If the Church Were Christian
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- Опубликовано: 20 сен 2017
- Where did the church go wrong? For Quaker pastor and author Philip Gulley, it’s not heeding Jesus’s central message: compassion.
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Transcript:
I think a lot of Americans are disillusioned with religion because religion has been often, especially fundamental religion, a poor advertisement for the reality of God. It has been too deeply concerned about its own power, about its own wealth. It has insisted upon a level of respect it has not earned, and it has been woefully silent in critical junctures of American history. It has far too often aligned itself with the powerful and the immoral, and it has in the process neglected its responsibility for the outcast.
If the Church Were Christian
My name is Phil Gulley. I live in Danville, Indiana which is about 20 miles west of Indianapolis. I’m a Quaker pastor and a writer and pastor of Fairfield Friends Meeting, which is about 3 miles south of the Indianapolis international airport. Been there since 1826. The meeting has, not me.
I don’t think Jesus intended to start a religion. I think Jesus intended to make the religion he was in more faithful. I think Jesus understood himself as a teacher and perhaps a prophet in the line of the 8th century prophets, but this notion that Jesus came and was intending to start a new religion because Judaism was corrupt, I think that’s a poor reading of history.
The Focus of Jesus’s Ministry
If we say that Jesus did not come to start a new religion but that he understood himself as a faithful Jew who went about saying yes to the presence and work of God whenever he encountered it-and it’s clear that he did this-then we begin to look at his message, and we ask ourselves, “What were his priorities?” And it’s clear: compassion, compassion, compassion. Everywhere he went. So I think that’s the heart of Jesus’s message, and consequently I think any church which doesn’t practice compassion, which instead encourages division, separation, isolation, has lost the point.
It was just recently that Robert Jeffress, the pastor of the First Baptist Church of Dallas, informed us that God had given Donald Trump permission to use nuclear weapons against North Korea. It’s clear that once you say that, you have lost all understanding of the compassion of Jesus Christ.
If the Church Were Christian
If the church were Christian, it would welcome the other unconditionally. It would not say to gay people, “If you repent of your lifestyle, you are welcome here.” If the church were Christian, it would lose its fascination with doctrines and creeds, which to me always seem to confine the will of God to a sentence. I think if the church were Christian, it would listen deeply to the poor and to the marginalized who were the friends of Jesus. There are a few instances of Jesus befriending the powerful-the Roman centurion-but far and away more often, it turns out Jesus seemed to really seek out and welcome those whom the world had rejected, and I think if the church were Christian, it would be following that model.
Why I Stay
When someone tells me they’re disillusioned by the modern church, I totally get it. I tell them, “I am, too.” The only reason I stay in it is because I’m fortunate enough to have found a community of Quakers who are committed to being the church in their care for others, in their commitment to justice, and in their love for the underdog. If I didn’t have that, I would probably not remain in the church.
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The views expressed in this video are of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Friends Journal or its collaborators.
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Jesus did help and show compassion but he also set them straight and guided them into a path of righteousness after helping them. We are to love and not to judge but if someone is walking toward a cliff edge, what is the point of loving them but not showing them the path they are walking towards the cliff edge. God does love unconditionally but he also gives guidance. He doesnr say, everything u do is ok to do or he would be ok if u were being hateful to everyone.
Every now and again you come across something on You Tube that you wish everyone could hear , and I mean everyone. This is one of them.
Yes, I agree.
This really resonated with me. I think I’m going to look into where the Quakers meet in my area.
These videos caused me to look into my local group. Unfortunately with COVID my first meeting won't be the same (zoom), but I will be attending as soon as I can.
Church should feel welcoming and safe it should not feel like a place in which you walk into and you feel as if you are looking down the barrels of several guns and the minute you say or do something someone doesn't like your about to get shot.many churches feel as if expected to go and your allowed to walk through those doors but your constantly being scrutinized and you don't feel as if your not totally trusted.
I think too often Christians think they're erring on the side of caution by adhering so closely to certain "rules", when they should really be erring on the side of "love everyone as I love you, what you do to the least among you you do to Me."
He's right. If anything, Jesus of Nazareth was ANTI-religion: "The light of God is within YOU."
I feel the LOVE OF CHRIST HERE! THANK YOU!
I simply wish people can walk into a church express how they feel about having to worry about not being hated or chastised for it.Many churches tends to act hostile for those who don't quite live up to the expectations of those in power.I never really went to church and there is no society of friends church in my area but I thought of walking into to some of my local churches meet some of the people there and then sit back and observe how things are like in those churches.
Gary Naccarto How did that work for you?
This video really speaks to me
The truth hurts sometimes.
Thank you. That was very well said. I think that we know the reason that we are Quakers and interpret things differently then us. We are all responsible for our own personal relationship with God.
OR our personal relationship with reality.
This was the video I needed to see. Thank you for that. Ironically, (is it ironic? Idk... Interestingly,) I just got a book out of our public library called Unlearning God. I believe Philip Gulley, who was is this video, is the author of that book. I'm enjoying it immensely!
Its imperative that we know the doctrines of God. Without knowing what the doctrines of faith are we cannot defend the faith
I do understand what he means.
JESUS SAID “REPENT AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL.”
I kind of figured that when he brought up Trumps name that it was going to open up a can of worms however I would also like to say that this was a great video.
AMEN! Perfect. For those with ears to hear, eyes to see, and those truly awake and living. This message is Jesus 101, untainted and right on target.
Thank you for making this video. I am very interested in attending a meeting in my area when covid allows. I feel like I may have been a Quaker my entire life and just didn't know it? Again, thank you.
Look for an online meeting. My friend goes to one.
That was precisely my own thought when I first began to learn about the Quaker ways. BTW, I just noticed your "name." My license plate is Be Kind.
I agree 100% of what he has said. Thank you.
beautifully spoken
Just read the transcript and I am very troubled about what Pastor Jeffress is purported to have said. Pastor Jeffress is off the mark I believe. God help us.
Thank you! This is exactly what I try to tell my "Christian" friends.
Compassion💚💚💚
I'm not interested in a church if they dont teach the Full Gospel, I heard nothing from him about the "REAL" reason Jesus came. "HIS" compassion on the cross to save all us sinners that are welcome in the churches.
I am drawn to this however I do believe Peter was told to build a church. That being said I would like to know more about this. Jesus is love and compassion. The Bible is important to me.
I’m very unhappy with religion but not living more quietly and purposely.
The opening speech could easily have been made around the time of Martin Luther.
Jesus' message was not compassion, but salvation. He called out the religious rulers of his day and ran the money changers our of the temple. Sure He had compassion. He healed sick people and showed grace to the woman at the well. But to say compassion was His ultimate message waters down His life and ministry.
You conveniently forget that Jesus FIRST refused to condemn the adultress (compassion) then he ASKS her not to sin again. (salvation). Not the other way around. He was love first and formost.
@@TheEmmaLucille I did not forget. He had compassion, but everyone can have compassion. Only Jesus can save. That was His ultimate message, not His only message.
@@juanitadudley4788 Who does the "saving"? Jesus, or god?
God bless you man of God. You blessed me
I think if the church was Christian more people would go to church because if the church was truly Christian everyone would feel safe and no one would feel intimidated.
I didn't know Quakers had pastors but cool, very humble man. Is there Quaker communities where they all live and are open minded like this ?
The title Pastor isn't what you think. He isn't a minister or priest he organizes everyone getting together and those types of things. All Quakers are this open and we try to have as open of a relationship with
God as possible. There is a Friends meeting where you live you should go meet them.
Most Quakers in the US go to churches with pastors. Some pastors are more administrative, but others are preachers. Most Quaker meetings in the US, however, do not have pastors. I was a member and sojourning member of two meetings that had a pastor. One was semi-programmed (1/2 silent, have regular church service) and the other was a normal church service with 5 minutes of silence.
@@kevin-douglasolive3616 Did you mean to say that most Quaker meetings in the UK have pastors? Whereas in the US that is the minority?
@@convincedquaker Nope. The data is dated (1990s) but as of then most Quakers in the US attended Friends meetings or churches that were pastoral or semi pastoral, but there were fewer such congregations. On the flip side a lesser number of Quakers attend unprogrammed meetings but there are more such meetings. Hey, I learned something at Guilford and Earlham! 😉
Does Gulley believe that Jesus Christ is God the Son? He said that Jesus was a teacher and a prophet in a long line of prophets. That's very concerning. Also he said that churches should welcome gays without telling them to repent and give up that lifestyle. Yet in the NT we read about a man having relations with his step mother. He could not be accepted in the church unless he repented which he apparently did.
Powerful powerful powerful message.
Why did Jesus say go into the world and preach the gospel ,what we call the great commission if he did not intend it to create a church
The guy in this video does not know what he's talking about, biblically speaking.
If I may be so rude to disagree with one point, doctrine. When John wrote that Jesus Christ came in the flesh he was writing that to counter the gnostic idea but that the Son of God came as spirit only.
Yes doctrine can be a stumbling block but it doesn't have to.
Listening to this video (as great as most of it is), I don't think he would agree with you on that. L You say that John wrote that to establish that Jesus came in the flesh but he says Jesus was just a devout Jewish prophet. I don't think he believes Jesus was the literal son of God or rose from the dead either, both things you might also call doctrines.
Good grief, Jesus did not come just in "spirit" only. Have you not read the Bible?
Yes; Jesus had great compassion like when he said "I desire mercy over sacrifice". But Jesus's main message is clearly stated over and over; mankind is to "Repent and Believe" for the Kingdom is at hand.
Was that Jesus's message? Or, the message that those who came much later chose to emphasize when they instructed their scribes?
@@convincedquaker Yes; this was Jesus main message throughout the four Gospels.
@@convincedquaker Have you no read the Bible? Jesus clearly called sinners to repentance, warning them of dying in their sins and being condemned to hell. See Matthew 13.
If the church were Christian it would be a place where everyone could feel safe rather than just those who agree with those who are in power.
Excellent words.
Jesus is our Lord, Saviour and Redeemer, the way and truth of life and no one comes to God except through Jesus Christ.
I respectfully disagree.
@@convincedquaker Do you want to talk?
[Mt.25] Then Jesus said, ''When I was thirsty, you brought me water. When I was homeless and cold, you brought me a coat and sheltered me. When I was sick, you cared for me. When I was in prison, you came to visit me... I assure you that whatever you have done for those in need among you, you have done for me.''
Yes, and He also said, "Repent, or you will all likewise perish."
This refers to the Tribulation
well said
Aneta Postek mm
Jesus is the messenger. The belief that he is the Son of God who was sent to shed his blood for you and I. Jesus never wrote the New Testament. It was written by his followers. It is NOT a religion. Believing in Jesus is the way to salvation only. Secondly it is a relationship with God, big difference
I just wonder if he read the New Testament especially Paul's letters. Jesus wasn't the "friend" of the centurion btw. He had close 12 disciples one of them betrayed him. Also the insurance of Jesus being just a prophet is a huge contradiction to the Bible. I think Ouakers are closer to the original church but the issue is the many ideas and ways within the Q church. If we are to call one a Christian at least it should align with the Bible ( forget creeds and theology). It's just my thoughts.
Yes to all of this !!!!!
Do you believe jesus is the son of god and god manifest in the flesh as scriptures says?
It goes back to your definition of "Christian." if you mean by that the formalized Post-Nicene "church", then most of the "church" is Christian. But if you mean by that a follower, to be a disciple of Jesus and his teachings, then you have to go into a different bucket. Christianity has no use for the Torah (except for maybe tithing--which is a joke because you can scarcely get a Christian into their wallet for one tithe, much less the THREE tithes in the Torah) at all. They are out from "under the law" because they utterly refuse to read Acts 15:20-21.
This message is refreshing and spot-on.
Thank you!
It's a terrible message. But you would only see it that way if you understood the Bible.
I couldn't agree more with the things that this man has said. God bless him !
"Compassion" is the best default whenever you don't know "The Answer".
I agree with what he said. I can see and understand what he said but my question is about being holy too. How can you relate holiness with what you just said.?
Well spoken, refreshing, thank you.
Good video but Jesus never called himself a teacher and prophet. Jesus summed it up in one verse, John 14:6 - “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father except through me.”
It's actually a terrible video, that is, from a biblical standpoint.
His message was to PREACH the gospel and to win SOULS that was HIs HEART that NONE should perish and also you can't preach on His love without preaching on His Judgement as well and a large part of His ministry was praying for the sick and Healing them too but I AGREE with you that the church is like Rev 2-3 that there are CORRUPT, LUKEWARM and not many that truly teach the FULL GOSPEL and that is WHY we have so many churches because they want to follow their OWN WILL AND WAY and Not what the Word says and they ADD and TAKE AWAY from the scriptures and that is a SIN -Duet 4:2 there is NO HOLINESS in the house of God and His people no longer FEAR God is what Yeshua told me for the Fear of the Father is the START of WISDOM Proverbs 9:10 and without HOLINESS you will NOT see Jesus Hebrews 12:14
You are going to have to speak up! Your pedestal is so high and lofty your words are barely audible.
Who was it that said, "What is that to thee. Follow thou me!'
Terry Elliott What?
In the olden days the Quakers were antinomians who gave their lives for the light within, not a book in their hand. But the Quakers gave up the fight and today they have become bible worshipers like all the rest with their own interpretation of course.
You don't have to worry about persecution, you have nothing to be persecuted for.
Satan will not persecute bible worshipers.
Mary Dyer, Marmaduke Stephenson and the others that gave their lives for Jesus, you shouldn't be allowed to mention their names because you are no longer a part of them.
Tear up your idol the bible and ask Jesus to fill you with the Holy Spirit and get back on the battlefield because as you stand now you are a disgrace.
What are you talking about? Evangelical and some other Quakers have taken up the Bible as the Word of God, but hthis is hardly true of liberal quakers. I think we err completely on the other end. Bible? What Bible? :)
@@Meri7965 dude, find some peace instead of complaining about this comment.
That's some serious Judgement you're dishing out right there.
Please click on the picture icon that you see here Bible prophecy revealed from The Book of Revelations. Real Fallen Angel
I have compassion for Philip Gulley, but I need to ask whether he trusts the Bible. What he's espousing here is not Christianity- don't be fooled anyone.
Yep. Jesus had compassion, but that was not his end goal. His end goal was for us to be saved and to become more like Him.
@@juanitadudley4788 And, what's the best path to becoming more like him? Compassion.
Anyone want to offer the cliff notes version. Also, is this all just a "bash the other guy" sermon
a minute in it was
That comes off as unkind Regina. "Speak the truth in love", say Paul; or speak silence.
You could be speaking to a newbie, someone pressed for time, or injured and challenged to understand.
There was no bashing. That's a strong word for what he did. It was, however, critical. It was supposed to be. Being a person wounded by the church, I think he was MUCH kinder than I.
I heard no bashing.
Donald Trump NEVER said that though.Someone else said that.Let's not drag President Trump into one lone person's words-who's trying to use Trump's name as leverage.He's not Trump's spokesperson.And yes,I get that that is not the point of the statement but still,everybody is always picking on this president.No man or woman is perfect.By calling President Trump by his name and not his title shows lack of respect for our Commander in Chief and therefore lack of compassion for him.Ironic isn't it?
Quakers do not believe in titles; they call everyone by their name.
He didn't say Donald Trump said it. He said that Robert Jeffress said it ABOUT Trump. He said what church Robert Jeffress pastors, and didn't imply that Jeffress is in any way a spokesman for Trump. You demand respect be shown for the current President? Okay, I'll show as much respect for this President as you did for the last one. Deal?