How Does Barrel Length Affect Accuracy?
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Paul tests how barrel length affects accuracy with his Dan Wesson Pistol Pack.
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Hey everyone,
First, you have not won a prize, that's a scam that we can't block.
Secondly, many people have commented on me noy using a rest or vice. Remember, we were evaluating the effect of barrel and sighting plane on the accuracy achieved by the average shooter, not the gun itself.
Thank you for taking the time to let everybody know bud I hate those people that try that crap.
Since you seem plagued by the ubiquitous flyer, is there something we can do as shooters to eliminate it? Be interesting to hear ways to eliminate or mitigate it.
Interesting video. These results tend to fall in line with my experience. I'm continually surprised how I can often shoot a three-to-six inch barrel almost as well as an 8" barrel, but when I get down to a 2" barrel, it's way more of a challenge.
The man, the myth, the legend himself.
Interesting. I wonder how the findings can be explained! Both shifts and spread
Bean Dip Willie
"At the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established" Looks like we got our two witnesses! :)
I would like to see a 2” barrel with a 6” sight radius.
I can shoot a gun with a long barrel just as poorly as I can shoot a gun with a short barrel. A talent, I guess. Thanks for sharing.
Guess we should be a talented team lol
Paul's channel should be at the forefront of firearm education. He is an excellent example.
Agreed, no political undertones or overtones, no company plugs, just info and emphasis on the fact that his opinion is all based on his training and his experiences.
True
Or just use common sense and network with other shooters?
Well, he is, in fact, whatchu call a professional
Agreed.
Wow, Mr Harrell. You never cease to amaze me, high quality thorough content. A true professional.
The 4k is awesome!
Paul, please do a video on the do's and don'ts after the fact, when you're involved in a self defense shooting, thanks !
Didnt he already?
He doesn't feel comfortable being that forthright. 'Everybody's got opinions, man, and like, I'm just sharing mine, man.' - Paul
Make it out of there alive, exercise the 5th, and get a lawyer.
That's the kind of knowledge you should already have before carrying a firearm.
Watch his previous videos.
Thanks for the video Paul. I watch them all, just don't often comment. I've noticed on many of my firearms that there is a significant difference between cold barrel and warm barrel precision. However, some guns exhibit almost no change from first shot to last. I'd love to see a video on that topic and see if any conclusions can be made.
For my curiosity, does there seem to be any trends by age as to which guns land in which group?
@@bBlaF a lot of it is probably down to metallurgy of the barrel so for example a hot SR-15 would be more accurate than a hot psa
@@bravo6959 Why I'm asking about trends by age.
@@bBlaF Well, I have a rifle I bought in 1985 and a 2 year old rifle that both tend to shoot high when cold, one high-right and one high and ever-so-slightly left. My oldest pistol and another that is roughly 2.5-3 years old shoots the same cold or hot while my newest takes 5 or 6 rounds before the group tightens up. I also have a couple month old PCC that is nearly dead on cold or hot.
@@JeffHammerFishing Does the 1985 open up any more than the others? Specifically a loss of precision rather than accuracy as Paul marked the distinction in this video.
Alright !! The Dan Wesson pistol pac again, love it !
BTW, Paul shooting the mini silhouette targets make the groups look larger. Those groups can be easily covered by his hand.
Love the pistol pack, I only have a 14-2 with the 6" barrel but man those DWs are smooth.
Half-size targets? And here I thought them were just HUGE bullets.
Humbling at 20 yards. (Scary at 50)
Paul started this channel sole so he could one day justify buying one
Hi from Prague, the Czech Republic.
I really love your videos! Thank you (and your team) for all the hard work!
There's the obvious information value to your presentations, but I also find them to be strangely relaxing.
Perfect!
What did we learn; Paul shoots well, therefore the results he exhibited can be a useful benchmark. Practice more, be like Paul. Good pistolcraft.
The REAL reason Paul is using the Dan Wesson pistol pack is he casually wants to flex on the rest of us.
As always, great video and I won’t try any of this at home.
I couldn't try it at home even if I wanted to. I can't even find a Dan Wesson revolver package, let alone use it.
I was just gifted one.
Paul. Thank you for presenting the facts and being a voice of reason. Appreciate you very much.
I just bought one of these recently and am so excited to see it making appearances in your videos. Thanks, Paul!
It strikes me as reasonable, however, that as a target gets progressively further away, the extra barrel length becomes more important for precisely the front sight post issue you mentioned.
Maybe the manufacturer should consider a narrower sight post on the shorter barrels
It's the sight picture front blade vs. rear notch relationship that becomes affected with the sight radius differences. Whatever combination of those two sights gives you better precision, should have better effect on targets at any distance.
I can’t remember the author or the magazine but they did an in depth article on this subject and basically (from what my hazy memory recalls) there was something about the different barrel weights affecting the practical accuracy. When shot from a ransom rest there wasn’t much deviation in group size but impact zone still moved (something about time in barrel). Like I said the memory is foggy and probably 35 or 40 years ago. One of the ways to mitigate the pattern shift is changing/reconfiguring each front sight for each barrel length
I’m guessing the lesson is; 1) sight radius can marginally help a shooter tighten his group. 2) each gun and barrel length should be sighted for that particular ammo and shooter doing the shooting….thank you for sharing…
I love Dan Wesson I have two of them!
Back in the day of Ransom Rests short barrel guns produced accuracy on par to their longer barrel cousins. I have read the claim that bullet stability was established in the first inch.
This was so interesting! I've always just assumed that longer barrel = more accurate. A good reminder to question one's assumptions (in all areas of life).
Thank you Paul for a very good information video once again you are on point with this video. 👍
I suppose the actual sights being used could make a difference here. As you said, the sight picture can get too full or be too empty. European style target sights tend to often be very square and easy to see.
I, as someone with long skinny hands, and a broken pinky knuckle find the grips themselves are maybe the most important to accuracy. Some of these very flat, thinner grips are terrible for me. Can’t hit anything, because they don’t fit my hand.
My hands look like 45's. Big palm, short fingers. Not good for a full-on 1911, if one-handed. OK with two in a clasp.
For you, maybe add thicker grip?
@@jeffreyleonard7210 Huh, I always wanted a 1911, but maybe it isn’t for me. 😢. I got the Sig 226 that has the more modern grip. As much as I like that old 2 piece grip, this one is awesome for me….though maybe not for everyone. Not as sexy to look at either.
I used to have a beretta storm pistol. Either it had a problem, or I sucked on it….but I think it was me. That grip was horrible for me.
I’m target shooting with an old 22 that had a very 1911 grip, but I got target grips now. Absolutely perfect.
@@jimf1964 channel your inner Browning and find yourself a 1911. If not for you, then for John Moses
@@whoshotashleybabbitt4924 😂😂
Paul should get praise for keeping it purely educational. No politics, no bias, just straight to the point of discussion.
Granted, he talks about certain topics simply because of the high demand from commenters, which is understandable.
Hey Paul, great to see you, thanks for another awesome video!
It’s a really interesting discussion, and a good video, thanks guys! I have discovered that sometimes there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of rhyme or reason. I’ve had very short barrels that were extremely accurate for me, and yet I could go to a longer barrel and get keyholing or really screwed up accuracy, and a lot of it seemed to do with the grain weight, the type of rifling, the type of powder… And the velocity, which different calibers would be different anyway. It comes down more to you finding what ammunition functions best in some given barrel. For example, a G26 will like a certain load really well, but it won’t be quite as accurate in a G17. Counterintuitive, but maybe it has to do something with how much spin it is getting, etc. Not that it’s bad or anything, just you kind of have to home in on what grain weight/brand/load for each pistol to find out what it really really likes the best. Really fascinating stuff.
Another Paul presentation to relax me .Day is good .
Paul, I can't help but give you the thumbs up. Your videos are genuine and to the point.
Thank you for educating us with your knowledge and expertise.
Thanks for the video Paul and crew
With standard loads, pretty much just comes down to the sight radius. However, hot loads or lighter than normal bullets may experience less stabilization from short barrels. Now let's see what Paul has to say about it...
Oh my! It isn't raining on you! Pretty and green. Great videos Paul.... always appreciate your help/work!
Although I'm sure each weapon is different, and there are a lot of variables, the .357 magnum is a powerful cartridge. Can we expect barrel length to have more of an effect with a more powerful cartridge; or would we expect the same result regardless of the caliber or load? As usual, this was a very informative video - thanks so much.
.357 is a good metric because revolvers in that caliber that have long barrels and snub nose barrels are common. Whereas more powerful calibers like 44mag even though long barrel is common, snun nose 44mags are rarer. When you go above 44magnum you are typically not talking about handguns but long guns. In long guns such as ar15 type rifles or typical 308 hunting rifles i woud say in general barrel lenght doesn't matter all that much, because you can fit a sbr or extra long barreled gun with the exact same scopes or other optics. In general i woud say accuracy and precision is more up to the shooter or other things like grip and sights, unless talking of very short barrels where the powder won't have time to burn properly or the rifling can't put proper spin onto the projectile.
You can expect it to have more effect with heavier longer bullets at greater ranges. Then again length isn't the only thing that's gonna cause those problems twist rate will as well.
@@alainerookkitsunev5605 44snub nose aren’t that rare. You can even get 500 Winchester magnum in 2”, it’s a carry gun in bear county.
The 357 and 44 are also fairly common in carbines to really push the barrel length.
@@darkdragonsoul99 Thanks, you make a great point. It sure seems the more a bullet spins, the more accurate; and, I would guess the longer barrel should help achieve both higher velocity and more stabilizing spin. It also makes sense that the effect may be more significant with a heavier projectile at a greater distance.
I'm sure if he would have used a .22 the results would have been drastically different, and the groups much smaller and closer to point of aim. Great video!
Really appreciate your scientific approach to these questions, including your acknowledgment of potential confounding factors.
Best firearm info on RUclips presented in the most entertaining way!
Interesting vid. I tried a similar test years ago with a few Smiths, Rugers, and Colts. Funny though, I never thought of the "accuracy as opposed to precision" point you made, although I always referred to precision as "consistency".
If you have an adjustable rear sight, of course, accuracy problem is solved. As far as precision or consistency, particularly in a revolver, there are a number of variables. I have 3 old Smith Model 19s. 2.5", 4" and 6". As far as consistency goes, the 6" is the least of them.....tested with several different 38 special loads from light wadcutters to +P.......on an old Ransom Rest. The 4 incher and the snubby being decidedly more "consistent". Always shot them better offhand as well, BTW..
....but then again, like you, I'm a professional! 🙄. I never fared too well with the old 8" or longer barrels. For me personally, with my aging eyes, I prefer 4 to 6 inchers.
Oddly, I do better with a longer barrel with a .22 pistol. Go figure.
I'm lost and don't know what firearms to choose. For now with a Remington 1858 8" (Pietta, the black version) black powder loaded with 0,445 round balls and 15 grains of FFF at 27 yards (25 meters) one hand, I'm in the 8 to 10 and grouped.
I want (not expensive) a hand gun in 9mm or 45acp that can allow me to do the same. An old man (88) at the range tells that 9mm are not accurate (except the SIG 210) and that the 45acp especialy in a 1911 is nothing comparable. Do you agree ? Ideally a 9mm for the amo price.
Now, I also want a revolver, same thing with a 357 caliber to shoot 38 special wadcutter. I think about the S&W model 19. Do you agree ? Anything better and less expensive ?
Finally, with both of these gun, my objective is to be in the 8 to 10 at 54 yards (50 meters). Feasible ? (I'm in the black with the black powder)
Thanks a lot in advance if ever you reply. Kind regards.
Best thing to do is go to a range where you can shoot rental guns. See what you shoot best. And do this over several trips as you want to be sure of your decision. You might be surprised when you find out the gun you thought you’d like best might not be the case. The best gun for you is the one you can afford and shoot the best. Especially if this is for personal defense.
Since Covid ammo shortage, have practiced more with Ruger sr22, 4" barrel. It shoots very well out to 25yds; supported & unsupported. Have several 9mm, 4" barrel, pistols. Can shoot well with some; not so good with others. Don't understand why that happens.
Wonderful presentation thank you! It makes me so happy to find your channel, very knowledgeable and sophisticated presentation of firearms !
I gonna need that information in like maybe 3 years, but I'm still want to watch it) thank you for your videos, Paul
👍🏻👍🏻Great video Paul….. Thanks
I liked how you did sir explain the difference between precision and accuracy. As someone who did fairly better in physics than other subjects, and as one who liked the subject. I am glad you did! Thanks!
THANKYOU FOR YOUR TIME AND EFFORT WAS GREATLY APPRECIATED
I'm envious that you own a Pistol Pac. I had one decades ago (back when you could almost not give a Dan Wesson revolver away because it wasn't an S&W or a Colt) and found it to be incredibly accurate. This was probably due to being able to set the barrel/cylinder gap consistently each time you installed a barrel. Dan Wesson used to market this setup as one that you could use for anything from off-duty carry to competition, and they weren't wrong. I used the 2.5 inch for off-duty, the 4 inch on duty, and the 6 inch for PPC competition. I never found much actual use for the 8 inch barrel, but it sure did look cool and I knew some guys who used that long barrel for metallic handgun silhouette competition. I never used it for that, but did use an 8 3/8 inch barrel Model 57 in that event, and that long barrel certainly did hang well in the hands and was quite stable. So I imagine the Dan Wesson 8 inch would be just as good. I may have just gotten lucky with mine because I didn't note a lot of point of impact variation between barrels. I typically zeroed for the 6-inch because PPC was the most demanding thing I did with the gun.
Given that a full Pistol Pac in good shape doesn't cost much more than a new model Python, even today they really aren't that expensive for what you are getting. Cool piece of firearms history.
Excellent video Paul. I find all of your videos very well done and informative as well as enjoyable to watch. I have learned a great deal over the years in the information you share with the community. Thank you for all you do to help us in our understanding of all aspects of firearms.
I've been wanting this video for so long. Thank you!
Please perform the Dickens Drill. 10 shots from 40 yards away in 15 seconds (cold)
I thought this was very well done, Paul!
I was able to follow along with everything you were explaining just fine. Well done video.
Interesting to use "Off-hand" as substitute for "average shooter" that's a neat idea.
The steady shift upwards of the groups left me scratching my head...
Also the minimal impact the barrel length has on precision. Seems like it doesn't have that much of an effect until you hit rock bottom with the 2" one...that came as a surprise
Just wanna say i highly value the knowledge you present with your videos, we need more people as educated on firearms as you.
longer sight radis always adds to accuracy but nothing beats practice with your barrel length
Good info Paul! Thanks!
And again, Paul does an amazing job of answering the question. Thank you sir. have a great weekend.
As Always, Best Gun Channel & Presentation Out There & It Looks Like The 4" Barrell Killed 'em Quicker! Thank You.
Good to see you are having good weather in this video. Thanks for another video very informative.
I consider myself as having a reasonable amount of knowledge and experience in this area, without tooting my own tuba too much I'd say quite a bit more than average. But I watch all of Paul's (and others) videos religiously. And yes, a lot of stuff is redundant to me, some of it (not much) I disagree with to a varying degree. But one thing I have to say is that with every video I watch I come away knowing more than I did before. Even with the small amount of stuff I take issue with, the rationale behind it at least gives me more information to consider. Paul is in my opinion required viewing for anyone serious about this. Even the terrible channels with terrible information are worth watching as there's usually some nugget of info in there worth knowing, the trick is to recognize the good from the bad, with Paul that's not something I need to do though.
Very nice demonstration. New vocabulary for today, precision in shooting. Thanks for the video.
Great video! very informative. thanks Paul!
Excellent video and a good education as well. Thanks!
When I got my Sig P320 M17 I was really impressed as to how accurate it was. I later bought a Sig P365XL and didn't think it was as accurate, but since I have had more practice with it, I find I can shoot just about as accurately with it as my P320.
Brilliant presentation as always
Really good video and I like the interchangeable barrels for this demonstration. I think the commentary on sight picture is actually the most important aspect to that. I'm in my 50s and need magnifying safety glasses to see the front sight which leaves the target slightly blurred, I found a happy compromise and have no issues that way.
Learn something new with each video! Thanks Paul.
Love these type of well-controlled experiments
Thanks, Paul, for the interesting subject! Nice job.
Best gun channel PERIOD!!!!!
Thanks, great video, Paul
Friday after work and a Paul harrell video pops up. Gonna be a great weekend
I just did POI Accuracy Testing with NEW .357 Magnum HST & Hydrashok vs various 125 gr & 158 grain loads! Lots of Heavy Winter Clothing .357 Meat & Bone Target Tests coming up!
Love your channel and your videos.
Very informative.
An excellent presentation. I've always believed that iron sights should be fitted to each other and to the gun in question so you don't get things like overfilled sight picture (the 2" did that, he said) or end up with a blade that is hard to get centered in the canyon of your rear notch. Sights you can effectively use and understand that fit the gun in question go a long way for accuracy in my personal experience.
Wish I could shoot like you. Love all the Knowledge you share .
Thanks for the video!
When I first learned to shoot, the police instructors let us shoot revolvers with 4", 6", and 2" barrels. The selection of revolvers wasn't nearly as uniform as you have in this video. I felt that I could hit the target and get a good group much more easily with the 6" barrel revolvers than I could with the 4" barrel revolvers. When I bought a revolver, I bought one with a 6" barrel. I now wonder how much of the difference might have been something other than the barrel length. Maybe the grips on those 6" barrel guns were just better fits for me.
Thanks Paul, good video.
"A pistol brace on that Dan Wesson would make this video go much faster."
- Congressman David Cicilline
Thank you Paul for another thorough presentation. As this pistol pack is included in more demonstrations, would we be able to see a close-up of the sights and sight pictures to see what you're seeing after these barrel changes?
Something not pointed out but that is intuitive to most is how the angle of deflection incurred by a hand movement is proportional to the length of the barrel. Or in simpler terms, moving your wrist, say, 5 degrees, will cause the front sight to move much farther on the 8" barrel than on the 2" barrel.
Naturally, then, it is much easier to detect and to fine-tune your adjustments with a longer barrel. With the 8" barrel, 5 degrees will throw the front sight completely out. With the 2" barrel you'll probably still have a fair amount of the front sight visible through the rear sight.
You can experiment with this pretty easily at home. All you need is a couple of sticks or similar. Hold one out at arm's length and try to hold it 'dead straight'. Then try again with a longer one or a shorter one. You'll instantly notice how easy it is to tell when a long stick is a little off centre, but with the short stick it'll have a much larger margin for error
I am anxiously awaiting for the Thanksgiving special!!!
I remember decades ago someone did a test with a scoped Ruger Super Redhawk. They used the same barrel just cut an inch off every test. If I recall accuracy didn't seem to be effected.
Lmao, at the end i bet it looked just like that ruger with the one inch barrel and no front sight that they sell for some reason.
Paul's Dan Wesson 357 Pistol Pack presentations are cool
Great video very informative as usual. I do wish you had done a 50 yard or maybe even a 75 yard if you didn't see much change. My guess is you would've seen significant change at 75 yards with the 2 1/2 inch barrel practically being useless. Of course you don't carry a 2 1/2 inch barrel to shoot 75 yards. Love the pistol and .357 and .40 are my favorite calibers.
As always, quite an educational video.
The first centerfire handgun I ever shot was a friend-of-the-family's Dan Wesson model 14 .357 magnum. I inherited that gun many years later in very poor condition and basically rebuilt it, replacing several internal parts. I only have the 4" barrel. It shoots very, very well with 125 gr magnum ammo. Well, the "precision" is there but the "accuracy" is a bit off as it shoots high and left. I've thought about backing out the barrel just a tiny bit and seeing if that would shift windage some but as for height, those fixed sights mean I just have to learn to adjust. I keep saying I'm going to make some custom grips for it, maybe find a 2 1/2 barrel and sleeve, etc. It's just a nice, solid gun with a lot of sentimental value.
Thanks for bringing this topic to light. I have been trying, and proving, to people that it is sight radius not barrel length that makes the difference. And the type of sights as well. A S & W model 36 with a groove cut in the top strap will be "less accurate" than one with a nice set of sights like the Dan Wesson. Keep up the great videos.
Thanks Paul
I always learn from your videos, this time I think due to the size of your cardboard backer for your targets it was moving enough in the wind to affect your groups.....as always I appreciate your videos along with the educational value of them
Thanks for the info, Paul
Great stuff!
Excellent video, I always enjoy your gun logic! 👍
Great demo.
I think it needs more variation in ammo I suspect that with an ammo this pistol likes more you will see more difference.
Thanks so much for doing these two videos. I have a GP100 and a Ruger Redhawk both with 4" barrels and even though they are very accurate I thought I had made a mistake as I thought that a 6" barrel in both would give me much higher velocities and much more precision. These two videos have debunked that completely!! Saved me a lot of money lol. I do love the 4" revolvers. I'd love a Colt Python but definitely can't afford that!!
I am hesitating between getting 4 or 6 inch revolver. All the content on youtube that I have checked comes to one conclusion that accuracy wise 4 and 6 super close to each other and velocity wise 6 shoots between 70 to 100 ft per second faster than 4. So, 6 has marginal advantage over 4 in terms of performance but 4 wins all them way in terms of general convenience and this factor has more weight kind of supporting the idea to go with a 4 inch model. Agree?!
Nice work Paul.
Thanks for making the Handgun Barrel Length Accuracy video.
Paul, you are not an 'average' shooter; and regardless, to do an "accuracy" test/demonstration you have to remove as many variables as possible. I'm not complaining, I'm just stating the obvious, and you know it. Overall, this presentation is professional and useful; the key takeaways were solidly delivered. Thanks again.
The accuracy of Paul's video is definitely the precision we need!!!
I observed POI deviations with the DW 44 mag pack I had. Every time I changed from one barrel to the next, I had to sight in. They are fine wheel guns and well made but that is the nature of this firearm. TY for sharing!
If only Paul had access to that Joker Revolver with the cartoonishly long barrel or at least that Heritage Rough Rider with the 16 inch barrel
You mean the Magnum Research BFR?
Very informative. Thx👍
Hello, Mr Harrell
That you for the video, and all others - I'm a big fan, and I greatly respect and appreciate your method of presenting your knowledge and experience.
Because of that, I'd like to ask if you have any advise on how to introduce children to firearms. Specifically, how would you begin to teach a child about firearm respect, safety, and proficiency?
Thank you again for sharing your experience with all of us. As a long-time viewer and fan, it's been very much appreciated.
Check out our presentation on gins as Christmas presents.
I think it will be helpful.
If not, please contact me again.
Thank you, Sir - It definitely was!
My takeaway would be that for typical engagement ranges for a handgun, 4-6" barrels seem to be adequate and not a significant compromise over the longer barrels. Of course if a optic is added then the longer barrel would able to be exploited more.
Great video As always
Yay!!!! new camera quality! congrats!!!!
Thanks for the 2.5" barrel. Makes me feel better about how off I am with a Ruger Alaskan beyond 15 yards.
Well done Sir.
Another great vid!!!
Yes, we should not assume that a shorter barrel will print higher and we should not use the terms always and never, but 98% of the time a shorter barrel will shoot higher than a long barrel if the bore axis is centered on the target. The reason is simple physics and is for two main reasons. First, most shorter barrel pistols of the same type are lighter than their longer barrel cousin so there will be more recoil. Second, since the mass moment of inertia is less with a short barrel pistol, the pistol will rotate upwards faster than will its long barrel cousin. So, combine greater recoil force with greater rotational acceleration and you will hit higher almost all the time with a short barrel pistol than a long barrel given the same bore axis alignment. Now, in the real world, we adjust our sights so that the point of impact is the same regardless of barrel length and this causes many to think that barrel length doesn’t make a difference. It does make a difference, but we can remove that difference with sight adjustment.