It is a privilege to have access to you without having to be enrolled into any of your classes. This is one thing that only RUclips can deliver, and for that I'm grateful for RUclips.
Why is it a privilege? He wants to spread his works and is choosing social media as a means. This can be called smart since books and papers are expensive despite the industrial mass production of academic papers, since first the US and then the Bologna process has commodified academia. Some people like Moeller and Nick Zentner may have as love for their discipline, which is reason enough.
@@EliasHansenu7f Maybe in the sense that people today are priviliged in the way that a 12 year of African kid now has access to more information (and the ideas of people like Chomsky or Moeller) than Bill Clinton had as president in the 90s
@@thecritiquer9407 The end of a work. You could see the 3 videos: "Cringe philosophy", "based philosophy" and "beyond based and cringe" as a trilogy, where "beyond based and cringe" is the epilogue
was about to write this!! kinda engagement-baity cringe haha but it worked for me. also this video made me think about meta-irony, i would love to see a deep dive into meta-irony from the framework of profilicity
Hyper-irony was predicted to be a feature of the end of the age of authenticity by one of the social philosophers referenced in his content and works on Profilicity. Also: perfect ending
@@Fordtheriver i've checked the book you and your profile but couldn't seem to find the reference, do you remember who was that philosopher or where this was referenced by any chance? would love to read more on that
I kinda disagree. If there's some obvious physical mishap, I don't think it's that cringey. It's more cringey when there is some sort of social misunderstanding.@@parsafakhar
I dub this, meta-cringe, like meta-irony you must know the person to actually figure out whether they think something is cringe, or not, or whether they are unsure themselves
@@tessieofwinters 'Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting' - Alan Dean Foster. 'Absolute freedom is no better than chaos' - Adam Jensen. 'True Cringe is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural' - Cringe Palpatine.
I was amazed by looking at the channel of the Vietnamese woman Uyen Ninh showing with the short «How I changed since I lived in Germany» the concept of identity is looking from her standpoint as an adaptation to fit into a society, making the constructed identity falling apart by living in another country. Identity as such has a function not for the person itself but for the relationship to other humans in society. Thus identity is a political category. The whole concept of Profilicity is dependent on the definition of identity in the American sense as part of a modern citoyen with a blind affirmation of a modern society with its atomized humans. It's no surprise the author is declaring democracy in the act of observing an artist in his book about Profilicity . This part of Philosophy is naturalizing concepts of society and is so becoming totalitarian. A remark about cringe. The meaning of the terms like cringe, Karen and facepalm is floating all the time. From a linguistic point of view a language is changing continuously. The masses of cognates in languages are showing the idea of a static language even over a short time span doesn't exists. And yet philosophy insists on the concept of a static language which is a dismissal of human creativity.
Here in Australia, the term "cultural cringe" was coined in the 50s to describe the sense of inferiority and shame in our cultural and intellectual products, and our inferiority culture compared to Europe. Its funny to think of an entire nation's creatives considering themselves to be collectively cringey
@@lloydmorcom9789 it takes a different form now, now our cultural cringe is more young people who don't want to be associated with aspects of Australian culture that they consider conservative or reactionary, rather than considering themselves inferior to the British (most Australians now have a healthy sense of Anglophobia)
You've just reminded me that the same concept exists in Scotland. The Scottish Cringe was mainly associated with people who adapted their accents and behaviours to seem more acceptable to the larger English population, mainly to be able to fit in with the business/media/political world. It viewed Scottishness as parochial and fundamentally unserious, and to make it, you had to rid yourself of your upbringing, dialect and behaviours. Notably, Australia has "Tall Poppy Syndrome", which is something else Scotland shares, as I grew up hearing about it, in relation to Scottish celebrities, mainly, but it's exactly the same usage. Their is less emphasis on Scottish Cringe now, but it still exists. (Alec Salmond has always made me cringe, in reflection of how parochial and unstatesman like I've always found him, but others mileage may vary.) I don't know how far back this goes, but Scottish Cringe was certainly very prevalent in the 80's/90's, and is worse the further back you go.
In Brazilian Portuguese we have used “vergonha alheia”, literally “someone else’s shame” for as long as I can remember and seemingly before I was born in 1990. It’s an old idea.
it's a very strong cultural concept in Spain, Italy, Portugal as well - perhaps precisely because they are not shame cultures like the Central and Northern Europeans, but guilt cultures
@@jakeb.2990Northern and Central Europeans are generally understood to have much stronger guilt based cultures than countries like Spain, Italy and Portugal. Guilt culture correlates strongly with protestantism.
Same exact concepts as in spain; "vergüenza ajena". The ajena cames from the "aliēnus" in latin. Now I wonder if in Italian they too have the same exact words as well.
Connecting "cringe" to "profilicity" seems quite insightful. As emotional reactions, shame, guilt, and cringe must all involve some sort of interoceptive response. It would be interesting to untangle varieties of the latter...
What most surprised me in his analysis, is that now with profilicity, shame and guilt are removed and give way to cringe as a clear sign of our post-authentic era. We don't feel anymore(authentically), we only feel in a way one does when he is being seen.
@@triggeringsmuganimepfp7611ur comment reminds me of something an older woman friend said to me when i was in my 20's, about women's magazines. The example she gave was a book review where alongside the review u get a photo of a woman looking picturesque as she reads her book. My friend made the comment 'a man just reads the book, a woman has to also look good while reading the book'. 'Ways of seeing' by john berger was a book recommened at art college in the 90's making the same kind of points. It's like the entire culture has shifted into this self-conscious way of being
in Spanish-speaking countries we have "vergüenza ajena". Wikipedia's article on 'Vicarious embarrassment' puts it as synonym with 'Fremdschämen' and also with "Spanish shame". Perhaps the popularization of 'cringe' has something to do with the 'latinization' of global culture (just like with reggaeton-trap music)?
In the era of sincerity, "shameless" was considered an insult; under authenticity, "remorseless" is an insult. I wonder if under profilicity, "cringeless" will become an insult. Because I consider myself completely cringeless. 😂
Being cringe-aware perfectly fits into modern capitalism. You bet/invest on certain highly volatile "identity features" to rise and fall in public perception as you bet on the rise and fall of companies on the stock market.
This reminds me of seroius conversations on kitsch I ran across long ago - a certain pride and finding beauty in the predictable and items appealing to nostalgia rather than a creative purpose - a kind of anti-art. Cringe is broad, but essentially a kind of anti-real, a loop.of the authentic and inauthentic, people doing things either conscoously or unconsciously that dont fit the observers world and to be called out as such, worst case being well-worn boomer notions presented as overwhelmingly important to a generation that doesnt care, or a person who does something intrinsically stupid or predictable while presenting it as original and interesting. As often as not, someone trying to sell themselves and their ideas too hard.
Great video as always. I recently had a situation similar to the one pewdiepie and his wife had, where something that was actually rather "cool" for me, was absolutely "cringe" for my friend. And to answer your question: The only thing that was cringeworthy was the question itself - as I don't think that you actually "care" about what or if you were cringe. Much like the actors in the "taking responsibility" video, the lack of authenthicity made this moment cringe. (Or at least that's what I'm thinking)
Yes - I have just posted about that last moment too… I guess what makes it cringy is the little extra emotional intensity as in “I want to fake it so obviously that none of you will wonder if I care” - which naturally makes me wonder….
I was taught that shame is related to what I am, guilt to what I did (behaviour). For example, when telling a kid “you’re bad”, he believes that’s just the way he is. If I instead say “what you did is bad”, then there’s the opportunity to act differently next time since the behaviour was wrong, not him in essence. Guilt allows one to act differently, while shame makes it easy to believe there’s nothing I can do since that’s the way I am.
Great video as always! I have recently started a RUclips channel myself, and its fascinating to experience it from the inside. I imagine many of your insights on prolificity comes from that experience. For instance, I notice that I value praise from random people more than from my friends. This is of course I see them as more objective and doesn't feel obliged to give me praise. Also, the amount of statistics youtube gives for each video, with live updating viewer numbers etc is quite stressful and I notice my mood follows the views-graph which obviously isnt good.
Regarding Jordan Peterson, I think it is great that you mention him. Even though he is Canadian, I'd agree that he represents the standard moral philosophy of the USA and actually the entire English-speaking world quite well. And indeed, his opinions is quite similar in the USA, Canada, and anywhere else in the English-speaking world, with just tiny variations. In addition, the difference between most conservatives and liberals in the Anglophone world is not so great when you understand the full-range of moral thought; the differences are usually related to political wedge issues that conservatives hold mainly because they are grudges, the phenomenon of some people flat-out "liking" religious life, people taking oppositional stances to other ethnic/regional groups due to deep grudges from the past, etc. The difference in outcome of the USA vs. other Anglophone countries is not the moral framework. That's why JBP can be so popular to American audiences. Likely the difference has more to do with various events of enormous social turmoil in the USA, since the enormous turmoil in the history of the USA created a society at-war with itself, which is a rather unique situation (maybe only the Russian world has a similar situation), and it creates a feedback loop of distrust and un-cooperation that leads to a lot of major social/legal/cultural differences when compared to countries with less turmoil and more unity in their history.
It is fascinating and a privilege to have someone explaining the modern world through the lens of Luhmann's social systems theory. I am a computer scientist in the field of "AI" and education and I am thinking about what properties "AI" lacks to earn the term "AI". Here autopoiesis seems central and I can not stop thinking about an artificial system i.e. an observing system and how it might look like. Thus I really want to understand how the mind "works". I would really really appreciate if you could talk about Luhmann's text "Erkenntnis als Konstruktion" which currently gives me a lot of headache. Below my current state of struggle: I am reading Luhmann's text "Erkenntnis als Konstruktion" but I find it really hard to understand. He begins with a "naiv" assumption that "systems are real, i.e. they exist". And he replaces the subject-object distinction with the system-environment distinction. I run into troubles when I want to get my head around how the picture in my head is constructed if there is no information transfer from the environment into the system. The environment is basically "the nothing" or that that is not differentiated. So without the observer there is nothing. Luhmann keeps the concept of a resistance to test against (similar to Kant) but its source is no longer the-thing-in-itself but the system itself. But if this is the case, what is the effect of the environment? If both co-evolve (as Maturana says) then it seems to me very much like a resistance. Furthermore, if there is no information transfer how can we even perceive each other. Of course the system is cognitively open and as far as I understand it, this is "realized" via structual coupling. But what exactly is structual couppling if not a sort of transfer of information. If two people interpret the same text differently but perceive the same text (they both can read word by word what is written) but there is no information transfer happening, how can we explain this? Both psychic systems had to be irritated in such a way that both change their structure / configuration in such a way that both can read the text but still make construct a distinct sense out of it? Basically my biggest problem is to understand structual coupling because it reads like an unexplained gap filler for the interaction between the system and its environment which seems to me to be the most important problem. The text is also so hard to read because it feels like reading a cybernetic cycle i.e. there is no solid starting point (like a set of axioms to build the whole theory) but every term / concept is interdependent on some other term / concept.
In Spain we call it "vergüenza ajena" (alien shame or shame of other). I gotta look in why Russia would call it Spanish Shame. Edit or PS: The few quick searches I've done seems to point that this name of "Spanish Shame" its because spaniards seems to be some of the first to create or popularize the idea of "second hand embarrassment" and it spread to other languages. But there barely anything to call a source for this, and its a really specific question so theres almost nothing about it (that you can dond easly), so I would take that theory as not too probable.
To a Subject using Profilicity as there identity technology, any profile that shows signs of attempted Genuine use of Sincerity or Authenticity is likely to cause Cringe for the one using Profilicity, as it seems the other still thinks there profile is their own and not a second order reflection of the general peer.
The word cringeworthy has been around for a long time. I take the word "cringe" in this context as an abbreviation of the former, which appears to have largely fallen from use.
I see the "Three Body Problem" book in the background. Have you read "Dark Forest" and "Death's End"? I'd love to hear a spoiler-filled analysis of the series through a philosophical lens...especially from someone who has expertise in Chinese philosophy.
The german term "Fremdschämen" feels like the academic version of cringe. Was surprised hw didnt mention it when he went to Schadenfreude. Aaaand he did in the end. Now i feel ashamed.
Your videos on media theory and identy technology are second to none. Deep yet easy to understand. Cant tell you how excited i get when a new post of yours shows up. Keep them coming please. On a side note i wonder what your thoughts are on people who are oblivious to cringe, to the point that it becomes an asset. Im thinking of people like tommy wiseau or neil breen. There's a weird dynamic there, where their audience simultaneously would hate to be that unaware, but is also envious of the freedom that lack of awareness would grant.
Great content! Nothing cringeworthy from my perspective. I do believe that by being authentic and rooted in ourselves we can experience other people's emotional reaction to our content as illuminating towards how different we can be as human beings. Your guy/girl video disagreeing about whether the Finnish guy's attempt to do a backflip was cringeworthy was a perfect example of this.
The guilt/shame opposition doesn't only have a Western/Eastern aspect - it also has a Western past vs Western present society aspect: according to some psychotherapists, nowadays depression is mostly of a narcissistic nature (based on the feeling of shame/inadequacy of the Self) while in the past it was more based on the feeling of guilt.
People trying to point out cringe-y videos is cringe. I always felt saying, "comment below," or "don't forget to like and subscribe" is cringe, but I've become somewhat desensitized. I would feel uncomfortable saying that in my own video, without having to be purposefully cringe-y as you pointed out. I feel cringe-y when someone throws my records on when I'm in the room.
hard to believe that I have more to say on top of a 23 minute video. One thing - I think cringe is often a word people use to hide anger. When people are angry at another person's misbehaviors, sometimes they say that they cringe. Some people use "sadness" in the same way. Definitely not always happening with cringe. But I think we have an "anger epidemic" in the USA these days, maybe in the rest of the world, to a lesser extent. And I think that the anger epidemic actually contributes to the cringe epidemic.
In Finnish cringe would translate as myötähäpeä (mitt schade; shared shame). It may be a construct from Swedish medkänsla (compassion) through changing "känsla" (feeling) to shame. Myötähäpeä is a newish concept, probably born to describe cringe exactly.
In spain we call it "Vergüenza Ajena" or, sometimes translated to english as "Third party embarrassment". The "vergüenza" comes from latin, and actually just means modesty. The "ajena" just comes from "aliēnus" that means "from other". Same origin as the english word "alienate" or "alien".
@@Liisa3139 Finland, otherwise known as East Sweden, not to be confused with Norway (West Sweden) or Denmark (South Sweden). By the way, I think the Baltic Sea should be renamed the Swedish Sea.
(i do not speak english very well) I read an article in which fake sneakers were "cringe", because "they were trying and failing to be" original sneakers. Autor wore them for a month as an experiment and his mental state deteriorated greatly. Maybe you'll be interested in that article, because for me it looks like good example of profilicity, article called "How Wearing Fake Sneakers for 30 Days Drove Me Into Deep Depression"
Cringe occurs when an obvious attempt at image (profile) curation fails. It takes place in the gap between the perception the actor is hoping to inspire in the observer, and the actual reaction of the observers. Rife with the possibility of invoking cringe-response are attempts to embrace a moral position without convincing the viewer of your sincerity; also attempts to appear "cool" that betray their derivative nature (imitating a celebrity for example). Any communication that is weighted more heavily towards the image of the protagonist, as opposed to real information exchange that would benefit the viewer/hearer, opens itself to a cringe-response. Simple incongruity can stimulate cringe if the attempt falls below a certain irony value. An attempt to appear worldly-wise or enlightened can collapse into cringe response if you fail to integrate it sufficiently (smoothly) into your profile. Humor that is insufficiently "post-authenticity" will also generate cringe-reflex. Old-world sincerity, latitudinarianism, or implicit moral elevations are also quite vulnerable. Hypocrisy is an age-old pitfall that can easily become cringe (see the "Imagine" lyrics read by wealthy celebrities for a great example). TL; DR: Cringe-response is a reflex provoked by profile curation failure, dependent to some extent on the audience receiving the message; the risk of provoking a cringe-response is higher when performed in front of younger people. Cringe is a product of the hive-mind, a social control measure, and a gatekeeping tool to limit entry into an at least semi-defined sub-culture.
I've seen the clip at 13:35 a few times, not because I wanted to, but because people sometimes use it for reference. Every time I desperately wish it was meant as sarcasm. I guess this explains cringe humour. You are shown some next level cringe, but when it's revealed to be parody, we laugh with the sudden release of tension. Edit: of course Moeller went on to cover that in the video. Does this acknowledgement reduce or increase the cringe of my comment?
all I know is, I’m exhausted with everyone’s seeming obsession with cringe and how quick so many people are to want to call cringe on something. Your video makes a good case for how inescapable it is, so can we all just please move on already? I find it kinda gross how young people are actually training each other on it. 🤷🏻♂️
Every generation has had its own ways of being judgmental. Older generations did it, and future ones will too. It's kinda an inevitable part of social living. What is considered cringe will change, and perhaps even new words for it will be coined. But the social phenomenon itself will never go away.
The fact that the word ‘cringe’ has taken on a colloquial status shouldn’t be taken to mean that it’s at all ‘new’. The idea of being embarrassed *for* someone else, which is essentially what ‘cringe’ has always meant, is not at all new (comedy in the early 00s, such as Curb Your Enthusiasm, The Office, and Peep Show were all examples of cringe-based comedy).
You attended his class in Belgrade? I found out too late that he was coming to Serbia and missed it. Would you say that the professor is as eloquent live as he is in his videos? I really wonder. Greetings from NS
@@soundsofearth3175yes, he absolutely is! Certainly above my expectations. The class was even better because it was interactive of course. Also a cool guy to have a beer with haha. Btw, he should be coming back soon, but I'm not aware if there are any courses or talks planned.
Yes, of course, but as mentioned in the inscription, the idea originated from discussions at the Psychology Department. Please check out the info on the film event at FMK next Thursday (May 23) posted in the community section of this channel. Maybe another opportunity to chat!
@@nothke Yes, of course, but as mentioned in the inscription, the idea originated from discussions at the Psychology Department. Please check out the info on the film event at FMK next Thursday (May 23) posted in the community section of this channel. Maybe another opportunity to chat!
Two comments: 1. What you didn't mention is that cringe at the same time is a community identity-building phenomenon. If a group of people share a profile (as in profilocity), they will cringe at the same thing at the same time. For example - In the social situation in real life, if you have ever been part of a cringe worthy moment, you know how the people who share the same identity will look each other in the eye to confirm they all share this feeling and condemn the person who is the source of cringe. On the a social media plane, for example, it may occur as a meme that is posted on a small Instagram profile that is only viewed by the community that shares that identity (such insta profile usually talks and creates content around their shared profile) . I think the source of this communal aspect is what you said about the ever-changing nature of profiles and identity based on profiles in a profilocity-based society. Cringe is needed to constantly update the boundaries of the profile through opposition. Together we are what we cringe at. 2. This is more of an anecdote, but in one of the social groups of people who are 10-20 years younger than me, let's say 20-20-something, who use cringe and feel cringe a lot, there is a notion of rejecting cringe or even embracing cringe. My observation is that it's because cringe is a form of shaming (an idea in itself, that younger generation rejects) what is cringe for one identity profile is something positive in another identity profile. So, because identity in proficity is an amalgamation of many profiles, too much cringe in a community discourages individuals from expressing themselves through other profiles that are not the profile that binds the community, what are important to the identity of individuals within the community.
I think it's simpler. In cultures we ascribe often to ideals of pride and grace to varying mixes. Where grace is more ideal, guilt reigns as what there is when gratitude is not acted from. Where pride, the sensation of achievement, is held more ideal, shame reigns as what there is when achievement is not earned. In Christian theology, the grace & blessing of God that is not earned is central. In theology where doing things a right way, as you'd see in confucian-influenced culture, is placed central
I largely agree with what you have to say about the basic differences between guilt in shame, especially in contrast to this novel phenomenon of cringe. However, I do wonder if the Christian tradition, properly construed, in fact incorporates far more elements of shame than it does the traditional western, Dostoevskian-existential guilt. From the orthodox Catholic perspective, what "sin" is is not simply a matter of adverse effects on social relations wrought by personal actions, which seems to correspond to how guilt is defined here, as primarily a matter of personal (that is, individual) decisions that are found to violate some objective set of standards. However, although sin is not reducible to an action's effects on social relations, it is fundamentally an offense against God, which for the Christian is not some idealized self-projection or Freudian super-ego, but rather a person to whom one is always already subject and to whom one is actively judged. That's why sacramental reconciliation is so powerful and efficacious - not because, as Zizek has suggested, the violator is merely indemnified of the eternal consequences of her actions - but because she is restored to full communion with the very real person against whom one has committed offense. She is also restored to the broader Christian community, which can become quite conspicuous when she is physically observed not partaking in the Eucharist during Sunday Mass and other such external signs. Anyway, a great video and I can appreciate the connection to profilicity. Edit: clarity.
evolution of language may bring us: crigify, cringery, cringidity, cringeworthy, cringeless, -ness, cringefull, cringesolence, cringic, cringeistance and the absolution of cringe; but I wouldn't bet on the last one. I thank you for your postings here. Oftentimes it gets me going, while me - keeping a low profile. smile
First time I heard it was regarding "The Office" UK version which was 2001 unless I am mis-remembering and I consider it more like schadenfreude except cringe is feeling embarrassment at the misfortune of others rather than laughing... Maybe better to say feeling embarrassment at the awkward position someone has put themselves in i.e. David Brent.... Should have listened to the end as usual you got there.... Anyway will leave this up so others can cringe.
I think that "cringe" is best described as a sort of social or cultural "gag reflex". It is a visceral sensation, not simply an idea. The etiquette that is breached is more than social norms or fashion.....it has to do with witnessing a mind utterly loosing the plot. While you are correct that the plot itself is shifting, cringe is a somatic indicator that one is dexterous enough to keep up. Perhaps the quick switch culture seems like evidence of neurosis, and "cringe" might be reduced to a term like "fashion". I tend to think that is more essential than that.....not the particular things that are or are not cringe worthy, but the quick switch collective mind experience. On some level, keeping up with these invisible and ineffable fashions is a way to signal a dexterous mind.
people have become so shameless that we have to feel shame for them! ergo cringe a cringy thing about this video might be how it tried to over complicate a simple thing like cringe with buzzwords that were unnecessary
please talk about representation, because it is really fit into your profilization philosophy. Representation basically ethnic profilization. Where ethnic identity shape not by community but how it is viewed in media.
It would also probably be considered Cringe worthy that i bothered to type out a reply to your request to receive feedback about this topic. I might be considered “desperate” for attention - and perceived desperation is definitely considered Cringe. I suppose because it would be a sign of a low-status Profile to act in desperate ways for attention/validation. 😉
Herr Müller, Can you make more lectures of Luhmann in the future? I tried some of his books but as you already warned they were too difficult to read. Especially the Observations on modernity beat me at its very first page. It took me 2 hours to vaguely understand the first 2 pages. And I don't expect I can learn something similar to the books from binge-watching the whole 5 seasons of the Wire.
Both of Professor Moeller's books on Luhmann (Luhmann Explained + The Radical Luhmann) are both excellent to get you acclimated to Luhmann's web of concepts. I'd start with Luhmann Explained and go from there! Lots of great philosophical context, easy to understand, and prepares you for more.
Cannot describe the feelings I went through indescribable fear, despair, nothingness, sickness, depression emerging into a celebration of life then a borderline turn and fall into psychotic depression they just want to leave the phenomology on and become an immanual kant ?
Nice topic. Shame and shame for others. When I look at what's happening in my home country, it's just embarrassing 😱🙈🙉🙊- should we be ashamed of others or should we just ignore it? Feeling ashamed of others comes from connection. Others, however, say: "what do you care? They also don't care if a sack of rice tips over here." Very well done video, I'm looking forward to the next ones... 😉
The only thing cringe in your presentation was your asking the viewers to point out what was 'cringe' about the presentation. However the act of investing into the ideology of cringe itself, is arguably more worthy of cringe, than the question itself. Really important topic, somewhat understated in the presentation. Cringe (for young people) appears to have replaced the concept of God, as the moral authority for the moderation of behaviour, opinion and image on social media platforms.
To think I wanted to do my thesis on "Personal Branding" in the age of the social media, and wasn't allowed to do so because the professors didn't see the relevancy...
It's cool to know the germans have the concept of 'Fremdschämen' because also say the same thing in Portuguese: "Vergonha alheia". Literally, "Shame (feeling ashamed) for others". Also interesting to know this concept only took off in Germany 10 years ago.
Seneca feels the cringe ... From On Tranquility of Mind: 6) In one's own misfortunes, a person should act so as to grant to grief only what nature demands," not what is required by custom. Indeed, most men shed tears for show and have dry eyes whenever they have no onlooker, thinking it shameful not to weep when everyone is doing it. This evil of depending on other men's opinion has implanted itself so deeply that even the simplest matter, grief has turned into pretense.
Personal feelings of shame are always interwoven with supposed feelings of "Fremdschämen" by others. After all, you always perceive yourself through the eyes of the other anyway, i.e. you feel shame for what you think other people would view as shameful. Sometimes personal shame is misapplied , such as in cases where you later find out that no losing of face in the eyes of others took place. Cringe, however, as the video explained, would seem to be the assuming of shame for the other, where they are not able to. As soon as it dawns on the cringe actor that what they are doing incites feelings of shame in others, the cringe experienced by said others is assuaged. If the soccer player missing a penalty continued playing as though nothing had happened, the situation would also drift towards cringe; but through their display of shameful regret, we are spared the burden of expressing this emotion in its extreme form at least, and can move on to disappointment, anger, or simple shame. As such, it would seem like cringe is only useful in a heterogeneous landscape of interpretations of shame, and as such implies a deep awareness of the absence of a definitive point of reference; hence, the need for affirmation to and by others. Also note how the bodily reaction to feelings of shame is one of preventing the source of embarrassment from leaking out by covering of one's body or face, which simultaneously protects oneself from other's judgment while signaling that you are already taking care of the emotional debt. Cringe, on the other hand, is a visceral reaction of retreat, as though you were being assailed and needed to hide yourself. So in some sense, experiencing cringe is like watching a horror movie.
Yeah maybe cringe and it's relatively recent increased use could be something like the societal equivalent of a star going supernova. I feel like as we head into ever deepening post modem conditions the use of the word is going to become so elastic and the users themselves so disoriented that what we are seeing is the beginning of the final stage of the burning of values to even be cringed about. As Humpty Dumpty once said, it depends on who become the new masters of the word I guess.
The ascribed/coined word maybe new, but the feeling is not. And like many of these new words (and mindless trends, attitudes and behaviors) it is…well…cringe. I enjoy your channel and content, Sir.
I think caring about whether something is cringy or not is pretty cringe tbh. Does that mean I find profilicity cringe? Is the fact that I do not care about curating my profile itself something that others feel I should be ashamed about? Should I care if I am cringy? Or is the preoccupation itself a testament of the fact that I, in fact, already perceive myself in second-order observation, and thus live in profilicity, and does that in fact recursively make me cringy and ashamed? But if I am ashamed of being cringe, and I recognize this fact within myself, then would I, definitionally, stop being cringe? On the other hand, if I should be ashamed, and I am not, and proudly assert this cringe intentionally, and choose to live as though I should not be ashamed... Is that still cringe? On the contrary, I'd argue it's Based.
Subsuming cringe within the academic tone is itself pretty cringy, to lift networked attentive rot into the language of the academy taints the tone itself, rather then exculpates cringe as a concept. Also the acknowledgement of the self awareness of cringe, rendering the action un-cringe, retrospectively renders the whole performance cringe; as the acknowledgement negates the performance: Where a performance (P) is Cringe (C) or un-cringe (-C) and the judgement is rendered in the form P = C/-C the acknowledgement inverts the performance -P = C , or P = -C Therefore if the video was cringe before, the acknowledgement inverts it, however if it wasn't then it is now cringe; as defensive postering when there is nothing to be defensive about is pretty cringe. What other rhetorical or semantic movements could be added to the cringe equation? Could this movement itself be modeled?
It is a privilege to have access to you without having to be enrolled into any of your classes. This is one thing that only RUclips can deliver, and for that I'm grateful for RUclips.
I like how he also destroys Whatilfalthist just by existing
cringe
@@philswiftreligioussect9619 what do you mean?
Why is it a privilege? He wants to spread his works and is choosing social media as a means. This can be called smart since books and papers are expensive despite the industrial mass production of academic papers, since first the US and then the Bologna process has commodified academia. Some people like Moeller and Nick Zentner may have as love for their discipline, which is reason enough.
@@EliasHansenu7f Maybe in the sense that people today are priviliged in the way that a 12 year of African kid now has access to more information (and the ideas of people like Chomsky or Moeller) than Bill Clinton had as president in the 90s
Would love to see a follow-up video on "based philosophy." And maybe a capstone epilegomenon "beyond based and cringe."
THIS
what's epilegomenon?
HA!
@@thecritiquer9407 The end of a work. You could see the 3 videos: "Cringe philosophy", "based philosophy" and "beyond based and cringe" as a trilogy, where "beyond based and cringe" is the epilogue
the cringy part was definitely the part at the end where you asked what part was cringy and said you needed to know as well
Which is brilliant
agreed haha
was about to write this!! kinda engagement-baity cringe haha but it worked for me. also this video made me think about meta-irony, i would love to see a deep dive into meta-irony from the framework of profilicity
Hyper-irony was predicted to be a feature of the end of the age of authenticity by one of the social philosophers referenced in his content and works on Profilicity.
Also: perfect ending
@@Fordtheriver i've checked the book you and your profile but couldn't seem to find the reference, do you remember who was that philosopher or where this was referenced by any chance? would love to read more on that
"Profiles are gambles - bets on the market of social exhibition value."
I find this very insightful!
It's almost on the verge of cringe how PewDiePie thought it was cringe.
i mean it was cringe, he hurt himself for the lols, that's cringe
I kinda disagree. If there's some obvious physical mishap, I don't think it's that cringey. It's more cringey when there is some sort of social misunderstanding.@@parsafakhar
I dub this, meta-cringe, like meta-irony you must know the person to actually figure out whether they think something is cringe, or not, or whether they are unsure themselves
Weaboopie and his anime drawings is pure cringe
@@parsafakhar The actor was actually acting the whole mishap.
existing is low-key cringe. Liking things is definitely cringe.
The universe bothers me.
@@gethelp6271 But do you bother the universe?! - Silicon Valley Techbro
Got to love how a comment that says liking things is definitely cringe gets likes.
@axileus9327 Embrace the cringe and you will know true freedom.
@@tessieofwinters 'Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting' - Alan Dean Foster. 'Absolute freedom is no better than chaos' - Adam Jensen. 'True Cringe is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural' - Cringe Palpatine.
I was amazed by looking at the channel of the Vietnamese woman Uyen Ninh showing with the short «How I changed since I lived in Germany» the concept of identity is looking from her standpoint as an adaptation to fit into a society, making the constructed identity falling apart by living in another country. Identity as such has a function not for the person itself but for the relationship to other humans in society. Thus identity is a political category.
The whole concept of Profilicity is dependent on the definition of identity in the American sense as part of a modern citoyen with a blind affirmation of a modern society with its atomized humans. It's no surprise the author is declaring democracy in the act of observing an artist in his book about Profilicity . This part of Philosophy is naturalizing concepts of society and is so becoming totalitarian.
A remark about cringe. The meaning of the terms like cringe, Karen and facepalm is floating all the time. From a linguistic point of view a language is changing continuously. The masses of cognates in languages are showing the idea of a static language even over a short time span doesn't exists. And yet philosophy insists on the concept of a static language which is a dismissal of human creativity.
lately language is shaped more by ideologies and politicians than by people organically
Here in Australia, the term "cultural cringe" was coined in the 50s to describe the sense of inferiority and shame in our cultural and intellectual products, and our inferiority culture compared to Europe. Its funny to think of an entire nation's creatives considering themselves to be collectively cringey
Is it like that now? I have noticed a much greater self-confidence in a cultural sense among Australians.
@@lloydmorcom9789 it takes a different form now, now our cultural cringe is more young people who don't want to be associated with aspects of Australian culture that they consider conservative or reactionary, rather than considering themselves inferior to the British (most Australians now have a healthy sense of Anglophobia)
Underrated comment, very interesting
You've just reminded me that the same concept exists in Scotland.
The Scottish Cringe was mainly associated with people who adapted their accents and behaviours to seem more acceptable to the larger English population, mainly to be able to fit in with the business/media/political world. It viewed Scottishness as parochial and fundamentally unserious, and to make it, you had to rid yourself of your upbringing, dialect and behaviours.
Notably, Australia has "Tall Poppy Syndrome", which is something else Scotland shares, as I grew up hearing about it, in relation to Scottish celebrities, mainly, but it's exactly the same usage.
Their is less emphasis on Scottish Cringe now, but it still exists. (Alec Salmond has always made me cringe, in reflection of how parochial and unstatesman like I've always found him, but others mileage may vary.) I don't know how far back this goes, but Scottish Cringe was certainly very prevalent in the 80's/90's, and is worse the further back you go.
Sir Les Patterson. The Australian cultural attache to the Court of St. James. " Are ya with me:."
In Brazilian Portuguese we have used “vergonha alheia”, literally “someone else’s shame” for as long as I can remember and seemingly before I was born in 1990.
It’s an old idea.
it's a very strong cultural concept in Spain, Italy, Portugal as well - perhaps precisely because they are not shame cultures like the Central and Northern Europeans, but guilt cultures
@@jakeb.2990Northern and Central Europeans are generally understood to have much stronger guilt based cultures than countries like Spain, Italy and Portugal. Guilt culture correlates strongly with protestantism.
In Turkish, we use "be ashamed on behalf of someone else" , başkası adına utanmak. It has emphatic tone
Same exact concepts as in spain; "vergüenza ajena". The ajena cames from the "aliēnus" in latin. Now I wonder if in Italian they too have the same exact words as well.
Connecting "cringe" to "profilicity" seems quite insightful. As emotional reactions, shame, guilt, and cringe must all involve some sort of interoceptive response. It would be interesting to untangle varieties of the latter...
What most surprised me in his analysis, is that now with profilicity, shame and guilt are removed and give way to cringe as a clear sign of our post-authentic era.
We don't feel anymore(authentically), we only feel in a way one does when he is being seen.
@@triggeringsmuganimepfp7611ur comment reminds me of something an older woman friend said to me when i was in my 20's, about women's magazines. The example she gave was a book review where alongside the review u get a photo of a woman looking picturesque as she reads her book. My friend made the comment 'a man just reads the book, a woman has to also look good while reading the book'. 'Ways of seeing' by john berger was a book recommened at art college in the 90's making the same kind of points. It's like the entire culture has shifted into this self-conscious way of being
in Spanish-speaking countries we have "vergüenza ajena". Wikipedia's article on 'Vicarious embarrassment' puts it as synonym with 'Fremdschämen' and also with "Spanish shame". Perhaps the popularization of 'cringe' has something to do with the 'latinization' of global culture (just like with reggaeton-trap music)?
Can confirm. I've been using "Pena ajena" way before "cringe" as a term was a thing.
Asking what is cringy is cringy.
In the era of sincerity, "shameless" was considered an insult; under authenticity, "remorseless" is an insult. I wonder if under profilicity, "cringeless" will become an insult.
Because I consider myself completely cringeless. 😂
I hope the idea of cringing is a chrysalis in our ascension from and abandonment shame, guilt and cringe.
cringe= uncool =square . The End.
Finally a new video! Thanks.
Such a detailed lecture with clear distinctions and explanations, it's a pleasure to watch you!
Being cringe-aware perfectly fits into modern capitalism. You bet/invest on certain highly volatile "identity features" to rise and fall in public perception as you bet on the rise and fall of companies on the stock market.
The word used to be cringe-worthy. Internet tends to shorten words and meaning become far more loose
“Cringe”is a defense against narcissistic injury.
Best way I've seen it put.
This reminds me of seroius conversations on kitsch I ran across long ago - a certain pride and finding beauty in the predictable and items appealing to nostalgia rather than a creative purpose - a kind of anti-art.
Cringe is broad, but essentially a kind of anti-real, a loop.of the authentic and inauthentic, people doing things either conscoously or unconsciously that dont fit the observers world and to be called out as such, worst case being well-worn boomer notions presented as overwhelmingly important to a generation that doesnt care, or a person who does something intrinsically stupid or predictable while presenting it as original and interesting. As often as not, someone trying to sell themselves and their ideas too hard.
Great channel! Thank you for the free quality content!
Great video as always. I recently had a situation similar to the one pewdiepie and his wife had, where something that was actually rather "cool" for me, was absolutely "cringe" for my friend.
And to answer your question: The only thing that was cringeworthy was the question itself - as I don't think that you actually "care" about what or if you were cringe. Much like the actors in the "taking responsibility" video, the lack of authenthicity made this moment cringe. (Or at least that's what I'm thinking)
I agree. “Cringe is cringe”
(But as I learned in this video: that is because I feel superior to the people that find cringe so often)
Yes - I have just posted about that last moment too… I guess what makes it cringy is the little extra emotional intensity as in “I want to fake it so obviously that none of you will wonder if I care” - which naturally makes me wonder….
This is one of the better uses of the concept of profilicity developed by the appreciated host
I was taught that shame is related to what I am, guilt to what I did (behaviour). For example, when telling a kid “you’re bad”, he believes that’s just the way he is. If I instead say “what you did is bad”, then there’s the opportunity to act differently next time since the behaviour was wrong, not him in essence.
Guilt allows one to act differently, while shame makes it easy to believe there’s nothing I can do since that’s the way I am.
Great video as always! I have recently started a RUclips channel myself, and its fascinating to experience it from the inside. I imagine many of your insights on prolificity comes from that experience. For instance, I notice that I value praise from random people more than from my friends. This is of course I see them as more objective and doesn't feel obliged to give me praise. Also, the amount of statistics youtube gives for each video, with live updating viewer numbers etc is quite stressful and I notice my mood follows the views-graph which obviously isnt good.
this is the only channel that I can't dare to leave cringe comments
Regarding Jordan Peterson, I think it is great that you mention him.
Even though he is Canadian, I'd agree that he represents the standard moral philosophy of the USA and actually the entire English-speaking world quite well. And indeed, his opinions is quite similar in the USA, Canada, and anywhere else in the English-speaking world, with just tiny variations. In addition, the difference between most conservatives and liberals in the Anglophone world is not so great when you understand the full-range of moral thought; the differences are usually related to political wedge issues that conservatives hold mainly because they are grudges, the phenomenon of some people flat-out "liking" religious life, people taking oppositional stances to other ethnic/regional groups due to deep grudges from the past, etc.
The difference in outcome of the USA vs. other Anglophone countries is not the moral framework. That's why JBP can be so popular to American audiences. Likely the difference has more to do with various events of enormous social turmoil in the USA, since the enormous turmoil in the history of the USA created a society at-war with itself, which is a rather unique situation (maybe only the Russian world has a similar situation), and it creates a feedback loop of distrust and un-cooperation that leads to a lot of major social/legal/cultural differences when compared to countries with less turmoil and more unity in their history.
It is fascinating and a privilege to have someone explaining the modern world through the lens of Luhmann's social systems theory. I am a computer scientist in the field of "AI" and education and I am thinking about what properties "AI" lacks to earn the term "AI". Here autopoiesis seems central and I can not stop thinking about an artificial system i.e. an observing system and how it might look like. Thus I really want to understand how the mind "works".
I would really really appreciate if you could talk about Luhmann's text "Erkenntnis als Konstruktion" which currently gives me a lot of headache.
Below my current state of struggle:
I am reading Luhmann's text "Erkenntnis als Konstruktion" but I find it really hard to understand. He begins with a "naiv" assumption that "systems are real, i.e. they exist". And he replaces the subject-object distinction with the system-environment distinction. I run into troubles when I want to get my head around how the picture in my head is constructed if there is no information transfer from the environment into the system. The environment is basically "the nothing" or that that is not differentiated. So without the observer there is nothing. Luhmann keeps the concept of a resistance to test against (similar to Kant) but its source is no longer the-thing-in-itself but the system itself. But if this is the case, what is the effect of the environment? If both co-evolve (as Maturana says) then it seems to me very much like a resistance.
Furthermore, if there is no information transfer how can we even perceive each other. Of course the system is cognitively open and as far as I understand it, this is "realized" via structual coupling. But what exactly is structual couppling if not a sort of transfer of information. If two people interpret the same text differently but perceive the same text (they both can read word by word what is written) but there is no information transfer happening, how can we explain this? Both psychic systems had to be irritated in such a way that both change their structure / configuration in such a way that both can read the text but still make construct a distinct sense out of it?
Basically my biggest problem is to understand structual coupling because it reads like an unexplained gap filler for the interaction between the system and its environment which seems to me to be the most important problem. The text is also so hard to read because it feels like reading a cybernetic cycle i.e. there is no solid starting point (like a set of axioms to build the whole theory) but every term / concept is interdependent on some other term / concept.
This word is very overused, making it hard to define.
Cringe comment
@@abooga8 Cringe reply
@@abooga8 Cringe comeback
1:08 in Russia we call it "Spanish shame". Though I don't really know why
In Spain we call it "vergüenza ajena" (alien shame or shame of other). I gotta look in why Russia would call it Spanish Shame.
Edit or PS: The few quick searches I've done seems to point that this name of "Spanish Shame" its because spaniards seems to be some of the first to create or popularize the idea of "second hand embarrassment" and it spread to other languages. But there barely anything to call a source for this, and its a really specific question so theres almost nothing about it (that you can dond easly), so I would take that theory as not too probable.
I guess breaking down the meaning of 'cringe' in a scholarly fashion might be considered cringe, but I enjoyed the video.
To a Subject using Profilicity as there identity technology, any profile that shows signs of attempted Genuine use of Sincerity or Authenticity is likely to cause Cringe for the one using Profilicity, as it seems the other still thinks there profile is their own and not a second order reflection of the general peer.
Especially to people in this comments section 😂
The word cringeworthy has been around for a long time. I take the word "cringe" in this context as an abbreviation of the former, which appears to have largely fallen from use.
I see the "Three Body Problem" book in the background. Have you read "Dark Forest" and "Death's End"? I'd love to hear a spoiler-filled analysis of the series through a philosophical lens...especially from someone who has expertise in Chinese philosophy.
Happy to point out that the very final plea was indeed quite cringy - but then again perhaps that was the whole point of it 🤔
The german term "Fremdschämen" feels like the academic version of cringe. Was surprised hw didnt mention it when he went to Schadenfreude.
Aaaand he did in the end. Now i feel ashamed.
Cringe
@@anainesgonzalez8868 no way
@@whanua98 it is a joke
@@anainesgonzalez8868 cringe
In fact he did in the beginning too. Cringe comment.
Your videos on media theory and identy technology are second to none. Deep yet easy to understand. Cant tell you how excited i get when a new post of yours shows up. Keep them coming please. On a side note i wonder what your thoughts are on people who are oblivious to cringe, to the point that it becomes an asset. Im thinking of people like tommy wiseau or neil breen. There's a weird dynamic there, where their audience simultaneously would hate to be that unaware, but is also envious of the freedom that lack of awareness would grant.
Yoo! Good video man. Presentation is on point.
Great content! Nothing cringeworthy from my perspective. I do believe that by being authentic and rooted in ourselves we can experience other people's emotional reaction to our content as illuminating towards how different we can be as human beings. Your guy/girl video disagreeing about whether the Finnish guy's attempt to do a backflip was cringeworthy was a perfect example of this.
Please make more philosophy in motion videos 😢
The guilt/shame opposition doesn't only have a Western/Eastern aspect - it also has a Western past vs Western present society aspect: according to some psychotherapists, nowadays depression is mostly of a narcissistic nature (based on the feeling of shame/inadequacy of the Self) while in the past it was more based on the feeling of guilt.
Narcissistic? That seems a little hyperbolic. Strong word
People trying to point out cringe-y videos is cringe. I always felt saying, "comment below," or "don't forget to like and subscribe" is cringe, but I've become somewhat desensitized. I would feel uncomfortable saying that in my own video, without having to be purposefully cringe-y as you pointed out.
I feel cringe-y when someone throws my records on when I'm in the room.
hard to believe that I have more to say on top of a 23 minute video.
One thing - I think cringe is often a word people use to hide anger. When people are angry at another person's misbehaviors, sometimes they say that they cringe. Some people use "sadness" in the same way.
Definitely not always happening with cringe.
But I think we have an "anger epidemic" in the USA these days, maybe in the rest of the world, to a lesser extent. And I think that the anger epidemic actually contributes to the cringe epidemic.
In Finnish cringe would translate as myötähäpeä (mitt schade; shared shame). It may be a construct from Swedish medkänsla (compassion) through changing "känsla" (feeling) to shame. Myötähäpeä is a newish concept, probably born to describe cringe exactly.
In spain we call it "Vergüenza Ajena" or, sometimes translated to english as "Third party embarrassment". The "vergüenza" comes from latin, and actually just means modesty. The "ajena" just comes from "aliēnus" that means "from other". Same origin as the english word "alienate" or "alien".
@@Liisa3139 Finland, otherwise known as East Sweden, not to be confused with Norway (West Sweden) or Denmark (South Sweden). By the way, I think the Baltic Sea should be renamed the Swedish Sea.
cant wait to make my friends cringe when i tell them about this. thanks.
(i do not speak english very well) I read an article in which fake sneakers were "cringe", because "they were trying and failing to be" original sneakers. Autor wore them for a month as an experiment and his mental state deteriorated greatly. Maybe you'll be interested in that article, because for me it looks like good example of profilicity, article called "How Wearing Fake Sneakers for 30 Days Drove Me Into Deep Depression"
Cringe occurs when an obvious attempt at image (profile) curation fails.
It takes place in the gap between the perception the actor is hoping to inspire in the observer, and the actual reaction of the observers. Rife with the possibility of invoking cringe-response are attempts to embrace a moral position without convincing the viewer of your sincerity; also attempts to appear "cool" that betray their derivative nature (imitating a celebrity for example). Any communication that is weighted more heavily towards the image of the protagonist, as opposed to real information exchange that would benefit the viewer/hearer, opens itself to a cringe-response.
Simple incongruity can stimulate cringe if the attempt falls below a certain irony value. An attempt to appear worldly-wise or enlightened can collapse into cringe response if you fail to integrate it sufficiently (smoothly) into your profile. Humor that is insufficiently "post-authenticity" will also generate cringe-reflex. Old-world sincerity, latitudinarianism, or implicit moral elevations are also quite vulnerable. Hypocrisy is an age-old pitfall that can easily become cringe (see the "Imagine" lyrics read by wealthy celebrities for a great example).
TL; DR: Cringe-response is a reflex provoked by profile curation failure, dependent to some extent on the audience receiving the message; the risk of provoking a cringe-response is higher when performed in front of younger people. Cringe is a product of the hive-mind, a social control measure, and a gatekeeping tool to limit entry into an at least semi-defined sub-culture.
I've seen the clip at 13:35 a few times, not because I wanted to, but because people sometimes use it for reference. Every time I desperately wish it was meant as sarcasm. I guess this explains cringe humour. You are shown some next level cringe, but when it's revealed to be parody, we laugh with the sudden release of tension.
Edit: of course Moeller went on to cover that in the video. Does this acknowledgement reduce or increase the cringe of my comment?
Just as I missed your videos yesterday
all I know is, I’m exhausted with everyone’s seeming obsession with cringe and how quick so many people are to want to call cringe on something. Your video makes a good case for how inescapable it is, so can we all just please move on already? I find it kinda gross how young people are actually training each other on it. 🤷🏻♂️
Every generation has had its own ways of being judgmental. Older generations did it, and future ones will too. It's kinda an inevitable part of social living. What is considered cringe will change, and perhaps even new words for it will be coined. But the social phenomenon itself will never go away.
@@ArawnOfAnnwnyes, not until people learn to be less judgemental of each other anyway!
The fact that the word ‘cringe’ has taken on a colloquial status shouldn’t be taken to mean that it’s at all ‘new’. The idea of being embarrassed *for* someone else, which is essentially what ‘cringe’ has always meant, is not at all new (comedy in the early 00s, such as Curb Your Enthusiasm, The Office, and Peep Show were all examples of cringe-based comedy).
nice video! love the carsick cars at the end
Great to see a new video again! Wonder if this was inspired by our discussions on the class in Belgrade 😊
You attended his class in Belgrade? I found out too late that he was coming to Serbia and missed it. Would you say that the professor is as eloquent live as he is in his videos? I really wonder.
Greetings from NS
@@soundsofearth3175yes, he absolutely is! Certainly above my expectations. The class was even better because it was interactive of course. Also a cool guy to have a beer with haha.
Btw, he should be coming back soon, but I'm not aware if there are any courses or talks planned.
Yes, of course, but as mentioned in the inscription, the idea originated from discussions at the Psychology Department. Please check out the info on the film event at FMK next Thursday (May 23) posted in the community section of this channel. Maybe another opportunity to chat!
@@soundsofearth3175 Please check out the info on the film event at FMK next Thursday (May 23) posted in the community section of this channel.
@@nothke Yes, of course, but as mentioned in the inscription, the idea originated from discussions at the Psychology Department. Please check out the info on the film event at FMK next Thursday (May 23) posted in the community section of this channel. Maybe another opportunity to chat!
Two comments:
1.
What you didn't mention is that cringe at the same time is a community identity-building phenomenon.
If a group of people share a profile (as in profilocity), they will cringe at the same thing at the same time.
For example - In the social situation in real life, if you have ever been part of a cringe worthy moment, you know how the people who share the same identity will look each other in the eye to confirm they all share this feeling and condemn the person who is the source of cringe.
On the a social media plane, for example, it may occur as a meme that is posted on a small Instagram profile that is only viewed by the community that shares that identity (such insta profile usually talks and creates content around their shared profile) .
I think the source of this communal aspect is what you said about the ever-changing nature of profiles and identity based on profiles in a profilocity-based society.
Cringe is needed to constantly update the boundaries of the profile through opposition.
Together we are what we cringe at.
2. This is more of an anecdote, but in one of the social groups of people who are 10-20 years younger than me, let's say 20-20-something, who use cringe and feel cringe a lot, there is a notion of rejecting cringe or even embracing cringe.
My observation is that it's because cringe is a form of shaming (an idea in itself, that younger generation rejects) what is cringe for one identity profile is something positive in another identity profile.
So, because identity in proficity is an amalgamation of many profiles, too much cringe in a community discourages individuals from expressing themselves through other profiles that are not the profile that binds the community, what are important to the identity of individuals within the community.
I think it's simpler. In cultures we ascribe often to ideals of pride and grace to varying mixes. Where grace is more ideal, guilt reigns as what there is when gratitude is not acted from. Where pride, the sensation of achievement, is held more ideal, shame reigns as what there is when achievement is not earned. In Christian theology, the grace & blessing of God that is not earned is central. In theology where doing things a right way, as you'd see in confucian-influenced culture, is placed central
Cringe is still heavily dependent on the subjective viewpoint of a person's learned-prejudice that he/she grew-up with.
I largely agree with what you have to say about the basic differences between guilt in shame, especially in contrast to this novel phenomenon of cringe. However, I do wonder if the Christian tradition, properly construed, in fact incorporates far more elements of shame than it does the traditional western, Dostoevskian-existential guilt. From the orthodox Catholic perspective, what "sin" is is not simply a matter of adverse effects on social relations wrought by personal actions, which seems to correspond to how guilt is defined here, as primarily a matter of personal (that is, individual) decisions that are found to violate some objective set of standards. However, although sin is not reducible to an action's effects on social relations, it is fundamentally an offense against God, which for the Christian is not some idealized self-projection or Freudian super-ego, but rather a person to whom one is always already subject and to whom one is actively judged. That's why sacramental reconciliation is so powerful and efficacious - not because, as Zizek has suggested, the violator is merely indemnified of the eternal consequences of her actions - but because she is restored to full communion with the very real person against whom one has committed offense. She is also restored to the broader Christian community, which can become quite conspicuous when she is physically observed not partaking in the Eucharist during Sunday Mass and other such external signs. Anyway, a great video and I can appreciate the connection to profilicity.
Edit: clarity.
People conflate authenticity and being unique. The former is honesty, the latter is entitlement to be different.
evolution of language may bring us: crigify, cringery, cringidity, cringeworthy, cringeless, -ness, cringefull, cringesolence, cringic, cringeistance
and the absolution of cringe;
but I wouldn't bet on the last one.
I thank you for your postings here. Oftentimes it gets me going, while me - keeping a low profile. smile
First time I heard it was regarding "The Office" UK version which was 2001 unless I am mis-remembering and I consider it more like schadenfreude except cringe is feeling embarrassment at the misfortune of others rather than laughing... Maybe better to say feeling embarrassment at the awkward position someone has put themselves in i.e. David Brent.... Should have listened to the end as usual you got there.... Anyway will leave this up so others can cringe.
I think that "cringe" is best described as a sort of social or cultural "gag reflex". It is a visceral sensation, not simply an idea. The etiquette that is breached is more than social norms or fashion.....it has to do with witnessing a mind utterly loosing the plot. While you are correct that the plot itself is shifting, cringe is a somatic indicator that one is dexterous enough to keep up.
Perhaps the quick switch culture seems like evidence of neurosis, and "cringe" might be reduced to a term like "fashion". I tend to think that is more essential than that.....not the particular things that are or are not cringe worthy, but the quick switch collective mind experience. On some level, keeping up with these invisible and ineffable fashions is a way to signal a dexterous mind.
There are like so many words to listen to in this video
Contrapoints also has a video on this topic that is very much worth the watch!
people have become so shameless that we have to feel shame for them! ergo cringe
a cringy thing about this video might be how it tried to over complicate a simple thing like cringe with buzzwords that were unnecessary
please talk about representation, because it is really fit into your profilization philosophy. Representation basically ethnic profilization. Where ethnic identity shape not by community but how it is viewed in media.
Here’s one for you;
Getting “Triggered” seems to now be universally considered Cringe behaviour.
It would also probably be considered Cringe worthy that i bothered to type out a reply to your request to receive feedback about this topic. I might be considered “desperate” for attention - and perceived desperation is definitely considered Cringe. I suppose because it would be a sign of a low-status Profile to act in desperate ways for attention/validation. 😉
What I found cringe in this video is the application of a theory from the last century, we are in 2024, professor.
Herr Müller, Can you make more lectures of Luhmann in the future? I tried some of his books but as you already warned they were too difficult to read. Especially the Observations on modernity beat me at its very first page. It took me 2 hours to vaguely understand the first 2 pages. And I don't expect I can learn something similar to the books from binge-watching the whole 5 seasons of the Wire.
Both of Professor Moeller's books on Luhmann (Luhmann Explained + The Radical Luhmann) are both excellent to get you acclimated to Luhmann's web of concepts. I'd start with Luhmann Explained and go from there! Lots of great philosophical context, easy to understand, and prepares you for more.
“Vicarious embarrassment”, or “Spanish Shame”. Apparently, “Fremdschämen” in German.
Cannot describe the feelings I went through indescribable fear, despair, nothingness, sickness, depression emerging into a celebration of life then a borderline turn and fall into psychotic depression they just want to leave the phenomology on and become an immanual kant ?
yeah it is weird sometimes, like being greet by your parents or so close with your parents is cringe for some, like leave me and my family alone.
Nice topic. Shame and shame for others.
When I look at what's happening in my home country, it's just embarrassing 😱🙈🙉🙊- should we be ashamed of others or should we just ignore it?
Feeling ashamed of others comes from connection.
Others, however, say: "what do you care? They also don't care if a sack of rice tips over here."
Very well done video, I'm looking forward to the next ones... 😉
The only thing cringe in your presentation was your asking the viewers to point out what was 'cringe' about the presentation. However the act of investing into the ideology of cringe itself, is arguably more worthy of cringe, than the question itself.
Really important topic, somewhat understated in the presentation.
Cringe (for young people) appears to have replaced the concept of God, as the moral authority for the moderation of behaviour, opinion and image on social media platforms.
To think I wanted to do my thesis on "Personal Branding" in the age of the social media, and wasn't allowed to do so because the professors didn't see the relevancy...
when I was young I was told that only cowards cringe
I am not sure it so societal. I often feel cringe that is produced by my own set of values and ethics while other people seem to be ok.
Knowing what will be cringe in the future could make you a lot of money
It's cool to know the germans have the concept of 'Fremdschämen' because also say the same thing in Portuguese: "Vergonha alheia". Literally, "Shame (feeling ashamed) for others".
Also interesting to know this concept only took off in Germany 10 years ago.
19:44 profiles need validation from the general peer
Seneca feels the cringe ...
From On Tranquility of Mind:
6) In one's own misfortunes, a person should act so as to grant to grief only what nature demands," not what is required by custom. Indeed, most men shed tears for show and have dry eyes whenever they have no onlooker, thinking it shameful not to weep when everyone is doing it. This evil of depending on other men's opinion has implanted itself so deeply that even the simplest matter, grief has turned into pretense.
Personal feelings of shame are always interwoven with supposed feelings of "Fremdschämen" by others. After all, you always perceive yourself through the eyes of the other anyway, i.e. you feel shame for what you think other people would view as shameful. Sometimes personal shame is misapplied , such as in cases where you later find out that no losing of face in the eyes of others took place. Cringe, however, as the video explained, would seem to be the assuming of shame for the other, where they are not able to. As soon as it dawns on the cringe actor that what they are doing incites feelings of shame in others, the cringe experienced by said others is assuaged. If the soccer player missing a penalty continued playing as though nothing had happened, the situation would also drift towards cringe; but through their display of shameful regret, we are spared the burden of expressing this emotion in its extreme form at least, and can move on to disappointment, anger, or simple shame. As such, it would seem like cringe is only useful in a heterogeneous landscape of interpretations of shame, and as such implies a deep awareness of the absence of a definitive point of reference; hence, the need for affirmation to and by others. Also note how the bodily reaction to feelings of shame is one of preventing the source of embarrassment from leaking out by covering of one's body or face, which simultaneously protects oneself from other's judgment while signaling that you are already taking care of the emotional debt. Cringe, on the other hand, is a visceral reaction of retreat, as though you were being assailed and needed to hide yourself. So in some sense, experiencing cringe is like watching a horror movie.
If anyone feels cringe about anything I do, what do I care?
Or should I even care or pretend I do?
please make a video on credibility in the era of profilicity
Yeah maybe cringe and it's relatively recent increased use could be something like the societal equivalent of a star going supernova. I feel like as we head into ever deepening post modem conditions the use of the word is going to become so elastic and the users themselves so disoriented that what we are seeing is the beginning of the final stage of the burning of values to even be cringed about.
As Humpty Dumpty once said, it depends on who become the new masters of the word I guess.
If you don't know what the guy referred to when he said "nut" at 21:13 then that is cringey by your definition.
In Spanish you can say "vergüenza ajena", literally shame from outside.
¿Literal? 😅
Cringe video about cringe. Not sure if I should have seen that coming or not.
This guy reminds me of 60 minutes with Andy Rooney
❤
The ascribed/coined word maybe new, but the feeling is not. And like many of these new words (and mindless trends, attitudes and behaviors) it is…well…cringe.
I enjoy your channel and content, Sir.
"What makes people cringe, or at least say so!"
I'd emphasize "at least say so."
Обожаю академическую философию. Первый кадр хочется напечатать и повесить с портретом Канта
yo mate, posting in russian is big cringe. you're going to the cringe gulag
@@CEOofGameDev embracing the cringe within yourself is a key to freedom!
I think caring about whether something is cringy or not is pretty cringe tbh. Does that mean I find profilicity cringe? Is the fact that I do not care about curating my profile itself something that others feel I should be ashamed about? Should I care if I am cringy? Or is the preoccupation itself a testament of the fact that I, in fact, already perceive myself in second-order observation, and thus live in profilicity, and does that in fact recursively make me cringy and ashamed? But if I am ashamed of being cringe, and I recognize this fact within myself, then would I, definitionally, stop being cringe? On the other hand, if I should be ashamed, and I am not, and proudly assert this cringe intentionally, and choose to live as though I should not be ashamed... Is that still cringe? On the contrary, I'd argue it's Based.
I think "cringe" is similar to "vergüenza ajena" in Spanish, but when applied on social media.
Subsuming cringe within the academic tone is itself pretty cringy, to lift networked attentive rot into the language of the academy taints the tone itself, rather then exculpates cringe as a concept. Also the acknowledgement of the self awareness of cringe, rendering the action un-cringe, retrospectively renders the whole performance cringe; as the acknowledgement negates the performance:
Where a performance (P) is Cringe (C) or un-cringe (-C)
and the judgement is rendered in the form P = C/-C
the acknowledgement inverts the performance -P = C , or P = -C
Therefore if the video was cringe before, the acknowledgement inverts it, however if it wasn't then it is now cringe; as defensive postering when there is nothing to be defensive about is pretty cringe.
What other rhetorical or semantic movements could be added to the cringe equation? Could this movement itself be modeled?
Do I read intention on the choice of players that missed penalty kicks?
9:35 - you really didn't had to. Your choice Professor.
As a wise man once said: "The cringe is compulsory"
ContraPoints has a really good video about cringe
Prof muller, honestly what is really cringe is the fact that YOU DON'T UPLOAD MUCH MORE FREQUENTLY THAN THIS.