Are collagen supplements effective and worth taking? | Peter Attia and Luc van Loon
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- Опубликовано: 27 апр 2024
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This clip is from episode 299 ‒ Protein: muscle protein synthesis optimization, quality sources, quantity needs, and the importance of resistance training with Luc van Loon, Ph.D. Luc is an internationally renowned expert in skeletal muscle metabolism.
In this clip, they discuss:
- Is there a unique benefit to consuming collagen as a supplement?
- Does the average person get enough collagen in their diet?
- Using collagen supplements to help with ligament and tendon issues
- And more
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About:
The Peter Attia Drive is a deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing longevity, and all that goes into that from physical to cognitive to emotional health. With over 90 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including exercise, nutritional biochemistry, cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more.
Peter Attia is the founder of Early Medical, a medical practice that applies the principles of Medicine 3.0 to patients with the goal of lengthening their lifespan and simultaneously improving their healthspan.
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It feels like this discussion missed the point of why people are interested / asking about collagen supplementation specifically. It's not about muscle (lol), it's primarily about skin elasticity. Secondarily, sure, joints and cartilage. Focusing the collagen discussion on muscle looks like an instance of unrecognized attention bias...
I agree. Most other discussions on collagen are rarely about muscle. It doesn't appear to be the typical concern for most people, at least when thinking about collagen. I work out and yet I think collagen is irrelevant for my own muscle building. I'm more focused on using collagen for joint health. There is a lot of info about this aspect. But these kinds of Youtbue channels tend to be inordinately obsessed about muscles.
This and also metabolism by eating less BCAA’s at least in some meals. I have fruit and coffee with collagen in the morning
I take it as a lifter and endurance athlete for my tendons & ligaments .. and I do believe it works because when I go off it , I can feel a difference
They are legit papers out, pointing to the efficacy on the skin brightness and elasticity. It’s a rather settled question
My experience as a 55 yr old female is that using powdered bovine and marine collagen on a daily basis has a profound positive impact on my joints, mainly hip, knee, and shoulder where I’ve had issues. Also will mention noticeable improvement in my hair, skin, and nails. Have taken consistently for 8 months.
Note that I don’t count this added collagen as a protein source in tracking and prioritizing my protein intake.
Can u please share the type and brand u use. I am also entering my 55th year and hoping the post menopause years could b better with less aches and pains in joints.
Came here to say this. totally agree.
What supplements do you take?
@@carole3995 Live Conscious
Collagen Peptides, Unflavored, 16 oz
California Gold Nutrition
CollagenUP, Hydrolyzed Marine Collagen Peptides with Hyaluronic Acid and Vitamin C, Unflavored, 16.37 oz
I get from iherb
@@mcsus7823 Live Conscious
Collagen Peptides, Unflavored, 16 oz
California Gold Nutrition
CollagenUP, Hydrolyzed Marine Collagen Peptides with Hyaluronic Acid and Vitamin C, Unflavored, 16.37 oz
I get from iherb
As a 60 year old male, I have found that adding collagen to a whey isolate does improve my connective tissue repair.
@@Mansell5Senna8 I had a bad Meniscus tear on my right knee 3 years ago. I refused surgery and started 10g per day collagen peptides. Slow progress over a year and a half, though today it has fully healed. I get that correlation does not imply causation however, still being able to perform 5x5 conventional dead lifts at twice my body weight once a week without any joint issues, is enough evidence for me. It may work for you also.
77 yr old female here taking collagen after bilat hip and knee replacement and broken ankle too...my bone density and hair and nail strength has increased... Make your own tests and decide.. works for me, and, hopefully for others....
Kinda missing the hair, skin and joint cartilage benefits by only focusing on collagen as a supplement for muscle building.
"Kinda missing the hair" HA got 'em
Yaa exactly
They Should review it from every dimension
Dr. Attia's wife's friends are asking about collagen for skin and anti-aging benefits most probably. I have seen multiple videos done by dermatologists and plastic surgeons talking about research showing skin benefits. So that's why I take collagen supplements and do notice a benefit. I do also notice a benefit for my joints. I would love to see more information on research for collagen and joint health.
I second that
I was diagnosed with arthritis in my hands a couple of years ago. It wasn’t deemed serious at the time, but, since I work with my hands I wanted to be proactive. I’ve tried a few different things like turmeric, glucosamine etc. then I found a collagen supplement with added protein in a powder form. I started adding it to my protein shakes and it has worked better than anything else I’ve tried.
What are the best collagen brands, products, etc.? Thank you so much in advance!
@@TAK-1127
What are the best collagen brands, products, etc.? Thank you so much in advance!
@@TAK-1127
Which one do you use? Thank you!
Anecdotally, I can tell you it does wonders for my nails. It's the only thing that makes my nails grow strong and thick.
Which one did you take?
Nah vitamin D alone will do that for you.
@@gagankaur937 It's Sparkle brand. I just get the one with no flavoring and add it to drinks. It has vitamin C with it, which is supposed to help with absorption.
Maybe for you, if you have vitamin D defficiency , otherwise no@@Robsamuel
Thank you guys, appreciate how clearly you both communicate. More of you two in future please!
Biggest value of collagen is the glycine content which helps balance sulfur based inflammatory aminoacids responsible for growth found in muscle meat. If you are an omnivore and eat nose to tail you get plenty of gelatin & collagen, if you eat lean muscle meats only, some supplemental collagen can help
There are specific dipeptides and tripeptides in collagen which are absorbed intact and have specific biologic effects, therefore it's not just source of glycine.
Well I have been taking collagen for about two months and my knee pain from a fall two years ago is almost completely gone!!! I think the connective tissue in my knee is quite improved. IMO it is a good addition to my health!!!
Really was hoping to hear about the benefits with regard to skin elasticity and anti ageing benefits. Did not really get my answer here. I don’t drink my collagen supplement for the sake of muscle building. I have whey protein for that.
There are a lot of articles coming out about the importance of boron for bone and joint health, particularly in the prevention and treatment of arthritis. It would be good to hear Peter Attia's views on this.
He hit the nail on the head with his final statement.
Broke my fibula and needed surgery…..was already in good shape with exercise and nutrition going into the injury, then I upped the nutrition to include adding grass fed bone broth daily (21 grams) mixed with 11 grams of my normal chocolate whey….sometimes twice a day. I was walking in the boot 3 weeks post surgery and resumed biking. At 5 weeks I was out of the boot at home and by week 6 was totally out of the boot and starting to run/walk. Now beginning week 10, I’m running 15 miles per week easy plus continuing the work on the bike….and I am pushing 50. Docs originally said I should t even think about running until week 12. Did mainlining the collagen help in the healing process? Don’t know….but put my experience into the positive results column for collagen. Can’t wait to get more science on this…..
My experience with things like collagen and glucosamine are that it takes several months to notice any effect and that consistency over years is key.
Thank you, Dear Dr Peter Attia. You always pick up the right subject to explain.
Most appreciated &
Thanks to your wife’s friends asking the correct questions.
Hope they keep on asking👏
Thanks to other Scientists who said need more investigations into this question but in the meanwhile shall we get a good quality of collagen or
shall I take the risk of blocking my arteries if I can't find the best company selling collagen
Thank you👵💊👱♀️
Happy that we have a Scientist like Dr Peter Attia.
God Bless🙏
Just to clarify.... are you saying collagen protein supplements block arteries?
Thank you for the info!
According to the discussion I will exclude my protein intake from collagene peptides from my daily protein and protein/meal (for leucine effect) goal.
Probably not a game changer but rather more considered.
I had a shoulder so painful I thought I had a serious injury. I started taking hyaluronic acid supplement and in a couple weeks I could nice my shoulder almost completely normally and there was almost no pain. I switched to a collagen supplement and it's still good. It does something and I'm not giving it up.
If you look at the research by Keith Barr he has shown that taking collagen with vitamin C 30 minutes before a 5 minute session of skip rope significant increases tendon thickness.
The thickening of tendon is dependant on bloodflow into the connective tissue. So taking collagen prior to exercise will allow for the peptide to be in the bloodstream and the exercise increases blood flow to the area it is needed. Then vitamin C aids in converting type 1 or 2 collagen into one another as required. Vitamin C is a known requirement for collagen synthesis.
Thank you.
Thanks comments!!!❤❤
I take it for my joints, I’m 54 and anything that helps even a little I’m taking it. I recently had knee surgery and started taking collagen for the last 3 months and I’ve definitely seen improvement but I’m also exercising.
I use collagen for conective tissue
I believe the purpose of the collagen supplements is for hair, skin and nails as well as benefit for joints…
Yeah, if you're a vain chick. Some of us take it for connective tissue.
Is it possible to count the Collagen protein if one adds things such as hemp hearts or pumpkin seeds to complete the protein in a smoothie for example? The Cronometer app seems to indicate so but i might be completely missing the point. I do consume plenty of animal proteins on a daily basis but am hoping to increase my daily protein intake in terms of 'grams' with a modified collagen smoothie as described above.
i’ve been taking marine collagen for several and experienced many benefits. I’m less stiff in that my hips, ankles and joints feel less stiff. Surprisingly, my hair, nails and skin look amazing. My hairdresser, anestitician, pilates instructor, and husband have all independently commented how much thicker my hair looks and that my skin looks radiant. A couple of people asked if I was using botox, which I don’t. I had to demonstrate facial movements to one friend before she would believe that I wasn’t using botox😅.
not a good way to characterize the impact of collagen and its ability to improve connective tissue response or for that matter the impact on myofibular response. The better question is to ask is whether distinct collagen peptides (often referred to as bio functional collagen peptide) effective at improving connective tissue/myofibular response. Data shows that the molecular wt measured in daltons impacts the bioactive response of various connective tissues and is characterize via the dalton wt.. Working more as a signaling molecule similar to a DAMP, not via mTORC,
In simple terms it makes sense that your body is what you feed it. So if I feed it connective tissue, it makes sense that would help in rebuilding my own connective tissues. Ancient people knew this, that is why they would make use of the whole animal, not just the muscles flesh like we do today.
I’m kind of surprised nothing was mentioned about isotope marker collagen where the peptides dies indeed end up in connective tissue to a larger extent than other protein sources. I believe these were measured over a longer time period also.
Exactly. You'd think Attia's pro research team could take a minute to do a quick literature search on the topic 🤔
Any sources for this? Sounds interesting.
Yep. That's it. Pretty much settled the argument for me.
I don’t think they are a negative, so yes. I take some along with glycine and NAC
You have to include vitamin c in any connective tissue synthesis experiment....
I can't believe neither of the these guys understand that collagen is not just a source of glycine and proline. Multiple studies have shown that di- and tri-peptides from collagen are absorbed intact and have unique biologic effects.
This should be the top comment
The Man literally studies this in the lab I think he knows that and just taking collagen does not increase collagen. Collagen supplements are a waste of money, just take a protein powder.
Which one do you take?
I take Dr. Gundry's plant collagen powder. It's sickeningly sweet so I put it in 14 oz of 100% cranberry juice, apple cider vinegar, fresh lemon juice and water and then I continue to add water during the day. I also take BioTique and MitoPure... both formulated by people whose stories I know and have followed for years before they were involved with products. Also Dr. Mark Hyman's beta blood testing program Function. All worth looking into.
source?
Collagen has definitely helped my elbow, more than other joint supps
Im pretty sure Collagen peptide makes my skin way better
When l take collagen the ganglion cyst on my food went away. I stopped the collagen it came back, so l have all the evidence l need to know it’s worth it. Not to mention the boost of protein in my morning cup of coffee.
I've been using isolate, casein and collagen together after workouts as of late. I have a ganglion cyst on my shoulder. I'll keep an eye on that to see what happens. If you're right that would be great.
I had a ganglion cyst on my wrist right above the artery. It really freaked me out, then my son ran up and randomly bit my in that spot. It hasn't returned since lol. You can also try lumbrokinase and serrapeptase, I had a buddy who used that combo for several months and it just disappeared.
My tendons and ligaments dont snap and crack when I use it. If I stop, within days Im snapping and cracking. I go back on, it goes away. So, I'm going to say it helps.
@kimammons4014 How much do you take per day?
Cardiology exam room had a poster w/ habits for heart health. We all know no smoking, healthy diet, healthy fats, exercise but the last was whey protein isolate which i'd never heard associated with cardiovascular health
The poster suggesting adding whey isolate or avoiding it?
Most people in my world take collagen addition to whey. They take collagen primarily for skin health
Luc's an OG for this one alone.
Engaging in exercise can prompt muscle synthesis and fortify connective tissues, similar to recovery from minor damage. Supplements may be beneficial in this process. I personally use a grass-fed supplement and maintain an active lifestyle.
I’ve been taking Collagen powder for over 10 years. I get mistaken for 15-20 years younger than I am. Benefits skin, nails and joints. I am a personal trainer who has been weight training for over 14 years and haven’t had any injuries during the time. I do also make sure I consume an adequate amount of animal source protein.
I've heard absorption is increased when consuming vitamin C before the collagen.
Not really absorption, but vitamin C is required for collagen synthesis (that's the basis fir scurvy) so not a bad idea to take them together.
Performance nutritionist I follow says there is promising research out there to show it has a benefit on tendons, ligaments, but its a supplement that works after a longer period, rather then the instant bang you get from protein and creatine. I take it for joint, injury prevention.
Not true. When I take it I get a lot of compliments on my skin. I noticed the improvements myself too. One time I cut the tip of my finger on a mandolin slicer. I'm a massage therapist and was terrified It would take my finger fore er to heal. I went to the vitamin store and the person suggested collagen, it healed very quickly, I can't even tell I cut my finger. And for many years I was have a terrible reaction to the sun. I couldn't even stick my arm out the window with our getting badly burnt. Since I started incorporating collagen I have not been getting sunburns and I can go for beach walks with no problem and stick my arm out the window
I added « flavourless » enhanced bovine collagen protein to my breakfast for 2 years and hated how it changed the taste wether mixed with coffee, oatmeal or a smoothie. Couldn’t say I saw much improvement while taking it - I’m 60 - then I forgot to bring it on a 2 week vacation. Food tastes so much better without it. Not so « flavourless » so not sure lol ever go back.
I take a collagen, hyaluronic acid and vitamin C powder for skin ,hair, nails. I also take a protein powder for added protein
I thought collagen was for knee and joints, mainly..? What's all of this muscle and workout talk. 6:20 "Muscle doesn't contain a lot of collagen". Seems like the point was completely missed here. I don't think a single person alive is using collagen protein as their main or sole source for strength protein... If someone is doing this, they probably don't have internet, and will never even see this video to realize they are doing it wrong.
One thing i keep chewing on is what does "balanced" protein mean? non of these sources of equal amounts of each amino acid. I think what most scientist are meaning to say is "this source has a protein profile most similar to muscles", but that only makes it relevant to discussions about muscles not other tissues. I wouldn't be surprised this comes down to rate limiting amino acid, as we've seen strait Glycine supplementation help with many non muscle processes in the body
Are they effective for skin health?
No, callogen supplements have no extra benefit toward your skin.
Red light therapy can help your skin health and increase some collagen
So you can stop right after the statement "we don't know" lol. Seems like it's something you just have to try for several months and see if it does anything for you. Some folks claim it does, others no. Maybe it depends on your body and how much and what type collagen you are taking. Anyways no one currently has the answer of does it actually do anything or not. But at least it seems certain it does no harm.
I don't believe that collagen supplementation helps skin/wrinkles for obvious reason. Specifically, vegetarians eat zero dietary collagen as the only food source is animal product. So if lack of dietary collagen made a difference, then we should be able to easily identify a vegetarian just based on their skin. However, ask any dermatologist if they can tell a vegetarian just by looking at their skin and they can't. That means having zero dietary collagen has no negative impact. As such, I think taking dietary collagen supplementation should have no impact either.
I don´t think the cuestion about collagen was related to exercise... us, women, want to know if it works in our skin, hair and nails, and joints... I think it does... I notice it...
I thought the purpose of ingesting collagen was because your body uses it whole, intact, which was already shown in studies. The way it was discussed here was a bit confusing, as this wasn't already established contextually.
Why is Grant Mitchell on this video?
What is a good whey protein?
Whey protein isolate.
I gained significant muscle mass going from vegan to carnivore diet, with zero exercise.
Good job
How is this relevant to collagen? 🙄
@@TritiuminducedfusionJAI BAJRANGBALI JI KI 🙏
Started taking collegen cause a few weeks I broke my collarbone. Slipped a few days ago and rebroke my collarbone.
It’s all very well eating collagen but there isn’t enough evidence to show that the body is absorbing and directing it to the places you want it to go. Most studies on collagen are carried out by the industry that wants to sell it.
If you want to tackle joint pain the best and cheapest way is exercise.
I took up boxing at 61 and it has considerably reduced my joint pain and increased mobility, but it’s hard work too.
Since american diet generally doesn't include tough connective tissues and skin of the animal, therefore we don't have enough collagen in our diet.
That study that needs to be done is not merely taking collagen after exercise, but rather a study where (say lab rats) are forced to exercise to the point of connective tissue degradation and then given collagen.
This was my experience working as a delivery driver. My joints were hurting so bad constantly and nothing worked until I found collagen.
In my experience, most people are talking about collagen specifically increasing collagen/elasticity in their skin. ie. anti-aging.
So far, from the studies I've come across, good evidence is weak and we need better studies.
Hint: people should be also looking into the synthesis of glutathione from glycine and NAC.
I’ve been taking a reputable collagen supplement since the hair around my crown started to recede. Not only has the hair lost stopped, it’s grown back.
This is what you do. Give it a try for a month. Document what your skin looks like before and after. There's your study.
I do agree it helps the skin. But, don't you think a month is too soon to expect benefits?
I think it was somewhere around 6-8 months that I read somewhere before you will notice any difference, but that was probably put out by the companies selling it.
Type 1 and 3 collagen is essential especially when it's grass fed. Both of my knees and right hip were so bad from age I could hardly walk. I have taken grass fed iso protein for 50 years. I get all my amino acids from brewers yeast and the collagen has rebuilt my cartilage in my knees and hip; my orthopedic doctor showed me e on the X-rays. Believe me I freaked out and now I'm running stadiums and doing 5 miles every morning. I'm 75 years old!!!! COLLAGEN WORKS PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!! 😁🆒👍😎👁️👁️👀
Collagen or time?
@johns.379 How much collagen do you take per day? And how long have you been taking it? My cartilage is shot too and am looking for something to help.
Thumbs up 👍
I think 5 h post exercise is too soon to look for an effect of collagen supplementation.
Does collagen help prevent osteoporosis?
I recently listened to a Dr. Mary Clair Haver podcast where she said collagen with Verisol has been shown to reverse it. Here's one study I found: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8441532/
Dr. Attia: What is the best protein brand?
So taking collagen doesn't make a difference, but he would still do it?
I am suspicious that this popularised anti-aging miracle (collagen) is best from animal sources. Given that animal foods generally cause premature death when compared to a plant based diet. PS. I enjoyed a great lamb steak today.
The only potential downside to collagen supplementation is that anything industrially processed can be high in deuterium. And excess deuterium can harm numerous areas of health, particularly causing mitochondrial dysfunction, and leading to premature aging. The problem is no products on the market, other bottled water, ever informs consumers of their deuterium content. Your collagen powder might be low deuterium or high deuterium, and there is no way for you to know, unless you send it to a lab for testing.
Unfortunately this apply to every single food or supplement in the market. Sadly even in our produce we can’t really know what’s going on a mineral/toxic component levels. That’s why my take on it is variety and moderation with EVERYTHING. Even if I do take collagen (according to the latest studies the peptides version gives the amino acids coming from collagen unique features) I do it intermittently and I always change brand every cycle. But that’s my approach according to my knowledge. Not saying it’s THE WAY.
How is collagen a poor protein if it's the most abundant protein in our bodies? Maybe we should tell that to our bodies
That's like saying bricks are poor construction material for brick houses
"Glycine is the most important simple, nonessential amino acid in humans, animals, and many mammals. It is a precursor of several key metabolites, including, and importantly, glutathione." - Dr. Gundry's book Gut Check, page 58. This talk is about muscle protein synthesis; however, the title of this video is "Are collagen supplements effective and worth taking? I would have to give a resounding "Yes" to that.
I know my skin looks way better when I take collagen. Postmenopausal woman here:) I don't care what they say and "research" they did. Any stats are biased.
What collagen brand do you use and how much?
@Evergreenandmyrtle I buy systemic formulas Inc. ECM (matrix) and MB for muscle build. I do 1 scoop ECM in the morning and 1 scoop MB at night. In my opinion, this is the best brand.
@@Maria_Serbina Thx Maria! :)
If you don’t know the answer you say “I don’t think that matters”? Um, okay.
Shocking how this comment section is filled with anecdotal cases
Seems quite normal that people trust what works for them.
i take vital proteins with my coffee everyday. i do think living a clean lifestyle is even more vital. you can't go out 3 nights a week cocktailing and then say "i'm taking collagen, why isn't it working?" i've done that too.😂😂😂😂😂😂
I take msm instead of collagen
Meat and egg 😊
❤
I don't understand why otherwise health-conscious people fail to regard protein powder as the ultra processed food that it is. It is very easy to habituate to ingest enough high quality protein from food. As an example, on a typical day I will easily obtain about 200g of protein from 4 eggs, an additional 4 yolks, 1 lbs of beef, a mackerel fillet, 1 cup of greek yogurt, couple oz cheese. All these foods are packed with high quality nutrition beyond the protein. Why eat factory produced powder from a can?
Ground up bovine bones hyde ligaments and tendons...yummy!
Said no one ever!
Smoke and a pancake?😅
When i take Collagen i started having joint pains. When i stopped it went away. So for me Collagen supps are a no. If you eat protein you get enough Collagen.
Wasted money. But my hair and nails look great
It sounds like if you consume enough complete protein in your diet you don’t need it
No
And if you exercise as it stimulates collagen production.
But as it was mentioned it can be of value to individuals who have chronic ligament injuries or unable to exercise properly.
How much protein you are mentioning here & what about your arteries, are they all good?
Your cholesterol levels?
They work together, I do my blood tests regularly and my arteries are a little blocked % 25,
So choosing the correct protein, I must be very careful. I'm 69 years of age.
NMN opened one of my blocked "soft calcified arteries around my neck if the Doppler result was corrected at that time🙏
I still believe in the miracle of NMN & Resveratrol in my life.
Wish you all the best 🙏🌹
@@semaaral2498JAI BAJRANGBALI JI KI 🙏
JAI BAJRANGBALI JI KI 🙏
Dang, as a marathon runner I was using collagen and carbs post run. 😭
Someone send this to Vigorous Steve! I'm still taking collagen with my 2.5mg anavar pre workout lol
Collagen supplements definitely work. I take 25g of marine collagen per day and my bad Back has improved considerably, not to mention I now have hair like Sampson
I want that brand name... Please let me know!!! ❤❤❤❤❤