Becoming a problem? It has been a problem for years IMO. Stock tier 6s and regular tier 6s in general should NEVER have to play against a bz 176 or grom or skoda t56. its downright stupid. Tho I do agree the game becomes really dull when its same tier games. Its kind of a tricky spot. But I wonder if +- 1 MM would work.
Going from +-2 to 1 would basically just make it so you have smaller advantage when you are top tier, and smaller disadvantage at bottom tier. It would make matches feel a lot more consistent and i could finally play my O-I without getting eaten alive by tier 8 heavies.
Yeah It doesnt happen that much to me in my server/region And I dont play tier 6 that much anymore. But I cant fathom the thought that my t-34-85 can meet a BZ-176 or grom
i would argue that when they make broken preimum tank like the BZ and ELC, just make them t8 and above. like a reverse E25... it cant meet T9. so make it the same but in reverse.
If you looked further than the thumbnail, you'll see that QB is not against +/- 2 matchmaking - something he points out nearly every live stream, but its the sheer number of OP tier 8 premium tanks that are ruining the game. And the server stats show why tier 8 premiums are played so much......on EU server the last 30 days, all 60 tanks at tier 8 that have a win rate over 50% are premium. (The only non-premium tanks in the top 83 by win rate are artillery)
@@clivedinosaur8407 Sir, I did watch the video. Yes he is not against +2, but I said he ACKNOWLEDGED that there was a problem. If you looked past the word in the dictionary, you would know what I meant.
all on purpose so you buy higher tier tanks that you cant afford because free to play economy is unsustainable in higher tiers, thus free to plays are cannon fodder for real money tanks that are op
@@soldier22881pay to play, yeah. pay to win, no. I love my leo pta, skoda meds... Tiger 2, JP2, Kilana T29, Tiger I, A44 M18 Hellcat, SDP 44 Burza, Arl44,... every tier has gems, most are viable options most can be played without losing credits. But WG is a company, not welfare. So yeah.... pay to play should be "normal"? Or are you working for free at your job?
Or even more fitting, late 2018 when he made the trio of videos talking about the future of World of Tanks and what changes should implemented, along with the fact that in those videos, he predicted the game would go on for another 3 to 5 years Yet here we are 5 years later
Nowadays it should only be +1 since we already have so many tier 8.5 prems. A tier 7 going against something like the Grom is already such a fking BS. Making something like the Cromwell going against Grom or the BZ is a warcrime.
And to add salt to the injury, Cromwell is one of the best tanks of tier 6... That makes it even more stupid. Because of the inbalance of tier 8 and crazy ammount of players playing that tier (WG can't seem to grasp the problem of stupid numbers of T8 prems compared to other tiers, especialy lower ones) and balancing them mainly against T8+, thus making them effectively a tier 8.5 tanks), tier 6 & 7 is basicaly unplayable nowdays (and those tiers used to be/still should be bread and butter of WoT => the tiers where newbies started dipping their toes into higher tier play). At this point, they should gradually buff all the tanks between tier 5 to 7 to bring the balance between tiers kind of back, and softly overlap the gap + make some incentives to play those tiers (I have my ideas, but that would be for a half a book long read), since they are still unwilling to nerf premiums, whitch is quite understandable at this point... Too many of them to not create massive exodus, they should've seen this problem much sooner...
Yes true, back in the day f.e. 2 tier 7 meds would win of 1 tier 8 med but me and a platoonmate got washes away by a m48 rpz. Shows the gap between standard tanks and overpowered premiums
They should cancel upgrading tanks alltogether, it is not fair to drive a T6 that runs a T5 or 4 gun against T8s. You cant even shoot it out with gold. Tank should just come as it would be played and be able to switch guns if its a tank that offers options
thats not just the case for Tier 6 and 7.. I just recently played stock 25tp at Tier 5. Was quite fun farming 8100 xp against Tier 7 Tanks, while I cant even penetrate Tier 5 tanks due to my 52 Pen stock gun. Whats the point? I was completely useless to the team.
+2 is great when you are on top, or those SUPER rare moments when you can have a hero moment as a bottom tier tank, but overall it sucks, especially as a bottom tier heavy (no armour, cant pen, cant spot, no camo, like what do you do?). +/- 1 MM would be a great alternative also, QB, why no 2k/4k youtube videos?
-1/+1 MM is something that players and CC's suggested for years, I'm honestly amazed WG didn't do anything about it. The powercreep has made some tanks incredibly powerful as top tiers and there is no other way around that than changing MM. Before the HP buff for low tiers I think that tier III and IV was the most miserable when uptiered, you couldn't really do anything substantial in those battles. Now tier VI is the most problematic in uptiers just like in the video.
No joke, i play tier 10 and 80% of the games are all 10s. I play tier 8 and 60% of the time im bottom tier in a tier 10 game. I kept stats for myself over a period of time and got these numbers
It's actually insane right? Personally I do play tier 8 more often just for credit grinding, so I guess statistically it's more plausible. But still, it's ridiculous how often you get against tier 10s in tier 8.
This happens to me too. Being top tier in a tier 8 is a shock to the system lol. It’s a pleasant surprise to get that, or even a few games with all tier 8’s. +-1 mm would definitely help a lot of folk. Problem is, I think it’s more than that. Like all these op tanks that come out, that only folk willing to spend a lot, can get. Tanks like the Grom and BZ against tier 6 and most tier 7’s is just stupid. At the same time, it’s how people play the game. Just cause you are in a tier 6 heavy tank, doesn’t mean you can go head on against a tier 8 heavy (especially these premium tanks). Another problem is the way the game is set up. A lot of tanks need to use gold to compete in these +-2 mm games, and not everyone can afford to do that, it’s set up to force the gold spamming (prob why top tier games are few and far between). I don’t think WG will change their mm as +-2 forces folk to spam the gold (more cash if they need to get more credits to get that ammo). I have premium but seems when you use that gold and get an ok game, you still lose credits. So +-2 mm, new premium tanks, having to spam gold with some players unable to afford to do that, constant bottom tier matches, players who think all tanks are equal and play as though they are. All results in bad games. +-1 mm would help, but not sure if they will change it, as they want players to use gold - what best way to do that but to put them in a +-2 game as bottom tier. The reason isn’t just +-2 mm as I’ve been in games where I am bottom tier but have double the damage of the top tier players.
glad i dont play this pay to win game anymore, this is all your fault guys you enabled greedy devs this is what you get, now sleep in the bed you guys made
7:25 the only "variety" lost will be that you don't have to struggle against good +2 players, while your +2 players are licking themselves, and if unicums, the cream on top of the playerbase, are the only people who lose something of value then that is a sacrifice absolutely worth making
My issue with +2MM is that EVERY game in my T28 Proto I am low tier and struggle every game. I feel lucky to get an all Tier VIII game, but even then I am still low tier.
Yeah that’s a prem tank problem They flood t8 so normal tanks get shoved into higher tiers in the mm All changing the mm does for this problem is put you against more prem t8s Like the BZ, Skods, and anything Russian WG sold for cash in their auctions
Agree , seems like I always get bottom tiered when or if I play a t7-t9 tank. And there is a specific " platoon" that mostly take the top 3 spots whenever I go on a losing streak. Hmmm
Well unless you a gold spamming , power player with a max skill commander, ( xbox) always teamed with your unicom buddies you have a great time Im sure. I stopped caring about stats, because of the above reason
Recently spent evening, 6 hours , playing scorpion td at tier 7. Played 43 matches in all. The whole evening, i never saw a tier 5 or 6 tank. 4 matches was all tier 7. 23 matches at tier 8 and 16 at tier 9. its even worse when these matches are quick as you don't have the firepower to influence or halt a char future 4 charging at you. And when you add to this the fact you seem to end up in really "questionable" teams where so called good players play like bots, you feel helpless and just want to uninstall the game. You end the evening with a less than 30% win rate , where you were only top tier 9.31% of the matches.
its my experience as well. To the point where i started counting the proportion of top tier to bottom tier. I'll get often same tier mm, mostly +1, a still a bit of +2. Being top tier was like this rarest of events... It led me to, not uninstall, but spend a year without touching it.
To reduce T8 players, you could also simply increase the credit income in general. I play my T8 premiums almost exclusively to farm credits. I play other tanks for fun
@@InspirationalCake because wg made it recently to earn less credits even with premium account and boosters, yiu dont make as much as before and when i told QB in stream he said is not true but it is, wg made it so credits that u make nowadays are farr less then before
Fact- +2 has always been a problem unless you’re on top or you’re a really good player. If you’re average Joe you’re usually on bottom without the skills to overcome.
omg, your reasoning for +2mm... you play 100 games a day, regular people do 5-10, and we dont get burned out. and you are 6-7 times bottom, 2-3 times same, and max 1 time top out of 10 games. so its just pure frustration.
Yeah this has made me wonder so long, it's basically always like this, every day. If I play tier 8, it's a tier 10 game, if I play tier 9, it's only 9 and 10, if I play tier 10, it's only tier 10... But to even things out, there must be someone who are 6-7 times top, 2-3 times even tier and 1 time bottom, right? Who are they? The ones who use most money in the WG shop?
Exactly! I stopped playing 2 months ago because of this very reason. I have an hour or two to play after work and it just isn't enjoyable to be bottom tier most of my session. I ended up ignoring 99 percent of my tanks and went to ones with pref MM.
The most painful thing about +2 is being top tier in a stock tank. If u get matched up against a player with a better tank then u just can't carry the game for your team like you're expected to...
I avoid playing stock completely. Accumulate free-XP for modules and blueprints for tanks so you can field a competitive tank from day one. Having just about everything researched I guess I am speaking from a point of privilege, still I had enough painful stock grinds that I adopted this approach long ago. Carefully decide which lines you want to play and always have a skilled crew, all critical modules, and good equipment.
+2MM has been a problem for YEARS. WG keeps it so that the MM can give bad players a better chance to win when facing tanks 1 or 2 tiers lower. Facing tanks 2 tiers higher also promotes 2 key spam, which WG likes to eat up credits. I only play tier 9 and 10 and these are just some of the reasons why.
Ive been saying this for 8 years. +2/-2 is a problem. It was needed during during the early days of Closed Beta due to the small numbers playing, but once the game was released, it should have all been same tier matchmaking. Facing tanks that you cannot pen is not good game play. That's too late now. Now, the only way to fix MM due to decreased numbers playing is +1/-1.
Its unfair how often you are bottom tier in your lower tier tanks, basically cannon fodder, fix it by ensuring that 30% of battles are same tier and the other 30% top tier and most players would enjoy the game so much more.
I haven't been playing WoT for a long time, but I dread to think if there are more tanks like the infamous BZ-176 that just obliterates any unfortunate ones in T6 tanks that are matched against them... +/- 2 MM has been loudly voiced by players for a LONG time as a big problem.
The +2 to -2 matchmaking only exists to make bad players get a chance at dealing 500 dmg instead of 0 and make the good players not stomp every match basically the worst thing the game has
The only way to justify keeping +2 matchmaking is to lessen the power difference between tiers. They did this a little when they buffed lower tier tanks, but I wonder if WG has the fortitude to do this for higher tiers. Personally, I believe tier 6 tanks should never meet tier 8 tanks, the power difference is astronomical. WG should get rid of +2 matchmaking for all tiers or more evenly match the power of the tiers.
driving in heavies 2 tiers below the rest of the team is such fun, slow arsed tanks with armour and pen which is useless against tanks 2 tiers above...such fun..oh and the gold spam from 2 tier higher tanks is even MORE fun.... always tier 10 players that say that +/-2 MM is good for the game...
THANK YOU QB for coming back to a regular, casual players view of +/- 2 match making. I have rage quit several times after playing a T6 or T8 and being bottom tier, getting one or two shotted game after game. The Alpha Creep in the upper tiers and, as you mentioned the Pen Creep, has aggravated this to a extreme degree. Playing an E25 in a tier 9 game is a waste of time, all you can do is scout and try to not be spotted. Not to mention T6/7 tanks have a much lower Alpha, there are T8 tanks I would have to pen 5 to 9 times to kill them, while they need just two shots on me. Hard to trade effectively at that rate....
They could modify the matchmaker to ensure that some tanks can't meet lower tiers. They could make it so tier 8.5 tanks like the Skoda T56 can only meet -1/+2. While some tanks like the BZ-176 can only meet +0/+2. Tanks like the 112 or M6A2E1 could have -2/+1 matchmaking.
@@martin913913 I agree, the tanks with preferential matchmaking are outdated compared to their newer same-tier counterparts. The problem is that you can't just buff tier 8 tanks, because all you're doing is widening the gap between tier 7 and tier 8. The only real solution is to nerf the overpowered tier 8.5 tanks, but Wargaming is afraid of lawsuits if they do that.
I have a 112 premium that I purchased years ago because it never see's tier 10 but it has been power creeped and has only 190 mm pen it would struggle against tier 6 now days.
@@albazar 190 mm pen is okay on a relatively fast firing and accurate medium tank like the T-44 or Type 59. The 112 for example has 0.42 dispersion, a 12 second reload and only a mediocre 1900 DPM. It's the combination of multiple bad statistics that ends up really killing the tank.
My biggest problem with the game is the small size of the maps. With small maps. We need maps Where all types of tanks can shine. No matter if you are a paper armor tanks or a assault tanks with no spotting range but heavy armor.
Tanks used to be a whole lot slower and viewranges used to be a lot less as well. That is what the maps are designed for. The soviet t54 used to be to fast for the server to render lol. Now it isn't concidered fast at all anymore.
The problem with +2 comes when you are constantly bottom tier and that gets old quickly. If WG added something where you can be bottom tier 2 games then the next 2 you are either top or even tier.
@@yoyoyo-r3m I'd be ok with being bottom tier if the cost of the match was removed for bottom tier tanks..... would still be "challenging" but not financially frustrating.
Kind of a text dump, but I don’t really care: This the the main reason I no longer play console or the blitz version (never stuck with the PC version) and moved on to War Thunder. Tier 6-10 become the hole where all premium vehicles are, meaning that anybody that plays a premium end up in those tiers. When you make a tier 8 that can fight tier 10’s and you also make it so that the tier 8 can put up a fight against a tier 10, then it will just annihilate tier 6’s, much like the Grom you played in this video. This game holds a special place in my heart for what it once was, and while there have been a lot of improvements over time, there have been just as many terrible updates and implementations. I think there’s just way too many stats in World of Tanks that are used to balance vehicles. As well as War Gaming’s “never nerf a premium” policy. While it’s grounded in good intentions, it just does not hold up anymore. In War Thunder, most vehicles never have any features removed or added, buffed or nerfed after their introduction. For a vehicle to be changed there has to be a (real) document proving the changes requested exist in real life - hence the occasional classified document leaks that War Thunder produces as a byproduct of this. What War Thunder does do, however, is change the so called “Battle Rating”, equivalent to tiers in World of Tanks, whenever and however they want. That way, a ridiculously strong vehicle at, say 9.0, can be moved to 10.0. It would be nice if World of Tanks had something similar where tanks, depending on their performance, could be moved up or down in tiers. Not saying War Thunder is perfect, because it is not, but it would be nice if these two “competitors” would actually acknowledge some of the other’s good implementations and implement them themselves.
You are absolutely right. Playing tier 6 and tier 7 reminds me of the very beginning of WoT when I played M3Lee against KV2 or PzIV against KV5. That's why today we have players who skip grinding all the tanks and play high ranks with little knowledge and experience, thus ruining the game.
adding tier11 is probably the worst idea tbh as it just adds more to the original problem, 1mm is the best way to handle the situation and im surprised it hasnt been implemented already, it fixes loads of balancing issues and makes the game a lot more enjoyable on a game to game basis, especially for casual players who just want to hop on and shoot some shells, not having to sweat in their T34-85 against a Bz 176 or a grom
If they added t11 they should make it play only against other t11 or t10. Ye its painfull to play against bz-176 on t6 but if you play something else than heavy you can avoid them most of the time
Just adding tier 11 means nothing. What is gonna be in tier 11? even IF the re-distributed certain tiers to be spaced over 2 tiers... then just adding tier 11 would solve nothing.
Yeah being the lower end in the match maker sucks on +2games . But i find it even worst that the teams are most of the times uneven in skills. Either u crush the enemys or u get overrun.
+2MM is a crime for the average player. As a super unique you probably look at this differently, but with a tech.tree tier tank 6 against a Grom all fate is lost to you in advance. Long live variety!
MM should be based on modules installed. That way WG can keep current prem tanks more balanced while bringing back old preiums with preferential mm. The best of both worlds. For instance: Make BZ to be placed very often vs tier 9 or 10 (no nerf to the tank). But, if you install weaker turret and weaker gun, you can have for example mm+1. Or take Super Pershing for example. Make it possible to mount way better gun and you have normal mm. B2 that has +0 mm ? Same thing. Mount better gun or turret and you have +1 etc. WG can still balance this game without nerfing premiums. And of course - this would affect tech tree tanks as well. It would be hard & much work to do as each tank would have to be looked at individually, but it is possible.
@@derrickstorm6976 I know... I just think that it is a shame that WG did not went with that route when they are monetizing the game. Those older tanks with preferential mm were much less destructive for the game balance cuz for the most part they are weaker than tech tree ones. All you are really paying here is better match-up. So I do think that if players can "chose" to install worse gun or engine or turret in exchange for +0 or +1 mm it would be overall better for the game. You could "play safe" and play a tank with worse stats or pick top modules , but risking being bottom tier.
+2 has always been ass. the bottom tiers rarely have a chance to do anything positive unless theyre played by unicums. if decent to amazing players populate the key top tier tanks on one team the other team nearly always gets steamrolled. +1 is fine, it gives variety while still allowing for everybody on each team to have a decent chance. this will never happen though, the difference in armor in +2 accounts for the majority of 2 key spam in the game, which of course benefits WGs bottom line. im a decent player, not a pro. i play tanks with the highest standard pen so i dont have to "pay" to affect a match, cuz f that mechanic. me sitting in a 270 ish pen TD as a top tier 9 against 7s, is friggen stupid and not fun for those 7s.
Bring back the old MM, from pre-2017. I did a stat study on this. Players were top tier much more and the +2/-2MM wasn't as brutal. The current MM forces more lower tier battles, and frustration. The article was on the old WoTLabs website, which appears to be gone now. 😕
It would be great if the matchmaker could take into account player stats/rating and make it so that less skillful players would more likely get into same tier matches, average players would be more likely to get +1 tier matches and good players would more likely get into +2 tier matches. This way those who just like to play casually would be met with other casual players and those sweaty ones would more likely meet other sweaty players. Although this would only solve tier 8 and below battles and maybe tier 9 battles...
+2 has always been awful (especially tier 3 vs tier 5 back then when a tank can’t even physically damage another), but power creep is so bad, even in a tier 8 with tier 6 game, if I’m driving a patriot and the enemy team has a BZ176, then it gets harder and harder to treat that tank as a challenge/raid boss and it gets easier and easier to just give up Also 4:23 before the HE nerf that kv2 had a proper chance, it was the tank version of an equalizer that can even go against a high tier and do damage. Look at it now 11:17 frontline helps pushing tier 8 out of the MM, although you’re still getting depressed from having to fight EBRs, Progettos, and BZs
Console WoT is even worse. Now there’s some tier IX tanks that are so broken they’re dominating tier X. Even if the tier VIII is only +1 they have zero chance
The best tiem for premiums will always be when they were better than stock tanks, but worse than upraded ones... was a great template but they f***ed it up
That concept took a nose dive when they came up with a prem that had no true tech tree counterpart and thus they went berserk. And now they bring out the prem first, which can be alsobutely bonkers and then the tech tree comes after.. (BZ-line) and then you're stuck with the BS. Then with Grom, you'd think they'd learn since Grom came after.. but its just a tier 10 on tier 8... I can't for the life of me understand how WG can keep on swinging to miss EVERYTHING.
I think limiting the tanks capabilities and balancing around +1 -1 MM and using this on these premiums will definitely help and also aid some more gameplay in tiers 9 and 7
All vehicles that rely on armor to be effective (usually heavies but not always) should have pref mm because these tanks suffer most as bottom tier when the armor is useless and they dont have mobility to fall back on. Vehicles that rely on mobility are ok with +/-2 because they can flank, repostion and otherwise use that mobility still. In any case I think whenever a vehicle is bottom tier, at the end of the battle ammo resupply should be free, including gold ammo, because as a bottom tier you usually must fire a lot of gold if you want to get any damage done.
And remove gold rounds ! They f*cking nullify an otherwise decent armored tank where thats supposedly its strength. seriously, the fact that WG doesn't understand armor... everything is either "no armor" or its absolute dogshite impurvious.
the only issue i have with +2mm is the fact that if im lucky 8/10 matches im bottom tier !!! and when im not on bottom its an even tier match ...NEVER top tier
I dont play this game for around 10 years but i keep an eye from time to time thanks to QB and see whats new. The only reason i dont play is matchmaking. I simply refuse to play +2. Until equal or +1 mm comes into the game im ready to give my money.
On the Asia server I used to be an average player wr was approaching 50% but suddenly about a month or two ago it’s down to 30% . Keeps meeting tanks I can’t pen even with gold, the entire team decides to camp in the back in positions that can’t hit anything even if I spot, or entire team goes to one side and get shot to bits in 15- 1 matches. I’m f2p and rarely plays anything higher than t7
if there was an indicator popup "you will be bottom tier next game, please choose your tank wisely for the next game" when you were attempting to join another match this would give people an idea of what tier/tank/type of tank they want to play. They'd be more thankful for the reminder.
Don't agree, plus two mm makes gold rounds a necessity. It also makes games go very quick because of unequal tanks facing each other. I guess both things benefit wg though. Not the players.
I would be careful what you wish for. When they wanted more tier 7s in the Blitz matchmaker they just released a bunch of wildly overpowered premiums lol
I believe there could be a simple solution: keep the +2 mm with a conditional: tier 6 or 7 do not match up against a premium 8 or premium 9; ie premium 8 and premium 9 are restricted to tier 8 and above for match making
It really hasn't been that much of a problem over the last few years. The problem is coming from the fact that they keep adding new tanks with different stats some overpowered some not. Meanwhile, the mid-tier is like tier 6 and tier 7. Barely have gotten that many changes at all to keep up with all of the tier 8s and new tier 9 premiums being added
+2 was a problem years ago. Way before grom or bz-176 or skoda t56 or obj 703. It was a problem when the british tanks were added in the game, because i remember cursing meeting a is3 in the cromwells and comets, when nobody was shooting gold. Yea there is literaly nothing you can do to is 3 while its facing you if you sit in a tier 6 or 7 medium with no gold. As powerful as bz-176 is it is nothing but a free xp and credits for type 5 heavy, the worst tier 10 heavy. The reason why tier 9 is so comfortable is because you only have +1 and you still get to farm all the -2 games.
WG does not care - they are already preparing the next line that can do 800+ damals in one shot (well, actually it's a double shot). It has become so frustrating that I decided to move on to another game.
i don't think ±2 should be completely removed. however it should me minimized as in if the matchmaker cannot create a game in 3 minutes (aka you're sitting and waiting 3min at the loading screen) then it makes a ±2 game. then I'd be fine with it. its the issue that its so common and you're against really strong tanks like Grom, BZ-176, Skoda T56, Bourrasque, Prog, Vipera and many more where you either get one shot or clipped out quickly, have absolutely no chance of fighting back (BZ-176 or Vipera or Defender) so you're forced to load gold but you still get annihilated in mere moments
The problem is also the unfair mm, one team full of good players even with purple wtr against low and mid players. Quess who wins? Its unfair at the least. 😊
With tier 10 and 9 excluded; it doesn't really seem to matter what tier I play - I'm usually 2 tiers down. It's rare that I"m ever top tier in a two tier spread. I get the occasional all tier 8 game, but for the most part; I'm bottom tier no matter what I play.
QB... You keep surprising me over and over again... Slowly, you're realizing what we've known for six years now, but you’re only beginning to feel it! Let me note: it’s already too late. It can’t be fixed anymore. That would require many players, but with each passing day, there are fewer and fewer. By now, it’s impossible to repair this game. WG only cares about the money, and you were blind and ignored us. You said to us, "Skill Issue!" But now that the game is getting worse and worse, you’re the ones crying. You deserve it! You deserve it a thousand times over! And QB... ... Even half of your suggestions for improvement are nonsense and foolishness. ...and yes, I’m angry at you and all the other content creators because you only grew a backbone to stand up against this too late. You are an integral part of why the game has gotten this bad and deteriorated to this point!
One other issue QBaby did not mentioned at all is, that the horrendous amount of battles where you are low tier at T6 and T7 puts loads of pressure to these players to advance as fast as possible to the higher tiers. Even though they dont have the skill yet. As result the skill spread at high tier battles is increasing, making results even more random. Potential viable option would be to increase xp, credit rewards substantial when a low tier tank, damages, kills a higher tier tank, with rewards highest against +2 Tanks of course. Opposite similar, a T8 does get only a tiny reward in XP, Credits when dmg/killing a T6.
For me, I think WoT changed when everything got faster and more accurate. (I'll preface this with I have been playing since the Beta >10 years ago) There was a time when class (light, med, heavy) meant something and you could count the amount of vehicles that could hit a reasonably sized cupola at range (4/10 times in a row) on one hand. The only thing lights could pen from the front were other lights and the lightest of meds at close range, but, heavies couldn't track you at close range/keep up with you unless they used their brains and positioned. There was a time when WoT was slower and planning on a team lv meant more (if you were an IS-2, you were meant to be the wall of one side of the map. You were very slow, slow to reload, and couldn't hit shit unless they were less than 200m away, but if you did they knew it. And you were a wall, even to most tier 7s and some tier 8s. It took teamwork to pull out an entrenched heavy, but the tradeoff was that they were inflexible.). I could go on for ages but I think you get the idea.
I think the other big change was the HE mechanic change. Sure your KV-2 reloaded slower than a snails pace but it didn't matter if you were fighting tier 8s or tier 5s, you had the 152mm gun and you slapped stuff with HE. However they've now reworked the HE mechanic and thus what was a tank that even tier 8s didn't really want to roll infront of (since even if the HE didn't pen it would still slap you for 400 damage and knock out some modules) became something they could just ignore as much as any other tier 6. This was the tradeoff for taking the derp guns on tanks, you were always going to do damage but you were not likely to pen. Now Derp guns are basicaly pointless.
Faster, more alpha, a lot more autoloaders, more pen, more viewrange, much better equipment. All on maps that where designed for how tanks used to be in 2015.
@@rogerk6180 I think the biggest hit to light tanks (and the reason they almost always have to be 50/50 damage dealers) is that most meds and a lot of other tanks can easily max out view range. In maps as "small" as these, most light tanks have very small avenues of movement and the increased accuracy means they are almost always punished heavily for any mistakes.
@@m.d.598 yeah. There are more things that add to this. The fact that repair kits and medkits are now renewable. When was the last time you saw anyone with a damaged engine or gun? Or people having to play more cautious because they already burned their repair kit. 2 loadouts to choose from at every battle makes balanced loadouts a thing of the past because everyone has a perfect maximised loadout now for every battle. Even faster on big maps, even mkre stealthy on bushy maps etc. All this stuff seems like a positive development as a player, but in reality it isn't. It is just even more powercreep and makes strong tanks even stronger. And it heavilly favors better or more dedicated over casual players. Making quality of life for casual players increasingly misserable..
as someone who does not use premium ammo, I can say that +2mm at tier 8 does not bother me that much as +2mm on tier 6, as jump in stats between tier 6 and 8 is much bigger then 8 to 10... for example penetration: tier 6 140mm, tier 8 225mm, thats increase about 60%... tier 8 225mm to 270, increase about 20%... etc...
I appreciate you making a video about this. As a newer, albeit not entirely new player, there is nothing more frustrating than bringing my brand new tier 6 stock tank and getting paired into a tier 8 where I literally am unable to penetrate at all. It seems to me that tanks seem to be designed to be +1/-1. Tier 6 tanks are not designed to fight tanks that are designed to fight tier 10s. I think a +1/-1 would make the game way more approachable and beginner friendly
Today while playing my Tier 8s, I basically had no match without a 60TP in it... What does a Tornvagn meant to do against a 60TP? It is ridiculous, and of course tech tree tanks have it even worse
the game needs a very good and fair HP rebalance. the amount off HP from tier 6 to tier 8 is very big and in my opinion the amount off HP should be no more than 100 or 150 ph. increase per tier
for experienced player +3mm is actually good fun for LTs back before 9.18 still remember in my M5A1 dealing with tier7 tank and still be somewhat viable
Reducing MM by -1 (so +1 by default) without individually looking at each tank would be kinda catastrophical. I mean, you have tanks like TOG II with mm+1. Is TOG a good tank ? No. The only reason it is playable is because of the MM. If all of the tier 6 tanks would also have mm+1 then TOG is pretty much gone. Why play it if you can play M6 or T-34 85M ? Something like this already happened in WOT at low tiers. Tanks like B2 or Valentine II went from very strong to mediocre at best as all of the low tiers got mm +1. Or, some tanks like PZ S35 had mm+2 (very often vs tier 5) & got mm+1 and are now ungodly OP.
Vast majority of premium tanks are T8. It stands to reason there will be many more players selecting T8. Maybe a better option would be for WG to add more T8 premiums like the Super Pershing that has +1 MM. Also, when you get T6 as a T8 there will only be 3 T8 on each team. Sadly MM has no clue how good players so a good T8 played by a good player will decimate the other team more times than not.
WG don’t give a damn about rough parity amongst same tier tanks. It just wants to make money. If it cared at all, there’s a whole back catalog of premium tanks to buff. Can’t recall when I last played my FV4202. That’s basically a tier 7 these days
A few years ago, +/-1 was a thing on WOT console as a test event. It was fun, a much better balance, the games were lasting longer, etc. Heck, even the queue did not suffer and finding a game took the same amount of time as +/-2. Sadly, it never came back.
I remember back before garunteed top tier games were a thing, being stuck in tier six and seeing WG celebrate how their new T8 Premium named "The Defender" was going to be difficult for even Tier 10s firing gold to pen, and thinking wtf was I gonna do to get any exp in the games it was in (which was all of them, because every tier 6 game in those days was against tier 8s, and it was insanely powerful for the time)
Becoming a problem? It has been a problem for years IMO. Stock tier 6s and regular tier 6s in general should NEVER have to play against a bz 176 or grom or skoda t56. its downright stupid. Tho I do agree the game becomes really dull when its same tier games. Its kind of a tricky spot. But I wonder if +- 1 MM would work.
Going from +-2 to 1 would basically just make it so you have smaller advantage when you are top tier, and smaller disadvantage at bottom tier. It would make matches feel a lot more consistent and i could finally play my O-I without getting eaten alive by tier 8 heavies.
@@BlackoutGootraxian yeah that's what I was thinking.
+-1 would work, see tier 9 tanks. Being in a tier 9 with rest tier 10 is a fair fight and a nice challenge.
Yeah
It doesnt happen that much to me in my server/region
And I dont play tier 6 that much anymore.
But I cant fathom the thought that my t-34-85 can meet a BZ-176 or grom
i would argue that when they make broken preimum tank like the BZ and ELC, just make them t8 and above. like a reverse E25... it cant meet T9. so make it the same but in reverse.
You know it’s bad when QB finally acknowledges the +2 problem
I EXPECTED "USED CARS" COMERCIAL AKA KURT RUSSEL MOVIE
The problem is not +2 MM, the problem is WG GREED
Yup yup
If you looked further than the thumbnail, you'll see that QB is not against +/- 2 matchmaking - something he points out nearly every live stream, but its the sheer number of OP tier 8 premium tanks that are ruining the game. And the server stats show why tier 8 premiums are played so much......on EU server the last 30 days, all 60 tanks at tier 8 that have a win rate over 50% are premium. (The only non-premium tanks in the top 83 by win rate are artillery)
@@clivedinosaur8407 Sir, I did watch the video. Yes he is not against +2, but I said he ACKNOWLEDGED that there was a problem. If you looked past the word in the dictionary, you would know what I meant.
+2 matchmaking is also the main reason lower tiers like 5 and 6 are played so little. Tier 5 used to be the most fun back in the day.
Can u imagine hurling around in ur M4A1 An an SU 152 is about to greet you around the corner?
all on purpose so you buy higher tier tanks that you cant afford because free to play economy is unsustainable in higher tiers, thus free to plays are cannon fodder for real money tanks that are op
pay to win game
@@soldier22881pay to play, yeah. pay to win, no.
I love my leo pta, skoda meds...
Tiger 2, JP2, Kilana
T29, Tiger I, A44
M18 Hellcat, SDP 44 Burza, Arl44,...
every tier has gems,
most are viable options
most can be played without losing credits.
But WG is a company, not welfare.
So yeah.... pay to play should be "normal"?
Or are you working for free at your job?
@@soldier22881 They could give +1MM to premium buyers.
This video title is right out of 2019
Or even more fitting, late 2018 when he made the trio of videos talking about the future of World of Tanks and what changes should implemented, along with the fact that in those videos, he predicted the game would go on for another 3 to 5 years
Yet here we are 5 years later
WG was playing around with "-1+1" back in 2016 due to community dissatisfaction with the -2+2.
Time to unfavorite all Quicky's videos where he talks about how great +2/-2 is great.
This is same problem with world of tank consoles and I think it unfair for new players to enjoy playing what tank they like
Literally. This has always been a problem. +2/-2 needs to go
Nowadays it should only be +1 since we already have so many tier 8.5 prems. A tier 7 going against something like the Grom is already such a fking BS. Making something like the Cromwell going against Grom or the BZ is a warcrime.
And to add salt to the injury, Cromwell is one of the best tanks of tier 6... That makes it even more stupid. Because of the inbalance of tier 8 and crazy ammount of players playing that tier (WG can't seem to grasp the problem of stupid numbers of T8 prems compared to other tiers, especialy lower ones) and balancing them mainly against T8+, thus making them effectively a tier 8.5 tanks), tier 6 & 7 is basicaly unplayable nowdays (and those tiers used to be/still should be bread and butter of WoT => the tiers where newbies started dipping their toes into higher tier play). At this point, they should gradually buff all the tanks between tier 5 to 7 to bring the balance between tiers kind of back, and softly overlap the gap + make some incentives to play those tiers (I have my ideas, but that would be for a half a book long read), since they are still unwilling to nerf premiums, whitch is quite understandable at this point... Too many of them to not create massive exodus, they should've seen this problem much sooner...
@@JohnyDohnal they will never buff lower tier tech tree tanks, game is pay to win
it should be +0 all real money tanks need to be nerfed into oblivion but devs will never do that because game is pay to win
Yes true, back in the day f.e. 2 tier 7 meds would win of 1 tier 8 med but me and a platoonmate got washes away by a m48 rpz. Shows the gap between standard tanks and overpowered premiums
@@hdfugdsfgfod yep game is pay to win
Tier 6 and 7 has been a disaster especially for stock grind
tanks should have +-1 mm for the first 10 battles or so.
They should cancel upgrading tanks alltogether, it is not fair to drive a T6 that runs a T5 or 4 gun against T8s. You cant even shoot it out with gold.
Tank should just come as it would be played and be able to switch guns if its a tank that offers options
You are right
I skip all tanks with free exp and begin the tech tree with tier 8 or 9
thats not just the case for Tier 6 and 7.. I just recently played stock 25tp at Tier 5. Was quite fun farming 8100 xp against Tier 7 Tanks, while I cant even penetrate Tier 5 tanks due to my 52 Pen stock gun. Whats the point? I was completely useless to the team.
@ichbinich2734 it ruins the game... For literally everyone
+2 is great when you are on top, or those SUPER rare moments when you can have a hero moment as a bottom tier tank, but overall it sucks, especially as a bottom tier heavy (no armour, cant pen, cant spot, no camo, like what do you do?). +/- 1 MM would be a great alternative
also, QB, why no 2k/4k youtube videos?
Here on NA the +2 is a problem even when you're on top, because the MM will give you a team of muppets, expecting you, the top tier to carry...
-1/+1 MM is something that players and CC's suggested for years, I'm honestly amazed WG didn't do anything about it. The powercreep has made some tanks incredibly powerful as top tiers and there is no other way around that than changing MM. Before the HP buff for low tiers I think that tier III and IV was the most miserable when uptiered, you couldn't really do anything substantial in those battles. Now tier VI is the most problematic in uptiers just like in the video.
@@prinzvonbismarck6821 you should try EU lol, we just have a bigger reservoir of muppets
brother can't even edit his green screen properly, 4k vids should be at the bottom of the wishlist lmao
Im 95% of games a bottom tier, thats why i dont play tier 8, no fun at all
+2mm is garbage. Ask anyone that has been in a tier 6 medium VS T8 heavies. Or a T-7 heavy VS T9 heavies. Its wrong, just wrong.
Panther vs Char Futur 4 ! LOL
I actually don't mind +2mm when I'm bottom tier and I feel rewarded when I do well in them.
all by design so that paying players always win while players that dont pay lose. pay to win
Easy 8 vs Bz-176
No joke, i play tier 10 and 80% of the games are all 10s. I play tier 8 and 60% of the time im bottom tier in a tier 10 game. I kept stats for myself over a period of time and got these numbers
It's actually insane right? Personally I do play tier 8 more often just for credit grinding, so I guess statistically it's more plausible. But still, it's ridiculous how often you get against tier 10s in tier 8.
This happens to me too. Being top tier in a tier 8 is a shock to the system lol. It’s a pleasant surprise to get that, or even a few games with all tier 8’s. +-1 mm would definitely help a lot of folk.
Problem is, I think it’s more than that. Like all these op tanks that come out, that only folk willing to spend a lot, can get. Tanks like the Grom and BZ against tier 6 and most tier 7’s is just stupid.
At the same time, it’s how people play the game. Just cause you are in a tier 6 heavy tank, doesn’t mean you can go head on against a tier 8 heavy (especially these premium tanks). Another problem is the way the game is set up. A lot of tanks need to use gold to compete in these +-2 mm games, and not everyone can afford to do that, it’s set up to force the gold spamming (prob why top tier games are few and far between).
I don’t think WG will change their mm as +-2 forces folk to spam the gold (more cash if they need to get more credits to get that ammo). I have premium but seems when you use that gold and get an ok game, you still lose credits.
So +-2 mm, new premium tanks, having to spam gold with some players unable to afford to do that, constant bottom tier matches, players who think all tanks are equal and play as though they are. All results in bad games. +-1 mm would help, but not sure if they will change it, as they want players to use gold - what best way to do that but to put them in a +-2 game as bottom tier.
The reason isn’t just +-2 mm as I’ve been in games where I am bottom tier but have double the damage of the top tier players.
glad i dont play this pay to win game anymore, this is all your fault guys you enabled greedy devs this is what you get, now sleep in the bed you guys made
It depends on what tank you play. If you are heavy you have high probability to be on top. Can’t say the same about mediums
7:25 the only "variety" lost will be that you don't have to struggle against good +2 players, while your +2 players are licking themselves, and if unicums, the cream on top of the playerbase, are the only people who lose something of value then that is a sacrifice absolutely worth making
My issue with +2MM is that EVERY game in my T28 Proto I am low tier and struggle every game. I feel lucky to get an all Tier VIII game, but even then I am still low tier.
So true, you must always play the top tanks because in +2 even they suffer
Because of the tier 8 power creep even in a same tier game a T28 Proto can feel bottom tier.
Yeah that’s a prem tank problem
They flood t8 so normal tanks get shoved into higher tiers in the mm
All changing the mm does for this problem is put you against more prem t8s
Like the BZ, Skods, and anything Russian WG sold for cash in their auctions
On tier 8 you have like a +3 mm inside the tier itself. BZ, Skoda, etc which are like 3 tiers higher than a t69.
Agree , seems like I always get bottom tiered when or if I play a t7-t9 tank.
And there is a specific " platoon" that mostly take the top 3 spots whenever I go on a losing streak. Hmmm
I wish WoT will see the day when MM is +1/-1 Tier
Doesn't Blitz do that .. one of the variants, pretty sure does.
I miss derping e100s with my KV1 with the 152...T5 vs T10... It got a lot better, but it still needs to improve more.
Variety without having to have one team constantly annihilated by the upper3 man platoon...
never it is pay to win, they will also never remove artillery it ruins the game far more
One of the reasons I gave up playing WoT many years ago was because I got fed up of always (or so it felt) being bottom tier.
Well unless you a gold spamming , power player with a max skill commander, ( xbox) always teamed with your unicom buddies you have a great time Im sure.
I stopped caring about stats, because of the above reason
+2 MM is becoming a problem? "Always was."
Recently spent evening, 6 hours , playing scorpion td at tier 7. Played 43 matches in all. The whole evening, i never saw a tier 5 or 6 tank. 4 matches was all tier 7. 23 matches at tier 8 and 16 at tier 9. its even worse when these matches are quick as you don't have the firepower to influence or halt a char future 4 charging at you. And when you add to this the fact you seem to end up in really "questionable" teams where so called good players play like bots, you feel helpless and just want to uninstall the game.
You end the evening with a less than 30% win rate , where you were only top tier 9.31% of the matches.
all tier 7? in my server thats impossible, tier 7 always play with 8 or 9 or 6 or 5
its my experience as well. To the point where i started counting the proportion of top tier to bottom tier. I'll get often same tier mm, mostly +1, a still a bit of +2. Being top tier was like this rarest of events... It led me to, not uninstall, but spend a year without touching it.
To reduce T8 players, you could also simply increase the credit income in general. I play my T8 premiums almost exclusively to farm credits. I play other tanks for fun
Same here and it's getting harder and harder to earn credits this way anymore.
@@InspirationalCake yeah, if I get tier X match in my T8 prem. I just yolo it, no point playing for 10 minutes and I can’t do jack shit.
@@nimay13this is why i like to play bourrasque because you can go and spot for your team. If you load gold can do decent damage the same time aswell
@@nimay13 some tier8 premiums don't care about tierXs like SkorpionG or Borask
@@InspirationalCake because wg made it recently to earn less credits even with premium account and boosters, yiu dont make as much as before and when i told QB in stream he said is not true but it is, wg made it so credits that u make nowadays are farr less then before
Fact- +2 has always been a problem unless you’re on top or you’re a really good player. If you’re average Joe you’re usually on bottom without the skills to overcome.
Tech tree tier 6 tanks should never face the plethora of tier 8 premiums.
Agree 100%
+2 matchmaking has cost WG more players than we will ever know. Tier 6 tanks should never meet tier 8 and tier 8 should never have to meet tier 10.
omg, your reasoning for +2mm... you play 100 games a day, regular people do 5-10, and we dont get burned out. and you are 6-7 times bottom, 2-3 times same, and max 1 time top out of 10 games. so its just pure frustration.
Yeah this has made me wonder so long, it's basically always like this, every day. If I play tier 8, it's a tier 10 game, if I play tier 9, it's only 9 and 10, if I play tier 10, it's only tier 10...
But to even things out, there must be someone who are 6-7 times top, 2-3 times even tier and 1 time bottom, right? Who are they? The ones who use most money in the WG shop?
Exactly! I stopped playing 2 months ago because of this very reason. I have an hour or two to play after work and it just isn't enjoyable to be bottom tier most of my session. I ended up ignoring 99 percent of my tanks and went to ones with pref MM.
strange that when I play my T8 tanks I get T10 2 out of 3 very rarely get lower tier .
I stopped playing this game years ago because of this stupid MM crap. It's been a problem for along time. Hes now just talking about it wow.
Agree
The most painful thing about +2 is being top tier in a stock tank. If u get matched up against a player with a better tank then u just can't carry the game for your team like you're expected to...
Stock AMX 65t vs BZ-176
@@mosayyeed Not even a fair fight, the stock AMX 65t will win 11/10 times
@@TheEvilscooteryeah))))))
I avoid playing stock completely. Accumulate free-XP for modules and blueprints for tanks so you can field a competitive tank from day one. Having just about everything researched I guess I am speaking from a point of privilege, still I had enough painful stock grinds that I adopted this approach long ago. Carefully decide which lines you want to play and always have a skilled crew, all critical modules, and good equipment.
So fing true.
"CNN reports: CC finally touches base with the playerbase, reverses their entire position" 😂
More like, CNN: "Toxic gamer rages against small games developer over inclusive matchmaking."
CNN only tells half truths after all.
Suggestion, Have + or - one till eight. When at eight have - one / plus two. Nine - one / plus one. Ten - two / their tier
+2MM has been a problem for YEARS.
WG keeps it so that the MM can give bad players a better chance to win when facing tanks 1 or 2 tiers lower. Facing tanks 2 tiers higher also promotes 2 key spam, which WG likes to eat up credits. I only play tier 9 and 10 and these are just some of the reasons why.
Ive been saying this for 8 years. +2/-2 is a problem. It was needed during during the early days of Closed Beta due to the small numbers playing, but once the game was released, it should have all been same tier matchmaking. Facing tanks that you cannot pen is not good game play. That's too late now. Now, the only way to fix MM due to decreased numbers playing is +1/-1.
Its unfair how often you are bottom tier in your lower tier tanks, basically cannon fodder, fix it by ensuring that 30% of battles are same tier and the other 30% top tier and most players would enjoy the game so much more.
I haven't been playing WoT for a long time, but I dread to think if there are more tanks like the infamous BZ-176 that just obliterates any unfortunate ones in T6 tanks that are matched against them... +/- 2 MM has been loudly voiced by players for a LONG time as a big problem.
Its a feature that worked in the past when the model of the game wasn't about making OP tanks
has been like that for years...
For real ! Becoming looool
The +2 to -2 matchmaking only exists to make bad players get a chance at dealing 500 dmg instead of 0 and make the good players not stomp every match basically the worst thing the game has
The problem is 80% bottom tier matches 10% mid tier 10% top tier matchups, makes me wanna quit again mostly plaing mathilda in t6 and kuro in t9
This is correct - they need to change the template if they are going to keep +2MM
The only way to justify keeping +2 matchmaking is to lessen the power difference between tiers. They did this a little when they buffed lower tier tanks, but I wonder if WG has the fortitude to do this for higher tiers. Personally, I believe tier 6 tanks should never meet tier 8 tanks, the power difference is astronomical. WG should get rid of +2 matchmaking for all tiers or more evenly match the power of the tiers.
driving in heavies 2 tiers below the rest of the team is such fun, slow arsed tanks with armour and pen which is useless against tanks 2 tiers above...such fun..oh and the gold spam from 2 tier higher tanks is even MORE fun.... always tier 10 players that say that +/-2 MM is good for the game...
THANK YOU QB for coming back to a regular, casual players view of +/- 2 match making. I have rage quit several times after playing a T6 or T8 and being bottom tier, getting one or two shotted game after game. The Alpha Creep in the upper tiers and, as you mentioned the Pen Creep, has aggravated this to a extreme degree. Playing an E25 in a tier 9 game is a waste of time, all you can do is scout and try to not be spotted. Not to mention T6/7 tanks have a much lower Alpha, there are T8 tanks I would have to pen 5 to 9 times to kill them, while they need just two shots on me. Hard to trade effectively at that rate....
They could modify the matchmaker to ensure that some tanks can't meet lower tiers. They could make it so tier 8.5 tanks like the Skoda T56 can only meet -1/+2. While some tanks like the BZ-176 can only meet +0/+2. Tanks like the 112 or M6A2E1 could have -2/+1 matchmaking.
M6A2E1 already has exactly that. That gun on it is suboptimal by todays standarts and that 240mm armor is not so sturdy anymore
@@martin913913 I agree, the tanks with preferential matchmaking are outdated compared to their newer same-tier counterparts.
The problem is that you can't just buff tier 8 tanks, because all you're doing is widening the gap between tier 7 and tier 8.
The only real solution is to nerf the overpowered tier 8.5 tanks, but Wargaming is afraid of lawsuits if they do that.
I have a 112 premium that I purchased years ago because it never see's tier 10 but it has been power creeped and has only 190 mm pen it would struggle against tier 6 now days.
@@albazar 190 mm pen is okay on a relatively fast firing and accurate medium tank like the T-44 or Type 59.
The 112 for example has 0.42 dispersion, a 12 second reload and only a mediocre 1900 DPM.
It's the combination of multiple bad statistics that ends up really killing the tank.
yes but that would cause an outrage becuase "muh premium I paid money to decimate tier 6s"
The matchmaking has been a problem for a decade, not just now...
My biggest problem with the game is the small size of the maps. With small maps. We need maps Where all types of tanks can shine. No matter if you are a paper armor tanks or a assault tanks with no spotting range but heavy armor.
Thats why i like frontline sooo much, only tier 8 and small and medium tanks are very usefull. To def a heavy is ok.
Tanks used to be a whole lot slower and viewranges used to be a lot less as well. That is what the maps are designed for.
The soviet t54 used to be to fast for the server to render lol. Now it isn't concidered fast at all anymore.
@@rogerk6180 I think you're thinking of the old T-50.
@@StarkRaven59 ahh yeah maybe.. long time ago lol.
The game used to have maps with more usable space and variation, even in the "lanes". Next to none of those maps made it into 1.0 for... reasons.
WG is not going to change it. Why? Because people still buy their overpriced virtual premium pixels.
How is that a problem? They could sell tier VII glass cannons (good gun vs tier VIII) and tier IX premiums.
2:30 the problem is that I mainly play T8 in a 3 player platoon which basically means Im low tier all day long
The problem with +2 comes when you are constantly bottom tier and that gets old quickly. If WG added something where you can be bottom tier 2 games then the next 2 you are either top or even tier.
bottom teir should get free resupplys, gold ammo free and free repairs. then +2-2 should stay otherwise nope.
@@yoyoyo-r3m I'd be ok with being bottom tier if the cost of the match was removed for bottom tier tanks..... would still be "challenging" but not financially frustrating.
@@BullDogBreed75 exactly!
Kind of a text dump, but I don’t really care:
This the the main reason I no longer play console or the blitz version (never stuck with the PC version) and moved on to War Thunder. Tier 6-10 become the hole where all premium vehicles are, meaning that anybody that plays a premium end up in those tiers.
When you make a tier 8 that can fight tier 10’s and you also make it so that the tier 8 can put up a fight against a tier 10, then it will just annihilate tier 6’s, much like the Grom you played in this video.
This game holds a special place in my heart for what it once was, and while there have been a lot of improvements over time, there have been just as many terrible updates and implementations.
I think there’s just way too many stats in World of Tanks that are used to balance vehicles. As well as War Gaming’s “never nerf a premium” policy. While it’s grounded in good intentions, it just does not hold up anymore.
In War Thunder, most vehicles never have any features removed or added, buffed or nerfed after their introduction. For a vehicle to be changed there has to be a (real) document proving the changes requested exist in real life - hence the occasional classified document leaks that War Thunder produces as a byproduct of this. What War Thunder does do, however, is change the so called “Battle Rating”, equivalent to tiers in World of Tanks, whenever and however they want. That way, a ridiculously strong vehicle at, say 9.0, can be moved to 10.0. It would be nice if World of Tanks had something similar where tanks, depending on their performance, could be moved up or down in tiers.
Not saying War Thunder is perfect, because it is not, but it would be nice if these two “competitors” would actually acknowledge some of the other’s good implementations and implement them themselves.
BECOMING a problem. It has been an unenjoyable experience for me for a long, long time.
They should get rid of that
You are absolutely right. Playing tier 6 and tier 7 reminds me of the very beginning of WoT when I played M3Lee against KV2 or PzIV against KV5. That's why today we have players who skip grinding all the tanks and play high ranks with little knowledge and experience, thus ruining the game.
adding tier11 is probably the worst idea tbh as it just adds more to the original problem, 1mm is the best way to handle the situation and im surprised it hasnt been implemented already, it fixes loads of balancing issues and makes the game a lot more enjoyable on a game to game basis, especially for casual players who just want to hop on and shoot some shells, not having to sweat in their T34-85 against a Bz 176 or a grom
If they added t11 they should make it play only against other t11 or t10. Ye its painfull to play against bz-176 on t6 but if you play something else than heavy you can avoid them most of the time
Just adding tier 11 means nothing. What is gonna be in tier 11? even IF the re-distributed certain tiers to be spaced over 2 tiers... then just adding tier 11 would solve nothing.
Just add make a hard cut between tier 7 and 8 so they will never meet. Literally the entire problem fixed.
+2/-2 is bad for all 30 players in it
YOU FINALLY NOTICED???????? WTF TOOK YOU THIS LONG??????????????????????????????????
Yeah being the lower end in the match maker sucks on +2games . But i find it even worst that the teams are most of the times uneven in skills. Either u crush the enemys or u get overrun.
+2MM is a crime for the average player. As a super unique you probably look at this differently, but with a tech.tree tier tank 6 against a Grom all fate is lost to you in advance. Long live variety!
MM should be based on modules installed. That way WG can keep current prem tanks more balanced while bringing back old preiums with preferential mm. The best of both worlds. For instance: Make BZ to be placed very often vs tier 9 or 10 (no nerf to the tank). But, if you install weaker turret and weaker gun, you can have for example mm+1. Or take Super Pershing for example. Make it possible to mount way better gun and you have normal mm. B2 that has +0 mm ? Same thing. Mount better gun or turret and you have +1 etc. WG can still balance this game without nerfing premiums. And of course - this would affect tech tree tanks as well. It would be hard & much work to do as each tank would have to be looked at individually, but it is possible.
"Bring back old premiums with special mm" dude they're selling those ALL THE TIME
@@derrickstorm6976 I know... I just think that it is a shame that WG did not went with that route when they are monetizing the game. Those older tanks with preferential mm were much less destructive for the game balance cuz for the most part they are weaker than tech tree ones. All you are really paying here is better match-up. So I do think that if players can "chose" to install worse gun or engine or turret in exchange for +0 or +1 mm it would be overall better for the game. You could "play safe" and play a tank with worse stats or pick top modules , but risking being bottom tier.
Problem is that this require lots of work... to get a less frustrating game... but no money from the player base...
+2 has always been ass. the bottom tiers rarely have a chance to do anything positive unless theyre played by unicums. if decent to amazing players populate the key top tier tanks on one team the other team nearly always gets steamrolled. +1 is fine, it gives variety while still allowing for everybody on each team to have a decent chance. this will never happen though, the difference in armor in +2 accounts for the majority of 2 key spam in the game, which of course benefits WGs bottom line.
im a decent player, not a pro. i play tanks with the highest standard pen so i dont have to "pay" to affect a match, cuz f that mechanic. me sitting in a 270 ish pen TD as a top tier 9 against 7s, is friggen stupid and not fun for those 7s.
Bring back the old MM, from pre-2017. I did a stat study on this. Players were top tier much more and the +2/-2MM wasn't as brutal. The current MM forces more lower tier battles, and frustration. The article was on the old WoTLabs website, which appears to be gone now. 😕
+1/-1 would be the logical and smart move that most players would see as fair. ⚖
ASIA has been +/-1 for 6 years 😂
It would be great if the matchmaker could take into account player stats/rating and make it so that less skillful players would more likely get into same tier matches, average players would be more likely to get +1 tier matches and good players would more likely get into +2 tier matches. This way those who just like to play casually would be met with other casual players and those sweaty ones would more likely meet other sweaty players. Although this would only solve tier 8 and below battles and maybe tier 9 battles...
+2 has always been awful (especially tier 3 vs tier 5 back then when a tank can’t even physically damage another), but power creep is so bad, even in a tier 8 with tier 6 game, if I’m driving a patriot and the enemy team has a BZ176, then it gets harder and harder to treat that tank as a challenge/raid boss and it gets easier and easier to just give up
Also 4:23 before the HE nerf that kv2 had a proper chance, it was the tank version of an equalizer that can even go against a high tier and do damage. Look at it now
11:17 frontline helps pushing tier 8 out of the MM, although you’re still getting depressed from having to fight EBRs, Progettos, and BZs
Console WoT is even worse. Now there’s some tier IX tanks that are so broken they’re dominating tier X. Even if the tier VIII is only +1 they have zero chance
Nightstalker OP
@ yeah the nightstalker ruins high tier
Being an artillery is less of a simple game style than playing these tanks
Yup. Tier 8 prems are the new clickers. Push w and click. Ruining the game.
Go, play op arty on 5-6 tier or 9-10
Я до сих пор помню как на t-29 попал против grille и lefh арты и они меня деражи на катке и убиваои без шансов двинуться.
The best tiem for premiums will always be when they were better than stock tanks, but worse than upraded ones... was a great template but they f***ed it up
That concept took a nose dive when they came up with a prem that had no true tech tree counterpart and thus they went berserk. And now they bring out the prem first, which can be alsobutely bonkers and then the tech tree comes after.. (BZ-line) and then you're stuck with the BS.
Then with Grom, you'd think they'd learn since Grom came after.. but its just a tier 10 on tier 8...
I can't for the life of me understand how WG can keep on swinging to miss EVERYTHING.
I think limiting the tanks capabilities and balancing around +1 -1 MM and using this on these premiums will definitely help and also aid some more gameplay in tiers 9 and 7
All vehicles that rely on armor to be effective (usually heavies but not always) should have pref mm because these tanks suffer most as bottom tier when the armor is useless and they dont have mobility to fall back on. Vehicles that rely on mobility are ok with +/-2 because they can flank, repostion and otherwise use that mobility still. In any case I think whenever a vehicle is bottom tier, at the end of the battle ammo resupply should be free, including gold ammo, because as a bottom tier you usually must fire a lot of gold if you want to get any damage done.
Excellent idea.
And remove gold rounds ! They f*cking nullify an otherwise decent armored tank where thats supposedly its strength.
seriously, the fact that WG doesn't understand armor... everything is either "no armor" or its absolute dogshite impurvious.
this would be good bottom Teirs should get discounted or free repairs also. because i love seeing a bz-176 in my T6 its just dumb.
they will never make those changes because game is pay to win, they want to keep over powered real money tanks
@@soldier22881 How would overpowered real money tanks disappear if these changes were made?
the only issue i have with +2mm is the fact that if im lucky 8/10 matches im bottom tier !!! and when im not on bottom its an even tier match ...NEVER top tier
What about 80% of games is finished 15-5 and in first 3-4 min after games starts is 5k HP difference?
I dont play this game for around 10 years but i keep an eye from time to time thanks to QB and see whats new. The only reason i dont play is matchmaking. I simply refuse to play +2. Until equal or +1 mm comes into the game im ready to give my money.
Big thanks to point out WOT's one of major problem.
They seems like, they just gave up to bring new players at the moment.
On the Asia server I used to be an average player wr was approaching 50% but suddenly about a month or two ago it’s down to 30% . Keeps meeting tanks I can’t pen even with gold, the entire team decides to camp in the back in positions that can’t hit anything even if I spot, or entire team goes to one side and get shot to bits in 15- 1 matches. I’m f2p and rarely plays anything higher than t7
QB needs to see how console is failing, adding more fake tanks that ruin the game, really kills the fun that was there.
if there was an indicator popup "you will be bottom tier next game, please choose your tank wisely for the next game" when you were attempting to join another match this would give people an idea of what tier/tank/type of tank they want to play. They'd be more thankful for the reminder.
Don't agree, plus two mm makes gold rounds a necessity. It also makes games go very quick because of unequal tanks facing each other. I guess both things benefit wg though. Not the players.
There is no situation where I've been in low tier within a +1 mm game, that I ever thought "boy, I wish this was +2 mm instead."
What? QB saying +2 might be a problem?? What's next, he's not recommending vents anymore?
I would be careful what you wish for. When they wanted more tier 7s in the Blitz matchmaker they just released a bunch of wildly overpowered premiums lol
I am going 268/4 and i am right now at tier 7 and 7/10 games i am matched agaisnt tier 9 same with burza
I believe there could be a simple solution: keep the +2 mm with a conditional: tier 6 or 7 do not match up against a premium 8 or premium 9; ie premium 8 and premium 9 are restricted to tier 8 and above for match making
sure the grom, not the bz176, not the bourat, not progetto, defender and all the broken nonsense before. its the grom
It really hasn't been that much of a problem over the last few years. The problem is coming from the fact that they keep adding new tanks with different stats some overpowered some not.
Meanwhile, the mid-tier is like tier 6 and tier 7. Barely have gotten that many changes at all to keep up with all of the tier 8s and new tier 9 premiums being added
+2 was a problem years ago. Way before grom or bz-176 or skoda t56 or obj 703. It was a problem when the british tanks were added in the game, because i remember cursing meeting a is3 in the cromwells and comets, when nobody was shooting gold. Yea there is literaly nothing you can do to is 3 while its facing you if you sit in a tier 6 or 7 medium with no gold. As powerful as bz-176 is it is nothing but a free xp and credits for type 5 heavy, the worst tier 10 heavy. The reason why tier 9 is so comfortable is because you only have +1 and you still get to farm all the -2 games.
bz176 destroys tier 10s its that over powered what are you on?
WG does not care - they are already preparing the next line that can do 800+ damals in one shot (well, actually it's a double shot). It has become so frustrating that I decided to move on to another game.
i don't think ±2 should be completely removed. however it should me minimized as in if the matchmaker cannot create a game in 3 minutes (aka you're sitting and waiting 3min at the loading screen) then it makes a ±2 game. then I'd be fine with it. its the issue that its so common and you're against really strong tanks like Grom, BZ-176, Skoda T56, Bourrasque, Prog, Vipera and many more where you either get one shot or clipped out quickly, have absolutely no chance of fighting back (BZ-176 or Vipera or Defender) so you're forced to load gold but you still get annihilated in mere moments
I don't want tier VIII to be buffed or tier X to be nerfed.
The problem is also the unfair mm, one team full of good players even with purple wtr against low and mid players. Quess who wins? Its unfair at the least. 😊
Давно брали интервью.
Это специально сделано для эмоциональных качель. По сути как игра в казино или автоматы где от тебя зависит лишь нажатие кнопки.
With tier 10 and 9 excluded; it doesn't really seem to matter what tier I play - I'm usually 2 tiers down. It's rare that I"m ever top tier in a two tier spread. I get the occasional all tier 8 game, but for the most part; I'm bottom tier no matter what I play.
QB... You keep surprising me over and over again... Slowly, you're realizing what we've known for six years now, but you’re only beginning to feel it! Let me note: it’s already too late. It can’t be fixed anymore. That would require many players, but with each passing day, there are fewer and fewer. By now, it’s impossible to repair this game. WG only cares about the money, and you were blind and ignored us. You said to us, "Skill Issue!" But now that the game is getting worse and worse, you’re the ones crying. You deserve it! You deserve it a thousand times over! And QB... ... Even half of your suggestions for improvement are nonsense and foolishness.
...and yes, I’m angry at you and all the other content creators because you only grew a backbone to stand up against this too late. You are an integral part of why the game has gotten this bad and deteriorated to this point!
One other issue QBaby did not mentioned at all is, that the horrendous amount of battles where you are low tier at T6 and T7 puts loads of pressure to these players to advance as fast as possible to the higher tiers. Even though they dont have the skill yet. As result the skill spread at high tier battles is increasing, making results even more random.
Potential viable option would be to increase xp, credit rewards substantial when a low tier tank, damages, kills a higher tier tank, with rewards highest against +2 Tanks of course. Opposite similar, a T8 does get only a tiny reward in XP, Credits when dmg/killing a T6.
I'd go for a -1/+2 MM, So premiums only meet 1 tier below, 2 tier higher
Premiums should fight only amogst other premiums. Honestly.. get them out of the tech tree rotation alltogether.
For me, I think WoT changed when everything got faster and more accurate.
(I'll preface this with I have been playing since the Beta >10 years ago) There was a time when class (light, med, heavy) meant something and you could count the amount of vehicles that could hit a reasonably sized cupola at range (4/10 times in a row) on one hand. The only thing lights could pen from the front were other lights and the lightest of meds at close range, but, heavies couldn't track you at close range/keep up with you unless they used their brains and positioned. There was a time when WoT was slower and planning on a team lv meant more (if you were an IS-2, you were meant to be the wall of one side of the map. You were very slow, slow to reload, and couldn't hit shit unless they were less than 200m away, but if you did they knew it. And you were a wall, even to most tier 7s and some tier 8s. It took teamwork to pull out an entrenched heavy, but the tradeoff was that they were inflexible.).
I could go on for ages but I think you get the idea.
I think the other big change was the HE mechanic change. Sure your KV-2 reloaded slower than a snails pace but it didn't matter if you were fighting tier 8s or tier 5s, you had the 152mm gun and you slapped stuff with HE. However they've now reworked the HE mechanic and thus what was a tank that even tier 8s didn't really want to roll infront of (since even if the HE didn't pen it would still slap you for 400 damage and knock out some modules) became something they could just ignore as much as any other tier 6.
This was the tradeoff for taking the derp guns on tanks, you were always going to do damage but you were not likely to pen. Now Derp guns are basicaly pointless.
Faster, more alpha, a lot more autoloaders, more pen, more viewrange, much better equipment.
All on maps that where designed for how tanks used to be in 2015.
@@rogerk6180 I think the biggest hit to light tanks (and the reason they almost always have to be 50/50 damage dealers) is that most meds and a lot of other tanks can easily max out view range. In maps as "small" as these, most light tanks have very small avenues of movement and the increased accuracy means they are almost always punished heavily for any mistakes.
@@m.d.598 yeah. There are more things that add to this. The fact that repair kits and medkits are now renewable. When was the last time you saw anyone with a damaged engine or gun? Or people having to play more cautious because they already burned their repair kit.
2 loadouts to choose from at every battle makes balanced loadouts a thing of the past because everyone has a perfect maximised loadout now for every battle. Even faster on big maps, even mkre stealthy on bushy maps etc.
All this stuff seems like a positive development as a player, but in reality it isn't. It is just even more powercreep and makes strong tanks even stronger. And it heavilly favors better or more dedicated over casual players. Making quality of life for casual players increasingly misserable..
as someone who does not use premium ammo, I can say that +2mm at tier 8 does not bother me that much as +2mm on tier 6, as jump in stats between tier 6 and 8 is much bigger then 8 to 10... for example penetration:
tier 6 140mm, tier 8 225mm, thats increase about 60%...
tier 8 225mm to 270, increase about 20%...
etc...
I appreciate you making a video about this. As a newer, albeit not entirely new player, there is nothing more frustrating than bringing my brand new tier 6 stock tank and getting paired into a tier 8 where I literally am unable to penetrate at all. It seems to me that tanks seem to be designed to be +1/-1. Tier 6 tanks are not designed to fight tanks that are designed to fight tier 10s. I think a +1/-1 would make the game way more approachable and beginner friendly
+1 is enough, and with premium you should be able to put even this off! A tier 8 is absolutly no match for a tier 10 , its just stupid 😖😒
Today while playing my Tier 8s, I basically had no match without a 60TP in it... What does a Tornvagn meant to do against a 60TP? It is ridiculous, and of course tech tree tanks have it even worse
the game needs a very good and fair HP rebalance. the amount off HP from tier 6 to tier 8 is very big and in my opinion the amount off HP should be no more than 100 or 150 ph. increase per tier
for experienced player +3mm is actually good fun for LTs back before 9.18
still remember in my M5A1 dealing with tier7 tank and still be somewhat viable
or clapping the shit out of some is-3 in my chaffee... aaah good old memries...
Reducing MM by -1 (so +1 by default) without individually looking at each tank would be kinda catastrophical. I mean, you have tanks like TOG II with mm+1. Is TOG a good tank ? No. The only reason it is playable is because of the MM. If all of the tier 6 tanks would also have mm+1 then TOG is pretty much gone. Why play it if you can play M6 or T-34 85M ? Something like this already happened in WOT at low tiers. Tanks like B2 or Valentine II went from very strong to mediocre at best as all of the low tiers got mm +1. Or, some tanks like PZ S35 had mm+2 (very often vs tier 5) & got mm+1 and are now ungodly OP.
Vast majority of premium tanks are T8. It stands to reason there will be many more players selecting T8. Maybe a better option would be for WG to add more T8 premiums like the Super Pershing that has +1 MM.
Also, when you get T6 as a T8 there will only be 3 T8 on each team. Sadly MM has no clue how good players so a good T8 played by a good player will decimate the other team more times than not.
While their at it they should also get rid of arty
WG don’t give a damn about rough parity amongst same tier tanks. It just wants to make money. If it cared at all, there’s a whole back catalog of premium tanks to buff. Can’t recall when I last played my FV4202. That’s basically a tier 7 these days
100% Same tier is sooooo rare QB, not fun going t8 against 4-6 t10s😢
A few years ago, +/-1 was a thing on WOT console as a test event. It was fun, a much better balance, the games were lasting longer, etc. Heck, even the queue did not suffer and finding a game took the same amount of time as +/-2. Sadly, it never came back.
Platoon of groms can be aggressive and roll over everything even in tier 10 matches.
I apologize to all the tier 6s i damage or destroy in my Grom, it shouldn't find tiers that low
i apologize to you when you meet me in my tier 10😂
I remember back before garunteed top tier games were a thing, being stuck in tier six and seeing WG celebrate how their new T8 Premium named "The Defender" was going to be difficult for even Tier 10s firing gold to pen, and thinking wtf was I gonna do to get any exp in the games it was in (which was all of them, because every tier 6 game in those days was against tier 8s, and it was insanely powerful for the time)