Elizabeth Holmes Case | Personality & Theranos Fraud
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
- This video answers the question: Can I analyze the Elizabeth Holmes (Theranos Fraud) case? What are the mental health and personality characteristics associated with the reported behavior of someone like Elizabeth Holmes?
HBO Documentary: The Inventor: Out For Blood in Silicon Valley (2019)
Herper, M. (2016). From Hero to Zero. Forbes, 197(8), 101. Retrieved from search.ebscohost.com.mylibrary...
WEISUL, K. (2015). Will the Next Steve Jobs Be a Woman? Inc, 37(8), 71. Retrieved from search.ebscohost.com.mylibrary...
LaWell, M. (2015). 11 Reasons Why Elizabeth Holmes is the Manufacturing Technology Leader of 2015. (cover story). Industry Week/IW, 264(8), 10. Retrieved from search.ebscohost.com.mylibrary...
Blood-test firm charged with fraud. (2018). TCE: The Chemical Engineer, (922), 16.
Narcissism:
There are two types of narcissism: With grandiose narcissism we see characteristics like being extroverted, socially bold, self-confident, having a superficial charm, being resistant to criticism, and being callous and unemotional. Vulnerable narcissism is characterized by shame, anger, aggression, hypersensitivity, a tendency to be introverted, defensive, avoidant, anxious, depressed, socially awkward, and shy.
Psychopathy:
There are two types of psychopathy: Factor 1 (primary, interpersonal affective) and Factor 2 (lifestyle, antisocial) psychopathy. Factor 1 psychopathy has characteristics like grandiosity, pathological lying, manipulation, a superficial charm, callous, unemotional, low neuroticism and lack of guilt or remorse. Factor 2 psychopathy has a parasitic lifestyle, being prone to boredom, sensation seeking, impulsivity, irresponsibility, a failure to have long term goals, poor behavioral controls, and criminal versatility.
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I'm a pathologist and hospital lab director. The online community of lab professionals was skeptical of Holmes's claims from the very beginning. This was widely discussed for years on a lab listserv with over 2500 subscribers, so it was no secret. It appears that the members of Theranos's board, none of whom had any background in medicine, lived in an information bubble. If any of them had consulted a medical technologist or clinical pathologist, red flags would have been raised right away. But secure in their own ignorance and arrogance, they lost their entire investment and were made to look like fools.
Interesting. You would think that 'sophisticated' investors would want, and insist on, proof of concept before getting involved so deeply in Theranos. The more I see things like this as a lawyer, the more I an convinced a lot of so called experts are just winging it, while real experts go unnoticed.
In the UK the population were sneered at for losing faith in "experts" during the referendum on the EU debates. Experts are humans with all the flaws that entails. What is interesting here, to me, is the unmet need for health monitoring, and Elizabeth Holmes actually had a great vision. Reading the book I don't understand the obsession with such tiny blood samples. This was a great idea linking up different tech and I bet someone else will eventually run with it.
@@sgordon8123 I think the idea behind tiny blood samples is to avoid the conventional process of drawing vials of blood, which require storage, and manual handling for analysis. The "lab on a chip concept" would expedite and economize laboratory testing. (Sorry if you already knew this. Just thought I would respond to a possible question.)
Exactly correct!
How in the world did Walgreens fall for it?
@@azaz911c you need to understand the basic laboratory procedures, quality control is everything; manual handling is required to verify any possible mistakes prior to arrival in lab (mislabelling, missing information, etc) and no machine can replace human at that stage; then even the most sophisticated analysers need certain quantity of sample, especially if multiple tests a required. Storage for samples (usually 2 weeks) is essential for quality control and patients safety (sometimes retesting is needed or sample need sending for analysis to another lab for confirmation of results). 2.5ml paediatric samples are handled by labs and that's enough for testing but it's not possible to run multiple tests from a single drop of blood.
I think Holmes and Zuckerberg were assembled in the same factory.
Similar entitled upbringing.
Lol 😆
Best comment hahaha
Wad Zuckerberg also a psychopath?
😂😂😂😂
As a laboratory technologist who worked for many years in a University Hospital system’s Critical Care Laboratory and took that work, knowledge and caring into a further career as an RN - Dr. Grande, how could you possibly NOT believe that intentionally putting innocent people at great physical risk with false lab results isn’t the work of a seriously disturbed individual? Elizabeth Holmes knew about using mainstream-manufactured lab instruments (like those made by Siemens) to turn out results her consumers were supposed to believe Theranos “Mini Lab” or “Edison” machines were responsible for. When patients went to places they trusted like Safeway or Walgreens, their blood was routinely sent to other labs for analysis. When Mini Lab Theranos instruments got something wrong and patient’s blood thinning medication dosages were changed - can you agree that could produce life-threatening results? None of these events were unknown to Elizabeth Holmes. I have watched you frequently and listened to your analysis Dr. Grande, but you totally blew it on your watered-down evaluation of Ms. Holmes. She’s a seriously disturbed individual who took a deliberate turn toward the dark side when she chose to ignore putting blameless patients at risk with her maniacal quest to become the med-tech world’s version of the next Steve Jobs.
The “powerful” older men who supported her, even abandoning one of their grandsons to support her, were seduced and willingly blinded by her flattery. It is a case of narcissism on all sides. She has no conscience.
Fools and their money are soon parted. She blew them? Well, that was one expensive job! :D
@@piotrd.4850 lol
I call that greed..
Fair play to her ..if they were stupid enough to believe her well then more fools them ..
A brilliant Oxford trained chemical engineer committed suicide because of her and his fear of losing his job there.
I have no training in this field whatsoever, but my gut tells me that she has crazy eyes.
She had no training in her field. Didn’t stop her, either. 😁
This Dr. appears to be minimizing her criminal actions and psychotic behavior for some reason. Somewhat unsettling.
@@cleeboy5048: Hmmmm...you think maybe he’s in on the deal? Get over yourself. He’s just giving you his opinion based on his profession.
@@savahbejin7511 Listen, I don't need to get over anything. Many qualified doctors who studied this case and discussed their findings publicly, were somewhat in agreement with me. Don't insert notions that I am some sort of lone holdout. I have a right to state any opinions that I deem appropriate. This is an open forum and EVERYONE gets a say! He even asked us to submit our comments in the video. Perhaps you don't understand how free speech works?
but does she have a friend named Schmeeda?
I watched that documentary too. I’m also a physician. Once they started talking about the tech, I already knew it was impossible. She wanted to create a transdermal patch (eg- like a nicotine patch) you could wear that detects pathogens (specifically bacteria) in blood, and then it delivers the correct multiple doses of antibiotics. That’s impossible for a few dozen different reasons in medicine alone. Like basic physics and chemistry dictates it’s impossibility. Her ideas from a medical standpoint were ridiculous. But it seems like she effectively ignored advice from medical experts. Her narc dream was more important.
She could’ve done something useful, but greed got in her way, such a bad idea, why not use her genius to do something good, impressive?
I respect your comment and observation more than that of Dr. Grande!
1. Her own professor at Stanford told her repeatedly that it wasn't feasible, but she ignored her and kept going; the professor looked at her simply as a stubborn 19 year old..
2. Her voice is FAKE! I don't need to be a doctor to realize that! Besides, her employees caught her multiple times using her natural voice! Moreover, there are various pieces of audio where you can clearly hear her national voice.
Furthermore, during the deposition with the federal prosecutors, a video that's already out there, she uses her normal voice and you can see the real Elizabeth Holmes!
3. She did NOT suffer from PARANOIA, she was trying to hide at ALL COSTS the fraud that she had created--that was the reason why there was so much secrecy within the company and employees weren't even allowed to disclosed in their "LINKEDIN" account that they worked at the company!
4. Charm? What charm?? She's an unattractive, creepy looking individual with a fake voice and a Steve Jobs ," WANNABE"!
So, to Dr. Grande:
You should invest more time doing actual research, i.e., looking at the evidence being presented by the prosecutors (p.e., the multiple text messages between she and her boyfriend/COO), rather than relying on a "made for TV" so called ""documentary".. What the prosecutors are presenting "is the REAL DEAL", NOT hearsay, opinions, or "scripted" stories to retain an audience,as it's usually the case in tv!
because she thought she's the new Thomas Edison. been naming the machine after him and using his quotes many times
does she still have all that money
@@stevenevangelist5221 good question. The company was shut down so I’d imagine the stock price plummeted,, if she does have it it won’t be for long as she will need to use it for a very, very good defence lawyer if she is to stay out of Prison. It wasn’t just the money it was also all the sick people she scammed,
I feel like you missed some information about her childhood and employee interviews before making this evaluation. Also, her proposed defense in her upcoming trial is hard to believe. She went from a wunderkind Steve Jobs CEO to a happy young wife and mother to a horribly abused woman on trial all in a few years?? How is that possible? It's like she's constantly reinventing herself to fit the situation she's in.
Her father was a VP at Enron. That's all you really need to know. It was a painful tale that demonstrated just how gullible and greedy people are, at least in the start-up world.
One factoid that always bothered my is that Schultz's grandson worked at Theranos and at one point the grandson went straight to George and spilled the beans. George dismissed his own grandson's concerns. Although it is said that the two of them reconciled later, I thought it was very disappointing that a world leader would get sucked into this scam and worse, not even consider the facts shared by his own flesh and blood.
That was NOT her natural voice. Her former college professor came forward and admitted she never spoke that deep throughout her college time.
Exactly. Her old college professor, upon seeing her again a few years later, and hearing her speak in the deep voice, said to herself "Oh, give me a break." Professor knew right off the bat the Holmes was faking her new voice.
I think there is even a recording of her forgetting and beginning to speak in her normal voice before changing to the fake one.
@@pinkpugginz Lighten up.
@@pinkpugginz stfu. The point of bringing up her change in voice was the way it signaled her deceptive approach to the entire enterprise. She was inauthentic in a way that completely sums up the potemkin company she created.
She even admitted in some interview that the deep voice was not her natural voice.
“Charm” is not a word I would ever use to describe Holmes’ deviant personality.
but she certainly charmed her investors, I don't think the definition of charm is that everyone finds her charming, I personally do not either,
Agree, nothing charming about her at all.
Exactly.
@@phorestpsy216 because they were thirsty old men. She manipulated them.
@@phorestpsy216 Her obviously criminal mindset was what convinced her investors who are basically complices who thought they could participoate successfully in a scam. That isn't a case of charming but the opposite. They all thought, someone who is as malicious as they were themselves would get away with basically everything. They should get sentenced alltogether collectively.
I remember an episode of "Hawaii 5-O" back in the 1960's that had a show with the same type of machine and McGarrett was in the courtroom and the defendant that owned the company asked Jack Lord for a drop of his blood. Jack obliged and pricked his finger but dropped the blotter on the floor, picked it up and put it in the machine. It did it's calculating and spit out his complete health history including that he had broken a leg at some point. The courtroom was amazed until Jack Lord pulled out a blotter from his pocket and stated that the blotter he had put in the machine was red dye and the real blotter was in his hand the whole time. Sorry about the spoiler but maybe she got the idea from this show.
There was a podcast that covered her in more depth where it was revealed that working for her company was very chaotic because of the way she treated employees and I hear that she fired people as soon as they caught on to the scam, almost as soon as they documented a concern. I think there is an argument for psychopathy here.
Did you *just* diagnose someone? REALLY?
This happens to a wealth of employees when they work in organizations run by well spoken articulate manipulative people.
@@jeffmoncalieri7491 I don't think this person is diagnosing anyone, "but only speculating about what could be occuring in a situation like this". 😉
@@jeffmoncalieri7491 saying "I think there is an argument for x here" is not literally diagnosing someone 🤦♀Especially as they did not indicate they are a doctor by degree and/ or occupation? So technically them speculating is even MORE- so not a diagnosis than Dr. Grande's speculations!
@@madjayneify I was joking - B/c the Dr. always makes a point of saying he's NOT diagnosing someone.
Tyler Schultz, grandson of major investor and board member, George Schultz, was an employee at Theranos, and warned his grandfather that the company was heading for disaster, but grandpa did not listen.
good cuz it would have gotten them prison time most likely
Would he had listened if she looked and sounded like Hillary Clinton? I think not.
I remember when I first read about Holmes. It was early on, and she was being interviewed by some high profile news and tech magazines. One of the things she said made me look twice: she encouraged people starting businesses to "Never have a backup plan. It means you anticipate failure." At that point I knew there was something wrong. Have a backup plan. Have 3 - 5 backup plans. You'll need them because very few things go according to plan.
Entrepreneurs don’t think that way. Neither did Thomas Edison.
@@epoulos108 Wrong! Entrepreneurs do think of backup plans. If Elizabeth had a backup plan or even 1% of Thomas Edison's ability then she would not be on her way to Jail. She is a total fraud; naming a fake device after Thomas Edison and dressing like Steve Jobs. If she was a man, no one would be sympathizing with her. She should have named the device Madoff.
@@epoulos108 "entrepreneur?" U mean, FRAUD 🤥
@@epoulos108 Fake motivation entrepreneurs think that make because it makes people think they can do something they can't do.
Most entrepreneurs don't have a backup plan. They're betting on themselves and a singular idea. Smart investors have backup plans. Some successful entrepreneurs become investors later on however.
I get where his perspective comes from after watching the hbo documentary. However, being about 1 third into the book, I'm increasingly convinced that this was indeed an elaborate fraud. Also, the way she treated people that worked for her was attrocious and she was obviously a master at gaslighting. So I do think she's much more of a sociopath than the documentary suggests and her intentions are much more questionable.
Huh? We were mystified by Dr. Grande's analysis of E. Holmes. He's describing this robotic-like human, who uses a false voice, stares like a creepy doll, and speaks pure jargon, as "charming," and (what?) genuinely believing her company would revolutionize the world. My husband said, "Uh-oh, Dr. Grande has a crush." Kind of sweet: Fraudsters too need someone in their corner.
Agree. I expected more from dr Grande too.
The voice & that face. No medical degree here but not needed to see evil….that is what I see…
"First they think you're crazy, then they fight you, then they find out you're batshit insane and need a psychologcal evaluation.”
If you haven't seen it, check out True Crime Loser's analysis of Holmes. He's a super funny guy that paid special attention to that saying of hers.
@SoMany AmericanNazis
Maybe you're more of a visual person?
TCL's viewers tend to like his humor/wit and find that it more than makes up for the lack of photos or video clips.
She’s not crazy, she’s got a few personality disorders is my bet. Still waiting to hear what doc g says on wrap up.
Lol!
lol best comment on here.
Putting it bluntly, she was a new age "snake-oil" salesperson on a grand scale. She is, indeed, a liar and a thief. It's difficult to see this as standard social behavior.
What is more blunty honest not only her but everyone else including the media was dying to have a good looking female Steve Jobs so badly they ignored all of the red flags. She is a snake oil salesperson just like her father, Christian Rasmus Holmes IV, was a vice president at Enron, an energy company that later went bankrupt after an accounting fraud scandal.
Her behavior does embody a lot of our society's current values though, and her story represents well the logic of late-stage capitalism
But not difficult to see it as typical corporate America.
@@25Soupy shes not that good looking though. Sadly looks matter. Hopefully one day women wont have to contend with this double standard.
@@marcodallolio9746 late style capitalism, more like all current communist and 3rd world countries. None of which were ever capitalist countries to start with.
"She wanted her lies to be true."--Dr. Grande. Isn't that a bit of delusional behavior in that she refused to believe that she would someday face criminal prosecution?
You should look into her ex lecturer at university of Stanford about how shocked she was at her changed voice. However over the years of faking that voice has become nearly second nature to her. She’s a copy cat and a con artist with an ego the size of a sun, just great at manipulating with the use of human psychology.
You have a link?
What I find interesting about the whole thing is that Elizabeth Holmes invented a problem that doesn’t even exist. Phlebotomy is fairly simple, cheap, and painless, and we have very good lab testing. We have good point of care tests for emergencies in hospitals, and outpatient labs have generally quick turn-around times. Healthcare has so many problems in this country but I can say as a nurse of 12 years accurate cost effective lab testing isn’t one of them. She tried to solve a problem that doesn’t exist. Only non-healthcare people would be convinced by her, no people who actually work in healthcare.
And Elizabeth was a non healthcare person.
From her voice, to her hair, eyes, and demeanor, she is full-on Uncanny Valley.
So true! She has that blank expression that those robotic humanoid prototypes always do. Nice observation.
Never trust a bleached blond.
yes definitely very unsettling black mirror vibes going on here
“Silicon Valley? More like...Uncanny Valley!”
Everything about her is fake:
Her hair is fake clip in weave the same kind the Kardashian wear.
Her eye color is fake she wears color contact lenses 🤣❗️ Her voice is fake just Google the videos she sounds like a beautiful bot. Everything about her was fake just like the technology she lied about inventing 🤣❗️
Dr. Grande with all due respect you’re wrong about her voice. Many people stated that she didn’t have a low voice in college, she started using a low voice after leaving Stanford. To me the voice change is an indicator of neuroticism (and copying Jobs’ mannerisms and dress style)
That's anecdotal. Not proving Dr Grande wrong.
How is that neuroticism? I am puzzled by your opinion.
So much points to sociopathy (or related personality disorder lacking conscience), particularly the manipulation and lack of regard for the safety of people who used her machine.
@@seapod To the point, Dr. Grande's impression was based on assumption. The many recordings of Ms. Holmes using 'different' voices evidences that her voice changed.
People were so anxious to have a woman, groundbreaking inventor they missed the fact that she was a fraud.
You are so correct. She was the one we’ve been waiting for.
@billy Barton, why are you waiting for that? It is that important to you for a female inventor to come along and invent something?
@Billy Barton When you make a decision on someone based on their sex only, Holmes is what you get. Everyone overlooked or ignored the fact that she was a fraud.
America to be specific, always dotting on the next new thing (billionaire) especially investors.
Fr lol
As a licensed, certified Speech Pathologist, she has modified her voice to appear credible, aka Steve Jobs. She did the same with her wardrobe. Waiting for the upcoming trial.
Ironically Steve jobs had quite a high voice.
@The Last Crusader great point
did it happen yet?
@@willkrummeck starts in March i believe
aka means “ AlsoKnown As”
Holmes was incredibly lucky her family is wealthy and well connected, that's what opened the doors for her to seek investors and have well known people join the board of this "company". All these people seeing dollar signs enabled her ridiculous claims and gave her more and more money. People's lives were risked by the fradulent medical tests, all because of Holmes massive ego combined by greed.
Yup..meanwhile normal ppl cant get a 500 buck investment
Well, you could say it was luck, yet a curse at the same time. Had she not been able reach out for more funding several times, the company would have gone bust much sooner and she likely would not have ended up spiraling into a years long fraud. Theranos would have been just another one of many failed startups and would have been barely a blip in biotech history.
She was Channing Robertson's Frankenstein. I suspect Ian Gibbons was in on it from the beginning. Him and Robertson had been friends since the 80s.
Hi Dr Todd. You mentioned Elizabeth's voice being low and it would be hard to fake it for so long. I watched an interview between a reporter and one of her Uni lectures, who also happen to be a doctor. She told the reporter her voice was not that low when she taught her and she is putting it on.
I love the way she was embraced by people who regard themselves as the smartest in the world. That made me chortle.
I COMPLETELY disagree with you Mr. Grande. 1) I've heard her real voice....and it's not her public voice....insane that you didn't bother to research that. 2) she had zero problem lying to everybody 3) Machavellian - she spent 1/3 of the investment on lawyers, she monitored email communication 4) the dead cold stare...the dead cold affect...she's empty emotionally
Right on.
Absolutely right
Normally I feel like Dr. Grande is spot on but the numerous docos I've watched about Elizabeth Holmes make me think she's deliberately manipulative, chronically dishonest, using a fake voice, and has been in denial from the start about the fact that what she was aiming to do just isn't possible (she was told as much before she left Harvard!).
It was Stanford, not Harvard, that she dropped out of in her second year.
Yes, she lacked the appropriate expertise and skipped appropriate steps before launching the Edison, putting intended consumers at risk. Sounds sociopathic to me.
yeah i’m confused how he can say she doesn’t have any narcissistic or sociopath traits. she’s incredibly manipulative, ignores rules and laws, she lies, and has a high level of grandiosity and self importance. maybe he got duped by her as well lol
I donaknow. He( grande) does not seem to anger much.. I wish i could be more like that. Just....chill.
Stanford
A cold calculative person over assessing their own capabilities. The grandiose narc!
She looks a lot more like a damaged and dreaming kid. I do not think she did any of this consciously, it was too risky and an intelligent person would have seen that!!! She thought life was a play and you act to get along.
She doesn't blow up though and show extraversion. We cannot diagnose anyone but I'd believe more of her to be a sociopath by watching the show. But again we can't diagnose her or anyone.
I agree that she has crazy eyes. She just seems so weird. She scammed a lot of people and hurt people.
Yeah, she's definitely an ice prick under the mattress kind of girl...
Something you didn't mention that may be relevant to your analysis is that on a number of occasions, when she was confronted with people knowledgeable in that field who asked the right questions, she abruptly got up and left the room. This was true even early on and to me indicates that she knew back then that she was committing fraud.
I want to see those interviews, can you find them online?
@@florencia2771 I wish I could. I watched quite a few a couple of years ago and read several articles and have no memory of where I saw that comment.
A famous person leaving the room when someone asked the right questions? Sounds like someone else I know who currently resides at 1600 Pennsylvania avenue
@@bassandbucks4282 just gotta get your politics in there somehow regardless of how irrelevant.
@@itsalgud1459 nah man I wasn't trying to start nothing I was just screwing around personally I have no real political leanings at all both parties are completely fucked up😂
I think her “piercing stare” and “deep voice” were simply posturing. I believe she felt these attributes made her seem powerful and eccentric, just like her idol Steve Jobs was powerful and eccentric.
It is perfectly possible to speak in a tone higher or lower than one’s natural register for long periods of time. In fact, it can even become second nature after a while. For example, transgender women often purposefully train themselves to speak in a higher pitch as part of their transition.
Radio and TV broadcasters also alter their voice long term through therapy
Jessica P
Indeed. And actors can learn to speak in different accents for long periods of time through training and practice. It’s not uncommon for people to do this sort of thing.
I don't think Steve Jobs was quite that eccentric. When did he manipulate his voice or any other aspects of himself? I can't remember such a situation. What he was, though, is very confident and sincerely so, and therefore probably allowed himself more than perhaps others might.
comment
He was quite eccentric. He wore the exact same outfit every day: the signature black turtleneck (which Elizabeth copied from him). He also thought he could cure his cancer with juice, which is pretty weird (and also obviously didn’t work).
Elizabeth, I believe, was trying to copy Steve Jobs in every way. Since he was a man, he had a deeper voice than her. But she tried to copy that as well.
@@NimbusDX Right, maybe so, you have a point, but I still think it was just a bigger freedom of expression that he felt and exercised (let's leave the alternative medicine thing aside, because that's sort of a separate phenomenon i think), it was something very much his own. Like you say, she was imitating him, but he wasn't imitating anybody but rather being himself to a certain extreme - that is one key difference that kind of says it all. In fact you might say he was eccentric whereas she intentionally acted eccentric
There is a clip of she, Bill Clinton and Jack Ma having a discussion about global problems at some kind of educational talk. When Bill asks her a fairly intense question, she answers with complete gibberish. It is word vomit. And she looks scared, as she knows that both Bill and Jack will see right through her as she didn't have the intellectual capabilities that these men did. Sure enough, after that first answer, Bill spends the duration of the talk directing questions at Jack Ma only, and Elizabeth does not speak again. It is so hard to watch guys. I saw it on the channel Narc Alert. Really great video, y'all should check it out.
I realized at some point she had never been told NO in her life. When told NO she just bulldozed over those people until she bullied or calculated a YES. Narcissism.
The sickest people in the world when they go unchecked.
Let this story be a lesson to all of us. Everybody was humouring this toddler for far too long.
Exactly!
So true.
Boy, I have felt this as well.
Stop being a baby, Maia! Time to grow up!
Self deluded with a false sense of entitlement.
I think you were way too easy and forgiving on this one, this was way beyond just motivation.
She was a pathological liar, manipulative and a con woman who knew exactly what she was doing, namely that she was a fraud.
People lost their lives due to her actions and should be on trial and convicted accordingly.
It’s like he barely even read about the things she did lol
Agree. Her non-reaction to chemist Ian Gibbons' suicide, not even offering his widow condolences was chilling information and did not get any mention in this analysis. She pushed that poor man to his breaking point.
Yea it’s weird how Grande sometimes doesn’t recognize things that all of the rest of us can clearly see. He’s often emotional, doesn’t use logic, and doesn’t do enough research.
At the very least she is a sociopath. Grande’s reluctance to diagnose perhaps indicates a fear of defamation?
For a person to con on this level, I am amazed that you ruled out sociopathic narcissism. Objectivity seems affected by your analysis.
She didn't run a billion dollar company, she ran a billion dollar con. I'm fairly surprised at this analysis.
Though I'm still learning about Holmes and the case, I feel that Todd is a bit too kind in his clinical assessment. Granted, maybe the whole Silicon Valley society and world of venture capital needs to be on the couch, but as one of Holmes' former professors says in Australia's 60 Minutes, something pathological seems to have been operating and still is as she became PG during the trial. On the other hand, Todd does take various clinical disorders and diagnoses and assess them one at a time.
As Grande acknowledged, she has many traits indicative of F1 psychopathy: fearlessness, low neuroticism, unemotional, manipulative liar ... he just had a hard time seeing her as arrogant and calloused because she presented as caring and conscientious. And therein lies the key. Psychopaths tend to be cunning manipulators, adept at gaining the confidence of others. That is why the facts, rather than impressions, are our best guide. Caring and conscientious people don't put patients at risk by faking blood tests or put investors at risk by lying and generating fake reports. Holmes is a pathological liar, which suggests that she is delusional or deeply manipulative. Grande tried to avoid this crossroad by convincing himself that her web of lies were hope-based enthusiasm. Save that excuse for her defense team - grown women don't engage in pathological lying out of blind, well-meaning hopefulness. The jury didn't buy it either.
I just find it odd that she has those same big, blank eyes like Mark Zuckerberg.😳
I had to compare the two...and you're right! Amazing!
And they blink sideways. Like a lizard :)
Not only those big blank eyes, they resemble each other eerily. They look like cyborg siblings.
They're made by the same manufacturer, the eyes are a company trademark
And the sideways eyelids too.
With the fixation on Steve Jobs, it should be understood that his area of expertise was marketing, not product development. That was where Woz did the heavy lifting.
I think she knew she was bull shitting and Jobs was the king of that
LIKE ALL NARCS. it's all PR. No substance.
Steve did have an eye for design, but you are right Woz did all the technical stuff, and later other engineers. Holmes tried to force her square peg idea into the round hole of reality by hiring a bunch of bio-engineers, but she would fire them if they didn't tell her what she wanted to hear. Her idea was fundamentally flawed and based on a deep misapprehension of biological/physical reality.
@@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017 I hate Steve Jobs because he was an asshole who treated Wozniak very wrong and lied to him many times, despite he did all the work. Atari paid 5000Usd because thy wanted a game programmed and Woz did it. He paid him only 500 and told that he had gotten 1000from Atari. SUCH AN ASSHOLE!!!
@@ok-ahsungestreift3031 Yeah I remember hearing that story. That speaks to a sociopathic level of dishonesty. I guess the same can be said of Mark Zuckerberg. He ripped off several "friends" also. You know what they say, psychopaths are more likely to be found in business, law enforcement and politics.
As a student at Stanford she did not have that voice. A Professor went to her talk on Theranos and was shocked with her Steve Jobs turtleneck and low voice, she was a con artist and got caught. She knew exactly what’s she was doing she apparently would have conned you out of money as well.
I've observed over the years that therapists are prone to inadvertently becoming enablers. I think Dr. Grande might be veering into that territory with his analysis here.
I got the impression from this analysis that Dr. Grande might have been on the Theranos board, if given the opportunity.
he usually seems pretty on the mark. human error exists for everyone. so i don't think we need to dog the guy. But yes, I don't think psychopathy could be any more clear in Holmes's case. and I don't think a doctor is even necessary to determine that.
I was diagnosed with NPD with ASPD traits and I saw a lot of myself in her when I watched The Inventor. Most notably, her ability to lie on the spot without batting an eye and ability to win others over through charm and intellect. I found it actually kind of startling how much I related to her. She absolutely had a bit of a superiority complex, and felt that she was untouchable and special. I don’t believe she started out with malicious intentions at all, but I think her ego got in the way of her admitting she had to give up when her idea wasn’t working out. I agree that Holmes’ conviction in her idea allowed investors to trust her as much as they did.
Are you getting treatment?
Yes, I am currently in therapy. As with most people with NPD (and other Cluster B PDs), I entered treatment for depression and received my personality disorder diagnoses as a result.
Claire Samuels what’s the best way to have a relationship with someone with npd? Should confront them
That would depend on a few factors. How self-aware is the person in question? Do they have motivation to change? And are their narcissistic behaviors interpersonally harmful? I would also recommend you assess your own motivation for dating a narcissist. By no means do we want to remain alone forever (quite the opposite), but I personally believe some of us are best left single until we can reach a level of personal and interpersonal functioning that is healthy.
Claire Samuels Seems like we have similar traits. Wanna date?
Her parents were Enron Execs AND she was very well connected.
Is that really true or are you being sarcastic? The case was interesting
@@denisepowell6644 it is true but has nothing to do with her fraudulent actions. And her family had nothing to do with the Enron scandal. People like to conflate the two things as if it were a gotchya moment. But yes they were connected to powerful people.
@@mhern57 pretty sure the word i used was 'people' not 'Frankie'. And you missed the part where I agree with said person by validating the fact Holmes was connected.
@@DaveyMulholland bricks
@@mhern57 what TF are you on about? If you're saying her family had something to do with the Enron scandal then show us your source.
"The wicked fleeth when no one pursueth."
Her paranoia was due to the fact that she knew she was deceiving people. And in order to keep that lie from being exposed she had engage in paranoid measures in order to preserve the lie.
I could watch your channel all day. When I was in HS I read the DSM IV for fun light reading. I even worked in Medical Records in the microfilm department overnights so I could read actual files. I never got to grow in my education, as I started a family at 18, and now married over 31 years, and raising my autistic granddaughter. Your channel is like perfection. Thank you!
I listened to a podcast about this case and what struck me, apart from Holmes’s brazen con artistry, was how willing famous, powerful people were to support her - proof, if any were needed, that rich powerful people can be just as gullible as the rest of us.
So true and scary at the same time.
"It is difficult to make someone understand something, if their livelihood depends on them not understanding."
-- Some clever guy
This applies to all those Black Lives Matter hustlers. You can talk all day about how whites are shot more often than blacks by police and all the statistics contradict their narrative but they will ignore you.
Aka willful negligence
On the contrary I'd say there is grounds to argue she is emotionally reactive. The documentary I watched claimed she'd fire employees on a whim if they showed even a hint that they were uncomfortable with either falsifying lab results by using available blood machines and saying they came from the Edison (when in fact they were run through a Siemens machine) or for any criticism of her relationship with Sunny.
An excellent and hugely interesting video. Well done Dr Grande. I've had experience in trying to court investors and it's certainly not easy. What I find ABSOLUTELY STAGGERING in this case study is that the investors didn't appear to even think about wheeling in independent scientists and engineers with relevant expertise, to do the due diligence by taking a very thorough look at the device and how it worked, and to see a substantial number of practical trial demonstrations to verify that it did what it was claimed to do, accompanied by a detailed report with all the test results and analysis. It looks to me like the investors were leaving their brains at home!
I love Dr Grande's analyses, but throughout this particular one, I kept feeling like we didn't have the same person in mind. It's been awhile since I read Bad Blood, but I remember being mind blown over and over by how messed up this woman is. It just feels like Dr Grande missed a lot somehow., including how to pronounce Theranos and the fact that the deep voice isn't her natural voice. That's pretty well established I think.
I think this woman gets a pass from so many men
I agree with you, but I'd say that he is not missing anything; rather - he is careful and wants to be professional. Remember, she threatened a grandson of George Shultz...! (She will fight like hell to get herself from this mess.)
I dare to state that nobody who has a brain and is older than 5 needs to be Mary Trump or another specialist from psychology, psychiatry, or sociology to say something qualified about the personality of the 45th. (In some cases, the misbehavior is pretty obvious, even to the laymen.) The same is valid over here.
If somebody went to Standford and studied over there for some time, she must be quite intelligent.
And a sane, let alone intelligent person, must be capable of recognizing what a dream is and what is a reality. And it doesn't seem to be a case over here.
So, with all due respect to Dr. Grande, if somebody cannot recognize such a difference somewhere in the middle of the process (have a "start-dream" is surely ok), something is pretty much rotten in the state of Denmark.
Hitler so passionately advocated for his "final solution" he genuinely believed in(sic!). From this viewpoint, it's no difference between him (Hitler) and Holmes.
So, doc, are you stating if somebody is deeply involved in the case, passionately advocates for it whatever perverse the theory is, and genuinely believes in this nonsense (if I don't straightly say sh*t) that's enough to be considered sane? SERIOUSLY...?!
Nah, I am not buying this from you. I know you haven't diagnosed her, and your professionalism rules to be careful with the statement, but that's valid for any case, right?
@@MsXtines I think you're right.
I got that same feeling, like he was overlooking some pretty obvious and well known incidents and examples that go against what we're hearing here. Video of that deep voice dropping when when she's interviewed for longer periods and she has it start to slip near the end.
I never watched them documentary, maybe the way she was portrayed in it would give the impression hrs describing.
I agree with you Epona. I like Dr. Grande's analysis in general, but in this case, he seems somehow "charmed" by her to, and kind of gives her a pass.
When Elizabeth was about seven, she showed great interest in science. One of her 'inventions' was a time machine, which she drew for her parents. The parents indulged her fantasies, and inquired frequently on how her projects were going. I suppose it's possible that this encouragement of far fetched ideas in a young child - without challenging the practicality of anything or grounding it in reality - might have planted the idea that her delusions were respectable and OK to be taken and pursued seriously. Her mantra would become: "If you can imagine it, you can achieve it." The self-confidence with which she then continued to embrace her wild ideas, package in a female allure (read 'femme fatale) ended up convincing other people too that her Theranos idea was solid. People with grandiose delusions - especially if they can present it with intelligence and magnetism - can be very compelling, and they can sweep you along down a ruinous path if you don't wake up soon enough.
The parents should have steered the 7 year old towards fiction writing. That would have called for parental astuteness which is sometimes lacking.
When a child is seven and they are living in their world of imagination of cause you indulge their fantasies. If she was fourteen and building a time machine that's when you would be challenging her.
@@floxy20 Ah, yes. Fiction writing would have suited her. With her personality, she could have even become the cult leader of Theranosology.
That’s a good assessment
See with Asian parents like mine , that time machine idea would have gotten ridiculed right away. You face reality pretty quick as an Asian kid
I always wondered how they were able to run the tests at the Theranos lab even on the traditional machines with just a pin prick of blood. Turns out they were diluting patient's blood as the traditional machines required larger volumes of blood to run the tests, and they were printing false reports.... The sheer horror of it all. Thank God there were a few brave people who became the whistle blowers and put a stop to this dangerous activity. It did go on for too long though.
I´ve seen that stare in two female psychopats I used to know. When I disagreed on something, they kept on insisting while staring at me, until the stare became so uncomfortable, that I gave in and admitted they were right (regretting it afterwards).
IMO, She clearly exhibits a PD from the simple fact that she was arrogant enough to believe her scheme was not going to be exposed eventually.
The HBO doc showed that she got progressively more paranoid after her love interest was put at the head with her. I think this is a case of shared psychosis. They became insular and paranoid. It reminded me of the twin sisters who jumped into traffic. They were in their own shared world with one of them being the dominant one. Who was the dominant one pushing the paranoia? Who knows.
I think early on they hoped to overcome the shortcomings in their device. Later I think it turned into a situation where they had gone too far and taken too much money to come clean.
Not just arrogant but also silly and stupid I’d say.
@@lucreziamorganti9115 she doest believe that about herself. Trust. Lol
Very interesting analysis. There's a very fine line here. I think it's clear that she was not well-adjusted, was very self-centered, and was extremely rigid.
Snap dragon, possibly an over indulged child could be found in her upbringing,
It’s so funny I came across this older video of yours and still , I mean it’s clear you are a very talented person. You’re the most thorough communicator I’ve ever listened to. Thank you for your work and God bless your business .
I like your idea that "needing something to be true" is dangerous. Good food for thought.
I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist, but as a human being who relies on instinct and logic, her affect is off. Something is very off putting and creepy about her. She comes across as robotic to me. That is just my impression. I don't know how she did it, but she fooled a lot of people who I suspect are not very good at reading the art of BS.
Her eyes: they're trying to hypnotize you (or me or anyone who has something she wants or needs). Anyone who puts that much energy into being charming should be regarded with suspicion.
@@visionofdisorder
I had the same perception.
You put it well.
It seems most people responding here see her as a liar and a fraud, a pathological case.
I think it's exactly why she succeeded in drawing investors in. When a person gets stressed the pitch of their voice goes up, and their face becomes more active. When we find ourselves in a stressful situation, we naturally see the person with the lowest pitch voice and the calmest face as the leader. This is a reasonable adaptation: the person who has survived this kind of crisis before or has trained for this situation will most likely be the least stressed.
But the emotional investor will also think that the person with the low-pitched voice and the static face who are risking billions of dollars is a leader and knows what they're doing.
The prudent investor will, of course, look at the financial and technical state of the venture.
@@visionofdisorder I don't think so. I guess, his motivation to be that protective derives from something else.
Does anyone besides me remember "Village of the Damned" and the sequel "Children of the Damned," the black-and-white, British movies from the early Sixties?
"BEWARE THE EYES THAT PARALYZE."
The most curious thing to me is how so many were conned. Everything about her screamed fraud.
3-Card Monty for the super-rich. "Because I wanted to believe, I did."
That's a very interesting comment. Was it obvious? Maybe. But did you foresee this coming? And if so, do you know of any other companies doing this level of fraud? I don't even have a guess. Well, maybe a guess, but not more :)
@@cybercab Exactly. Hindsight is 20/20. Anyone willing to work 80-90 hours a week to see a company off the ground isn't going fit the mold of your average Joe. Furthermore, she fully believed in her idea. She didn't have to lie because, to her, it was going to become reality given enough time. It wasn't until the end that she started lying to save her ass from the mess created.
What suprised me the most before everything broke, was that her public presentations with people like Pres Clinton seemed so staged. They had a feeling like a time share presentation. She had just dropped out of Stanford and was going to make a miracle blood test device. She had no background or education in medicine.
It didn't make sense.
@@cybercab
It looked odd to me. It didn't make any sense. Had it not been a miracle medical device, I think it would have made more sense.
Great analysis thank you. That she pulled the wool over investors eyes for so long is amazing. She has however done the whole testing industry a HUGE favor. No one will EVER allow themselves to be fooled like this again , no matter how charismatic the person. They will ask for hard science, hard evidence and direct observation. And if they do throw money at an idea without checking they deserve to lose their billions. This case will go down in history and is no doubt already the favorite case study to bring up in business & marketing schools across the world!
And YET, it did happen again. Every con knows that the easiest person to con is someone looking to get something for nothing - and there is never any shortage of those types.
@@merriemerrie7378 This is true, good point.
Enjoyed your commentary. I recently finished the book, Bad Blood, written by the WSJ reporter who initially broke the story. I agree with all of your observations. I think the conclusions are harder to come by. How does a person BS her way to billions of dollars and continue to function when she knows the product doesn't work? One thing that has been missing in this story is much information about Elizabeth Holmes' formative years. Those years seem to be mostly hidden from view, in the book and apparently the documentary. She did aspire to being a billionaire very early in life. Not sure if her condition can be classified pathologically, but her ambition reached a point where she was 100% willing to turn her back on reality.
She always goes for the Steve Jobs look but she ends up looking like the essential crazy ex girlfriend
Hahahahahaha!!😟😂😂
Yes, she had her poor, employees, that were much smarter than her, under tremendous, stress, she caused one man to commit suicide, who worked for the company.🥺
I believe she knew exactly what, she was doing, and she gets no pass from me.
Quintessential?
Facts man facts.
😂😅🤣😂😅🤣😂😅🤣😂😅🤣😂😅🤣😂😅😂🤣😅😂😅🤣😂😅🤣
Yeah😂👍
I think that she thought the stare and forcing a deep voice made here more convincing.
She probably read that somewhere (e.g. I’ve seen studies claiming that people trust more in people with deep voices) and worked when getting the first investors so she kept doing it.
i work with tmobile before as a customer service yah that works haha. to make you more convincing eith white lies
I've fallen for a few things in my life but, I am certain, I would have run a mile from this woman if she had ever tried to sell me something and am surprised that anyone ever gave her a penny. That is apart from the lack of significant experience, background, education or training in any field relevant to the invention of this 'product'.
Love seeing your videos. So much objectivity! Thank you!
Someone did a body language analysis on her a couple years ago and called her BS and warned everyone lol
One word can describe your profile pic - vandalized.
Dr. Grande things body language science is trash, not verbatim. He mentioned it in another video.
There’s no validity to body language analysis. It’s pseudoscience.
I hope that by watching this channel you will learn not to believe in body language "analysis".
Did they mention that, when seated during interviews, she leans forward with her legs open and places her elbows on her knees, to posture herself as tough and masculine? (For the record, this is the first time I’ve disagreed with a Dr. Grande assessment.)
"No evidence of impulsiveness?" Apparently, you haven't read *Bad Blood* by John Carreyrou. In it, he notes that, when she was losing at Monopoly, she would pitch a tantrum, and once or twice ran straight through a screen door. I'd say that was pretty impulsive.
she can't tolerate loosing. hm! what a surprise
Whoever said, "There's a sucker born every minute" was right. I watched 3 close family members from 3 different generations constantly look for ways to impress anyone or everyone about their greatness and they gleaned info from many others to incorporate into their own stories. Sometimes for monitary gain while other times not. When Elizabeth was riding high on her fame I watched just one interview and knew she was a fraud just like my family members and wondered why people believed her. My family had many narcissistic traits and I guess that Elizabeth may too.
This is an even handed and insightful analysis. Excellent work.
I appreciate your open mindedness but you lost me when you said her voice was likely her own. Any singer / vocal coach or even average person can pick up that it sounded forced. Our senses as far as I understand them are hyper tuned to perceive and judge human behaviors. Case in point being how our brain is wired specifically to recognize faces; and also how we read body language and actual speech characteristics. This would suppose we have a high sensitivity to extremely subtle behaviors just by default.
TLDR you can discern the fabricated and unnatural tone of voice she used extremely easily lol.
Ps if you really were putting on a show its really not that difficult to modulate your tone of voice to the point it becomes subconscious. What is singing afterall? How can actors keep up a fake accent through entire sagas? The answer is simple.... Its not hard to train yourself to talk a certain way. Look at valley girls... Do we really believe that's how people naturally come to speak? Lol no... Its a learned behavior and so was her voice.
She absolutely used a fake voice. There is at least one recording of her letting her guard down. Whistleblower employees also confirmed this. I agree - Dr. Grande has missed the mark on this one. She seems clearly sociopathic by his own criteria, especially regarding being manipulative. However I agree that she was not delusional. She knew exactly what she was doing. But grandiose beliefs make one think it’s possible to get away with it.
I agree the HBO documentary was fantastic. The whole time, I felt like she was lying about nearly everything in order to construct the image she wanted.
If she knew anything abt how many blood tests are done she wouldn't have made a fool of herself. Testing for many things typically uses up some blood, this is WHY more than a drop is needed for most tests. She'd have to have recreated testing methods substantially and in ways that are not near physically possible with our current understanding. Med comm was right to be skeptical, it's just such an unlikely thing at this time.
Your videos are helping answer all the questions. thank you very much.
"Emotional decisions lead the way to disaster."
Excellent ending quote.
mr_jardle
Like acting in haste.
Anna da munney,two
All I'm going to say is, she appeared to be highly driven for power and lied over and over to achieve it. She did not have the moral or ethical aptitude to reign in this drive. She also gives me chills.
Very well done. I agree with most of your assessments - logical and insightful, IMHO. THANKS, Dr G
Liz Padden
I'm a clinical Nurse Specialist in Psych I was struck by the fact that her father kissed her on the head at her trial. It was as if he was giving her, his blessing. He was involved in the Enron scandal and did he not loose a lot of money in that scandal? It seems odd that she too was involved in a loss of money on a grand scale. The family that cheats together ...stays ogether.
Thank you so much for your speculations on Elizabeth Holmes. I attended the ACFE conference this past summer and one of the whistle blowers, Tyler Shultz, was a speaker. The destruction that this gal left behind was profound and Tyler Shultz and his family were terribly impacted. I view her as a destructive individual. She didn't seem to care who she plowed over to achieve her dream. It's astonishing that so many privileged individuals couldn't invest in her dream fast enough. This seems to speak to greed because it doesn't speak to anyone being wise enough or prudent enough to ask questions before forking over millions of dollars. Thanks, again, Dr. Grande.
And she apparently didn't show much emotion or care for one of her staff that took his own life.. (according to a documentary.. not 100% sure.. but with what everyone is saying, this isn't surprising.). She's icy. That ain't normal.
At least in the case of the Walgreen's people, she found people vulnerable to her pitch. Walgreen's was desperate to meet the challenge posed by the growth of CVS. That family was ripe for a scheme that promised to put CVS in their dust. Was it just luck that she lighted on people who were vulnerable? Or did she go after them because she knew them to be easy prey?
@@louisc.gasper7588 Damn good questions. She did seem to have uncanny ability to find easy marks. I wonder if any of her confederates were also grifters/criminals. Birds of a feather.. That one biologist that killed himself seemed to be the one that had a small conscience that was niggling him (he also just thought that he was going to be fired and ruined).
She doesn't sound much different than a cult leader. It's kinda sad, really. She's only as old as my aunt who's happily raising kids and managing a Wal-Mart at night. People underappreciate good old fashioned work. There's joy there. It seems a lot of people want a shortcut to wealth and fame these days.
Some people simply can't settle on such low profile work. The said Walmart's CEO certainly didn't. People are not equal, some are more capable than others and they know it. You can't strip away their ambitions and options.
Not all people want kids or a Walmart job. Everyone’s ambitions are legit if they are done right. If we all wanted to be like your aunt you wouldn’t have all the technology and comforts of modern life.
@Nikki E.
✊Down with the Patriarchy!
😂😂😂
I'm not a fan of Elizabeth Holmes but why should anyone be happy with being exploited by corporations?
@@skuyzy198 Sure, some people are more capable. But these silicon valley types often play up their own contributions. They're just the people who have the right connections and/or money to enclose a new market. The technology is not invented by them, it's assembled into a product by them. R&D happens in labs and universities, often by public funding. Holmes is a case of a person that bought into the mythology of the genius CEO/inventor herself and failed hard because there was no research or technical basis for her vision.
I like what you said about her voice. I used to use a lower voice intentionally when I was in first couple years of high school because it made people treat me more seriously. But her voice sounds like mine does NOW, be my natural really awkward voice. it alternates between high and low when her throat is tightened I believe? it really read as fluctuating confidence to me.
Non-Americans should note, when considering that famous entrepreneurs like Holmes, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and Mark Zuckerberg dropped out of elite universities after a couple of years, that the first two years of American colleges are at the level of the last two years of schools in European countries.
Of course they were all clever kids, and could have been taking higher level courses as well, but even those may have been at first year level in European terms.
Elizabeth Holmes was supposedly studying chemical engineering at Stanford University, but I question how far her studies would have taken her before the end of her second year.
I’m just a nurse and I know this can’t ever be done with one drop.. not now not ever!!
That's called 'experience'...nothing can beat experience
“Just a nurse” ? So am I but I will trumpet our skills for accurate assessments in a short amount of time. We think on our feet and are right most of the time. Be a proud nurse.
I dont know if "ever". But she hasnt the skills. But somebody is going to achive it one day. But its going to be in years. Not soon. Everything is possible. Somebody is going to work on it.
@@CarolT55 Showing humility is a virtue. Humility can be confused with self-deprecation, but it's not. Also - can be used to show dismay on how "experts" and "educated" people can be fooled by something that doesn't pass common-sense test. (Emperor has no clothes.) ie: "I'm just a child, but it doesn't take a tailor to understand that dude be-naked!"
Some people listen to the Sleep with Me podcast to relax at night, and some people listen to Dr. Grande calmly stating the facts. 💖
I'm not the doctor, but I can't help but feel that Doc is being a little gentle with Holmes. I'm not saying he should say she's a psychopath but saying she's not very manipulative or arrogant. I think at some point down the road she realized this wasn't going to work and kept it alive anyway. Maybe it's not clinically manipulative or arrogant, but it certainly some low character stuff going on.
The first time I heard that voice of hers, it sounded ridiculously put-on. I think you can hear the strain on her voice box. She may have an uncommon ability to shift her voice to a very low register, but I suspect some insecurities led her to try to sound more mature and masculine... Just a theory
her stare and voice is a huge flag😳💯
Wow, you were wayyyy too easy on this psycho, Dr. G!
He sure was!
Maybe he liked the psycho's blue eye
@@SheldonHelms wow, Sheldon, maybe you should start your own youtube. 😃
It’s because she’s white and thin… they are never hard on them. He probably wants her!!!!!!!!!!!
Agreed!!!
As someone who worked in the biotech industry for many years, I find it hard to believe that a 19-year-old chemical engineering major who thought that her micro-testing concept was realistic would not be considered delusional. Medicine is *not* computer science. She had enough education to understand this, and if she didn't, she should have realized that she was in trouble very, very early on.
She knew but she didn't care. All she saw were $$$.
Please do a follow up on this video. More and more info has come out in the last two years about her personal behavior. Including a long list of employees who said she was a habitual liar.
“Emotional decisions lead the way to disaster.” Imagine how much human suffering, death and misery could have been spared if only people realised this?
Without absolute proof we humans go with our gut.
@@tommyodonovan3883 Conscious thought is hard work, just ask "W." Much easier to toss stuff and see what sticks.
My take-away is that a criminal need not be mentally ill.
@Janina Palance If criminality is a mental illness then is being a good samaritan also a mental illness? One is hurting others, one is hurting themselves. Are behaviours mental illnesses?
Exactly. I know someone who is a serial killer. He makes a lot of claims about being mentally ill, but I never saw that. He's just a bad person. A criminal.
Yup... And the mentally ill aren't necessarily criminal. How are people supposed to reach out, get help and get better if everyone around them believes mental illness leads to criminality?
Yes
Nobody said you need to be mentally ill to be a criminal.
Your channel is excellent, fascinating. I like that you explore crime-oriented psychology but also things like this. A full range of unusual (or not-so unusual) behaviors.
That and the dead-pan jokes are great. 🤣
I love it when psychopaths finally get exposed for who they really are.
I love this pronunciation of "Theranos" like it's a Pokemon.
Pretty amazing he can't pronounce it correctly.
@@markrigg6623 I know! How did he watch a 2-hour documentary on Theranos and STILL manage to mispronounce it?!
Keep wanting to say Thanatos the greek god of death.
'Their anus' + 'poke a man' there and you'll get money.
Isnt it mind blowing that someone can build a company with 7-800 employees without selling one single product?
Absolutely nutty
Well, if you don't have technical expertise, you can't evaluate her claims. You'd think high-profile folks like those on her board would have hired an expert, though.
And the company was performing medical tests, just not using her vaunted "new technology".
Plus I don't think you can ignore the appeal of a beautiful young woman; it sometimes causes people to act in illogical ways.
Very clear and articulate analysis Dr. Grande. I am though, still convinced that her deep voice is deepened, and she is unusually relentless in keeping it that way for a such a long time. I heard a part of a podcast she attended where she lapsed to a lighter voice, very convincing that she didn't just lapse, but lapsed back
I love your program Dr Grande!!!