As a man who has struggled with homosexuality all my life, at times I wanted to accept that I could go to heaven if I were to pursue that lifestyle. The more I wanted to accept I could be gay the more I was convicted and the angrier I became at God. I eventually strayed from religion all together for YEARS. Now I’m 21, still pretty young, but I gave my life back to God on November 1st. I still struggle with same sex attraction, frankly I think I’m going to struggle with it for a while but that’s not my worries right now. I give God thanks for giving me that free will but I give it back to him because anything not for him I do not want.
Hey!! I saw your comment and I feel so inadequate when writing this, scared I do not have the right words you might need. I am praying the Lord will guide me and use me as an encouragement. I just wanted to say you are loved and seen and not alone in your struggle. My soul rejoices in the fact you gave your life to God and living for Him again! The Lord is with you and you are under no obligation to live according to your flesh. (Romans 8:12) The Lord is your strength and loves you. Lean into Him and through trials you will build endurance. I am praying for you❤️don’t give up
Thank you for sharing xchorro. God is good and worth more than all the world has to offer - even infinitely so. Glad to hear you have given your life to Christ. If you are His child, by faith, He will keep you to the end. He does not lose any of His sheep. Trust in God alone through Jesus Christ our Lord!
Wonderful testimony, brother. When you draw nigh to God, He will draw nigh to you. As you go through sanctification, I can only pray that it will become easier for you, or at least more of an automatic habit to reject the sinful thoughts..
““Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it.” Matthew 7:13
Funny how folks from every Christian denomination uses passages like this to condemn anyone from any other Christian denomination. How do you know your version is the right one?
@@theroguejester6412 Because denomination is seperation. Where do you read about other denominations in the bible? Wasnt Paul upset that people were claiming to be from different men and he said is Christ divided? Christ is not divided, the only division is between those who serve God and serve satan.
Major Wolf Historical records get more shoddy and harder to find and interpret the farther back we go. The question remains, how do we determine who’s interpretation of events and Biblical commands is correct?
I don’t think the truth “hurts” in the way the pastor described people being injured by conservative churches. The truth saves. If people are living a lifestyle that is in open rebellion against God, then the truth is the most loving thing we can give them because we want them to repent and not spend eternity in damnation.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. RSV Only-monos God-theos Monos theos Monotheism The Father Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)! Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God! Jesus has a God! Jesus died! God can’t die! God raised Jesus from the dead!
@@mitchellc4 Is Yahoshua Hamashiac wasn’t God, then (1) why did he accept praise on numerous occasions, as well as (2) claim “Before Abraham, I am”. To the second point, I’ll give you the answer. God told Moses his name was Ehyah ashen Ehyah, the Hebrew for “Iam that I am/I am who I am.”
@Matt Thoen Who is Jesus’s God?’ The God of our Lord Jesus Christ as Paul says Rom 15 6 that together you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Cor 1 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, 2 Cor 11 31 The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, he who is blessed for ever, knows that I do not lie. Eph 1 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, Eph 1 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, Col 1 3 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, 1 Pet 1 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
@@andriod090 Who is Jesus’s God? The God of our Lord Jesus Christ as Paul says 31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and of this he has given assurance to all men by raising him from the dead.”
I don't understand why the NEW Evangelical views are considered conservative. The word "New" represents a new teaching that is more than just progressive it is digressive. It changes the direction of Christianity. I have read all the early Christians and the New Evangelicals definitely use the Bible to support their world view.
I completely agree. At one point I think the progressive guy said something about man being a single celled organism, which sounds like a promotion to Evolution? Maybe I heard him wrong, but either way there is nothing progressive about true faith in Christ. “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever”. Hebrews 13:8
Respectfully, "PROGRESSIVE Christianity" IS NOT Christianity...its something that wants to appear spiritual without actually being accountable to the standards and truths in God's Word. Sorry, but the truth of God's Word makes people uncomfortable, and angry and put-off as it should because it makes us aware of our biggest problem - which is sin.
A lot of Bible “scholars” and “theologians” teach that the Bible is not infallible, and a LOT of pastors take these teachings and believe them to be true. If you watch Michael Hoggard’s video on The Case For A Pure Bible, he talks about why people believe this way and refutes it. It’s a must watch!
@@natepickering Bashing him isn’t going to solve anything. Bashing him isn’t going to convince anyone he’s leading them to hell. If you actually care, you’d do something a bit more creative
@@oj5015 For clarity 100% of the Bible was written by man. 🤭 All those men were filled with the presence of our Holy God so that ALL of the word of God is God inspired and God breathed. And scripture is extremely clear about it being from Gods eternal standards.
@@markwindell3898 If you use Scripture in a way that harms others to the point where they hurt or even kill themselves because they don't even feel worthy of love, how can you sit there and call yourself a follower of Christ? "Love does no harm to a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfillment of the law..."
@@theroguejester6412 try taking away a needle from a heroin addict. They will certainly be pissed off, and may even end their lives but doesn’t mean what you’ve done was to harm - in fact, it was to do the opposite. You may not be doing harm to someone by leaving them to do what they want but you are certainly allowing them to harm themselves, which isn’t particularly loving.
"For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear." 2 Timothy 4:3-4
NEW Evangelical teach that all you have to do is say some magic words and you can be saved from God's punishment. They follow there own desires becoming gluttons, storing treasures on earth.
Just curious, do you or someone you know not follow your own desires sometimes! Are you one of those holier than thou! See the problem is that I do get that progressive christianity does not have a solid foundation but are you gonna tell me that the alternative is self rightous talk!
@@jacobwood614 it is a word of God. God didn’t stop speaking. His most powerful and sharpest one is the one we are living in. He spoke the universe into motion.
Hey Everything Everson! If the goal of the video was to debate the Bible, then I'd agree with you. Skip! However, the goal was simply to model charitable, good-faith conversation between people who believer very differently. If that interests you, then watch! If not, all good!
@@mrcolbymartin Hey Colby, thanks for engaging here. I sort of agree with the other guy. I was disappointed because I was genuinely looking to find someone who seem to believe the Scriptures for what they are and still believe that homosexuality was not a sin. I guess if you have two pastors up for a debate, if as Christians we get our beliefs from the word of God, we were not expecting a liberal theologian here. We were expecting someone who held fast to the Scriptures and maybe interpreted them a different way. Also, yes, Christians have misinterpreted scripture along history… I have done the same. Ha ha. But, I’m interested in how those specific scriptures that speak against homosexuality can be misunderstood. People use scripture and twisted it to promote slavery… Their application was off… Because they did not understand the culture or the context. I think that is very different to the homosexuality verses. Can you please enlighten me and let me know how you perceive the verses on homosexuality?
We can't know God comprehensively, as he is an infinite, timeless being beyond our senses. However, we can know what God has revealed about himself in scripture and in his creation. The PC understands the first statement and tends to forget the second. The CC understands the second statement and tends to forget the first.
John 10:1 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
Have you ever studied the history of the Bible? Written by dozens of different authors the council of nicea assembled it's structure heavily edited by the ethiopian, orthodox and catholic churches. Original manuscripts are missing and so much has been lost or changed during the translation process.
@@ericreingardt2504 there’s absolutely no proof the Bible has been changed like you say, that’s simply an opinion. The King James Version is almost word for word from the Greek and mind you much of the New Testament was written in Greek originally. God is all powerful and all knowing, he’s kept his Word pure for us to digest. Many of the versions after the King James are tampered with, do to the fact they had to be edited a certain percentage before they could obtain a copyright and make money off them.
@@malachipratton5145 buddy, the proof is on my side in this debate. You're the one with the opinion. Look up saint jerome who picked and chose the arrangement of the bible. Look up the council of nicea. Look up the many errors and edits greek monks and scribes made. Look up the many edits the eastern orthodox church made and look up the edits the roman catholic church made. All of this happened before the Bible was even translated into old English (wycliffe) and then modern english and even then scribes and monks took some liberties and translation. You need to look at the Bible critically or you'll always be confused and frustrated.
This was so hard to watch.. As a born again Christian of 5 months, I came out of 16 years of gay living. I don't need a pastor to tell me it's okay when it's not. SMH. God Bless You Both. Thank you Owen
Pistis, the word Paul uses when the translations render it "faith", means in Greek also faithfulness. But in the political context, it means allegiance. And Christ=christos=annointed one means the Messianic King and lord=kyrios was the shorthand term for the Roman emperor. What do I want to say? The phrase "faith in Christ" means not a set of convictions, but "allegiance", and allegiance without obedience is not possible. Therefore I want to encourage you in your fighting the good fight and I highly recommend you Matthew Bates "Salvation by Allegiance alone. Reconsidering Faith, Works and the Gospel of Jesus the King" or "Gospel Allegiance. What faith in Jesus misses for salvation in Christ." Excellent books. And if you are interested in the dephts of the Gospel how it was meant by Paul, dive deeper into the "new Perspective on Paul", starting on wikipedia. Saving faith is obedient in struggling-faith.
Welcome to life. We all struggle with one thing or another. For some it's sexuality and for others it's something else. Stay the course and continue to call on the One who gave Himself for you. Even when we slip, give in, fall short, or whatever, call out to Him. When we are weak, He is strong. When our faith falters, His remains. He is our advocate and sustainer. If we didn't struggle and face defeat from time to time, we would not need One who stands on our behalf. The fact that your struggle with this is a good sign that the author of our salvation is at work. Stay strong in the Lord friend. Blessings to you and know that I am praying for you right now 🙏
@Patrick Obert Nkala Morality is decided by God but that doesn't mean there isn't a place for talking about your experiences, your thoughts or what has worked for you.
Im soo glad im Catholic....you can reference ANYTHING, that's backed up upon back up! GEEZ these guys are just dancing around on what "they think"...terrible terrible theology. Just my opinion. Then the guy on the right says >>> " "how can we really trust the bible, at the end of the day?" really?
You know its sad because I didn't know I was being progressive. I was being led by my emotions and now I'm glad the Lord has put this intense desire to be in the word and has called me out of the lie I was in. It has taken time but he is patient, I'm now seeing this and all I can say if pray for this man who believes a lie and may God have mercy
The fact that the Lord hates sin and that will never change. When you are at a place where all they care about is the #'s and start saying things like "Jesus paid for all your sins, so if you sin thats ok, no biggie" thats a huge issue. I was, like the scriptures say, going after my own lusts and views, seeking after teachings that my itching ears wanted to hear turning away from the truth. If you are not willing to let go of sin in your life, then you are not believing in the Jesus who died to be the salvation for humanity. The bible does not contradict itself, Jesus was in the beginning with God and Holy Spirit and they made male and female.
@@calb4650 First of all, there are plenty of Biblical contradictions. The first two chapters of Genesis tell contradictory creation stories. Also, I'm curious why God grants sexually fulfilling relationships to straight people but not to gay people. Why is a relationship only a sin when a gay person desires it?
Murdering babies lying in their cribs isn't moral. Sneaking in to someone's home and killing them, and proclaiming all their lands and possessions to be a gift from God is wrong no matter what book says it is good. That is absolutely true. Conservatism advocates the destruction of the earth, through greed and violence. One good passage from the bible states that God will destroy all those who destroy the earth. But conservatives cling to the idea that they should poison everything and kill all living things for their pleasure. The arrogance and violence of conservatism will absolutely be its demise.
More like Christian vs Agnostic. Bearded guy kept saying "if there is some transcent being" and "some guy in the sky". Also he kept talking about Christians have gotten it wrong in the past so there's no way we can be sure we're right now. And we can't really tell what's good and bad. But then he goes on to say we are to judge people by their good fruit. If there is no objective standard, how would we know what's good fruit?
FYI- some LGBTQ+ advocacy efforts are directed towards changing the culture and beliefs on homosexuality of the christian church from within. If you follow lgbtq politics and their some of their organizations, you’ll understand these are Organized and deliberate efforts
@Ptolemy 1 Nothing is forced on you. You have free will to obey the Word of God or to disregard it. Each choice has it's own ending. God helped me in my sexuality and His Word is very convicting, but His love is extremely uplifting and powerful. God is merciful. That is why He sent down His Son Jesus to die for our sins (and He was buried and rose again on the 3rd day) so that we can be born again and enter into the Kingdom of God. The depression and suicide rates are very high within the LGBTQ community and it saddens me. Sadly, asking people to validate false claims on our perspective or emotions won't fix anything because even then, many have taken their own lives after said validation. Only truth in love can help heal someone. Living in a lie is damaging and that has killed more people than it has ever saved. Seek the Word of God and reach out to God in genuine prayer. He will answer you. And read Romans 1 as it may help you understand a bit more. I recommend KJV. When it comes to salvation, please give these verses a read! Romans 10:9-10; 1 John 1:8-9; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Acts 2:38. 🙏🏼🌻💛
@@Cal1177 That does not answer ANY of my questions. The bible has numerous translations that CONTRADICT each other, christians say that their are translations that are more RELIABLE than others yet it contradicts its claim to be perfect, and does not have original authentic COMPLETE manuscripts that go back the earliest of the century.
@@dathip I think that you are assuming that all translations are equally reliable and accurate. This is not the case. For example, the Message translation does a great job of evoking emotion but is further from the original Greek than the NIV.
One guy opens with his testimony remembering how he was convicted of his sin and the other guy doesn't. I'm always leery of Christians who don't mention their sinfulness in their testimony. If there's no sin, then Christ died needlessly
@@tomasmccauley569 Tomas, nobody says everything about us is sin, sin, sin. It is a matter of your choice. God has no hand here. If you choose; yes choose to walk away from sin and embrace holy living, then go ahead. We are told that the Bible contains God's word and commandments; not our word. Sodomy is clearly described in the Bible as an abomination. If we are the clay and He, the Potter, we have to obey Him. Sadly today, we place emphasis on pleasing the clay instead of the Potter. That is Humanism. So if obeying the texts of the Bible makes one sad, the solution is to bring the flesh under subjection by refusing to please it. 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. [25] And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. [26] I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: [27] But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."
I m not here to comment on theology but just embracing the respect and honour that these two have for each other. I wish we could have more people like this in this world where we could share our opinions, believe, faith and conviction in this manner. Thanks for sharing this conversation!
I’m watching this as a struggling Christian trying to figure out how exactly God wants us to live and interpret things. I have lately had a tendency to value some of the more progressive ideas, thinking there should be a more “inclusive” way to lead people to Christ. However, after watching this, I see that this way of thinking is actually pretty dangerous and not at all biblical....
You nailed it. The proper way to lead people to Jesus is through relationships. We never see Jesus walking up to someone telling them they need to accept Him or go to hell. We see Him developing relationships with people and loving on them. We need to be the hands and feet of Jesus. I’m glad you see that progressive Christianity is not Christianity at all. The Bible has everything we need. It’s the Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth! It is not a book of rules! It’s a book of salvation! And It’s an instruction manual to guide us to a better life!
My thing is if you’re too comfortable as a converting Christian in a church that doesn’t convict you fully then that church is most likely off the word because a true convert would not want to feel comfortable in their sin
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. RSV Only-monos God-theos Monos theos Monotheism The Father Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)! Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God! Jesus has a God! Jesus died! God can’t die! God raised Jesus from the dead!
@@mitchellc4 there will come a day and not too far from now when you will wander over RUclips searching for these comments you make. Desiring strongly to delete them all.
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6, ESV).
@@mitchellc4 youve missed the full counsel of God (as we learn from Acts and 2 Timothy) on who Jesus is as Messiah; you are partly right but gravely wrong. I agree with Quinner 85's verses as help as to why Jesus is both God and man (God can die and not die) while he was on earth (on His own humble accord as we learn from Hebrews).
17:45 Didn’t take long before this “progressive christian” denied he was even created by God’s design. It is straight heresy to deny a basic aspect of who God is: the eternal creator of all. Truly mind-boggling some people convince themselves this is still Christianity.
@@Eyemredeemed Hey Amy! Good news, I studied apologetics for years. Rest assured, I know it all pretty well (meaning, the traditional arguments for the conservative position on homosexuality). But I do agree with you, I hope that my new friend Owen will take this honest and sincere discussion and perhaps one day be spurred on to question his conclusions, too.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. RSV Only-monos God-theos Monos theos Monotheism The Father Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)! Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God! Jesus has a God! Jesus died! God can’t die! God raised Jesus from the dead!
Over the years I've tried coming to Christ multiple times only to be pushed away by hateful Christians. The comments are making me feel this way once again, but this time I'm not going to walk away. I will have my own relationship with God and will not allow the hate to drive me away once again. I feel that I need to stay close to God but distance myself from a majority of his followers.
@JeremyH-qq8wf nah, hate is throwing homosexuals off of buildings as is currently being done in areas of the middle east. Christian love is telling a fellow believer when they are in danger. We are told explicitly to judge our brothers and sisters in Christ, and to not participate in what the Bible calls sin. Somehow, not affirming sin is hateful?
Ya, someone who wants to love his or her fellow man, but has to dance around all the ugly ignorant hatred that is in the bible, and still pretend to believe in its primitive origin.
@@jestanuthername I said "in the bible". Where is anything that could be mistaken for love and compassion be found where a primitive book tells its readers to murder another human being for how they were born? No real supernatural entity would be that ignorant and hateful.
“For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.” 2 Timothy 4:3 NIV Guy with the beard fulfills this verse.
isiah 30 8-19 was written as a prophesy of Judah, if your interested go read it and you will also see the same idea as 2 Tim 4:3. the intricacies of Gods word is so vast
@@geargem2047 Which bits are sound, again, and what was meant to happen to Jews, post Matthew 27:25. Also, how does death deter Eve if she does not understand death; or obedience, with no idea of good, and evil. And has not this errancy, or similar ones, dated back much further, than a few latter days?
How have you determined that your doctrine is sound? Is it because it is the most popular? If so, consider doctrine of the past that was ubiquitous and then changed by people like Martin Luther. Christians have stopped burning witches, leading crusades, and justifying racism. Why should this be the hill you die on?
@Brian Farley Thanks, I appreciate the history lesson but I'm constantly turned off by the absoluteness of any person or organization claiming, quite dogmatically, the monopoly on truth and moral reasoning. Is the progressive pastor a Catholic? Did you know that the vast majority of Catholics and even the Pope himself say they are fine with same-sex relationships and that we all have much more pressing things to worry about?
@Brian Farley "We know the Church has gotten many things wrong before, so we at least have to be open tot he possibility that they can be wrong again." That's a direct quote from the video. What are your thoughts on the errors and mistakes in church history?
@Brian Farley Gonna try to unpack all of your assumptions there. Please bear with me. "you either believe in objective truth or relativism" > False Dichotomy Fallacy, aka Black-and-White Thinking. There are many other beliefs about morality besides these two options. For example, I believe that chess is a completely arbitrary (relative) game, but that within the game itself exists a realm of perfect objectivity. That is, there are moves that will objectively lead you to the goal of winning the game. Secular humanism operates under a similar framework: a realm of empiricism and objectivity within the albeit subjective idea that human well-being is worth valuing. In this sense, I do not subscribe to relativism, nor do I see how the existence of mathematical or scientific measurements demonstrate anything about a god or our relationship with one.
Regardless of the opinions and reactions we would all experience in this conversation, the absolute breakthrough is the conversation happening. These are real questions that deserve exploration and answer. It's not dangerous to ask. It's a wonderful first step to the truth and freedom.
Notice how this pastor is always saying, “for me & what I think,” & the theologian always refers to the Bible. That’s our true & ONLY authority in life. God’s blueprint, not an opinion from some man. The pastor believes in a god he made up, not the God that the Bible speaks of. It’s so sad... this pastor isn’t practicing truth let alone preaching it. Luke 6:39, “And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into a ditch?”
I'm glad you picked up on that, Diana! Thanks for naming it. I spent years using the Bible as the ultimate conversation ender. "The Bible says it, I believe it, end of story." What I failed to understand, however, is that it never is that simple. Whenever we claim to speak for the Bible, we will always have a layer (or layers) of interpretation. So I've made a commitment to be more honest about that in my speech. Rather than say "the Bible says," (which ACTUALLY means, "here's what I've been taught the Bible says"), instead I now humbly acknowledge that these are MY thoughts/opinions/beliefs/perspectives/etc. I can understand how that sounds unsettling to people who are accustomed to hearing preachers claim some sort of objective truth. But I am really, REALLY, far away from being wise enough to do that. So in the meantime, I'll stick with humbly offering my thoughts. Thanks for listening.
@@mrcolbymartin Colby, honest question: Isn't following the way of Jesus using God's word as an absolute authority? Isn't that exactly what He did? How, in your mind, do you separate that from the Jesus you believe you are following?
@@rdrift1879 thanks for the question. You ask, "isn't following the way of Jesus using God's word as absolute authority? Isn't that exactly what he (Jesus) did?" Actually, no. Jesus didn't use the bible (which is what I'm assuming you mean by "God's word," correct?) as his absolute authority. From what we can ascertain through the Gospel accounts, he likely used a combination of Jewish tradition, and inner-wisdom, as well as their sacred texts, all as sources of what you might call "authority" for his life. So for me, to follow the way of Jesus, is to tread a similar path.
@@mrcolbymartin Well, I don't think any objective reader of the Gospels would agree with you that Jesus did not regard God's word as His absolute authority. I don't know how anyone can miss that. I would encourage you to read through the Gospels again with that idea specifically in mind, and see if you are, indeed, treading His path.
@@mrcolbymartin great job and thank you for explaining this. My grandmother has taken Bible study fellowship classes for 20 years or more and she 100% agrees with every bit of what you said and that’s always been her advice to us that when you’re talking about what you understand the Bible to mean vs what the Bible says you always need to make a difference of it. In actuality that’s all any of us are doing is making our best attempt at understanding and interpreting a two thousand year old book that we weren’t around for when it was written. I think it’s also important to note that many people wanna take the Bible word for word as authority and then cherry pick around the verses that don’t fit their narrative. Also really appreciate your book I read it and it helped me tremendously with my own faith and identity and I gave one to my grandparents and parents and it’s changed everyone’s opinions on the topic of homosexuality. And thanks to that, my fiancé and I are able to be comfortable, celebrated, accepted and supported by my family. That has led to them telling even more family and friends about your book and them changing their minds as well. My cousin is a youth pastor also who wants a copy of it to be able to help her youth and understand them better. One by one you affected a whole family of people! Thank you for your words and being bold!
You have to give respect to Pastor Owen for his gentleness and meekness even when he knows this guy is clearly contradicting himself. Let’s pray that God use this dialogue to open his eyes to the truth 🙏🏾
Legit, I was so impressed with how he kept his cool and train of thought on track the entire conversation. It kept me in suspense like, "Ooooh how he gonna handle that one? :O "
Yeah! It really struck me how nearly everything he described as a personal belief he holds could be ascribed to new age belief, yet he calls himself a Christian. 🤯 It really is mind blowing, the amount of redefining of terms in this post modern age. It's as if we're living in an upside down world. Jesus, come!
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. RSV Only-monos God-theos Monos theos Monotheism The Father Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)! Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God! Jesus has a God! Jesus died! God can’t die! God raised Jesus from the dead!
Notice how he's mumbling and bumbling and the other guy is clear and exact in his answers.. I'm sorry but Progressive Christian people I've just don't feel are correct doctrinal.. they're trying to fit God into their own thinking.. I watched girl God is grey and Ruslan have a conversation and she's not even clear about what she believes she said she doesn't go on her feelings but when she was speaking of homosexuality she said "well I think" ....not well the Bible says
@@monicanewell1567 It all depends how you view the Bible. One way is to see it as the “Word of God” and “inspired by God” which suggests that the Bible is a divine product as no other book is. Another way of seeing the Bible is as the human product of two ancient communities. The OT is the product of ancient Israel, and the NT is the product of the early Christian movement. As the product of these two communities, the Bible tells us about how they saw things- how they thought about God and told their stories. This is the result of modern biblical scholarship over the last three centuries. Though it was known mostly in scholarly circles until recently, this approach is now being embraced by many mainline Christians. The Bible is the “Word of God” in this sense: in its function, not in its origin.
The progressive was wright about the interpretation argument. The non progressive never really answered the question just talked around it. He clams that you always as to take the Bible litteraly yet a huge part of the Bible are parables something that is not literal. So how can something be completely objective when a huge chunk of it is open to interpretation. Also it blows my mind how many people are saying that this man is not a Christian. It’s not your place to decide wether he is or not. That between him and god not you. And it’s nobody’s place to say who is and isn’t a Christan. That’s god’s job
I'm a Baptist and I've never been afraid of asking questions. I'm sad that he felt he couldn't ask questions. I was fortunate to be able to grow in my faith by asking questions.
I’m a Baptist too, and same here. There are a lot of crazy stereotypes about Baptists but I think that’s because fundamentalist evangelicals tend to take the Bible very seriously.
Growing up my family, pastor, and teachers (I went to private Christian School) never allowed questions. Eventually, I was old enough to research my questions myself and fully understand what I read. I'm an atheist now. It worked really well for them I think 🙄
@@inaraoftyria3878 That’s a shame questions are looked down on. Whenever a child (or anyone, really) asks a spiritual question I am very happy! I think there are a lot of Christians working to change that flaw in our culture.
@@inaraoftyria3878 that's a sad story, there are questions that need answers, without them it's just blind faith, which more dangerous than unbelief. I pray that you find people who can answer your questions and build your faith on a strong foundation. God bless you.
I graduated from Pensacola Christian College and almost was expelled by writing a term paper question the views of the schools music policies. I remember questioning the concept of Faith as being a leap into the unknown. I did not see that as a good way to go about believing in something.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. RSV Only-monos God-theos Monos theos Monotheism The Father Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)! Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God! Jesus has a God! Jesus died! God can’t die! God raised Jesus from the dead!
This could have been 6 hours long. Each of their foundations was so radically different than the other’s that they never had time to develop a common footing (if there was one). On a side note, How can someone call themselves a Christian and not believe in a Personal, Self-existent God? Call yourself what you are: a spiritually minded agnostic.
He does claim to believe in a person self existent God. Funny.. he just recently did a video with Sean Mcdowell.. and he admits his personal relationship with God is something he has lost since going down the progressive path.
So Yuo guys doesn't use logic in your life? Where the intelligence come from? this creation is beautiful created in order. Evolution itself is not intelligent 🤓 of course there is a Powerful creator and designer of all. 📖✝️💙👌
“The Christian religion has done a lot of great for the world and a lot of atrocities” no sir, the good was done by Christ through himself and fallen people saved by grace who allowed Him to use them for His glory, and the atrocities were done by fallen people who distorted the gospel and used it for their own glory
But why would He WANT IT to become ABLE to be distorted, even on the major level of Popes, theologians, bishops, editors and inquisitors, @Hanna Grace Ciacelli ? For who's free will, is that to serve? What of all those they ended up spreading the word to, or seeking to convert? Were they to receive bad evangelism, relative to other, luckier ones? And Matthew 5:18, I'm sorry, is still technically Matthew 5:18.
@@chrissonofpear1384 "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, nor the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law, UNTIL EVERYTHING IS ACCOMPLISHED. **Anyone** who breaks one of the least of these commandments **and teaches others to do the same** will be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven."- Jesus of Nazareth (Matt 5:18-19) We have a problem that arises with the widespread interpretation of this verse which I'm assuming that you hold, Chris. "When they finished, James spoke up: "Brothers, listen to me. Simon (Peter) has described to us how God at first showed his concern by taking from the Gentiles a people for himself. The words of the Prophets are in agreement with this... ...it is my judgement, therefore, that we should not make it too difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality (pornea), from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath." It goes on to say in verse 28: "It seemed **good to the Holy Spirit** and to us...[James, Peter, Paul, Barnabas, Judas and Silas] to not burden you with anything beyond the following requirements..." These are excerpts from the Book of Acts 15:13-29 that you're undoubtedly famliar with. If we take what Christ Jesus said in Matthew 5:18-19 then it is only logical to conclude that James, Peter, Paul, etc, are all the least in the Kingdom of Heaven, since they are teaching others to break the Law of Moses, dispensing not only with the Jot and tittles, but most of the 613 Mitzvot of the Torah. But I hold the theology that the Apostles of Christ cannot contradict him, and therefore this must make us reassess our assumptions about his very clear command regarding the Law. I can only conclude that the "get out clause" has been enacted: "UNTIL EVERYTHING IS ACCOMPLISHED." This can only mean the death of Christ and his resurrection, where he said "It is finished." Otherwise we have no alternative but to believe that the key Apostles of Christ disobeyed him after his ascension and after they had received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. Or they have known the meaning of Jesus words regarding this verse intimately, and are applying it correctly.
@@dr.graves5541 Are we clear on the very sharp line that delineates between the Old Covenant between Ancient Israel and Judah in the Law of Moses written in the Old Testament, and the New Covenant between God and his elect from among the Jews and the Gentiles written in the New Testament, and that the New Covenant mediated by Christ requires the participants in that Covenant to imitate the example of Christ and his Apostles exclusively? Jesus led no earthly revolution neither did he commit any fatal acts of violence, and there is no record of any of the Apostles committing violence in the First Century Church, but Jesus commanded them in Matthew 10:23, "When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another..." We have commands to emulate Christ and the Apostles in the New Testament, which is the Christian Manifesto, but only to remember the Old Covenant from which we are saved by the grace of God through the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus. Sadly, a long list of Popes, Cardinals, Bishops, Inquisitors, Crusaders and Pastors throughout history failed to undestand what is very plainly written in the New Testament, especially in the Book of Hebrews on this, and in the Letters of Paul.
@@TwizzElishus Jesus wasn't a bad guy. He did kill a tree supposedly for not having ripe fruit once. But like father like son throwing tantrums like a child, which if you read the Bible, God throws tantrum after tantrum. Something a real God would never do.
To the progressive “pastor”, sorry, but it’s not about the “for me” or “I feel”. This is about how God has created And how he designed them to operate. You can’t take Christianity and shape it to fit your agenda.
@@mrcolbymartin I’m not religious because of people not like you. Your spot on. Most Evangelicals love Trump but hate homosexuals That’s just insane I do like you take.
@@jconner3891 "love Trump but hate homosexuals". Because God "says" to hate homosexuals, but speaking the truth is something that The Bible prides itself on.
I really appreciate that in this day and age two people can sit down and have a conversation on a topic they disagree on in a way that still is respectful and calm. Thank you, Anchored North!
I agree in a way Tiffany, but it's sad to me that no member of the actual LGBTQI+ community was invited to the discussion. It's like having a discussion about women's rights and roles in the church without having a woman present to give personal input.
@@mrcolbymartin Jesus died to take the place of those who believe in Him and turn from the world to follow Him. He took the cross to take the repercussion for what God warned Adam would happen if he ate what was forbidden. For disbelieving God. Jesus died so we wouldn't have to. He physically rose from death to give us hope that we too would physically rise from death. Bodily. Your paradigm of how you view the world through believing the theory of universal common descent has clouded your ability to understand why Jesus died. If you don't believe that God made Adam and Eve in the beginning, and we are fallen because we inherit death from our ancestor Adam... you will never understand being born again and inheriting life through Jesus. May God open your eyes like the man in John chapter 9 who you reference in your writings. Jesus is more beautiful than you know.
@@timq78 why would that have any impact on the discussion and subject, every day we all speak and have opinions outside of our field or lane, does that make us all invalid or disqualified?
@@patrickambler749 awesome Patrick, how true, this movement is deceitful, they are not “progressive Christians” by definition in fact they are the opposite, they are “ universal idolatrous pagans”
He refers to God a “this being” and to the the Bible as “some sources of divine document” that means that he is not even a true believer of God. End of the story.
The bearded one is at best a “New Age Spiritualist” He would want to throw doubt on the Word in order to coddle hedonistic idolatry. Imagine leaning on your own understanding..without a leg to stand on. Smh
That’s why is scripture (especially the writings of the apostles) we see a clear picture of them saying the proper doctrine should be handed down. When you read the Bible for yourself without care if the doctrine that was taught by Jesus to the apostles you get false doctrine. The bearded guy would benefit greatly from a study of the history of the church and the doctrines of the apostolic fathers. He would see that his views are outside of the true Christian doctrine. You can’t read the Bible with your own mind. Doctrine is important
@@OfficiallyXgotcha34 Actually you can read the bible and get understanding of what it actually teaches for the most part without doctrine (for example you can get the doctrine of the trinity without knowing it if you read the bible), the problem is that people read in what they want to read into the scripture.
Pretty much the same for me I got out of it a couple years back I’m still a teen but before I would make my own image of god to make myself feel comfortable in sin because the truth does hurt when you become comfortable in sin
To be honest, they BOTH referred to “ a being” several times. And they BOTH were talking about how they interpret the Gospel. I thought they were gonna talk scriptures
“christians need to be careful of misusing the Bible” guy on the right: “haha trueeee” guy on the right 15 minutes prior: “i don’t think there’s a holy writing that tells us how we’re supposed to live” (not his exact words but you get my message :)
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. RSV Only-monos God-theos Monos theos Monotheism The Father Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)! Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God! Jesus has a God! Jesus died! God can’t die! God raised Jesus from the dead!
@@Maksie0 as Christians we need to be accountable for keeping each other in check. That can also mean calling out false prophets. Ur right tho. Bashing might not be the word I’m looking for
Key word is “claims” to be. A lot of people claim to be things but authentic Christianity isn’t something that is up to how you feel. Authentic Christianity has already been decided and declared by Christ’s life, word, and resurrection! Let the church say Amen.
The fact that his facial expression stays the same the whole time is amazing. My jaw would have been on the floor with most of his responses and my eyes rolling 80% of the time. This guy CLEARLY does not know Jesus, doesnt read the bible nor teach out of it.
Should be titled “Guy who knows what he’s talking about vs Guy who makes things up as he goes” or “Guy who forms himself around God vs Guy who forms God around himself”
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. RSV Only-monos God-theos Monos theos Monotheism The Father Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)! Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God! Jesus has a God! Jesus died! God can’t die! God raised Jesus from the dead!
Exactly! And that's the issue nowadays with the so called "progressive ""Christians"". They're not Christians if they adapt parts of the word of God to their own thinking. Sad but not surprising, God foretold these things would happen. Even so it saddens me a lot.
@@mitchellc4 Then fill in the f***ing gaps, including in the fate of Achan's kids, and when any angel could alter or impair other angels spiritually, before birth, using their free will - as Eve did to humans. To not yet, born, humans.
It's not wishy-washy gospel. It is not Gospel at all. This is heresy, plain and simple. Truth is not determined by my personal feelings about it, or about the people who struggle with it.
I would say that the progressive does not acknowledge God at all. At one point even parrots the serpent in that God was holding back knowledge from man. The conversation was useful in that it was revealing what a progressive believes
Don't forget the part of the verse that says, and Lean not on your own understanding, BUT in all your ways acknowledge him. The man in the black shirt was relying heavily on his own understanding
Believe what your are told, question nothing, and live a life dictated by some 2000 year old book. Don't you realise you've all been indoctrinated??? You can break free from nonsensical religious and still be spiritual. The bible was not written by god, we cannot understand what god is. For you to think the bible is word of god is absolute is crazy, THINK people THINK
actually this way is better, they have real christian views instead of the diluted views that are mostly unbiblical views and do not represent the Bible stance on many issues rather their own perceptions.
@Jadon Frick if u neeed the bible to tell u how to be a good person then that you that’s not everyone, Christ conscious ppl know Christ n his heart not the biggots who edited the bible, I find it hard to believe Jesus hated gays that’s coming from a straight person. Death is certain for everyone so when u die hope it is really what u think I hope ur following ur scriptures word for word have a great day
At Anonymous, saying that someone doesn't know what the Scriptures say is not judgemental at all; in fact, it is quite true. Besides that, in 1 CORINTHIANS 6, Paul (through revelation by Holy Spirit says that we [Believers in Jesus- Christ, will judge angels so then how much more a mere human being? Now, I qualify this by expanding that we [Believers in Jesus- Christ] are to make "right" judgements (meaning, judgement based in righteousness ,wisdom, and grace).
@Anonymous I agree. However, that's not what actually happened. After watching Part 1 and Part 2, it is apparent that "Progressive" guy doesn't have his facts straight; and therefore, is not in a position to speak incorrectly about Scripture. Therefore, a "gentle rebuke" was necessary. "'Progressive's"' mind was made up long before he entered Into that conversation
The Christian man cracks me up just sitting there grunting like “yes, I’m going to pretend like you’re making sense. Furthermore, here’s some truth from the Bible.”
Riiiight. He said how can we know what God's expectations are?? I was like cuz he wrote em out to us! And this man the most gentle and descriptive response ever back...baisicly the bible
I’m literally so confused because he claimed to be a Christian in the beginning right? But everything he says is so far from this..... He said a lot but there was no substance. Just glancing on a multitude of topics without any real benefit to himself or the conversation at hand......
Born into a Christian family. I once thought I was a Christian too. It took me about 10 years of struggle until I actually became one. Claiming to be someone doesn't always prove one to be so. Its like the parable about where the seed falls, it might seem so for a little while but only time shows..
@@daniilkrivov4764 And what was the deciding factor, why is the gate out of this world narrow - but the one for, disloyal, delusional angels, broad - and what was meant, to happen to Jews, post 1 Corinthians 10, and Matthew 27:25 - if I may?
@@chrissonofpear1384 Also, it seems I left a mess my first comment. I left the Christian faith to seek the truth for myself since I couldn't understand why other religions or view points were not valid. So at that point I was never really Christian, since that thought was even possible. Later, in trying to find God and experiencing certain hardships, crisis and anxiety as well as observing it in others who did not live by the faith is when Jesus started to speak to me for the first time.
I was just thinking the exact same thing. It's refreshing that so many are so strongly opposed to the progressive "Christian" and recognizing it a no Christianity at all
@@jamiecarson2896 The Bible and the religion itself doesn’t encourage homophobia. It’s the “Christians” that think being homophobic is God’s will that encourage and teach it. I promise you these same people in the comments that are talking do way nastier things than you think.
@@jamiecarson2896 Christianity does not encourage hate of any kind. As Christians we are taught to hate the sin, not the sinner. In other words, hate the act of homosexuality but still love everyone, including homosexuals.
@@camerong5513 Well, considering that He provided His inspired Word to share the Law, the Gospel, and ultimately His Nature; we can certainly gain a better grasp (as much as is possible).
I don’t know how you can claim to be a Christian pastor and not believe in God.....or the Bible. It is literally the only unchanging truth that we have to hold on to. Without it, there is no compass. This makes me so sad! 😢
This unchanging truth you speak of allowed the inquisition, acceptance of slavery, burning of witches. And these people were sure that it was truth. What the bearded man is highlighting is that, just because we think our interpretation of the Bible is true, so did everyone else in the past who messed up. If you look at the fruits of these bigoted beliefs you can see how they don't line up to Jesus's actions, yet they were so sure of themselves. People today are doing the exact same thing.
People today are and I would say wrong. The Bible talks about cutting your right off if it sins. God said he would spew the lukewarm out of his mouth... meaning People who are just easy going standing up for nothing, for everything. That is what this Woke Pastor is!
@Paul Fears no where in the Bible does it accept slavery or anything you mentioned. where us humans get it wrong is when we try to use the Bible to Justify our earthly desires rather than letting the Bible change them. Christians back then who used the Bible to justify slavery are just as bad as Christians now who use the Bible to justify different sins like homosexuality and other sins. It doesn’t matter how we think to interpret the Bible, because we as humans are flawed. When we read the Bible we have to interpret it with context studying and knowing what the text is actually trying to say.
The dude with the beard contradicts himself so much. Clever “word salads” he mixes up for his own belief system. Does he know Jesus, the Word, the Truth? He’s a pastor? God help us! Deception is rampant in these days.
Ya, you gotta be a vile heartless monster to be a real Christian today. If you actually listen to the words of Christ, you will be rejected, and ridiculed for not supporting the hatred and violence in the rest of the bible. I can only imagine the "word salads that you would come with up to justify the murders in the O.T....
I don't understand where he contradicted himself. But I do think he does not explain his views as clearly as Charles Finney does in his Systematic Theology. Do you know about Charles Finney and his Systematic Theology Book.
@@nayrreztiewhcs1225 Remember salads though not popular are health and natural. Word salads like John Cassian a man who live in the 4th century were not invented because people were so much more peaceful then. They were the natural way they had at explaining the human condition. So saying the violence of the leaving of Egypt and entering the promise land was a metaphor for the conquest of personal human faults is helpful for personal growth.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. RSV Only-monos God-theos Monos theos Monotheism The Father Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)! Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God! Jesus has a God! Jesus died! God can’t die! God raised Jesus from the dead!
FYI- some LGBTQ+ advocacy efforts are directed towards changing the culture and beliefs on homosexuality of the christian church from within. If you follow lgbtq politics and their some of their organizations, you’ll understand these are Organized and deliberate efforts
Love how much wisdom and clarity I see in the comments, but please please pray for this man! If we don't have Love we can understand all things and still be nothing.
@@panaderodegalletas3137 If he doesn't believe in God, he isn't a Christian or a pastor and his congregation isn't a church. He's like a child playing house with his toddler friends, it means nothing.
This is what Marxism is... a lot of sayings and theories that can’t be proven beneficial through the test of time and also amount to more destruction/emptiness than anything
Difficult to understand how someone who says, ""I don't think there is some sort of divine document out there that lays out a Being's preferred order of things" claims to be a Christ-follower. Without the Bible, we are just making up our own religion. Why go to church or listen to a pastor'ss words if they are not backed up by something that is more than them. The truth is that for the progressive Christian here, Religion has stayed yet reality has died.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21 Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. RSV Only-monos God-theos Monos theos Monotheism The Father Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)! Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God! Jesus has a God! Jesus died! God can’t die! God raised Jesus from the dead!
Agreed. Postmodern Leftists only believe in power and conflict between groups. They deceitfully claim they endorse religion but when you dig into their philosophy, they hate it and demonize Christians as in their eyes religion is power to “oppress” minority groups. They use religion as a tool to push their agenda. They ignore universal ideas of Christianity and change them to fit their politics. “Progressive” Christianity is not Christianity. “Social Justice” is not true justice. Love in the Bible is not forced altruism but accountability. And the list goes on...
This all literally ties back to the serpent's lie in the garden of Eden. Genesis 3:5 "For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." We as humans (for a while now) have turned away from God, and started defining good and evil on our own terms, instead of relying on God's wisdom to lead us. Postmodern thinking relies on the basis that truth can be subjective. This is false. There can only be one truth, it's common sense. When we as humans turn away from God, we turn away from objective truth. When we turn away from objective truth (essentially God) we invite evil thoughts, and evil deeds to start polluting our societies, and minds. Ever since the consuming of the forbidden fruit, we have become like God, meaning we have started to define good and evil on our own terms, and are now letting each other run free and liberal, doing all sorts of abominations. The Bible literally ties in the beginning of the world, to how modern America is currently functioning as a whole. Beautifully woven together!
His main argument is: “We can’t know the Truth.” You can know RIGHT THEN that he is not born again.. because Jesus Christ said I am THE Way, THE Truth and THE Life, NO MAN comes to the Father EXCEPT THROUGH ME....
Brennan, I think it's worth noting you don't know this with certainty but there is more evidence in this video for that than not. the idea of this guy referring to himself as "pastor" is absolutely horrifying.
@@dmmusicmusic was not meaning to call him a non-believer in any way. I was making the correlation that maybe 20 years ago these same conversations were being held with non-believers, not fellow pastors.
“Progressive” is not progressive just simply because of the ability to word-smith. If you blatantly deny the existence of God, you can not call yourself a Christian, according to scripture. Maybe a Christian in the sense of a good or spiritual person. But, not a biblical christian. It doesn’t matter what “you think it means”. Our role is not to read into the text what we think it means. Our role is to discover what God is saying to us! Massive difference.
@@4thbrooker What do "you" mean Jesus wasn't a biblical Christian? Christian means follower of Christ and Jesus Christ affirmed that the scriptures (old testament) was God's word. Jesus was a biblical Jew therefore followers of Christ are to be biblical Christians. So I'm not sure what you meant by "Jesus wasn't a biblical Christian."
When the progressive guy says at 18:10 he 'rejects' the idea of God as a being who has a design and plan for people and existence, that pretty much sums it up: he rejects the God revealed and creates his own God in response. Good luck with that.
Why can't you guys take the time to even pay him the respect of using his name, instead of "the progressive guy". Damn, it hurts thinking y'all are representing christ.
I haven't even watched the video yet, but it's so good to see in the comment section that there are many Christians in the world who still believes in God. Sometimes it can feel so lonely in this world but with true brothers and sisters we can endure it. And ofc with God 🙏🏻
I think that as believers, we need to be very cautious of the way we react toward people like the bearded dude. It is in our flesh to slanderously condemn people such as him. We need to keep men and women who subscribe to this unbiblical way of thing in our prayers because they are representing Christ, which a huge title to bear.
@@bellegendron8446 That question was in itself filled with agenda. You guys believe there is only your way of interpretating the bible when men throughout historia have had thousand different ways of reading scripture. Just look at the amount of protestant movements that grows like a virus everywhere you look. You guys arent even reading scripture the way it was read by the first christians still you judge liberal minded individuals on your high horses of lies and dishonesty
@@Jonqen Is there not a correct way to interpret scripture? What is scripture? According to Merriam-Webster: a(1)The books of the Bible (2) A passage from the Bible b : a body of writings considered sacred or authoritative What makes the Bible sacred or authoritative? Let's use scripture to interpret scripture: 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given my inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" 2Peter 1:20-21 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." 1Corinthians 15:1-4 Moreover brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand: By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I have preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures." Jesus himself always appealed to the authority of scripture: Matthew 4:4 "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Matthew 4:7 It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." Matthew 22:29 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God." John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken..." The authority of the scriptures comes from God himself. It is useful for correction, for instruction in righteousness, it cannot be broken nor is it open to private interpretation. If anyone calls themselves a Christian, they must follow after Jesus. Matthew 16:24 "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow me." John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments." We wouldn't know who Jesus was or what he taught without the scriptures.
A Christian vs a humanist. How can Colby hold to anything being good or bad, by what standard does he hold to? The reason why he makes "moral" statements is because he is borrowing from the biblical worldview while yet denying it.
@jt stead, I certainly don't identify as "humanist," but I can understand why you'd say that. I actually don't deny borrowing/using (hell, even teaching!) Biblical wisdom and Truths found therein. Sorry if my words in the video conveyed otherwise (I certainly don't recall "deny" it, as you say).
@@mrcolbymartin You cannot call yourself a Christian while denying the Bible itself. God knew all things of his creation for all time, and never changed the truths of the Bible. He has mapped out and described his expectations- in the Bible. From what I gather you are in a very dangerous position heading towards greater judgement and condemnation, especially being a shepherd. Please pray for discernment. I heard your wife is a co-pastor. This is unbiblical. If you break one of the laws of God you break them all, and when you deny one part of his word (the word that became flesh - Jesus Christ, the same always) that is explicit and clear - you deny God himself. 1 Timothy 2:12 “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence” I have so much love for you and I want you to know that God is warning you time and time again, please heed to his warnings; they will only come for so long.
@Wan Isaiah 64:6 “But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.” Christ told us that we are all sinners and are guilty before a Holy God and will be judged accordingly, and that our “good” deeds do not pay for the bad deeds we have done. Romans 3:10-13 ESV “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive. The venom of asps is under their lips.” Jesus Christ has paid the price for the names written in the Lamb’s book of life (those who will be saved) with his work on the cross and by him fulfilling all righteousness/going under the law to free us from the law (as in fulfilling the law - never sinning). This does not mean however the law is abolished, it brings us to the knowledge of sin and rather than abolished it is established by faith (from Romans). We are saved by grace through faith in Christ/God. Repent and turn from your sin and towards the Lord. Jesus says in John 14:6 “Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” He is the only way - true Biblical (sola scriptura) Christianity is the way he outlines. There is no other way. Any other Jesus that is different than the Jesus written about in the Bible does not have the power (the power to save) that the Bible says he has. Therefore you must believe in the exact Jesus that scriptures tells us about. The Bible is entirely complete, it is all true, and it is all authoritative as it says in 2 Timothy 3:16-17 “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
@Wan No. He was Eternal, Creator, God who took on flesh and died on the cross for sinners and rose again form the dead. He is Lord and he commands sinners to repent of their humanism - their idol of self. Their search of meaning only in the natural world. Humanism by definition rejects any absolutes like a personal, knowable God. Therefore meaning, unity, mortality, knowledge, and human dignity can only be found in autonomous man. Humanism rejects any moral standard that mankind is to conform too. Jesus said "I am the way, truth, and the life" Therefore meaning, unity, mortality, knowledge, and human dignity can only be found and have its source in eternal God. Big difference.
Well a lot of Christians i meet dont really have the interests of many people at heart. Many only care about themselves and don't advocate for lgbtq rights, social justice, religious equality, trans rights,....
“I hear you but I don’t think you’re right” = “My flesh just won’t let me agree with the word of God. I’d rather interpret it my way.” This man is the perfect example of how the human mind is naturally hostile toward God. Humans innately do not want a standard. We are naturally loose and unordered. Romans 8:7 That is all. 💯
I dunno I'd say that the biblical view on gay people has led to some pretty horrible ideas and actions in the world. I think if the bible never condemned non heterosexuality, the world would be better for it. I don't know about you but I think a world where I don't have to argue for my rights is a better one.
@@cigarettesister I agree everyone should have rights. I’m all for LGBT receiving equal healthcare services and being able to work in their workplace without discrimination just to name a few things. However the Bible is very gracious when it speaks of gays we are called to love everyone regardless and honestly some Christians get it wrong. The thing is that God set his people apart from the world so we cannot follow the trend of what we see in the world today we are to stand firm on what the Bible says. I don’t know if you’re Christian but until you understand God and his holiness it won’t make any sense. Society has conditioned us to be “nice” humans that agree with everything but that never benefits any society. If everyone just blindly agreed with Christianity it wouldn’t really be beneficial either. It’s a two way street.
@@lashywu1330 How is society "agreeing with everything"? From my moral framework, I want to maximize human wellbeing. In the case of LGBTQ people, living our lives causes no harm, and anti LGBTQ sentiment most certainly does. It's pretty clear that these sentiments are what leads to people taking away my rights like what the trump administration did with rolling back LGBTQ protections on those seeking health and welfare services.
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As a man who has struggled with homosexuality all my life, at times I wanted to accept that I could go to heaven if I were to pursue that lifestyle. The more I wanted to accept I could be gay the more I was convicted and the angrier I became at God. I eventually strayed from religion all together for YEARS. Now I’m 21, still pretty young, but I gave my life back to God on November 1st. I still struggle with same sex attraction, frankly I think I’m going to struggle with it for a while but that’s not my worries right now. I give God thanks for giving me that free will but I give it back to him because anything not for him I do not want.
Hey!! I saw your comment and I feel so inadequate when writing this, scared I do not have the right words you might need. I am praying the Lord will guide me and use me as an encouragement. I just wanted to say you are loved and seen and not alone in your struggle. My soul rejoices in the fact you gave your life to God and living for Him again! The Lord is with you and you are under no obligation to live according to your flesh. (Romans 8:12) The Lord is your strength and loves you. Lean into Him and through trials you will build endurance. I am praying for you❤️don’t give up
Thank you for sharing xchorro. God is good and worth more than all the world has to offer - even infinitely so. Glad to hear you have given your life to Christ. If you are His child, by faith, He will keep you to the end. He does not lose any of His sheep. Trust in God alone through Jesus Christ our Lord!
Wonderful testimony, brother. When you draw nigh to God, He will draw nigh to you. As you go through sanctification, I can only pray that it will become easier for you, or at least more of an automatic habit to reject the sinful thoughts..
Amen!
God bless you, stay on the right path!
““Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it.”
Matthew 7:13
Facts!
Funny how folks from every Christian denomination uses passages like this to condemn anyone from any other Christian denomination. How do you know your version is the right one?
@@theroguejester6412
Because denomination is seperation. Where do you read about other denominations in the bible? Wasnt Paul upset that people were claiming to be from different men and he said is Christ divided? Christ is not divided, the only division is between those who serve God and serve satan.
Major Wolf Historical records get more shoddy and harder to find and interpret the farther back we go. The question remains, how do we determine who’s interpretation of events and Biblical commands is correct?
Kc Hamilton There are 40,000 different denominations of Christianity. Which one is true and correct and how do you know?
The church certainly hurts those who love their sin more than the truth. The truth hurts.
I don’t think the truth “hurts” in the way the pastor described people being injured by conservative churches. The truth saves. If people are living a lifestyle that is in open rebellion against God, then the truth is the most loving thing we can give them because we want them to repent and not spend eternity in damnation.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
@@mitchellc4 Is Yahoshua Hamashiac wasn’t God, then (1) why did he accept praise on numerous occasions, as well as (2) claim “Before Abraham, I am”.
To the second point, I’ll give you the answer. God told Moses his name was Ehyah ashen Ehyah, the Hebrew for “Iam that I am/I am who I am.”
@Matt Thoen
Who is Jesus’s God?’
The God of our Lord Jesus Christ as Paul says
Rom 15
6 that together you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Cor 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort,
2 Cor 11
31 The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, he who is blessed for ever, knows that I do not lie.
Eph 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
Eph 1
17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him,
Col 1
3 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,
1 Pet 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
@@andriod090
Who is Jesus’s God?
The God of our Lord Jesus Christ as Paul says
31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and of this he has given assurance to all men by raising him from the dead.”
Ill summarize: The Conservative takes the bible and applies it to his world view. The "progressive" takes his world view and applies it to the bible.
I don't understand why the NEW Evangelical views are considered conservative. The word "New" represents a new teaching that is more than just progressive it is digressive. It changes the direction of Christianity. I have read all the early Christians and the New Evangelicals definitely use the Bible to support their world view.
Exactly!!!
@Gefffh Honckull and you believe that something came from nothing.
@Gefffh Honckull I'm not convinced of that.
@Gefffh Honckull that you don't care!
This is a conversation between a Christian and a non-Christian
Completely agree!
Yup
Nah
@@matthewberg3584 yep it is
I completely agree. At one point I think the progressive guy said something about man being a single celled organism, which sounds like a promotion to Evolution? Maybe I heard him wrong, but either way there is nothing progressive about true faith in Christ. “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever”. Hebrews 13:8
Respectfully, "PROGRESSIVE Christianity" IS NOT Christianity...its something that wants to appear spiritual without actually being accountable to the standards and truths in God's Word. Sorry, but the truth of God's Word makes people uncomfortable, and angry and put-off as it should because it makes us aware of our biggest problem - which is sin.
Yes! 🙏🏼
Amen
Perfect comment
Perfectly said. God Bless!
Well said.
I'm confused! Why do people preach but don't even believe half of the things in the word of God??
Hes Committing the sin of Thyatira or Pergamum in Revelation
Welcome to contemporary evangelical christianity.
I know. Change your day job. It doesn’t make sense. But honestly this is all Satan
A lot of Bible “scholars” and “theologians” teach that the Bible is not infallible, and a LOT of pastors take these teachings and believe them to be true. If you watch Michael Hoggard’s video on The Case For A Pure Bible, he talks about why people believe this way and refutes it. It’s a must watch!
Because they are not called by God. They have Bible school certificates but not certificate from above. Heaven doesn't know them.
Instead of bashing this guy in the comments for his misguided views, let’s pray for him that God will reveal to him the truth
Amen!
Is correcting and using scripture bashing? We can love and correct as we are called to. 2 Timothy 3:16.
If he holds any leadership position in the church he must be robustly corrected.
The issue is that he is a false prophet, so he is leading people to eternal damnation. You can't treat a false teacher with grace.
@@natepickering Bashing him isn’t going to solve anything. Bashing him isn’t going to convince anyone he’s leading them to hell. If you actually care, you’d do something a bit more creative
Progressive Christian: “For me.. I think... my opinion... etc...”
Biblical Christian: “God said.”
Amen.
Facts! ✝️❤️🙌🏾
@@oj5015 For clarity 100% of the Bible was written by man. 🤭 All those men were filled with the presence of our Holy God so that ALL of the word of God is God inspired and God breathed. And scripture is extremely clear about it being from Gods eternal standards.
@@oj5015 back then it was different than it is now, genius.
@@oj5015 you clearly haven’t read the New Testament, think before you comment.
When Jesus warned us of false prophets, he wasn’t joking.
No kidding 🤯 you can tell even as they talk the guy in the light shirt uses scripture while the other guy doesn’t.
@@markwindell3898 If you use Scripture in a way that harms others to the point where they hurt or even kill themselves because they don't even feel worthy of love, how can you sit there and call yourself a follower of Christ? "Love does no harm to a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfillment of the law..."
@@markwindell3898 Even Satan knows scripture but he twisted and CAN twist the truth just like Satan twisted the truth at the garden of Eden!!!
Yeah, I kind of feel sorry for the bearded dude. He doesn't know what he believes
@@theroguejester6412 try taking away a needle from a heroin addict. They will certainly be pissed off, and may even end their lives but doesn’t mean what you’ve done was to harm - in fact, it was to do the opposite. You may not be doing harm to someone by leaving them to do what they want but you are certainly allowing them to harm themselves, which isn’t particularly loving.
"For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear."
2 Timothy 4:3-4
Amen
Amen
I think this verse is very true for those who tell people to simply say some magic words and they are saved.
NEW Evangelical teach that all you have to do is say some magic words and you can be saved from God's punishment. They follow there own desires becoming gluttons, storing treasures on earth.
Just curious, do you or someone you know not follow your own desires sometimes! Are you one of those holier than thou! See the problem is that I do get that progressive christianity does not have a solid foundation but are you gonna tell me that the alternative is self rightous talk!
“I don’t think there’s a designed document that lays out an order of things” Umm how about the word of God?
Imagine unironically thinking the bible is actually the "word of god" tho 🤡
@@vercingetorixarverni6343 well it is soo...
@@jacobwood614 are you sure because your God is supposed to be forgiving, fair and anti homophobic yet the bible is the opposite
@@caramelgumdrop393 dw I know it isn’t 😂
I don’t believe in God but I was referring to ppl who do
@@jacobwood614 it is a word of God. God didn’t stop speaking. His most powerful and sharpest one is the one we are living in. He spoke the universe into motion.
No need to watch. Bearded man doesn't believe in bible. Other dude does
Hey Everything Everson! If the goal of the video was to debate the Bible, then I'd agree with you. Skip! However, the goal was simply to model charitable, good-faith conversation between people who believer very differently. If that interests you, then watch! If not, all good!
Hey! I have a beard and I’m with our Theologian here. Lol. Beards are not sinful. Haha
@@mrcolbymartin but this is a biblical issue, and one side clearly doesn't believe in the Bible.
@@mrcolbymartin Hey Colby, thanks for engaging here. I sort of agree with the other guy. I was disappointed because I was genuinely looking to find someone who seem to believe the Scriptures for what they are and still believe that homosexuality was not a sin. I guess if you have two pastors up for a debate, if as Christians we get our beliefs from the word of God, we were not expecting a liberal theologian here. We were expecting someone who held fast to the Scriptures and maybe interpreted them a different way.
Also, yes, Christians have misinterpreted scripture along history… I have done the same. Ha ha. But, I’m interested in how those specific scriptures that speak against homosexuality can be misunderstood. People use scripture and twisted it to promote slavery… Their application was off… Because they did not understand the culture or the context. I think that is very different to the homosexuality verses. Can you please enlighten me and let me know how you perceive the verses on homosexuality?
We can't know God comprehensively, as he is an infinite, timeless being beyond our senses.
However, we can know what God has revealed about himself in scripture and in his creation.
The PC understands the first statement and tends to forget the second.
The CC understands the second statement and tends to forget the first.
"The bible isn't sufficient" this man should not be sheparding a church
John 10:1 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
We can question however we want. We’re humans we think. We wonder
Have you ever studied the history of the Bible? Written by dozens of different authors the council of nicea assembled it's structure heavily edited by the ethiopian, orthodox and catholic churches. Original manuscripts are missing and so much has been lost or changed during the translation process.
@@ericreingardt2504 there’s absolutely no proof the Bible has been changed like you say, that’s simply an opinion. The King James Version is almost word for word from the Greek and mind you much of the New Testament was written in Greek originally. God is all powerful and all knowing, he’s kept his Word pure for us to digest. Many of the versions after the King James are tampered with, do to the fact they had to be edited a certain percentage before they could obtain a copyright and make money off them.
@@malachipratton5145 buddy, the proof is on my side in this debate. You're the one with the opinion. Look up saint jerome who picked and chose the arrangement of the bible. Look up the council of nicea. Look up the many errors and edits greek monks and scribes made. Look up the many edits the eastern orthodox church made and look up the edits the roman catholic church made. All of this happened before the Bible was even translated into old English (wycliffe) and then modern english and even then scribes and monks took some liberties and translation. You need to look at the Bible critically or you'll always be confused and frustrated.
This was so hard to watch.. As a born again Christian of 5 months, I came out of 16 years of gay living. I don't need a pastor to tell me it's okay when it's not. SMH. God Bless You Both. Thank you Owen
Pistis, the word Paul uses when the translations render it "faith", means in Greek also faithfulness. But in the political context, it means allegiance. And Christ=christos=annointed one means the Messianic King and lord=kyrios was the shorthand term for the Roman emperor. What do I want to say? The phrase "faith in Christ" means not a set of convictions, but "allegiance", and allegiance without obedience is not possible. Therefore I want to encourage you in your fighting the good fight and I highly recommend you Matthew Bates "Salvation by Allegiance alone. Reconsidering Faith, Works and the Gospel of Jesus the King" or "Gospel Allegiance. What faith in Jesus misses for salvation in Christ." Excellent books. And if you are interested in the dephts of the Gospel how it was meant by Paul, dive deeper into the "new Perspective on Paul", starting on wikipedia. Saving faith is obedient in struggling-faith.
@@martinospitaletta8198 what in Earth did you just said?
Theologian garbage is wrecking the world today.
@@martinospitaletta8198 beautifully put!! Wow!!
Hang in there. It’s a long but rewarding journey. Remember Satan is trying to lead you a stray.
AHH so my marriage with the person i love with everything within me is "not okay"
I struggle with my sexuality, I am a Christian and I completely agree with the “conservative” Christian on every word.
Welcome to life.
We all struggle with one thing or another. For some it's sexuality and for others it's something else.
Stay the course and continue to call on the One who gave Himself for you. Even when we slip, give in, fall short, or whatever, call out to Him.
When we are weak, He is strong. When our faith falters, His remains. He is our advocate and sustainer. If we didn't struggle and face defeat from time to time, we would not need One who stands on our behalf.
The fact that your struggle with this is a good sign that the author of our salvation is at work.
Stay strong in the Lord friend.
Blessings to you and know that I am praying for you right now 🙏
The first step is admitting! Way to be proactive and be aware of that
You need to accept yourself, be gay/bi it's you
@@peterwilkins507 i don’t have to, my desires don’t define my identity Peter. My identity is given by Jesus.
Self hatred is a struggle
If your pastor starts a sentence with “For me...” you better go to someone else.
Amen. I totally agree.
What is your Biblical basis for this statement?
@Patrick Obert Nkala Morality is decided by God but that doesn't mean there isn't a place for talking about your experiences, your thoughts or what has worked for you.
Thanks for sharing! I tried to address this here: ruclips.net/video/wo8BRa8od7o/видео.html
Im soo glad im Catholic....you can reference ANYTHING, that's backed up upon back up! GEEZ these guys are just dancing around on what "they think"...terrible terrible theology. Just my opinion. Then the guy on the right says >>>
" "how can we really trust the bible, at the end of the day?" really?
You know its sad because I didn't know I was being progressive. I was being led by my emotions and now I'm glad the Lord has put this intense desire to be in the word and has called me out of the lie I was in. It has taken time but he is patient, I'm now seeing this and all I can say if pray for this man who believes a lie and may God have mercy
Such an awesome testimony!!
Amen!
How did you determine your Biblical interpretation is correct?
The fact that the Lord hates sin and that will never change. When you are at a place where all they care about is the #'s and start saying things like "Jesus paid for all your sins, so if you sin thats ok, no biggie" thats a huge issue. I was, like the scriptures say, going after my own lusts and views, seeking after teachings that my itching ears wanted to hear turning away from the truth. If you are not willing to let go of sin in your life, then you are not believing in the Jesus who died to be the salvation for humanity. The bible does not contradict itself, Jesus was in the beginning with God and Holy Spirit and they made male and female.
@@calb4650 First of all, there are plenty of Biblical contradictions. The first two chapters of Genesis tell contradictory creation stories. Also, I'm curious why God grants sexually fulfilling relationships to straight people but not to gay people. Why is a relationship only a sin when a gay person desires it?
"I don't feel any of that is true"
The truth doesn't care how you feel about it. It doesn't make it less true.
The heart is deceitful.
Thanks for sharing! I tried to address this here: ruclips.net/video/wo8BRa8od7o/видео.html
@@mrcolbymartin "I think" God is going to correct you. I know the Bible says so as well.
Murdering babies lying in their cribs isn't moral. Sneaking in to someone's home and killing them, and proclaiming all their lands and possessions to be a gift from God is wrong no matter what book says it is good. That is absolutely true.
Conservatism advocates the destruction of the earth, through greed and violence. One good passage from the bible states that God will destroy all those who destroy the earth. But conservatives cling to the idea that they should poison everything and kill all living things for their pleasure.
The arrogance and violence of conservatism will absolutely be its demise.
@@dr.graves5541 lmao how many grams of whatever drug you're on did you take before you internetted today?
“I don’t think there is a divine document out there that lays out the order of things.” The Bible????
The Suma Theologica, Casti Cannoubi, Humanae Vitae, Mere Christianity
Exactly my thoughts when he said that lol
That's EXACTLY what I said. Lbvs
i'd put that right in its obvious context and ask why you asperse a guy when his meaning is clear
I wonder what he preaches if he doesn’t believe in the Bible.
More like Christian vs Agnostic. Bearded guy kept saying "if there is some transcent being" and "some guy in the sky".
Also he kept talking about Christians have gotten it wrong in the past so there's no way we can be sure we're right now. And we can't really tell what's good and bad. But then he goes on to say we are to judge people by their good fruit. If there is no objective standard, how would we know what's good fruit?
FYI- some LGBTQ+ advocacy efforts are directed towards changing the culture and beliefs on homosexuality of the christian church from within. If you follow lgbtq politics and their some of their organizations, you’ll understand these are Organized and deliberate efforts
YES!! I said the same thing... can’t know what good fruit is, if you don’t have a gauge for good and bad... 🤦🏻♀️
That’s what I was thinking exactly.
@Ptolemy 1 Nothing is forced on you. You have free will to obey the Word of God or to disregard it. Each choice has it's own ending. God helped me in my sexuality and His Word is very convicting, but His love is extremely uplifting and powerful. God is merciful. That is why He sent down His Son Jesus to die for our sins (and He was buried and rose again on the 3rd day) so that we can be born again and enter into the Kingdom of God. The depression and suicide rates are very high within the LGBTQ community and it saddens me. Sadly, asking people to validate false claims on our perspective or emotions won't fix anything because even then, many have taken their own lives after said validation. Only truth in love can help heal someone. Living in a lie is damaging and that has killed more people than it has ever saved.
Seek the Word of God and reach out to God in genuine prayer. He will answer you. And read Romans 1 as it may help you understand a bit more. I recommend KJV.
When it comes to salvation, please give these verses a read! Romans 10:9-10; 1 John 1:8-9; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Acts 2:38. 🙏🏼🌻💛
Exactly my thoughts.
“I don’t believe there is a divine document out there that lays out a beings preferred order of things.”
The...Bible...?
The bible is flawed, filled with contradictions and does not have a PERFECT translation. Now what?
@@dathip the Word of God is infallible. It is inspired by a perfect Creator who does not make mistakes. For any Christian to say otherwise is heresy.
@@Cal1177 That does not answer ANY of my questions. The bible has numerous translations that CONTRADICT each other, christians say that their are translations that are more RELIABLE than others yet it contradicts its claim to be perfect, and does not have original authentic COMPLETE manuscripts that go back the earliest of the century.
@@dathip I think that you are assuming that all translations are equally reliable and accurate. This is not the case. For example, the Message translation does a great job of evoking emotion but is further from the original Greek than the NIV.
@@jaredclark173 No. My position is that they are not PERFECT as GOD claims his word would be preserved.
One guy opens with his testimony remembering how he was convicted of his sin and the other guy doesn't. I'm always leery of Christians who don't mention their sinfulness in their testimony. If there's no sin, then Christ died needlessly
It was in heaven first, was it not, technically?
Amen
@@tomasmccauley569
Tomas, nobody says everything about us is sin, sin, sin. It is a matter of your choice. God has no hand here. If you choose; yes choose to walk away from sin and embrace holy living, then go ahead.
We are told that the Bible contains God's word and commandments; not our word. Sodomy is clearly described in the Bible as an abomination.
If we are the clay and He, the Potter, we have to obey Him.
Sadly today, we place emphasis on pleasing the clay instead of the Potter. That is Humanism.
So if obeying the texts of the Bible makes one sad, the solution is to bring the flesh under subjection by refusing to please it.
1 Corinthians 9:24-27
"Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. [25] And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. [26] I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: [27] But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."
@@tomasmccauley569 it just makes you conscience beyond a meaningless stumble on a floating rock through space.
That is so right guys !!
I m not here to comment on theology but just embracing the respect and honour that these two have for each other. I wish we could have more people like this in this world where we could share our opinions, believe, faith and conviction in this manner. Thanks for sharing this conversation!
I’m watching this as a struggling Christian trying to figure out how exactly God wants us to live and interpret things. I have lately had a tendency to value some of the more progressive ideas, thinking there should be a more “inclusive” way to lead people to Christ. However, after watching this, I see that this way of thinking is actually pretty dangerous and not at all biblical....
You nailed it. The proper way to lead people to Jesus is through relationships. We never see Jesus walking up to someone telling them they need to accept Him or go to hell. We see Him developing relationships with people and loving on them. We need to be the hands and feet of Jesus. I’m glad you see that progressive Christianity is not Christianity at all. The Bible has everything we need. It’s the Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth! It is not a book of rules! It’s a book of salvation! And It’s an instruction manual to guide us to a better life!
I'm Really glad Lacy, God bless.
My thing is if you’re too comfortable as a converting Christian in a church that doesn’t convict you fully then that church is most likely off the word because a true convert would not want to feel comfortable in their sin
@@onyinyesarah1226 Yes, exactly.
@@onyinyesarah1226 truth
“I can sign off on God’s design for sexuality, if I’m allowed to have my own ways of thinking about it”... That right there is the core “issue”.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
@@mitchellc4 there will come a day and not too far from now when you will wander over RUclips searching for these comments you make. Desiring strongly to delete them all.
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6, ESV).
Philippians 2:5-8
John 1
Colossians 1:13-20
@@mitchellc4 youve missed the full counsel of God (as we learn from Acts and 2 Timothy) on who Jesus is as Messiah; you are partly right but gravely wrong. I agree with Quinner 85's verses as help as to why Jesus is both God and man (God can die and not die) while he was on earth (on His own humble accord as we learn from Hebrews).
17:45 Didn’t take long before this “progressive christian” denied he was even created by God’s design. It is straight heresy to deny a basic aspect of who God is: the eternal creator of all. Truly mind-boggling some people convince themselves this is still Christianity.
I hope this honest and sincere discussion leads the pastor to study Christian apologetics.
@@Eyemredeemed Hey Amy! Good news, I studied apologetics for years. Rest assured, I know it all pretty well (meaning, the traditional arguments for the conservative position on homosexuality). But I do agree with you, I hope that my new friend Owen will take this honest and sincere discussion and perhaps one day be spurred on to question his conclusions, too.
@@mrcolbymartin the biblical position*
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
@@mrcolbymartin I’m sorry man but you need to be rebuked out of love.
Over the years I've tried coming to Christ multiple times only to be pushed away by hateful Christians. The comments are making me feel this way once again, but this time I'm not going to walk away. I will have my own relationship with God and will not allow the hate to drive me away once again. I feel that I need to stay close to God but distance myself from a majority of his followers.
Exactly, its not about the other followers of Christ, its about you and Him. Thats how it is in the beginning for everyone, God bless you 😊
I’m sorry Christ representatives are not an actual representation of who He is and the principles He Wants His followers to live by.
I'm curious, what was hateful about your previous experience? Was it the way they confronted sin?
There seems to be a lot of judgement here good old Christian love there's no hate like conservative Christian love
@JeremyH-qq8wf nah, hate is throwing homosexuals off of buildings as is currently being done in areas of the middle east.
Christian love is telling a fellow believer when they are in danger. We are told explicitly to judge our brothers and sisters in Christ, and to not participate in what the Bible calls sin. Somehow, not affirming sin is hateful?
I just watched 47 minutes of a Christian trying his best to discredit the bible. Wow
Ya, someone who wants to love his or her fellow man, but has to dance around all the ugly ignorant hatred that is in the bible, and still pretend to believe in its primitive origin.
Wolves among sheep.
@@donefinished All shepherds lead their flocks to slaughter.
@@dr.graves5541 I didn’t see any evidence of hatred here.
@@jestanuthername I said "in the bible". Where is anything that could be mistaken for love and compassion be found where a primitive book tells its readers to murder another human being for how they were born? No real supernatural entity would be that ignorant and hateful.
“For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.”
2 Timothy 4:3 NIV
Guy with the beard fulfills this verse.
isiah 30 8-19 was written as a prophesy of Judah, if your interested go read it and you will also see the same idea as 2 Tim 4:3. the intricacies of Gods word is so vast
You are right and that’s the sad truth
@@geargem2047 Which bits are sound, again, and what was meant to happen to Jews, post Matthew 27:25.
Also, how does death deter Eve if she does not understand death; or obedience, with no idea of good, and evil.
And has not this errancy, or similar ones, dated back much further, than a few latter days?
How have you determined that your doctrine is sound? Is it because it is the most popular? If so, consider doctrine of the past that was ubiquitous and then changed by people like Martin Luther. Christians have stopped burning witches, leading crusades, and justifying racism. Why should this be the hill you die on?
Totally!!!!
God: My Word is enough.
This guy: The Bible is not sufficient.
I thought this was supposed to be between two Christians...
Just out of curiosity, I disagree with the progressive Christian, but where is Sola scriptura commanded by God?
How did you determine your interpretation of the Bible is correct?
@Brian Farley Thanks, I appreciate the history lesson but I'm constantly turned off by the absoluteness of any person or organization claiming, quite dogmatically, the monopoly on truth and moral reasoning. Is the progressive pastor a Catholic? Did you know that the vast majority of Catholics and even the Pope himself say they are fine with same-sex relationships and that we all have much more pressing things to worry about?
@Brian Farley "We know the Church has gotten many things wrong before, so we at least have to be open tot he possibility that they can be wrong again." That's a direct quote from the video. What are your thoughts on the errors and mistakes in church history?
@Brian Farley Gonna try to unpack all of your assumptions there. Please bear with me.
"you either believe in objective truth or relativism" > False Dichotomy Fallacy, aka Black-and-White Thinking. There are many other beliefs about morality besides these two options. For example, I believe that chess is a completely arbitrary (relative) game, but that within the game itself exists a realm of perfect objectivity. That is, there are moves that will objectively lead you to the goal of winning the game. Secular humanism operates under a similar framework: a realm of empiricism and objectivity within the albeit subjective idea that human well-being is worth valuing.
In this sense, I do not subscribe to relativism, nor do I see how the existence of mathematical or scientific measurements demonstrate anything about a god or our relationship with one.
Regardless of the opinions and reactions we would all experience in this conversation, the absolute breakthrough is the conversation happening. These are real questions that deserve exploration and answer. It's not dangerous to ask. It's a wonderful first step to the truth and freedom.
Hi Deb
IT is not a real question....The bible is clear. Believe it or dont.
Notice how this pastor is always saying, “for me & what I think,” & the theologian always refers to the Bible.
That’s our true & ONLY authority in life. God’s blueprint, not an opinion from some man.
The pastor believes in a god he made up, not the God that the Bible speaks of.
It’s so sad... this pastor isn’t practicing truth let alone preaching it.
Luke 6:39, “And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into a ditch?”
I'm glad you picked up on that, Diana! Thanks for naming it.
I spent years using the Bible as the ultimate conversation ender. "The Bible says it, I believe it, end of story." What I failed to understand, however, is that it never is that simple. Whenever we claim to speak for the Bible, we will always have a layer (or layers) of interpretation.
So I've made a commitment to be more honest about that in my speech.
Rather than say "the Bible says," (which ACTUALLY means, "here's what I've been taught the Bible says"), instead I now humbly acknowledge that these are MY thoughts/opinions/beliefs/perspectives/etc.
I can understand how that sounds unsettling to people who are accustomed to hearing preachers claim some sort of objective truth.
But I am really, REALLY, far away from being wise enough to do that. So in the meantime, I'll stick with humbly offering my thoughts.
Thanks for listening.
@@mrcolbymartin Colby, honest question: Isn't following the way of Jesus using God's word as an absolute authority? Isn't that exactly what He did? How, in your mind, do you separate that from the Jesus you believe you are following?
@@rdrift1879 thanks for the question. You ask, "isn't following the way of Jesus using God's word as absolute authority? Isn't that exactly what he (Jesus) did?"
Actually, no. Jesus didn't use the bible (which is what I'm assuming you mean by "God's word," correct?) as his absolute authority. From what we can ascertain through the Gospel accounts, he likely used a combination of Jewish tradition, and inner-wisdom, as well as their sacred texts, all as sources of what you might call "authority" for his life.
So for me, to follow the way of Jesus, is to tread a similar path.
@@mrcolbymartin Well, I don't think any objective reader of the Gospels would agree with you that Jesus did not regard God's word as His absolute authority. I don't know how anyone can miss that. I would encourage you to read through the Gospels again with that idea specifically in mind, and see if you are, indeed, treading His path.
@@mrcolbymartin great job and thank you for explaining this. My grandmother has taken Bible study fellowship classes for 20 years or more and she 100% agrees with every bit of what you said and that’s always been her advice to us that when you’re talking about what you understand the Bible to mean vs what the Bible says you always need to make a difference of it. In actuality that’s all any of us are doing is making our best attempt at understanding and interpreting a two thousand year old book that we weren’t around for when it was written. I think it’s also important to note that many people wanna take the Bible word for word as authority and then cherry pick around the verses that don’t fit their narrative. Also really appreciate your book I read it and it helped me tremendously with my own faith and identity and I gave one to my grandparents and parents and it’s changed everyone’s opinions on the topic of homosexuality. And thanks to that, my fiancé and I are able to be comfortable, celebrated, accepted and supported by my family. That has led to them telling even more family and friends about your book and them changing their minds as well. My cousin is a youth pastor also who wants a copy of it to be able to help her youth and understand them better. One by one you affected a whole family of people! Thank you for your words and being bold!
You have to give respect to Pastor Owen for his gentleness and meekness even when he knows this guy is clearly contradicting himself. Let’s pray that God use this dialogue to open his eyes to the truth 🙏🏾
100% !
Amen
Legit, I was so impressed with how he kept his cool and train of thought on track the entire conversation. It kept me in suspense like, "Ooooh how he gonna handle that one? :O "
Amen
Agreed, Colby contradicted himself on almost every point but then hypocritically would just appeal to himself as the authority.
So weird to insist on calling yourself a Christian and be a ‘pastor’ but clearly not be Christian 🥴
That is exactly what I just said. How can he truly call himself a Christian when he simply doesn’t believe in God being the creator?!
Yeah! It really struck me how nearly everything he described as a personal belief he holds could be ascribed to new age belief, yet he calls himself a Christian. 🤯 It really is mind blowing, the amount of redefining of terms in this post modern age. It's as if we're living in an upside down world. Jesus, come!
just one contradiction after another.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
You are not the Gate Keeper
The whole time I’m wondering why the bearded man calls himself a pastor when he seems more confused about the gospel than a lay person.
Progressive guy just invented a god to fit his view point.
Notice how he's mumbling and bumbling and the other guy is clear and exact in his answers.. I'm sorry but Progressive Christian people I've just don't feel are correct doctrinal.. they're trying to fit God into their own thinking.. I watched girl God is grey and Ruslan have a conversation and she's not even clear about what she believes she said she doesn't go on her feelings but when she was speaking of homosexuality she said "well I think" ....not well the Bible says
@@monicanewell1567 amen, I completely agree. Progressive Christianity is false.
@@monicanewell1567 It all depends how you view the Bible. One way is to see it as the “Word of God” and “inspired by God” which suggests that the Bible is a divine product as no other book is.
Another way of seeing the Bible is as the human product of two ancient communities. The OT is the product of ancient Israel, and the NT is the product of the early Christian movement. As the product of these two communities, the Bible tells us about how they saw things- how they thought about God and told their stories.
This is the result of modern biblical scholarship over the last three centuries. Though it was known mostly in scholarly circles until recently, this approach is now being embraced by many mainline Christians. The Bible is the “Word of God” in this sense: in its function, not in its origin.
He is literally misleading a whole church.
The progressive was wright about the interpretation argument. The non progressive never really answered the question just talked around it. He clams that you always as to take the Bible litteraly yet a huge part of the Bible are parables something that is not literal. So how can something be completely objective when a huge chunk of it is open to interpretation. Also it blows my mind how many people are saying that this man is not a Christian. It’s not your place to decide wether he is or not. That between him and god not you. And it’s nobody’s place to say who is and isn’t a Christan. That’s god’s job
I'm a Baptist and I've never been afraid of asking questions. I'm sad that he felt he couldn't ask questions. I was fortunate to be able to grow in my faith by asking questions.
I’m a Baptist too, and same here. There are a lot of crazy stereotypes about Baptists but I think that’s because fundamentalist evangelicals tend to take the Bible very seriously.
Growing up my family, pastor, and teachers (I went to private Christian School) never allowed questions. Eventually, I was old enough to research my questions myself and fully understand what I read.
I'm an atheist now. It worked really well for them I think 🙄
@@inaraoftyria3878 That’s a shame questions are looked down on. Whenever a child (or anyone, really) asks a spiritual question I am very happy! I think there are a lot of Christians working to change that flaw in our culture.
@@inaraoftyria3878 that's a sad story, there are questions that need answers, without them it's just blind faith, which more dangerous than unbelief. I pray that you find people who can answer your questions and build your faith on a strong foundation. God bless you.
I graduated from Pensacola Christian College and almost was expelled by writing a term paper question the views of the schools music policies.
I remember questioning the concept of Faith as being a leap into the unknown. I did not see that as a good way to go about believing in something.
Pray for the guy with the beard. His confused and lost. And leading others through his confusion
Amen
💯 percent
That’s what God call false prophet. He is confusing the people. That’s what the devil wants.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
And how exactly did you determine your Biblical interpretation is correct?
This could have been 6 hours long. Each of their foundations was so radically different than the other’s that they never had time to develop a common footing (if there was one).
On a side note, How can someone call themselves a Christian and not believe in a Personal, Self-existent God? Call yourself what you are: a spiritually minded agnostic.
It's new age pseudo-spiritualism masquerading as Christianity to get bodies in the door.
He does claim to believe in a person self existent God. Funny.. he just recently did a video with Sean Mcdowell.. and he admits his personal relationship with God is something he has lost since going down the progressive path.
“There is no divine document out there that lays out a ‘being’s’ preferred order of things” ummmm..... THE BIBLE??
Shhh...
That's exactly what I thought when he said that
So Yuo guys doesn't use logic in your life? Where the intelligence come from? this creation is beautiful created in order. Evolution itself is not intelligent 🤓 of course there is a Powerful creator and designer of all. 📖✝️💙👌
Exactly
@@jordanblack3054 tell Andi wisdom, USE THE LAW LOGIG 🤔😆👍
“The Christian religion has done a lot of great for the world and a lot of atrocities” no sir, the good was done by Christ through himself and fallen people saved by grace who allowed Him to use them for His glory, and the atrocities were done by fallen people who distorted the gospel and used it for their own glory
Another person who has obviously never read the bible...
But why would He WANT IT to become ABLE to be distorted, even on the major level of Popes, theologians, bishops, editors and inquisitors, @Hanna Grace Ciacelli ? For who's free will, is that to serve? What of all those they ended up spreading the word to, or seeking to convert? Were they to receive bad evangelism, relative to other, luckier ones?
And Matthew 5:18, I'm sorry, is still technically Matthew 5:18.
@@chrissonofpear1384 "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, nor the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law, UNTIL EVERYTHING IS ACCOMPLISHED. **Anyone** who breaks one of the least of these commandments **and teaches others to do the same** will be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven."- Jesus of Nazareth (Matt 5:18-19)
We have a problem that arises with the widespread interpretation of this verse which I'm assuming that you hold, Chris.
"When they finished, James spoke up: "Brothers, listen to me. Simon (Peter) has described to us how God at first showed his concern by taking from the Gentiles a people for himself. The words of the Prophets are in agreement with this...
...it is my judgement, therefore, that we should not make it too difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality (pornea), from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."
It goes on to say in verse 28: "It seemed **good to the Holy Spirit** and to us...[James, Peter, Paul, Barnabas, Judas and Silas] to not burden you with anything beyond the following requirements..."
These are excerpts from the Book of Acts 15:13-29 that you're undoubtedly famliar with. If we take what Christ Jesus said in Matthew 5:18-19 then it is only logical to conclude that James, Peter, Paul, etc, are all the least in the Kingdom of Heaven, since they are teaching others to break the Law of Moses, dispensing not only with the Jot and tittles, but most of the 613 Mitzvot of the Torah.
But I hold the theology that the Apostles of Christ cannot contradict him, and therefore this must make us reassess our assumptions about his very clear command regarding the Law. I can only conclude that the "get out clause" has been enacted: "UNTIL EVERYTHING IS ACCOMPLISHED." This can only mean the death of Christ and his resurrection, where he said "It is finished." Otherwise we have no alternative but to believe that the key Apostles of Christ disobeyed him after his ascension and after they had received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.
Or they have known the meaning of Jesus words regarding this verse intimately, and are applying it correctly.
@@dr.graves5541 Are we clear on the very sharp line that delineates between the Old Covenant between Ancient Israel and Judah in the Law of Moses written in the Old Testament, and the New Covenant between God and his elect from among the Jews and the Gentiles written in the New Testament, and that the New Covenant mediated by Christ requires the participants in that Covenant to imitate the example of Christ and his Apostles exclusively?
Jesus led no earthly revolution neither did he commit any fatal acts of violence, and there is no record of any of the Apostles committing violence in the First Century Church, but Jesus commanded them in Matthew 10:23, "When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another..." We have commands to emulate Christ and the Apostles in the New Testament, which is the Christian Manifesto, but only to remember the Old Covenant from which we are saved by the grace of God through the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus.
Sadly, a long list of Popes, Cardinals, Bishops, Inquisitors, Crusaders and Pastors throughout history failed to undestand what is very plainly written in the New Testament, especially in the Book of Hebrews on this, and in the Letters of Paul.
@@TwizzElishus Jesus wasn't a bad guy. He did kill a tree supposedly for not having ripe fruit once. But like father like son throwing tantrums like a child, which if you read the Bible, God throws tantrum after tantrum.
Something a real God would never do.
To the progressive “pastor”, sorry, but it’s not about the “for me” or “I feel”. This is about how God has created And how he designed them to operate. You can’t take Christianity and shape it to fit your agenda.
Yea you can but it’s NOT CHRISTIANITY!!
Thanks for sharing! I tried to address this here: ruclips.net/video/wo8BRa8od7o/видео.html
@@mrcolbymartin I’m not religious because of people not like you. Your spot on. Most Evangelicals love Trump but hate homosexuals That’s just insane I do like you take.
'Designed them to operate'
@@jconner3891
"love Trump but hate homosexuals".
Because God "says" to hate homosexuals, but speaking the truth is something that The Bible prides itself on.
This is more new age atheism than "progressive" Christianity
Believing in God isn't atheism
Right
I really appreciate that in this day and age two people can sit down and have a conversation on a topic they disagree on in a way that still is respectful and calm. Thank you, Anchored North!
Wasn't that so refreshing? I agree. Not easy, but important. Thanks tiffany.
I agree in a way Tiffany, but it's sad to me that no member of the actual LGBTQI+ community was invited to the discussion. It's like having a discussion about women's rights and roles in the church without having a woman present to give personal input.
@@mrcolbymartin Jesus died to take the place of those who believe in Him and turn from the world to follow Him. He took the cross to take the repercussion for what God warned Adam would happen if he ate what was forbidden. For disbelieving God.
Jesus died so we wouldn't have to. He physically rose from death to give us hope that we too would physically rise from death. Bodily.
Your paradigm of how you view the world through believing the theory of universal common descent has clouded your ability to understand why Jesus died. If you don't believe that God made Adam and Eve in the beginning, and we are fallen because we inherit death from our ancestor Adam... you will never understand being born again and inheriting life through Jesus. May God open your eyes like the man in John chapter 9 who you reference in your writings. Jesus is more beautiful than you know.
@@timq78 why would that have any impact on the discussion and subject, every day we all speak and have opinions outside of our field or lane, does that make us all invalid or disqualified?
@@patrickambler749 awesome Patrick, how true, this movement is deceitful, they are not “progressive Christians” by definition in fact they are the opposite, they are “ universal idolatrous pagans”
He refers to God a “this being” and to the the Bible as “some sources of divine document” that means that he is not even a true believer of God. End of the story.
💯
Exactly
Amen Yes so sad 😞
I picked up on that as well. He's very detached. He doesn't have a relationship with Christ.
They picked the wrong person to represent Christianity in the video
This dude isn’t a Christian. He rejects foundational biblical beliefs
He doesn't even want to verify or say that God's word is truth that's troubling he's leading so many people astray
The bearded one is at best a “New Age Spiritualist” He would want to throw doubt on the Word in order to coddle hedonistic idolatry. Imagine leaning on your own understanding..without a leg to stand on. Smh
That’s why is scripture (especially the writings of the apostles) we see a clear picture of them saying the proper doctrine should be handed down. When you read the Bible for yourself without care if the doctrine that was taught by Jesus to the apostles you get false doctrine. The bearded guy would benefit greatly from a study of the history of the church and the doctrines of the apostolic fathers. He would see that his views are outside of the true Christian doctrine. You can’t read the Bible with your own mind. Doctrine is important
@@OfficiallyXgotcha34
Actually you can read the bible and get understanding of what it actually teaches for the most part without doctrine (for example you can get the doctrine of the trinity without knowing it if you read the bible), the problem is that people read in what they want to read into the scripture.
The actual Christian should go from debating to sharing the gospel... for real, that would be the best thing to do in this situation
The bearded guy sounds like me, when I was an agnostic 14 year old, high on pot, who thought I knew the answers of the universe 😳 😅
Yep sounds about right
So back then you new the answers but now you don't the answers?
Pretty much the same for me I got out of it a couple years back I’m still a teen but before I would make my own image of god to make myself feel comfortable in sin because the truth does hurt when you become comfortable in sin
@@Wrasssle Your not into worshiping idols so Roman's chapter 1 does not apply
You are not supposed to worship idols as it is a sin
Love how he keeps referring to God as “this being” or “this thing” as if God hasn’t already identified himself.
To be honest, they BOTH referred to “ a being” several times. And they BOTH were talking about how they interpret the Gospel. I thought they were gonna talk scriptures
If you believe God is a bearded man in the sky you are beyond stupid
The part Colby is missing is that you can only know the scriptures if you have the Holy Spirit living in you and I don’t think he does.
@@vondazollinger33 How convinient
@Marly B So Jesus didnt have a beard? How do you know?
“christians need to be careful of misusing the Bible”
guy on the right: “haha trueeee”
guy on the right 15 minutes prior: “i don’t think there’s a holy writing that tells us how we’re supposed to live” (not his exact words but you get my message :)
Lol it's sad.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
How did you determine your Biblical interpretation is correct?
"'Christian' who doesn't believe Christian things" vs. Actual Christian
Basically lol
But why?
@@pop3stealth97 you tell me
Instead of bashing the bearded guy we should be praying for him. He’s leading a lot of people astray. We should be bashing what he’s teaching
Or you could bash nothing
@@Maksie0 as Christians we need to be accountable for keeping each other in check. That can also mean calling out false prophets. Ur right tho. Bashing might not be the word I’m looking for
This was like a doctor in theology explaining God to an atheist.
And that "atheist" claims to be a Christian Pastor.
Key word is “claims” to be. A lot of people claim to be things but authentic Christianity isn’t something that is up to how you feel. Authentic Christianity has already been decided and declared by Christ’s life, word, and resurrection! Let the church say Amen.
@@ryansherrett3223 Not a atheist
@Link I didn't even know Biden believed in God ngl
@Link Trump used to be in a pro LGBT church where they don't think it's a sin just for ur information lmao
"I don't have this amazing testimony" Seems pretty great to me to be faithful and knowing the Scripture with such wisdom.
Amen! Subscribe!
Most impressive part is Owen’s ability to listen to all that malarkey without flipping a table over 🤣
Indeed
Restraint level 100%
That's exactly right
The fact that his facial expression stays the same the whole time is amazing. My jaw would have been on the floor with most of his responses and my eyes rolling 80% of the time. This guy CLEARLY does not know Jesus, doesnt read the bible nor teach out of it.
They did not provide him a table to flip for a reason.
If more people could have civilized conversations like this without wanting to kill each other, the world would be a better place.
Should be titled “Guy who knows what he’s talking about vs Guy who makes things up as he goes” or “Guy who forms himself around God vs Guy who forms God around himself”
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
Exactly! And that's the issue nowadays with the so called "progressive ""Christians"". They're not Christians if they adapt parts of the word of God to their own thinking. Sad but not surprising, God foretold these things would happen. Even so it saddens me a lot.
😂 Right
@@mitchellc4 Then fill in the f***ing gaps, including in the fate of Achan's kids, and when any angel could alter or impair other angels spiritually, before birth, using their free will - as Eve did to humans. To not yet, born, humans.
😂😂😂
The progressive guy has more questions and ideas than answers and truths.
💯!!
Hopefully all those ideas and questions lead him and his wife to the real answers and Truth.
"Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things."
Proverbs 28:5
Yeah, I guess there really is not any place in the Bible that says homosexuality isn't a sin so it can't be DISproven.
@@n.c.1201 1 corinthians 6:9
It's so sad that there are "pastors" out there teaching watered down, wishy washy gospel.
What do you mean by that?
It's not wishy-washy gospel. It is not Gospel at all. This is heresy, plain and simple. Truth is not determined by my personal feelings about it, or about the people who struggle with it.
Totally agree. When we devalue the word we devalue our culture and the blessing which is provided to us.
Watch american gospel!! Amazing!!!!
@@brittbritt1306 are you being sarcastic?
He says he totally gets a certain topic and then the next minute completely rejects it.
I'd be avoiding his church. Just tickling ears, but not a Bible believer.
I would say that the progressive does not acknowledge God at all. At one point even parrots the serpent in that God was holding back knowledge from man. The conversation was useful in that it was revealing what a progressive believes
not even a believer in God! And he calls himself a Christian. 😣
Trust in the Lord with all your heart. In all your ways acknowledge him and he will make your path straight.
Amen sister!
Don't forget the part of the verse that says, and Lean not on your own understanding, BUT in all your ways acknowledge him.
The man in the black shirt was relying heavily on his own understanding
Believe what your are told, question nothing, and live a life dictated by some 2000 year old book. Don't you realise you've all been indoctrinated??? You can break free from nonsensical religious and still be spiritual. The bible was not written by god, we cannot understand what god is. For you to think the bible is word of god is absolute is crazy, THINK people THINK
“Theres some source behind it all”
“Some being”
You don’t even identify Him as your God???? Wow
Some say that (being) is still out there 😂
flat out denying God!
Homosexuality is not a sin!
I feel like I’m cheating on jubilee w a knock off version uhh
SAME! lolz
actually this way is better, they have real christian views instead of the diluted views that are mostly unbiblical views and do not represent the Bible stance on many issues rather their own perceptions.
I'd honestly prefer this channel over jubilee
So many people here seem to be Spirit-led as well-truly in love with the man named Jesus! What a wonderful channel and community!!
Omg.. my thoughts exactly 🤣
"I don't think there's a divine document out there that lays out God's preferred order of things."
Look up the 10 Commandments
Gladly which version?
@@ryr1974 The one from God
#Facts💯...actually, there are about 900+ Commandments given to the 12 tribes of Israel...God broke it way down for us🤣
The entire Bible to be honest 😂 Old and New Testament
@@harrisonhightower8255 I love that answer.
It's like watching a solid unmoveable rock have a conversation with a balloon carried about by a directionless breeze...
Carried about by every wind of doctrine
Hahahaha 🤣
Precisely
I laughed😂
Very good comment 😅
if you don't believe that god establishes a right and wrong then how can you be christian? i genuinely don't understand
The bible is lie
@Jadon Frick if u neeed the bible to tell u how to be a good person then that you that’s not everyone, Christ conscious ppl know Christ n his heart not the biggots who edited the bible, I find it hard to believe Jesus hated gays that’s coming from a straight person. Death is certain for everyone so when u die hope it is really what u think I hope ur following ur scriptures word for word have a great day
@Jadon Frick okay have a nice day I’m not about to go back n forth
I don’t believe in organised religions I believe in a creator n I believe in Jesus
@Jadon Frick I’m not gonna argue with a fool
Dude with the beard has created his own religion 🤯
I agree with you
He’s most definitely confused
His own personal Jesus..
It's called idolatry. I pray the Lord opens his eyes.
Right?? That was my impression.
this man in the lighter shirt definitely has the holy spirit !
Yup! No way he could have been so respectful with someone with such disregard for scripture without it
Honestly.... Like he Wasn't judgmental at all... Even though he knew the bearded guy really needs enlightenment..
At Anonymous, saying that someone doesn't know what the Scriptures say is not judgemental at all; in fact, it is quite true. Besides that, in 1 CORINTHIANS 6, Paul (through revelation by Holy Spirit says that we [Believers in Jesus- Christ, will judge angels so then how much more a mere human being? Now, I qualify this by expanding that we [Believers in Jesus- Christ] are to make "right" judgements (meaning, judgement based in righteousness ,wisdom, and grace).
@Anonymous I agree. However, that's not what actually happened. After watching Part 1 and Part 2, it is apparent that "Progressive" guy doesn't have his facts straight; and therefore, is not in a position to speak incorrectly about Scripture. Therefore, a "gentle rebuke" was necessary. "'Progressive's"' mind was made up long before he entered Into that conversation
@@artistmajor you couldn't have said it any better really... Hats off..
The Christian man cracks me up just sitting there grunting like “yes, I’m going to pretend like you’re making sense. Furthermore, here’s some truth from the Bible.”
Perfect way to put it but... It saddens me how lost the guy with the beard is
Hahahaha
You clearly don’t care about the bearded man then.
Riiiight. He said how can we know what God's expectations are?? I was like cuz he wrote em out to us! And this man the most gentle and descriptive response ever back...baisicly the bible
@@NailsByChelsie Then how do you explain Jesus' exhortation to the 12 about the hidden knowledge that even they would never understand????
Beard guy has figured out a god that works well for him.
The bearded hipster guy worships a false god of his own making - in other words he worships an idol.
If God creates gay people, then surely he himself doesn't mind LGBT people....Boom!
@@M_W_L_F God creates people who are attracted to children...
I think he has not figured out God at all and is humble enough to say so.
"Figuring out a god that works well for them" is precisely what humans have been doing for at least six thousand years.
I’m literally so confused because he claimed to be a Christian in the beginning right? But everything he says is so far from this..... He said a lot but there was no substance. Just glancing on a multitude of topics without any real benefit to himself or the conversation at hand......
Yes, like not getting deep into the fate of Achan's kids, in Joshua 7...?
Born into a Christian family. I once thought I was a Christian too. It took me about 10 years of struggle until I actually became one. Claiming to be someone doesn't always prove one to be so. Its like the parable about where the seed falls, it might seem so for a little while but only time shows..
@@daniilkrivov4764 And what was the deciding factor, why is the gate out of this world narrow - but the one for, disloyal, delusional angels, broad - and what was meant, to happen to Jews, post 1 Corinthians 10, and Matthew 27:25 - if I may?
@@chrissonofpear1384 The gate is narrow because God does not use the term good enough.
@@chrissonofpear1384 Also, it seems I left a mess my first comment. I left the Christian faith to seek the truth for myself since I couldn't understand why other religions or view points were not valid. So at that point I was never really Christian, since that thought was even possible. Later, in trying to find God and experiencing certain hardships, crisis and anxiety as well as observing it in others who did not live by the faith is when Jesus started to speak to me for the first time.
me every five seconds: "what??"
I literally said "🤨 what?!?"... and came liked this post....
You and me both
HONESTLY
Reading these comments makes me so proud 🥲
I was just thinking the exact same thing. It's refreshing that so many are so strongly opposed to the progressive "Christian" and recognizing it a no Christianity at all
Your so proud that your religion teaches and encourages homophobia! wow
Yes!
@@jamiecarson2896 The Bible and the religion itself doesn’t encourage homophobia. It’s the “Christians” that think being homophobic is God’s will that encourage and teach it. I promise you these same people in the comments that are talking do way nastier things than you think.
@@jamiecarson2896 Christianity does not encourage hate of any kind. As Christians we are taught to hate the sin, not the sinner. In other words, hate the act of homosexuality but still love everyone, including homosexuals.
I’m glad the solid one has a strong background in systematic theology. His arguments are clearly laid out and supported.
and you know what God thinks, right!?
@@camerong5513 Well, considering that He provided His inspired Word to share the Law, the Gospel, and ultimately His Nature; we can certainly gain a better grasp (as much as is possible).
@@CyrusStratton and I'd bank money your grasp is none too firm, fella
@@camerong5513 I do not. I only know what He told us about Himself
@@andrewbradley3305 you have some opinions
BTW - I didn't ask you anything
I don’t know how you can claim to be a Christian pastor and not believe in God.....or the Bible. It is literally the only unchanging truth that we have to hold on to. Without it, there is no compass. This makes me so sad! 😢
This unchanging truth you speak of allowed the inquisition, acceptance of slavery, burning of witches. And these people were sure that it was truth. What the bearded man is highlighting is that, just because we think our interpretation of the Bible is true, so did everyone else in the past who messed up. If you look at the fruits of these bigoted beliefs you can see how they don't line up to Jesus's actions, yet they were so sure of themselves. People today are doing the exact same thing.
Paul that is incorrect that was man's interpretation of scripture and that is why this type of teaching is completely inaccurate and Wrong!
People today are and I would say wrong. The Bible talks about cutting your right off if it sins. God said he would spew the lukewarm out of his mouth... meaning People who are just easy going standing up for nothing, for everything. That is what this Woke Pastor is!
@Paul Fears no where in the Bible does it accept slavery or anything you mentioned. where us humans get it wrong is when we try to use the Bible to Justify our earthly desires rather than letting the Bible change them. Christians back then who used the Bible to justify slavery are just as bad as Christians now who use the Bible to justify different sins like homosexuality and other sins. It doesn’t matter how we think to interpret the Bible, because we as humans are flawed. When we read the Bible we have to interpret it with context studying and knowing what the text is actually trying to say.
This whole comment section is so disappointed. Life doesnt fit perfectly into the Bible and what it says, and to believe it does is naive.
The dude with the beard contradicts himself so much. Clever “word salads” he mixes up for his own belief system. Does he know Jesus, the Word, the Truth? He’s a pastor? God help us! Deception is rampant in these days.
Ya, you gotta be a vile heartless monster to be a real Christian today. If you actually listen to the words of Christ, you will be rejected, and ridiculed for not supporting the hatred and violence in the rest of the bible. I can only imagine the "word salads that you would come with up to justify the murders in the O.T....
I’m glad I’m not the only that notice. I wish the other guy would point this out but I liked his approach over all.
I don't understand where he contradicted himself. But I do think he does not explain his views as clearly as Charles Finney does in his Systematic Theology. Do you know about Charles Finney and his Systematic Theology Book.
"Word salads"....nice
@@nayrreztiewhcs1225 Remember salads though not popular are health and natural. Word salads like John Cassian a man who live in the 4th century were not invented because people were so much more peaceful then. They were the natural way they had at explaining the human condition. So saying the violence of the leaving of Egypt and entering the promise land was a metaphor for the conquest of personal human faults is helpful for personal growth.
After his opening statement you should have shared the gospel with him, because he is certainly not a Christian.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
He did. When he said he learned at youth camp that deserved hell but Jesus took his punishment on the cross. He said it in the first 5 minutes.
FYI- some LGBTQ+ advocacy efforts are directed towards changing the culture and beliefs on homosexuality of the christian church from within. If you follow lgbtq politics and their some of their organizations, you’ll understand these are Organized and deliberate efforts
He did when sharing his testimony
I hope/pray that he WAS in effect sharing the gospel with him, seeing as he steadfastly sourced the Truth.
36:14. My jaw dropped when a pastor asked, how are we supposed to know what God will is... SMH
I know, it was truly shocking!
Love how much wisdom and clarity I see in the comments, but please please pray for this man! If we don't have Love we can understand all things and still be nothing.
Amen
Uh please stop not everyone believes in god
@@panaderodegalletas3137 If he doesn't believe in God, he isn't a Christian or a pastor and his congregation isn't a church. He's like a child playing house with his toddler friends, it means nothing.
@@Auliyah_not_urs your saying not believing in god is not correct it’s opinion based dumb
@@Auliyah_not_urs and not all churches worship god you have atheist churches
the guy with the beard talks a lot without actually saying anything
Toooooooo true!
Socrates 😂😂
This is what Marxism is... a lot of sayings and theories that can’t be proven beneficial through the test of time and also amount to more destruction/emptiness than anything
My thoughts exactly.
I'm struggling to understand exactly what it is he believes. Does he even know? He's leading a flock to disaster.
It’s like I’m getting smarter and dumber at the same time. 🤣🤣🤣
Funny! Same!!
Totally
You’ve pretty much hit the nail on the head
Facts
😂😂
We know because we have the Holy Spirit living in us to convict us of what Gods word says in relation to ourselves and this world.
Difficult to understand how someone who says, ""I don't think there is some sort of divine document out there that lays out a Being's preferred order of things" claims to be a Christ-follower. Without the Bible, we are just making up our own religion. Why go to church or listen to a pastor'ss words if they are not backed up by something that is more than them. The truth is that for the progressive Christian here, Religion has stayed yet reality has died.
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has a God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
Ladies and gentlemen, the effect of postmodernism on the American church.
Agreed. Postmodern Leftists only believe in power and conflict between groups. They deceitfully claim they endorse religion but when you dig into their philosophy, they hate it and demonize Christians as in their eyes religion is power to “oppress” minority groups.
They use religion as a tool to push their agenda. They ignore universal ideas of Christianity and change them to fit their politics.
“Progressive” Christianity is not Christianity.
“Social Justice” is not true justice.
Love in the Bible is not forced altruism but accountability. And the list goes on...
Exactly, it is hard to find a church that actually believes the Word of God.
Worldwide *
True unfortunately
This all literally ties back to the serpent's lie in the garden of Eden.
Genesis 3:5
"For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
We as humans (for a while now) have turned away from God, and started defining good and evil on our own terms, instead of relying on God's wisdom to lead us. Postmodern thinking relies on the basis that truth can be subjective. This is false. There can only be one truth, it's common sense. When we as humans turn away from God, we turn away from objective truth. When we turn away from objective truth (essentially God) we invite evil thoughts, and evil deeds to start polluting our societies, and minds. Ever since the consuming of the forbidden fruit, we have become like God, meaning we have started to define good and evil on our own terms, and are now letting each other run free and liberal, doing all sorts of abominations.
The Bible literally ties in the beginning of the world, to how modern America is currently functioning as a whole. Beautifully woven together!
His main argument is: “We can’t know the Truth.”
You can know RIGHT THEN that he is not born again.. because Jesus Christ said I am THE Way, THE Truth and THE Life, NO MAN comes to the Father EXCEPT THROUGH ME....
Early on into the video, I get a weird vibe that Professor Owen Strachan isn't arguing with a progressive pastor, but with a non-believer.
Brennan, I think it's worth noting you don't know this with certainty but there is more evidence in this video for that than not. the idea of this guy referring to himself as "pastor" is absolutely horrifying.
@@dmmusicmusic was not meaning to call him a non-believer in any way. I was making the correlation that maybe 20 years ago these same conversations were being held with non-believers, not fellow pastors.
Man, I was really hoping this Spurgeon-bearded man was the solid Christian. I guess good theology doesn’t always come from having a majestic beard 🧔🏻
haha good one:) and he has my last name :(
I knew he was the progressive "pastor" just by looking at him.
@@fernandosimon5621 Lol
Lol! Sorry to disappoint.
-The Spurgeon Bearded Man
@@mrcolbymartin still an epic beard and good dialogue, thanks for partaking in this.
“Progressive” is not progressive just simply because of the ability to word-smith. If you blatantly deny the existence of God, you can not call yourself a Christian, according to scripture. Maybe a Christian in the sense of a good or spiritual person. But, not a biblical christian. It doesn’t matter what “you think it means”. Our role is not to read into the text what we think it means. Our role is to discover what God is saying to us! Massive difference.
Jesus wasn't a biblical christian. And Progressives don't deny the existence of God, nor do I think Colby did that.
He's not a wordsmith. He sounds like an idiot to me.
@@4thbrooker Jesus was a Torah observant Jew who held to the old testament as the "word of God."
@@canjamm10 What is your point?
@@4thbrooker What do "you" mean Jesus wasn't a biblical Christian?
Christian means follower of Christ and Jesus Christ affirmed that the scriptures (old testament) was God's word. Jesus was a biblical Jew therefore followers of Christ are to be biblical Christians.
So I'm not sure what you meant by "Jesus wasn't a biblical Christian."
Colby Martin’s initial point of “God not having a design” goes against the notion and definitions God.
Can't believe the guy on the right has been a pastor for 15 years...
“Pastor”. Those poor people.
He is just not for the Gd of Abraham. The one true Gd.
When the progressive guy says at 18:10 he 'rejects' the idea of God as a being who has a design and plan for people and existence, that pretty much sums it up: he rejects the God revealed and creates his own God in response. Good luck with that.
Why can't you guys take the time to even pay him the respect of using his name, instead of "the progressive guy". Damn, it hurts thinking y'all are representing christ.
@@elizabethramsey2429 Umm...the podcast is called 'progressive vs. conservative' so...that would be why.
@@elizabethramsey2429 when the argument is lacking, attack the character, eh? You’re displaying a wonderful logical fallacy
Exactly right.
If God has a design he sure fucked up greatly, leaving us to pick up the pieces,
I haven't even watched the video yet, but it's so good to see in the comment section that there are many Christians in the world who still believes in God. Sometimes it can feel so lonely in this world but with true brothers and sisters we can endure it. And ofc with God 🙏🏻
I think that as believers, we need to be very cautious of the way we react toward people like the bearded dude. It is in our flesh to slanderously condemn people such as him. We need to keep men and women who subscribe to this unbiblical way of thing in our prayers because they are representing Christ, which a huge title to bear.
Well fundamentalists are hateful beings
@@Jonqen By fundamentalist do you mean holding fast to sound Biblical doctrine?
@@bellegendron8446 That question was in itself filled with agenda. You guys believe there is only your way of interpretating the bible when men throughout historia have had thousand different ways of reading scripture. Just look at the amount of protestant movements that grows like a virus everywhere you look. You guys arent even reading scripture the way it was read by the first christians still you judge liberal minded individuals on your high horses of lies and dishonesty
@@Jonqen Is there not a correct way to interpret scripture? What is scripture? According to Merriam-Webster: a(1)The books of the Bible
(2) A passage from the Bible
b : a body of writings considered sacred or authoritative
What makes the Bible sacred or authoritative? Let's use scripture to interpret scripture:
2 Timothy 3:16
"All scripture is given my inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"
2Peter 1:20-21
"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."
1Corinthians 15:1-4
Moreover brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand: By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I have preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures."
Jesus himself always appealed to the authority of scripture:
Matthew 4:4
"It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."
Matthew 4:7
It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God."
Matthew 22:29
"Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God."
John 10:35
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken..."
The authority of the scriptures comes from God himself. It is useful for correction, for instruction in righteousness, it cannot be broken nor is it open to private interpretation. If anyone calls themselves a Christian, they must follow after Jesus.
Matthew 16:24
"If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow me."
John 14:15
"If ye love me, keep my commandments."
We wouldn't know who Jesus was or what he taught without the scriptures.
Amen
The bearded individual, for a pastor he sure does not use the bible for reference nor does he seem to understand or respect Genesis
A Christian vs a humanist.
How can Colby hold to anything being good or bad, by what standard does he hold to? The reason why he makes "moral" statements is because he is borrowing from the biblical worldview while yet denying it.
@jt stead, I certainly don't identify as "humanist," but I can understand why you'd say that.
I actually don't deny borrowing/using (hell, even teaching!) Biblical wisdom and Truths found therein. Sorry if my words in the video conveyed otherwise (I certainly don't recall "deny" it, as you say).
@@mrcolbymartin You cannot call yourself a Christian while denying the Bible itself. God knew all things of his creation for all time, and never changed the truths of the Bible. He has mapped out and described his expectations- in the Bible. From what I gather you are in a very dangerous position heading towards greater judgement and condemnation, especially being a shepherd. Please pray for discernment. I heard your wife is a co-pastor. This is unbiblical. If you break one of the laws of God you break them all, and when you deny one part of his word (the word that became flesh - Jesus Christ, the same always) that is explicit and clear - you deny God himself.
1 Timothy 2:12 “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence”
I have so much love for you and I want you to know that God is warning you time and time again, please heed to his warnings; they will only come for so long.
@@mrcolbymartin Proverbs 9:8 “Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.”
@Wan Isaiah 64:6
“But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.”
Christ told us that we are all sinners and are guilty before a Holy God and will be judged accordingly, and that our “good” deeds do not pay for the bad deeds we have done.
Romans 3:10-13 ESV
“None is righteous, no, not one;
no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
Their throat is an open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive.
The venom of asps is under their lips.”
Jesus Christ has paid the price for the names written in the Lamb’s book of life (those who will be saved) with his work on the cross and by him fulfilling all righteousness/going under the law to free us from the law (as in fulfilling the law - never sinning). This does not mean however the law is abolished, it brings us to the knowledge of sin and rather than abolished it is established by faith (from Romans).
We are saved by grace through faith in Christ/God. Repent and turn from your sin and towards the Lord.
Jesus says in John 14:6
“Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
He is the only way - true Biblical (sola scriptura) Christianity is the way he outlines. There is no other way. Any other Jesus that is different than the Jesus written about in the Bible does not have the power (the power to save) that the Bible says he has. Therefore you must believe in the exact Jesus that scriptures tells us about. The Bible is entirely complete, it is all true, and it is all authoritative as it says in
2 Timothy 3:16-17 “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
@Wan No. He was Eternal, Creator, God who took on flesh and died on the cross for sinners and rose again form the dead. He is Lord and he commands sinners to repent of their humanism - their idol of self. Their search of meaning only in the natural world. Humanism by definition rejects any absolutes like a personal, knowable God. Therefore meaning, unity, mortality, knowledge, and human dignity can only be found in autonomous man. Humanism rejects any moral standard that mankind is to conform too. Jesus said "I am the way, truth, and the life" Therefore meaning, unity, mortality, knowledge, and human dignity can only be found and have its source in eternal God. Big difference.
He keeps saying "for me" and "I think" zero Word basis. What I feel or think is irrelevant especially when it is contrary to the Word of God.
Well a lot of Christians i meet dont really have the interests of many people at heart. Many only care about themselves and don't advocate for lgbtq rights, social justice, religious equality, trans rights,....
Sheep
Every single religious person has a different idea of what the word of God is.
“I hear you but I don’t think you’re right” = “My flesh just won’t let me agree with the word of God. I’d rather interpret it my way.”
This man is the perfect example of how the human mind is naturally hostile toward God. Humans innately do not want a standard. We are naturally loose and unordered. Romans 8:7 That is all. 💯
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Totally.. the progressive man is listening to his heart, not the Holy Spirit..
I dunno I'd say that the biblical view on gay people has led to some pretty horrible ideas and actions in the world. I think if the bible never condemned non heterosexuality, the world would be better for it. I don't know about you but I think a world where I don't have to argue for my rights is a better one.
@@cigarettesister I agree everyone should have rights. I’m all for LGBT receiving equal healthcare services and being able to work in their workplace without discrimination just to name a few things. However the Bible is very gracious when it speaks of gays we are called to love everyone regardless and honestly some Christians get it wrong. The thing is that God set his people apart from the world so we cannot follow the trend of what we see in the world today we are to stand firm on what the Bible says. I don’t know if you’re Christian but until you understand God and his holiness it won’t make any sense. Society has conditioned us to be “nice” humans that agree with everything but that never benefits any society. If everyone just blindly agreed with Christianity it wouldn’t really be beneficial either. It’s a two way street.
@@lashywu1330 How is society "agreeing with everything"?
From my moral framework, I want to maximize human wellbeing. In the case of LGBTQ people, living our lives causes no harm, and anti LGBTQ sentiment most certainly does. It's pretty clear that these sentiments are what leads to people taking away my rights like what the trump administration did with rolling back LGBTQ protections on those seeking health and welfare services.