I only had a dive with a group of russians in Egypt. They all used nitrox the days before, but when we went to the Salem Express, they changed back to compressed air. The only reason you would trade off the added bottom time of nitrox is if you plan to go deeper than 40m (Nitrox 32 at 1.6 partial o2 pressure). But as 40m was the boat's fixed depth limit that got them instantly on the dive masters' watchlist. They earned themselves a babysitter DM.
On the wall off Cozumel in very strong downward currents I got nitrogen narcosis on air at 40-45 meters to the point where i seriously considered taking out my reg. If i had gone another 10 meters I would have been unconscious. i panicked, as a result of the profound disorientation. Luckily I ended the dive buddy breathing at a safety stop. I came up coughing blood anyway. I was very lucky, according to the doc at the chamber, not to have died of decompression sickness. Diving = not a joke.
Well it's not just Russians who dive with only one torch during a cave dive. I once led a cave diving expedition in Australia (I was not diving but only to take them to the sump of the cave safely) and just before the dive (only one person diving) he realised he had left his dive torch behind!!! Can you believe this? 2km into the cave and realises he has left his ONLY UW torch behind. I had as several backup lights and one good quality Dive torch in my caving bag, in fact it was my backup dive torch.
noantsproductions: I understand that! Yuri Lipski video is from the "Sacred Truth" documentary and GUE segment is from "Idiosyncrasies of Russian Diving". There are two different documentaries.
noantsproductions: Yes, it will be aired on Russian TV on the 3d of January 2009. Part 3 is not "just a PR video" but an integral part of the part of the documentary. Just wonder what makes you think that's a "PR video"?
Overseasmedia:Hi Elena, Thank`s for your offer. I really appreciate it, but after a severe accident I can`t dive anymore :-( Greetings from germany, Rainer
Blazerelf: Also Vadislav was not "tech 1 diver" he was a recreational PADI diver, they all were PADI O/W divers performing the advanced O/W course at Elphinestone.
As an instructor who has taught in Egypt, and dived these reefs many times, I have to say that in the centre if we arrived in the morning and found we had a group of Russian or Polish divers we knew we were in for a tough day. We would always have a Russian speaker onboard, but the truth is the divers never seemed to take any notice of the briefing. We would always tell all the divers to stay together (particularly at Elphinstone) and follow the lead. We'd hit the water and they would scatter! This was not the fault of the teaching, but IMHO the fault of the society which seemed to suggest that following the rules was for pussies! Whilst I never had any fatalities or serious injuries - I seldom had a good experience
noantsproductions#2: since we have been talking about Russian divers and their fatal accidents, we came to the conslusion that those accidents were the result of the poor dive training received by the deseased. I had to offer an alternative training system that from my POV will guarantee no deep air and solo dives amongst their students. I just don't know any other training agency with the same standards, if I did, I'd certainly mention them too.
rainermb: Hi there, actualy I had the same experience with PADI and even TDI is not that good to be honest with you.Were sponsoring a week diving in Hughada on board of Tala liveabord (6th -13th of October)the basic scuba divers trained by PADI will be offered to have a 4-5 days of "funadamntal" or "essential" training free of charge, we can take 4 O/W divers with us on the 6th of Septemer, please let me know if any of you guys are interested, cheers, Elena
I'm a relatively new PADI trained diver (AOW), and I can say that the PADI course taught us sound (if a little rigid) guidelines that would prevent just about all the fuckups in this scenario. My friends are mostly PADI trained, and I think everyone I dive with would know better than to descend without the DM or finish up at 40m on 21% without a depth gauge or computer. That's idiocy by any agency's standards. This didn't occur because PADI's standards are lacking, they just weren't followed.
scubazmei: Not all of them, I didn't have enough evidence that any of those divers "were drunk" before the dive or were drinking. So I preferred not to speculate on that issue without a clear evidence.
kfotoprm: Hi there, I don't know about money making but I agree that PADI O/W is not a sufficient dive course, they have to reconsider the dive standards and basic skills requirenments.
For the Divers that think they are good enough to dive deep on compressed air i would like to say this: It has nothing to do with beeing a good diver. Recent studies i read said that you do not get "used" to the effects of nitrogen narcosis. Nor can you get "used" to the risk of oxygen toxicity. You think you feel less nitrogen narcosis after a while. But the brain has the same detrimental effects you had the first time. Air is NOT made for deep diving. And it is definately not a save option.
Blazerelf: There were 5 divers all together: 3Russians (Elena, Vladislav, Dmitri) 1 Dutch guy Michel and one Egyptian guide (I can't recall his name, but it should be on the net) Vladislav swam back to the sure, the 4 divers wen missing on Elphinestone reef and there bodies were never found.
sundaydiver: So where are the errors, I am looking forward for you reply. I think I know more about diving than you but I will appreciate your comments, so.. were they are?
soccom8341576: Yes, I think PADI has to improve their safety skills. . But it depends on what of diving you're involved into and how much do you love diving. I believe that once you're cerified by PADI as an O/W, the best way to fill the gaps is to do GUE Fundamentals course.
bacaca88: That was not my intention to make anyone feel sorry for Russian divers nor I wished to say that anyone should rescue irresponsible divers. But sometimes bad things happen to good and responsible divers and you shouldn't judge how good they are upon their nationality. It would be very wrong.
Shadapaga: My advice is very simple: there is no reason to become a"solo diver". Your buddy is your back up "brain", and it would have helped a lot to have a buddy during such a challenging dive.
noantsproductions: #1 I just asked because I like to speak with my audience and I like to know their opinion regarding the videos, so worries. That's not all about GUE, but its training, that I ppersonally consider to be the best in regards of the dive safety at the moment.
@cay311 That's why my film is called the "Idiosyncrasies of Russian Diving" , it's very typical for some Russian divers and swimmers to gt drunk before a dive, sorry.
dmitriviento: Sorry for the late reply! Sure "every amily DOES have its... skeleton n the closet". I am Russina and I was making the film about RUSSIAN divers, I don't mean to say they are the "worst", I'm just investigating why ther were too many trgic acidents in 2006-2007
sundaydiver: I did scripted the movie together with my partner. I'm a DIR diver, my partner (a TV reporter Boris Koltsov) is a non-DIR diver. I personally think that the solo diver made a mistake, but he doesn't think so. So I had to compromise. Regarding the "recreational diving below 30 m" I'm afaraid that you're mistaken.
Of course, but safety is redundancy with critical aspects of your gear. The odds of two flashlights going out is essentially nil. Doing a cave dive with only one light is pushing the risk envelop way to far. If the light goes out you will most probably die. Period.
Also, I do respect the french CMAS system, and their rigorous training program, but they do endorse dives to 60m (200') on air, which probably isn't what Russian divers in the Red Sea need to be hearing. Not saying deep air is necessarily dangerous for a skilled responsible diver, but this video isn't about safe responsible divers is it?
Ask every instructor who need to train Russian guys. It is the most dangerous training- They are looked for exterme dives without any experience and think that if they pay for divings they can received all they want
Lots of Russians who come to Egypt for holidays are middle class. Living in a country that is overburdened with bureaucracy and corruption, they honestly believe any rules can be bent of you pay enough, have powerful friends or can intimidate well. So, with this mentality they come to Egypt and go diving. Unfortunately for them, sea can't either be bullied, nor it cares about money or wealth. It just punishes those that don't respect it.
MPG350: You're dead right, it could be avoided and that was the bad choice of the divers to do those dives. There are a lot fo them diving this way in the Red Sea unfortunately.
a very simple example is this what would happen if your speeding with ur car and run a red light another car from the side traffic would hit you and u might die or whatever when u dont fallow important rules its extremely risky specially when it comes to people's life's
I'm not saying you wouldn't get more in depth training with another certification agency, but I do believe that any PADI open water student who'd just got as far as reading OW manual and watching the video would know better than any of the muppets in these incidents. Either an instructor has, as you say, just taken their money and signed them off, or they simply sat in class and didn't take in any information, or they chose to ignore all the safety directives anyway.
I agree with you. It`s just making money!! I finished the course with PADI in 4 days. Actually I learned nothing at all. Back in germany I went to SSI for three month to get my OWD!
"the blame lie(s) with the divers themselves, in the fatal traits of the ever-impulsive Russian character and thirst for reckless adventure" Plain and simple... It may sound racist, but check the statistics of deaths vs. nationalities here; it's not genetic, it's cultural. I live in Dahab and work as a diver. Whilst I like (love) many Russians here I can say from first hand experience (Arch on single tanks) that many Russian recreational Instructors and Divemasters will readily break standards, Europeans seem much more 'bound' by their own inhibitions on breaking rules. This is a MASSIVE generalisation I know, but the trend is true and there are obvious exceptions on both sides. Diving deep is fine, just get trained, don't break standards and use the proper equipment. Not having a back up torch when you are a qualified Tec diver and you're in a cave is just stupid; the Russian Course Director who is in this video that took him into the cave knowing that his diver had no back up light should be locked up.
hmmm... wonder what it feels like ti dive under dark brown colored water... kidding aside, i'd still prefer wreck diving over this one. this is too much for me, call me a chicken but i value life and family as much as i value recreational stuff...
Ozzy210: Hi there, I completely gree with you,there will be always stupid people al around the world, it doesn't have to do anything with their nationality, however Russians do have their very specific "character". Trust me. I am Russian.
@cpuneronet Haha, well I don't think its fair to apply this to all Russians, just that their cultural background lends itself to some attitudes that are not safe in conjunction with diving. Other cultures/activities are like this too, classic case is Singaporean culture and and flying as evidenced by Singapore Airlines shocking safety record prior to this decade. That has largely been fixed by very stringent training, but the point remains. Do it by the book!
I'm not too worried about this. It's just nature removing unfitting creatures. To fix this, you should first fix the way of living in russia for example, where they learn this kind of behavior their whole life. I'm not racist but that's the way it is. Of course not every one of them are like that, but many. But that's not the case every time, I'm sure.
Alot of people are blaming PADI training I see! that's a bit unfair, fools are fools no matter who they're trained by. I'm a PADI pro and I agree that PADI is a very money driven society but you can't blame them for dickheads! I've met quite a few morons from BSAC and many other organisations!
that is the problem wright there, responsible diver!if you are beginer it not your place to be responcible, couse you do not know how thins workm it is you INSTRUCTOR that has to let you know that beginers have no placediving that deep no matter how much money you put on the table. IT IS THEIR FAULT!why do you think that padi is so well spread, couse beginers are chasing depts and they know where to go to to get them, couse nowhere else can you begin diving that deep that soon!
Who scripted this movie? Obviously not anybody with a clear knowledge of diving. Full of errors. "All those divers, with the possible exception of the solo diver, made mistakes"? In reality, the solo diver, too, made a mistake. "No recreational diving below 30 meters"? Where did this "rule" come from? Someone just made this up and presents it as fact.
I only had a dive with a group of russians in Egypt. They all used nitrox the days before, but when we went to the Salem Express, they changed back to compressed air. The only reason you would trade off the added bottom time of nitrox is if you plan to go deeper than 40m (Nitrox 32 at 1.6 partial o2 pressure). But as 40m was the boat's fixed depth limit that got them instantly on the dive masters' watchlist. They earned themselves a babysitter DM.
+Elena Konstantinou, thanks for sharing :)
Nice clip, good job! I would love to see the full documentary. Cheers, Jonny
On the wall off Cozumel in very strong downward currents I got nitrogen narcosis on air at 40-45 meters to the point where i seriously considered taking out my reg. If i had gone another 10 meters I would have been unconscious. i panicked, as a result of the profound disorientation. Luckily I ended the dive buddy breathing at a safety stop. I came up coughing blood anyway. I was very lucky, according to the doc at the chamber, not to have died of decompression sickness. Diving = not a joke.
Well it's not just Russians who dive with only one torch during a cave dive. I once led a cave diving expedition in Australia (I was not diving but only to take them to the sump of the cave safely) and just before the dive (only one person diving) he realised he had left his dive torch behind!!! Can you believe this? 2km into the cave and realises he has left his ONLY UW torch behind. I had as several backup lights and one good quality Dive torch in my caving bag, in fact it was my backup dive torch.
noantsproductions: I understand that! Yuri Lipski video is from the "Sacred Truth" documentary and GUE segment is from "Idiosyncrasies of Russian Diving". There are two different documentaries.
bogomolov: I completely agree with you, than you very much for the comment!!!
noantsproductions: Yes, it will be aired on Russian TV on the 3d of January 2009. Part 3 is not "just a PR video" but an integral part of the part of the documentary. Just wonder what makes you think that's a "PR video"?
Overseasmedia:Hi Elena, Thank`s for your offer. I really appreciate it, but after a severe accident I can`t dive anymore :-(
Greetings from germany, Rainer
Why does the camera quality look older than 2000s?
thats why i never wear a weightbelt with a plastic buckle, had them fail on me before and the weightbelt just slipps off, lucky i caught it.
Do you think there is something wrong with how PADI courses are designed? If so, what can one do to fill the gaps?
Blazerelf: Also Vadislav was not "tech 1 diver" he was a recreational PADI diver, they all were PADI O/W divers performing the advanced O/W course at Elphinestone.
As an instructor who has taught in Egypt, and dived these reefs many times, I have to say that in the centre if we arrived in the morning and found we had a group of Russian or Polish divers we knew we were in for a tough day. We would always have a Russian speaker onboard, but the truth is the divers never seemed to take any notice of the briefing. We would always tell all the divers to stay together (particularly at Elphinstone) and follow the lead. We'd hit the water and they would scatter! This was not the fault of the teaching, but IMHO the fault of the society which seemed to suggest that following the rules was for pussies! Whilst I never had any fatalities or serious injuries - I seldom had a good experience
RockinS2: What does Kwll mean?
in 4:19 did all of them died or teh 1 that swimed alone survived?
noantsproductions#2: since we have been talking about Russian divers and their fatal accidents, we came to the conslusion that those accidents were the result of the poor dive training received by the deseased. I had to offer an alternative training system that from my POV will guarantee no deep air and solo dives amongst their students. I just don't know any other training agency with the same standards, if I did, I'd certainly mention them too.
rainermb: Hi there, actualy I had the same experience with PADI and even TDI is not that good to be honest with you.Were sponsoring a week diving in Hughada on board of Tala liveabord (6th -13th of October)the basic scuba divers trained by PADI will be offered to have a 4-5 days of "funadamntal" or "essential" training free of charge, we can take 4 O/W divers with us on the 6th of Septemer, please let me know if any of you guys are interested, cheers, Elena
I'm a relatively new PADI trained diver (AOW), and I can say that the PADI course taught us sound (if a little rigid) guidelines that would prevent just about all the fuckups in this scenario. My friends are mostly PADI trained, and I think everyone I dive with would know better than to descend without the DM or finish up at 40m on 21% without a depth gauge or computer. That's idiocy by any agency's standards. This didn't occur because PADI's standards are lacking, they just weren't followed.
scubazmei: Not all of them, I didn't have enough evidence that any of those divers "were drunk" before the dive or were drinking. So I preferred not to speculate on that issue without a clear evidence.
kfotoprm: Hi there, I don't know about money making but I agree that PADI O/W is not a sufficient dive course, they have to reconsider the dive standards and basic skills requirenments.
AntiKoloEmo: Not sure about "водка фор евер " in those cases. However I heard that Russians do like to drink vodka before the dive.
For the Divers that think they are good enough to dive deep on compressed air i would like to say this: It has nothing to do with beeing a good diver. Recent studies i read said that you do not get "used" to the effects of nitrogen narcosis. Nor can you get "used" to the risk of oxygen toxicity. You think you feel less nitrogen narcosis after a while. But the brain has the same detrimental effects you had the first time. Air is NOT made for deep diving. And it is definately not a save option.
@wilbuckingham The narrotaro is saying the right thingm, it was 90 METERS, NOT "feet"!
Blazerelf: There were 5 divers all together: 3Russians (Elena, Vladislav, Dmitri) 1 Dutch guy Michel and one Egyptian guide (I can't recall his name, but it should be on the net) Vladislav swam back to the sure, the 4 divers wen missing on Elphinestone reef and there bodies were never found.
Blagoff: Nice one... but what does have Chehcnya to do with diving??!
Damn.... I don't even dive,but I have common sense. You don't go to space in
a broken suit,pretty simple.
sundaydiver: So where are the errors, I am looking forward for you reply. I think I know more about diving than you but I will appreciate your comments, so.. were they are?
diverjonny: Hey there Jonny! I will post you the DVD as soon as it's released! Thanks for the comment
Backtoback67: Hi there... What do you mean??
soccom8341576: Yes, I think PADI has to improve their safety skills. . But it depends on what of diving you're involved into and how much do you love diving. I believe that once you're cerified by PADI as an O/W, the best way to fill the gaps is to do GUE Fundamentals course.
bacaca88: That was not my intention to make anyone feel sorry for Russian divers nor I wished to say that anyone should rescue irresponsible divers. But sometimes bad things happen to good and responsible divers and you shouldn't judge how good they are upon their nationality. It would be very wrong.
MPG350: Sure! That's what we're talking about in the film.
Shadapaga: My advice is very simple: there is no reason to become a"solo diver". Your buddy is your back up "brain", and it would have helped a lot to have a buddy during such a challenging dive.
noantsproductions: #1 I just asked because I like to speak with my audience and I like to know their opinion regarding the videos, so worries. That's not all about GUE, but its training, that I ppersonally consider to be the best in regards of the dive safety at the moment.
highdesertjim: What kind of "facts" do you MEAN I should "learn"?
damnitjimimonlyadr: I am very sorry for their loss too and I wish it never happen again.
+jolinator, Thanks for the tip. I will never buy a cheap weight belt with a plastic buckle. I don't trust my life to cheap gear.
@cay311 That's why my film is called the "Idiosyncrasies of Russian Diving" , it's very typical for some Russian divers and swimmers to gt drunk before a dive, sorry.
VasilicaCascaval : No,no they have never been found... unfortunately
dmitriviento: Sorry for the late reply! Sure "every amily DOES have its... skeleton n the closet". I am Russina and I was making the film about RUSSIAN divers, I don't mean to say they are the "worst", I'm just investigating why ther were too many trgic acidents in 2006-2007
damnitjimimonlyadr: they do drink vodka, however I had no evidence pointing those guys had anything to do with vodka.
sundaydiver: I did scripted the movie together with my partner. I'm a DIR diver, my partner (a TV reporter Boris Koltsov) is a non-DIR diver. I personally think that the solo diver made a mistake, but he doesn't think so. So I had to compromise. Regarding the "recreational diving below 30 m" I'm afaraid that you're mistaken.
@omfgsmurf
so if PADI sucks what would be better to teach beginners how to Dive owd???
pimpis70: No, they didn't have any vodka and cigarettes in that case.
noantsproductions: Sure! I will send you both!
Of course, but safety is redundancy with critical aspects of your gear. The odds of two flashlights going out is essentially nil. Doing a cave dive with only one light is pushing the risk envelop way to far. If the light goes out you will most probably die. Period.
damnitjimimonlyadr : for which "loss"??
The narrator says "meters" when he means feet. Very confusing . . .
Also, I do respect the french CMAS system, and their rigorous training program, but they do endorse dives to 60m (200') on air, which probably isn't what Russian divers in the Red Sea need to be hearing. Not saying deep air is necessarily dangerous for a skilled responsible diver, but this video isn't about safe responsible divers is it?
Jolinator: As you seethere are some individuals who prefer to dive with 1 light.
Hi Elena -- do you have a link to the full documentary? really want to watch but cant find anyway!
Ask every instructor who need to train Russian guys. It is the most dangerous training- They are looked for exterme dives without any experience and think that if they pay for divings they can received all they want
They were "experienced cave divers" but didn't bring a backup light??
Lots of Russians who come to Egypt for holidays are middle class. Living in a country that is overburdened with bureaucracy and corruption, they honestly believe any rules can be bent of you pay enough, have powerful friends or can intimidate well. So, with this mentality they come to Egypt and go diving. Unfortunately for them, sea can't either be bullied, nor it cares about money or wealth. It just punishes those that don't respect it.
MPG350: You're dead right, it could be avoided and that was the bad choice of the divers to do those dives. There are a lot fo them diving this way in the Red Sea unfortunately.
WHO DIVES 80M with 1 light, are you insane???????.their is training, then there is common sense.
Alot of these deaths could have been avoided, 90m on regular air is a death wish.
a very simple example is this what would happen if your speeding with ur car and run a red light another car from the side traffic would hit you and u might die or whatever when u dont fallow important rules its extremely risky specially when it comes to people's life's
paronfisk: Possibly, this film was about Russian divers.
thegirl44: No,no That was "Alyona"
the girl44: Nope.. still traveling....
I'm not saying you wouldn't get more in depth training with another certification agency, but I do believe that any PADI open water student who'd just got as far as reading OW manual and watching the video would know better than any of the muppets in these incidents. Either an instructor has, as you say, just taken their money and signed them off, or they simply sat in class and didn't take in any information, or they chose to ignore all the safety directives anyway.
I agree with you. It`s just making money!! I finished the course with PADI in 4 days. Actually I learned nothing at all. Back in germany I went to SSI for three month to get my OWD!
If a Russian diver wants to be a one man buddy team, that's fine with me. Just so long as I'm not their buddy.
AntiKoloEmo: Hmmm... drinking blood...Are you a sportsman?
@jrspl : Exactly!
SHUT UP!
40 m is limit 1 bottle padi deep specialty advance nitrox then
oneiropagides: sorry , I must ave lost it, what club we wre talking about, please remind me....
but wait a minute!!! that 5 floating at elphistone, they are dead???? i am sure they heve been found floating nexy day!! no????
once you drown you soon become negatively buoyant, and sink like a stone
"the blame lie(s) with the divers themselves, in the fatal traits of the ever-impulsive Russian character and thirst for reckless adventure"
Plain and simple...
It may sound racist, but check the statistics of deaths vs. nationalities here; it's not genetic, it's cultural. I live in Dahab and work as a diver. Whilst I like (love) many Russians here I can say from first hand experience (Arch on single tanks) that many Russian recreational Instructors and Divemasters will readily break standards, Europeans seem much more 'bound' by their own inhibitions on breaking rules.
This is a MASSIVE generalisation I know, but the trend is true and there are obvious exceptions on both sides.
Diving deep is fine, just get trained, don't break standards and use the proper equipment. Not having a back up torch when you are a qualified Tec diver and you're in a cave is just stupid; the Russian Course Director who is in this video that took him into the cave knowing that his diver had no back up light should be locked up.
texasman1985: Not all of them are very "stupid", but there are many of them who are, that's true.
AntiKoloEmo: "Osobennosti nacional'nogo Daivinga".
chaz567123456789 : So what's the reason for a "solo- diving"? ?!
muslimahkiki20: Hi! Yes, you're right, it's all really very sad what's going on there...
@lukey8661: Then these organizations should stop training fools:))
hmmm... wonder what it feels like ti dive under dark brown colored water... kidding aside, i'd still prefer wreck diving over this one. this is too much for me, call me a chicken but i value life and family as much as i value recreational stuff...
Ozzy210: Hi there, I completely gree with you,there will be always stupid people al around the world, it doesn't have to do anything with their nationality, however Russians do have their very specific "character". Trust me. I am Russian.
@cpuneronet Haha, well I don't think its fair to apply this to all Russians, just that their cultural background lends itself to some attitudes that are not safe in conjunction with diving. Other cultures/activities are like this too, classic case is Singaporean culture and and flying as evidenced by Singapore Airlines shocking safety record prior to this decade. That has largely been fixed by very stringent training, but the point remains. Do it by the book!
I'm not too worried about this. It's just nature removing unfitting creatures.
To fix this, you should first fix the way of living in russia for example, where they learn this kind of behavior their whole life.
I'm not racist but that's the way it is.
Of course not every one of them are like that, but many.
But that's not the case every time, I'm sure.
Alot of people are blaming PADI training I see! that's a bit unfair, fools are fools no matter who they're trained by. I'm a PADI pro and I agree that PADI is a very money driven society but you can't blame them for dickheads! I've met quite a few morons from BSAC and many other organisations!
muslimahkiki20: Watch movies with "pleasant" music, we're discussing quite "unpleasant and pretty scary subject" here.
Fact of the story: Never dive with a russian!
that is the problem wright there, responsible diver!if you are beginer it not your place to be responcible, couse you do not know how thins workm it is you INSTRUCTOR that has to let you know that beginers have no placediving that deep no matter how much money you put on the table. IT IS THEIR FAULT!why do you think that padi is so well spread, couse beginers are chasing depts and they know where to go to to get them, couse nowhere else can you begin diving that deep that soon!
Who scripted this movie? Obviously not anybody with a clear knowledge of diving. Full of errors. "All those divers, with the possible exception of the solo diver, made mistakes"? In reality, the solo diver, too, made a mistake. "No recreational diving below 30 meters"? Where did this "rule" come from? Someone just made this up and presents it as fact.
They need to learn basic science in diving