 system that's worked flawlessly since the '70s..." It's the state of America in microcosm.] .
Yep, They keep passing laws making the unit more energy efficient but allow the new houses to be built like a colander. In Vegas, and Phonix the hottest climates in the country they are putting units in the attic (not foamed) with the little trapdoor offset over a shelf in a closet. Only 1 person benefits from that, the builder. If we ever needed a regulation would be new houses are not allowed to have units in unconditional attics and must require pulldown ladder!!!
@@love2hvac "Old Man Syndrome" here again. I'm thinking "If I get into this business, I'm just not going to do attics and crawl spaces - sorry, get a younger guy to suffer that." Speaking of crawl spaces, Anti DIY had one where the homeowner stored a casket down there. That even set Mr. Anti DIY back - "now I've seen everything".
🤣 The homeowner would faint if he found his furnace in all those pieces. Next time I want to see you do that in a hot attic.😂🍺🍺🍺🥃🥃🍇🏌 Stay safe. Retired(werk'n) keyboard super tech. Wear your safety glasses.
I had to return that furnace to the company that lent it to me. Did you know Lennox used so many different screws? It finally got back together, I think....
Dude you actually pulled out the heat exchanger to show us. What a gentleman lol
I even got it all back together off camera. I should have done a time laps
@@love2hvacunlike me, I'm sure you had no remaining "extra screws"😂
Finally, fantastic video, we have that Lenox, we collect the draing water in a big pot for the plants in the winter, usally it just runs over to the cellar drain
Make sure your using an acid neutralizer. The condensate can wreak havoc on copper or steel pipes. IDK about the plants
Excellent. A very detailed and informative video. I know so much more about how these system works now.
Ty is an excellent teacher! I’m not even an HVAC tech but I’m glued to the screen.
Probably one of the best instructional videos I’ve ever seen. I fix industrial culinary equipment but needed a crash course in the condensing furnace special features. I’m going to tear into mine when I get home tonight.
I can hear water sloshing around inside the inducer on start up. And I’m occasionally losing draft proof.
Thanks for taking the time to create this informative video.
Pull up the installation manual and check the flue installation. They are manufacturer specific and often where the problem lies.
Also check the furnace to see if it's level or pitching very slightly to the front.
Make sure the drain plugs are in the right place. Sometimes the installers don't remove or place the drains in the right spot.
If that does not solve the problem, you will likely need an combustion analysis performed
This will help identify any issues with the heat exchanger and ensure it's burning correctly.
@@love2hvac thanks for the suggestions. I’ll be sure to look at the entire system. I’m my case we’re in the process of remodeling a basement bathroom and had a leak dripping down and pooling on top of the furnace.
On my particular model the OA isn’t piped straight into an enclosed burner box. Instead it just dumps into the compartment. I think some grey water may have been pulled into the system.
Before your video I didn’t know wether water slosh was a normal sound. At this point, I’m thinking it’s not.
Thanks for you help again.
Not into hvac work myself but this presentation is amazing and extremely detailed. Learned a lot to about the unit in my house. Thanks!
Everything you talk about is so easy to understand and enjoyable. Thank you.
I'm hvac tech, went to school and all that. Watching your videos from trade school you were teaching and now that taking the time and uploading these valuable hands on training which is by far is the best. God bless and keep up great work. As you say you are visual guy. Nothing beats these phenomenal info than abstract from books.
Thanks for your time. I do 6 calls a day. Some of them are PM for furnace. I come across mainly propane ones that around 20 years or so and I read sometimes 6 or 7 ppm or 4 ppm at supply for CO level
As hard as it is to check all tubing since bend all the way with my camera. I do have CO sensit Analyzer that gives o2 level also but when I'm working on package unit and for example last night call the whole heat exchanger with solid sheet metal on the side can't even open , I have bring whole blower motor out and look down hopefully to see or catch. I don't take this job as paycheck. I do take pride and every day I listen to Bryan Orr, Craig from Ac service tech, Zach. And any new videos from and etc. As much as I know I still don't know anything eager to learn everyday in my truck I don't waste time.
Any recommendations for CO level reading under 10ppm. I document things what I read. But should I condemn the unit due to potential hazard since there is something going according to Mr Jim Bergman even 2 ppm is issues at the house I question myself why? Maybe gas cooktop or any other gas appliances around house. Am I to sorry using the word Anal or i should not be worried.
Thanks for any inputs
I love it when a tradesman takes pride in his and her work!
As for PPM I agree with Jim Bergman ( great source of information).
Carbon monoxide build up in the body so even small amounts over time build up in the body.
The cause for CO is another story. A 20 year old Heat Exchanger will still have an inducer fan meaning the HE is negative pressure. if the HE cracks its more likely air will leak into the HE than CO out of it. Cracked heat exchange's should still be condemned but is less likely the source of the high CO levels.
The first thing I look to is the Water heater especially the plastic plugs next to the draft hood connector. As people seal up homes an already inadequate amount of combustion air becomes a big issue. Winds, bathroom fans, kitchen fans, clothes dryer and even the furnace without proper combustion can depressurize a home quickly. the Outside air comes in via the water heaters flue carrying with it Carbon Monoxide.
Many others things to consider as well such as an attached garage, fireplace, candles and even false alarms such as charging batteries (think Golf Cart).
There is a great book by bob Dwyer called Carbon Monoxide: A Clear and Present Danger -
If you get the chance take a combustion analysis class that goes even deeper into the subject.
Im glad your listening to Bryan Orr, hes a good friend of mine. I will be presenting again this year at the Symposium. You might alos Like Nate Adams the house whisperer with HVAC 2.0. they teaching to look at the house as a whole sytem.
@@love2hvac
Thank you so much for putting time and answering my questions. It means a lot to me. Keep up great works. Lots of students like me are thriving to get as much info from Awsome Teachers like you.
God bless 🙏
I have the 90% furnace. I had it service due to no air blowing. The svcman hesitate to repair my furnace. They offer to sell me their new furnace but mine only need a repair. No one wants to repair they only offer to sell new furnace. Any honest repairman out there??? I think my fan motor msybe bad but no repair man wants to work on it.
Thank you, I have learned more with you than the school with you. I learned 90%, a lot, a lot more than the school. I'm even already installing units.
Couple time watcher, first time caller..... Only video I found with the 4 pressure switch Lennox. I have been messing with furnace for two winters. After watching your video and reading the whole manual as you mentions, I might have found my problem. The red silicon hose is not tight on the fire box. Put a little zip tie on both ends (box and pressure switch) and the furnace has been problem free for two weeks. Will replace all hoses soon. A BIG THANK YOU!!! 👍 Keep up the great videos!
Dr. Branaman, thank you for the total anatomy of the high efficient furnace. This is the best detailed description. I am glad that I ran into this site. Now I feel confident to take my furnace apart and assemble it back.
I have taken many classes on HVAC and this one does the best to explain 90+% furnaces. And the Art work is a huge plus BTW
Thank you!
Hey dude! I'm not an hvac tech but over the years have watched your course a few times and I just wanna say thank you and let you know it has been useful in my professional career
I wish my HVAC installer would have watched this video. It took 7 years for them to install it correctly without exhaust leaks, electric issues. I think I'll get licensed to do my own HVAC work from now on.
U are the best.
Life makes sense when we are educated by U
Awesome!!!! That makes day!
I wanted to thank you for taking your time on going about this furnace, it’s an excellent tutorial & very informative.
We just got one installed and I was curious about how they worked, thanks! This was very useful!
Sensational teacher, super thorough video, big thank you
Thank you so much! Highly educational video. I have learned so much from watching your videos. Please keep posting.
TY, you are the best teacher. you make this furnace so easy to understand. Im a full time
hvac tech and you just explained a problem i have with this kind of furnace.....! thank you
I just saw a condenser unit with some wiring on top of it, and I immediately thought of you. I told the owner of the bar where it's located, and he said he will look into it.👍
thank you, this is the best explanation i have found please keep them coming.
Ty, another Awesome video. It’s comforting to know that there are great teachers like you, who have a formal education in their subject, knowledge, experience , and teaching ability and are totally committed to actually teaching the students.
I can learn more from one of your videos than from an entire semester at my lame school, Ivy Tech in Richmond indiana.
If your school is offering courses online, count me in--I’m coming!!!
Plus:
Some schools are just in it for the moneyJust a little history on my old school, IvyTech in Richmond Indiana, that just recently made a guy an electrical instructor, who had no formal electrical education. He had a PhD in some off the wall subject, which impressed the hiring people, so he got a teaching job while being an incompetent. It shouldn’t have surprised my that much, because they also hire some bitter old crones in the nursing program that are totally incompetent to teach anything; I learned that first hand.
First, thank you!
Second, I am a bit bitter with the for profit schools myself. Maximize profits and water down the education.
From my experience across the country, the for profit schools, want the loan money! I have known a lot of good instructors that left the education side because of it.
Late to this one but another great video. In tomorrow’s class we start learning about different gas fired appliances, high efficiency furnaces included. Read the chapter then came right to this video!
Thank you so much this video helped me a lot to understanding gas furnace and im still hvac student
Really worth it the time on 👀this video, 👌excellent, thanks teacher you really go beyond on your teaching 😀.
I think the vacuum/pressure switch is actually a differential pressure switch which measures pressure at two different points in the flue path and subtracts one pressure from the other. This result can then be used to determine air flow in the flue. If the differential pressure is 0, then there is no flow, thus the motor is not turning or the flue/supply is obstructed. By the way the video was very educational. I really liked the tip of removing the blower motor and inspecting the bottom of the heat exchanger for dirt. Thanks.
Absolutely correct, I should have included that.
Thank you, I'm glad you like it!
Very informative please keep making more videos for the air fairies
Great videos hands down God bless you, thanks for this vid
you have tha best best hvac videos
I appreciate the comment but there are much better videos out there. Just doing my part to share the knowledge. Never stop learning!
you have a very professional studio setup............
Love this guy great teacher
Great video. Thanks!
I’m having trouble keeping up recently with all the quality content posts. This means less free time this week. Must finish every video!
Thank you, learned so much!
Ty you're a good man. God bless you.
Amazing video thank you!
Excellent! Thanks Ty!
THANK YOU. GOD BLESS YOU.
Great video! Thank you.
Thanks for watching!
Thanks a lost for explaining everything
Thank you
when he took out the heat exchanger i said, "this man has already gone crazy".
😂 for sure I am crazy! 😂
great job explaing. QUESTION- Cañ a rebuild kit be purchased for this 90 percent furnañce. I wouldn't even start to do maintenance on this unit unless I had all gaskete. thank you TY
My old 80% Janitrol furnace uses a similar diaphragm pressure switch to sense the negative pressure in the inducer like millions of other furnaces do, although it only has 1 of them instead of 4. That black rubber vacuum hose to the diaphragm cracked from aging and caused a leak that caused the furnace to not start. The crack was right at the nipple on the inducer housing and there was some slack in the hose so I was able to cut the cracked end of the hose off for a quick repair. Then later I got some automotive silicone vacuum hose of the same ID and replaced the entire length of hose. The silicone hose does not crack with aging and will last indefinitely. If I had a furnace with 4 of those vacuum hoses I would upgrade them all to silicone right away.
Its true the Silicone is less likely to crack. I also replaced all the vacuum hoses on my truck with silicone for the same reason.
This particular furnace uses really thick hoses and they are even square on the outside. the square allows for the cracks to be visible during servicing so they can be replaced before they fail.
@@love2hvac My Janitrol 80% is a lower end unit and the hose they used was the basic round rubber stuff that will likely fail inside of 10 years. Now if an expensive high efficiency unit is going to have upgraded square hose to make cracks visible, it would make more sense to me to just use silicone hose that probably will never crack at all. But I also understand that corporate accounting often doesn't use that type of logic and the better square rubber stuff is probably still cheaper than silicone.
The way those hoses are situated in the unit and there are 4 of them, I would say it isn't practical to regularly inspect every inch of them and proactively find a crack that is just beginning, before it causes a breakdown. It's more likely the square profile will only make it easier to find which of the 4 hoses are cracked once you actually have a breakdown and you are actually pulling hoses out for inspection to troubleshoot it. So the proactive course of action would be to upgrade to the hose that won't crack in the first place. Same as in your truck, because realistically you probably aren't going over all the vacuum hoses in the truck until after you have a breakdown.
Planed obsolescence in manufacturing and corporate America. If it doesn't break how can they get you to buy a new one 😂
Awesome 🤩
A lot of things to go wrong with these new furnaces, the older ones were much simpler and lasted very long. Some of these components last average of 5 years, like the hot sensor ignitor. My 25 yr old furnace still going strong. :) Only changed a thermistor. The piezo ignitor lasting whole time so far. It's the cost of increasing efficiency. Sensors, switches, solenoids prone to go bad. I guess what you save in heating bills, you can use for repairs.
I started on the old furnaces. We replaced thermocouples more than people replace hot surface ignitors. We replaced pilot assemblys, leaking pilot tubes, gas valves, limit switches and the natoriouse fan limit switches on a daily basis.
As time moves forward changes happen. You can spend all your time fighting the change or you can adapt to it.
The issues with the old furnaces is the heat exchanger wears out, cracks and leaks. They where never made to last for ever. Natural draft furnaces where also natoriouse for back drafting and pushing carbon monoxide into the home in windy days. These are some of the solutions with technology.
The advancement in the automotive industry far outpaced the HVAC industry. Lots of people where against computers, and fuel injection but here where are moving forward without missing a beat.
We use to have phones connected to the wall that lasted forever, now people replace them ever 2 years in average costing neat $1000.
People replace their TV every 2 - 3 years even though there is nothing wrong with the old one.
Nobody is making you replace your old furnace.
I Highly recommend you have a low level CO monitor.
Trying to convince people to not consider a newer, safer, more effencent furnace is not productive.
If it's about simplicity and mastalgia just go to a wood burning stove. Cost lest to operate and last longer.
Love this comment. I am a retired automotive engineer and read comments from people nowadays critical of modern fuel injected engines and somehow incorrectly believed the older vehicles with carburetors were somehow better. I was a mechanic in the 70s and trust me cars ran poorly and broke down very frequently. New models run extremely well, have great drive ability in very extreme weather, not the case with prior tech.
So I am half way thru this video and yout enthusiasm really shows.
I had a pile of twigs in my pvc concentric vent exhaust that I discovered as I was doing preventative maintainable getting ready for winter use of my furnace. Since there are differential pressure switches monitoring the system, if furnace runs and doesn't set trouble codes is it safe to assume piping is clear of debris or do I need to check something else.
Thanks again for posting this video.
Lennox really should thinks about redesign the open panels. When equipment becomes old it’s difficult to put them back into right position to keep the blower side sealed well
Thats true, but I'm a fan of blue taping all the panels especially when in the attic. I learned that with high efficiency homes and blower door testing.
How about the Lennox wave heat echanger and the famouse pulse furnace for a failure! Haha if I can find one I will make a video of that.
@@love2hvac Cool, that will be nice. I used to have a customer who opened the panels by himself, but didn't put the panel back into correct position due to the shape of the whole unit slight changed (placed horizontal). The blower motor pulls air from the gas side into the return side. You can smell gas in the whole house. The two panels needs to be pushed tight to each other to have them at correct position. If one panel has problem the other wouldn't stay there tightly, which is a bad design.
Excellent explanation. Can those composite inducer fans be repaired by replacing the $3 bearing vs spending $400 for a new one? Usually that's was causes the noise?
It's usually a sleeve bearing, not a roller so there is not much you can do with it. I would replace it then see if you could rebuild the old one for a backup. I like when motors had oil ports. Manufacturers build them to sell the whole assembly.
I have replaced many 80% metal assemblies and also just the motors.
I have only had to replace a fuew composite assemblies from a 90+ and they were from improper drainage and water building up in the secondary.
Question on the collector box. I have a system I maintain that has a metal collector box that is starting to rust right where the drain tubing port is. There have been issues with the condensate drain system in the past. Does that condition automatically put the secondary heat exchanger into a suspected condition?
Speaking of high efficiency furnaces, did you ever work on the Lennox Pulse? My employer has a site with one of those. No inducer fan that I could see so being the curious person I am I looked it up, fascinating system --- 90+ efficiency 30 years ago.
System still works, well, no complaints, but most certainty needs to be replaced soon.
Thanks for the video. To date I have not found anyone who took the time to dismantle a system completely.
Thank you.
Rust does not mean there is a problem but it does warrant further inspection. The secondary heat exhanger has more connections and more points to leak but it's stainless steel so it should not rust. The primary is usually not stainless and is not suppose to condensate. It needs to be checked for rust. If rust and a combustion analysis performed.
I was one of the few people that liked those old lennox pulse furnaces. I had the special tool to pull the spark plug, although if they system was running right they where never dirty. It used little explosions or puffs. That's what pushed the gas out without an inducer. There was a flapper valve behind the bolts and steel plate pannel in the front. That was always the issue. It allowed for the combustion air to be pulled in and when the gas ignited it was forced closed and the exaust had to go out the other way. It was pretty cool but very heavy.
The big issue is the secondary heat echanger is notorious for leaking. Many where recalled because of that. I would inspect it thoroughly and make sure the customer had a few low level CO monitors. (Do not rely on alarms)
on the black drain box I wonder why the drain PVC pipe is on the top and not the bottom ?
Do you prefer the furnaces with secondary heat exchangers? I hear others saying they are trouble and that they demand more looking after.
Thanks for sharing! Its awesome to see one disected!
The biggest issue is improper installation. If they are installed correctly they will operate just the same. With the skilled training shortage there is a lack of people to properly install them. Some larger companies want people to install them fast, and others want to install them the same way that they did 40 years. Those people train the new people and the problem continues.
Every single time I had a company or customer with a problem furnace it was because of improper installation. They don't even read the installation manual.
#2 cost of repair.
The very lack of training for installation also leads to lack of training for service and repair. If you hire a person who only worked on car carburetor engines to repair a file injection, the results will not be good. Excess time, trying parts, and frustration will be the result.
A 90% has the same components but with a plastic flue, plastic inducer, a drain, a secondary heat exchanger and a second pressure switch. Everything else operates the same.
Single stage 80% and single stage condensing 90+ very similar.
2 stage 80% vs 2 stage 90+ condensing, very similar.
The big issue is Modulating 90+ condensing furnaces. These have much more expensive parts and they are much more difficult to properly diagnose. There is a big difference between a single stage 80% and a modulating 90+ condensing furnace.
Are they more prone to failure?
If they are installed correctly, no!
If they areinstalled incorrectly, yes!
Do they cost more to repair?
Properly trained techs with single or 2 stage 90+ furnaces no.
By Improperly trained techs, yes.
Modulating 90+ furnaces yes.
Hopelfully that helps
@@love2hvac
That helps a lot man! Thanks!
I would like to be an installer and a traveling tech but am getting a bit old to be running ducts in tight crawl spaces.
My old 88 furnace I can draw a schematic of it by memory now. I did thoroughly inspect the heat exchanger yesterday and clean the coii put in a new pilot sensor but the igniter box is bad so still feeding the wood stove. The heat exchanger is still rock solid, no flexing and no cracks
Someone has wired ithe fan wrong in the past,. As soon as the furnace comes on the hi ac fan comes on immediately on pin 2 of the 90-370. Then when the thermostat is satisfied 24v is killed to the 90-370 relay and then the honeywell fan limit switch becomes active on pin 5 normally closed to run the medium fan until the furnace cools down and the fan limit shuts off the blower.
The scary part is the heat limiter has not been active for no telling how many years while the furnace is burning. On this furnace that leaves just one measure of over heat protection... the thermal switch on the fan.
I have just days ago caught this by watching fan limit videos and how they work.
with it being a 'two stage" does it use two amp requirements? say. low-4 amps high- 7 amps?
Looks similar to my American Standard furnace. They all share similar parts.
Thank you so much. Muchas gracias
last summer I was checking the furance out and the burner inspection window was full of leaves, removed it and vaccumed all the leaves out, seems no one around me has any grillls over there PVC intake tubes
Please don't put grills over the intake or exhaust. It's will cause freezups in the winter. You can put a run down pipe on the intake though or even a tee that will prevent that. Always check the installation manual for what that model required.
A leaf blower works well to blow the debris back out.
I think that black tube on dual pressure switch is under a negative pressure just like the red hose. I think that way the switch is seeing the P differential ???
Yes that is correct!
Hey ty, what are the two limit switches on the blower housing? I've always wondered this, rite at the end of your video
Called auxillary limits, required for downtown and counterflow but nice to have in upflow. Multi positional furnaces usually have them.
If the primary limit fails these will trip. They are at a lower trip (open) point that the primary limit.
@@love2hvac thank you
Very interesting. As some said below , these HE furnaces are great when they work but repairs are excessively costly. I understand that the US Government is going to require the phase out of the 80 percent furnaces and these will be the only option , all in the name of efficiency. Nobody, however, figures the cost , resources and energy to build replacements on an increased frequency.On average per all these "experts" you will own 3 to 4 HE furnaces versus 2 of the 80 percent types on average life cycles. In my case, the the ECM module failed after 5 years with no reason apparent. The labor cost to replace it ( part covered under 5 tear warranty) more than ate up any energy savings to that point. So , assuming the HE option is mandatory, they should make the manufacturers provide minimum 20 year heat exchanger warranties and 10 years on the parts.
Please see the latest video where I address these concerns and more.
@@love2hvac Yes, I found and watched that. ( I do enjoy your videos). Technologically, when you were still in diapers, I purchased one of the very first Lennox Pulse Furnaces. I replaced a 12 year old 60 percent-er NG furnace with a ( as advertised) 95 percent-er. It had its issues , noise, and some breakdowns, but I felt I got my money's worth because the increase in efficiency was that great. Lennox , with some Government prodding , agreed to replace premature HE failures with a new HE or new 92 percent-er condensing furnace. We opted for the latter and I could see from casual inspection that the quality of the parts within had decreased, but in the name of good citizenry.... I am not in the business but grew up working with my building contractor father and learned a lot about the trades hands on. What I have observed over 45 years, owning two houses, that HVAC techs, are like the wind. They come and go and I have never seen the same people twice. Their knowledge and skills ( and attitude) are all over the map. My latest service supplier ( rated number 1 in all local polls) is great about showing up ,but with no parts and only basic tools ( no manometer, no combustion sensors , etc). A few weeks ago ,my two stage "Elite" furnace ( brand rhymes with a tool you use to smooth a cut pipe end) would not turn on. The board said error code 45. I looked it up in the manual ( I can read and can follow a circuit diagram) . Six things to check. I checked 1-5 and no issue. Number six was the inducer switches. I dragged out my VOM and watched a YT video on how to check them. Did so and, voila, the low pressure switch was not closing. Since I didn't (then) stock parts in my house, I called my " red carpet" installer/service supplier to come and fix it ( informing the dispatcher in advance of my furnace model and part needed). The guy shows up- repeats most all I did and tells me I had it correct. No parts on the truck ,though, ,of course. Next day , maybe, and $342 plus 8% tax ( the tech said the markup for the parts was 300 percent, plus travel, etc.) , in addition to this 200 dollar service "call". I said no thanks. Ordered both OEM ( yes OEM) switches in duplicate and had them noon next day for $60 bucks ( with shipping). Seven minutes to replace both. If you read the news a lot you will note that most people in this country do NOT have 500 bucks for an emergency. I can afford the $342 easily but what about those that can't ? I can tell you about my "professionally" installed (expensive) BW Water heater that they insisted that a condensate drain was need for the PVC flue., etc. etc. I can tell you about ten other stupid and costly ( to me) things that were done over the past 40 years by these techs. Anyway, a serious question for you. I asked the tech to check my outlet gas pressure in the furnace ( trying to get my 200 bucks worth) . Advised ( after my loaded request) they don't have manometers, but he "thought' ok because "factory set". That MAY be true, but is it possibly affected by my having a gas fireplace (thank God we had that to keep us warm overnight) installed, in addition to my gas water heater. That is, if they all fire at the same time would the pressure be ( adversely/significantly) affected ???
@@love2hvac As a yesterday update, my neighbor next door passed away suddenly a few months ago. His brother , checking on the house, noted a leak on the top of the (relatively new ) water heater and asked if I could take a look. Upon observation , I noted the leak was between the heat nipple and cold water copper supply . I said it was probably caused by the “professional” installer soldering the adapter fitting after attaching it to the nipple or not being careful with the Teflon wrap. So I cut the pipe ,replaced the nipple with proper threading and rejoined the supply and all is well. I also noted that the professional installer ( local established firm ) did NOT hook up the condensate drain from the draft inducer blower and that some water had backed into the fan (similar to what happened to me for my professionally installed BW). A 2 dollar piece of tubing to the Little Giant and all is well there. My point is what does a”normal” consumer have a right to expect . Do we have to read all the instructions ourselves and stand over them as they work?
I don't have an answer or solution for that.
Shoddy work absolutely ticks me off.
Right now companies are focused more on sales and marketing rather than skills and training.
Inspectors are over worked and underpaid, they only look for some code prices and not a quality install.
The BBB sold out to advertising.
It's a problem without a solution.
Other than changing the filter, what maintenance would prevent the secondary exchanger from clogging up? I use washable synthetic fibre filters and have had no issues in ~18 years.
Filtration is the most important thing. You must keep a very clean house, the washable filters are typically the dirty units with the exception of the Paul Harvey allure pure filter that blocked so much airflow. It lasted this long so I would not change now. When the time comes to replace look at a 4 to 6" media filter.
Other maintananace is clearing the drains, flue and intake pipes. Cleaning the flame sensor are the big ones.
Our furnace doesn't run that much. Well insulated with a setpoint of 64F in a Seattle type climate. Got me worried now lol. I think I better inspect the 2nd HX. Would a inspection from the bottom be sufficient? I only have room for a 1" filter.
Thanks for the tips!
What kind of adjustable nut driver you are using ? I'm talking about the toll used in this video at 11:04:00 .
2-in-1 Hex Head Slide Drive Magnetic Nut Driver 6"
SKU: 65129
Unique, patented tip switches from 1/4-Inch size to 5/16-Inch size
Magnetic regardless of which driver is selected
Twist the thumb nut to lock tip setting
Where can I sign up for your classes?
Thanks, Bill
I left my last school in November. I'm currently not with a school.
Hi Ty! With These new 90 percenter furnaces it looks like it does away with the old smoke pipe like on oil furnaces? When I clean the old oil furnaces I have to clean the smoke.pipe and chimney. Do you have to clean the pvc exhaust pipe some how? Or is the soot none existing since its a condensing unit.
I have not had the pleasure to work with a condensing oil furnace. I would think with proper combustion analysis and operation it would not be necessary on the condensing oil furnace.
I know on the standard oil furnaces I had to clean the flue when it wasn't burning right. This was misaligned electrodes, swirl plate improperly set, nozzle dirty worn or improperly sized, or failed ignitions causing the excess fuel build up. The 90% will have more controls to protect against that. The condensation will remove a lot of that alos. I imagine worse case scenario it would be easier to clean. In short I do not have a definite answer.
@@love2hvac thanks for the reply Ty! I was just curious. I am new the gas funace end of the business. We just got some new properties that have them. Thanks again. Super videos.
Also longer run time on low speed continues to filter the air. I have Trane 90% with clean air effects filter. Is that filter worth it ? I don't know if adding electricity is capturing enough dust to make it worthwhile.
I have not had a chance to play with the trane effects filter.
My typical stance is against electronic filters because if ionization and ozone generation. There are some exceptions to that and that filter may be one. If it ionized and then is recollected in the filter, that would be an exception.
@@love2hvac Thanks. Supposed to be a small amount of ozone, but I'm thinking of unplugging it and putting in regular.
90+ Furnace Drains line need like 9” stands when installing horizontally. Because then I don’t have room for slope. Do you do the same?
I usually hang them. Less vibrations to the ceiling and plenty of room for slope.
I like the hungrite system.
@@love2hvac Thank you. That looks pretty cool.
Could you make a video on installer setup options (ISU) advanced menu for thermostats....I know each thermostat is different but I feel like someone like you can make a very good video, explaining all the options for different applications... like
ISU # "218"
ISU name "reversing valve"
ISU options "O/B on cool, or O/B on heat....
Some say most revering valves switch on cool...but how do I know for sure?
It just seems like the ISU is full of information..that is over my head...
Like this guy, only through your level of knowledge
ruclips.net/video/VCgutItYRNw/видео.html
Thanks Rick.
I need to film the electrical portion, the heat pump portion then I will do thermostat installer setup video examples, vocabulary and why's.
I live in brenham texas. What is the correct Spud to use for my LPG furnace.
Varies by manufacture.
Find the model number of the furnace. The search for the LP conversion kit for that furnace. It will include detailed instructions, the spuds/offices the spring for the gas valve, the diffusers for the burners.
After that is installed variety gas pressure input and put put and perform a combustion anylaysis.
Anyone working on LP appliances in Texas must have a certificate from the Texas Railroad Commission.
Ty or anyone else..one question. I was under the assumption that combination gas valve had the pilot and pilot thermocouple built in however on on new furnases this is done by the furnace control board. In this video he refers to the gas valve as combination gas valve... What makes it a combination gas valve is my question. Go easy on me I am learning too
Great question
Combination gas valve means it's a combination of a pressure regulator and solinoid valve.
In the old old days those components where separate.
There are many types of combination gas valves be it standing pilot, intermittent pilot, redundant or smart valves.
Thinking of it as a combination of those 2 is important in diagnosing.
Remembering it reduces gas pressure and separately it opens and closest the flow of gas helps remember to check each function.
@@love2hvac thank you so much. You are the best teacher I have seen
I have a question, what does the per-cycle on a 90% furnace do?
checks the pressure switches and clears the heat exchanger. I'd there where any files left over, contaminants, left over combustion it clears it out.
@@love2hvac thanks a lot, I’m getting My journeyman license. It’s a question on the test
@@raymondcoleman6140 oh how exiting!! Lete know when you pass. Looking for little pieces of information will lead you to learn lots other things. Tests always make me nervous so if I can do it, you can do it.
Can this furnace be converted to LP?
Yes, it will need a factory conversion kit.
Interesting...:-)
How do you know how much BTU's to subtract? When you say 66K btu's and the house gets 61k btu's.
Thats a great question
On the data tag of the old furnace find the _____Input BTU/hr and the _______ % AFUE efficiency
_______ input BTU x _______% = __________Output BTU for the house
example
100,000 BTU input x 60% AFUE= 60,000 output BTU for the house
That original furnace output is important , lets say I want to replace it
The old furnace heated the home well without short cycling so the 60,000 is okay
( heat load calculation would be better)
Now lets look at a new furnace.
If I bought a 100,000 BTU furnace that was 98% AFUE the output would be 98,000 way too big!
but if I bought a 62,000 BUT input x 98% AFUE= 60,000 BTU outpout the same as the old one.
Hopefully that helps
@@love2hvac I did the math on that last part. Checks out more or less but still 60k.
that helps thank you!!!
When the new courses start
Only digital classes from me for a while.
Excellent continent after watching your video and if they follow your instructions and read the manual there should be no reason why 90% of all the 98% furnaces get installed wrong and you’re lucky if you can get 80% out of those 98% install furnaces
I’ve installed 80%, 90%+ single-stage, two-stage and modulating furnaces for 44 years. Many on LP, which they are not designed to run on. I will never push anything more than the simple 90-92% single-stages anymore. If you run on LP or want higher than that, save your money because you’ll need it for preventative maintenance and repairs. I had an igniter fail after two months on an NGK~ all manufactured in Saltillo, Mexico. I had a heat exchanger collector box rust out after 9 years and Goodman stopped manufacturing repair parts. Nothing but over-complicated, over-priced junk and poor customer service anymore.
I didn't think you were going to get to the shipping bolt. You did though. Someone moved the sticker right in front of you, were it belongs.
Its amazing how many I see with the shipping bolt still there years later.
Theres more videos about this after the hour long video?? Jeez..
Yep and 4 more after this one
Still not even as close to being as efficient as the venerable Lennox Pulse. Sure wish Lennox would come back out with it.
Volume too low barely can hear you.
the actual combustion efficiency is no more than 90%...beyond that is an educated guess based on a lot of potential variables outside of a lab environment. That is also how you can tell if your combustion analyzer is "true" or if it is coloring the measurements beyond 90 (marketing world). This is also why the secondary/condensing heat exchanger in the Payne PG9 92%, for example, is the exact same secondary as the Carrier MVP/MVB 96% modulating furnace. See what I am saying? Same primary, same secondary..., I will say it again: same primary and same secondary. The actual actual combustion efficiency is 90% or slightly less in all condensing gas furnaces. This marketeer shitshine world we have created says one is 92% and the other is 96% haha. These examples are not exclusive to Carrier/Bryant/Payne.
Then add to that, these highly refined energy efficient devices become energy hogs when oversized and/or improperly installed/maintained. A 2-stage furnace efficiency is measured in high fire (2nd stage), with a very steep drop off in efficiency while operating in 1st stage (think about it...what changes? not the cell size, the flame size changes with a static cell size... = way different thermal transfer dynamic. Now consider also the variable speed fan in the "more efficient" models, which actually uses more energy to overcome restriction when: filter dirties, or if the furnace is oversized and/or if the ducting is not large enough for the variable speed fan to operate within it's design range static pressure. People think they are going to get lower energy bills, but most times they get an oversized 2-stage furnace which costs them more to run that if they had just gotten a 92% with a PSC or ECM multispeed (non-variable) fan. But don't even get me started on "variable speed" and how it is maybe the biggest marketing misnomer I have noticed in this industry.
Pluss the Private Equate companies taking over HVAC, focused on selling oversized equipment with undersized ductwork.
"Required".
Required by whom?
Are these ultra-complicated and expensive machines cost effective over their total life????
Or is this another expensive, pointless dictate from bureaucratic petty tyrants making life more difficult for everyone?
(All I hear about these are those paper-thin heat exchangers rusting through, fans not working, cramped working conditions, more problems with water condensate damage and EXPENSIVE EXPENSIVE EXPENSIVE REPAIRS!!!)
PS: am big fan of your channel, but have total disgust for the hideous things government has done to this industry.
"I wish the regulations made as much sense as your fine videos."
I'm against the over regulations myself. It's a bit crazy to say you can sell the product here but not there.
I have found the biggest issues with this equipment is installation. Improper airflow, over firing under firing the furnace, lacking combustion analys. Notoriously people are not piping the combustion air from outside. This pulls from the house creating negative pressure and pulls in more chemicals that kills the heat echanger. That secondary is stainless steel and if the drain is actually done correctly there is not an issue. For foamed houses it is the best gas heating solution.
Birds in the flue are the one unsolved issue.
It's the modulating furnaces I see the most issues with. That is one example of repairs exceeding benefits and initial cost.
Either way they are here so we have to learn and adapt.
It will be interesting to see is gas will even be allowed in new homes in the next 15 years
@@love2hvac
Thank you, Ty.
Duly noted.
I'm still on the low end of the 90% learning curve (your videos the best on this) - have to learn to think of the house as a bit of a space capsule.
I thought RSES was a place to go to discuss how deformed the HVAC business is b/c of the regs. I can't stand it. There must be a way to push back on this.
[Dictating "efficiency" is such a stupid premise - "duhhh, who doesn't want efficiency?" But that stupid EPA has made a fetish out of it. And natural gas is so dirt cheap they have to flare it off (!).
Maybe that's why it's called the "Montreal Protocol" -- have it in a place where people don't worry too much about air conditioning.
Natural gas banned for home heating? Yes, we are fast approaching that level of stupidity. Thanks for the warning. You're reminding me I'm an old man who is sickened by a future like that.]
[ Have to do homework on what "modulating" furnaces are. "Two-stage" sounds like a winner for comfort/selling purposes - nothing to do with that stupid EPA. The customer should have the option. And the outside-to-outside combustion air is like "of course, why didn't I think if that?" -- but those are things you can sell the consumer; don't have to be rammed down their throats by the disgusting EPA. And we've gotten along fine without houses being built with the atmospherics if an airplane.
I almost cry when I watch those videos that go something like, "Today we're checking in on an R12 system that's worked flawlessly since the '70s..."
It's the state of America in microcosm.]
.
Yep,
They keep passing laws making the unit more energy efficient but allow the new houses to be built like a colander.
In Vegas, and Phonix the hottest climates in the country they are putting units in the attic (not foamed) with the little trapdoor offset over a shelf in a closet.
Only 1 person benefits from that, the builder.
If we ever needed a regulation would be new houses are not allowed to have units in unconditional attics and must require pulldown ladder!!!
@@love2hvac
"Old Man Syndrome" here again. I'm thinking "If I get into this business, I'm just not going to do attics and crawl spaces - sorry, get a younger guy to suffer that."
Speaking of crawl spaces, Anti DIY had one where the homeowner stored a casket down there. That even set Mr. Anti DIY back - "now I've seen everything".
🤣
The homeowner would faint if he found his furnace in all those pieces.
Next time I want to see you do that in a hot attic.😂🍺🍺🍺🥃🥃🍇🏌
Stay safe.
Retired(werk'n) keyboard super tech.
Wear your safety glasses.
I had to return that furnace to the company that lent it to me. Did you know Lennox used so many different screws? It finally got back together, I think....
@@love2hvac 🤣
Lennox is proprietary!(very)
🥃🍺
Thank you, I have learned more with you than the school with you. I learned 90%, a lot, a lot more than the school. I'm even already installing units.
Thank you
Thank you